♪ ♪ howard: well, it seemed like a good idea at the time time, desantis the launching his presidential campaign on twitter with a friendly elon musk chat. what could go wrong? how about 26 minutes of mostly silence? >> so, let's see. >> [inaudible] >> i think we've got -- [laughter] just a massive number of people online. it's, servers are straining somewhat. howard: they finally got a live stream going, musk, desantis

and a moderator. he praised each other and bashed the mainstream media. >> no shortage of hit pieces on you in the press over the last week or two. >> i thinks this is a function of these, the legacy media, these corporate journal -- they're in their little bubble. >> i saw a headline from the atlantic basically claiming that anyone who listens to this space on twitter basically a nazi. howard: but by then they'd lost half their audience, so why did ron desantis roll the dice on twitter not blowing up like a spacex rocket? he's hardly a big fan of the mainstream media and not a great can orator, so he made the digital bet. the coverage of musk, who's been hated by left-wingers and admired by right-wingers. i mean, look at in this disgusting "vanity fair" headline, ron desantis the will formally announce with elon miss you can because apparently david duke wasn't available.

i'm howard kurtz and this is "mediabuzz." ♪ ♪ howard: ahead, finally a debt ceiling deal, but is the press too quick to assume it will hold? from the right, from the left, ron desantis' twitter fiasco is the talk of the town. >> his live twitter announcement with elon musk, that did not go well after twitter had one technical glitch after another. but ron desantis is hugely popular. >> it really was an embarrassment for the desantis campaign. i mean, they said it broke the internet. they ended up with 200,000 people watching, listening. >> of course, it's not desantis' fault, that's on the tech guys at twitter. >> trump had the golden escalator, ron desantis got the world's most embarrassing 404 error. howard: and there were zero glitches when the florida

governor spoke to fox's trey godden. >> you know, as president, i'm going to make sure woke ideology ends up in the dust bin of history. howard: joining us now to analyze the cover a, ben domenech and in los angeles, leslie marshall. both are fox news contribute us. -- contributors. ben, it was a disastrous lawn. putting that aside, what does, excuse me, what doesnd ron desantis get or not get by aligning himself so closely with elon musk? >> well, i think just to back up a second, i'm not sure it was as disastrous as people think -- howard: because so many journalists were getting impatient? [laughter] >> one of the things that's going on here and we have on aware of this, we're obviously here on cable news talking in this forthe mat, and i think that what we saw in 2016 in particular was that donald trump would use twitter and social media in ways that drove cable news coverage. howard: yes. >> i think that with ron desantis, we're seeing a

different approach, we're going to see a different approach where it doesn't necessarily dovetail to what cable newsers are saying. by the way, point out to joe scarborough, you can't watch a twitter space, okay? but this is the thing that i think the overall takeaway, that bet on aligning yourself with elon musk and twitter certainly was manager that did not lead to think kind of a smooth launch here. howard: yeah. >> and i think what you obviously could have done is have a big rally in florida, in a football stadium and then gone off stage and had this same conversation -- howard: right. >> that, i think, would have been a much better way to do it. but ultimately, everybody was talking about this, and sort of, you know, put a lamp shade on it. howard: desantis raised a lot of money, about $8 million. leslie, what does musk, aside from the technological black eye, get there essentially backing desantis? and does he now look like more of a partisan conservative? [laughter] >> now look like a partisan conservative? howard: okay. >> he's always looked like a

partisan conservative -- howard: except he's -- >> more and more people on my side left twitter and will continue to leave twitter -- >> no, no, no, he's not always looked like a partisan conservative. if you rewound just, i would say, eight years or so, he was somebody who was being hail for making electric cars, someone with who was, you know, caring about climate issues and the like. he was not viewed as -- howard: and he only voted for democrats, including joe biden, until now. but go ahead, leslie. >> yeah. it was the up until now, i mean, that we're talking about now, right? that's where i live, not in the past. i'm talking about since before he took over twitter and then when he took over twitter. he's endorsed other republicans, he even told people to vote republican prior to the midterm election, so he has certainly appeared more conservative. i think as a businessman the really hurt him because, first of all, there were a number of people who left twitter who loved donald trump to go to truth social, more people who see hill as the front-runner are

