42, and emily will join me. we have some food to talk about. >> are you bringing food? >> maybe we should. >> it's about dinner time. >> i'll bring the chick-fil-a, or just the chick. we'll watch you tonight at 8:00 p.m. eastern. thanks everybody for being with us. when you can't be with us at noon eastern, dvr the show. here is "america reports." >> we are not negotiating on this. we have been very clear. it is their constitutional duty to take action. >> america should pay its bills. and avoid a catastrophic and dangerous default. that's not a partisan position. >> i think we should pay the bills and then negotiate. >> there is no plan b. our plan is for congress to act to address the debt limit without conditions, just like they have done 78 times in the past. >> sandra: for months now the white house has refused to meet with republicans on the debt ceiling and now that is about to

happen. hello, welcome, hello to you. >> john: john roberts in washington, this is "america reports." any moment now the white house will take questions ahead of today's pivotal meeting in the oval office, time running out to avoid the u.s. defaulting on its debt. >> sandra: coming sooner than many had predicted, charles payne is standing by. >> john: jacqui heinrich is live, where the briefing is pushed back by 15 minutes or so, and jacqui, the president has touted his ability to reach across the aisle for an agreement. what's changed? >> jacqui: they are not negotiating leer. the president campaigned on being the uniter in chief refuses to negotiate, even though he always touted how well he worked with the other side during his 50 odd years in washington. and despite his own past votes

against raising the debt limit over concerns about too much spending. in 2006, he wrote because this massive accumulation of debt was predicted, because it was foreseeable, because it was unnecessary, because it was the result of willful and reckless disregard for the warnings given and the fundamentals of economic management, i'm voting against the debt limit increase. in the five years he's been in office, president bush has added more to the debt than presidents before him. the white house has been referring to the house republican bill that would raise the debt limit and cut spending as the default on america act and if you didn't know better, you might think it was the real name of this piece of legislation, it's not. even though this bill does not get into any of the appropriations details, the white house has been really pushing fear messaging, saying that it would result in cuts to agencies like the fbi, border patrol, dea, even veterans

benefits, even though republicans did take that issue off the table. the house speaker just a little while ago did express some hope, though, heading into this meeting. take a listen. >> this meeting at the white house, what are you hoping for? >> i hope it's different than it's been for the last 97 days. february 1st, i went to see the president, sat down with him, saying we should work on the debt ceiling, so we wouldn't -- unfortunately 97 days to come back. >> jacqui: some rumblings the white house may ask mccarthy to do a temporary debt ceiling increase and punt the discussion about the budget to the fall. mccarthy just told reporters it's a nonstarter, don't want to kick the issue down the road. the president's schedule is not indicating there is much hope for progress here. he's slated tomorrow to rail against republican spending cuts and slam them at an event. so, that would indicate probably that we are going to leave here

today without much progress. but we will see, john. >> john: rushing ahead into 32 trillion of debt, a lot of people say it's time to put the brakes on. thanks, jacqui. >> sandra: charles payne, set this up for us, big meeting a couple hours from now. this is the meeting that the white house refused to have, ok. but now we are quickly approaching this deadline. it affects all of us. what are you watching? >> we are watching, the market, whether we come close to failing to pay our bills. the street is relatively calm but everybody knows it can get out of hand. what you are seeing right now, the seeds are being planted and as we get closer, it's going to be exponentially more pain, more agony, more fear. a great opportunity, really, for the white house to try to get this thing done.

ok, i know you have a campaign event you want to go to a district where you won, they want to use the political fodder they have. how funny to hear democrats say in america we pay our bills. the same party that wants to put billions of dollars so the richest americans don't have to pay college debt, want the rent thing forever, moratorium, the supreme court had to step in for that, if you've been terrible with your finances and you have a weak fico score, we'll give you a bonus. if you did the right thing, you'll get punished. if you are rich, give 7500 to buy an e.v., and with the white house, public relations first, execution last, public relations first. high tailed out of afghanistan and did it the exact opposite way in school.

