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alert, eight victims killed and seven others hurt after a shooting at an outlet mall in allen, texas, yesterday. [gunfire] [inaudible conversations] [gunfire] rachel: the gunman was shot and killed by a police officer or who just happened to be nearby while responding to an unrelated call. pete: alexandria hoff joins us with the latest. >> reporter: good morning to you. this is a terrible hinge to wake up to the. at last update, three of the injured victims remain in critical condition, four have been described as stable, and our fox affiliate in dallas reporting of those who received hospital treatment, their ages ranged from 5 to 61 years old. of course, not everyone made it that far. >> our rescue task force teams found seven deceased individuals on scene. we transported nine individuals

to the hospital to the area trauma facilities. of those that we transported, two have since died, lee are in critical -- lee are in critical surgery and four are stable. >> reporter: the scene was described as i gruesome and chaotic when just after i 3:30 yesterday a male shooter reportedly wearing all black opened fire at the allen premium quote let about -- outlet about 30 minutes north of dallas. >> i heard gunshots, and we just all rushed to the back. we were all freaking out, what's going on, what's going on. i had to go back to the front and lock door, that's when i saw cops coming in, helicopters coming in, s.w.a.t. team was coming in. i was, like, hey, what's going on? this time service the for real, you know, we all got in the back. >> reporter: everybody still in a state of confusion, shocked panic as you see there. the police officer was already near open-air mall responding to

an unrelated call. here's allen police chief brian harvey. >> at 3:36, our officer was on an unrelated call. he heard gunshots, located the gunshot, located the shooter, neutralized the shooter, neutralized the threat. we believe at this point that the shooter act alone. >> reporter: texas governor greg abbott released this statement, quote, our hearts are with the people of allen, k the, during this unspeakable tragedy. state and local leaders, offered the full support to the assure all assistance and resources are swiftly deployed. a possible motive in this shooting has not been released. will, rachel, pete. will: thank you, alexandria with. a sad story that hits home for many of us including retired dallas police officer trey penny who joins us now.

trey, as you hear the news, what do you make of this incident in allen? >> i'm extremely heart broken by what happened in allen, texas. but more of a personal note, i have a friend -- i received a call about 3:35 yesterday from him frantic. i mean, he's a police officer in another city, and he's calling me about his daughter that's at the allen mall, and they barricade themselves along with ten other people inside of a storage closet, and he could hear the gunshots in the become. and he's frantic trying to figure out what's going on, i'm grabbing my gun trying to shoot to the other side of town so we could get there. look, it was horrifying for all of us. and, look, the bottom line here is we cannot continue to allow this to happen. this is hitting home. there's no way we should be constantly worried about these shooters being able to attack us while we're out shopping and being with our families. that is not going to cut it.

look, i know we've given a lot of credence to the our second amendment laws x i'm a pro-gun right guy, but we cannot allow criminals to be running around with guns, with body with armor and not know who they are. look, we had officers that responded, i talked to a couple of officers. i mean, look, i don't know -- people that have not, police officers that have not worked a scene involving kids, it's one of the most tragic scenes to ever work, that anyone could ever see. you don't lose that. so these officers are going to be dealing with mental health issues for the foreseeable future with dealing with dead babies, and that can't happen anymore. i think it's time we start looking at mental health laws, start looking at, you know, gun protection laws. we've got to do what we've got to do to make sure the right people have the guns. pete: tre, police aren't saying much about the shooter. they're saying he's not from

that area which could mean a lot of different things. do you have any sense -- and to your point, i mean, when you often the this is the thin line -- when you talk about the, this is a thin line. you're a supporter of the second amendment, now you're willing to look at different measures. what do you mean by that? because mental illness is a real problem, but we don't know anything about the mental state of this shooter and whether or not they would have passed a background check as well. >> absolutely. that's the fine line. you're hitting it right on the nose. background checks. we're going to have to. look, i'm a police officer. i love my gun, but i don't want a person running around beside me with his gun. he starts shooting, i don't know that he's unstable at that time. he's got the potential to take out me and my whole family. no way. we've got to know who these people are. i've long argued for looking at behavior. we want to mitigate these risks. we need to have -- and you know what? we're going to find out once the fbi gets into his online data and they find out what his