going to leave twitter because he looks like he's cozying up to ron desantis, and more people on my side of the aisle who haven't already left twitter are going to leave now as well. 200,000 people is nothing compared to how many people you would have with national television, and ben is being polite, it was a failed launch. it was a bad decision. howard: okay. even if everything had gone well, it's audio only. there's no video on played on the television. ben, i was able to get on a call with the governor, and he criticized donald trump a lot for running up the debt $8 trillion in his four years, on immigration saying trump as nominee would drive up -- excuse me, drive up turnout among chem until accurates. you and i -- democrat cans. you and i were arguing a few months ago, at that point he was ahead in some polls, so cleary i was right. [laughter] but now that he's doing it publicly, will it move the needle? >> i'm not sure that it's so much that he is going to move the needle on it as i think there have been a lot of people waiting to see how he would do

it and and improving the approach he's going to have, essentially to make the argument that donald trump's ideas, his policies were a lot of things that i supported for the most part -- howard: yeah. >> you cited some exceptions -- howard: [inaudible] >> but he wasn't able to get these things done. i am essentially the guy who gets things done. when i promise you something, it will actually happen. hey, or you promised a wall, i want a wall too, i'm the guy who can get that for you. and i think that is an approach that, you know, is an interesting approach. it's one that, you know, i think, going to be a policy-based one, and i wonder as things inevitably get more personal as they always do with trump, how he's to going to deal with those types of attacks. howard: leslie, national review's rich lowry, he's not dead can yet, not exactly the headline you want when you're launching a presidential campaign, but he goes on to say that desantis the needs to

tell a story the about himself. when they did get to the twitter chat, they got deeply into policy, but it got pretty wonky for the average person and, i think, got kind of dull. >> well, he may not be dead yet, but he might be when donald trump gets done with him. i think it's sad that in 2023 we are actually saying these words, and i like and respect rich, that it doesn't need to be about policy. it should be about policy. it shouldn't be about people's wives or children. and that's where it goes. it does become personal. donald trump makes it personal. and that's what donald trump will do when ron desantis tries to put policy to him. so he may not be dead yet, but in the -- look, when donald trump comes into the rooming he sucks all the oxygen out of that room. and that's one of the reasons he's the front-runner. he does it mast masterfully, and he is going to, i think he's going to the just, it's going to be like a cement roller when it comes to personal attacks on a stage when they're all up there debating, and ron desantis

will be another one. howard: we'll see about that. view from the desantis camp these national polls don't mean that much especially this early and it's about polling in iowa, new hampshire, south carolina and other early states. ben, you know, it's very obvious desantis the has been in fights with "60 minutes" and with nbc, can't stand the mainstream media. and musk increasingly castigates "the new york times" as propaganda. but even in a republican primary, is that a good route? is that partially a winning message? [laughter] >> i absolutely think it's a winning message. i think it was a winning message for donald trump. it's also been something that boosted campaigns at various key points in history, you know? it's probably his feud with the media is one of the reasons that newt gingrich won south carolina back in 2012 the, you know? it's been proven to be time and again something that's beneficial within the context of a presidential primary. but there's something else, i think, or going on here too which is that as you have seen people crop their different, you know, subscriptions and the like, turn to a streaming kind of approach to consuming media

and choosing really to listen to different sources, the power of these older institutions has faded as gatekeepers for conversation. so the truth is that he doesn't need to go on these programs, he count need to sit down and engage with these people the same way he might have had to a few cycles ago. howard: leslie, if desantis avoids cnn, mbc, "the new york times," so forth, isn't he limiting his own message to get his ability out? trump hated cnn for seven years, and then he did the town hall. >> i would respectfully disagree with ben on this. you don't want a piece of the pie, you want all of the pie. and the number one reason people vote for an individual is name recognition. i know it's hard for us, we here three and others, many people watching, probably most watching who live in a sense in a political bubble and we know all these names, but not everybody, you know, throughout the country know the names of all these

