it was clear this was going to happen. the only question was when. granted a monday meeting with special counsel and to other officials. the lawyers notified he was a target obviously headed for the first indictment for president of the united states. >> they go after him just like the russia hoax and all the others.

they can't stop because it is election interference at the highest level. >> the unsealed indictment and engaging in a conspiracy for military documents. florida grand jury returned including one including the espionage. classified documents taken from the white house. culminating with the fbi raid at mar-a-lago. making the first on camera statement. >> and indictment was unsealed charging donald trump with violations of laws and obscurity to obstruct justice. violations of those laws put our country at risk. >> i may meet court on tuesday night. a partisan case.

this is serious business. may or may not have a greater impact on the republican presidential front runners campaign. i am howard kurtz and this is media buzz. ♪ the charges against former president trump have rocked the media and political world with news outlets and commentators immediately picking sides. >> it is pretty aggressive to go after your political opponent on something you're probably five times more guilty of. >> it is a garbage prosecution. let's just accept that. >> it has been so beyond the pale that if this had not happened, i think i would have started to question whether there was a rule of law. >> if it is not a great narrative that tells something about donald trump and his recklessness, fast and loose

with national security. >> the gop base, not standing for a party that allows its de facto leader to be relentlessly targeted, it may be even and. >> running around with their hair on fire for the past three-four years. law and order law and order law and order. the last people that when donald trump does things that would put this in jeopardy. >> l.a. and chief of a fox news contributor. in new york howard ford cohosted the five and a former congressman. donald trump is presumed innocent. time for the country. most are defending the former president. mostly grappling with the indictment which is accused of repeatedly holding back and hide in classified documents and

rather attacking the justice department. >> it is so important. i do think people would be willing to hear from the department of justice. willing to indict the top political opponent and tear that in good faith. if we had not experienced what we have a justice who was hillary clinton that was never president and will never be a president has classified information and invented a new legal standard to simply let her go. we have all the paperwork disputes with president obama, president clinton. we have threats of documents by a clinton associates. we have a collision hoax and the department of justice invented and participated in a democrat conspiracy theory see to say donald trump was a traitor. joe biden accused by a very serious whistleblower of a

bribery scheme and the fbi worked to cover it up. they are talking about the broader concept. nobody takes a department of justice seriously as long as a failed to include evidence and participated in this hoax over and over and over again. howard: i will push back on that point again. there does not yet. to be evidence of some bribery scheme. i don't want to get sidetracked. the new york times says this is a trump playbook going back to whether or not there is a real estate editor. trying to discredit anyone investigating. >> first off, happy sunday morning. mollie hemingway are points that should be taken seriously about the larger context. i was brought up in a household

that was said that two or more things can be correct. one should not offer as a defense my best friend did it or the guy that does not like me did it or my teacher did it. i think some of the president language, calling for special counsel names that i do not want to repeat, our own network this morning former reports of candidate and current officeholders making really inflammatory comments that speak to violence. what i cannot understand here in this case are two things we now know where we are. i do not understand the efforts made to retrieve these documents if president trump really believed he was entitled to take those documents. he was told that reports suggest that you need to return the document said he chose not to. the center of this legal dispute is what i can gather.

his lawyers believe the documents he was retaining wherever he may be retaining them are governed under the presidential records act. mr. smith believes they are governed under the espionage act. >> a self-inflicted wound. whatever he took from the white house if he had returned it, there would be no case. we would not be sitting here taking it. >> this, the presidential records act versus the espionage act. we will have to wait and see how a jury determines that. howard: have to wait and see a more detailed defense from the president's side. mollie, three things from the indictment. i understand hillary clinton, joe biden, the clintons, i get it. this all comes from insiders. two people, including a member of trump's pack, you should not be showing this it is classified but the military was not going wrong.