habits were, we're going to find out whether this person announced his intentions. and another part of that is when these attackers announce their intention, they typically tell you what their motivations are, what their grievances are and what heir going another. they're going to do. the problem with them posting this information online is that these companies have no mandate to communicate with law enforcement, so we need policies. the last two years i've been testifying before the u.s. house judiciary, testifying before the state judiciary trying to get them to do something to prevent these type of shooting attacks from happening, but nobody has moved, and that's why i'm going to be doing everything i can from the inside, i'm going to be the running for congress to make sure we are protecting our police and our community. rachel: you know, tre, i totally agree. i think everything needs to be on the tabling the, and we as citizens deserve to though what are the moted vegases and factors -- motivations and factors. there's a manifesto for a mass

shooting against christian children and adults at a christian school? tennessee, and for some reason we still haven't, that still hasn't been released. i think we ought to look at the issue of fatherlessness. we as also need to look at weed. we know that cannabis increases psycho cease by five times. -- psychosis. including maybe improving background checks, but thank god there was a guy with a gun there to take this guy down. >> look, i have -- look, this is the other side of the defund the police movement. when you have police able to respond, they're able to to meet that aggression of the suspect at scene. so we have to have more police. we have to get more people, more police officers funded, and we have to make sure that we're protecting these officers while we're trying to get them to come on to these departments. we can't have officers worried about facing criminal liability charges for use of force. we've got to the move away from that. you saw right after the george floyd riots where a lot of police officers here in dallas,

here in austin, the, a lot of police officers started getting indicted. for use of force. we cannot have that because you're not going to have police coming into the profession if they think they're going on the prosecuted for doing their job. will: tre, thank you so much for being with us. rachel: thank you, tre. i've often said i believe we need to see the blood tests, what are the prescription if drugs in the bodies and in the systems of these people. what are the drugs, cannabis, for example. what is going on in their home life? we need to know this, and it seems like there are certain third rails, there are certain things that we're never allowed to talk about when these incidents happen whether they're on the subway or in a shopping mall. will: i'd love to follow up with this throughout the morning is this description of him, as you pointed out, he is not from our community, not from allen. like i said, that could mean he's from plano, which is next

door,ed the also mean he's from iran. who knows what that means, he's not there our community, but with right now it seems an important mote. the second is, i think, pete, you said it's the line. and the truth is the line that tre was discussing, to me, isn't really one about guns, but one about sort of this idea of how we can predict what someone will cobefore they do it. pete: yeah. will: he said we don't want criminals running around with guns. no. the question is, was this guy a criminal. had he done anything before. we don't want people with mental health issues running around with guns, correct. how do we know? you post something crazy online, that's going to the take away a second amendment right there half of america. rachel: and by the way -- will: predicting the future is the line. rachel: you can't put people in, it's very hard to commit people. a lot of people writing to me are saying, listen, i know someone in my family who has a mental illness, and you saw the

aunt of the person in the subway, for example, who said we tried to yet him help. yeah, you can find somebody who to has, you can identify people with mental illness, but then what? will: hard to take away rights, and it should be. pete: it should be. that's why in these moments are reflexively you want to say do something. okay, what? you can't eradicate evil out of a human heart. something went wrong for this person horribly, and they committed a heinous act. so now with we lose the right as a result or we get more restrictions? ultimately, it was a good guy with a gun that took this person down. rachel: it's true. pete: that remains to be true, and it's families and people around those folks half to identify the warning signs more than anybody else. there's no good answers. rachel: great point. pete: speaking of no good answers -- [laughter] joe biden did an interview on another network, msnbc, on friday, and he was actually asked a question about hunter

biden. service a soft, easy -- it was a soft, easy question. how does he feel about the swirling of legal challenges that hunter is facing. here's what joe said about his son on friday night. >> sir, there is something personal that's affecting you. your son, while there's no ties to you, could be charged by your department of justice. how would that impact your presidency? >> first of all, my son has done nothing wrong. i trust him. i have faith in him. and it impacts my presidency by making me feel proud of him. [laughter] will: we all laughed in studio. i did in my office when i read the line. rachel: right. you're not big guy. pete: no, no, nothing to do with you. unbelievable -- rachel: yeah. that definitely popped out. also i'm proud of him. i've seen the pictures online of hunter biden with the hookers, i'm sorry, that's really hard to say -- pete: it's a pretty basic backstop line at this point.

