♪ ♪ howard: journalists love leaks. i've published hundreds of them myself. but some also like to investigate leaks especially in high profile cases. before the fbi arrested 21-year-old jack teixeira in a massive leak of u.s. intelligence, "the washington post" and then "the new york times" got there first. the the post spoke to a friend in the online chat room where the defendant is charged with posting a classified information mainly about the ukraine war and said teixeira had no ideological agenda. >> i don't think that there was

a goal nor some sort of accomplishment that he was looking for in sharing these documents. of course, there's some anti-government sentiment. howard: it's a dilemma, why would journalists blow the whistle on a leaker disclosing classified secrets, which is a crime, when they'd eagerly accept such material which is not a crime? if the media agree with an i agenda such as when daniel ellsberg leaked the pentagon papers, they turned him into a hero. one crucial difference here, the top secret material wasn't given to a news outlet which could be held accountable, but mosted -- posted on social media where anyone could see it. so who, exactly, is responsible? more on this ahead with veteran national security reporter glenn greenwald. i'm howard kurtz and this is "mediabuzz." ♪ ♪ howard: ron desan us the just signed a 6-week ban on abortion in florida tweeting out a single

picture after 11:00 at night. the governor's quiet move came as a ruling by a federal judge in texas again put the difficult issue under a sering media spotlight. judge matthew kazmarak, a trump appointee, froze the approval of the abortion pill despite the fact the fda okayed it as safe 23 years ago. the supreme court granted the biden administration is stay of a few days. but what's striking is that democratic congresswoman alexandria ocasio-cortez later joined by republican congresswomanman i city mace -- nancy mace had said the biden team should just blow off the lower court ruling. >> that's a pretty stunning position, if you think about it, about the notion of just ignoring a judge ooh's position. >> i believe that the biden administration should ignore this ruling. >> i agree with ignoring it. at this point this is an issue

that republicans have been largely on the wrong side of. >> you can't find a single democrat on the campaign trail in 2024 or in 2022 that will issue a single restriction on abortion. so republicans have allowed democrats to define them -- >> today's republican party is firmly entrenched in the delusions of its extremist fringe base fanning the flames of the culture wars and acting unbelievably punitive and unsafe bans on abortion. >> but when the media mob isn't crying racism, they're obsessing over their faith topic, and -- favorite topic, and that is they want abortion to be front and center even though every state now will get to the make that decision on their own if you believe in federalism. howard: joining us now to the analyze the coverage in new york, rich lowry, editor-in-chief of national review, and here in washington, lucy caldwell, political analyst working with mockingbird lab. rich, let's start with aoc

saying western just ignore a lower -- we should just ignore a lower court ruling that she didn't like. hardly any media criticism for a stance that if everybody did it, we'd blow off the court system. >> it's not just aoc though. the biden administration has been doing everything they can to distort the regulatory process to try to undermine democratically-passed abortion restrictions many if red states as part of a grotesque pattern of lawlessness in terms of executive actions in the biden administration that makes barely a ripple in the media. if a republican did one or two of the things he's done, it'd be a crisis of the rule of law, crisis of democracy, and you almost hear nothing about it. howard: so you don't the think that the biden administration is going through the court system on this? >> well, yeah, they are -- they're not defying the court ruling, but they're defying federal law, and they played with regulatory process in terms of fda rules regarding the abortion pill explicitly to the

try to undermine laws passed democratically by legislatures, signed by governors in red states that joe biden and the press happen not to like. howard: lucy, briefly on the aoc sans on this, she says, well, the trump administration ignored such and such a court order, and that may be true. but if everybody plays this game, doesn't it undermine confidence in the court system? >> yeah, of course it would. but this is a little bit complicated because on the same day that that texas judge came down with that ruling, there was an almost completely counterruling to come down the in the pacific northwest. howard: yes. >> it is the complicated. we are going to see scotus weigh in on this. i think some of this is a distraction because of the sense that republicans are kind of the dogs who caught the car on this issue, and it is not -- howard: meaning that for decades they have wanted to knock down a national, you know, roe v. wade -- >> that's right, that's right, that's right. and democrats have not been great either because also in the post-roe era, democrats really didn't do anything to codify into law.

