>> hello, everyone. this is outnumbered. i'm ka kaylee and i'm with rachl campos-duffy and the host of american dream home on fox business, cheryl casoni and chairman of o'leery ventures, kevin o'leery. we begin with a new and disturbing report from "the wall street journal". the role of big tech on protecting our children online i

couldn't believe what i read. the journal reports that instagram has been connecting and promoting a vast network of pedophilia. researchers within "the wall street journal" investigation found the flat form enabled users to search for hash tags and recommended accounts to related to buying and selling child sex material. one shocking example was a hash tag involving preteen sex. sensorineural spite the platform's algorithms promoting this type of content o other users, it's unclear how this slipped under the nose of meta and ceo mark zuckerberg. meta is responding to "the wall street journal" findings saying "between 2020 and 2022, these teams dismantled 27 abusive networks in a january 2023, we disabled more than 490,000 accounts for violating our child safety policies. emily, you and i were on this

couch when there was another explosive wall street journal report about effect of instagram and social media on teens. i'll never forget it, senator richard bl blumenthal and creata content about eating disordersos and curating content and they're curating content that's pedophilia in nature depicting sexual acts i don't want to describe what i read, an algorithm promoting this, emily. emily: nothing surprises me about this, kaylee. it's only that meta claiming they've done something alaska it. talking about the 27 networks and 497 elicit accounts and tell me the percentage that that represents. that's one through the eye hole. what about the 2 million that haven't been discovered or acknowledged and whenever there's any existence of a structure, there will be

nefarious activity and the dark web is flurrying and why not on the social media train. i spoke with a representative of'asson -- liaison of national exploited and missing children and jeff james explained carefully this is exactly the issue. this in fact is incredibly prevalent and that's why unfortunately it's so incumbent upon pans to understand what their kids and youth are doing. there's so much that kids do and adults do on the platforms that parents have no insight into and no control over. who has control, who does have speedometer for it are these social media plat for the purposes that need to step up to the plate. and final point, for everyone on the woke left that associates law enforcement with simply walking a beat and with some type of racial representation on the sidewalks, this is why we need funding for law enforcement. at federal, local and state.

it's investigations and resources and humans to go after this and solve it. it's a collaboration between law enforcement and these guys. i don't trust the 20-year-old at the computer at san francisco's facebook headquarters to get everything done. i trust my law enforcement and they need funding for it. kaylee: no doubt. rachel, the ei instagram accouno sell sex accounts and commission explicit acts and some are videos of children harming themselves and images of the minor performing sexual acts with animals. researches at stanford observatory children are available for in -person meetups it. your point, i had an fbi whistle blower on my post-cast about how she was removed from child sexual abuse cases to get white supremacist and january 6 people

and these are the priorities of the government as well. i think we need to talk not just about what meta and instagram are doing or not doing but also about thistaxic suit. look at numbers of people who are wanting this material, why is that happening? and the toxic soup is several things. first an open border and cat called joe biden the sex trafficker in chief. we have people coming over the border, children, we have no idea what's happening but it's so much deeper than that. we have the normalization of foreign fio in the culture. younger and younger and the average age of young child looking at pornography is 10 years old and that content is becoming more and more administered core and affecting people into their adulthoods and then the sexualization of children, which we all know is happening and we have to -- we have groups, academics saying it's, you know, these are child -- adult attracted to child or coming up with the new name, minor attracted adults.

we have lgbt groups that are also normalizing this and finally i want to talk about the history of the sexualization of children. this is not a new thing. markist have been trying to do this for a long time and back in 1919, an introduction into the markist culture and sexualizing children and selling them into a family as children and this is a wader ageneral disa to pay attention to. kaylee: to the volume, it's interest to rachel's point here and a meta spokesperson said the company removed 498,000 accounts, we went through that and found that current and former meta employees that worked on instagram, child safety initiatives estimate the number of accounts that exist to follow the content in high hundreds of thousands if not millions. this is a cultural issue. cheryl: they've got a human problem at meta and instagram and to your point about what was discovered by "the wall street journal" when it came to their

