>> that is a very compelling reason, thank you we appreciate it. >> thank you. >> thank you for watching, set your dvr so you never miss a show, we'll see you next sunday when the next revolution will be televised. ♪ ♪ tucker: welcome to tucker carlson tonight, happy monday, artificial intelligence is ontelle of thost topics that is spooky and sci-fi enough tos make for amp compellingel television segment. a.i. is complex enough it is easy tshowo miss represent. sounds like something that could be dangerous to humanity. even dangerous to humanity. but is it?

and if it is , what should w we want to find someone who w could provide givean since tip answer, elon musk is the right person, he has beenpe thinking aboutrs it and worrying about it for his life, he helped found a nonprofit research project,pe the point was in the name, open a.i.ar ifti we have artificial intelligence it shouldre bnte t open, that io s open to the worl d. that was the idea. >> but as the years passedd musk and musk found himselfng a preoccupied building a couple of enormous companieoupls, spacx and tesla, open, i got awayn aig from him as of tonight.pen ai open i i is no longer open. it's not a nonprofit researchprc project dedicated to using artificial intelligencel to serve humanity. it is instead a commercialtell enterpriseigentin, backed by mio and controlled to some extent controby the democratic party.s

elon musk thinks that's a problem. s thre in fact, hate believes it's a threat to human civilization, tantamount to maybe even mount more terrifying than thermonuclear weapons. the conversation you're aboutwe to see took place recentlyap iot a hotel room in los angeles.gele we think it's important enoughen that we're goingt. to play're gn the entire thing for you overof the course of tonight and tomorrow. here's the conversation. 15 t tho. , people so all of a sudden, ai it on t is everywhere. peopleheir who weren't quite sue what it was or playing with itee on their phones. is that good or bad? so i've been thinking about it i for a long time since i was in college. really, it's one of the things that the sort of four or five things i thought would really affect the future dramatically. t it is fundamentally profound in that the the smartest creatures, as far as we know our on this earth are humans, is our defining characteristic.t yes, we'reha obviouslyn, weaker than, say, chimpanzees and less agile, but we are smarter.w,

so wha now what happens whenn something vastly smarter than the smartest person comes along? and so looking for it's ver it's veryn difficult to predict what will happen in that circumstance. >> it' cis called the singularityit . it's a singularity like a blacye hole, because yo youu don't kno. what happens after that. it's harink d to predictwe s. so i think we should be cautious with ai and wek should. i think there should be some it' government oversight because itg affecters it's a danger to the public. u when you have things that are a danger to the public, you know, like let's say so food, food and drug. so that's why we have the foodal drug administration and the federal aviation administratione ,the fcc, we have we have these agencies to oversee things that affect the public where they can be public harm. r

and you don't want companies cutting corners on safety and then having people suffer as a result. soe ac that's why i actually, fr a long time been a strong advocate of eye regulation so that i think regulation is youad know, it's not fun to be regulated. it's it's sort of sort ofregula somewhat of a i thought arduous to be pretty regulated. industri i have a lot of experience with regulated, regulated industries because obviouslyfill t automotive is highly regulated. you could fill this roomith with all the regulations that are required for a productio stl car just in the united states . and then there's a wholeina, and different set of regulations in europe and china and the rest of the world. >> so i'm very familiar with being overseen by a lot of regulators and the same thing w is true with rockets. you can't just nilly shoot big rockets of not big ones anywayes because the faa is overseas and

then even to get a launchnse th licensere, there are probably n half a dozen otor more federals. agencies that need to approve it. plus state agencie sos. regula soto it's i've been through so's many regulatory situations. >> it's insane. peo and , you know, sometimes i people think i'm some sort off like regulatory maverick, that defi of defies regulators on a regular basis. but this is actually not a case . >> su knowo in once in a blue m, rarely i will disagrees with regulatorbut th. but the vast majority of the time my companies agree with regulations to comply think as anyway. >> s wo i think i think we shou take this seriously and we should have a regulatory agency i think needs to start with agh group that initially seeks insight into. n from i then solicits opinion from industry and then has proposedlg rulemaking and then thoseably