in the wake of cobs though, you can -- dobbs though, you can see part of what's happening in the media narrative is that republicans are not leaning into the things that used to be their strength. there was a hearing last summer where josh hawley was interacting with some pro-abortion advocates, and he really got them up against the ropes. they would not say they would not support partial birth abortion, and there was this moment where i thought this is going to be a cast the for democrats because most -- a disaster for most democrats. but republicans are pushing for things like bans at six weeks, seven weeks. this isn't a distortion, this is just republicans being out of step with what most americans want. howard: rich, isn't it fair for the media to challenge a ruling by a trump judge in amarillo with a history of opposition to abortion blocking if fda approval of these abortion pills? and i understand how the debate has shifted to this kind of medication when it was declared to be safe 23 years ago, and we haven't seen a lot of people getting sick taking medication.

>> yeah. there are statute of limitations issues, i think most of that ruling is not going to hold up. but look, as long as i've paid attention to national politics, the media every time republicans lose, it's always been about social issues and abortion, supposedly. and the narrative has been false for 30 years. now there's some truth to it. in certain places, in certain circumstances abortion obviously has hurt republicans. but the media narrative is exaggerated. they portray it as if it's some sort of magic bullet for democrats everywhere, and it's just not. a six-week ban that's supposely extreme? georgia passed one, ohio passed one, iowa passed one, and all those governors won handily. brian kemp in georgia handily defeated a media darling in stacey abrams who made a huge issue of abortion in that race, and it didn't avail her anything. so i think the narrative, there's some truth to it, but it's clearly exaggerated as well. howard: lucy, with governor

desantis signing a six-week ban, he had signed a 15 is-week ban which at the time obviously upset a lot of people, but now six weeks. but then he doesn't talk about it, he does it, you know, late at night. he spoke next day at liberty university and didn't even mention it. so do you think that that move is sort of aimed at a certain potential audience of voters? >> well, the alternative for ron desantis was to e veto that bill, right? and that would have been a complete non-starter -- howard: but i think he helped push it through the legislature. >> right. he's doing it quietly because he's contemplating how to have a role on the national stage. a 6-week ban is extreme. to anyone who's ever menstruate- howard: because a lot of women don't realize they're pregnant. >> often. but in the case of desantis the, yes, he's being quiet about it because he knows this is an extreme position that most people don't hold. even many republicans want abortion to be legal and accessible in most cases. and six weeks is very early on in a pregnancy.

ron desantis is trying to weave a path with where he both doesn't upset the republican base and republican state lawmakers in florida but also doesn't draw attention to a policy that he himself would know is polarizing. howard: he's clearly going to run for president, and he's clearly trying to appeal to republican primary voters, but it's not like the rest of us are going to find out about. >> i don't think he thinks no one's going to know about it. [laughter] and in the equation, he is gin win and sincerely proof life. it depends on state. some states these kind of bans are completely fine and popular. others, you know, they're contested, others they can't fly. howard: well, let's look at the broader battlefield. you write, rich, that republicas terrifying republicans, that was headline. most have stayed quiet since the lower court judge issued that ruling which is now temporarily on hold against abortion pills, and you say that republicans can't seem to figure out how to neutralize democrats' advantage

on this issue. >> yeah. i mean, they only had 50 years to prepare for roe being overturned, and they didn't think about this seriously enough. so their initial reaction was confusion and fear, and it's still confusion and fear today. and that's just not a path forward. they will be defined if they just try to kick and cover, so lucy mentioned that josh haul -- hawley exchange. the democrat position is extreme on abortion, and part of the republican pushback has to be highlighting that, making case for it, trying to force media to acknowledge it. in certain occasions and certain senate races last year, that did happen. but if you just try to hide urn your desk, it's t not going to work. howard: lucy, rich says democratic position on abortion is extreme. i guess you're going to disagree with that, but at the same time the, wouldn't you say that the coverage tilts a certain way because most journalists are pro-choice? >> yes, i do want to disagree because i don't think the democratic position on abortion is extreme.