effect over teenagers, first black eye. they've not in effect really control that had issue. look, instagram has now become a sales platform. they obviously are more mo customerred on d data and algorithms than human monitoring and twitter as well into this. with instagram in particular, you noticed you're getting more and more offers to buy things on instagram. it is a money making platform. kevin knows this were sell. now, the issue though is that they cannot control these accounts and the minute they -- sate hash tags for example accident right, you'll have likr something, well, if that is a blocked hash tag, they come back and put in an emoji and that hash tag is right back on the platform. there's zero control over that platform and it's not just the abuse of children, it's also animal abuse and it's also fake accounts and there is a lot, a lot of fake identities. i think we all have them on instagram. i can't control my fake

identities on instagram anymore. it's just a platform for criminals and so unfortunate. kaylee: i couldn't help but think about mark zuckerberg sitting before congress and talking about the harmful effects of social media on young girls and proving this was harmful to young girls. take a look at how mark zuckerberg answered congress. he had interesting new ideas, watch. >> i find that very concerning arguing this particular incarcerated bracket. 13 and under. given the preservices, how exactly would you be making money or are you trying to monetize our children to get them addicted early? there's clearly a large number of people under the age of 13 that want to use the service like instagram. >> what would be beneficial to our children to launch this kind of service? >> congressman, i think helping people say connected with friends and learn about different content online is broadly positive.

kaylee: that was in response to a question about meta wanting to create an instagram for kids under 13. 44 attorneys general in the country bipartisan have come out against that. >> they've ban that had strategy and think about being on the board of meta and public canes own this and how do you fix this problem? the narrative for all social media and benefit for weaving out getting far and fair high resolution and you can find these needles in the hay stack. 95,000 accounts in a multibillion unit platforms is very, very hard to find. but now what's changing and this narrative is across all of them and not just instagram and it's twitter and linked in and it's everybody. we have to put hu human beings k to make judgmental decisions on the contents that's not correct. child foreign fio is a scourge in our society. it's been around forever. it seems impossible to stamp out but if you're associated with a company that's being accused of

this, this is not a good hair day for zuckerberg, obviously. they want to fix this thing really fast. they combine it with ai being the sleuth ands up the accounts with a team of people, human beings that can make the decisions saying that content is in appropriate. i'm shuttling down that account. i'm making that directive and that decision. get the human beings back into it and tell the stories of how people make decisions better than computer when is it comes to child fortune fio. clearly -- pornography, clearly if it looks wrong, take it down. it's that simple. that's where we're going for this not just for zuckerberg but everybody. this will be happening and constantly hear this, congress is getting involved and every politician wants to say something. parents are offended. they don't like it. obviously. it'll get fixed that way. system of articulation

rachel: my podcast this week is on the marxist roots of the sexualization of children. if you want to check that out, do so. kaylee:my meta says they've made changes but feels very, very reactive. why not on top of this from day one. from day one. we're also following breaking news at this hour after nearly two decades, the prime suspect in natalie holloway's disappearance, joran vandeberger shoot is about to face the american -- van der sloot is about to face the american about to face the american criminal justice system, that's and the payments high. consolidate that car loan into a newday home loan and save hundreds every month. okay everyone, our mission is complete balanced nutrition. together we provide nutrients to support immune, muscle, bone, and heart health. everyone: woo hoo! ensure with 25 vitamins and minerals. enter the $10,000 nourishing moments giveaway. frustrated by skin tags?

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>> emily: a new chapter beginning with a heart breaking quest for justice and a story that's captivated the nation. joran van der sloot, the prime suspect in 2005 disappearance of american natalie holloway is now

being extradited to the u.s. as we speak. he's set to face federal extortion charge charges for ald financial crimes against the holloway family. new video from earlier today captures the moment that van der sloot was transported from his prison cell to the airport. he's due to arrive in birmingham, alabama, in just a few short hours. natalie holloway's disappearance became one of the biggest news stories of 2005. young natalie could have been anyone's daughter. the young 18-year-old was on a high school graduation trip with classmates in aruba and one night she fannished. the prime -- vanished. the prime suspect was joran van der sloot but he's escaped the american justice system until today. we begin with jonathan c >> fog

this story. >> aruba is a small island and got a feel of the terrain in the tourist areas and winding caves where you could hide someone and cassioppi tess to boat ifs you want to cover your tracks at sea. joran van der sloot seen leaving a bar with natalie before her disappearance was questioned along with two of his acquaintances and authorities were unable to gather enough evidence to charge any of them but natalie mother, who's remained active in investigating her daughter's disappearance from the very beginning, immediately suspected foul play. take a listen. >> it is now that i ask the world to help me. two suspects were released yesterday who were involved in a violent crime against my daughter. i am asking all nations not to offer them a safe haven. i'm asking in the name of my beautiful and talented and outstanding daughter who i haven't seen for 36 days and for whom i will continue to search

