new york city and he camo on. he's out there, i promise. >> i wish liberal women all the best from someone happily with an amazing traditional conservative man. and tune in tonight when our "outnumbered" co-host is back in the anchor chair at 8:00 p.m. eastern. here is "america reports." >> to the top tier schools were m.i.t., cal tech, princeton, u.c. berkeley. >> despite stellar grades and tests scores, rejected by all of them. he says he was warned. >> just talking with my friends and my guidance counselors, they told me it's like tougher to get in like especially as an asian-american. >> sandra: 1590 on s.a.t. and g.p.a. of 4.6. still not enough for that high schooler to get into his top

choices for college. john wang was rejected by six elite schools and says affirmative action is to blame. >> john: the teenager at the center of a court case that could strike down race-based admissions. fox news sunday anchor and chief legal correspondent shannon bream joins us on that coming up. >> sandra: new details on the bribery allegations against joe biden and his family as the president tries to brush off the growing scandal by hitting the road. hello, sandra smith in new york on this friday afternoon. >> john: we finally made it, you got an earlier start than i did. john roberts. the president is in north carolina about to speak getting good paying jobs for young americans but will likely stay silent when it comes to an fbi document that is a crucial piece

of a house investigation into his family's finances. >> sandra: sources exclusively telling fox news digital a ukrainian natural gas firm executive allegedly paid biden $5 million as part of a bribery scheme when he was vice president. jacqui, these are obviously very serious allegations. what more do we know at this hour? >> not much from the white house, sandra, the president is in north carolina, he's talking education and jobs, not a campaign event, but it is one of the states that his campaign says they are targeting. but the bribery allegations detailed in the fbi form are certainly taking the spotlight. the president was even asked about it yesterday at a bilateral meeting with the u.k. prime minister. >> where's the money? i'm joking. >> mr. president -- >> it's a bunch of malarky. >> confidential source alleged to the fbi a burisma executive paid the bidens to gain u.s. oil rights, to hunter biden and

indirectly to the big guy many understand to be the president using shell companies. a source familiar with this document tells fox to be clear the document does not say joe biden received any payments. house oversight republicans want to see if there's any money trail. >> one of the reasons that i'm encouraging oversight committee is to subpoena more bank records so we can see if this is true or if it's not. one of the things in the document ukrainian executives were bragging about the number of shell companies that it would take a decade to prove it out, to be able to show where the money went. they were purposely trying to hide the source of the funds. >> biden maintains he has never spoken to his son about his overseas business dealings and pledged to keep his hands off the justice department's work. this material is still being investigated in delaware. biden's critics took issue with this interview he did in may. >> first of all, my son has done nothing wrong. i trust him. i have faith in him.

and feel proud of him. >> wall street journal editorial board wrote it's a highly inappropriate message from the president, telling them they are wrong because he is innocent of criminal behavior. the president said yesterday people should trust the doj decision on bringing a charge against former president trump for his handling of classified documents because, biden says, he has never made any suggestion to the doj on whether to bring any charge, sandra. >> sandra: jacqui heinrich live at the white house, thank you very much. a lot more on that coming up, john. >> john: we have been hearing fromheepublican side other than jamie raskin, coming up in just a little while, congressman ro khanna of california, also on the oversight committee will be talking about this, and whether or not this is evidence of smoke or a smoking gun when it comes to the president. >> sandra: looking forward to that. >> john: joran van der sloot

entering a not guilty plea during his first u.s. court hearing in connection with the natalee holloway case. he was arraigned last hour in an alabama federal court after fbi agents picked him up from a prison in peru. fox team coverage now, ted williams will join us in just a moment. but we begin with jonathan serrie, live in birmingham, alabama outside the courthouse. john, what's happening there now? >> yeah, well, reporters gathered outside the courthouse as people come out, we saw beth holloway, natalee's mother walking around the perimeter of the courthouse, she had attended the hearing as well as her former husband, natalee's father dave also attending the hearing, and a family spokesperson came out expressing gratitude to the country of peru for voluntarily allowing the temporary extradition of joran van der sloot to face a federal judge. again, pleading not guilty to the two federal counts against him. natalee holloway's mother and

