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this is "outnumbered." i am emily compagno it's kayleigh mcenany, and joining us, martha maccallum, anchor of "the story," kennedy, host of "kennedy," i'm fox business, and bill hemmer. also joining us with analysis, fox news senior political analyst, brit hume. law enforcement source tells fox news former president trump is expected to be arraigned on tuesday at 2:15 eastern time. we are told the d.a. initially wanted him to surrender today but that timeline change due to arrangements they needed to be made by secret service. we are also learning that trump will not be handcuffed. the charges are related to hush money payments leading up to the 2016 campaign. they remain under sealed and are not yet public. republicans calling the indictment political persecution and un-american. democrats say no one is above the law. fox news' peter doocy asked president biden what he thought

of the indictment this morning. >> mr. president, do you think the charges against trump are politically motivated. >> emily: let's bring in brit. >> is going to be quite a scene next week in new york i guess that looks to me from the way it's being set up is as if they are trying to keep temperatures down by not having a perp walk to and not having him in handcuffs. it apparently -- going off without a hitch, since it apparently has to go off. >> emily: the concept of bringing the temperature down when the temperature has been inflamed from this to begin with. kayleigh, the sec, doj, prior new york city d.a. and even d.a. alvin bragg himself declined to prosecute. what changed? >> kayleigh:

"the new york times" said, a "new york times" review and interviews with election law experts strongly suggest new york state prosecutors have never before filed an election law case involving a federal campaign. totally unprecedented. you're right, declined to prosecute this on several other occasions on the democrat response is something to behold. republicans remain unified. desantis put out a tweet defending the former president. maybe the only moment of republican unity over the next year. democrats have also been unified in their response and it has been celebratory. that's how i will characterize it. nancy pelosi. "no one is above the law. everyone has a right to a trial to prove innocent." a trial to prove innocence in american justice system that is innocent until proven guilty. jared moscowitz, barbara lee, all of them celebratory with only one measured democrat, mark levin, saying donald trump deserves every protection provided by the constitution.

i think they run the risk of backfiring of sorts if they are so celebratory and something that is "the new york times" puts out is completely unprecedented. >> emily: brit hume, we have you back. >> brit: hello. a couple of thoughts. one is that this reaction by the number of democrats which as you suggest is the most celebratory defending this prosecution which many think is based on the week case with that of course is based on what we know. we don't know everything because we haven't seen the indictment. but it tells you the extent of the loathing of the democratic party of donald trump. they don't just oppose him. they don't just resist him. absolutely flat out hate him. anything that seems to damage him, embarrass them, hurt him in any way is fine with them. never mind whether it's really legitimate or not. that's the atmosphere and that something that republicans looking at this upcoming presidential campaign need to

keep in mind. it's true that donald trump motivates in his favor a very large slice of the republican party, the republican voting base. but he powerfully motivates virtually all of the democrats. people say to me all the time, there is no way joe biden got 81 million votes in 2020. i kind of agree with that. i think donald trump got those votes against him. that's what accounted for biden's wide lead at the end. keep that in mind. >> emily: thank you so much, brit hume. martha, he mentions the atmosphere, the legitimacy. the argument against the backdrop. essentially this was resurrected but then propped up on something that's legally unsound arguably. jurisdictionally unconstitutional and clearly politically motivated so many think galvanized is the base, anything galvanizes republicans,

they should it. >> martha: is interesting to roll back and vague about what the processes. this is a grand jury process, it's not a trial. so the bar is, essentially it is alvin bragg saying to the grand jury, i would like to bring this case and i would like to use the system in new york to do it. do i have enough to do it? all they heard was his side. you know all of this. i don't want to tell you. all they heard was his side of it so now he has gotten them to go there with him right and not what you're going to get is a cascade from everyone i have talked to this morning of motions, legal pushes to try to drag this thing out over a long period of time and who knows where this goes from here. today and tuesday are the big high drama moments. politically in this stage of the game. after that you're going to see a long drawn-out process plus you have all these other investigations going on.

