on documentsap. and that witness said while prosecutors in the trump case aggressively focusedprosecas ons personal comments and the biden one, they just askedand th about mechanics. >> isn't that interesting? trump there agreed.sive they're aggressive. we have biden. it's just mechanics. we have to leavebiden,st mecha . kelly i'm just out of time. thank you both kelly and tammy . that's all the time we have. left. let not your heart be trouble. laura's next will have a is a lotght. more tomorrow night. >> thank you for being with usto . >> i'm laura ingraham. this is the "ingraham angle" from washingtoi am laun. earlie now, earlier this evening, the news came from the defendant himsel newf. donald trump told his millions of followers on social that was going to be indicted and he'st m also being ordered to report to federal court in miami th tuesdayia, 3 p.m.. now, the criminal indictment and the supporting filings against, trump have yet to be officially unsealed, but we've been informe officiad seven coun them include the willful retention of national defense

information, corruptly concealing documents nationa, conspiracy to obstruct justice, and alsoracy to 18 u.s.c. 1001e statements. >> now, let's not pretend here because over the next year, mayb. e more than that, maybeonger, longer, we're going to be seeing a very complicated legal process that will unfold regarding this indictment. ste we're going to cover it every step of the way as it does es unfold. e at dif >> and i'm sure at different points, you're going to see merrick garland, the attorney on the hill, insisting that this prosecutionthe hill all bee by the books without political fear or favor. are going to be filed.motion >> cross motions are goings to be filed. leaks will happen, but maybe in an unconventional wa hapy. but i want to be veryy clea clear upfront herer . tens of millions of americans believe that donald trump isican being indicted by d fbi because he's a political opponent of the d.c. establishment and joe biden and, of course est he's the most

popular republican in the gop today. ithe swamp can't let it stand. >> they can't risk that trump actually win in 2024. >> that's what the people believe. >> and after two and a half years of positive, ruinous of democrat policies, more voters than ever across various ethnicities are seeing that trump's foreign policy that was far more practical, his economic policy broughactical t prosperity to the working class. >> his trade policy kept china on its and it's his border was not out of control. thso by comparison, look, biden, been a complete, utternightmar nightmare. >> his approval is now sitting in the low thirties and the econome. ing in t y, immigration, foreignimmigr policy, you name it, he's blown iteign-pol. >> and it's why his supplicants in the media or bereft and hyping the drama tonight. >> it's historic and so the president faced federal charges and it's absolutely face fedhistoric i mean, this is probably the most significant politically, mos at

historically, the most hi, very important criminal case since the aaron burr case at since, the beginnir the 19th century when he was tried for treason. >> and let's be real. if trump, let's say, agreed more along the lines of someone like a liz cheney on issues orei mitt romney or mitch mcconnell, he wouldn't be getting indicted tonight. and remember, by the way, that gavin newsom ton. has already said that he thinks ron desantis has committed a crime by sending all those migrants to california recently . so the lesson here that the elites want you to learn, everybodlesson hy to know is thu you are a serious threat to official washington a, l they will investigate you. >> they will figure out a waye they and theyou. will hound you until you give in and give upwill. >> now, it's always been withinh the capacity we know ofof the the executive branch to put its political enemies in prison, bu ive brant we as a country know that's just a terrible

precedenknhat to set. >> it does enormous damage to our standing in the world.t l >> all the people who claim to care about the world community and, their views, because how do we as a nation go railing against vladimir putin orutin g. for prosecuting their political foes, harassing political foes,s intimidating their political foes? >> how do we ding politicao thaw on with a straight face? >> and finallyn, if you're aa republican in office today or you to be in national officeon and you consider thialsment a indictment a big relief, your ticket to relevance finally, way to dump trump. boy, are you in for a ruden for awakening. >> the gop base, even thoset trm who maybe aren't sure about trump, they're not going to stand for a party thap,t itss de facto leader to be relentlessly targeted. >> maybeefective even imprisonef they have their way by the agencies that we the taxpayers

fund. >> so tonight, more than t ever, we need gop officeholderswould- and would be office holders to speak up and to speak outbeas as soon as possible. this indictment will be an embarrassing to the countrynd and should be dismissed immediately before any more damagld be is done. >> joining me now, jim trusty, attorney for president trumpus and former federal prosecutor. jim, thank you for joiningt. tonight. what can you tell us aboutl the charges as you know, them? . well, we don't have the actualil indictment yet. i suppose they'll give that to ul gives at some point betwed and tuesday afternoon. maybe they're too embarrassed to give it to us early. i don't know. but it's a combination of theoretical. t have again, we just have a summary. we don't have the indictment in front of us, but it looks like don't hit loo the espionage act, which is kind of laughable on ite thst several types of obstructionface and conspiracy, then falsestatem statement. so they're kind of throwing everything and the kitchen sinek on the wall in an investigation

that even just days we have we a brought to light criminavel behavior by the investigators. you know, it's a it's an amazing moment. look, i've not built a career attackin builtg doj. i was a prosecutor for 27 years. i spent 17 years there, love fo but this is outrageous that they actually have prosecutovedr who literally, among other things and we've categorizedhern a number of abuses, literally told an attorney thabuses.t proy won't get his judgeship if he ju. n't flip his guy against the president, you know, you don't have to be a a lawyer to recognize there's something really wrong with that. one of their mainon e ofinvestigators, one of their main prosecutors, i should say, said that in front ofid tha five others who i of looked down at their shoes and didn't say anything, basicalls any a federal crime at the department of justice to trycrime at to to bring homer cooperation from who they it ied as an important witnessnr .ng t it is astounding that that's not the real headline not to this indictment.his >> well, nbc newindis justice