father as well as others have been waiting for this day. it represents a bittersweet day for their family. their daughter's 2005 disappearance officially remains unsolved but the prime suspect will indeed face trial for charges related to her disappearance. the defendant, who was already serving a 28-year prison sentence for the 2010 murder of a young peruvian woman was temporarily surrendered to the u.s. to face trial for alleged financial crimes against the family. the alabama teen disappeared during a 2005 senior class trip to aruba, seen leaving a popular tourist bar. five years later joran van der sloot allegedly provided her mom false information for her daughter's remains as a result for money. he faces extortion and wire fraud, maximum sentences of 20 years and 30 years respectively. if his pending trial produces

more information on natalee's disappearance, he could face even more legal trouble here in the u.s. take a listen. >> this could eventually lead to additional charges if they receive further information. that certainly can be the case. >> in addition to family members, at least one of the classmates who went on that high school senior trip to aruba with natalee when she disappeared attended the hearing and she was seen in tears, clearly an emotional day for everyone involved. john. >> john: i can imagine. 18 years later they finally get him on american soil to face at least some sort of justice. john serrie in birmingham. thanks. >> sandra: ted williams is a former d.c. homicide detective, criminal defense attorney and fox news contributor. thank you for joining us. we were able to earlier catch up with stef watts on america's

newsroom, talked about van der sloot. >> charming, 6'5", stood out in thailand, as a sociopath, he had an end goal, nice, but had to constantly remind myself he was a killer. >> sandra: this has just been just one difficult day after another for that family, natalee holloway's family, and you've heard that before that this -- that this guy, van der sloot, he charms the socks off of guards around him, fist pumping and nodding to them, stands 6'5", what more do we know at this hour and where does all this go next, ted? >> well, hi, sandra. i can tell you i was in court this morning here in birmingham, alabama, and i can tell you up until one instance he was not smiling. as i entered the courthouse and sat down to a packed court beth

holloway and dave holloway sat three feet from me and then coming through a side door was this 6'5" individual, joran van der sloot, dressed in a t-shirt. he sat next to his lawyer, he did not look around or in the direction of beth or dave. then the judge entered. judge upon entering asked him did he need an interpreter, he said no, sir. he then read van der sloot his rights and asked him how did he plea, and he pled not guilty. he then stood up. at some stage he did smile as he was getting ready to leave the courtroom but stef watts is right. this guy was supposed to have been a charmer. he was supposed to have been as you said, sandra, met natalee holloway there in aruba at this

bar, carlos and charlie, and afterwards she was never seen again. but american justice is taking place, sandra. >> sandra: well, and you just wonder if a trial would lead to more information for that family that lives through that devastation that could possibly bring them eventually to natalee holloway. i mean, you remember at one point, at one point van der sloot lied to the family and said that he had handed her over to human smugglers, only to then retract that claim. do you think that any of the information that would be gathered from this could eventually lead this family to where she is? >> you know, it's questionable because i believe that from all that i know about natalee going missing, that natalee may have very well been dumped at sea. i do not believe she's anywhere on the island of aruba. i think van der sloot definitely

knows a great deal, but anything van der sloot says has to be taken with a grain of salt. i don't trust him, i don't think natalee's family trusts him, and everything they have told him to date, or told that family has been a lie. so it is questionable as to whether he can give them any information concerning their beloved daughter. >> sandra: ted williams, we'll keep watching this now that he's on u.s. soil. we spoke to t.j. ward on the fight for justice, he called this a major thing that's happened here. now that he's on american soil and can be tried by the u.s. courts, they are very hopeful this can lead them someplace they have not been able to get, 18 years later. thank you so much, ted. appreciate it. >> my pleasure, sandra. >> john: former president donald trump has been indicted again, this time in the mar-a-lago