january 6, classified documents, georgia case, when does it play out? over a long period of time at the decisions of judges, everything that happened during debates, town halls, all of the process of this political plan that plays out over the course of 2024. buckle your seat belts, folks. how do you play this if you're one of the other republican candidates who wants to be the nominee? how much can people stomach overtime? we have already learned that were donald trump is concerned, people can stomach a heck of a lot. the bar for tolerance and huge support that he's being falsely accused and these things, it's a huge generator of enthusiasm. politically when you look at this in the backdrop of everything that's about to happen, it's going to be quite an interesting roller coaster ride. >> emily: i think democrats, the crowing, the getting this,

the puppetry. they are saying that the damage has been done but for trump's camp, yes, the damage has been done and that will result politically likely in a groundswell they probably didn't anticipate. >> bill: we have the bronx zoo a couple miles this way and the manhattan zoo a couple miles this way. it's going to be a mess down there. the thing about american history, a former president walking in there, we know that he won't be handcuffed. he will have a mug shot. that will be carried for some time, actually forever, when you think about it. speaking with a gentleman who is highly connected to the legal world in manhattan and to go off to this question, kayleigh, that you posed. what changed within alvin bragg? what happened? he campaigns that he sued trump hundreds of times, it's on camera. it's on video.

but he walks into office more than a year ago and says i'm not going after this case and two of his leading prosecutors resigned in one of them writes a book. that is stirring. this particular gentleman who i spoke to brad at the trump organization which was found guilty, january 13, 2023 of this year. look at the time frame. these are all theories and everyone's talking about theories. this is over a period of 12 months. what changed with alvin bragg? you had a $1.6 million fine levied against the trump organization from this jury. so bragg, may be. that's when the grand jury is seated, mid-january, through february, through march, we thought yesterday this thing was going to be punted until the end of april. it wasn't. what changed in alvin bragg's world? it might have been the ease by which he got a conviction through manhattan jury.

eight: one for democrats. that was his theory and he's well-connected and that's as good as he can come up with in terms of the explanation. >> it's fascinating. you have to wonder if his defense team is going to ask for a change of venue because there is so much spite and manhattan. it is so overwhelmingly blue. this is a highly political case. there is no doubt about that. the interesting thing for me, where do we go from here politically? you have pointed this out, this really does galvanize republicans. even if trump isn't the nominee, the fact that everyone who is a potential presidential candidate is lining up behind him saying, this is wrong. this doesn't feel right. they are not personally attacking him. they have learned those lessons and they know they have to get everybody together. this is a slam-dunk for republicans here in terms of the presidential election in 2024.

is a former president going to be so distracted with all of these various cases that he is not quite have time to run for president? maybe. but then he will be the ultimate martyr. >> kayleigh: i have a question about new york penal law. penal law 2.15.7. the person is guilty of unlawful grand jury disclosure. intentionally disclosing the nature of grand jury proceedings. i would hope he is looking into that. i am doubtful that it would be a violation, you would know better than i. >> emily: the irony, that's a felony. it has a greater penalty that is considered a margrave crime than that which is facing president trump right now whicha misdemeanor. i live in this town. if this is alvin bragg's

justice. yesterday monster that murdered and stayed -- the monster was free. he was out even though he had four open cases inc. gluing a brutal beating on assembly. the violent serial rapist. he had two violent players. that is alvin bragg's form of justice. to me this is an absolute travesty. it's the most despicable use of our tax dollars and the use of an elected official that is supposed to represent the people. the people versus donald trump, absolutely not. it seems like it's the district attorney versus the people here and i am ashamed. coming up, i'm an american journalist detained in russia for the first time since the cold war. white house and the colleagues

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>> russian security service detaining an american journalist from "the wall street journal." evan gershkovich is the first american journalist detained in russia since the cold war. he can face up to 20 years in a russian prison if convicted on charges. russian authorities that he's suspected of espionage. they claim he collected information about the activities of one of the enterprises of the russian military industrial complex. "the wall street journal" condemning his --

"the wall street journal" vehemently denies the allegations from the fsb and seeks the immediate release of our trusted and dedicated reporter, evan gershkovich. we stand in solidarity with evan and his family. the white house with this. >> targeting of american citizens by russian government is unacceptable. we condemn the detention of mr. gershkovich in the strongest, the strongest terms. we also condemned the russian government's continued targeting and repression of journalists. >> kayleigh: martha, the last time this happened was 1986. it's been quite some time and it's pretty brazen. >> martha: during the cold war, i thought it was a little interesting that in that press pu briefing, they kept pressing the point that this happens all the time and we see different examples of the building held that the holding of an american journalist, as you pointed out, has not happened in a very long time.

