that all of the dallas canada did the dfw metroplex. there is one outlet mall that you go to. and there's this one right here . i mean, you got grapevine and some of the other ones, and then you have your luxury mouth. but if you want, uh, in between price point and you want to get the best for your buck. you go to allen, texas to this outlet mall. and everybody wants that. lawrence jones stick with us. we're going to check in now with cb cotton, who's in our new york city newsroom and has some updated information we are getting new information from fox news correspondent david spohn, he's confirmed the fbi is there on scene. he's learned from his sources that multiple people are dead but a definitive number is not being shared at this time. he's telling me a press conference is expected sometime tonight. in addition to this information from our fox news correspondent

david spohn multiple people have lost her life in this incident. we do know according to multiple reports that a shooter is dead. this is according to multiple reports. we've not confirmed this with our law enforcement sources. we are seeing abc affiliate w faa is reporting children have died in this tragedy. abc affiliate the faa is saying the sheriff relayed this information to them on scene. we do know there are 120 sto stories, they been mentioning this is an expansive area. this is the processing law enforcement will have in terms of processing the scene. what i can think os about the efforts officers had to do

and crime scene investigators had to do a process and the entire grocery store. he might be able to surmise there will be a daunting task ahead for the officers on scene here in texas but the fox news d spunt is there are multiple people who have lost their lives in this incident. this suburban shopping mall again, 30 miles north of dallas, people made their way here today, beautiful sunny day to shop and many of them saying they started hearing gunfire and started hiding in the stores. we were hearing reports that police officers had the task in front of them to go through and evacuate this suburban shopping mall. they were going inside according to reports, there were going inside stores seeing multiple peoples hiding from the gunfire. we heard one witness tell our fox news affiliate that she was

outside a store, she heard popping sounds and she even saw sparks and then another 17-year-old telling the new york times he was waiting in his car for shift to start when he heard gunfire and i mentioned this earlier i went back and. reporter: the article. he said somebody ran over to h him, made a gesture, can i get in your car? they drove off quickly from the scene. terrifying moments for the people who came here today, hoping to shop, spend time with loved ones and now they are dealing with this. the trauma they will experience after this. some families today are receiving the worst news of their lives. our hearts go out to them. we don't know much more beyond these initial reports. the allen police department still hasn't provided an update, we know they are busy but just before 5:30 p.m., they took to social media to ask people to

stay away from the area. you got to hope people listen to what law enforcement are telling them in these circumstances because they are going to have their work cut out for them. >> they certainly are. cb cotton, we will let you get back to the computer and do more checking. ted williams back with us, former homicide detective, fox news contributor as well. it is the worst possible news that there are a number of victims deceased. ted and some of them are children. i suppose maybe the one saving grace is because of the structure of the mall, it's an outdoor mall, the gunman apparently would have gone into maybe one historic and opened fire. that's maybe a better situation than an indoor mall where you've got multiple stores and a hallway the guy could run down and continue firing. >> you are absolutely right. the fact that this was somewhat

of an open area, and outdoor mall or stores are probably benefited patrons from being hurt here. john, your heart has to go out when you hear of anybody being killed but then when you hear about children being killed, that's a double whammy that i would have to believe some of the questions the press conference will perhaps answer is first of all who took the shooter down? was that someone, a patron of one of the stores or was it law enforcement that took the person down? number two, i want to know, where did he come from? perhaps there will be video to show if he had an automobile, if he came in and automobile. you're always concerned about

accomplices in these types of cases where someone may have left the shooter off at the mall. you certainly want to know that so what law enforcement is having to do is work from the neutralized body backwards to try to determine as much as they can about this shooter and establish a motive. >> the calling county sheriff and local police along with texas state officials are leading the investigation and that from david spunt. there's going to be a news conference a bit later on but we don't know exactly when. danny colson is still with us, former fbi assistant director at an fbi hostage rescue team commander. danny, fox now confirmed that the shooter has been killed but again, we don't know anything more about the identity of that

person or the number of victims here. a lot of questions, still to be answered. >> there are and one thing i want to say, most active shooter situations take place in nice areas they take place in malls and schools. i think i have five active shooter cases are doing right now and every one of them are in low crime areas. that's the way it works. because you've got a nice mall, it does not mean we can lay. how do i get out of here? ted pointed out, this is outside. that's better because outside, you can get out. if you hear something like this, run for your life, he's out. people say don't panic, in my business, they panic. get away from the sound. run from the sound and take cover. this is important, really important. the police are minutes away.