classified documents case. ordered by prosecutors to appear in federal court in miami on tuesday, but in the meantime he's spending time out on the green in bedminster. he's been professing his innocence ever since it came down. >> he's playing a little golf right now. last night he did speak. a short time ago we learned two members of trump's legal team say they have resigned and joint statement, they say this morning we tendered our resignations as counsel to president trump and we will no longer represent him on either the indicted case or the january 6th investigation. it's been an honor to have spent the last year defending him and we know he will be vindicated in the biden administration partisan justice system. it's a logical moment for us to step aside. tom blanch will be taking over. and lawyers say they have no plans to make any more immediate

appearances. last night the former president speaking himself. >> election interference at the highest level. i'm an innocence man, an innocence person, the mueller hoax, the mueller report, and that came out, no collusion after two and a half years. that was set up by hillary clinton and democrats. but this is what they do. >> trump is the first former president in history to face criminal charges. the latest national defense secrets, obstruction of justice and conspiracy. jonathan turley earlier. >> prosecutors bring these charges all the time and largely successful. you have to take this very seriously. >> we have just learned a close aide to the former president is also indicted to the case in addition to donald trump, the exact charges are not immediately clear.

>> john: taking to the skies again to deliver the president to the courtroom, this time going the other way. lucas, thank you. sandra. >> sandra: reading, writing and reparations? a new curriculum incorporates the effects of slavery into high school math courses. critics say it's an way to indoctrinate young minds. >> john: sources say an fbi document shows president biden was paid millions as part of a bribery scheme. now all members of the house oversight committee will have a chance to look that document over. one is congressman ro khanna. we'll ask him about the committee's investigation and that document coming up next. >> there was two separate transactions, one that went to joe biden for 5 million, and 1 that went to hunter biden for $5 million. if that's not grounds for criminal activity, i don't know what is. every month? car loans can be expensive and the payments high. consolidate that car

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>> john: house republicans probing claims that a ukrainian gas executive paid joe biden $5 million when he was vice president. claims laid out in a fbi document that republicans on the house oversight committee have been clamoring for. bring in a democrat who serves on the oversight panel, congressman ro khanna. appreciate it. that 1023 form as described by people to fox news contains in it information from a confidential source, has been used by the fbi since 2010, who said hunter and joe biden were paid $5 million each by a burisma executive that he spoke

with. the president was asked about it yesterday. here's what he said. >> bribery allegation, congresswoman nancy mace says there is evidence and the fbi sold out the country. response to congressional republicans? >> where's the money. i'm joking. it's a bunch of malarky. >> john: congressman, you have the ability to look at that document. have you, and if you have, if malarky or possible evidence of bribery? >> i have looked at the document. i am going to follow the ethics and not describe anything in the document but i can say i have full confidence in the president and there are two facts i want to bring up. one, scott brady who was appointed by bill barr looked into all of this in detail in 2020 and there was no evidence or conclusion of wrongdoing. and second, the fbi director has said they looked into all of this and they decided there was

no need for further investigation. >> john: all right, so to that point, let's play out what jamie raskin said at the beginning of this week about that very same point. listen here. >> what i know is that the fbi, department of justice team under william barr and scott brady terminated the investigation. they said there were no grounds for further investigative steps so they ended that. >> john: he said very much the same thing as you did, maybe you went a little further than what you did. here is what bill barr, attorney general at the time, that jamie raskin refers to said about that yesterday with martha on her program. >> it was provided to the ongoing investigation in delaware to follow up on and to check out. >> john: he says it wasn't terminated, it was given to david weiss, the u.s. attorney in delaware looking into the hunter biden financial matters,

that would seem to blow a huge hole in what raskin has said and the white house has said about this document. >> well, i don't think so. because all of us have said that the u.s. attorney doing the delaware case, we have confidence in him, he is as you know, a trump appointee, and if there is evidence he presents i will take him at his word. but the point is that when it comes to this document the fbi director and the fbi has said they had an investigation into it and they didn't think there was anything further. if they wanted to pass it on to delaware, that is within their right. and i -- if the delaware u.s. attorney wants to look into it, that's fine. the question is why are we getting involved in politics. let him do his job, let him present to the american public and i respect his integrity and i believe he'll come up with a fair assessment. >> john: i don't know if it's politics, per se, but the oversight committee believes it has a legitimate oversight role