now indicted to move some of the boxes before trump's lawyer completed a search. pointing to his own lawyers involving the archives trump said what happens if we just do not respond at all. would it be better if we told them we do not have anything here? these are very specific allegations. >> they are very specific. they come from a department of justice that we just learned again fails to include exculpatory evidence when they are indicting people as part of the russia gate collusion hoax. when getting spy wards to spy on a presidential campaign that they knew about that and they did not do anything to fix it. there is no doubt for the department of justice to do what they have been doing for many years which is try to imprison the top political opponent. i think anyone who believes the department of justice without, you know, without any kind of scrutiny for what they have done

is an iq test at this point in the broader media coverage should focus on, yes, you say something about a self-inflicted wound, a self inflicted wound that we are experiencing in this country is a department of justice tried to destroy this country do not perception but reality of two standards of justice. two people on the left talking about rule of law. rule of law means one rule that everybody is held by. nobody thinks we have one rule of law that everyone is held by. we think we have one rule of law for allies of the regime and another law for people that make life difficult for the regime. that could destroy a country in the media needs to cover that with the seriousness that is required. we are getting bogged down in a group that is lost credibility. chuck grassley said he no longer believes the fbi and is not to be trusted because of what they have done. howard: maybe there was other evidence as you say. i know a lot of people do not

trust doj. this was a result of an investigation were people that were at merrill lago working for the former president, this is what they had to say. if media just, it is hard to say overcome this because it is such a historic situation, but do they need to cover the debate or should they cover the indictment in the form presidents defense? >> so, let me be clear. president trump is innocent until proven guilty. the justice department has that burden. two mollie point, there will be opportunities for that evidence to come forward. my understanding of how these conversations before and indictment occurs not with the justice department, but any justice department -- hold on one second -- lawyers on both sides meet. if you believe your counsel or should say your client is about to be indicted you have an

opportunity to present those things in that meeting and i do not know what happened in that meeting, i assume that happened in the meeting. until there is a trial, democrat, republican, media, anybody, the president deserves the greatest gift that we have, the presumption of innocence. i will save the indictment is one of the more incredible documents that i've ever read with regard to the specificity that is included there. it talks about witnesses that are either former lawyers of the president and others who have been close to him who are now under oath. which is unique in a charging document like this. having said all of that, mollie is right on one regard we will have an opportunity to cure the president who has pledged his innocence. i wish he had not expressed it with some of the enthusiasm and encouragement from some of his supporters but he has every right as every american does and we will see if he is right or the justice department is right. howard: i don't know if calling

the prosecutor a lunatic helps his case, but he did do that in georgia. kevin mccarthy said it is unconscionable for a president to indict the leading candidate opposing him. trump himself said biden is trying to deal his leading political opponent. biden, any president does not have the power to indict. i am not aware of any evidence that he intervened with the justice department. isn't that sort of overstating it? >> understating it in the sense that it is not just biden. it is the entire democrat party. the entire corporate media complex in other parts of the regime that are literally trying to imprison their top political opponent or maybe even worse. this is something that we associate with the soviet union, third world countries, one of the things that makes us good as we do not imprison our political opponents. this is not against something that came out of the blue out of a good-faith investigation. the very fact that they were investigating this person is the

example that there is not one rule of law that everyone is governed by. president obama and it goes on for years and it is very gentle. they have been trying to call this person a traitor for years. a lot of people are worried about how it may destroy the country and that level of seriousness needs to be relayed in the media conversation and unfortunately the media are so anti-trump they cannot do that. howard: i accept the need for the conversation. accuse president biden of doing it there ought to be some evidence. how do you think this affects a campaign or not? >> i do know it looks as though president trump has not lost a lot of standing among president hundred republican voters. howard: if you are running for reelection in tennessee and these were reported against your opponent, would you make an issue of it?

>> well, i think, rightly so people would ask questions about it. innocent of these charges, i would hope that he or she would ask for a speedy trial to try to get it resolved before the election. howard: let me get a break and we will talk more about this subject on the other side. chris christie, mike pence jumping into the break. immediately asked about donald trump. ♪ we're reinventing our network. ♪ ♪ ♪ fast. reliable. perfectly orchestrated. the united states postal service. i'm gonna pull over and stretch my legs. i think you were supposed to keep left there. hmm? what is this place?