women and children first, military last. instead of saying we missed up, p.r., p.r., p.r., and a dangerous game, we'll see some sessions where the market is down a lot. >> sandra: art laffer was on the program yesterday and he also said this is a very dangerous game of chicken. here is art laffer. >> i think they think it's political gains or something like that, biden is going to hold true and -- that's just not good stuff to scare the american people for political advantage. >> sandra: the political back and for the has been something to watch. i'll let you tell us who is right, who is wrong. these are just some of the white house claims we are about to get the white house briefing, you could hear more of this. the white house claims they would cut veterans benefits, shrink benefits to local police, and

cut dea and border patrol staffing and make finding addiction treatment more difficult. some republicans responding to the claims, listen. stefanik says joe biden and democrats are looking shamelessly lying of veterans benefits and politicizing the v.a. to do so. chip roy says biden is lying about the gop debt ceiling plan. why? he doesn't want americans to know the truth, his rampant spending is fueling inflation and policies hurting our veterans. your response. >> i agree with all of those things and the notion of the border and fentanyl with the policy, open border policy, allowed the crisis to fester and a couple days exponentially worse is beyond the pail. i think administration thinks a lot of people don't read beyond the headlines and throw it out there and point fingers, again,

at some point you need to be the president of the united states and put political posturing aside. and by the way, it's not working. you saw the poll out, the confidence in joe biden when it comes to the economy, when it comes to well-being, will president biden do the right thing has absolutely cratered, so this game of chicken keeps backfiring, and chip roy got it right. people realize the policies have made their lives worse and if it goes haywire, he may have the media on his side a little while but if it goes haywire and things end up like 2011 when we lost our credit rating, i think ultimately it's going to sting the white house more than republicans. >> sandra: janet yellen says economic chaos could ensue in the country if the decision does not happen, if they don't come together on the meeting. and dow is off 41 points right now, you said things are kind of quiet. and interestingly so, this meeting, take note, scheduled at

4:00 after the markets close. so the markets will have some time to digest whatever comes out of this. >> right now overwhelmingly wall street believes sanity will prevail and we'll go to the last minute and there will be a deal cut. >> sandra: thank you for that sanity, thank you very much, charles. >> you've got it, thanks. >> sandra: see you at 2:00 on fbn. >> john: the market will have a full 18 hours before it has the dry heaves. doj has announced they have dismantled a russian cyber program used to collect sensitive info from hundreds of infected computers across 50 countries. prosecutors say 20-year-old snake malware, one of the most sophisticated cyber espionage groups in the world and stolen secrets from the united states and nato allies. uses hot points across the world on other infected computers and was operational all the way up until yesterday's takedown. the dam is about to break, that's what sources are telling

us before title 42 expires in less than 48 hours now. migrant shelters already stretched beyond capacity and it's about to get worse. multiple sources say the biden administration is ordering all border sectors to begin mass releases of migrants throughout the united states to help alleviate overcrowded facilities. bill melugin broke the news, live in brownsville, texas. what are your sources telling you beyond this? >> bill: the contacts i'm talking to are frustrated with cbp. they put out a press release announcing they were going to run an operation with ice today in el paso with sources telling us they were going to go after illegal immigrant got aways and evaders on the streets. we went out to el paso this morning, there have been thousands of these evaders who are sleeping on el paso streets, so cbp puts out the press

release warning everybody that hey, we are going to be out there ru authorities start giving out pamphlets, warning them hey, if you are a got away, you have been evading, turn yourself into border patrol, asking themselves to turn themselves in. >> i don't know who gave me this, had no identification, they had a gun and a badge. but i don't know. i'm not going to turn myself in. >> i was asleep on the floor when all of a sudden they wake us up to give us these pamphlets and the truth is we don't know what it meant, don't know why, do they really want to process us or return us to mexico or to our home countries? >> so after cbp sent the press release out last night, i started getting multiple messages with sources from border patrol and ice who were furious about this, they said

you don't advertise an operation that you are going to run, you put out a press release with the results of the operation. they say they essentially gave away the element of surprise here by announcing they were going to go after got aways and the president of the border patrol union is furious, take a listen. >> please forgive me, i'm extremely upset right now. this is when activism takes over law enforcement that should never happen. you do not give up to criminals where an operation is going to take place before it happens. if you do that, the criminals know all they have to do is flee. >> in the meantime as we wait for thursday with the dropping of title 42, migrant camps in mexico are continuing to swell. take a look at this drone video we shot just across the river from here in the rio grande valley. thousands housed in this camp, waiting for title 42 to drop so they can cross illegally.