individuals. certainly, they know donald trump. and one of the reasons they know a donald trump is because he was a celebrity before he entered -- howard: sure. >> of that's not the case for ron desantis'. howard: i agree. >> if i was advising himming i would say get on everything, talk to everybody. howard: people may know the name, but hay don't know much about him, especially personally. ben, desantis really went after this piece on his wife casey. why would they liken her to lady mcbeth and have all these anonymous sources trashing her as blindly ambitious, more paranoid than he is? she's obviously a very close add adviser as well as the first lady of florida. >> you know, i'm not surprised by this at all, but this is one more reason why his campaign is going to avoid engaging on these issues, because they don't view them as actual journalists, they view them as people carrying water for his opponents. and they also view a lot of these entities as being as much

as they ideologically differ with donald trump, invested in his success because the last time that he was the nominee, they raked in the money from the views, from the hit counts, etc., that he attracted, the eyeballs that he attracted. and hay view desantis has not having that same ability to translate to profit. and i think this hit piece, with by the way, it was ludicrous. it was such a silly piece, it was totally baseless, and it's one of these things where, you know, i'm sorry, every conservative woman has had to experience some kind of hit like this at some point in their career can, usually when they are entering the main stage and people are threatened by them. howard: right. >> and this is something -- and always one or a dufus or an idit with, clearly they're going the villainous route. howard: well, people can read the piece and make up their own mind, but i thought it was really unfair. when we come back, the press rooted for tim scott until he

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howard: tim scott is generally gets good coverage because most journalists admire his personal story, but when the senator announced his presidential run, he was dismissed as a long shot. >> we live in the land where it is absolutely possible for a kid raised in poverty this a single-parent household, in a small apartment to one day serve in the people's house. >> what will you offer voters that former president trump will not? >> well, the question is, i'm running for president. period. i man to win. >> if you listen to senator scott, what's interesting is that he is optimistic. he is upbeat.

he's a great communicator. >> tim scott is following the same paradox as all the other republican candidates which is how do you beat donald trump when donald trump is a cult-like figure in the republican party at this momentsome. >> i don't understand the tim scott thing. nice guy but nice guys finish last. >> it seems like tim scott is treated differently and worse than other historically significant people on the left. howard: so, ben, coverage of tim scott, the only black republican in the senate, generally quite positive. his grandfather dropped out of elementary school to the pick cotton and now saw his grandson elected to congress. but the pundits say there's no way he could win. >> well, i mean, if you're asking if he can win, of course, i think he could be a competitive campaigner, but it's stack thed against him. a big part of tim scott's message is this kind of unifying, uplifting message that seems very much a creature of the politics of perhaps a decade ago. it doesn't necessarily seem to fit the current moment --

howard: the trump are republican partiesome. >> -- culture war and all sorts of things that fall into that category. i also think it's ridiculous to say that you can write off anybody particularly at this point. he's the only u.s. senator who's running, and he's from a key state. i think we have to give him the credit as being somebody who could perhaps overperform. howard: leslie, he won't utter or a negative syllable about donald trump as we saw in that interview. >> yeah, that's going to be problematic for him because donald trump is not going to care about his allegiance to donald trump in the past. and, you know, look, there's a couple of things. donald trump is attacking you, or you're going to invite -- pence is going to have this problem. nikki haley, she's talked out of both sides of her mouth with trump, but she's going to have this problem as well. everyone on that sage is going to have the problem. anybody who has 1 or 2 at at this point in time, i know we're more than 500 days out from the general election, anybody with