what else is he going to say? it's his son -- rachel: how about not take him to the ireland? pete: i mean, i guess, but he's got a default setting. i mean, not talk about business dealings with my son, i'm proud of him. will: that big j, quote, journalism in my head, even if she's skeptical, she made the affirmative statement as though there's proof, no ties to you. oh, really? can you prove that, big j journalist? rachel: yeah. it's not like the fbi went and talked to bobulinski after he said there was ties. there's so much evidence pointing towards this including 51 journalists -- i mean, i'm sorry, 51 national security intelligence guys who now have, we now know through e-mails that said we need to give them a talking point. pete: yeah. that statement says i don't want to ask you this question, but i really have to because there's enough bubbling-up reports that i probably should.

this has nothing to do with you, i'm going to check a box, tell us how much you love your son hunter. okay, next topic. that's how much attention you get from other places. will: joe biden's proud of hunter, there is reportedly tension in the white house regarding hunter. here's what axios is reporting, top aides to to president biden have clashed with hunter biden's team over strategies for dealing with the republican concern political ballots. without involving the top aides to hire or abby lowell in december. hunter's previous lawyer had takenful we're going to have miranda devine a little bit later, 6:50 a.m. eastern time, to dive in -- as she always doe, investigation aren't hunter biden. rachel: she's been amazing on this topic. pete: reports are hunter wants to go on the offense, he wants to go after his critics. what's he going to go on offense about? rachel: yeah.

pete: no, i won't show you the other things that aren't on my laptop? rachel: well, i think you just hit on it. i think they're also angry that he went so aggressively to say he doesn't have money in this child support case because now -- pete: he may have to show -- rachel: yes. she's really smart. she said, hey, i want to see the laptop because the laptop says you have all this money from ukraine and from russia and from china. it says you have more money thai want to know about the painting- pete: the art. rachel: you got me a print. he gave hunter biden $20. pete: i contributed to the hunter biden legal defense fund? rachel: you just did. [laughter] but all of that, they're mad that he pursued that. you should have just paid your child support because that's bringing more attention to the laptop. all right, we're going to turn now to your headlines. a california panel approves a

reparations proposal of up to $1.2 the million for each black resident. wow. but with yesterday at a heated public if hearing activists demanded more than $200 million payments. the decision is ultimately up to the state the lawmakers -- pete: each. rachel: right. it's still unclear how the state would pay for it. will: really? [laughter] rachel: all right. a cloud of tragedy hung over the churchill downs yesterday before the big race after two more horses were hurt and then euthanized. seven horses died in this weekend drawing further criticism of the sport that's already dealing with a fallout from doping scandals. the deaths are still being investigated, but the 149th kentucky derby did go on as plan with this exciting finish. watch. >> on the inside -- coming to

the final 16th, and it is going to be -- to win the kentucky derby! rachel: madge winning with 15 to 1 odds coming there behind in the final stretch. by the way, if any of our listeners, viewers know why they have to euthanize the horse, i'm still curious. do you know? pete: i think i have a theory. rachel: what is it? pete: you can't control a horse that wants to move, that wants to walk, to it's going to rebreak. and the broken leg, the hip is never going to the heal because the horse always wants to move. and as a result, it's going to get infected and worse, so the only option -- rachel: the horse whisperer. thank you, pete. all right. and charles iii is crowned king yesterday in britain's first coronation in 70 years. the royal family gatheredded at westminster abbey to see the new king as a large gathering of onlookers crowded the streets of london to celebrate the historic

day. the prince and princess of wales sharing behind the scenes video showing the family as they witnessed charles and camilla become the king and queen. kate and william's three young children, george, charlotte and louie, who stole the show getting lots of love from the crowd as they took part in the day's events. i was here in studio watching that and pete and will were home watching the patriot. [laughter] pete: were we? if. will: what? rachel: were you watching the patriot? doing something more person? [laughter] pete: just hanging out. we did end up facetiming at some point though. rachel: okay. pete: all right. straight ahead, fox news alert, fox protesters jump onto subway taxes fighting police over the chokehold death of jordan neely. an attorney breaks down the potential case for self-desense -- defense. will: plus, countdown to chaos as title 4 # expires in just four days.