correspond and jim says thatrred trump doesn't have a defense in that this legal strategy that he has, guess that wil you're leading will just focus on discrediting the do j. >> watch this. trump's lawyers are really not keen on arguing the facts hereer or the law and are arguing that their client is is not guilty of these potential charges, but arey're more concernedf these with arguing about how the doj played hardball. and look, they did plaj y in ths case and we'll just have to see whether the justice department did anything wrong in the proces.to see ws of prosecus case. >> jim, the argument that you won't actually argue the charges, you're just going to argue the reputatio the cha h the department itself? >> no, i mean, look, this waso e basically trying to appeal thatn thaty in that chaibo pretorian guard for the democratic party to have a conscienced. ence. >> you know, the attorney general is hiding behind the special counsel. he still control general hinds as specialhere and counsel, but he sat there and hid, didn't want to meet ant

with us, didn't want to talk, didn't want to consider the ethical problems we raised. ito co quietly at first, loudlyy now that their investigation is, fatally flawed from outrageous misconduct, perhaps mien criminarol misconduct. but make no mistake, i mean, there are layers of to these charges. and the most fundamental thing, just so your viewerse char, thi, laura, there's this thing called the presidential records act. italled th is precisely dealing with presidents and former presidentsh and, basically saying and doj agreed with this t doyears in a case involving bill clinton that the former president gets to decide what he keeps. he should work really closely he realls. if the they can ask him nicely if they get mad. they think he's holding on to too many thingd s. e a re they have a remedy called civil suits. there is no criminalme penalty y for violating the presidential records act. it's a reflectio forn, the facte that historically before nixon, they had completely unfettered c rights to keep everything. now we're saying at least please work with archives. wi can see some of the stuff you created while you're in the white house. s the point. startin

and by the way, laura, one quick point on this. sure. the referral from the national archives to doj came fromes t the white housee hous actually violating the administrative procedures act. actually violating tt. they s this they're the ones that started this thing. the the politicized bureaucrats at nara, the archivist, were happy to push it forward and into this pretorian guard of doj who's bent on prosecuting them no matter how many rules they break. >> one of the one of the claimrs believe one of the counts will involve potential obstruction justice, which, as you know in my old careery ol as ad as white collar criminal defense attorney, jim was considered very seriously alongy with conspiracy counts s, whicht perhaps will be involved in this indictment as well, listed in the indictment that aat is ra the concern that is raised that if if the president was told not to move boxes and they have evenone on video indeed moving boxes, even if there was nothing in the boxess noth, thoe particular basket boxes, that

that could be a problem or if tape recording coulds that where someone tells someone move that geat's people get into trouble. >> how concerned about that are you tonighconcert. yeah well look not not as mucht. as you might think because if you really know the facts and i can't play out all the facts on but if you really know y the facts, there's absolutely no intent theroue. >> there's nothing to make sense. in fact, you can't even obstruct a non crime whu cannot, a starting principle. so when you have the presidential record act defense, wheou havn you haveon declassification as a defense, then there's really nothing. i mean, he could havs defense,ey throwing stuff in a bonfire and it wouldn't be obstruction .. but the reality is these guys have been desperately grasping for an obstructione forl reason a political reason, which is they keep trying to set upbi this, oh, joe biden's wonderful holding on to stuff that he stole from a scif in 1974.f but trump just didn't answer the bell. well, the last the president said to doj, to that same guy who extorted a lawyer was, if shu need anything, just ask.

he told his lawyer at the time. show them where the stuff is kept in the storage rooptgemu and they did that. and so he says, just let us know. the next thie is a lettera lock that says, please put a lock on the door, which he does o, and then doj goes black because that prosecutor was desperatause to get a search warrant even before he had ever met the president. he had event repo "the washington post" reports that that prosecutor, before they even did a subpoenarts thts saying, how do i get the nose under the tent at mar-a-lago? words to that effect. so that's what happened. they dropped off a cliff theyff athey didn't wantthat's to cooperate with president trump's lawyer. the president was cooperative through and througresident lawy the lawyer would have been. but they weren't radio black until they show up iradioh their khakis with their laptops and their guns and their badges . and they do an unprecedented raid with really a general warrant thatraida violateswe wil the fourth amendment. >> we'll do a separate show on that some other time. eparate jim, you think that if president trump this is a rhetorical questiosidentn hadad said last year, recently, no i'm actually not running for president. i'm not going to i'm not goingfo

to be involved in the 2024 campaign. i'm retiring from politics2024 how likely would it have been that they would have gone after m? >> well, i zero percent fervor would have dropped 2.5%. how about that? really hard to figure out. what does that mean? that's less than one, right? yeah. yeah. so a really small percentage. the only way i mean look there th abject hatred for president trump in some of the circles of doj and the fbi. so, you knowcircles he could he basically, like, saved an orphanage from a fire. and these guysan would sayil he's lucky and they'd still go after him. the other thing that kind of that a i think affects that whoe equation is delaware, where apparently all investigationsdi. go to die. in delaware, you've got horrific family corruption, wid foreign corruption scandals involving the biden family, l as well as the laptop from. and they're slow walking the heckp they out of that. so, you know, that's always cover for whatever soft thatr soy want to give hunter to do something against president trump. say, loo do

k how we are we we softened a little misdemeanor tax plea for softens hunter ande indicted the president for some cyber criminals. >> that's that's facially absurd. now on the new york times just"t reportedhe n tonight, jim, thate one of the charges is, in fact, a violatiocharges n of the espie act. now, your reaction to that if that is indeed the case? ? yeah, i mean, look, they're dusting off stuff that, you know>> yeah,stuff ac, the bs apparently not in play when wh, you know, bleach bit had 30,000 emails that were under subpoena. but the espionage act includes a whole bunch of language that not justact inclnch of l that ts implicate national defense, bu t that your intent is to violate the sovereignty of the united states, to hurt the united states or to help a foreign powe r. t that's absurd under any theorys of this case. and they've got a whole bunch ofcasee rotating theories becat they can't find the facts they want. bus because t there's absolutell remotely like that. you know, if he holdutgs on toor