one venezuelan man had just been expelled via title 42, he is planning to cross illegally again as soon as he gets the chance. take a listen. >> this is the only option we all have. there are a lot of people that have been here 4 to 5 months waiting on the app. i've been doing two months in this journey. if i have another opportunity to cross the river i will cross it again. >> and the situation at the border patrol is quickly approaching a breaking point. the president of the border patrol union says right now border patrol has almost 30,000 migrants in custody, only capacity for about 10,000 and that is why we are being told by cbp sources that mass street releases have been authorized across all sectors of the border if and when ngo facilities are overrun as well. back to you. >> john: this is going to test mayorkas' repeated declaration that the border is closed, it's

secure. sandra, more on this with the former head of u.s. customs and migration, and a rancher in texas deals with it every day on a personal level. >> sandra: affected by this, every hour of the day, so many different ways and covering here. two prisoners, one charged with four murders on the run after a daring jail break. wait until you hear how they did it and how long it took prison workers to find out. >> john: karine jean-pierre set to take questions from reporters any moment now, just one day after her office banned a "new york post" correspondent from attending an event with president biden. is the white house cracking down on the media as the walls close in on the first family? a few thoughts about that, and up next. >> it's a bad look for this president and this administration at this point. this is the most protected, least accessible president of

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>> this is just about being fair. it's about being fair. god bless you all, may god protect our troops, thank you. >> john: president biden making good on his joke at the white house correspondents association dinner, refusing to take questions from reporters after his speech yesterday in which his press office banned a "new york post" reporter from attending. critics say the move was retaliation of the paper's extensive reporting on hunter biden's legal issues. the front page, as possible hunter indictment looms, biden bans post from event, leaves press seats empty and takes no questions. ben, editor at large of the "spectator," good to see you.

it's been a while. the "post" said this, or got an email from the white house said we are unable to accommodate your credential request, the remarks will be livestreamed and viewed at whitehouse.gov. thank you for understanding. we will let you know if a credential becomes available. we have seen over white houses some reporters are iced out for asking a question the white house did if the like or thought was pertinent, but this seems to be direct retaliation what "the post" has been covering regarding hunter. >> it's targeting, and because of the reporting they have done over the past several years that has been borne out by the facts, john, it's good reporting, held up under scrutiny and one of the things we should understand and the larger scheme of things, something else that joe biden said at that press dinner that you referenced, how important the freedom of the press was and how much they were dedicated to the release of journalists who

are currently imprisoned overseas and a number of different circumstances, obviously particularly wall street journal reporter in russia right now. >> john: austin tice. >> as well, and i don't think the white house understands when they do something like this, it only helps the narrative of leaders overseas, vladimir putin, that says we agree the press is the enemy here, we should be able to treat them as the enemy and we heard a lot about the threat to journalism under donald trump, i don't think that was borne out in any way, shape or form. i think we are seeing a threat to journalism in front of our faces from this white house and going after an entity, one of the most prominent in american journalism, they are reporting things that are true that they do not like. >> john: i thought it was interesting the "washington post" realized the lack of press conferences was unacceptable in

an editorial. james comer is promising revelations, suggesting "judgment day" according to comer. comer has had a lot of smoke but has not made public the backing documents. does he have to deliver tomorrow? >> i personally hope he does deliver. you should not make claims putting things out of your skis, we saw it with adam schiff when it came to the last presidency. but james comer -- >> john: plenty of evidence of russian collusion. >> he's seen it, he says. james comer, i want to see what he has. these are questions that should have been answered much earlier in this process, i think, and really under the past congress there was an obligation under democrats to even look into this. but of course, partisanship took over and they were not interested in going after the legitimate questions of the nature of joe biden, relationship to the payments

that have gone through hunter and other questions as well. we now have multiple whistleblowers, you know, within the administration, both at the irs and within the doj context. those are whistleblowers we need to hear from, what evidence they have, what they have put out there and the sooner we get it, the sooner a resolution. joe biden says nothing to see here but i don't think the american people have any confidence. >> john: slightly less than 30 seconds, but deadline for doj to respond to the subpoena, do you expect they'll comply? >> i've asked my contacts on capitol hill, they do not expect they will comply and i do not either. >> john: i would be surprised if they did. >> absolutely. >> john: ben, great to see you. sandra. >> sandra: the israeli military releasing this new footage from airstrikes targeting islamic