here in looking into all of this. but i just want to come back as we see the president there getting set to talk in rocky mountain, north carolina, democrats in the white house are using this process which bill barr says was more of a vetting process to figure out where this document should go, democrats in the white house are saying ok, this proves there is no there there, but barr is saying there could be there there and that's why we gave it to david weiss to look at. idea that the 1023 form is irrelevant would not seem to be the case. >> the fbi is also saying they looked into it, and they didn't think there was need for further investigation from their end. so, look, if you want to call people from the fbi, you want to call bill barr in front of the oversight committee and have them explain why the fbi thought there was not a further investigation necessary, that's fine. they can explain why that was the case to the american public. and bill barr is not saying from the clip, he's not saying there was evidence of any wrongdoing,

he's just saying it was referred to the delaware u.s. attorney. i have no problem that they referred that and let's see what the delaware u.s. attorney investigation concludes. i guess the question is why don't we just as a country have confidence in a trump appointee, and his findings to the country. >> john: are you saying then, the oversight committee has no role here, is that what you are saying? >> i rather the oversight committee be focused how we lower prices for americans, how we actually improve the lives for americans economically, that's what they should be focused on. we have someone in the delaware investigation who is a trump appointee who i have confidence in and i think a lot of my republican colleagues, i have not heard them say they don't have confidence in the delaware u.s. attorney, why don't we focus on our job of helping the american people with the pocket book issues. >> john: quickly, if the

president of the united states as vice president potentially took a bribe, you don't think that's a matter for congress to look into? >> i think it's a matter to be investigated and the fbi investigated it and said that they didn't have any further investigation. and so if there was evidence of that, then of course it's for congress. but i trust what the fbi director and the fbi agent said about that matter, and i trust the president and nothing has changed my view on that. if there was, of course, if there was any evidence of that, then that should be presented to the american people and congress should get involved. but the fbi looked at this as did scott brady and they didn't -- they didn't do it and the matter in delaware is about hunter biden, it's not about the president of the united states. >> john: we'll keep watching it from our end as well. congressman ro khanna of the great state of california, thank you for being with us. appreciate it. >> sandra: high school teachers may soon be using reparations to teach their students math.

proposed lessons are part of the latest critical race theory curriculum from the 1619 project. jeff flock has the details for us. what exactly is this, jeff? >> well, you know, it's something that if you think the 1619 project is a good idea, reexamination of american history n and looking more closely the role of slavery and the development of the u.s. you think it's a good idea. if you don't like the 1619 project, it's a nightmare. it's online, and the curriculum is this, if you look at it yourself a better idea than my quick summary, curriculum says should a reparations be paid for the united states use of enslaved labor. if so, what is the basis for these payments, the students will take a look at that. students will apply math skills

like algebra and search into historical wealth gaps in the u.s. and investigate whether or not reparations should be paid to the descendants of enslaved people. supporters of this, like the nea, the big teachers' union think it's a great idea. those who think it's indoctrination, not so much. you may know that there are now 11 cities that we are aware of around the country looking into whether or not there should be reparations paid to the descendants of slaves. also two states, new york and california. i know people make the point california was not a slave state but of course there are some descendants of enslaved people that live there now. we don't know how many school districts are adopting this curriculum, it's fairly new, developed in massachusetts, but we do know based on information a couple years ago is that the 1619 curriculum, which consists of a whole bunch of other stuff, that has been viewed in about 3500 classrooms around the

country in all 50 states. so check it out yourself and make your own decisions. sandra. >> sandra: we will. thank you so much. jeff flock, always good to see you. thanks so much. john. >> john: canadian wildfires, sandra, bringing another day of dangerous smoke to parts of the united states. things are better in new york and washington than they were in the last couple of days. now it's sparking debate on capitol hill over how to make sure it doesn't happen again. >> sandra: plus, inflation and wages. why it still feels like your paycheck just can't keep up. our econ panel is here. >> 63% disapprove of biden's handling of the economy. and it is precisely the inflation that has slammed worker wages into the ground.