seconds matter. protect yourself. >> that's good advice and something we should all keep in mind. danny colson, stick with us if you would. we have a snippet of an interview with a model employee. i want to play that for our viewers right now. >> my manager goes towards the door and next thing you know is all you hear is 50 to 60 gunshots. >> rapidfire. >> rapidfire. we are hearing, we are trying to get customers, they were looking at the door. you got to get back, get back. now that they are escorting themselves, you see windows, three doors down from us, broken glass. >> so that from a model employee. steve rogers is back with us, retired new jersey police detective and lieutenant. fifty or 60 shots, steve.

that raises the stakes here tremendously. this could be a horrific situation. >> of course we don't know the tracks until the police continue with their investigation. but i'll tell you, goes through my mind also are the things going to the minds of those first responders. when you talk about children, those cops went in and had to see young children deceased on the ground as a result of the shooter. his horrific and something we need to keep in mind long-term effects on our officers, certainly something that's going to be, the police department. in regards to the investigation, what ted articulated was going to my mind, who took out the shooter? what is a civilian house armed, was at the police? did the shooter commit suicide? is going to lead somehow to the motive and hopefully we will get

to that very soon and we will learn about that in the press conference. >> let's check in with david spunt, just as correspondent who has information, contact obviously at the fbi. what can you tell us? >> i wish i could tell you more, tragic story, fbi on the scene being led by the calling county sheriff's office. allen police department, all we are being told, multiple victims on scene. we don't have names or ages. but clearly of fluid scene right now. source tells fox news the shooter is dead. i know we've been reporting that as your previous guests said we are not sure exactly what happened, what led to the circumstances, if it was self-inflicted, law enforcement or somebody that may have been armed at that time but this is an outlet mall north of dallas, not far from plano texas a beautiful day in the suburb of allen, texas and calling county,

people outside, the shooter rings out. , shots ring out, excuse me. police were on scene within minutes. hundreds of people in the parking lot as we been able to see from the helicopter footage, from local affiliates on the ground but right now we can confirm the shooter is dead, fbi is on the scene and so is the atf. they are lending their expertise as much as possible. i assume this will go on for many months, the investigation, you don't see behind the scenes of how these go on but the big thing right now, clearing told the shooter is dead and we are waiting for some sort of update from law enforcement. we are told is going to come from local officials on scene at some time. we should be seeing folks come to the microphone to get some sort of update but a tragedy today in texas. >> absolutely. echo that fought. thanks very much.

ted williams, back with us. the marks, the mall employee, 50 or 60 shots, that is a stunning and frightening number especially if this was a handgun because handguns generally don't carry clips with more than say ten shots in them. >> absolutely right, john. a lot of times when there are shootings of this nature, the various individuals who witness or hear something, they have gunfire that may have been more or less than the amount of guns that were shot. but in this case, if you are talking 50 or 60 shots, you're talking about a semi automatic weapon and you certainly are not talking about a handgun under that scenario.