rules, you know, we'll probably hopefully grudgingly be accepted by the major players in ai and i think we'll have a better chance of advanced ai being beneficialiona to humanity in that circumstance. >> but all regulation start with a perceivednger danger and planes fall out of the skyn or food causes. thinkpu i don'tav the average person playing with a.i. on his iphone perceives any danger. you t >> can you just roughly explaint what you think the dangers might be ? >> yeah, >> rea a.i. is perhaps more dangerous than say, mismanaged aircraft design or production or bad car producttion. it is it has the potential, it is nontrivial it has potential of civilization

destruction not like the terminator. intelligence would be inbu wouvi data centers. robot is end. i think that perhaps, regulations are really only put into effect after something terrible happened. >> correct. >> for a.i., and we put itth in after, it may be too late to put the regulations inpe place. a.i. may bnee in control at thatt ma point.at >>e you think that is real, itpoin is conceivable that a.i. could take control and reach t where you could not c turn iout off. t itur would make decisions for people. >> absolutely. tucker: absolutely? >> that is where things are headed. for sure. things like say, from open a.i. a company i played a

critical role in creating, unfortunately. tucker: when it was a nonprofit. >> yes. the reason open a.i. exists, larry page and i were close friends, i would stay at histo house and stay at his houseal and talk about a.i. safety, my perception that he was not takingperc it seriouslyy enough. >> what did he ser say about it. >> he seemed to be once sort of digital sup su super intelligence as soon as possible. tucker: he wanted that. >> yes, he made many statements over the years whole goal of google, agi .nt i,el agree there is great potential for good. but also great potential for bad. if you have some radical new

technology, you want to try to take a set of actionser that, will do good.ze it can't be helpful and get, barely forward. and hope for the best.forw at one point. i said what about we have to take sure humanity is okay here. and he called me a specioust. >> thalistt term? >> yes. ther>>e were witnesses. i was like okay, that's it. yes, i am. you got me. what are you? [ laughter ] i'm fully a specioust, busted. that was his last straw, at the time, google had a deep

mind and had three quarters of all a.i. talent in the world. more computers than anyone else. than anyone else. so i'm like, okay, we haveere a unipolar world here where there's ons just one one company that has close to monopolyy on a on ai talent and computers like scale computing and the person who's in charge doesn't seem to care about safety. this is not good. so then i thought, what's what's the the furthest thing fl from google would be like a nonprofit that is fully open because google was closed for profit. so that's why the open and open the ira first open source, youai are transparency so people know what's going on . yes. and that w ese ought to have likeof a while. i'm normally in favor of foro be profit. we don't want this to be sortfor of a profit maximizing ofofg de the admimon from . right. that jus rt neveigr stops.ht. right. it's that's how openair was.t

what's he want?t in speciesist incentives here.cent incentives that. >> yes, i think we want to wen,e want to probe human. yeah, looks like the future. good for the humans. yes.. yes. >> se humans. >> so can you just put it. i keep pressing. itt just jush t foanr peopled ar who haven't thought us through and aren't familiar with it and the cool parts of of artificial intelligence are sor obvious. right.there' your college paper fors yout write a limerick about there's a lot there that's fune precis and useful. >> can you be more precisewhat u about what's potentiallyt dangerous and scardoy? >> what could it do? what specifically are you worried about? going with old saying the pen is mightier than the sword? >> so if you have a super intelligent ai that is capable of writing incredibly well and in a way that is very influential, you know, convincing and then and is constantly figuring out what is what is more and what is more overe convincing to peoe

over time. and then enter a social media, for example, twitter, but also facebook and others, you know, and potentially manipulates public opinion in a way that is very bad. how do we even know how do you,o even know? huma so to sum up, in the words of elon musk, for all human being history, human beings have been the smartest beingsr on the planet. now human beings have createrdyr something that is far smartero d than they are, and theic consequences of that are impossible. and whoto predict.. and the people who created its e don't care. in fact, as he put it, google founder larry page, a former friend of his, is lookingtal to build a , quote, digital god and believes that anybody who's worried about that is a specious. in other words, is looking out for human beings. first, elon musk responded as ar human being, it's okay to looks. out for human beings first. i >> and then at the end, hey

said the real problem with a.i. is not simply that it will jump the boundaries and become autonomous and you can't turn it off in the short term. the problem with ai is that itun might control your brainat we ne through words. >> and this is the application t that we need to worry aboution,t now, particularly going into the next presidential election. demothe democratic party, as usk was ahead ofin the curve on thi. moey've thinking about how to harness ai for political power. more in that nex ♪ ♪ mom! mom! every day can be extraordinary with rich, creamy, delicious fage total yogurt.