some documents or people pack documents and he has them in a storag and thee room, even ifi talks about those documents or talks about the existence of them, that is light years away from that, from the specific intentthems aw that they need fo espionage case. >> jim, what's the president's mood tonight? i know he knew this was coming, but give us a sense of whatgi the man's feeling tonighvet. >> you know, it's an interesting mix, laura. >> ys an int that, ink you know, when you're accused of somethingou are, it's pretty natural, at least from my client base, to really turn inward. right. you knowle client bto tur, you're like, whg the heck? how is this happening? it's a particularly hard moment when parti innocent and he's actually innocent. you know, it's a little easier when you'vs actuale something w. you got. they finally caught up with me. that's not what we'rlly cauge a. so there is that kind of initial shock. i think he's got a lot of people around him expressing support, and that's a mixed bag. it kind ofng suppo. it in your head as a very depressing notion. but he also doesn' at lose track of the absolute crossing of o the rubicon as country. >> yeah, the historic nature of a sitting president unleashings

hounds to go after a non-criminal eventically to basically incapacitate the opposition. it is an astoundinate thg third world moment. and again, that's not th schtick. as attorney to go around saying that in cases, but that's where we are as a is countrwhe y and you know, the ob people that are celebrating tonight better realize that they're lettinraght bettze theyf the genie bottle that's going to hurt this country for generations. genera >> well, and the investigations can be turned on them and will be turned on thetim if this is allowed to stand. jim, we appreciate it. obviously, we'reo covering evey aspect of this. >> thank you very much. now joining me now is mike davivery mucs, three founder and president, as well as david schoen, of course, formeunder ar trump lawyer. david, let's start with you. chment l it seems pretty clear what's going on here. they're they're going to endon n making this about obstruction instead of the retention of these documents so they can try to draw a distinction betweenn h what biden did and what trump did. >> do you with that analysis?

>> i think that's right. the obstruction charge>> i t cas the heaviest penalty, potentially, potentially 20 years. however, i wane heavie penaltytn thing that mr. trustee said. thatn of, under the sectio the espionage act, they may be thinking of, which is 793thee >> that's if they were smart, that's probably what they would charge, becaus e it doesn't require them get into this whole classified documents issue ha s to be national defense information. and in that case, their case is from d.c.ion.om d, hetzel, br and others that say you don't have to prove that he intended to into the united states, like other sections of the espionage act. but you do have to prove thate c he acted willfully, willfully in this conduct meantedlly.s kng that he did something. the law prohibiteddid some everf the possible charges, including the obstruction and alll the mishandling of documents. charges requires a state of mindocuments, a mens rea that'sr willfully, intentionally, knowingly or all those things. >> this president did not have that state of mind. no time do i believe he thought he was doing anything unlawfulie .

>> but i'll tell you this. thishey charge a 793 e charge this retention of national defense information, i think president bide ral n probably hast ri the most at risk here because of all of those hundreds of documentl thes. you can be sure some of them contain what's broadly construed as national defense information. president biden's been in government inform for decades. donald trump was a businessman. president biden know s that he not didn't have the right to retain documents with national defenses information if that's the government's theory of the case. >> the wow. involving intent or no intentino thquired thalvint a fact that ia big one. the biden people must be shaking ipeoplen their bootsa that analysis. >> all right, mike. there's some suggestio n tonight that we're in. we're going already. , this trial. we're going to we're going to come back to some of the other substantive matterof f but a lot of americans tonight are thinking, wait a second, we've got a presidentialential e election over the next year. we've got the primarie thes, we. got the debates, and now we we have the justice department's fingere th on the scale of

our political system with this indictment. trial >> but when would a trial take place? watc takh it.d it h >> but i find itar hardow to imagine how there is going to be a trial of these charges,a which is what one would ordinarily expect sometime nexte year. >> i do agree with that analysis. you have a constitutiona l rightfense to prepare your defense, to participate in your defense. so you have to buildand partin a more time. now, we're aware a year from now, the summer of 24, when we're right upon conventions, when we're months awayonventio n actual presidential election, i don't thinfromk a judge is goo to do that. >> mike, your thoughts on thatte ? is that how you're saying things like any trial would not take place before the presidential election? >> it is very obvious that this was political hitch by biden and garland to take out trump for the 2024 presidential election. they did this same play ine pl 2016. hillary clinton goayt caught wit with her illegal home server as secretary of state. with ourhe most classified

secrets. it was hacked by foreign governmentgns, maybe russia. fhe destroyed it in the face o a congressional investigation. so what did the justice department do? what the fbi do colluded with hillary's campaign and obama and biden and theey gn attorney general and the cia director to come up with a russian collusioern and crossfie hurricane investigation on trump a russi. h invet. and so trump declassified these crossfire hurricane via a presidential memo the day before he left office. he had those down inthat's mar-a-lago. that's what this raid was all about. to get back these crossfiret bk hurricane records. as all and he was allowed to haveow these under the presidential records ac tt. the espionage act does not apply. and merrick garlanacd needs to look at a 2019 office of legal counsel, legal opinioninio binding on the justice department that you generally cannot obstruct investigations into non crimes. it was not a crime for trump. >> have his presidential records. david, do you agree with that?

ordsand the way this is playingt now, seven count indictment, we don't know exactly when it will be revealed. mr. trusty it have it yet, and we're talking about it. but we get it. we get a general sense of what's i.we hav wn it. >> yeah, i want to see the indictment. it's very important because >>t to seef these charges hasgea separate distinct elements to them. bust all of this talk is right. i mean, the presidential records act is going to be a kethe presy here. >> but again, the key is going to be the mens rea. and i believe whoever c whatever accounts they come up with of someone telling the president heth what do thie couldn't do that, he was given w advice that he could do what he did and he believed thate of the advice. but i would tell you one of the worst things about all of this worstall prudential princf prosecution reasonably applied in this casel would have led to no prosecution. it's important to have ine country' to nos belief in the integrity of the system. you have the same caba system.lf people. andrew weissman, norm eyes and joyce vance pressingsing f a criminal prosecution. weissman connected with lisa iminalmonaco, the number two in the justice department. >> throughout their careers, they wrote a 186 page