again there's so much we don't know. we have been told by david spunt and others that the shooter has been neutralized and is down but right now, we need to try to find more about the shooter, him or herself because we don't know that much and i think that's central and important part of the investigative process is that we know as much as we possibly can about the shooter and how the shooter, steve brought his representative, was neutralized. did the shooter, he or she committed suicide or was the shooter taken down by one of the patient at a mall that very m much, very well could have had a gun legitimately, was law enforcement involved in neutralizing the shooter? all of those questions are

there. hopefully we will get answers from law enforcement. >> he represents that part of texas, he released this week, he said we are devastated by the tragic news of the shootings that took place at the allen premium outlets, prayers with the victims and their families and all law enforcement personnel. says it's an ongoing situation. allen pd has full control of the scene, the shooter is down and there are multiple casualties, continuing to work to ensure the scene is safe. as we have seen people continue to stream out of more than 100 shopping outlets that make up this mall, that's going to be the huge job now for authorities there. to keep everybody calm and

process those who are witnesses and let the others go on about their lives. >> is certainly is a daunting task for law enforcement. i have to believe at this stage, someone as danny colson represented a little earlier, they have been part of this mall where the shooting took place and i think that would be the localized area in which law enforcement will look at and conduct its initial investigation it naturally will. what we have on the scene here at this time is we have local police officers, state police officers and we have federal police officers on the scene processing. i would have to believe the allen police department will take lead in this investigation.

you probably would have alcohol tax and tobacco, they will deal with that aspect. if the shooter and we would have had to have that, it, the weapon will be processed as part of the crime scene. one of the problems i'm always concerned about in these kinds of shootings, our copycats because what we find is other individuals here with deviant behaviors or deviant attitudes that will go out and try to replicate unfortunate incidents of what's taking place here in allen texas so i'm sure law enforcement officers are certain all over this country for that kind of activity. >> you can see the police and emergency response, still very

much present their the scene. the allen premium outlets, 30 miles or so on the north side of dallas. chris is with us by phone, former fbi special agent, what are the challenges for authorities now? we know the shooter is down but what happens now? >> now that can be very deliberate. the first thing we want to do is take care of the victims and get them in the hospital and this is not a time to rush through things. there are a lot of different departments on the scene, atf, fbi, local sheriff department, it takes a while to get things organized and getting the information flowing to the right place, to the one place where it needs to go, not five different places. we got to connect the dots and make sure the crime scene is preserved. obviously researching back from the identity of the shooter. probably getting to them right

about now, looking at his social media and electronic evidence video. just trying to reconstruct what happened, it's not a situation where they have to rush through, they can be very deliberate. jon: we are starting to see some of the emergency vehicles leaving now. i saw an ambulance depart a short time ago so the threat seems to have disappeared now. authorities to confirm the gunman is dead but there is still a lot of work to do, just notifying the families of the victims and we don't know how many of those there are. what about processing hundreds, maybe thousands of shoppers? how long is that going to have to go on? >> that's going to take a long time. some witnesses disappear qui quickly. you got to get them identified,

get someone to get them by themselves and interview them and get the information flowing to one place because the first thing that's perishable is the witnesses themselves, they tend to melt away and he don't get all eyewitness statements you like to have. the forensics stuff comes next and mentioned the things going on in the background, electronic evidence and video and all about. it does take a long time to get all the organized and then starting from scratch, this happened. i wouldn't look for a lot of answers, the basics, maybe the identity of the shooter, approximate number of victims. again, still present and we think, this is a situation where things have to get organized because so many departments,

witnesses and too much forensic territory to cover here. jon: we all want answers right away and obviously with so many departments involved, a large crime scene, it's going to take a little while to get those answers. there will be a news conference within the next couple of hours. precisely what has happened. let's go to ted williams again and ted, i find it remarkable, frightening frankly the statement from the store employee who said she heard 50 or 60 shots. if that's the case, the number of victims could be more than any of us could possibly imagine or bear. >> it's always sad when we have shootings of this nature and

naturally at this stage, we do not know how many people will not be going home, how many children will not be going home to their families tonight. it is important for us to know that and sure, jon, there are relatives and friends out of your head right now because there are so many questions that have not been answered. i'm sure the parents, these friends and associates trying to contact her loved ones and see if they are safe. from all indications, we know unfortunately, that there are individuals, children that very much are not going to be going home to their families tonight. the sad commentary about this is day after day, week after week,