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>> sandra: off camera conversations, i'm still digesting that. prices for groceries is what we are talking about and other essential items are still on the rise in this country and americans are struggling to keep up. now new numbers from the hiring site indeed show wage growth is cooling off sharply and that could mean more trouble for the hard working american family. let's bring in our panel, dan greenhaus is here, chief economist and strategist, steve more, former trump adviser. so the picture we are trying to put out there is because we all watch the numbers closely and people at home are told it's a great economy for you. we hear this president tout his economic policies but poll after poll show people do not like the way they feel, they are concerned about their financial situation, steve. administration is touting that prices are coming down, that's true, but from historic highs created by current policies and

meanwhile, wages are dropping. so you wonder why you are having a hard time catching up. >> a couple numbers for comparison. when trump was president four years, real median income for the average household went up $6,600, we are proud of that, a hell of an achievement. in biden's first two and a half years in office, the average middle income family has lost $3,000, why you played the clip from larry kudlow, why are people feeling financial distress, they are getting poorer. 20 of the last 23 months, sandra, wages have fallen behind prices. one other quick thing. every time i go out and people say to me why do you keep saying inflation is only 5%? people feel the things they have to buy are rising a lot faster than 5%. >> sandra: dan, this is an administration, i don't know, either in denial or they are not really looking at the numbers because this is biden's wall

street journal op-ed saying never bet against the american economy, fewer americans are behind on mortgages, real income is up 3.4% since i took offers. our economy recovery is the strongest of any major economy. my goal now is to protect and build on that progress. >> we can talk about numbers all day long. let's just look at how people feel and traditional relationship between what we call consumer sentiment surveys, how do you feel about the current environment or the future, and that is closely, except today people's sentiment is low, even though the unemployment rate is very low. >> sandra: my mind is blown, how is that the case? >> has to be a reason why the people say they don't feel great about the economy, and almost surely is the increases in prices and to build on what steve said, today the general

price level for goods that the average person is going to purchase throughout the economy is almost 20% higher than precovid. that's a level of price increase we basically have not seen since the early 1990s and decades before that. >> sandra: that is remarkable, you mentioned our good friend larry kudlow, his response on biden's economy and inflation's impact on wage growth. >> people do have jobs but they are losing money after inflation and taxes. reagan called it take-home pay. under biden, it's take-home pay cuts. >> sandra: are we still in position it pays for some americans to stay home, steve? >> we loaded up on the government benefits, no question about it and so we were paying people a lot of money in terms of food stamps and housing subsidies, cash payments and that lasted way, way too long. now hopefully the debt deal we just passed will require more work, but by the way, did you know, sandra, that the debt deal only requires 20 hours a week?

i don't know about you, but you are working more than 20 hours a week, the people watching the show are working more than 20 hours a week, how is that a full-time job. biden credit, the jobs market is strong. something like 8 to 10 million job openings. >> because of his policies? >> no, that's the point. he boasts in the wall street journal piece, the president, look at all the jobs we created. almost all of those jobs, sandra, were simply jobs that were, you know, that had been lost during covid. so you know, to say oh, i've created 30 million jobs -- that's what we lost. >> sandra: steve tried to leave us off with an optimistic note. dan, can you attempt one? >> the rate of price increases is slowing down, so it's not getting as bad as it was. and by the way, sandra. one area where joe biden is the world class greatest president ever, he's increased the debt more than any other president in history. he didn't mention that in the

op-ed piece. >> sandra: no, but he says he's better than the deficit for any president before him. endless pinocchios from the "washington post." thanks so much. >> john: president biden speaking at a community college right now in rocky mountain, north carolina, while his student debt relief promise remains in limbo. could he suffer consequences for young voters for not following through? ari fleischer coming up plus this. >> city councils are passing legislation that makes it absolutely miserable and impossible for police to come out and do their jobs. >> sandra: d.c. police calling for change, crime spiralling out of control as the city passes an ominous milestone. not flossing well? then add the whoa! of listerine to your routine.