memorandum on why and how president trump should be prosecuted. you have tens of millions of people shouldhave who believe this shao cabal operates behind the scenes bs . and now we have a document like this. we cannot continue down this we. this. there has to be no one is above the law, but everyone must t everyo of cual application the law. it's a constitutional principle >> mhich we're all entitleonsti >> now, mike, speaking of mueller's former pit bull, weissman, he's particularly worried about the in miami watch at the justice. ou may you may not really want florida, but since that's the safe bet that all off th the charges can be brought there, i think that would counsel a prudent prosecutor to go forward in florida. orwari it is harder for donald in fp to attack a case if it is broader in florida. >> mike, wouldn't trump want you cas.e to go forward in florida? i mean, you have certainly a better shot to havhave a be an

impartial jury there. >> yesry. his >> yeah. i mean, of course he'd want this in florida, but i don't know if that's the reason thatd jack smith would bring this in florida. maybe the reason jack smith brings florida this in florida is there's that 2012 obama ruling in the clinton software case that a d.c.ng i judge mighn have a hard time getting around where it's not binding on a the. da judgg so there are many factors involved. of course, you'd rather be in you'e not a trumpp dera deranged jury pool ongf like 93t democrat and 99% of people in d.c. hate trump. so but there are many factors involved here, and i just don't have any confidence jack smith will be fair.ave any now like.. >> and david, stay with us. we'll get back to you. now, joining me now is missouri ,josh hawley. >> senator, we've hashd ever har member of leadership in the house of representatives represente d tonight just gota me a message come out against this indictment and against what the doj has done. no one in senate leadershione.p least to my knowledge at this moment, has come out to say

anything similar. the only one in the house one who hasn't is to im. the wh >> he has said nothing, he said, and he's a whip. there. e your where are your colleagues tonight? where ar ce they? good. good question, laura. here's what i will say. he in power cant just jail his ga tonightopponents, which is what joe biden is trying to do tonight. we don't have a republic anymore. have the rule of law. we don't have the constitution. our constitution is builf law tn the basic rule of law and due process. and nobody should be in doubbast of what's happening tonight. whe biden and his cronies ar trying to take out their chief political opponent. this has never happened before litical . american history, laura. we are in dangerous, dangerous waters and is because ofecause o joe biden. >> now, senator, lots off jo commentators on some of the other networks were making the point that, oh, well, garland and joe biden have never talked about this. biden hathere's there's no prese being brought to bear from the white house and doj totally. independent. >> but let me tell you, rememberbu from april of last

year, the new york times reported that biden quote said privately that he wanted mr. garland to act less like a ponderous judge and more like a prosecutor who's willingjudgev decisive action over the events of over january six. and that was about the january six issue. but they always claim thathands biden's hands are clean, but clearly, merrick garland, if he's able to read and he's very smart, so he does read, they know what biden wants done here. they kno wants done.w what has e before this election takes place? well, this is the same group of people that said when it came to calling parents, domesticntse terrorists, that the white house had nothing to do with it. and it turns e white us the white house wrote the letter. the white house told doj , ow you go after the parents. you know, that's what they're doing here. t is i don't buy for a second that the white house isn't involved in this. of course they are. thand the way merrick garland hs the ultimate signoff here, this guy isn'te t independent counsel.an he reports to merrick garland. l so merrick garland has signed

off on this. the indictment oan f, a political opponent by a sitting president. it's jus opponet laura. and i can't emphasize enoughra. how much danger this putstry an our country in from the rule of law. this is banana republic stuff.e and joe biden has led usn straight there. he will do anythins led usg to d on to power. >> that's the message of tonight. and i'm just going back to, you know, senate leadership here. you ou cannot an office holder in the in the republican partyfo sit by even if you can't standd trump for policy reasons, person or whatever is this is your moment to step forwardrn and say we can't allow thist al to continue to happen to our institutiolo n, not to the justice department, the fbi, cia, intel. . we can't continue this because you're right. banana republic and this is what they want is what putin does. >> this is what she does. ou >> this is not what we do in our country. we have elections allow, e el the election to take place. but mitch mcconnell, this is your moment, my friend. let's let's hear fromtonigh you tonight.t.

>> i would just say that this is not about donald trump. ultimatelys no this is aboutout the united states of america. this is about whether ricathe constitution is still rl in this country. this is about whether any american, any american can expect the due process of law. ce, if merricktak garland can send a swat team to the homes of pro-lifes to ter catholics to terrorize them, if he can call parents domestic terrorists, if he can jail or try to jail biden's political opponents, he can doca whatever he wants to any american. that is what this is about is whhting and that's now what we're fighting for. >> and do you also share my concern that this is a warning fired across the bow by the fbi and the doj to anyone and ron desantis, anyonee fbi like him, who has more of a populist point view, not an establishment point of view, has a real shot at the presidency. don'establis and at too close. watch out. we will come for you and will.

>> we will never stop until we relentlessly pursue you untilk g you give up. that's what i think is going on here. more than anythingoi o, i it's about that. >> oh, it's pure power grab. it is pure power grab by the people in power by biden people. and i just come back to the fact that this is an administration tha.k toact willt nothing to silence their political opponents. they will turn will the fbi on parents. they will turn the fbi on catholic parishesn and try to spy on them. social media companies, on pro-life christians. ial mediso social media companio they will use everything they havmpthey we to try and shn political opposition right up to indicting their chief political opponent. i mean, this is not the unitedls states if this is allowed to stand, we cannot allow it to stand w it t. >> and that's what this next election is going to be about. senator, do you have any confidence that senate leadership will at least comeipl to expressing your frustration and deep concern aboutl , the republic tonight? >> i don't know.