we go through these same scenarios of these mall shootings. to be honest with you jon, there's no way to stop all of these mall shootings. you hear of individuals talking about the guns. that's an important conversation without a doubt but on the other hand, we have individual start here who are sick. i don't mean only mentally sick but individuals who are hell-bent on harming other human beings. that's one of the sad tragedies of what we have in this country but what we need now are some of the answers as to why, why would someone go into a mall where individuals, children as

lawrence jones said, a lot of teenagers just going to have a good time and to have the mall shot up. one of the things we have to look at is the psychological effects this is going to have not only on individuals who are perhaps injured in the crime scene but individuals who are patrons at various stores and heard what took place there this afternoon. jon: is going to be a lot of posttraumatic stress from this incident, that's for sure. cb cotton is covering the story for us here in our new york newsrooms and has information for us. >> i'm seeing some people take to social media right now writing that they were witness to the tragedy, particularly writing on social media pages of our fox affiliate fw, one woman

saying her loved ones exit is the suburban outlet mall with their hands up. the woman goes on to say that she's heard people were hiding in bathroom stalls and dressing themselves, up to 20 people. when you hear these numbers, it's terrifying. this many people crammed into a stall trying to hide from gunfire. awful. we also have new witness sound in our newsroom that describes terror shoppers have experienced. i want to let our viewers listen to this. >> when i came outside, i saw that lady, i took her in the shop and she was bleeding from the stomach or the arm. trying to get help in the manager took her to the back of the store to try to hide from the shooter. >> in the days ahead as we

continue to learn more about the shooter, he or she is possible motivation, we are going to keep hearing witness accounts like this and they are going to be astonishing, i can tell you that. again, still waiting to learn more as our colleague correspondent david spunt shared with us earlier, there is word of a press reading possibly happening tonight near that scene and we can only hope we can get updates on exactly what transpired here. reading a little bit about this town population, just over 100,000 so it appears the area is starting to have growth and boom. we heard our colleague lawrence jones and mentioned earlier, he talked about how popular this outdoor mall is and so many people like to go here. of course none of them could have imagined what they would be stepping into today. jon: thanks very much. let's check in with steve rogers, former new jersey police

detective. i keep coming back to the eyewitness account who said there were 50 or 60 gunshots she heard. that sounds like more than one shooter. there were reports, at least we are looking for a second gunman although that seems to have dissipated. there saying the gunman is down so apparently just one gunman. the one gunman was capable firing 50 or 60 shots, a terrifying notion. >> what comes to mind is the thought of people, yes i could. yes i could. yes i am. jon: go ahead, steve. >> okay. what comes to mind many times, no fault of the witnesses, they hear multiple shots fired in a case like this and put a number

to it. i remember many times police incidents, people would run up to me and say lieutenant, you had 50 cops at the scene when there are only five or ten. people are in shock, they don't know what to do, they are beside themselves so it may have been in a situation like that. hopefully there were no 50 or 60 shots. something very catastrophic but sometimes that does happen and could have happened in this case. jon: let's hope you are right about that great let's hope the human mind, its capacity to process numbers is inflated because 50 or 60 shots is a terrifying concept. casey stegall is based in dallas and joins us now with a live report. >> it took me quite a bit of time to get to the scene because police have such a large

perimeter set up. this is a big shopping complex, one of these open air shopping centers if you will. people park their cars, they get out and walk store to store. what happened is still very much shut down so you've got a lot of people like folks walking by right now, you have some people sitting on the curb down the road, a lot of folks kind of stranded because they cannot get back into the perimeter to even get their vehicles into a home so this is still clearly very fluid, still unfolding i have seen police helicopter buzzing around in the air. we've heard reports of a potential second shooter. those are just reports, nothing confirmed but there is a helicopter in the air right now and they are going over the scene.