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>> sandra: trouble on the tracks. a stunning collision between a freight train and semi truck stuck on a north carolina rail crossing. that happened yesterday in wingate, about 30 miles southeast of charlotte. residents say it's the third crash along the tracks this year. another major derailment on the other side of the country, a freight train carrying new cars went off the tracks in northern arizona, about a half hour west of flagstaff. 23 rail cars blocking both directions of the railroad. no one was hurt in either incident. and when you see pictures like that, it's hard to believe that's the case but goodness. >> john: i guess the driver was trying like heck to get it off the tracks, and he jumped out before, and amazing nobody was

hurt. >> look at this. wow. >> john: as we leave the tracks, president biden at a community college in north carolina where he narrowly lost to president trump in 2020, there to talk about workforce training programs but the big promise to pay off $400 billion in student loan debt remains uncertain. joining us now is ari fleischer, former white house press secretary to bush and fox news contributor. the student debt relief program, what the president said about it. >> folks, republicans in congress led an effort to pass a bill blocking my administration's plan to provide up to $10,000 in student debt relief and up to $20,000 for those who received a pell grant.

>> john: the president taking aim at republicans saying oh, they were trying to stop your student debt relief program now it's in the hands of the supreme court and could find out next week or after that, ari, whether or not the supreme court likes it. do you expect, given the make-up of the court, the president will take a similar tactic if they shoot it down? >> well, i think the mr. president is going to continue to try to fight for this. my more fundamental question, that is why. why in our society should anybody have their loan forgiven for any reason unless it's impossible to pay or default or go into bankruptcy. that you have an excuse for. everybody else, if you take out a loan, pay back your loan. and there's nothing special about students, john. we all -- every stage of our lives have taken out loans, whether it was for school, whether it was for a car, whether it was for a mortgage, whether it was for a boat, you name it. people take out loans.

and the government should not say we are here to rescue you from paying back obligation that you voluntarily took on for yourself, and that's what's wrong with this program, and i hope it gets struck down by the court, and i hope congress is able to stop it if it doesn't. >> john: i just want to pause for a second here, ari, and change topics quick, sort of throw this at you. fox news alert, we understand special counsel jack smith who was looking into the classified documents case is going to be making a statement at 3:00 this afternoon that comes on the heels of news the president has been indicted on seven counts related to those documents. and ari, when we take a look at this, what do you believe are the political implications for the president now that a second indictment has come his way? some people might suggest it just strengthens his hand, he didn't seem to be concerned about it, he was out on the golf course this afternoon.

>> i think there is 0 question it's going to create another republican rally. when your opponent uses the power at his disposal through the justice department to indict you, makes one side of the equation say the deck is stacked. especially if you didn't do it to hillary clinton with a similar fact pattern donald trump has. shoot, even almost all his opponents in the primary taking donald trump's side on this. so, that's the immediate impact. i think in terms of 2024, who knows. but what we do know, if there are trial dates, those dates will be just as important as the primaries, won't they, if donald trump wins and prevails, just as big as winning new hampshire or iowa. >> john: we should point out the indictment has been unsealed, we should get a copy soon as we bring in sandra to join us in the chat. >> sandra: ari, trying to get a look at what we know so far. we do know obviously this is

unsealed, the trump indictment has been unsealed in this specific case involving the mishandling of classified information. the a.p. has put that on its wire, it's citing people familiar with the matter that have seen the indictment have told the associated press the indictment includes seven separate charges. so obviously it's in the details here, ari. we don't yet have those. amazing the amount of judgment leading up to that without seeing what's in it. >> one, i can't believe the biden administration is bringing that charge. i think it is a terrible mistake, it's not good for the country. nobody is above the law, this is the targeting of your political opponent and they didn't do it to hillary, they shouldn't do it to donald trump. the second point, this is the price donald trump is paying for being sloppy with classified information. i've held a lot of classified information and the president has to have a process to go through to declassify.