supposed late-term abortion, that can accounteds for 1% of abortions, and that is risk to the mother, you know, the pregnancy's not going on the viable, other terrible things going wrong. howard: as for the media -- [laughter] mostly being pro-choice? >> of course the media's mostly pro-choice. so is america. is the general population, and we have seen in the year-over-year or tracking, roe was appealed people did not want to be the -- repealed, did not want to outlaw abortion. so we are now, as rich says, we're operating in a different paradigm now. and i think that the pro-choice sentiment of the media actually not to the same extent, but does reflect the way most americans really feel, and that's what we're seeing here. >> it's true that most people want abortion to be legal, but most people want restrictions on abortions. >> yes -- sure. >> most democrats, you will not get them to arctic rate any reason that it should be restricted. that is the extremism.

>> agreed. howard: you two are agreeing on something? [laughter] you caught me off guard here. what about letting the states decide? that was the supreme court's whole rationale for knocking down roe v. wade, and now you have -- i've got about half a minute -- you've got activists on both sides trying to make abortion legal or completely ban it in the united states. >> yeah. i may be an ex-republican, but i still love federalism, and i actually look forward to abortion being an activating issue for people, and i hope they start paying attention to their state lawmakers and their positions. i agree, if we can get this, you know, working through state legislature ors, that is a great outcome for all americans. howard: yeah. well, a whole lot of republicans are ducking the specifics when journalists ask about this, but it's the an emotional and moral issue for so many people. when we come back, did republicans or was it the media that turned two expelled tennessee lawmakers into national star is stars?e, if - - stars? hav

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howard: the two black democrats in the tennessee legislature who were expelled by the republican majority for breaking house rules have been temporarily reinstated by their local councils. justin jones and justin pearson led a protest for gun control complete with bull horn, and the media, well, could not get enough of these two lawmakers. >> they've been lionized as tennessee three, but it turns out that not only are they racist, but they're building their political profiles on the backs of dead children. >> the particular ploy by the legislature was so egregious, a republican supermajority wielding its power to remove two democratically-elected lawmakers on trivial charges, that it got national attention and backfired. >> you cannot lead a group of

protesters through state capitol with a bullhorn way these eau particular people did. they may have entered the capitol legally, but their actions on the floor clearly created a volatile, potentially dangerous situation. >> what was it like to walk back on the house floor and speak in front of other members, you know, look right at those who had voted you out? >> service almost, it was very emotional. >> were you planning the event on the floor? >> no. i think what happened was people in our community were being silenced. howard: rich lowry, when these two tennessee democrats were expelled, they were on show after show after show on cnn and msnbc which also carried live for some hours their reinstatement by their local councils with barely a hint they might have done anything wrong. >> yeah. we've heard for years after january 6th the worst thing you

can do the race concern disrupt workings of a legislature. they weren't throwing trash cans or burning the place down, but they did disrupt the legislature with this guy -- these guys egging them on with a bullhorn from the well of the house hawaii's a major act of disrespect for the institution, for their colleagues, it violates their rules, and some censure was appropriate. i think expelling them was dumb, it was going to the backfire, and it did. but the media has barely mentioned, you know, that this is what they did, and there was a reason they got expelled. they just weren't expelled because they were young african-american men, they were expelled because they violated the rules in this flagrant way. howard: lucy, i understand it's an appealing storyline, casting them as underdogs, casting their opponents as racist, but didn't justin jones and justin pearson break the rules by taking over the house floor? >> yes, they did. they did break the rules. and if this is one of the problems with this modern era in