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♪ howard: two more top republicans jumped into the presidential race this week and immediately interviewed about donald trump. >> a lonely self consumed, self serving mirror hog.

not a leader. >> why do you have to be angry all the time? that is what donald trump has done. >> he does have a credibility problem in that sense. he was so close to donald trump, endorsed him, helped him with the debate, et cetera et cetera. >> do you think the former president did not uphold his oath to the constitution so how could you say you could support him if he is a nominee. >> i don't think donald trump will be the nominee. >> i do not see much of a grain, but if it is it is a guy that stood up for the u.s. constitution. >> chris christie has publicly proclaimed that he will be the jersey guy personally pummel donald trump. the media is giving him plenty of air time to do so. >> a candidate saying the things that they also say. whether that works with the republican primary voter is very much disputed. the vast majority of republicans

voted for donald trump not once, but twice. they are very pleased with how his presidency went in terms of the economy and foreign policy and beginning to secure the border. a lot of these anti-trump attacks, i think they are designed for a media audience. >> the coverage of mike pence i think has been more respectful. a lot of journalists admire what he did on january 6. then he also said i am proud of the trump pence administration and the pundits say that is a marbled message. >> i'm not a republican but i think what i care former vice president saying is there are things that they accomplished prior to january 6 and prior to november 2020 when president trump began an effort to suggest he had won the election, i think vice president pence believe that a record of appointing judges and cutting taxes and doing things. that is not my political forte, but you have to give them some credit there. i think as it relates to how

president trump, what i was trying to say before, i think he will do well with republican voters still. the question becomes does all of this -- even admissions to some of it from a standpoint that he thought was governed by different acting joint documents to people. how does that play with independent voters in michigan and arizona and georgia and some of the other states where we are likely to have very close contest next november if indeed former president trump is a nominee for the republicans. >> the overwhelming front runner. maybe just some exhaustion on the part of voters with all these investigations whether they are fair or not. mollie, almost all the arrivals of donald trump are lying around him on this indictment. weaponization of federal law enforcement. tim scott, a justice system where the scales are weighted. mike pence, no one is above the

law, but the indictment should be unsealed so americans can judge and of course that happened that day. are they just trying to avoid alienating the supporters to help their own candidacies? >> talking about the media coverage, the think that always gets left out are the voters. a great question to ask. the republican voter is not really any question about how they feel about this latest option by the department of justice against their top political opponent. there is really no option for anyone who cares in any way about the republican party to have any thought about this other than the department of justice needs to be stopped before it fully destroys the country. i do think that is why you are seeing some candidates do that. i think the entire republican party does not realize what a world of hurt they are in unless they loudly condemn and stop

this with one voice. maybe joe biden had nothing to do with imprisoning his top opponent but maybe mayor garland did. >> garland turned over the investigation. he did have the power over rolled but he did not. >> a prosecutor who tried to take out a previous republican candidate, the former governor of virginia was overturned nine-zero. just the placement of him in a highly political thing is another thing. garland has politicized prosecutions and republicans want action taken. >> on the point that mollie just made, it sounds like the question of the justice department, selective justice, the actual evidence against donald trump, i do not think that there will be particularly a speedy trial could become the overriding issue. this is just kind of the first couple of waves. the media always gets good

ratings went trump's center stage. do you think this will be the issue, at least in the primaries? >> i don't know. listening to mollie, one would think not. there are a lot of things that mollie i said this morning that i agree with. what i do not agree is that the justice people don't trust the justice department. there is an assumption if there is a in the white house and the justice department indicts one it must be political. if a democratic president, democratic administration indicts they will counter and vice versa. i think that is wrong. there are some elements that mollie is saying that need to be answered in this regard. the sweeping kind of indictment for lack of another phrase of the justice department on that front, i think, is unfair. howard: we have to go on that point.

mollie hemingway thank you for joining us. pga tour and the saudis. why so little attention to the country's horrible human rights abuses. ♪ your work is your calling. it drives your days and powers your nights. but if your teeth no longer work as hard as you do, aspen dental is here with smile replacement solutions that work for your life. whether it's your first step, or a fast fix, you can get in today for all your denture needs, all at an affordable price. right now, get 20% off dentures and make your smile work for you again. call or book online today.