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will: protesters in new york city jumping onto subway tracks while clashing with police over the death of a homeless man placed in a chokehold by a

marine on a subway train last week. lawyers for the a marine suggest the act was in self-defense as a grand jury could get e the case this week. an attorney joins us now. >> good to see you, will, thanks. will: good morning. what do you make of the legal potential back and fort on the -- forth on the criminal front for the marine and whether or not this was a criminal act to hold the homeless man in the chokehold that ultimately resulted if his death? >> well, ultimately, what the grand jury is going to be tasked with is determining whether there was a reasonable basis to believe a crime had been committed. and that's's a very low burden. we're very, very far from beyond a reasonable doubt territory there, and there's a very famous saying that a grand jury could return an indictment on a ham sandwich. so simply because he is charged with a crime does not necessarily mean that the charges will stick or that it will ever see the inside of a courtroom. we saw that with alec baldwin

recently. but what the grand jurors are going to have to figure out is whether hay believe that his conduct was reasonably justified in light of the circumstances. and that's where the witness testimony and the witness, what they've told the police is going to come into play because to determine whether the conduct was reasonable, we need to know more about what actually happened on that train, and there have been witnesses that spoke to the media that have said that he was threatening people, he was saying he was hungry e and thirsty, but more significantly saying he doesn't care if he goes to the jail for life, that he doesn't care if he lives or dies. so that's going to be scary for people on a subway train, especially you're trapped underground at that point. so the media has made a lot of the fact that he was a michael jackson impersonator and less of the fact that this is a frequent flyer with the criminal justice system. will: give me an example, what potential type of crime are we talking about that could be charged for the marine? >> could be anywhere from

involuntary manslaughter up to murder depending on whether they believe that his conduct was reasonable. i mean, the george floyd officers were convicted of murder. so it just really depends on other things that is we don't necessarily know like how long he was held in the chokehold, what was going on around him. so we're still waiting for all this information although there have been conflicting reports about whether it was 3 minutes, which i think it actually was 3 minutes, but then some outlets are saying 15 minutes. again, we don't have a ton of information yet -- will: always good to the remind everyone that we don't have all the facts when we talk about what could happen. >> right. will: but it appears that the marine, his last name is penny, daniel penny, could make an affirmative defense of self-defense. when mr. neely began aggressively threatening the passengers, daniel with the help of others acted to protect themselves until help arrived. daniel never intended to harm mr. neely and could not have

foreseen his untimely death. it's all beginning to factor in. i am curious, i'm just, i feel like i anecdoteally have heard things like this, is the fact that penny is a marine and that he has training and maybe even some training in this type of -- we don't know the facts around him as well, what he might have learn even within the military or his own personal life, he may know something about chokeholds, does that raise the bar for him? does that make it so, you know, prosecutors or a jury can go you should have known better to hold this particular type of maneuver for that long? how does that play in? >> i think it could actually go either way. obviously, i've heard that too, that the fact that he's a marine, he should have known better. he knows the effects of a potential choke hol. but by the same oak then, you could also say this is a person who served our country who was trained to help when people are in need, so it made it even more reasonable for him to to is step in and act. so is i think it could actually

play either way in terms of whether his conduct was justified. will: lexie, this conversation right here is the one that should be had, this is what the story is actually about. everyone else is going to pin off it has to do with -- spin off it has to do with race, and this is actually what a court of law is going to be discussing, which of these details and facts add up to what was reasonable in that moment. appreciate you jumping on with us this morning and having the real conversation about this. >> thanks, will. will: all right. up next, title 42 the ends week. border patrol wives have witnessed the chaos firsthand. how they're preparing for the surge. plus, an interview you'll only see on fox, the must-see sit-down with the last known living witness to germany's world war ii surrender. >> eisenhower didn't think they were going to to sign it, you know, so he didn't come in that room. the french, the british and the russians and the germans -- will: his incredible story as we