those numbers is a long shot. it ises the not a slam to senator scott, it is a reality because politics is a numbers game. elections are a numbers game. howard: yeah. >> secondly, most of the people on that that stage are running for vice president except for mike pence, obviously. but if you're running for vice president, you're not going to slam somebody too hard, although it diss work for kamala harris with joe biden -- [laughter] especially if that somebody is donald trump. howard: do you agree with that? >> well, i think it's fair or to say much of that i agree with. the one thing i think is different here is sort of this question of what are the different lanes, what are the different categories the republican party as you see them. and if you see it as essentially, you know, donald trump and ron desantis fighting over the bulk of the party, i do think there is this space for kind of an uplift, a socially conservative kind of, you know, old-fashioned approach to politics that may overperform a little bit just because that's something there is clearly still

an appetite for particularly among evangelicals in america. and i think the question is more, you know, does that go to mike pence or tim scott, and that's more the lane that exists there. howard: leslie, i want to give you a chance to respond to that political piece on casey desantis, and that is conservative women this politics get treated a lot more unfairly. >> oh, thank you for coming back to me on that. really. do you remember hillary clinton when she was first lady and she didn't want to the bake cookies and how much they got on her in michelle obama, children that were attacked first, amy carter and the clintons' daughter, chelsea. is so this has been going on. st the equal opportunity attacks on both women from the left and the right. i actually wrote a piece years ago -- >> but, wait, wait, wait -- >> because women -- wait, wait, wait, no, let me finish. defending sarah palin. i think it's terrible when anybody goes after the spouses whether male or female of candidates. they're not running.

finish but i will say that the it does bother me when somebody will get mad at a politico, but they won't stand up to donald trump when he puts down their spouse. ted cruz an example. mitch mcconnell's an example -- howard: all right. let me get back in here. >> i would just claim to you i think the media, especially the media today to the, is far more biased on this subject. i do agree with you that there's certainly political foes on either side that go after women in politics in these aggressive ways. but nicole wallace has her show because with she shivved sarah palin all those years ago, and she would not had that show -- howard: on msnbc. sunny hostin and whoopi goldberg attacked tim scott on "the view" saying he suffers from clarence thomas syndrome and thinking every black person can make it because he did, and the senator's been fundraising off those criticisms. [laughter] >> yeah. he's leaning right into that. look how quickly this happened in terms of -- he didn't even

have to do anything other than announce that he was running for them to immediately decide this in a way that is blatantly race-baiting. i wish there was an ozempic for racism, because that show would be a lot better if they got rid of this type of race-baiting which they engage in so aggressively and without knowing anything about the subject involved. tim scott is a very balanced guy in the senate, obviously, working on criminal justice reform issues and the like. he is not, you know, in any way an uncle tom figure or something like that. and to suggest that he is is a malign insult. howard: well, it got him in the news. ben domenech, see you a little later. leslie marshall, thank you so much. up next, a end thetive deal, finally, on the debt ceiling showdown and why democrats are frustrated that joe biden is bare by speaking -- barely speaking out. ♪ ♪

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howard: after months of incremental coverage, kevin mccarthy and joe biden say

they have a tentative deal to the avoid a government default. >> when republicans had the presidency, the senate and the house, did they ever cut spending? no, they increased it. we were able to do this when the president said he wasn't even going to talk to us. howard: vote is scheduled for wednesday which means this cliff changer -- cliffhanger is not over. joining us now, mike emmanuel. congress never does anything million the last minute, so we have or president biden and mccarthy striking this keel almost at the last minute. wasn't it almost always the case that at the last minute they would avoid a default and enough concessions by each side that they could claim they had won? >> hay tad -- they had to get a keel because president biden's running for re-election, and and he has to corn. he has all this hill experience, so he had to get a keel. and kevin mccarthy had to get a deal because you don't want to be left holding the bag for the guy who blew up the united states government. you knew they had to get there,