which any person including a freshman state legislator can catapult to national fame by going viral. there is a real problem with the pact that going viral is, there's an incentive to go viral. that is the opposite of powerful policy making, that is the opposite of sort of conducting the business of legislating. so, yes, they did break the rules. i agree with rich that the optics of what republicans did many in turn was really stupid, but, yeah, it can not be denied that they did break the rules. howard: i think you touched on this earlier, rich, but if there had been a end censure or reprimand, at the national level it would have been a one-day story, but the media have certainly provided a giant megaphone and kept this story going day after day after day, and now everybody knows names of the two justins. >> there's another thing. justin jones, you know, the media was obsessed with these guys for at least a full -- maybe, maybe more, great heroes, and and i had to learn from witter and from conservative

media that justin jones during the blm protests and riots was jumping on top of a police car and assaulted a driver with a traffic cone, right? that would have been relevant, right? if he's such an important guy and he's the future of tennessee. but the legacy media didn't cover that, didn't uneverett it. and, again -- unearth it. and again, if it had been a right-wing protester who, you know, people, conservatives we were holding up as a hero and he had engaged in some sort of violent protest in the recent past, just two or three years a ago, that would have destroyed his credibility for the media. he would have been the villain of the piece, not the hero, but because he's a progressive, hose rules don't apply. howard: lucy, is it also because it was a gun control protest in the wake of that horrible nashville school shooting? >> that's possible. i think that some of the backlash with right-wing media has not helped. i i think that some of the coverage including by people like laura ingraham has actually

catapulted these people to more fame because of touching on their background or they speak differently or wear different clothes at different times. that only helps to build their profiles. but i actually think that there are no winners in this story because i think that, i think most people have forgotten what precipitated this which was that they were on the house floor creating a peaceful proest the around the issue of gun control. protest. and that the has been complete wily lost. so in terms of any kind of policy making win or any kind of highlight on an issue, i don't think that anyone -- no one's even talking about the shooting that happened just two and a half weeks ago in that state because we are so distracted by the spectacle of these two sides of the tennessee legislature going at each other and the proxy battle playing out nationally. howard: rich, the fact that gun control was at the heart of this and that school shooting in nashville was just heartbreaking, do you think that also added to the media embrace because it's no secret that many journalists, if not most, favor

some additional gun control in the wake of all these mass shootings? >> that's definitely true. but i also think in this terrible, horrific, god awful shooting in tennessee, you had a trans shooter carrying out a massacre at a christian school. for the media that obsesses with narratives, that's not a their i they want to promote, not a narrative they want to delve into. a their iftive they really love is young african-american men supposedly being disenfranchised s. so the shooting itself disappears relatively quickly, and we have more of an obsession with these guys which, again, to me, makeses it even more outrageous. howard: right. rich lowry, lucy caldwell, thanks very much. ahead, glenn greenwald on why news outlets are trying to find the leaker of that massive down load. ♪ ♪

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howard: the trial in the high profile dominion voting systems lawsuit are against fox begins tomorrow in delaware, and let's face it, much of the mainstream media is rather openly rooting for pox to lose. i can assure you that i will provide fair and down the middle coverage of this $1.6 billion suit about coverage of false election fraud claims in 2020 the despite pact that i work here. and with that that, it's been a very rough week for fox. judge everything davis imposed a sanction on the network, said he to would likely start an investigation of whether its legal team withheld evidence and would very likely name a special master to the handle that probe. one part of dominion's objection, that fox didn't disclose that rupert murdoch has two titles, chairman of fox corporation and executive chairman at fox news. that one basically an honorary tighten. but after the judge expressed unhappiness with the situation, fox apologized for what it called a misunderstanding. but here's the important part, the part that prompted the judge