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fever, and tiredness. if you switch to cabenuva, attend all treatment appointments. every other month, and i'm good to go. ask your doctor about every-other-month cabenuva. rachel: we are just four days ea away from the expiration of title 42 the leaving the southern border open to the an unexpected flood of illegal immigrants. our next guest has had to the face the surge firsthand all living right along the texas border in mexico, with mexico. here with more on how families are preparing is our panel of border patrol wives. u.s. congressional candidate irene jackson along with allison anderson and re name. i want to thank all three for being with you. irene, what do you expect to happen and how are you preparing in. >> well, we're expecting the floodgates to just completely be

wide open. we already have thousands of people gathering on the mexican side and, unfortunately, as we see every evening and every morning there is already thousands of illegals coming in. what we are doing here is sounding the alarm in el paso and making sure that especially the people that live right by the border, i'm talking a few hundred feet away, are ready to protect themselves. unfortunately, this government's hot going to do it for us -- not going to do it for us, so we need to make sure that american citizens, that taxpayers are protecting themselves. rachel: yeah, i mean, it's a great point, irene, but that's a carry point a ooh. you saw what happened to that rancher in texas when tried to protect his wife, and now he's in jail or facing murder charges. it's a catch 22. the government's not doing it. if you protect yourself, you might end up in trouble and look like the criminal. >> yes. and one of the things that actually i know myself as a wife

and mother, i'm concerned about officer safety as well. you know, when the surges happen like this, the majority of their time is spent processing. which means they're pulled from the front lines where they are needed, and so, you know, often times there's not enough agents, and so if there is a crisis, then an agent is in need of help, it can take a very long time because a lot of the agents are processing, you know, the thousands of people that are coming over. so the main concern for me is safety for my husband. rachel: yeah. >> you know, that's a big, a big concern. rachel: it's such a great point, you know? people are processing and not able to get to the agents, but also the agents are processing and not guarding the border which is another issue for the country at large. allison, we've already herald from so many people -- heard from so many people who live along the border that social

services, hospitals are already overwhelmed and that they're not able to serve the community because of this. now you're going to see, i think, a top official at the border patrol told congress an extra 10,000 per day coming through the border is what they expect. what's going to the happen to your community? how are you preparing in terms of basic needs that you need? >> yes, ma'am. i think they, you know, i live in del rio, and we've already gone through this with what happened with the thousands of haitians on port of entry where we saw our community's resources completely exhausted. and we're at a point where just the smuggling pursuits that are constantly happening, we have dozens and dozens and dozens of them a week, and they are exhausting in one wreck, an entire month's worth of resources, emergency resources here. what happens when one of the citizens or one of our neighbors or or one of us needs an ambulance? all of those resources are tied

up somewhere else on a highway assisting illegals and a smuggler that have wrecked and that are breaking our laws, but, i mean, for us too all of this is creating such chaos where we are one property away from the river, and on our property we have what's known as the gotaways, and it's constant. i recently got into a confrontation with a smuggler on our property. i mean, i'm worried about what is to come for our agents. they are the ones that are putting on these uniforms and risking every single day, and this isn't fair. they're not asking for this. they shouldn't have to endure this. this is wrong. this is wrong. and it could be changed based on simple policy changes, but yet here we are. i listen to mayorkas' speech the other day in brownsville, and all i heard was statements about how they were going to lift, the plan was to lift the burden on these illegals that are coming here, but what about the united states' citizens that have to