i can't speak for anybody else, laura, and i've given up predicting with what any otherta senator might do. but i can just say for myself that i think thi s is criticalt moment in our history as a nation, and this is the time a to standnation. and say we are g to fight for the rule of law. >> senator, thank you verye ruln now, trump responded tonight trt on social. n >> here's what some of what hee said has been going on fort they years. and they can't stop because it's electiotheyn at the highesh level. there's never been anything like what's happenedere is neve i'm an innocent man. i'm an innocent person. they had the mueller. they this is what they do so well. if they would devote their energies to honesty and integrity, we'll be a lot betterte theirgy t our country. they could do a lot better. they could do a lot of great things. they did nothing wrong.i did and we will fight this out just like we've been fightingno forn seven years. it would be wonderful if we could devote our full timefightn to making america great again. and that's exactly makin what w. but now, again, our country

is in decline and we're a failing nation. and this is what they do failinm i'm an innocent man. we will prove that again. gain >> joining me now, miranda joi devine, "new york post" columnist foningx news contribu, and jason chaffetz, former house oversight chair. also fox news contributor, als author of the brand new book, the puppeteers. and byroo ntributon york chief political correspondent, the washington examiner, and also a fox news contributor . >> randall, let's start with you now. you've studied this doranda, lup and down, up close and personal. your reaction tonigh, up clot o that we have comments rolling in from kevin mccarthy blasting this steve scalise, so many others., the house oftatives representatives like jim jordan. liimt? ction tion tonigh well, look, merrictok garland, the general controls the timing of this. aland the timing is really i outrageous because. it comes right as the fbi has finally been forced by james

colmer and the house oversight committee to hand over this evidence of joe biden receiving $5 million bribe from ukraine when he was vice president. this is devastating to the president. it shouldevastating tod devasta but of course, they've justting. brought out this shiny object to make all of the media lookto over their. not so you not going to seethin anything about the biden bribery stories in the new yorkk times or "the washington post"? all you're going to hear abouteo trump, trump, trump. and it's a pure election interference. >>. disgustin g. now, byron, you actually spoke. to president trump last night. >> did he see this coming? see yes he did. >> my my dinner with him hadmy n been planned weeksne of time.itu i thought it was going to be to talk about the campaign. but thisalk was in the news. it was pretty clear he thought it was going to happen. d and he used that phrase you just heard over and over agai

n, election interferenceon and basically said, look, ifg ie i weren't leading in the polls, if i weren't ahead of joe biden wes, they just wouldn'tsted t have wasted their time doing this. so hishe defense basically is that he had every right to do what he did and that that this is politically motivated. and we should say that i mean, t this is not just the first timem a former president has faced federal indictment. iter is the first time a sittina presidents administration has indicted leading opposition figure in the run up to the election. now, jason, sinc e correspondent, doj correspondent not not that worried about the doj's role here. >> the unprecedentedworried dud a political cycle rather thatp i trump might actually have the upper hand in the narrativte . >> but i'm astonished really that the justice departmentdidnt

really didn't seem to learn anything from last august whenyf ,you know, the fbi conducted a search of mar-a-lago and they said nothing for three days, allowing the forme nothingr president to sort of set the narrative to, frankly, you know, spin falsehoods about what happened. >> js this is what cnn is concerned about when we're we're borderin stuf the, you know, banana republic stuff. we're not bordering. no've entered the banana territory tonight. >> yeah, this is an absurd, ridiculousured territo and dangs indictment. i can't believe they haven't released irous i cat yet so that we can see it. i agree with miranda. i think the timing such that here james colmer and all the house republicans and democratss can go see what'n going on with the allegation from a credible source about joe biden. they just happen hours later to drop this indictment on president trump. you think that's a coincidence? but i got to tell you, i was thk the chairman of the oversight committee, i issued subpoenas and waght s in these preservatin letters on hillary clinton

e docume and all the documents that we w wanted to see that she destroye d. them she destroyed them on purpose. we had inspectors general who went in and looked ate the irs documents with lois irlerner, again, destroyed documents under subpoena. did they g.o in with gunsh gunsb blazing to go look at those things? absolutely look . >> but they do that to donald trump. his facility is protectedunited by united states secret service. >> it's not like you hit him ou servicet by garage in joe bi, you know, or at the pe gn centeg or at the university of delaware. and you didn't pilfer and steal documents from the united states senate like joe biden dod. thep so why don't they have guns g blazing go into those places iuf they're so concerned about classified documents, if they're so concernedrned aboassy the integrity of the country, how come they didn't do those whengs.? because when i issued it, i just happened to be a republican. it i hapthey did not care. >> now, obstruct, obstruct justice, destroy evidence.

>> well, that's kind of par for the course if you're a clinton. now, miranda ron desantis, ton.smartly reacted on twitter t a few moments ago, writing the weaponization of federal law enforcement represents a mortal threaon ofl lat, a free society. we have for years witness an uneven application of the lawe depending upon political affiliation. why so zealous iwn trump, yet so passive about hillary or. miranda this is a very strongma response, and i'm goinrandg to a on the senate leadership vacuum here tonight. i heard nothing from mcconnell, nothing from thune. the list goes on.e list does that say. you're dead right to point that out. it's quite a despicable vacuum of leadership from mitch mcconnell. and this is a time when all republicans need to put asided e their differences and come together because ron desantigets is right. this is a mortal threat.

and, you know, it need is to, i guess, conservatives evd republicans at this poinons but really, it's a mortal threat to every american because once power has been abused in this way, it will be abused again against anybody. , it wiland so, mitch mcconnell, i'm really shocked that he tha hasn't come out and exerted some leadership. cout ande and graham have publicly said that their number one priority is ukraine. and so he was in some sortukraih an embrace with joe biden to make sure he gets whao mat ws from biden for ukraine. >>at's all he cares about and that's it. in fact, i'm so glad you raised that, rand, becaus ie tonightwhw that's exactly what was referenced in. thd thenas in the news saying that, look, biden's very confident. >> and byron, i know you you know, biden's very confident that they're going to get the supplementalwill supply mont ukraine no matter what it takes, no matter how long we stay. that'son focus.f the and speaking of the former trump chief of staff, mark meadowfos, he testified to the

grand jury in the special counsel investigatiohen, president trump. and did he mention anything abouention at byron of former s, including placed staffers likehp meadows having the screws turnedla on them before they wet into the grand jury? >> no. well weninto t, we don't know a. and we do think that one ofthin the charges in the indictment is conspiractharges iny, which s more than one person. trump did point out that aftern. the manhattan indictment, which a lot of people who were not even trump supporters thought watrums very, very weak, that h, poll numbers went up and interesting thing, you just pointed out what governor desantis said about thisterestinyou justpointe the . in the presidential race have a bit of a conflict of interest here. i think most of them believe a co, as do their voters, that trump has been unfairly since 2016.