and i think a big purpose turning point was when you started hearing the far left saying use the 14th amendment, sir, and the freedom caucus saying we don't like any of this. you knew it was going to be a centrist deal between the two parties. howard: right. and some of the most hard-line conservative members have already said they hate this deal, they probably weren't going to vote for it because it didn't have everything each side wanted which is why when the vote happens, connect mccarthy may need some democratic votes. >> i think there's no question about that. but i think if the president of the united states is saying it's a decent deal for the country, it takes debt off the table, it allows our government to continue, then i think a lot of centrist democrats will saying okay, i don't love it it, but it's a compromise. howard: it's a compromise. several democratic lawmakers on the record telling politico they feel that during this whole thing biden should have been speaking out more, using the bully pulpit, that basically he let kevin mccarthy win the spin war. even weekend to get the deal last night, mccarthy spoke to

the press, he spoke again today, he was on "fox news sunday," and biden puts out a written statement from camp david, a lot of times disappearing for days. >> and karine jean-pierre's beating up the republicans from the podium. it just seemed a lot of disconnect. and so where is the president? and so i think, yeah, democrats are justifiably concerned because they want to look like they're running the show. they control two-thirds of town. howard: right. >> and it's just surprising that he hasn't spoken out more. howard: okay, just briefly, donald trump, his lawyers just wrote to the merrick garland ea saying that the special counsel, jack smith, treating him una fairly. he wants a meeting. also the judge in the stormy daniels criminal case set a trial for next march in the height of the primaries. that feels unfair and nonaccidental. >> yeah, absolutely, because that's when as a candidate you want to be bouncing around to all these early states nonstop, and you don't want to be distracted by going to the a

courtroom and also the optics of it. and then he's also got the manhattan charges that may come up right before the primaries start, so it's going to be difficult in terms of balancing the campaign and also going to court. howard: well, this is the manhattan da.'s case and you may also have something from doj about the classified documents. it's ten months from now, why can't the trial get started earlier? that's the question i would ask. >> absolutely. and, obviously, for republicans there are concerns about that because it may be unfair to the guy who is in the driver's seat at this point. howard: the ultimate split screen moment. mike emmanuel, always good to see you. next, why once-hot digital media outlets are sudden arely dying off. stay with us. ♪ ♪

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long overdue series of layoffs and closures that have seen the once-mighty laid low. and we're back with ben domenech, at the risk of overexposing him, whose piece is up right now at spectator.com. you start off by writing about kim kardashian's derriere, and i'm not saying that just to get people to keep watching -- [laughter] i would never stoop to such a act tick. but you say that a -- tactic. but you say a decade ago that body part generated 16 million views for patient magazine and what's become of paper magazine? >> they don't exist anymore. and that's what we kind of see when we look back at this unique period where all of these different entities with enormous, you know, sort of energy behind them were viewed as next new thing for media. they were going to be the new dominating powers. and so you saw the, all these dt entities that were out there that were, you know, approaching things with a click-baiting kind of attitude that was driven by,

you know, trying to get as many eyeballs at one time on something like that -- howard: right. >> -- as much as possible. howard: occasionally, there was good journalism in all these places, but they were considered cool, hip, rebell yous. why would the bottom be falling out now? >> it's falling apart for a number of different reasons. a big part of it, i think, is hay misjudged the strength and the power of people's willingness to pay for quality content on line. and so, you know, when all of these old guard entities started throwing up pay walls, they were laughed at. the idea that that'll never work, people won't pay for that kind of thing. and then it turns out that, actually, people will pay for what they view is quality journalism and high quality podcasts and newsletters and things like that. howard: right. so what's sort of taken the place of these other outfits, and i hate to see people lose their jobs, but in the end, the business model didn't work. places like substackif you're a

writer, you have a following, $5 a month to read your offering, your videos, and they tend to be a little more deeper on journalism -- >> yes. howard: -- or just really good writing. is that business model going to stick because you're not dependent on advertising? >> yes. you know, i think if you actually look, we're kind of going back to the very old days of a newsletter model has been around -- howard: yeah. >> exactly. and, of course, you know, it's one of these things where as easily as homer simpson says it, your ideas are intriguing to me, and i wish to subscribe to your newsletter. that model has proven itself in an era in which people look across the landscape, and they are tired of click bait, they're tired of things that don't really give them answers. you have this new entity, the messenger, which is out there right now, and you already see it running into difficulties. it's pushing out enormous amounts of content, but it's very slim on actual original