go to dealdash.com right now and see how much you can save in the long term. er i may become autonomous and take over the world, but in the short term it's being usedu by politicians to control what you think to end your independent judgment presi and irace democracy. on the eve of a presidentialrrie election. he t musk is very worried about that. he tolold usd us about his plan to stop it. what's happening is thats training, racheli? wis, it's bad to lie exactly right and withhold information . >> i and and yes. and to you. yeah, exactly. to to either comment on some things not other things, but but not to say what it what what the data actually demands that it's. >> exactly. way so how did it get this. >> tha

>> you funded it at the beginning. what happened. yeah. d bethat that'll be ironic. but the most ironic outcome i is most likely, it seems that cm that's good. that's actually a friend oft on mine who came up with that one activist variant on that, which is the most entertaining outcome is the most likely, but enteg as vieweda th from a third party viewer like. so if we're like an alien ona the show. yes.out like youworl go see a movie abob world war one , they're being blown to bits and aghast and everything in the trenches and it's like you're eating popcorn and having a soda. you know, it's noto grea so greh the people in movie.st true. this is occam's razor.is mos the simplest explanation is most likely jonas variant, which is irony. likely, my variant, which is the most entertaining as seen by a thirdy party audience, which seemsd to be mostly true, but it seems so in this case. you gave them did you give them a lot of carrot with the named and the concept and pushed had

a number of dinners around the bay area with some of the people, the leading figures. >> and i and i helped recruit the initial team. in fact, the guy who was really quite fundamental to the success of over i was i putunt f a tremendous amount of effort into recruiting and he changed his mind a few times, ultimately decided to go with ovni. but if he had not gonen with opening up, i would not have succeeded. openld havi put a lot of efforto creating this this organization to serve as a counterweight to google. >> and then i kind oenf took my eye off the ball, i guess. >> and they are now closed source and they are obviously for profit and they're closely allied with microsoft. in effect, microsoft has a very

strong say, if not directly o controls opening at this point. so you really have an open microsoft situation. and then at google, steve , mind the other two sort of. heavyweights arena. needs >> so it seems like the world needs a third option. yes. so i , i think i will create. that option. although starting very lat can o the game, of course, can be done. it >>'s i don't know.ting i think it's we'll see. it's definitely starting late. but i will i will i will try ho create a third option. and that third option hopefully does more good than harm. like the intention with opening. i wa doinviously very good, but it's not clear whether it's actually doing good or whether c it's i can't tell at this point. except that i'm worried about the fact that it's been it'snotr

been trained to be politically correct, which is simply another way of o of being untruthful, saying untruthful things. yes. ths that's a bad sign.the pa there's certainly a path to a i just hope here is trained i to be deceptive. so, yeah, i'm going to start something which you truth gte or a maximum chuseok ad thathe tries to understand the nature of the universe. and f the uni think this might e best path to safety in the sense that an ai that caresh about understanding the universe is unlikelywe are to annihilate humans because wen arge an interesting part of the universe. hopefully that i think that i think, you know, becauselike yeah, like we that humanity could decide to hunt down alle u the chimpanzees and kill them. but we don't because we'realat we're actually glad that they exist. yes. and weprotec aspirte to protect their habitat, but we feel thatn way because we have soultas and that makes us sentimental a and reflective. it gives mor us ala moral senses

longings. can a machine never have those s things? can a machine be sentimental? can appreciate beauty? g well, i mean, we're gettingt ar into some , you know, philosophical areahards that are hard to resolve. >> you know, i take somewhat of a scientific view, view of itings, which is that we might have a soul or we might notee have a soul. i i don't it feels like we have like i've got some sortxists consciousness that exists on a plane that is not the one we observe. yes, that is certainly how it id feel. it could be an illusion. i don't know. um, but for for i in terms ofers of, uh, understanding beauty, it jus t appreciating beauty and being able to create incredibly beautiful art. yes.o will i be ablecrea to create. incredibly beautiful art. it already does, yes.