on other hand, they're looking n at a case in which trump is leading the field by so far that they think something spectacular has to happen to cut into that lead.d fr and frankly, some of them were thinking that perhap somsctment indictment might do that. on the other hand, this indictment might hav m e the effect that the manhattan indictment did, which waight hat increased trump's support. yeah. i mean h, jason, i concur wit with byron saying if theseh whi republican aides, chris christie, nikki haley, the list goes on. if they thin k they're to ridel ride this indictment to the white house, the indn i don't know wht cannabis use that their participating in. >> but it's got to be good stuff becaus to bee they're writing t their own political death warrant if they think they're going to do that. poath warry, donald trump is str than everybody. not only is he lapping people this point in terms of the polls, this is going to make him stronger. it's infuriateg to d thing to the believe people who actually believe that this country there's anuntt

unequal application of justice and that is core to their belief, particularly independents. look at that and say that they know that this is the case. one other thing i want to mention, laura, that i think is noteworthy herek . prime do you remember when president ah, prime minister abe japan was in mar-a-lago visiting president a couple ofis months into his presidency, and there was all this uproar that hpresiden e shared classified information? well, i was the chairman. infon. do investigatio do you know what vice primewhat minister abe was showing donal ? pictures of his dad golfing. and yet the medihia ballistic fr months about how donald trump had shared all this classified in a non-classifiedon setting. i don't believe that thoseclassi the only public display of the documents was put out by the fbi and the department of justice when they took that absurd fbi andnt o display and n the picture. we never saw that biden all the biden documents.

>> we still don't know what was in near the corvette. right. mirandnear theorvette.a the dura which again, going back to the republican reaction to all of this, when they couldn't, he concluded, i know peoplef are do disappointed with the ultimate result, but they concluded that the fb the ulti failed to uphols mission and that 2016 harassment of president trump. >> republicans. what? what are they thinking about with funding of these theseg intelligence agencies and doj agencies that are being turned against the american people here? i mean, are we just going to keep fundin here?g this, you know, until till the cows come home? >> well, look, i think jim jordan has mentioned, for instance, what hink jim the republicans. i mean, they don't have enormous power in this regard. buet have et do have the power e the purse. and yeah, the idea that the fbi is going to build a new headquarters, that many millions of dollars is just offa the table. i think as far as the houseas frepublicrepublicans go, and i. job, the next f

republican president to clean ouext the and the doj, which is obviously been completely corrupted. you just look at, you know, the disparate between the classified documents, scandals of donaldt trump anddo joe biden. and then you look at the fact e that the hunter biden investigation, which isn't that complicated, has been going on for five years. i've been to iris whistleblowers saying that . e doj has intervened it blown up that investigation . >> well, how about the penn biden center? that was essentially centg door of influence as well. i mean, i mean, that just gets like the clinton foundatio n, at the penn biden center. >> it's just it's just assumed that if you're a democraif yout and you were a, you know, in office, you'll be able to set up whatever shop you want as an influence peddling, you know, operation or at least on the on the surface, at the very least. thank you both . all of you. now, cnn's van jones spoke out

about the espionage issue. we're going to get to that in a moment. sue.we wand after weeks of stonewalling, biden's pretorian guard at fbi, finally strongfin armed by congressional republicans as mirandaeleasing mentioned, and to releasing that 1023 form. and now rememberm., was the fbin informant. note that whistleblower alleged documented biden family corruption. welld docume today, committee ot members were able to review that document. nt and given what republican members told hardbout the contenttblican ms . well, it's not hard to understand why the democrats are suddenly silent christmas talking about paying two about p different bidens $5 million each. and then later in another eachother, he tells the paid informant that it was hunter biden and biden. the specifically indicates joe biden's involvement in bis money was scheme moved on purpose through multiple account ms to get to je

biden. >> nows to since those commentsn some late news in us tonight. multiple sources tellinginto u a digital that these payments from burisma or a quote quote retainer to deal with an investigation intoiner them by e ukrainian prosecutor along with other issues. now another sourcerainia said is pay to play. >> joining me now, georgia congresswoman marjorie taylor greene of the house oversight committee. congresswomagreenen so the repog would be that. >> and if this were true, that the burisma scheme is confirmedi ,then trump is indicted. >> i'm sure it's just. a coincidence this all just happened. >> sheer coincidence. finally, we get the information on on alleged bribes of the biden family through shell corporation, etc.. >> well, i have to tell you, i like we're winning and we won some today when everyone like wr like we're losing, especially with this indictment of president trump and this this document hoax. but what we read today in

the skift and i want to i want to let everyone know this wasn'tle an unclassified document. this is a document that al clasd l of america should be able to see. >> but the fbi is stonewall walling us, and they would only let us see it in a scif. i did after readingnt is ma the document is i made notes when i walked out and i went to the table and i wrote down everything thae down et had just read so that i could come out and tell the american people what i read. and it's exactly what you and many others haveit's exa been rf for so long. and it's what everyone already. knew. i filed articles of impeachment on joe biden's inauguratio nactly day.fo >> exactly for this burisma pays to play schememas and when he ws vice president, we now know, 23 through the 1023 form that we read today that joe biden was je paid $5 million along with hunter biden being paid $5 million in order to get viktor shokin fired so that he would

not be investigating burisma anymore. er bid and hunter biden was workingen very hard to get burisma to ge p a u.s. oil and gas company. and hunteran biden was promising there would be a lot oft capital invested into this business deal. >> well, when are we going >> w redacted bank b records? congressman, i mean, the redacted bank records of the biden whole clan. >> so we finally figure out how did the biden family get sos rich? >> that just a simple question that reporters don't want to ask. how dit a simp rd they become s. with joe biden in public service for decade bidens, decae >> how did it happen? well, we have beens? investing investigating that on the oversight committee. and i really have oversie to the oversight staff chairman komar and all of the members on the committee. this is this informant, which is bmmittee.y the way, the fbi d this informant for this 1023 form their most credible paid.

fbi informant. and they they are trying tryin to make sure that we don't get our hands on more. but what been able to uncover is we read over 2000 pages of stories, reports in the treasury department, and those reports are bank th by banks. cedeasury their reports, they have to report them by whenever they see evidence of a crime or certain types ofy see ev. f wire wire transfers like a lot ofs le money from foreign countries a. and then on our oversight committee, we have subpoenaed co have subpoenaeds an bank records. and so we have bank records and we have evidence records ofo transfers from many different countries into shell companiesm . and then we have evidence of payments out of the llc directly to multiple biden family members. di tw also know that there isn't just one 1023 form that the fbi possesses. >> there's multiple. >> 1023 what? and here's what. yeah, there's more.