to the question whether fox withheld material and to say that chin onwill be able -- dominion had been able to take more depositions with fox making people available and footing the bill. a now-fired fox producer for maria bart row mow who has filed a separate -- said she had audio recordings of maria bartiromo interviewing rudy giuliani and sidney powell to. the network didn't even know about these tapes until march 20th then accessed grossberg's phone and provided them within 15 days. two of the recordings were leaked to msnbc and, one of them where maria asked about proof for some fraud accusations that giuliani was making saying what about the software, this chin onsoftware, he hesitated saying haas a little harder. now, that's not all. in other pretrial rulings, judge davis undercut part of fox's defense. the judge said fox cannot argue

that it carried false allegations of election fraud by trump allies because they were newsworthy the, judge davis said just because something is newsworthy doesn't mean if you can defame someone. fox also contends that other network hosts and guests told viewers there was no convincing evidence that the election had been rigged, but the judge said you can't absolve yourself of defamation merely by putting somebody on at another time to say something different. but the judge said dominion cannot if bring up january 6th except in the most marrow circumstances because the capitol riot is not part of the trial. a fox statement says chin on's lawsuit is a political crusade in search of a financial windfall, but the real cost would be cherished first amendment rights. while dominion has pushed irrelevant and misleading information to generate headlines, fox news remains steadfast this protecting the rights of a free press. given a verdict for dominion and its private equity owners would have grave consequences for the entire journalism profession.

the case may well turn on the jury's view whether fox acted with actual malice. generally a very high bar for plaintiffs until now. i'm leaving after the show and will cover the beginning of the trial from wilmington. with "wall street journal" reporter evan gershkovich still held by russia on bogus espionage charges, a sign of hope. a deputy foreign minister saying there could be a prisoner swap for the journalist through a working channel that's achieved concrete results before. but he said that that couldn't happen until after gershkovich is tried, one of moscow's typical show trials. next on "mediabuzz," classified leaks used to be handed to specific news outlets, but what do you do when wartime secrets are posted on social media? glenn green wald weighs in on that. ♪ must be through the pandemic, getrefunds.com can see if it may qualify for a payroll tax refund of up to $26,000 per employee,

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♪ howard: "the washington post" all but fingered the man who posted a massive haul of u.s. intelligence documents. the next day the fbi arrested 21-year-old guardsman jack teixeira who was trying to impress his friends in a chat room. national security spokesman john kim kirby said the media shouldn't touch this top secret material. >> this is information that has no business in the public domain. it has no business if you don't mind me saying on the pages of, front pages of newspapers or on television. howard: joining us now from brazil, glenn greenwald, who hosts a nightly show on rumble. i want to start with jack kirby's admonition to the media before the leaker was arrested. is it reasonable to ask people not to publish when the sufficient is on social media and access to the folks around the world? >> of course not. it's already out in the public. but i think the bigger point, howie, is one of the things we have to realize is the u.s. government abuses its secrecy

powers. they essentially label every document classified information. when i was working on the snowden archive, hundreds of thousands of documents if not more, there were documents that were so banal, like ways to get your vacation days or your parking credentials that would be labeled classified. it was illegal to leak it even though it has no value at all. so a lot of times what the government says is top secret or classified isn't harmful to leak at all. what they often are though are secrets that the public has a right to know such as how much more involved we are in ukraine than the government has said. u. howard: we invited add admirable kirby on this show, but the white house turns us -- turned us down. the documents were posted by a young gun enthusiast on cape cod, shared his sufficient with a chat gripe -- stuff with the chat group, and you accused the paper of doing the bidding of a

u.s. military -- is that a are legitimate news story? >> no. st the job of the fbi to catch people who leak classified information. as a journalist, those are the people we cultivate. those are the people we rely on to do our jobs. every single day, howie, "the new york times," "the washington post," nbc news, fox has storied along the lines of senior officials told us x, y and z, and they claim that this information is classified. the difference here is that this person didn't give this material to the new york times or washington post, and so bizarrely, they went on a hunt to find him and out him, and even the new york times' military reporter said although he deleted it, ironically, if he had given the documents to the new york times, we'd be doing everything to protect his identity instead of expose him. i think it's bizarre for media corporations to unearth sources and leakers. howard: well, that's the paradox. but let me test this here, are there no leakers who you would say it's legitimate for the press to try to expose?