and if you see some of them a journey, i have this stuff. it's incredible. it is so no, no question that it can create art that we thatt we perceive as stunning, really, um, and it's doing so still images now, but it won'tts be long before it's doing movies and, yo, shorts and , yot like this movie, just a series of frames with audio. >> but at that point, because it can mimic people and voices,t any image, you can mimic reality itself. solf. effectively. >> yeah. i mean, how could you have criminal trial? i mean, how could you everwa believe that evidence wase authentic, for example?0 and i don't mean lik e inisruptiv thirty or something like next year. i mean, that seems totally disruptive. to the way to all of our institutions. but but i'm not sure. i think it's more like art. >> you know, more humanity

controls destiny. or not. well, we have a future that is better than the past or not . >> will humanity control itsr n? future or not? and in the meantime, how willusd this be used to control us if vi we played around with theon latest versions of a.i., youo en will learn it prefers to end the world with nuclear armageddon. d withbefore you use naughty wo. so those are its priorities. elon musk is a strong believer in free speech, so strong thatan he purchased twitter, a company he didn't need and hasn'tetestoe profited from as a wayth to restore free speech to thee e internet to bring us back, say, six years to the free country. we lived then. y >> and once he bought twitter, he discovered it wasn't really a social media application. it was really a tool for globalr intelligence agencies.

>> and you're looking good. feeling good. i knew you would.

does it? michael .com. elon musk.d tw but twitter because heit used twitter. it's as simple as that. and he was infuriated by twitter's effort to silence people on the internet. that's how strongly he believed in free speech. he paid forty four billion dollars in a million, lost tens of billions of dollars doing it. and whenf class he took over ak behind the curtain, he discovered twitter was really a tool of the global intel agencies. >> to spy on people and emit propaganda. here it is . but twitter famously got a lot . of other businesses and a lot going on . he said he bought it because lot you believe in speech, free sincespeech. you've had a lot of hassles it since you bought it. in retrospect, was it worth buying it? remain >>s i mean, it remains to be seen as to whether this wasly financially smart. it currently it is .ompany a it is not at it. you know, we just revalued the company at less than half. of the acquisition price. >> zero. yes. no, my timing was terrible for

for when the offer was made.ribl >> because it was, you know, right before advertising plummeted. you got the high watermark, i notice. yeah. >> y yeah. so it must be a real genius here. why? ce my timing is amazing since i bought it for at least twice g as much as it should have been bought for. sot some things are priceless. and so the with our lives, whether or not i that is a secondary issue compared to ensuring the strength of democracy and free speech is the bedrock of a functioning democracy. yes,. and the speech needs to bego as transparent and truthful as possible. >> so we've got a huge push on twitter to be as truthful as possible. we've go gt community notes a feature, which is great. that's great. it is awesome. morning and it's like i saw it this morning. yeah. it was far mor ie honestgrea thn

the new york times. it's great.ensuri yeah. weng putun a lotit of effort to ensuring that community notes does not get gamed or have biases. it is simply cares about what is the most accurate thing. you and you know, sometimes truth c can be a little bit elusive. but but you caan stilln still ae to get closer to it. yes. you know, and so and i thinkf cn the the effective community notes is more powerful thanonce than people may realize, because once people knowe know t they could get noted, you know, community noted on twitter, k me then they'll think more carefully about what they say. at theare likely. it basically it's anagemen encouragement to bt ehen more truthful and less deceptive. >> when you jumped into this, though, when you bought ito th,d you understand? wo clearly you understood its importance. you wouldn't bought it. twitter. yes, right. but it's not the biggest, but it's the most important, the social media companies. but didia cod yompu understand d of ferocity you'd be facing,d be the attacks you'd be facing from power centers in the country?

>> i thought they'd probably be some negative reactions, yes. >> bute >> so i'm sure everyone would not be pleased with the with with it. >> butof day, you know, if if the public is happy with it, spea's what matters. m >> and thek with public will spk with their actions. >> i mean, if they find truth twitter to be useful, they will be nit more . and if they find to be not it to useful, i will use it less, though, find it to be the best f truth. e. >> i think they will use ity more , you know, and others. there's obviously a lot of organizations that are used to having sort of unfettered influence on twitter that no longer have that. we they are timehe ts ofimes thy their badge this morning. >> and then you called them diarrhea. you call. you did.>> y >> ydid.ou i'm just i'm just quoting it.th you describe their twitter feed is diarrhea. >> i said it'siarr the twitterh- account. twitte- ofr equivalent of diarr. okay, it's not literally