until i find her: thank you all so much. reporter: in 2010, five years later, van der sloot allegedly offered to lead natalie's mom to her daughter's body for a quarter of a million but received -- provided bogus information after receiving half of the down payment. that's leading to the extortion and wire fraud charge. >> van der sloot lied and there was no body buried where he said there was and van der sloot fled aruba to peru before we filed charges. reporter: van der sloot is serving for the 2010 murder of a young woman and autho authoritin that country temporarily surrendered him to the u.s. to bring him, u.s. authorities, bringing him to birmingham, alabama, and it is here in this building behind me, the federal

courthouse where he'll face trial for those financial fraud charges as well adds any appeals that his defense team may file. emily, back to you. >> emily: non-than, thank you so much. jonathan, thank you to much. out to the couch now. cheryl, what's your first thoughts? >> cheryl: i hope beth holloway gets peace. she'd be 36 years old now. she could have been a wife and mother today and she's not. i hope this does bring this chapter for beth holloway to a and my heart has always broken for her and still does today. >> kevin: tragic story and now make sure there's geolocation on their phones and they're wearing a watch. may have been avoided if they had the tech at the time and she'd have known to send out sos and moten who knows and i feel terrible. properuvian jail is definition f hell on earth. they should have left him there if that's the guy.

>> emily: he's serving 18 years and the family is looking for a subsequent incarceration so that the rest of his life is spent behind bars frankly. system of articulation >> kevin: i don't think you can live 18 years in a peruvian jail. that's my guess. >> rachel: there's two parts to this story, the love of a mother and her heart is broke and hasn't given up and your heart breaks for her and hope she gets justice. two, this arrogant little jerk. still he was in prison and may face more and maybe justice will come out of it. >> kayleigh: he's enjoying a robirobust life and married andn the process of divorcing his first wife he fathered and child with to marry a second woman and natalie holloway is a suspect convicted. >> kayleigh: she was one year older for me so for high schoolgirls everywhere, this

struck a cord when the mother told "inside edition," natalie is with god and wrapped his heavenly arms around her and cared for her whatever ordeal she encountered that night. glad show found the peace of eternality and hope she gets justice. >> emily: amen. guys, check out my podcast, the fox true crime podcast. we cover the disappearance of natalie holloway and the team spoke with the news anchor covering that the story from birmingham alabama for years and find it on foxnews.com or wherever you get your podcast. democratsare using the smoke from wild fires in canada to push their agenda. that's next.

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>> emily: residents are being advised z to stay indoors at all costs. president biden was quick to blame the fires on climate crisis tweeting, we've deployed more than 600 u.s. fire fighters, support personnel and equipment to support cannaday as they respond to record wild fires. events that are intensifying because of the climate crisis. president biden was joined by other democrats, watch. >> now we're seeing something ab intuit chicago unpress denned and climate change has to prepare us for all conditions especially what we're experiencing now. >> this is climate change in action and join down emissions and air quality and build resiliency. >> i'm not an expert but as we've seen clearly over the last

couple of decades, climate change has been a real problem. it's the science that shows us that. >> emily: kevin, you're from montreal and our heart go out to all those affected by the wild fires. fires. >> kevin: this is not unprecedented and in large acres of forest, this is common. in large pine forests, every couple of decades lightning strikes a massive fire and kills the under brush and the forest cops back stronger. it's a natural cycle. i understand why a politician would want to point a finger saying it's climate change, no it is. it's forest fires and they u.s. in the u.s. and mexico and south america and europe and here. unfortunately in the case of this one, it fell into a low pressure over new york. now, this -- i was here yesterday and i was like everybody else saying my goodness, what's this? i can smell the wood. but i also went online and i don't mean to this to make light