journalism and reporting, and i think people are tired of that. they don't want that in their feeds anymore. it's interesting to look back at these entities that thought that they were going to be the new dominant powers for years and years to come actually having to shutter and many some cases declare bankruptcy. howard: you say that substack writers and a couple of of the most well known ones are barry weiss and matt taibbi are at least as powerful as new york times columnists. explain. >> the reason i say that is because i think you no longer have that kind of need for the backing of "the new york times" above your name in order to be taken seriously. you know, barr ily weiss, obviously, who you mentioned, was there, and she decided, you know, even before she might have been pushed out eventually, the woke internal struggle -- howard: and she launched a whole company. >> absolutely. and you see matt taibbi, michael shellenberger who's on the network quite a lot who runs public, and he's obviously

someone who is a cu member on twitter files and everything that they've learned from that. i think that one of the things we have to understand is people now pay attention to who these individuals are within the news-making process. they have opinions on them, and there's another element of this too. thanks to social media, that allowed a lot of people to see the privately-held opinions of journalists whose bylines they were reading on much more structured pieces many ways that undermined any kind of view of objectivity. that's had a real impact. howard: they thought they were just talking to their friends. >> exactly. howard: twitter might also be part of this revolution, though it's not clear under elon musk will content creators or be able to make enough money to the make a livingening -- living. >> yeah, and that's one of the big questions moving forward. twitter has tried to roll out these abilities to have really long threads combined into one post, they've tried to make it easier for people to pay and subscribe to the various accounts and get more premium

content from individuals, but that's still very early in the going. and i think that there's a long way to go before we know whether twitter is able to adapt to that new model. howard: now, in your spectator piece, you throw in layoffs at the washington post, abc/disney, basically legacy media outlets and a lot of their advertising has been stalling. since these were not digital the darlings, does that show people won't pay for quality news or won't pay so much or only for a couple places? >> i think one of the things we see with those legacy entities is they're having to prioritize how do we make money doing the, and if they don't see a way to make money on journalism, if they view that as actually a drag, a loss and something that doesn't necessarily accrue to the their benefits, it might hurt them if they get a story wrong or the backlash for something they report and instead they sort of say, you know what? maybe we need to be more about producing family-friendly con end the or running theme parks

and the like -- content the -- as opposed to getting into areas that make us more and more controversial as we're trying to el people, you know, things that they'll buy for their kids. howard: yeah. it can be high risk because you don't want to the tick off some of your readers. at the same time, you want to do good journalism. and as you point out, "the new york times," one of the first to put up a pay wall, and that was sort of scoffed at, now has 10 million digital subscriptions because everybody's got to find a way to get into the streaming business, the podcast business. and that's why this changing of the guards is so interesting, and i very much appreciate your laying it out. i'm actually quoted in the piece, so hold your applause. [laughter] ben, always great to see you, thanks so much. >> good to be with you. howard: after the break, why democrats have very mixed feels about joe biden and kamala harris, and we've got some exclusive footage for you. ♪ my bottle of choice? neutrogena ultra sheer. a lightweight blend that protects 6 layers deep

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howard: what comes to mind when people are asked about the president? well, he's 80 years old. but how much does that color views of his re-election bid? if there was any doubt that democrats have decidedly mixed feelings ant joe biden, check out this focus group seen for the first time on network tv about democrat impressions of the president. >> too old and outdated. >> phony. >> more productive than thin will give him credit for. >> crystal.