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join the millions already taking ozempic®. ask your health care provider about the ozempic® tri-zone. you may pay as little as $25 for a 3-month prescription. ♪ howard: the deeply troubling merger between the pga tour and saudi arabia stunned at the players and this was played down in many stories puts professional golf embed with the murderer regime. here is a pga commission last year talking about the 9/11 attacks and what he said just the other day. >> i have two families that are close to me that lost loved ones. my heart goes out to them. have you ever had to apologize for being a member of the pga tour? >> any hypocrisy, i have to own. nobody else.

that is on me. it should not be directed at the membership. it should be directed at me. howard: joining me from new york a new host, charlie. how are the players taking being blindsided? especially those that have remained loyal to the pga, passed out millions of dollars and they end up part of the same leg anyway? >> that is the important detail that you just said. the players that passed up the opportunity to go to live golf and passed up a hundred million dollars. now they are seeing some of their counterparts at did make that move in the exact same position they are in right now only a whole lot richer. no one is looking down on the decision they made a year ago. it is a shock to everybody. i think to the players, like you said, also to the broadcast partners. no one knew any of this was going down until it was announced. nbc, espn, a few different

broadcast partners and all of them were left in the dark as far as that's happening themselves. it just came as a shock to everyone because jay monahan changed his tune so abruptly. a year ago it was always about we would never do business with these kinds of people, they are a moral, this is only tearing apart the game of golf do now suddenly it is unifying the game of golf. >> i know there is litigation between the two leagues, it is fine, no hypocrisy for them to say you can charge me with that. that does not make it go away. let me ask you about the coverage. with some notable exceptions, why is it not a major at this story that saudi officials brutally orchestrated the murder -- the second-class treatment of women, it almost seems like it is a brief --

[inaudible] >> listen, i don't think anyone and don't these types of actions. the government is doing business with saudi arabia. so committed to business partnerships within this regime, why is the game of golf needing to be something that is so highly criticized? that to me seems like something that would be taken a little less seriously in this regard. i do not think anyone is necessarily saying it is the right move, but there is the idea of sports washing. something we see with the nba in china. this is not the first example of it, it surely will not be the last. i just cannot help but think that some of the players or the golfers really do not have a grasp of what this really means. asking 9/11 victims to exercise forgiveness as a result of this

partnership that we just all come together this last week which is a really crazy thing for me to hear him say. i do not respect that it all. >> i understand the geopolitical reality where our administration had to do business with the saudis because of their oil, because of their wealth meanwhile hoping to be critical of the abuses. does this attempt by the saudi's to buy respectability on the global stage leave a moral stain on professional golf? >> it is tough. the saudis are already so involved in the sports world in so many other instances. soccer, ww ee regularly hosting events and saudi arabia, they have such unlimited amounts of resources, who is to say they will not be involved in other sports soon enough. i think at the end of the day, everyone want to do the right thing. they want to take the moral high

ground. when it comes down to it, leveling up the competition, people were turning a blind eye to these moralities, what is this gaining me. i don't see it slowing down by any means. howard: thank you for making your debut on "media buzz." good to see you. why senior chairman got fired at just over a year. how his own staff shut down his plans for a straight newse network.isa ♪fi but at the end of the day, you know you have a team behind you that can help you. not having to worry about the future makes it possible to make the present as best as it can be for everybody.

chris licht just lost his job because of a series of blunders. the fear over the trump town hall. days after an article concluded he lost the confidence of his news room. chris licht was hired by the

person that also just fired him. putting don lemon on the new morning show. >> a lightning rod. >> and then firing him. changing cnn from the liberal anti-trump network. net resistance. >> i think that the tone has changed. we are more accessible to different people coming on. people feel that they will get a fair shake. howard: joining us from miami is charlie gasper reno. senior correspondent at foxbusiness network. the staff he took over, did not want to become this network and it's tough to get ratings that way. enjoying the msnbc light version of cnn. >> this is a staff that is loyal to not chris licht but jeff zucker. demonstrated a year ago, a

little more than a year ago, after he had an affair with one of his subordinates, he had been bad mouthing to anyone who listened. >> oh, yeah. >> whatever, however you want to put this, chris licht at a very difficult job. does cnn have to move? if you talk to these people, they would tell you that is the only lane that they really have. you have two big players. boston red sox in the new york yankees. msnbc and fox. their opinion program left in the form of msnbc. can you be, as they were and survive in a court cutting era and other business pressures msnbc. can you emulate their business model?