what if service the somebody who was anti-american and wanted to jeopardize military people? what if it was somebody who took money from a foreign country to the expose nuclear secrets? >> right. but the irony here is that the new york times and the washington post in particular have been using these documents from the very beginning another the all kinds of reporting which means implicitly hay recognize these documents as being newsworthy and journalistically valuable. this is not a case where, say, troop movements or the names of covert or agents overseas was disclosed. the government always claims people are in danger when their scents get out that they don't want leaked. that's not the case. the fact that the we're all talking about the content of these materials proves that they're journalistically newsworthy in the eyes of the same news outlets that tracked them down. howard: you alluded to this earlier, when you obtained classified documents from ed snowden that were part of the guardian's pulitzer prize-winning team on that story, the paper could decide what to publish, what not to publish and be held accountable.

it's very different when all this classified material appears on the social chat site kiss cord and makes it way -- discord. then who's responsible? >> right. i mean, but let's remember that a lot of the major leaks over the past decade were more like this than the traditional leaks of, say, daniel ellsberg with the pentagon papers going to the times and the post. when wick by leaks, for example, gets a lot of information, that's people saying we don't trust these mainstream outlets because they'll suppress the story or manipulate it. ed edward snowden came to me because i was independent, not because i worked at the guard a january. i'd only worked there a but months. there's a growing recognition that they don't need media anymore, and they don't trust the media anymore. howard: you've dealt with some bigtime leakers. they usually have some kind of motive or agenda. what do you make of a 21-year-old man taking these risks to himself allegedly to

impress his young friends in this chat room? >> i think we should be, first of all, a little bit cautious about assuming we know the motives. a lot of times motives are very mixed. it could be that he wants his friends to see these documents because that they had misconceptions about what the u.s. was doing in ukraine, maybe part of service the seeking notoriety -- it was seeking notoriety and fame. as a journalist, interest i have is what do the documents reveal, not messily why this person brought them -- necessarily why this person brought them forward. i think it's hard to claim he had malice given that he count seem to have, say, sold it to the russians or the chinese. he was trying to hoe people the truth. howard: well, finally, the leaked material says ukraine is in a much more vulnerable position in fighting the russians in terms of vulnerability, running low on ammo, than the biden administration's publicly proclaimed. does that bring to mind the old vietnam war phrase credibility

gap? >> yeah. remember, the reason daniel ellsberg leaked the pentagon papers was because the u.s. government was telling american people they were winning the vietnam war, and privately they were saying the most they could hope for was a stalemate, and he felt compelled to show the truth. very similar in that it not only shows the ukrainians losing, at least more so than the government admits, but also that the u.s. government has special forces deployed on the ground in ukraine which i think if it's something we're going another the, i do think we should know about it first. howard: yeah. we need to compare the substance ott public statements. brent greenwald, thanks very much for joining us. >> thanks or for having me, howely. howard: after the break, donald trump's republican rivals scramble for media attention the, he makes big news and draws some flak with a fox newser in. interview. that's next this is what you want for your family portrait? good point. we bundled the boat with our home and auto first.