jihad commanders in the gaza strip. will there be retaliation for that? live to the middle east. >> john: will tim scott and ron desantis move the needles in the polls? asa hutchinson has announced his bid, he is up next on who he believes is his biggest rival for the nomination. >> i think both sides should debate, right. like chris said, it's part of our process. and there's so much going on domestically and abroad, people need to hear from everyone who is running for office. >> agreed. together we provide nutrients to support immune, muscle, bone, and heart health. yaaay! woo hoo! ensure with 25 vitamins and minerals and ensure complete with 30 grams of protein. ♪ introducing astepro allergy. now available without a prescription. astepro is the first and only 24-hour steroid-free spray. while flonase takes hours, astepro starts working in 30 minutes. so you can

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when you add an adjustable base. only at sleep number. >> so i would refer you to the government of pakistan for any further information on that. >> secondly, as part of the debt limit talks, the u.s. chamber of commerce called for an agreement that includes discretionary spending caps. does the white house see all spending caps as a negative or

just part of the house gop bill? >> the president will have a conversation with the four leaders as you all know, happen in a couple hours at 4:00 p.m. local time clearly, and we are going to stay focused on what the congress needs to be doing here. their congressional duty, which is to prevent a default. that's what we are going to be clear about. it can cost almost 8 million jobs, if house republicans get their way. they have to do their congressional duty and that's expected not just of him but of the american people, i'll leave it there. >> and then lastly, writers guild of america tweeted out the president saying he wants the striking writers to get a fair deal. >> i'm just going to reiterate what, echo what the president said last night from his

yesterday's remark, we sincerely hope that the writers strike in hollywood gets resolved, and the writers are given the fair deal they deserve and as soon as possible and that is what you heard directly from the president yesterday. >> on their side? >> i think his words from last night make it clear where the president stands on this issue. >> given the conversation that is happening today, that it is not negotiation made very clear, how is the president going into this -- how is he viewing success in this? what would you consider to be a successful meeting. conveying the message to them? >> look, what we convey as success, people have asked, will the president give speaker mccarthy an off ramp, an exit strategy. exit strategy is very clear. do your job. congress must act, prevent a default. that's what a success -- not for him, it's not about the president, it's about the american economy, it's about the american people. that's what the president view as success, that's the way it should be done. regular order, this is regular

order. what -- house republicans are saying is that they want to potentially, if they get their way, threaten their -- the country's first default, something that has never happened before. that's what they are threatening. again, it could lead to trigger a recession. 8 million jobs potentially lost. that is what they are threatening. so, it's very easy, it's very, very simple, do your job, go back to regular order, do what you are supposed to do, it's been done 78 times since 1960 and that's what he's expecting from congress. >> speaker says the president is ignoring the problem. >> the president is not ignoring the problem. we have the four leaders who will be here today at 4:00 to have this conversation. the president has been clear since february, since february he has said over and over again we cannot be a country that defaults and most recently he has said we cannot be a deadbeat nation. something that we have never

done before, never done before. and so they need to take action, congress has to do their job. super simple. they are -- they are manufacturing, manufacturing a crisis. >> on immigration, the mexican president said he had plans to talk with president biden this morning. has that conversation taken place, can you give us -- >> i can confirm the president spoke to the mexican president earlier today, we will have a readout later on and that will -- we'll share that to all of you. >> postpone his foreign trip to deal with the debt ceiling. >> the president can be a president anywhere, doesn't matter if it's domestic or international, he is always president even when he travels. look, this is something congress can take care of today if they choose, do their job, their constitutional duty. >> what happens after today's meeting from your standpoint, will you set up more meeting or a one-off? >> i'm not going to get ahead of today's conversation,