they been circling it for some time. not clear if they are using air assistance, if there is a manhunt underway but just before we came on camera, police officer came up to me and advised me that the media staging area which is a little further away, the police chief was going to be doing a statement or an update there shortly we have our fox affiliate over there. we wanted to be up here, this is pretty much as close as we can get. the actual shopping complex is rather large. we are talking 50 or 60 different stores and it's all on the other side of that tree line but you have roads totally shut off to traffic so hard telling how late at night this is going to be some of these people that are just waiting to get back in but at least they are safe because we are hearing there

have been some casualties in this incident. numbers are would, maybe that something the police chief will give us an update on when that comes but for the most part, these people here just more or less, inconvenienced. saturday afternoon, a beautiful summer afternoon and you can imagine there were an awful lot of people here enjoying a beautiful day taking in some shopping and this unfolded. calls coming in around 8:30 p.m. central local time, 4:30 p.m. eastern and we saw that rather large police presence growing so this is something extremely moving and those parts will continue to do so as they do in these going to continue some information and talk to folks

and we will have an update when we get one. jon: casey outside the mall in allen, texas, the outlet mall where the case. a couple of is ago. ted williams with us, former d.c. homicide detectives, i want to talk about the notification process because there are people, victims here who have been killed solution told, how you police go about figuring out who they are and how to get a hold of loved ones? how do you do that? >> that is a difficult task. if the individuals who have been killed at some kind of identification on them, law enforcement will work on identification, notify their next of kin, a loved one. they are reserved and hope from

the public, individuals who have been killed are able to notify their next of kin. that is a daunting task. for individuals who they are not able to immediately identify, they will go through a process trying to see the fingerprints, identification they can use as head of the process trying to survive those kinds of individuals and then also very much witnesses who will also be able to help law enforcement petition process. perhaps some of these young people came to the mall, some children with some adult and those individuals perhaps will be identified by virtue of the

adult coming forward talking to law enforcement. law enforcement talking to so many people and you realize is only limited amount of law enforcement officers on a crime scene of this nature so what they're trying to do is figure out as much information they can about the fact that if someone came to the mall with someone and that person is now they will be able to connect law enforcement talking about the person who came to the crime scene but it task, a daunting task, it's not easy. one thing i am encouraged by his they have a press conference here soon where the chief of police can give us information, not only us that can be

disseminated families and friends, people who may have been. jon: stay with us for a bit if you would. let's check in with former fbi agent. chris, we know the shooter is dead and multiple reports but there might have been a second shooter. at this time, police are looking for are actively looking for anybody but i want to ask is the investigation presumably unless he wasn't carrying id at all we know who the shooter is and the apartment or home, wouldn't you guess?

>> they didn't have id but usually identifications come pretty quickly and the fbi will get an identity pretty quickly or even civil prince, military, etc. it's a pretty fast investigation and probably they are there, did he have a phone on him? if they had a phone, they will try to near the drive on the mobile device and get everything they can and any other media the social media and they think they are further along than they are and choreographed even though it's not. get to the place where they feel comfortable telling us things

and there are victims, you want to make sure the families get courtesy and they don't learn about things from the news instead of a police officer or law enforcement identifying them. it's a long day. jon: it is the worst kind of story to have to cover because you know there are going to be families in mourning, perhaps some of them already are. frantic family members, parents trying to find out what has happened to their loved ones and there aren't enough answers right now. we don't have many, we know one eyewitness said she was outside congress store, converse sneaker store when she heard gunshots and she and those with her took off running which is an appropriate response in a situation like this. casey stegall on the ground

outside the mall where this shooting took place a couple hours ago. what can you tell us? >> waiting for this group of people that are going to walk past here and then i will put them on the spot and see if perhaps they were inside the ball. if they will talk to us. we had a lot of people as i said earlier, hanging out because this is all shut down and they can't get to their cars. i will give it back to you. jon: we will let you talk to those folks and get back to us when you get the opportunity. again, this is an upscale outlet mall north of dallas, texas. allen is the town. lawrence jones who has shopped there many times says it's the place to go, a hangout for teenagers, gunfire interrupted some time around i think 5:30 p.m. a little bit earlier than that,

5:30 p.m. eastern time so that would be 4:30 p.m. perhaps central time where the mall is located. the gunman is deceased, we know. there are other victims, we just don't know how many we don't know the extent, we don't know the number but it's an absolutely horrific situation in allen, texas. ted williams continues to provide expertise, a former d.c. homicide investigator. ted, we don't see evil streaming out of the mall so much anymore. mostly we have officers standing by, they've evacuated the mall and taking witnesses statements, witnesses can begin.