and the most beautiful images ever photographed in new york was yesterday. it's stunning at dusk what new york looked like. it was like mars and i'm a photographer and saw images i've never seen before. i'm not saying this is a good thing but, wow, look on your instagram and see what new york looks like if it was on mars. it's beautiful. >> emily: especially breathtaking was the fact that in just really 24 hours, kaylee, we went from crystal clear to the mars-like red atmospheric clearance and miranda devine writes for the new york post. this county climate crisis but bad forest management. >> kayleigh: yesterday was national clean air day in can dam it isn't that nice. everyone is blaming it on climate change, including the vice tweeting millions are experiencing bad air quality because of the wild fires and intensifying because of the climate crisis. this is what they always do. california wild fires in 2020 and i went with president trump out to california and sat down with gavin newsom and i was

there in the room and gavin newsom, what did he have to say? please respect the differences of opinion understood wantly on this issue of climate -- fundamentally on this issue of climate change. the climate change is real. interestingly, miranda devine, our colleague, a brilliant peace, smokey new york isn't climate change but bad forest management. she goes onto cite in 2016, the retired fire management coordinator of 23 years in canada warned about the practice of preventing future wild fires at the time only had 12 prescribed burns planned. in 2016 he warned about this, miranda writes and a journal in 2020 warmed wild fire management agencies in canada are at a tipping point. why didn't you listen. sounds like bad management to me. leave to kamala. >> emily: the nighers caught by surprise and again, the -- the new yorkers were surprised and comes out finger pointing, end fighting and harkening to the woke left liberal voters,

but again, there's a disturbing lack of empathy and practical application and any type of advice whatsoever and a solution for how to handle now. >> cheryl: where was my senator chuck schumer on tuesday when i had all the windows open in my apartment and all the sudden my throat is sore and i look out and the sky is orange. central park is looking like it is mars to kevin's point. thanks for the warning, folks. the knee jerk reaction in 24 hours especially with aoc, i find that rich. she's talking about climate change. how about going home to the bronx and trying to help your constituents having breathing problems and asthma attacks happening here in new york city to be clear. >> i'd like to blame this on justin trudeau. i love to bash him any chance i get. >> cheryl: not to beat up on canada but kayl yleigh was right two different studies done and spend money on deforest station in canada and they didn't do it.

sorry, i love canada but they didn't do that. >> rachel: the real is on the climate cult and they're animality human, you know, group and they want to shut our forests and close them off to humans and to industry who know how to manage it. that's what's happening right now. again, you know, another example of how crazy they are, just this week john k >> emily: rry compared d day and the storming of the normandy beaches and the collusional logic and the brave men storming the troops to fight the natzis to climate activist that clue themselves to paintings and museums. it's silly. >> emily: all right, everyone. stay safe. coming up, president biden has vetoed a bill that would have stopped his $400 billion student loan give away and vows he's not going to back down. that's next. age is just a number, and mine's unlisted. try boost® high protein

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>> kayleigh: administration reportedly quietly preparing for the possibility that the high court's decision may not go there way. the president vetoed a bill that would block the $400 billion student for giveness plan and it was bipartisan and vowing he was not going to back down on the issue. >> folks, republicans in congress led an effort to pass the bill blocking the administration's plan to provide up to $10,000 in student debt relief and up to $20,000 for borrows that received a pell

grant. >> kayleigh: in 2020 around 60 to 80% of 18 year-olds vote for biden and the most leaning group by age and this group wants biden's demographic showing the largest drop in support and now at 37% approval down from 53%. that's what this is about. >> rachel: yeah, about wooing them back and the democrat party abandoned the working class and they're punishing them making them pay for other people's college tuition and other people's kid's college tuition and the working class don't make great revolutionaries and want

to get married and go toture and have they're the poor and disaffected and the children of the rich and this is a way to pay them off. off. >> kayleigh: it's totally political and one thing gorsuch said or roberts and you're a lawn owner going to subsidize his student loan, he has to pay his bills and loans for his lawn service and seems some democrats agree and >> kevin: this is the most unfair policy to america i've seen and think about it on a simple basis and why just pick one cohort of students they couldn't afford to

go to college and never got a chance to go and couldn't afford it, couldn't afford to pay back a loan and you give to people for free. pick one class and free for you and all the rest of you, too bad. that's just wrong. >> kayleigh: that put it is into perspective and the z veteran that can't afford college and paints a vivid picture of what's going on. emily, likely struck down by the supreme court the fact the

flagrant programs this administration has enacted have resulted already and not such a disproportionate positive impact and disproportionate negative impact but the dispensing of so many of our hard earned dollars. we've paid for them regardless of halting through the courts and and the elitism that drips all over the policy and the fact that those that work hards in trades or skilled labor or unskilled labor have to account for the elite academics and join themselves at harvard, that's not okay. it's un-am unperson and perpetuy this industry and fight back with your vote.