he can't just wave a magic wand and say it's all declassified. if somebody gave me a document that said top secret on it -- go ahead. >> sandra: i have to get these in here, the specifics, this is now what is being revealed from the unsealing of that indictment. it shows that the former president showed and described a document about a plan of attack prepared for the defense department, that is just one of them. also prosecutors are charging the former president with a scheme to conceal. also this is just coming in pretty fast here, u.s. prosecutors are charging him with false statements. u.s. prosecutors charging him with corruptly concealing documents in a federal investigation and withholding u.s. government documents or records. i'll get your reaction as we learn more.

>> well this goes back to the two points i'm making. one, i don't believe the department of justice has a good legal case to make here and i cannot wrap my arms around why they didn't go after hillary clinton she did so many similar things that donald trump is alleged to have done now. i think it's a mistake to elevate it to a criminal violation of the law. they got their documents back, the government should be satisfied. but, i do want to make the point that donald trump was sloppy and everybody around him was sloppy. he never should have left the white house with classified documents, and once it was brought to his attention he had them, he should have instantly and immediately returned them. that's what you do if you make a mistake and you have classified documents in your possession outside a scif and mar-a-lago was not a scif. the secret service protects the president's body, not documents. a scif is designed to protect documents. so you know, i just -- there is a sloppyness here where the president thinks, the former president thought he would willy

nilly declassify anything. and if i saw a document and held it in my hands says top secret, oh, it's been declassified, or the president said it's been declassified, unless that top secret was crossed off and the declassification marker put on with a signed signature, i would have still considered that document classified. there's a process and processes should be followed. if they are not followed, you can get in trouble and that's what's happened here. >> sandra: adding to that, the indictment says classified documents included information on u.s. and foreign countries defense and weapons capabilities, u.s. nuclear programs, potential u.s. and allies vulnerabilities to military attack, and plans for possible retaliation in response to the foreign attack. we have the indictment, we are going through it. thank you, ari. >> john: thanks, ari. good to talk to you. described the classified document sounds like what was revealed in that taped interview

that he did when he sat down to chat about the book that mark meadows, his former chief of staff was writing. andy mccarthy, so andy, obstruction is the big torpedo in the water here as jonathan turley has described it and there is some description of that in the unsealed indictment, says that trump among other things suggesting his attorney falsely represent to the fbi and grand jury that trump did not have documents that were called for by the grand jury subpoena directing defendant walt notta, also been indicted, his personal assistant, to move boxes of documents to conceal them from trump's attorney, the fbi and the grand jury. suggesting that his attorney hide or destroy documents that were called for by the grand jury subpoena, and i know you have not had a chance to go through this yet. on the surface how are you struck by what we are hearing?

>> well, first of all, john, to the extent we are told seven counts in the reporting last night, there are 38 counts, i believe, it's a 44-page indictment that we are all still scrolling through. what i would say about it so far is that like john turley, i have been saying all along i thought the obstruction was going to be the big kahuna here in the sense that what we understood about the facts they had issued former president trump a grand jury subpoena and they had caused, or he had caused, according to the theory, his lawyers to give false information to the fbi to be transmitted to the grand jury about whether he had turned over all the stuff in his possession. what i'm struck by reading the indictment now, first of all, it's very detailed, it's a narrative indictment, it's not a

bare bones thing just talking about the statutory offenses and the first almost three dozen counts in this indictment are related specifically to classified documents. that is you know, to the extent that we were led to believe that there might be 1 or 2 classified documents counts, in fact there are over 30, and what they have done, i think, is taken the most sensitive of the documents and charged them as separate counts. i think that also gives us something of a read on why they moved the case from washington to florida because to the extent a crime here would be like, for example, moving something from unauthorized place a in florida to unauthorized place b in florida. there wouldn't be venue to try that in washington. so i guess it looks like what the prosecutor did, realize if he wanted to bring the case he had in mind, the only way that