obviously we are in a unique moment with russia hundreds of what happening with ukraine. i think it's good that antony blinken came forward and said they seek immediate support to get in touch with him and give him the support he needs. i hope that will be immediately granted. i thought president biden's language was stronger than what we heard yesterday afternoon brother was a little bit of "well, we are not sure if he is illegally detained or not," the language was a little fuzzy. that he has said he must be returned which is exactly the kind of language we need. mike pence made a good point saying we should start to expel russian diplomats because that sort of the kind of response that you might expect in the situation. it's extremely serious, extremely serious to take an american journalist. they are saying they are going to hold him until may 29 and then they will have some sort of trial. we have seen it happen in china. people get expelled quickly, kicked out of the country, which

i think this young man would prefer. he has lived there for six years and his parents are of russian birth. he felt comfortable, may be too comfortable there. a lot of people have left but we have to be able to cover this war and cover russia and all of these instances. very, very serious situation. he must be returned immediately. >> kayleigh: evan's last headline was "russia's economy is starting to come undone." that seems to be what putin was going after. >> bill: i agree with you entirely. off of martha's comments, that's exactly what's happening. putin has been so ruthless to journalists and reporters and voices of dissent, look what he's done to his own political enemies. i think the guts this reporter from "the wall street journal" showed to try to continue to report from inside russia during a time of war. kudos to the guts he showed to try to continue to report a story on the other side of the

front lines. very brave. i think the white house, based on what we have heard so far, has to come out with much stronger language publicly about his case. >> kayleigh: and actions. to the point of the former vice president. this headline from a guardian kind of puts you in the space of what russian media is like. to defeat putin we must support the brave russian journalist. evan was an american journalist. but telling the truth. there is another critical confrontation which the kremlin has superiority that must be challenged. the information war and he goes on to write that it's essentially worse than the soviet era media. russians are only hearing one side of the story. it was brave individuals like the american reporter, evan, and the russian independent journalists. >> emily: every human life is valued equally but when it's in journalist, to your point, whose sole purpose is to serve as lighthouses to transmit

information that is the difference between freedom and oppression that's so vital to the concept of what this country stands for. it's antithetical to russia is standing for right now. and yes, putin is acting like a desperate, caged animal because he is and the reason he feels emboldened to do so is because the weakness on the dearth of leadership exhibited by this administration. what else to be learned? he learned if i pluck a basketball player, i will get in exchange the merchant of death so who is to blame him for trying the same tactic again. i am reminded me ''descent '90s, the cartels and the stronghold they had in central and south america. a federal agent was" killed and reagan close the border for one hour and that worked. action works. i don't want to hear about another merchant of death being exchanged. i want them to be brought home safely.

along with paul whelen. >> kayleigh: how much of it has to do with american leadership? >> martha: i thought antony blinken should resign. i thought that after the botched afghanistan withdrawal. the way that american allies were left to die and fend for themselves in that country. to your point, which i think is really important point, americans are not risk in places where their authoritarian governments like russia. when you do those toward oaks waltz, you put a higher bounty on american heads and it is absolutely acceptable that regimes like this are holding american journalists hostage and we have to know forcefully with this leadership that there's competence and confidence that they have the resolve to do what it takes to kick those diplomats out of this country, surely a sign of strength here and stand up for journalist. they cannot be compromised. they cannot be detained. it's totally acceptable.

russia is the anna del v of international community. they are trying to seem rich. it's hous a house of cards. people in russia may not hear that story but they are living in an suffering. >> kayleigh: days after a transgender shooter murdered seven christians in that tragic school shooting at the covenant school, whereas press secretary says the trans community is under attack. ok i did it. is he looking at my hairline? is plaque psoriasis making you rethink your everyday choices? otezla is a pill, not a cream or injection that can help people with plaque psoriasis achieve clearer skin. and no routine blood tests required. don't use otezla if you're allergic to it.