>> what normally happens in these unfortunate incidents is a staging area is set up and not where they can go find information about someone they are concerned about but these staging areas are where law enforcement officers will go to try to interview in the process as many individuals as they possibly can because you must realize this was 120 stores in that mall so not all of the individuals have information they need to share with law enforcement but there are individuals that need to be able to provide information to law enforcement and law enforcement is looking for that information. what you find a lot of times is people will come up and volunteer information and as i said earlier they got to be

looking for video feeds throughout this area. going to be very significant in their investigation. jon: let me interrupt you for a second because we have on the phone, the attorney general of the state of texas ken paxton. general paxton, you are the state's top law enforcement officer. have you been able -- have you received any information you can share with us about the number of victims transpired here will have, this is an area of work that the south texas senate, ten minutes from the mall so i have a lot of personal experience, i know a lot of people who live in the area and live about ten minutes, a place my family often shop that. i'm very familiar with the outlet mall and have been there

many times. jon: let me interrupt you because we now have what appears to be a news conference just beginning with local authorities. >> this is going to be very short and i think you understand we can't take questions but 3:36 p.m., one of our officers is on an unrelated call at the outlet mall. he heard gunshots, went to the gunshots, engaged the suspects and neutralize the suspect. he called for amulets is, we haven't agency respond at the scene. they help us evacuate the mall, we have set up reunification areas. i talked to the governor, the governor pledged to offer support that the state has so we appreciate that. i'm not saying, our deepest sympathies are with the families of the victims. this is a tragedy. people will be looking for answers and we are sorry those

families are experiencing loss. we will have another briefing, the fire chief is going to talk in a minute but we will have another briefing in about two hours. we anticipate having it here but if we don't, we will let you know where it is. >> hello, i am jonathan boyd, fire chief of the allen fire department chief harvey said, don't have a lot of information. what i do have is we immediately implement active attack integrative response informed rescue task force with the police. we can quickly get to the victims here at the site. we transported nine victims to trauma facilities. those are the ones allen fire department transported, there may be others transported in private vehicles and those of the ones we know of. thank you. jon: it appears that's going to

be it for now from chief harvey there. i'm guessing he's with the allen police department and jonathan boyd, head of the local fire department. nine victims transported to hospitals. that's the number we know right now. nine victims but we don't know how many fatalities are involved and there could be any others as you heard the fire chief said were transported by private vehicle after this terrible mall shooting there in allen, texas. we have attorney general ken paxton with us once again so this is mall you obviously know well living close by there. i'm sure your heartbreaks like everybody else when you hear a situation like this. >> you never think it's going to happen in your hometown, allen is a home community. low crime rate so it is a shock to live close to something like

that no one expects that to happen and certainly not in a place like allen, texas has really low crime. jon: the chief said one of his officers was there on another issue, maybe shoplifting case or who knows but he was there on another issue. he heard gunshots and he did what every police officer is trained and paid to do and we can't thank them enough for their courage and willingness to do something like this. he ran to where the shooter was, engaged him and apparently took him down but not before these nine people at least were injured by gunfire. >> we all have respect for these guys. they run into the line of fire while the rest of us runaway and there's no doubt if he hadn't got there when he did, they could easily have been more casualties, more death.