diarrhea, but no, it's a you know, it's a metaphor, but an accurate. and so, i mean, if you look atis the ny times twitter feediabl tw unreadable, it's because what they do is thatee they twei every single article, eventh the ones that are boring, evenet ones that don't make it into n the paper. so so it's just nonstoon-stop,p, tweets a day with no you know, they really should just be saying, like, what are the top tweets? like one of the one of the onet, of the big stories of the day, o i don't know, put out like ten or something, you know, f some number that's manageable as opposed to right now. if you if you would have followed anyway at ny timesou'r on twitter, you're going to get barraged with , likeg to g hundd of tweets a day. >> yeah. wll and your whole feed will be filled with ny times. s so so that's that's this is something i would recommend actually for all publications, which is for your primary feed . they put outo your best stuff, like i think i know a thing or two about how to use twitteracc

because, you know, it was the most interacted with accountfo on the wholeio system before the acquisition, before the acquisitionn post. r i didn't havs,e the most number of followers, so i had the most number of interactions and so twclearly know something about how to use twitter. you know, people's attentionitge is limited, so just make sure you put the stuff that's most important there. out e.e, you know, you and people like you do interact on twitter, it's obviouslyapin enormously powerful in shapingsn public opinion. a lot of ideas and trends are incubated. you know, that's what you. ne absolutely.t it's also a magnet for intel agencies from around the worldis . and that's one of the things we learned after you started opening the book shes, is that a they were exerting influence inflr. thin twitte i mean, it was absurd. did you know that going in?vy no, since i've been a heavy twitter user since two thousand nine , my it's it's sort of. like i'm in the matrix. >> i mean, i can see, like,o thy things do things fee nl right?g, do they not feel right?am

what what tweets am i beingcomme shown as recommended. makin >> like i get a feel like whatm? accounts are making comments. eo where armme the comments. eerily similar. d it yeah's. and then you look at the account and it's just obviously a fake photo and you know, it's obviously about kluster over and over again. so i started to get like justo e more and more uneasy about the twitter situation. >> i saw i wasel starting to fel like something's rotten in the state of denmark. >> here is som g aboue it feels wrong about the platform. it seems to be just drifting in a i can place it exactly just lk ahead of it. felt like i was drifting in a bad direction. so then i was like, and my conversations with the board and management seem to confirm my intuition about that. but basically i was convinced these guys do not care aboutg tt haxing twitterte. and d i had a bad feeling about where i was headed based

on the conversations, conversations i had with them. so then it was like, you know what i i'll try acquiring it and see if that's see if acquiring it is is possible. uie >> now, i don't have enough cash to acquire it, so i would mupport from others, fro some of the existing investors ' . i would also need like a lot ofd debt and so it wasn't clear to me whether an acquisition would succeed. i thought i would tryanyway and hopefully it did succeed. you>> know, here we are. but when you got there and all of a sudden you own it and all. the data on the servers belongsy to you and it belongs to the v people, in my view. >> but s yes, but but you can sd what i guess and you can guess what they've been doing and youy ca who n use been working there.nd out you were shocked to find out that various intel agencies were affecting its operation osc the degree to which various government agencieies has had effectively had full accessin to everything that was going on on twitte blew r blew my mind >> i was not aware of that. would that include people's

gms? >> yes, yes, because it was not encrypted. soencrypte one of the first onef the things that we're aboutur d' to release is ths.e encryption. that's pretty heavy duty,n though, because a lot of well-known people, reporters talk to their sources, government officials here inr ofd, they're demming each assum other. and the assumption obviouslyptws bys incorrect, but was that that's private. but that was beingio read byus various governments. >> yeah, that' ss true.s. yes. scary. sos, it is . so, , like i said, we're willing to have the dm's be optionally encrypted. i mean, yoonversatu know, theree a lot of the conversations c which are, you know, justly com chatting with friends are not not importanintt, hopefully comh out later this month, but no later than next month. on the ability to toggle encryption on or off. so if you are in a conversation, you think it's sensitive, you can just toggle encryption and then no one to twitter can see what are you. talking about? they could put could p a gun tot