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howard: well, donald trump's republican rivals are struggling for media attention the, the former president made headlines by sitting down with tucker carlson and describing his new york arraignment. >> it's the tough, a tough place. and they were crying. they were actually crying. they said, i'm sorry. they say 2024, sir, 2024. and tears are pouring down their eyes. >> do you think biden will stay in the race? >> look, waif him just like you co, and i think it's almost inappropriate for me to say it, but i deal with other people.

i don't see, i don't see how it's possible. it's not an age thing. howard: joining us now on the coverage, robbie swo say, and iowa misha cross. robby, when donald trump tells tucker carlson biden won't be able to run again, is that just typical of the provocative comments that he knows will drive the news cycle? >> surest the bluster, the exaggeration. you heard what he had to say about the crying employees who were helping shep is herd him through the arraignment. all that aside, people, trump still remains very popular. his policies, extremely popular among the republican base. i think it would behoove him to draw a contrast with biden not just in terms of age, i mean, they're both up there. a lot of people running our government are up there right now, that that's the problem, and instead concentrate on the policies that he thinks are leading our country astray and what he would do differently. he can point out on foreign policy, on the economy, etc., rather than just kind of reflect

on something everyone's noticed which is biden's not so up on his words as he used to be. howard: right. clearly, the media cofind trump fascinating, but the account of people crying at the courthouse in new york was total b.s., you know, another example of the press trying to knock down something donald trump says. >> oh, absolutely. and trump being bombastic and creating stories that aren't really stories to exemplify that he has these crowds and these people who actually care and are emotive, that's nothing new. the man did it long before he became president -- howard: he won the presidency, yeah. >> but he views this entire indictment, the arraignment, quite frankly, to fundraise, to bolster attention and to have the media after -- chase after him. i don't think there's anything better than the way the media has chased its tail in the way it's covered him up to this point. we know over $7 million was funda raised for donald trump's campaign just based on the

indictment alone, so he's using to help him. house howe it's a winning issue for him. let me play one other part of the trump interview that's gotten a lot of attention. >> our guy's not top of the line, never wasful people ask me how smart is she, i say, top of the line, you never met anybody smarter. how smart is kim jong un? top of the line. howard: he's drawn pretty heavy media flak, and he just went on about kim jong un, putin, mi, and he did it at len -- xi. >> xi jinping is clearly a smart man, and he he effectively rules china. that doesn't mean he's a good man, in fact, he's an authoritarian the, but is there something wrong being, you know, respectful of leaders of other countries even as we're going to confront them and have differences with them? i don't think anyone, i don't think the people are really annoy ifed by this. this is a media thing, this is a oh, how dare he.

people have never cared about him saying those things. it doesn't mean we're not going to confront or challenge them, but pointing out the obvious truth that xi jinping is smart. howard: full outrage by the media in your view, i was particularly struck by the praise of putin because he has launched this brutal invasion of ukraine and is clearly a war criminal, but donald trump still likes him. >> absolutely. and i disagree with robby. i think we have a former president in donald trump who is use to praising dictators and authoritarianism. we also have a republican party that is supporting authoritarian regimes in their support of donald trump. howard: so you don't think it's -- >> no, absolutely not. we're act actively trying to protect democrat and democracies a abroad and say as -- stay as close to u.n. and our nato allies as possible. you cannot be someone who has held a seat of power as the most important person on the globe politically and support and have nice things to say about putin.

you just cannot. howard: well, what does do to the republican rivals in this race, robby? because nikki haley does not want to criticize donald trump directly, so she had her staff ooh leak a comfortable memo to the axios. it got a few blips of coverage. >> and, yes, he is often consume by grievances of the past, but he sill, he understands something about republican base, about a lot of republican voters and even a lot of independent, former democrats, rust belt people who care about what's going the on in this country. it doesn't mean we don't care about ukraine or the rest are of the world, but trump understood that the neo-con seven consensus opinion, that that that is not what republican voters want. he gets that. he sill gets that. i'm not sure rivals like nikki haley get that. maybe ron desantis the gets that, i don't know. this ises why he's still relevant because idealogically, he's a different kind of republican than ones that ran in the oughts, and that is to his