i'm grateful to the allen police department, i'm thankful he was willing to put his life on the line. we can never thank him enough for what he did. jon: has off to our men and women in blue across the country. police chief does say they believe the shooter acted alone. there were initial reports that there may have been a second gunman but that speculation says they believe the shooter acted alone. the governor general paxton said allstate resources will be available to local police departments as they try to handle the scene. can you go into detail about what they might need and what the state is going to be able to provide to help process this? >> local police are often limited in resources and manpower where state police have thousands of people working for law enforcement so they don't

have the resources, investigative to help the prosecution so there is no limit to what they can provide help with in that request. jon: we are seeing some video from earlier of shoppers, a certain amount of panic and maybe confusion, leaving his area with their hands in the a air. a final thought from you, general paxton as we hear the numbers, at least nine people wounded. there are some people who have been killed in this terrible shooting at the mall in allen, texas. >> no one expects this, no one should have to deal with this. a sad day in texas for the country, families have lost loved ones for no real reason, no good reason.

we will never know the full story because the shooter was killed and it's a sad day. jon: it certainly is. attorney general ken paxton from the great state of texas, appreciate your time. >> thank you. jon: casey stegall is not far from the mall where all of this transpired. we did get one of the answers there which is the police believe this shooter, whoever he might be, acted alone but there's a lot of other information available and you can understand why. >> that's right. they wanted to come out and make sure they got the information out directly, there was not an active manhunt underway or anything like that but also, of course it shows there is no longer a threat to the public which is always a big concern. especially when you consider look over here, i don't mean to

do that to you, breaking news. let's change it up, this is a neighborhood. just borders the actual shopping center so you can imagine the folks living in these houses or apartments further down the road, how writing that must have been for them to hear there was an active shooting situation at the premium outlets across the way and suspect on the run potentially but we know the suspect was neutralized quickly by officers but no less, still frightening and when people don't know what's going on and as you heard, ken paxton saying this is such a nice, safe community. it takes a lot of pride in that and this is something you certainly don't expect to happen in this part of texas, frankly.

in this particular city because it does have a great track record so we are seeing these people that have walked through, haven't seen any recently because the crowds are thinning out because i did speak to a woman not long ago who told me police advised her it's probably going to be until tomorrow before she's able to get her vehicle so she was worried about that. she says she has a tesla and worried about getting it overnight but no doubt they are happy they are okay knowing some families right now are dealing with entirely different situations so some of these people are just realizing it's not going to be anytime soon, maybe not even till tomorrow before their lead in in the perimeter is released. that's why this is going to be

going on for some time. some people are even getting goobers or calling their family members to pick them up since they were not able to write h home. the woman we talked to said they did not here physical gunshots, didn't hear. [background noises] remember, this is very big, a large center. i will have to look into the numbers as far as how many square feet it is, how many acres but it's so large that this is going on on one side. these woman were shopping another so they didn't know what was going on until word spread and there was pandemonium and she said they locked the store down that they were in and they escaped out the back door and that is the story we heard from a number of eyewitnesses out here, the stores themselves went into their own emergency protocols and some of those

include pulling gates down and things like that. unfortunately, is something practiced now just like kids practice active shooter now in classrooms. they practice for these things at places like malls as well so a lot of people hiding out for a short time and escaping out the back door, that's what these women did but another press conference they said expected in about two hours from now so that will be 8:45 p.m., 845 p.m. eastern and hopefully have more information but we don't know the exact number of fatalities. all they said were nine patients were transported to the hospital that they knew of meaning official ways by ambulance or whatnot. there may have been other victims that drove themselves to the hospital and they just didn't know those numbers yet. jon: we will look forward to the

information coming from a news conference later on. thanks very much, casey stegall reporting live from the scene in allen, texas. bernard is the former special agent in charge of the bureau of alcohol, tobacco and firearms. we know atf agent did respond to the scene, what's going to be the role as the crime scene is processed? >> the prime ejectors to support and make it as least chaotic and resources to get the community back in order, to get support from officers and help them with the investigation. most important, resources can be used for the immediate impact happening right now in terms of victims and anything else to get restoration of the community. >> we are talking about this one eyewitness report, all employees