>> kayleigh: cheryl, young people have cited student loans is one of the reasons they no longer support biden and the economy as another among other issues but the keyword in the harvard poll was ineffective. i have to believe if the supreme court strike this is down and hi apparently according to the journal has no plans to reignite that, this ineffective moniker will stick a little more. >> cheryl: when you make propses for free and go back on that, that's going to hurt you at the ballot box is the thinking obviously when it comes to president biden. but look, let's go back to the root issue here and it's the cost of higher education. let's talk about that and the indoctrination of kids in the colleges now. that's the issue and why all the families rich and poor racked up all the debt for sometimes got degrees that were not useful whatsoever and at end of the day, with focus too much on the wrong problem and this started during the pandemic in 2020 and it's 2023. we're still not collecting student loan payments and give

me a break. >> it really is. is. >> rachel: covid is over, pay your bills. >> cheryl: it's been three years, exactly, rachel. talking about taxpayer money. stop. >> kayleigh: that'll resume in august. today we're mourning the lost of christian brood casting pat robertson. he died at 93. he passed away earlier today at the age of 93 surrounded by the loving prayers of his children and grandchildren. in 1960, robertson started what would later become the christian coalition, christian broadcasting network, one of the largest tv ministries in the world and founded christian coalition and political organization and in 1998, he ran for president and lost the nomination to george hw bush, he became a king maker within the gop and a force on the world stage for a decade to come. i'm a good friend of his granddaughter abigail robertson. she tweeted i got to sit my my

grandfather's bed and read him books and sing his songs. he didn't open his eyes but would seize my hand and i had a sweet sense his soul was already with our lord and savior. she tweeted me saying her grandfather passed knowing he would see jesus christ very, very soon. today we remember pat robertson. the elevator can be tough for young homeowners turning into their parents. "maximum weight -- 1,200 pounds." good thing i got on before lunch. [ chuckles ] progressive can't save you from becoming your parents, but we can save you money when you bundle home and auto with us. my a1c was up here; now, it's down with rybelsus®. his a1c?

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>> president biden and british prime minister relationship sunak and we'll have that for you and joran van der sloot expected to land in the alabama soon and will he be indicted in jonathan t turnove urly legal id outs and we'll release a memo detailing opposition to the app afghanistan pullout to the foreign affairs committee. michael will be here. join us at the top of the hour for america reports. k martha stewart on

self-proclaimed rampage to get workers back in the office. you can't possibly get everything done working three days a week in the office and two days remotely. look at success of france with their stupid, you know, off for august policies, blah blah blah. that's not a very thriving country. should america go down the drain pause people don't want -- because people don't want to go back to work? she doubled down on these comments yesterday. >> my kind of work is very creative and very collaborative. i cannot really stomach another zoom, you know, zoom here, zoom there. it just doesn't get the work done in the right way. i just don't agree with it. i just don't. >> kayleigh: agree with some of what she said and other parts not. for me, it's nice to have remote work when you can do it when you're a mom. it's hard with lots of kids as you know. >> rachel: me and kevin got into this and i was hosting jesse watt >> emily: rs and some things people have to be in

the office for and other things they don't. my concern because i talk a lot on my podcast about love and marriage and prioritizing that, i'm concerned about a lot of young people being home and not being in the office and not being out and about and not able to meet and do the most important work of their life, which is to find love and to get their personal lives in order. that's my concern that we're see ago lot of sort of people turning into cat women too soon. >> kayleigh: that's an excellent point. young people should be out there meeting people in the workplace but like a mom that benefits from a remote schedule, that's different. >> rachel: i agree with that. >> kevin: this just in, young people figuring out how to get together for generations of where they meet. >> kevin: i get it. i want to make a point about the economy that's changed because i live and breathe it every day with our portfolio of companies and getting the data is what's interesting to me, we found out now and made the assumption two years ago that 15, 1- 5% would