you could bring that case fully was to indict it in florida. so that's what they did. >> sandra: the indictment also lists one of his aides as a co-conspirator. on the portion of the indictment about the audio recording that we have just recently learned does exist, this was july 2021, the indictment details at trump's national golf club in bedminster, new jersey, andy, during an audio recorded meeting with a writer, a publisher and two members of his staff, the indictment reads, none of whom possessed a security clearance, president trump showed and described a plan of attack that trump said was prepared for him by the department of defense and a senior military official, i'm reading directly from the in diement, trump told the individuals it was highly confidential and secret, and also said as president i could have declassified it and trump said now i can't, you know, but

this is still a secret, and that is in the indictment, andy. what is your reaction? >> well, i think there's -- there's two claims to analyze this, sandra. one is the legal one and the other is the political one. on the legal side, this shows intent and knowledge on his part that he had documents that were classified that he wasn't allowed or able to, or legally able to communicate that to people who didn't have classification clearances, and the fact that he's handling the documents the way that he handled them with that knowledge is going to be very good for the prosecutors in terms of proving what they have to prove for the trial. on the political plain, i personally have never been blown away by his claim, his lawyers won't repeat in court and no documentary evidence of that he declassified everything.

because declassification, even if he did it, let's assume for argument sake that he did, even though there's no real evidence of it, it wouldn't be a defense in an espionage act case because it does not speak about classified information, it speaks about national defense information. even if he declassified everything, it wouldn't matter he had declassified it and with respect to obstruction, they gave him a subpoena, it was obvious they did not want to get into the issue of whether the information was declassified or not. the way they articulated in the subpoena, to say you must turn over all documents that have physical classification markings on them. so since he would have had to turn over the documents with classification markings no matter what, it does not matter whether he declassified them. but he has made this his public defense so to the extent he's

done that, this tape undercuts that, but i must say i never thought of it -- i never thought much of it as a legal defense in the first place. >> john: what the tape does is prove, i think, you know, you can go to a matter of degree here as to what kind of documents he actually had, was he showing them to people. but just, it seems to suggest here according to the department of justice in this indictment a pattern of trying to keep documents from people because he wanted to use them for his own personal record, his -- just to have them in his possession, i'm not sure exactly why he wanted to keep all of these things, but in terms of, you know, whether the document was a national defense document or whether it was a letter from kim jong-un or what, it's the obstruction part that's the crux of the case, is it not? >> i think it is, john. because one of the things that former president trump i think wants to argue and he'll want to

argue it to the jury just like he wants to argue it to the public, is that he's being singled out here, that this is the selective prosecution, that you know, hillary clinton got a pass, biden got a pass, or is going to get a pass, pence got a pass, but they have singled him out to prosecute him and i think what the government is going to want to come back to that and say is that anybody in america who provided a false statement to the grand jury under oath would be prosecuted, that's not a selective prosecution, it's the kind of thing people can easily wrap their brains around that you know, you are not allowed to do that, and that they could imagine themselves being prosecuted for that kind of conduct. so i think that's why this case is more of an obstruction case than a document retention case, and the other political aspect of that is the democrats, including the biden justice department, want to distinguish trump's situation from biden's

situation, and the obstruction conduct is what allows them to do that. because what biden will say is i was completely cooperative with the investigators, i let them oh consented to searches of my home, as soon as we found documents turned them over, so they could account for everything. by contrast, they are going to show trump fought them every step of the way and tried to hide stuff from them. >> sandra: the indictment says several documents concerned military activities, we now know, reading through the latest, we know the president is travelling right now, he is expected to speak very soon, he's been asked a bunch about this on his interest in so far, a lot of reporters have peppered him with questions as he's been walking about and he has refused to answer any that we have seen so far, so we'll certainly be listening for any white house reaction. andy, it appears 3