discussion. the president hopes it's a productive conversation. the president will make it very clear to the congressional leaders they must act and avoid default. >> some estimates there are 150,000 migrants waiting to cross the border when title 42 expires. is the u.s. prepared to deal with this onslaught? >> as you know, steve, i've said this many times, said it yesterday. let me give you guys an update on the briefings that are coming up, the state department and department of homeland security will be holding a call on our plan later today. secretary mayorkas and the state department will also be holding press conference tomorrow and secretary mayorkas will be joining me at the podium on thursday. we want to make sure that we are transparent about the plan, how we are moving forward, he'll be here to certainly take all of your questions on what's -- what's ahead, but we have been very clear, we have a multi-agency process, we believe we have a robust process to deal with what is going to occur

after title 42 lifts. we are using the tools available to us because congress refuses to do their job when it -- as it relates to the border. again, a system broken for decades. >> senator manchin sharply criticized the president's handling of the debt ceiling talks. he said it's not rational, it's not reasonable, it's not practical in terms of his refusal to negotiate over raising the debt limit. what's the white house's response to that and to what extent does it weaken the president's position to not have democrats in lock step? >> it's not rational -- it's not reasonable and it's not practical for congress to do what they are doing, for house republicans to be holding this up for threatening default. that's where the problem should be, and that's who should be called out. speaker mccarthy is going to be here and he, you know, what we are seeing from house republicans, maga republicans,

is that they are making -- they are manufacturing a crisis that shouldn't be. that shouldn't be. the president doesn't want to see this happen either. he doesn't want to see our economy held hostage. he does not want to see this. that's why he's having these leaders here and he's going to make himself very, very clear. and that's the discussion they are going to have and you know, i'm not going to get ahead of what's going to come out of that, we'll see. >> given how unified republicans have been around speaker mccarthy, do you have any concern about, you know, democrats not, you know, may be some waivering about the president's position of the debt ceiling? >> democrats have been very clear as well that we need to deal with -- deal with the debt limit. we have been all very clear about that. so has leader jeffries and so has leader schumer. we have been all on the same page republicans in congress need to do their job and that's what we are going to see today.

>> in terms of the situation on the southern border, there have been -- yesterday there were nearly 10,000 migrant encounters on the southern border, 27,000 migrants currently in cbp custody. i know the administration, you guys talked a lot about the surge that you anticipated after title 42 would expire. did the administration expect there to be a surge before and how is that going to impact your preparedness if there is still another surge expected after may 11? >> so what you can expect from us is that we are going to do everything that we can and use every available tool to us as we have been to deal with this issue in a humane -- humane way. manage it humanely. and that's what we have been very clear about. our focus, as the relates to managing the border, with diplomacy and that's what you have been seen and just few tools available to the

president, you know. and that's because congress has failed to act. so right now we believe we have a robust plan, multi-agency plan to do this in a humane way and we are going to have secretary mayorkas here with us in the briefing room on thursday and he'll certainly lay out the plan in a more deeper way and more in-depth way, you'll be able to ask him the question, he was is he border recently, he's held multiple press conferences on the issue, you've heard from the state department, heard from the homeland security, and pentagon did a briefing last week and we are going to continue to inform the american people and all of you how we are moving forward and that's what you can expect from the administration. >> you anticipate the current numbers we are seeing right now? >> i can't get into hypotheticals about the numbers, it's not something i'm going to do here. what i can say is we knew clearly, we knew from the court title 42 was going to lift on thursday, that is something we were very aware of since earlier

this year. we have put plans in place and processes in place to deal with this very moment. and so that's what you -- i can only speak to what you can expect from us and we have been very transparent about that, and will continue to be. >> speaker mccarthy said he doesn't support a short-term debt ceiling increase, let's get this done now, he told reporters. does the white house agree with him, with the speaker on this point? >> short-term extension is not our plan either, that is not our plan. it can be easily resolved. this is a man-made crisis that the speaker is leading. can get this done. we want to make sure we move the threat of default and that's what the president is going to be making clear about. this is not negotiable. >> writers guild strike that the president waded into, he wants to see a fair deal. what is a fair deal in the

president's view? >> we are not going to get into a back and forth what a fair deal looks like, we will encourage both sides to come together, to come to the table and have that discussion. i'm not going to get ahead of that. >> thanks, karine. i wanted to ask secretary mayorkas is going to come speak with us, thanks for that. what about the president, will the president speak out about title 42, share a message that mayorkas is given, or you know, something to that effect? will we hear from the president on title 42? >> you heard from the president this past friday, he did an interview, sit-down interview with one of the networks and talked about title 42, talked about immigration, so the american people did hear directly from the president on this issue. i don't have anything else to share in the next couple of days about the president's schedule, so i'll just leave it there, but he was asked a question and he answered it. >> should americans anticipate or expect an orderly process on