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>> kayleigh: going to break we said there were seven victims killed of the covenant school. want to be exceedingly killed here. there were six christians were victims of that shooting in one murder. the biden administration is facing backlash over the

white house press secretary's comment saying that the transgender community is under attack. >> we are seeing more and more of these hateful, hateful bills. people don't want their freedoms to be taken. they want us to fight for their freedoms. it was shameful. it is disturbing. our hearts go out to the trans community as they are under attack right now. but this is a president who has said many times before he asked their backs. >> kayleigh: the audacity of the white house to choose this is their moment to make that statement is really something, emily. as i mentioned going to break, there were six victims. there were protesters at the tennessee capital putting up seven fingers saying seven victims. there were six. >> emily: we will never get that acknowledgment from this white house or this administration. karine jean-pierre says we want to fight for people's freedoms. yes, our freedoms, christian freedoms, that's the purpose of

the bills, to increase and protect freedom from this overbearing, overreaching government. it has nothing to do with anti-or hate no matter what kind of sound bites they try to craft for their small minded narrative crafting brains. it's mind-boggling that the mainstream media immediately accuse the governor and the state leadership in tennessee of sharing burdens and sharing responsibility for this evil, brutal persecution of six christians. it's being touted as a christian persecution complex rather than christian religious persecution. it's like we talked about yesterday. if somebody had left wing views and it's the right wing policies that are to blame whenever there is something like this murder. for those people lifting up seven fingers, they are missing the point to the detriment of millions of christians that find themselves at the end of a target. it is horrifying. >> kayleigh: i don't know how chyron's in the vetting process works at msnbc but let this sink

in. these are the words. transgender shooting suspect sparks outrage on the right. shouldn't a shooter of three children, three adults park outrage on the left as well? >> kennedy: we should all be outraged. someone like this targeted children. just because there were three victims and there weren't 19 it doesn't make it any less tragic. how upside down army, how backwards are we in this country when we are not thinking of those families. not thinking of those children and the horror and what they went through and the incredibly brave police officers. who didn't stand outside. they went right inside. it didn't matter if it was a woman with a gun. it was a murderous person that they sent to hell because of their bravery. i don't think the fact that she was trans had anything to do with this. the fact that she's a woman is much more interesting because we don't see that happening but it

just goes to show you there's no box that's mostly apathy for ten where people find it so easy to take human life. we have to think about it and it's okay, the pulse nightclub in orlando, yes, that's when you talk about the victims in the gay community that was directly targeted in a mass shooting. that was horrific. think about the kids, the christian children and their families, they are the victims. >> kayleigh: no doubt. well said. bill, i'm interested in marsha blackburn's proposal. $900 million to schools to allow them to hire retired law enforcement. marsha blackburn put up this yesterday. earlier this week i spoke to joe biden after the senseless tragedy in nashville and i introduced legislation to provide 900 million for school safety. it's clear this white house has no interest in protecting our kids. they just want to make this about politics. why is the white house so immovable? >> bill: hundreds of millions

of guns in this country, hundreds of millions of people. it's an interesting idea. it was grant money for any school that wanted to hire a resource officer on their campus. she's right. it's going nowhere under this administration. here's what i keep coming back to. this happened on monday. on monday afternoon we were told by the police in nashville that there was a ton of evidence left behind as to why she acted the way she did. it's friday afternoon and we have seen very little of that evidence and i would ask why. where was the manifesto? why have we not been told? >> martha: it is disturbing that we haven't been told what's in the manifesto. we've heard this is a targeted attack at a christian school of the six innocent individuals. they are the victims in the story. this is not about whatever led this killer to take the lives of these people. it has never been about that

history. now we are at this point and we are going, what led to it? why did the person feel that way? maybe to examine for one reason, to keep other people alive and if there were situations where this person should have been detected by their family, were their eyes open enough? do they share any of the larger blame of not reaching out to them and saying look, what is going on? should we be making sure that you have the right medicine. that you do not have a weapon. those laws are already on the books in tennessee. if you are, they call it mentally deficient, save whatever you like about that term but the reason is that if anyone in your life can prove that you are a danger to herself or others that can make it impossible for you or nearly impossible for you to go into and legally buy and gone. those laws exist at the federal level and tennessee. that's what people should be yelling about. her background, it's about these

children and it's about this killer who took their lives. >> kayleigh: a celebration of life for everyone. we think about those families this weekend. these children are in your future, not in your past. coming up, new guidance from the world health organization, a little too late. the agency changing its tune and saying kids may not need a coat saying kids may not need a coat that's next. nses. and the fastest way to do that? pay off your debts and high rate credit cards with a lower payment newday home loan. that can save you hundreds of dollars every month. plus, this newday 100 va loan lets you borrow up to 100% of your home's value so you can put even more cash in the bank during these uncertain times. out here, you're more than just a landowner.