>> he's wise but he's old. >> stephanie. >> compassionate and very effective but too old. >> margaret. >> knowledgeable but old and out of touch. howard: i spoke earlier with a veteran republican pollster. frank luntz, welcome. >> thank you. howard: we just watched one democrat after another, even those who respect joe biden's record, say he's too old. how deep is that ambivalence, and do you thinkst the fully reflected in the media coverage? >> well, my question is why they feel this way when he just announced for president. howard: right. >> and in the end, the media's going to have to decide are they going to show his administration, his accomplishments, his failures, or are they going to the talk about the attributes that the public cares about? we showed them clips of vice president harris making mistakes. we showed them clips of biden at

his best. the public thinks that if the clip is negative, it's deliberately biased. if it's positive, it's clintly biased. -- deliberately biased. no the matter what you do with joe biden, you believe the media is either out to get him or out to prop him up, and so there's really no winning on this. howard: how big an obstacle is that? because if it comes down to it and it's biden versus trump in 2024, won't most democrats vote for the guy who is not trump? >> most democrats will. but, howie, it's also a bigger question. it's a question of whether we trust the media, whether we have faith and confidence in them. frankly, it's a question of whether we trust the democratic process. and the media is the interpreter, and it's going to be a very hard process. but in the end, we're going to have to ask them to tell the entire story, the whole picture. it's not just enough to to talk about what he says mt. white house, but what he says to

congress. and we have to be able to see how effective he is, how, how his attributes, whether he's ready for being president for another four years. howard: now, you asked your focus group as well with about kamala harris. let's take a look at that. >> noncha hasn't. i think she needs coaching to be more focused. >> ooh too quiet and in the. >> i think her role has been diminished, and it might be deliberate. howard: so not very enthusiastic responses about the vice president. what's at the heart of that? >> i like to say that she's got the lowest credibility and favorability ratings since dan quayle, and he's got the the lowest of any vice president since aaron burr. the issue for her is a lack of seriousness, a lack of studiousness, a lack of curiosity. she is -- and she communicates as someone who's not taking her job and her responsibility the

way that we expect of a vice president. i need to use someone as an example which is dick cheney. people thought he was humorless. the man did the not laugh. but he was serious and he did his job in a professional way. they look at all these interviews where she just laughs it off, and it really offends people, even democrats. let me emphasize these are democrats reacting to the vice president. howard: right, exactly. and do you think feelings about the vice president loom even larger because of biden's a age and how she's widely viewed at -- as the backup? howard: absolutely. that's not particularly helpful to the guy at the top of the ticket. >> absolutely. in the end, you have to be able to see her as president, and a whole lot of americans, even democrats, cannot imagine her taking over that position if something should happen. howard: right. and in 2020, we talked about this on the air, you suffered a stroke. you recently told new york magazine, quote, i had a stroke because of trump.

frank, that's ludicrous. you may have had a stroke for a lot of reasons, but i don't think you can blame it on negative feelings about the former president. >> no. it was -- it's a metaphor. it's a met for wanting top -- metaphor for wanting to tell the truth and that i was, quite frankly, nervous. i was on shows including some that you're close to, and i would pull my punches. and that's not who i am. it's not what i'm about. and i did so, and it used to cause me so much anxiety and so much stress that in the end, i think it contributed to ill health. and i simply don't to do that anymore. and it allows me to look you straight in the eye and acknowledge, number one, where i got it wrong; number two, where the other people are getting it right, and most importantly this relentless pursuit of the truth, i want people to trust me. howard: anxiety or stress can

certainly contribute to or exacerbate medical problems. you always talking about having shared an apartment can -- with kevin mccarthy. i guess the question is are you, because of that friendship, still consider yourself a republican party advisersome. >> i don't think that really matters. of i think what matters is do i think that i have the ability to interpret what the public is saying. do i have the ability to project based on hair comments now what they're -- their comments now what they're going to be the saying six months from now or a year from now. i am more involved, i'm doing more sessions now than i have ever done, and probably i shouldn't be working that hard. but i'm so interested in understanding how we think, how we feel, and i want to understand that anger. i want to listen to trump voters and be able to explain why they're so frustrated. i want to listen to biden voters and be able to explain why they still have faith and confidence in him. and most importantly, i want to try and lower the decibel level