the border or is the administration want americans to know this is going to be a challenging moment and there could be some hiccups or there could be some challenges and to give a little bit of patience as the transition is made. >> look, what we have been very clear about, we do want to put a process in place that's orderly, that's humane, and using the tools that the president has in front of him to do just that. i've said very clearly we want enforcement, deterrence and diplomacy. the three steps we are taking to get this done. there are challenges at the border, something the president has taken seriously from day one, putting forth a comprehensive piece of legislation to deal with immigration reform, something that has been a problem for the past several decades. the system has been broken for the past several decades. and again, the president would like to do more. he's using the tools in front of him, congress refuses to act. instead, many republican officials want to make a

political case out of this. they are not looking to meet us at the table, to actually deal with this issue, they want to turn this into a political stunt. and so that's not what we are trying to do, we are trying to deal with this issue, deal with this challenge and again, we have been doing this since day one. >> can you say what will happen if congress doesn't act on the debt limit? speaker mccarthy has a budget, the president has not moved his position, will he let this fall off a cliff if the speaker doesn't do anything? >> speaker has to do his job, congress has to do his job. the president -- historically 78 times since 1960 this is what congress has done. they have done their constitutional duty is to deal with the debt limit. that is something that they have done. this is regular order. this is the process that they have used, and we are asking them to go back and to that process. and look, what -- what could

potentially happen as i just laid out is a potential recession, 8 million jobs lost. that is something that congress could avoid. they can easily avoid this and do their jobs. so, i'm not going to get ahead of what's going to happen today at 4:00 or get into hypotheticals from here. but the president has been very clear. he has been very, very clear. they have to get this done. and what they are threatening and what they are saying to us is we have to take their whole entire agenda, which is extreme, a lot of americans do not agree with that agenda, or they are going to hold the economy hostage. that's what they are putting forward. remember, a lot -- 22% cut on veterans, on healthcare, on meals on wheels, all of the things that we have listed out over and over again, americans don't agree with that. and it's going to hurt american families. so we are going to be very clear, the president is going to be very clear with the leaders today that they have to act. >> in talking about two subjects

where congress has not acted, one is immigration and you are saying we'll use all the tools available to us but congress refuses to act on the border. also so far have not acted on the debt ceiling, i'm trying to figure out what will happen if they continue to not act and closer to the deadline, as early as june 1st or as late as august. does the president think he has any tools to use if congress continues to not do the job. it's not clear speaker mccarthy -- he has a lot of leeway. >> that's for speaker mccarthy to speak to. i cannot speak about the leeway. i hear you, you mentioned speaker mccarthy, i cannot speak for him. i can speak for the president and it is congress's job, and i get your question, josh, but literally their constitutional duty. they take an oath and what they are supposed to do. they are supposed to deal with the debt limit. one of the many things they have, that they are supposed to deal with, and this is something that we first-ever default what

they are threatening, saying they want to take us down the road on, this is -- first ever default would trigger recession, the exit ramp is do their job, do their job, the president will make that very clear in his meeting. not going to get ahead of what's going to come out of the meeting but the president has been really, really clear here. >> going back to steve's question, when the president does leave for japan and australia next week, he's not slated to return until just before that june deadline that the treasury secretary has talked about. if we get to next week and there is no plan in place to raise the debt ceiling, will the president delay or cancel his trip? >> so, nancy, appreciate the question, understand the question, i'm not going to get ahead of today's meeting. let's see how the meeting goes at 4:00, certainly our goal here is to make sure that congress

does its constitutional duty and prevent default. not going to get into hypotheticals. see how the meeting goes. it's going to happen shortly at 4:00 and see what comes out of that. >> who is going to handle the discussions from the white house while the president is overseas? >> well, look, the president could be president anywhere. these are issues that he will be very aware of and very involved and getting updates from his team. as you know, the office of -- when it comes to legislative things and things that are dealt with congress, that's the office of leg affairs, they play point on this. but the president can be president wherever he is, domestically or out of the country. >> should the vice president be involved in today's meetings, since she'll be here in the country while the president is away? >> the president is closely -- has been closely consulting with the vice president on this. they have had several conversations on this issue, and so again, when it comes to issues that matter to the american people, they are very