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a revised road map for covid vaccination. the updated guidance teams healthy kids between six months and 17 years old a low priority. kennedy, let me start with you, your thoughts about this w.h.o. guidance and the fact that some places, public schools, are not following it. they are great in their own guidelines that aren't merited based on this. >> kennedy: how can you follow the science if you're wearing a blindfold? kids are still being held hostage in a number of ways. this is a political problem. this is about virtue signaling. it's not about health. kids were never the ones who were contracting and spreading covid. they just weren't. they were not good vectors for the virus, thank god. stop treating them like they are sickly petri dishes who are going to infect everybody. it's 2023. it is not march of 2020. we have to stop acting like it. >> martha: they are

acknowledging that having covid is like having a vaccine so if you've had covid and you had a couple shots, we all know people who have had every shot and they are still getting covid. isn't it may be, aren't we sort of at the point where individuals may be their doctor ought to decide what is best for them? >> emily: you would think that i can figure out which is more frightening. the potential physical effects of the pandora's box or the fact that we still live in apparently a dystopian administration that refuses to recognize that. beholden to the teachers union. treating children like the vectors, it's horrifying. i can't imagine being a parent and having to have is your greatest challenges and greatest barriers be the government that's assured us we act like a better parent than you do. we know children have not only lost all that learning time kept home with their mental health ramifications. at least four medical bodies

including the cdc that a declared national states of emergency is because of children's mental health, being home from the pandemic, the effects of covid. you think that at a minimum we would be treated to the truth. i'm not holding my breath. >> martha: bill knows because we have talked about it a lot on your show. this is the thing that really gets me fired up. we have kids who are so far behind. you know it stresses children out? when they think they can't keep up. when they know other people can read and do math that that it can't do. it's in a normal environment and that you have all these kids and we are pretending like they are okay. we are pushing them ahead to the next grade and i keep wondering. dr. joe biden is an educator. he would be a perfect match for the first lady of the united states to say i'm national program, catch up our kids, this summer you can go to school for six weeks, you can get caught up. i can't understand why no one talks about this?

>> bill: you -- >> martha: have yelled about this before on your show. >> bill: i would say. i don't disagree. i also think there's a perfect match for her on the fontanelle and kids in america and that crisis. it hasn't happened yet. if i were a parent in washington, d.c., what i want to send my kid to school in the year 2023? that's when it's enacted? after the world health organization guide, we learn more and more about covid and the vaccine and how it affects different age groups. does it affect kids? they are largely safe. we need to recognize that and say we at least know this much about it. i would predict there will be a lawsuit in washington, d.c., before the start of school next year. if that happens, that means this vaccination requirements and our nation's capital will be. >> martha: requirements falling by the wayside. how many law enforcement, how many firemen we have lost how

many members of the military we have lost and they are still trying to push this on kids in school. >> kayleigh: it's unbelievable. the sad truth and the pandemic is that america's children came last. we have data that kids were not affected by covid-19 in the same way as adults and while we pushed for schools to stay open, they were enclosed nonetheless in several blue states. it wasn't just the learning loss. kids who depend on schools for school lunches. it was abuse reporting which happens mostly in schools. we saw abuse admissions going up in some jurisdictions. the reporting was going down. it's irreparable damage. we can ever make this up to america's kids and it's a real shame. >> emily: remember that in chicago they mayoral runoff election, whoever becomes mayor presides over the union, the teachers union contract and i wonder how many unions will rise up and say we require vaccinations regardless of what

they w.h.o. recommends. >> bill: which is the reverse of what i am predicting. >> martha: coming up, elon musk calling for a six-month positive element of artificial intelligence systems as he and other experts: dangerous, unpredictable. once it is that they could wipe out civilization. that's their words, not mine. we'll be right back but no billionaire should be paying a lower tax rate than a schoolteacher or a firefighter. i mean it! think about it. >> think about it.