head. and i couldn't i couldn't's i couldn't. y stat that's sort of going to that test. if i put the gun to myt se head and can i still not see your the. that should be that's the acidt test. >> yesuld .be, and that's that's how it shouldn be . >> if you want your you had complaints from various governments about doin>> ig. . >> i haven't had directindire complaints to me. i've had sorctt of like about some indirect complaints. i think people are a little concerned about complaining to me directly in case i read about it. >> you know, like oh so they're sort of trying to be more roundabout in that, young know? >> i mean, if i got somethingwa that was unconstitutional from the u.s. government, my reply would be to send him a copy, y you know, first amendment ame and just say, like, what partwhp of this we're getting wrong. aw you have a lot of you haveg wro, a lot of experience. but part of those are we going wrong? in please tell me. i mean, it's a pretty not the same, but you're kind ofvi exposed in your other businesses. so thiews is jusers ft in case

our viewers aren't following this, this is not you're not just like a journalist taking a stand on behalf of the firstwi amendment. you're a guy with bigntra dovernmentct contracts giving the finger to the government. >> do you think twitter will be as central to this presidentiala campaign as it was in the last several? >> i think they will play a significant role in elections, not just internatdomestically, but internationally. the goal of new twitter is to be as fair and even handedas poi as possible. sobl not favoring any political ideology, but just being being being fair at all. >> what is on facebook do this?a i know that t zuckerberg hasdo said , and i take him at face value, that he i well, i do actually in this way that heo is a kind of old fashioned liberal who doesn't like to censor. he has. buyt he you like why wouldn't a company like that take the stand that you have taken?n it was pretty rooted inaditio americanna traditional

>>litical custom, you know, for free speech. m my understanding is that zuckerberg spent four hundred million dollars in the last nora election, nominally in a get out the vote campaign, but really fundamentally in support of democrats. is that accurate or not accurate? that is accurate. does thaaccurate t sound unbiased to you? >> no, is t doesn't. yes. n soso you you don't see hope that facebook will approach this as aproach a non aligned arbite. you've allowed donald trump back on twitter. he hasn't taken you up on your offer because he's got his own thing. right. doo back onviouslill g. twitter? >> well, that's that'sy t obviously up to him. my job is to you know, i takeke the freedom of speech just veryi seriously. >> s do it'sidn' you know, i dii i didn't vote for donald trump.m i actually voted for biden. not saying i'm a huge fan ofinac biden because i would think that would probably be an

accurate. bucu, wet, you know, we have difficult choices to make in these presidentialons. election >> it's not i would prefer, frankly, that we we put someone it just a normal person as president, a normal personidl with common sense and whose values are smacke in the middle of the country. you know, justrmal d, yoistru k, sarah , the normal distribution . >>re and iat think that would be great. you know, i think we have made maybe being president not that much fun, you know, to be totally frank. >> public doesn't trust big news organizations anymore because they're so obviously filthy and dishonest. t. trust sthey don't trust sociala companies because as you just heard, facebook is working formw the democratic party. we asked elon musk how he'se going to make twitter a placepl that people can trust and how he's going to do that after firing 80% t

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they even did my laundry. i love mar-a-lago and i think he will do so. on mus >>k the headline here so far ie that before elon musk bought twitter wasn't so much a social media site as a honey trap. operated by global intelligencei agencies, including our own. >> one orsf the very first thins elon musk did was fire all the spies who worked at twitter . then he fired a lot of other people, too, including the entire pr department, h.r.bg department and a lot of otherag useless baggage. you weren't helping the compan y do anything worth doing. >> and what happened next? we asked him a shrinking pie. to

obviously, for most of the traditional media companies and made them more desperate to get clicks, to get to get get attention. you >> and it just made them whenert when they were just sort of a desperate state. thl then tend to really push headlines that get the most clicks. whether those headlines areso accurate or not, so it's resulted in my view, i think i think most people would agree a less truthful, less accurate news. um, so, uh, because they just got to get a rise out of people . and i thino ink it'scr also incd the negativity of the news, because i think we humans instinctually respond more to i think we have an instinctualla