much partners. >> what message does it send to the world that we are three weeks away from a potential default and it is still completely unclear how this is going to be resolved. >> the united states is not a deadbeat nation. the president has made that very clear. we have never failed to pay our bills and we should not do this now. congress must do its job and prevent a default. and look, this -- if there was a default, it would be a gift to china, to russia, and to other competitors. that's what we are seeing here, that's what house republicans are saying if they were to default, it would be a gift to them. let me give you a bit about what the director of national intelligence said, the head of the intelligence community. she testified and said the following. both russia and china would look to use a default to demonstrate the chaos within the united states that we are not capable

of functioning as a democracy. default would create global uncertainty about the value of the u.s. dollar and the u.s. institutions and leadership leading to volatility in currency and financial markets and commodity market priced in dollars. china and russia would look to take advantage of the opportunity if we were to default. that's what congressional republicans are threatening. that's what they are potentially going to really put us into a tailspin if they don't actually do their jobs, really simple, do their jobs and avoid default. >> economy, the public often holds the president accountable for the outcomes here. does the president have a sense he will be blamed by the american public if default actually occurs? >> so, republicans are holding the entire economy hostage, and saying unless their entire agenda gets done, they are going to cause an unprecedented

default. what the president is doing is the opposite of that. he wants to make sure that we take that off the table and have a separate conversation, a separate conversation on the budget, something that he put forth on march 9th, shows how he values the way moving forward, what accounts to show how he sees our economy moving forward. building on the successes he's had these last two years, making sure we cut the deficit by $3 trillion the next ten years. to your question, i have an answer to your question, polling from 2011 and 2013 makes clear that congressional republicans were to blame for the threats to default and polling now shows americans want spending and default handled separately as does the president. that said, when it comes to threatening default, people should not be looking at polling. they should be looking at how they are going to be delivering for the american people. they should be looking at their constituents whose jobs and

retirements could be crushed by recession, if they -- if this is truly going to move forward in the way that they seemingly want to go, which is manufacturing a crisis. so, again, you know, this is something that the president wants to avoid, he wants to make sure that this is not on the table, that we take default off the table, and that's a conversation that he's going to have very clearly with congressional members today, leaders today. >> there have been other instances of brinksmanship on capitol hill with government shutdowns and the public has seen that, seen 11th hour resolution to things. this is the very different beast in terms of potential negative impact as you pointed out, never happened before. do you think the public has a sense of what is at stake for them, their retirement accounts, their job security, the overall economy, and do you anticipate the president will have to speak out about this in a -- in a bigger way than the daily communication that he's done, or that you speaking on his behalf?

a speech to be had, a moment coming? >> the president is going to go to new york and visit a district he won in 2020 and talk to americans in the district and have a very clear conversation and be -- lay this out very clearly as he's done many times. i mentioned the polling in 2011. >> nighttime where i was going with that. wasn't clear, i know he's going to new york. >> totally understand. i mentioned polling from 2011 and 2013, congressional republicans were blamed by the american people what they tried to do in those two instances and the president is going to continue to talk about this. don't have a nighttime primetime speech to lay out or preview, but let's see what happens at 4:00, see how the conversation goes and you know, we have been very clear, secretary yellen has been clear, the president has been clear, many economists who work here in the administration has been clear, businesses have

been clear, this would be catastrophic and it does not have to happen. >> john: we are going to jump out here after listening to karine jean-pierre talk mostly about the debt ceiling and immigration, again accusing republicans of not doing their jobs, but the republicans have passed limit save grow act, one and a half trillion dollar raise in the national debt. they just put that down here is our position, now let's talk about it finally, the president will talk about it and results of that later on. meantime, that really sets the table for sandra and her guest. >> sandra: thank you, john. presidential candidate and former arkansas governor asa hutchinson. we have been chatting. a remarkable moment when the president's press secretary would not commit to the president supporting any spending caps. does he support any spending caps? that was -- that was very