because there are a lot of people who watch this show, other cable shows, and they are mad as hell. the vast majority of the public is mad as hell. i want to be able to interpret that anger and hopefully, hopefully be able to lessen it. howard: frank luntz, thank you very much. we appreciate it. >> thank you, howie. howard: still to come, a reporter threatened at knifepoint, russia slaps sanctions on anti-trump comedians and more. the buzzmeter is next. ♪ ♪ rking circulatory system, you had to give your right arm to find great talent. but with upwork, there's highly skilled talent from all over the globe. right at your fingertips. ♪ this is how we work now ♪

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howard: t it's that time again, racing the buzzmeter clock. let's go. we sometimes forget journalism can be carriages. first, a college professor harassed two students handing out pro-life materials.

>> this is [bleep]. this is violence. you're tricking my students. >> sorry about that. [inaudible conversations] [bleep] howard: and when new york post reporter reuben fenton knocked on a bronx apartment door, rodriguez held a machete ity to his throat and threatened to, quote, chop him up. >> let's, let's get out of here. you can't do that. howard: she later chased a reporter and kicked him in the shins. hunter college are, which really had no choice, promptly fired rodriguez who later surrendered to police. more than a year after the ap got an $8 million grant from several environmentally conscious foundations, there were questions about that coverage. the associated press insists its reporting isn't influenced by the influx of money which it discloses, but the conservative media research center finds stories with what it calls environmental extremism buswords, cast and climate

disaster appeared 30 times. one story said deadly was extreme weather now, climate change is about to get so much worse. look, it should be covered aggressively, but potential conflict will only grow as struggling news outlets accept these outside grants. house oversight chairman jim comer was on fox news talking about his investigation of hunter biden and other biden family members. when he was asked whether his probe was changing the media coverage and said the quiet part out loud. >> donal ahead of donald trump and trending upwards. joe biden's trending downward. and i believe that the media's looking around scratching their head, and they're realizing that the american people are keeping up with our investigation. and they realize something's wrong here. howard: so congressman just said, hey, we're driving poll -- trump's polls up. is that the purpose of the investigation? he tried to walk it back days later. reminiscent of kevin mccarthy eight years ago saying his party had put together to

investigate -- a panel to the investigate benghazi. russia has extended the pretrial detention of evan again covisits through the end of august. the whole thing is a ham with the kremlin using him as a pawn many a proxy war with the u.s. over ukraine. and i just hate that it's dragging on. and speaking of moscow, this is amusing, russia has slammed sanctions on many of donald trump's critics and adversaries including special counsel jack smith and a whole bunch of journalists and pundits including joe scarborough, brian williams, rachel maddow, seth meyers and stephen colbert. the only impact, they probably shouldn't plan to visit russia. well, that's it for this edition of "mediabuzz" on this memorial day weekend as we honor the fallen who gave their lives for this country. i'm howard kurtz. you can subscribe to my podcast

can, media buzzmeter. we have fun with a lot of things that i find amusing. apple itunes, a good place another the it. we are back here next sunday, 11 eastern to, with the only media analysis show on national television. ♪ ♪ how to grow more vibrant flowers: step one: feed them with miracle-gro shake 'n feed. that's it. miracle-gro. all you need to know to grow. and we're done. hm, what about these? looks right. nooo... nooo... nooo... quick, the quicker picker upper! when you gotta get it done, one sheet is all you need. and bounty is 2x more absorbent so you can use less and get the job done with one. this works.

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five we have a deal in principle. president biden house speaker kevin mccarthy reaching a tentative agreement on the debt ceiling just over a week before the june 5 deadline. the text of the bill now being written saw some lawmakers say they will vote no. vulcan fox news like i am arthel neville. hi bill. bill: great to be here with you once again. i am bill melugi