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>> what do other candidates think of the trump indictment? what needs to happen to get "wall street journal" reporter evan gershkovich release. more trouble on the northern border with six bodies found in a swamp. we also have larry kudlow. u tenant governor winsome sears' here, on the left, attacking conservatives on university campuses. >> kennedy: welcome back. tech leaders sending a stark warning on the dangers of artificial intelligence. elon musk and other innovators have signed an open letter

calling for a pause on ai experience. the letter reads "ai systems with human competitive intelligence can pose profound risks to society and humanity. we call on all lie labs to me daily pause for at least six months. the training of ai systems more powerful than gpt 4." is that necessary, bill hemmer? >> bill: i don't think we have reached the horizon yet but i think the point of no return is already here. i don't know what happens. i don't know if this becomes. i don't know how it helps us. i do know how it hurts us. i know what george orwell wrote about. we saw what how did on the door outside this patient. my feeling today is whatever

musk and the physicists who signed that letter, whatever concerns they have will not be heated because microsoft is not on board. google is not on board. meta/facebook is not on board. as long as they are doing whatever they are creating, whichever science projects they're working on, this is going to happen. maybe this is the first shot fired to try to slow things down. i think you going to have to get more if you are that concerned about it. ruining all of our lives. what did the experts say, destroying us? >> kennedy: not all of them. >> bill: i'm going to pump the brakes on that thought and learn as much as i can about ai until then. it's a fascinating world. maybe there's a benefit and maybe there's not. >> kennedy: emily, i don't think six months is going to do anything because it's been yours

and decades in the making. >> emily: i agree that we are beyond the point of no return. whenever we are learning from elon musk and those that are communicating with us, that is the tip of the iceberg. it's all we will learn because i'm sure there's a lot of nefarious entities that have control and development right now. i agree that there are benefits. potentially medical benefits on scientific benefits but major privacy concerns. major ethical concerns. would you rather have the human factor be the scaffolding to ai or would you rather have aib the scaffolding to human error? to me i would choose the ones where the humans are in charge. >> bill: you may not have your choice. >> kennedy: i think it could be exciting. medical technologies could be very groundbreaking. it's always a slippery slope but do you trust human beings are

good enough to control themselves from evil aims? >> martha: no. i had a conversation with brian kilmeade and tristen harris, the guy featured in "the social dilemma" which raised some of the serious concerns about how damaging a dangerous social medias for children we can no longer turn our backs on that. we know what danger it is. we know children should not have access to social media. it is a negative for them. he was screaming this from the rooftops. now he's got his hair on fire on this issue. he said people have no idea the kinds of realities that can be created by ai. for example, let's say that china wants to attack taiwan and i am putting big brackets around this. and imagine scenario. they want to convince everyone that taiwanese forces shot down their plane and that's why they

went in. they can spread this message in such an uncontrollable way that no one is aware of what reality is and what it isn't. did that happen or didn't it happen? there is video, images, people on social media say that it happened, that they witnessed it and saw it and it cannot be created. people are in a situation where they literally don't know what is real and what is not. it's interesting because if we are in a computer simulation, we will find out more quickly. >> kayleigh: this reminds me of the flaws in the paris climate accord. the u.s. stops emitting that china keeps recklessly emitting. we stopped ai, china, russia, they are not stopping. >> kennedy: and american ai is the best ai. let's keep it going. more "outnumbered" or just a moment.

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don't hesitate. ask your doctor about otezla today. ♪♪ >> last but not least, one of our colleagues is calling it a career. 96-year-old mario has spent more than 70 years in the news industry, including two decades with fox news. many here fondly refer to mario as the rome bureau chief and now retiring. he has spent the bulk working in danger zones, the world war ii veteran and bronze star recipient has also met with john f. kennedy, fidel castro, pope john paul ii and more. he plans to write a book about his adventure, and believe me, plenty to fill the pages. mario congratulations on an amazing career.

>> mila grazi, very good. think about the time in rome, john paul ii giving way to benedict, two living popes at the same time. >> and greg palkot said mario taught him everything he knew, he taught me about tv and taught him very well. one of our best. >> absolutely amazing. thanks to everyone. here is "america reports." >> russia as they are detaining the wall street journal reporter. >> let him go. >> sandra: fox news alert, president biden demanding the release of the wall street journal evan gershkovich after he was detained in russia on espionage charges. strongly denying the accusation. >> john: arrest by putin's