telling. >> it was extraordinary and i did sit there and listen to this white house briefing, which was not any new information, but to have a hard line is unreasonable in these circumstances. you take any two business people in america that have a dispute, you put them in the same room together, they are going to come out -- resolve this very quickly. all we need is a framework as to how to reduce federal spending in the future, which is an extraordinary national challenge for us. we don't have -- >> sandra: governor, we need facts. where are they spelling out 8 million job losses that would ensue, where is the economic team? that's my question. we are listening to karine jean-pierre and she's obviously trying to do her job. isn't this an urgent moment where the president's economic team should be up at that podium taking questions? >> it's an urgent moment and it's also something that is resolveable. the white house has made a decision they want to use this as a political wedge point. they want to divide, they want

to name call, maga republicans and put the blame there and where -- as all it takes is a framework as to how we are going to reduce this. this is something that is resolveable. the united states cannot default on its debts, everyone knows that, we cannot do that. >> sandra: the republican plan does not default on the debt. >> no, a plan in which they have presented how they would extend the debt and how they would provide a budget that would reduce spending in the future. the house has done a job there and now the senate will engage on this, but the president has to meet them in order to resolve this and to give other nations confidence that we are going to continue fulfilling our obligations as a nation. >> sandra: also just want to note, jacqui heinrich is in the front row, her hand up the whole time, not called on, 22 empty seats, banning a "new york post" reporter, limiting the questions the white house is getting on this, attacking the maga republicans without defining what that is. you have democrats like joe manchin saying it's not

practical, not rational. the huge meeting at 4:00 today. a final thought on you running for president. it's a long shot. how do you win? >> avoid distractions and keep your eye on the ball, the problems that americans face, whether it's the extraordinary border security issues and the influx in the coming days when title 42 is lifted and when you talk about my experience working on border security issues, drug enforcement issues, that's the case that you have to make for the american public. we've got a ways to go but are not distracted like some of the other candidates are with a whole host of other issues, we are focused on the real problems of americans. >> sandra: governor appreciate you joining us here in new york city. great to be with you. >> john: always good to see the former governor. now the border, laura allen is a rancher in texas, dealing with illegal immigrants coming across her land a long time, you are in

a fairly remote area of texas, a place northwest of del rio, favorite place for drug smugglers to come across, favorite place for the so-called got-aways to come across. your area is where people who don't want to get caught like to cross into the united states. what do you expect is going to happen as of thursday along the whole southwest border area? >> well, hi, john. thank you for having me, and you know, i think what we are preparing for at this time is just that -- it's going to be a lot of chaos. we are already seeing an increase in traffic, we are seeing gates open, we are seeing, you know, the usual trash left behind, fences cut, there's just a whole variety and bad activity has increased exponentially this past week. >> john: we have some pictures you provided us of the fences cut, as the migrants pass through the areas. some have come up close to the ranch house. have you and your family felt

threatened at all by what's happening down there? >> you know, the ranch has been in the family for a long time and we -- we accept the fact that we are going to have to deal with illegal immigrants that are going to come through. the nature of the illegal immigrants coming through now are much more scary. they carry weapons and in fact, one of the pictures you are putting up, there are two gentlemen in the picture and it's kind of hard to see but the gentleman in the back is carrying a gun. so our concern and we have been advised by border patrol, by every law enforcement, don't confront them because nine times out of ten they are going to have weapons also. >> john: you have to make sure the family is safe above all. laura, i'm sorry, our time got cut short by the briefing there, but hope to catch up with you next week after title 42. >> absolutely. it will be very interesting. >> sandra: new at 2:00, the

pentagon set to brief as u.s. troops head to the border with the end of title 42 quickly approaching. is their deployment too little too late, and democrats war on appliances not slowing down. could they be coming for your dishwasher? garrett and dagen are here on that, and more as "america reports" rolls into a brand-new hour. elt more energy in just two weeks. uh... here i'll take that. ensure max protein with 30 grams of protein, 1 gram of sugar and nutrients for immune health. ♪ i'm jonathan lawson here to tell you about life insurance through the colonial penn program. if you're age 50 to 85, and looking to buy life insurance on a fixed budget, remember the three ps. what are the three ps? the three ps of life insurance on a fixed budget are price, price, and price. a price you can afford, a price that can't increase, and a price that fits your budget.

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