who said 50 or 60 shots fired. sometimes in your experience, do witnesses simply overstate that or does it sound like a realistic number to you? >> very possible. the thing to remember about these active shooter events, they are statistically unique and wanted to get away and that is the shooter basically looks like a human being but they are really not. they don't have the same responses response, so people might have the opportunity to survive because the physiological response, unless you've been trained, military will -- training doctrine getting that out of people so it sounds like the response was

great in terms of law enforcement responding because they have one single mission which is to stop the shooter. people took steps for their own survival which should be improving in the country, as these things continue in terms of education and every venue. jon: there is a hero police officer who definitely deserves nations thanks as a result of hearing gunshots running to them and taking down the shooter. bernard, former special agent in charge at the atf, thanks for your expertise. let's check in once again with steve rogers, retired detective from the new jersey police department. a little more information here since we started this broadcast a little less than two hours ago, a shooting that took place a little more than three hours ago at this mall in allen, texas. your final thoughts as we wrap up coverage this evening?

>> we have some questions that have been answered but there is a question that will never be answered. that is, how many lives that officer saved as a result of his or her heroic deeds, his or god for that. jon: is incredible, visiting some other case. here's the gunshots and runs toward the gunshots. bernard was talking about, most of us here something like that, we either freeze or run away but authorities, men and women in blue are trained to run toward the sound of the gunfire and take on the shooter and that's what happened here. >> absolutely right and the officer could have walked right into a person with an automatic weapon without regard for his or her personal life. think about that. god bless our officers every day of our lives were we can walk streets rather safely in this country because they are willing

to give up their lives for us. jon: defund the police has been such a movement in this country the last couple of years and situations like this, to me, show the lunacy of that line of thinking. >> instead of defunding, how about praying for our police? that's what they need. jon: that very good. steve rogers, former detective at the new jersey police department, frequent guest here on fox. let's check in one last time with ted williams, retired d.c. homicide detective. we are seeing scenes you've probably seen many times in your career, the confusion and fear on the face of these people as they evacuate them all after this terrible shooting has taken place. we know there are at least nine victims, nine people taken to hospitals. we still don't know how many have been killed and how many wounded but give us your final thoughts. >> we are witnessing again today

over and over again, american tragedy where americans and their children and their friends and their parents want to go out and have a good time at the mall and it's over and over again we found what have been some individual or individuals who have wreaked havoc on their lives and under those circumstances, we've now found out here you may have children who may have lost their lives and we have individuals not coming home tonight. it's a very sad situation. i'm happy we have some information but there's so much more information i think the public needs. we are heard nine victims and perhaps individuals taken by private call but we do not know

anything about the casualties. i'm sure some states it will give us a summation about these casualties. but again, another sad day in america individuals, innocent individuals have lost their lives at the hands of the shooter or shooters. jon: has off to this hero cop, man or woman, we don't know but police chief said one of his officers was there on another case, heard gunshots, went running to them and shut down the shooter. it sounds like almost instantly. >> this is what we see happening all over this country. law enforcement officers running toward the danger. you and i would immediately run in the other direction. these are brave men and women we

need to take our hats off and complement them. every time you see a police officer, we need to be able to say thank you for your service because those law enforcement officers serve and protect us and one other slave officer neutralized the shooter, that shooter very well could have taken out a few more individuals but it was a brave hero or she are zero. jon: we don't know what the situation was but we expect we will find out more, there's another news conference planned for later this evening and perhaps we will get some ans answers, some of them not so

pleasant. ted williams, thank you for being with us this afternoon. again, you're looking at the aftermath of this mall shooting. allen premium outlets in allen, texas. thirty-five, 20, 30 miles north of central dallas. the man knows much more about that area, lives there and will get more information, let's toss it over to lawrenc the gunshots, responded to the scene and took out the shooter first joining me now from the ground outside of the allen premium o