>> oh, like when are we goingndn to when are we going to get our hands on those or you're going to get your hands on those tr wi next week. >> and this is what this is why i want to tell you and what seems like a y dayremel and where we are appalled, infuriated, disgus dayt and juse outraged over the hypocrisy ofjt merrick garland bringingmerric charges and jack smith bringing charged brs against president tp for this document hoax. and you're rightt , it's today for a reason on this 1023 form it references to more 1023 forms. >> and so our oversight committee was able to read rea the first one today. but next week chairman colmee f and of course congressman raskin get t congreso in and lot two more 1023 forms and tomorrow's subpoenas go out for more banks related to ukraine bank accounts and wire transfers. so we are moving along and i

want to tell you something really interesting. >>ouomething the the person refh their name is redacted on 1023 form that we read today, said that it would taks e years ten years, ten years to uncover all the bank accounts and allous the wire transfers involving, the bidens. >> well, on oversight, we've done it in less thann si six months, and we really think that we're on to a lot more.o te but i want to tell you this. the evidence that i read today ,joe biden shouldshould be impeached. >> this isn't this isn't s something that should be disputed. he should be impeached that ando prosecuted. anh ofecords, etch a sketc bank record. i can imagine. i can only imagine how manyw may shell companies and leases and cayman islandspanies accounts and everything are involved here. and we want to know where thisag goes and where it leads. >> and, congressman, we appreciate your joining us tonight. thank you. joining usnight.back live now is and david schoen. mike, the congresswoman, just

laid out it makes today's indictment look even more obviously used as a deflection not from not just from joe biden's failedden's and border and foreign policy, but from what he's donfaonomice and allegedly how his family became so wealth y over all these years of public service. >> i mean, yes, my former boss, senator chuck grassley, is the king of oversighator chut. he's been on this like a dog. james comber teamed upn on thi with them. they have the evidence that they. ave the evidence joe biden has been corruptly taking millions fromgovernme governments for a long time. >> the fbi has had this thatvide joe biden took a foreign bribe of $5 million when he was the vice president. the fb he wasthi sat on this evv for 2017. the fbi is now pretendinge they're there. there's an ongoing aneestigation and they'r trying to pretend like they're protecting sources and methods. they're not protecting sourcesee and methods, but protecting

joe biden and david, whens you look at this in its totality tonight, i mean, it and it is incredibly dark day for the country. an is excitedngressn about what they've uncovered. wed as i can't wait to seewo more, but we have to go to th back to the fact that the man who is leading by 30, 40 points in some pollg bys, is now unders federal will, will be shortly under federal on seven different counts potentially. i mean, if if ifpotent could be in jail. yeah, that's i mean, that's jail they mean what want. the most fanatical among them want is they want to see him an orange jumpsuit, do they not? >> absolutely. let's take it on his most fundamenta ?l level. m >> forget espionage act, presidential records act. you're talkingtal leve about criminalizing conduct when it's applied against president of the unitedg about states.short i a short time earlier, he sat in the white house. he had full access to theseto documents, could do whatever he wanted, could declassify them now he wantedwhatev. and now you want to criminalize conduct in potentially holding i

on to documents that he's very proud of, maybe in some cases or otherwise, why we trusted him with the very lifeblood of the country just a couple of months earlier. now it's criminal conduct. so on a gut level, that doesn' tsens sense. two other points i want to make quickly. when you said earlier that, you know , republican leadership should come forward, all leadership, aldershil should cow forward and speak out against this. and you can be surareak e, if they find defense, national defense information with joe bidedn, democratic leadership will speak out. pres clinton should offer to bme president trump's defense lawyer in this case. and finally, you asked, wouldprc they prosecute him if he weren't running for president? ruzero chance. jerry nadler said it a couple of years ago. we cannot trust the voters. we have to use extraneous thasures to, go after donald trump. and that's what happened. and i've had the conversation with him's suggesting why not walk away from this, be a kingmake walr, run for office? and his view is he cannot turn his back on the tenshe canno oft millions of people who count on him. he's a fighter. he's going to stand fight.

>> yeah, most people would haved just said enough and they would have have said, know, i'm donee done, i'm entitled to. and they would and you wouldn't have blamed him if they did doat that. but donald trump's just not that kind of guy. trump i is goo it. now. mike, back to the top story, as iy.n i referenced this t earlier, but the salivating, the pavlovian that some on the other networks were seen oozing when some of the most serious of felonies were bandied about inserious . >> this indictment. watch. this is not a star thing. g th this isn't robbing the piggy bank of your charity. this is a federa l governmentnt talking about possible espionage. is this to m talkine when constitutional conservatives need to stand up a t certain point, people have to be clear. when w e have a of laws like the espionage act is what he's grabbing on to there. i mean, who in their rightg onee believes that applies here? >> well, maybelies talking about

the current president of the united states, joe biden, who got caught with five stashes of stolen classified records from the obama whitefrom house and from even the senate. ev used thosevidence records. maybe they're talking about the current president of the united states, joe biden,id who just got caughtent ofes joe bwith evidence that he5 million foreign bribe and change a $5 mid american pon this is nonsense. president trumged polp was all to have his presidential thcords in theseto heavily guarded office of the former president, an office that he used while he was the president of the united states and has secretted stat protection and hs federally funded secure staff staff with securitederallyy cle. these documents never leaked for 18 months after left the white house. they only leaked when biden and garland sent in this illegal home raid to go get back these documents. raid back the crossfire hurricane records that were sot to to the democrat regime. >> gentlemen, thank you so.