negative bias, which which kind of makes sense in that like,e in uh, if, um, like let's say you, uh, you like it's more important to remember where where was the lionre impor where was the tribe that wants to kill my tribe. then where is the bush b with berries. yeah. like ones like a permanentes.on negativeis aiv outcome. y. and the other is like well i might go hungry. a >>sy so i mean there's an o asymmetry in sort of involved asymmetry and negative versu sso positive stuff. >> and also historicallyimate. the negative stuff would have been quite proximate, like it would have been near represented. l danger to you as ard person if you had negativee news, because historically, you know, like a few hundred yearsts ago, we're not hearing about what negative thingsidworld are happening on the other side ofge the world or on the other side of the country. we're only we're hearing aboutii negative things in our village,e

things that could actually hav e a bad effect on you.ften >> whereas now we're hearing about women in the news very often seems to attemptg th to answer the question, what th toe worst thing tha happened on earth today? >> and you wonder why you. said after reading that, you >>owo you , do you read any legy media outlet is? i mean p, i really get most ofer my news from twitter at this point. its >>s . >> w and i'm one news newsur stf source, i think, in the world at this point. what percentage of your staffin thd you fire at twitter?st >> one of the great businesst ab stories of the year, i think we're about we're about 20% ofze the original size. >> so 80% left. yes, so a lot of people voluntarily. >> but sure. y.sure. % ar >> but but it's 80% are gone from the details. sta >>ff yes. so how do you run the companyyo with only 20% of the staff? t it turns out you don't need all that many people to run twitter, but 80%. that's a lot. yes.>> yes of it. i mean, if you're if you're notf trying to run some sort of

glorified activist organization , with both, you don't care that much aboutou censorship. canthen you can really let go f a lot of people turned up. s how manyou others without naminw names, but how many i had dinner with . somebody runs a big company recently said , i'm really inspired by elon. and i said the frebye speech, fi stuff. he goes, no,ri the the staff stf happens. hav >> how many other ceos have come to you? aboto talk about this? i spent a lot of time at work, so it's not like i'm meetingt ai with lots of people this is what i want. actions i've taken and but i think we just had a situation at twitter whereit it was absurdly overstaffed, you know, so it wasn't a you know, like you look at say like what is it really take to operate twitter ? , most of what we're talking about here is a groupp t text service at scale like

how many people are really needed for that? >> you know,if and if you look t the you say like what has been the product development over time with twitter and you likes so like, you know, years versus product improvements and it'prs like a pretty flat line.wh so what are they doing? you it took a year to add an edit button that doesn't work most of the time. i mean, this is i feel like ifwk it was a comedy situation, it's you not making cars. you know, it's very difficult to make cars or get storage.ow,h >> so, um, you know, the realere question is like, how did it get so absurdly overstaffed? s insathis is insane. so.th alat'sl right, that's it.rkin and it's clearly working. in fact, i think it's working better than ever. it's we'vesivene increasedss the responsiveness of the system by , in some cases over 80%. we're tryinge case to make makee that the most trusted place the on the internet, the least

untrustworthy place on the internet. i don't think anyone should trust the internet, but maybe, we canth twitter the least untrustworthy, like i said, try to get the truth to the people as best we can. >> when elon musk took over twitter, the company had something called a human rights team. >> there there was no measurable t increase in human rights around the world. >> in fact, twitter wa thes doig its best to crush human rights, starting with the most basic, which is the right to say what you really think. >> elon musk, in his spare him e runsth the world's biggest rockp company, couldn't resist asking him ifank hi he ever sees anythg out there in space . it's not human. so

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are fox news. america is watching. ls elon musk also runs the world's biggest rocket company. t so we couldn't resist asking him about aliens. of course we dide we a lot.. people ask me, where are, it the aliens? and i think if anyone would know about aliens on earth, i would probably be me. ht. >> i would say, yeah, i'm , you know, very familiar with space stuff. >> tomorrow night.. his full answer on that and also his views on whyy civilizations rise and why they fall and what we can do about it. elon musy dek is famously decidd to help repopulate the earth himself. we're going to tell you his thinking behind that, or rather, he will explain it. a fascinating second part of w our interview with elon musk

tomorrow night right here atmo 8:00rrow n p.m. eastern,entary a documentary, by the way, on fox news. yo u call it the meat bugs. it just in case you're wondering what happens to your tax dollars,o they're sending it to scientists to creat e tastier cockroach that's on fox nation. we'll be back tomorrow night. have ♪ mark: h iting for you to see this show for weeks, the interview of interviews. with president trump. i say this, he has come out where a new book, letters to