advantage. howard: well, he's a former president who's far and away the leading con tender for the 204 nominate nation. and also he does things like suing his former lawyer, michael cohen, for $500,000. that suit is not going to fly because cohen was every thing at behest of prosecutors. tim scott announced an exploratory committee, and he got one day of modest coverage. nothing like trump's fox interview. >> and i don't think anyone expected him to. howard: why not? is he a long shot? >> not only a long shot is, he's also running in the primary with nikki haley, another south carolinian, and tim scott is not as bombastic. i think if you're going of to have to go after donald trump who is right now the leading con ender for the republican primary, you're going to have to attack him. no one is willing to do it. they're willing to speak to his audience, they're willing own gauge on trumpism because they know there is a voting base for it, but you are not going to

make it out of a primary if you don't want to go after the leader in that primary. howard: and certainly, ron desantis not willing to do it right now. still to come, why the press is riled up about a few words from joe biden to al roker about watching his campaign sometimes. ♪ ♪

howard: it was at the white house easter egg roll that nbc's al roker tried to get president biden to tip his hand about 2024. >> come on, help a brother out, make some news for me here. >> no, no, no. i plan on running, al, but we're not prepared to answer it yet. howard: some in the media went nuts over this, why was it treated as big news? >> that that confused me, to be honest, because biden has consistently given ire to him running in 2024 and has said

very similar things in media after media, so this one wasn't as huge of a keel, i thought, seeing it because there was no quay indicator that he wasn't going to run in 2024. howard: you are right. and he was asked again about it by a bunch of reporters in ireland, and he said, i already toll you. >> he's absolutely going to run, so this speculation is beside the point -- howard: right. >> no one would cede their power, it would be unprecedented, we'd have to go back to the, like, lbj to find even a relevant example of someone eligible possibly to be president again, deciding not to. but biden, look, he did well in the midterms, his party did well, he got a lot of credit for it. i don't like a lot of his policy, but he's holding the democratic coalition together -- howard: he's certainly not playing coy. let me play a social media interview that elon musk, the twitter czar, got into kind of a back and forth with a bbc reporter about whether there's now more hate speech on twitter since he bought the place.

>> because you can't name a single example of hateful content. not even one wall street. and if yet you claimed that it was high. that's false. of. >> no, what i -- >> that's a lie. >> no. howard: so that's an argument. in the meantime, npr has now quit twitter, objecting to be identified as a state-affiliated or government-funded network. and matt taibbi has left twitter in a feud over musk severing links to substack where he writes. how is think -- any of this helping elon musk? >> i don't think it is. we've seen that with the shareholders who have taken issue with tesla. we've seen that with the advertisers who have left and will never return to twitter. we've seen it with, and i wish the bbc interview had included the statements of and what we've seen from the anti-defamation league, the organizations that are fighting anti-semitism, civil rights organizations that literally have scrolls upon vols of information based on a lot of

the hate rhetoric that is being shared across social media, particularly twitter, since the rise of elon musk. all of that is legitimate. howard: but, robby, liberals never liked elon musk when he took this place over, and so they're saying aha. as major organizations leave, some of the attraction melts away. >> i think so. i'm grateful to the transparent she he brought showing us this tremendous web of collusion wean federal agencies and mainstream media and con end the moderators at twitter to censor important speech relating to covid -- howard: yep, i agree. >> i'm glad this happened. it's frustrating that the matt taibbi partnership is coming to an end because, yes, elon is making some choices that i think are not great. i think he would recognize it if he were someone else, i think he's too in it. howard: ask finally, remember when he was going to accept down as ceo after a poll? he announced during this chat that his dog is the new ceo of twitter. thanks, guys. that's it for this edition of "mediabuzz." i'm howard kurtz.

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we begin with a sweet 16 birthday celebration in alabama, taking a tragic turn. police say at least four people are dead, several more hurt after someone fired into the crowd. hello everyone this is a brand-new hour of fox news 55 arthel neville. twenty-four hello everyone thank you for joining us i'm eric sean. details on this alabama mass shooting are still coming into our newsroom. so far this is what we know. police that happened about 10:30 p.m. last night and that's