>> and now an update on the story we brought you on monday regarding that whistle documenting what he says is the evidence that us recovered alien spacecrafts and beings despite being toldd al years. all all of that was a conspiracy theory. independent journalist michael s shellenbergea ther here has n to a number of military and intel contractors who saysao now that the u.s. is in fact iwn possession 12 or more aliens space. >> shellenberger also writes that the reasospellenbern the nm for studying ufos has not discovered verifiable information is because, quote, they may not wanformatiot verif. >> joining us now, bryce zabel . >> he's the host of the needo kn to know podcast and investigative journalistow t who covers these issues. he was also present for the initial interview with the whistleblowe initialr david grush and has spent some time with them as well. bryce now, why mighte the pentagon not want to verify this information? this is on n

night where so manyraising people are raising questions about the veracity and the trustworthiness of all of our key institutions of government. but why would they want to verify it? well, you know, the information that we're not alone has always been assumed to beweare no a destabilizing kind of thing. laura so on one level, they cane simply say, we're just not ready to deal with this. let'dy ts continue with theinue political stuff, the back and forth. on youthepolitir show tonight, , this is a pretty interesting night to be talking about this becausnighto e the politics oftics the nation are, you know, on the front page or the front, you know o e or at , the top of the show. but at the same time, if this is true, what whistleblower dave grush has said, then it's the biggest news story all time ever. and so i think if if there is an attempt to try to come clean on this, it's been aroun di don' 80 years. i don't know that they have t good plan for it, buhave a g they're going to probably have to get one. >> how important is this, though, agaione.n gettinge core back to the core point that p we've been making all show along tonighhavet?

>> sure. that we need to believe that our government actually our best interest and unless there is a specific and credible and national security reason notl to release information that after decades and decades of questions and sightingsd hod firsthand witnesses, how do you how do you not come forward and say, this is what weard andw and this is what we're still investigating? >> how do you not at least do that? a great you know, that's a great question that could have been r the lastd fo 12 presidential administrations. i will say this, thouge h. t time this is the first time where w this issue has been revealing itself to be actually ao bipartisan issue. you've had the senate intelligencebe a very interestee this. and two of the key players in that arest in this kirsten gill, who is a democrat, and senator theyo rubino, a republican. and they probably don't agree on many things, but they do agree that we should look into this issue of unidentifiedould o anomalous phenomena. so more power to them. and that is exactly what's

going to happen now. these very statements that daves grush has made have alreadys ma been made in classified session before, many to at least two committees in congress wheritteese he's for over 11 hos about this. and he's provided names, dates, programs, locations soally he's basically challenged the senate and the house. if you want to knosenate aw mort this, i'll tell you where to go. >> look for spacecraft. so i can't waiecraft.t for this to happen. >> this is unbelievable. bryce, thank you so much. his is uand now to a horrifyingy out of france. a syrian refugee was arrested after going on stabbing spree targeting infants. >> harrowing cell phone footagel shows the alleged attacker roaming around the childrel phen playground knife in hand. what happens nexth knifet is distressing to show. witnesses say he begang to targeting toddlers, some intodde their baby strollers. >> the sickeningme in th chase,r the suspect was able to overpower him, but nothi

before four children between the ages omf 22 months and three years of age suffered life threatening injuries. ning inj >> now, this syrian refugee had already been refused asylum inbu france, but only because he got permanent residency in swedencae a decade ago. >> joining me now,ag douglas murray, fox news contributor, author of the war on the west. >>utor douglas well, the quest r diversity in europe, we have to be welcoming to all these refugees. it's upended politics. eden sweden. we know what's happened there. with the anti refugeeanti- candidates and parties that have risen to the forerees and w are in power. what does this mean foris the future of this debate in europe? and even as it might affect us here in the united states with our open border? >> europe is still struggling with the consequence of the 2015 migration crisi thes, which i wrote about in my book the strange death of europe. it has been strugglingeen stru with absorption that year abf one andcontinent o

a half million people. the governments of europe didn't knoconton peoplw who had. they mixed up asylum seekersthey with economi mc migrants and people who just came in from all over the world because the doors were opem all ovn. that number that europe sametill struggling to deathat l with is the same number of people coming across the border. in fact, fewereopl acro than the number of people coming across the southern border of the united states. evercoming as thy. now, it's an object lesson in the fact that if you lose control of your borders, you lose control of everything else. if you don't know who is in if you stop bothering b to find out absolutely anything can and will happen. france has been through attack after attack over the laste la eight years. it is veryst eight that this isn example of something that will keep on happening which people in europe have become used to and whic h in america should not become used to. >> now, douglas, a reportreport by real clear investigations

back in december reveale bd, le something pretty obvious crime, migration there. you knowd someth , intertwined. and even after accounting for all these variationseven countr, the data show that each one percentage point increas sen in the immigrant population is associated with a 3.6% increase in the homicide rate. again, european countries have really felt this, but i don't know macron and his wealth welcoming to the refugees. >> and we have to compet.the, continue with the you know, you know, this this open arms approach. >> how long can it stand? very quickly. obviously most migrants are not going to be become murderers, just as are not going to becomea .se there is a vast increase in both of those things. of t you have open borders, macron and his colleagues all stood for a minute's silencefor for the victims of the attack today. i wish they spent one minute trying to secure the borders of europe. >> douglas, we really appreciate it. thank you very much.> tonigh well, tonight was something cout

i thought i would never see in this country where wery actually tur actuan our departmo of justice and our fbi against political opponents, right. as we're going into an election year . my friends, this is going to be a wild ride over the next year and a half. wilride owe will be with you ee of the way. of course, analyzing >> greg: all right. happy thursday, everybody. yeah. all right, all right, all right. yeah, just when you thought new york couldn't get any nastier, it now smells like a humid day inside joy behar's