face the burdens? we can't even -- i have to worry every every single time i say good-bye to my kids and put them on the school bus because we have pursuits on the one highway they travel on to get to and from their school. i shouldn't have to live like that. and matter of fact, we almost had our friend die along with his 7-year-old son yesterday while they were leaving their property because a smuggling pursuit, a dps pursuit, the smuggler went off road and almost hit the truck and trailer that the 7-year-old son was sitting many and veered, almost ran over our friend and went right through the fence and kept going miles through the property with barbed wire and fence posts attachedded sill to the truck, and the group bailed out. nobody that i know of, none of them got caught last i heard. like, this is what we are facing every single day. rachel: yeah. >> and it's not once a day, it's constant. so, yeah, safety is a big concern for me too. i wore -- worry about the types of people that are coming through and the fact that we're

not going to have the agents in the field because they'll be tie up processing and transporting again. rachel: well, ladies, you bring reality, and i wish that our president and our vice president would go down and see what you're experiencing every day. thank you for your service. you're all serving along with your husbands. and good luck, irene, on that congressional race. we definitely need some people who care about the border -- >> thank you, rachel. rachel: -- in the u.s. house of representatives. thank you for joining us, all three of you. >> thank you. rachel: all right. straight ahead, a fox news alert, a victim's dead in a texas mall massacre as we learn more about the gunman who opened fire. a man who rush ared to the scene because his family was there joins us next. ♪ ♪ they have you surrounded. take your lawn back with scotts turf builder triple action! gets three jobs done at once - kills weeds. prevents crabgrass. and keeps it growing strong.

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which means you can blend up nutritious smoothies, protein shakes, or frozen treats, just about anywhere! recharge quickly via usb-c. it even cleans itself. order yours now from blendjet.com and bring a little disney into your life. [gunfire] will: we're back with a fox news alert, a horrific tragedy in texas where 8 victims were killed and at least 7 hurt after a gunman opened pyre in an outdoor mall yesterday afternoon. pete: our next guest rushed ott scene when he realized his pregnant sister was shopping there. dominic joins us now. thanks for being here. >> absolutely.

pete: describe the scene your family faced and what you were going through. >> i had just gotten a call that she was there shopping, that she was safe and was hiding in one of the stores. you know, i have three boys as well, my youngest son's a junior at allen high school and plays on the soccer team there, and, you know, watching the videos that were coming out and hearing everything, it was, it was -- i was terrified. yeah. i'm still kind of in shock. haven't slept much. will: dominic, i know you live in mckinney, very close to allen. did you make it? did you get there in time? what did you see see when you arrived on the scene? >> yeah. so as soon as i saw law enforcement were starting to, like that video you're showing, allowed people to get out, my wife and i actually went over there immediately and we picked her up. i just saw, i mean, if i had to

guess 1,000-2,000 people that were standing in the hot sun. it was 92 degrees. and at one point i even as i was pulling up as close as i could get to the scene, i looked to the left and there was a 9-month program pregnant lady just laying on her back on grass. so that's e when i got my sister-in-law, we came straight to my house and then on my way back home i called my next door neighbor, gary morgan, who just happens to be do our friend, him and his wife and family, and i said, gary, we've got to do something. i need you to go to my house, i've got ten cases of water in my garage, grab my ice chest, and i'm on my way. so as we got home, i dropped them off, and we got into his truck and went right back up there with the water. we stopped and got like, i don't know, ten bags of ice. put bags on there, went up there and just pulled up and started handing out water to the

everybody. it was, i mean, people just crying, hugging, being united with their loved ones. it was something that i'll never forget. rachel: dominic, that is american spirit. you saw a immediate and you immediately said i'm coming back to help out because it's hot and they're thirsty, and they're waiting out there for people to pick them up. how is your sister-in-law doing? five months pregnant, this has to have been so traumatic especially in her condition. >> yeah. she's doing well. she's doing well. a little bit shaken up, obviously, at first, but she's doing okay, thankfully. will: glad to the hear it. com nick, thanks for stepping up, and we wish you and your family the best. pete: thanks, dominic. >> thank you so much. pete: coming up, california is one step closer to granting reparations to black residents. the proposal that could cost the state more than $800 million. that's on the low end. rachel: yeah. and with a possible indictment

on the horizon, this is president biden's response when he was finally asked about hunter, his son. >> my son has done nothing wrong. i trust him, i have faith in him, and it impacts my presidency by making me feel proud of him. rachel: miranda devine says he's setting the stage to pardon his own son. she's next. ♪ ♪ when covid hit, we had some challenges. i heard about the payroll tax refund that allowed us to keep the people that have been here taking care of us. learn more at getrefunds.com. ethnicity inheritance. nigerian east central from you. benin. my dad's side. 30% japanese. thank you, mom. there's just still so much to discover. now on sale for mother's day. if lawn care were easy, everyone would do it... as well as trugreen does it.