return and we're wrong, it's 406789 sectors not return asking accounting, compliance, financial services and logistics. these are the jobs that used to be in cubicles in the basements of corporations, particularly here in new york city. see about 50% of the offices that are b grade are empty. they're never going to fill up again and have to be converted into condos or climate controlled storm and it's changed radically and the problem with saying everybody has to work in the office is you won't be able to hire the best talent. we went out for financial services people in our omitterring company, the bestiad the best talent told us in i have to come into an office and sit in a cubicle and drive for 45 minutes each day in a warn torn city like san francisco, i'm not doing it and don't want to get shot on my way to work that . is another problem. safety in large cities like chicago, san francisco, some parts of new york city, la these days, nobody wants to work in the places, they're war zones so

they want to work where they get their job done. the reason it works is project management. if you're in financial services, get the quarter done by midday on thursday. 12, noon, give it to the compliance officer at 12:01, i don't care when you dot work. >> cheryl: kevin, major corporations are pushing back on the work at home issue. we're seeing google do it and disney and others because they're realizing productivity is down and u.s. worker productivity is done and we have that data from the government and google has instituted like many companies mass layoffs this year. this younger generation that's been a lot of them went to work during covid and able to work from home, they think that's correct and i think the shift is changing and i love that martha stewart called out the french. >> kayleigh: i saw a graphic when julian was in for harris and young people are become increasingly isolated and that's a scary trend if they're not in the workplace. >> kevin: i'm sure they're going to figure it out. >> rachel: they're using

communication skills and social skills and you told me you cared about amor >> emily:. >> kayleigh: i love that. i've always said love with find a way. frankly if you say everybody has to come to the office, you'll get the third tier candidates and not the supreme and i care about talent. i want great team members and tell me i don't want to work in an office but i'm number one at what i do dorks i'll go with nur one. >> kayleigh: good point. more outnumbered in just a moment. ♪ living with diabetes? glucerna protein smart has your number with 30 grams of protein. scientifically designed with carbsteady to help you manage your blood sugar.

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♪♪ >> last but not least, if you feel like you are constantly throwing out five star ratings, you are not alone. the wall street journal writes americans are handing out perfect five star ratings like it's candy and it's defeating the purpose. they say a five star does not mean anything, true reviews are hard to come by. can't trust them. >> amazon reviews, when you get a product that's a hit, happens over 5 million in a week, you'll get the chinese knockoffs and all the reviews are a.i. generated, broken english, all the same. these are done in review farms and we call up amazon and say it's owned by us -- review business is all a.i., it's

atrocious what goes on. very few real five star reviews on any platform. very few. >> the chinese are even stealing our reviews. >> that's sort of an interesting turn around, kayleigh, but i think the olden days, one star because my napkin did not arrive on time and fostering the impatient atmosphere and culture. >> i only go by reviews, i depend on them, i've signed up with doctors with reviews, the dentist i'm going to today is reviews. >> you must open them up and read five of them, wait a second, they are talking about a roast chicken here. >> verified purchase, the best of the trick, amazon is good about putting those up. you really have to do your homework when you look at a product and looked at the reviews, you can tell what's fake and what's not. >> i look for the negative ones.

if you are ticked off enough the restaurant was blah blah blah, that's a great sign. >> great point, and accompanying photos. that proves it's a real person, and kayleigh, i love my dentist, he's amazing. >> emily's review i trust. >> exactly. >> verbal. >> nothing like human, humans are still necessary. >> i trust emily or china, which one should i go with? >> kevin, what about the restaurant industry specifically. michelin stars and a lot of reviews that people depend on to know that their money is worth it. it's expensive nowadays. >> i'm an investor in that space, too. let me tell you the nefarious activity there. the competitors in the block write the bad reviews. this is the most nasty thing that happens with restaurants. >> not just new york. >> any community where you have 3 or 4 in one block, all the bad reviews are coming from your competitors. it's just nasty.

>> there's been lawsuit over yelp. that's happened on yelp. >> it's nasty, nasty, nasty, but all is fair in love and war, that's the whole point. >> word of mouth. >> the restaurants say if you really love us, post a review. they want the real people to post. >> thank you for being on with us, kevin, always such a joy. tune in tonight when our "outnumbered" co-host harris falkner hosts at 8:00 p.m. here is "america reports." >> john: difference between restaurants and television, our competitors love us. moments from now, president biden will hold a joint news conference along with the prime minister richie sunak, frustration of a lack from him.

>> and