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>> sir, there is something personal that's affecting you. your son, while there's no ties to to you, could be charged by your department of justice. how will that impact your presidency? >> first of all, my son's done nothing wrong. i trust him, i have faith in him, and it impacts my presidency by making me feel proud of him. pete: joe biden is says hunter has done nothing wrong, he's proud of him, as prosecutors close in on a possible indictment of the president's son after a 4-year investigation into his tax and gun violations. here to react, new york post columnist, hour and fox news contribute miranda devine. miranda, thanks for being here. this is the default setting of joe, i think, at this point. i don't know anything about his business dealings and i'm proud of him. and hen you look at what the

reporter said, has no connections to you, it's all so -- [laughter] befitting the situation they're in. what do you make of his response in this most recent interview? >> look, obviously, rehearsed. and the plan for joe biden is to just remove himself entirely from the influence peddling operation that he's involved in with his son hunter and his brother jim, pretend that it has nothing to do with him and that hunter is just being persecuted in a political witch hunt. and i think, you know, that's probably the only way he can do considering he's lied about his involvement since before the 2020 election. and it will work for him, those americans and there are still many of them who believe that e joe biden, that his only sin is that he loves his son too much.

that mythology of joe biden that's been around for more than four decades which is that he's a loving family man, moderate democrat, lunching pal joe is, working class joe, the poorest man in congress and a wonderful family man because of the tragedy in his own life. that's what he's playing on. and i think the end game is that he's setting up, framing this sympathy card so that when it comes time during the lame duck period that he will pardon hunter. and americans will forgive him because they will say, well, hunter was a drug addict and, look, joe just loves his family. he's been through enough tragedy in the his life. pete: so draw it out as long as possible, ultimately knowing that a pardon is something he could do at the end of this term or down the line, that's really

interesting. but the hunter biden team maybe sees it a little differently, miranda, because axios is reporting there's clash between hunter biden's legal team and the white house. hunter wants to go on the offense, the white house wants it to go away. here's a portion of the article. top aides to joe biden have clashed with hunter biden's teem over strategies were dealing with the legal battles. the tensions led hunter out without involving the president's top aides to hire a prominent lawyer in december as part of a plan to take a more combative approach than hunter's previous lawyers had taken. because it surprise you hunter wants to go on the offense here? >> no. look, i think from hunter's point of view he feels he's done nothing wrong. and remember, in his laptop he says he gave half of the money to his father, that he was basically acting as the bagman for the operation. so he just wants to save

himself, and and he has kevin morris who's a capable attorney, hunter's former -- [inaudible] call him his sugar brother because he paid off the irs back taxes and paying for his $20,000 rent in malibu. and kevin morris is encouraging hunter to save himself. he's been an advocate for hunter and not worrying about biden and the white house. and, of course, the white house -- [inaudible] imperative is to the protect joe biden. pete: yeah. conflicting priorities, for sure, for one family. miranda devine, thank you so much for your time. >> thanks, pete. pete: all right. we've got a big show still ahead. one, two, three, four, five, six guests i see there and more. plus, dave the stage manager. stay with us.

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pete: straight to a fox news alert, eight people were killed and seven others hurt after a shooting at an outlet mall in allen, texas, yesterday. will: the gunman was shot and killed by a police officer who happened to be nearby respond ogg to the an unrelated call. rachel: alexandria hoff joins us with the latest. good morning. >> reporter: we don't have a clear picture right now of the victims, who they are, who they were or the shooter, for that matter. we do know that one local hospital reported their facility a had treated victim between the ages of 5 and 61 years old. service a gruesome and heartbreaking scene for first responders to arrive