they came to the conclusion and it is not outrageous that they could. now, the question is, how do you carry out? >> i want to come back to that. why would david higher chris licht part of morning joe, cbs this mornings, never running a large organization without any type of search and why would you not give him a few more months, he apologized to the staff on monday to turn things around. >> the first question that i really cannot answer, i have never asked that, but i can only assume, everybody looks good on paper until they get into the seat. at some point, you have to make a choice whether you will stake here. >> sometimes you get into the boxing ring and you get punched in the mouth. the second part of your question is why did he not support him? it became unattainable. here is what i know from my reporting.

you just cannot have this many self inflicted wounds and do what he needed to do. turn around a newsroom. you cannot essentially have your office on the newsroom desk where you are talking to people every day. you cannot be sort of aloof. you cannot be making these decisions from up here. you cannot have weird interview with places. i was reading way too much about him. if you listen to it, i mean, it sounds like, the atlantic story was so absurd. i think that was the last straw. >> a lot of damage" in their. >> no one knew exactly how much he wasn't cooperating. he followed him into the gym. the gym thing from what i understand, as a matter of substance and style really passed off david. >> chris licht made a lot of mistakes. i have described his task as mission impossible.

>> in one year you cannot turn around this battleship. he did have a lot of resistance from people that did not like him or did not like his style and the ratings had already plummeted by the time chris licht took over. there is something to be said about that. >> let me make a really interesting point when you go back. if you look at the profits, if they did not take the charge for cnn plus, it is almost a billion dollars. they are right there. number two, that is with cnn. i am a business reporter. so i checked it out. look at the ratings. everybody's ratings are down. it is impacting all of us. look at the market share of ratings and overall viewers. cnn is at about 20%, a little

more than 20%. under chris licht it is about 20%. they are still getting the same market share of overall viewers. remember, when you think about it, did not really fail when you compare apples to apples. >> of course there is brandon and all of that. >> that is true. howard: i don't understand why there are so many other news organizations piling on chris licht. behind-the-scenes executive. it is not like he had all of these enemies. let me come back to the point that you made near the top and that is this. the next person they find, can anyone turn around cna in -- cnn. it is not clear that being a neutral news channel if cnn got back to its roots the way it was years ago when i worked there, is that there actually a big audience for that? >> well that gets into an

existential question about cable. i remember i just made my move to newsweek back in the day when it was still a great magazine. i was there about a year and a half and it was gone. mediation gets rid of the weaker players first. newsweek is a show of itself. cnn is one of those weaker players. they make a billion dollars. the real play here is sell it to private equity, trim it down and just try to make it work. that is what will happen here, in my view. then you can ask the cnn journalist, you got what you wanted. maybe you want chris licht back. howard: doesn't care much about the journalism. i think it is all the sudden you are getting a miami. >> good milf. howard: after the break. president biden tells a reporter he has been hands-off. the republicans aren't following ♪ connect your business,

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jersey andy mccarthy and a contributor to fox news national review. andy, is there any evidence that joe biden interfered in this case, in this prosecution in any way? >> you mean, did he bring political pressure on the justice department to bring it? i don't know if there is any indication that there was a conversation about that, plus, you have the problem where there seems to be a lot of inculpatory evidence here. it would be hard to show that the reason that a case was brought was political pressure when there seems to be a lot of evidence of guilt. but i would point out, how we, that this case was made before there was a special counsel. there really is not a legal basis to have a special counsel because you need a conflict of interest between the justice department and the defendant. you do have a conflict between the biden justice department in the biden family investigation, but no conflict between the

biden justice department and trump. >> i know you have handled so many indictments when you're prosecuting, bill bar recorded you today saying if half of this is true, he is toast. my question is, the key point that you seem to make is where is the information, the allegations of what the former president did coming from? who are the people providing this information? >> i think it is an important points. the way that i read the indictment, most of the damning information is either people who were trying to help him, like his lawyers and staff that he had on the premises which it really cannot be denied in fact he does not deny that he had it, maybe some arguments about whether he could declassify it and the like, but he does not relate deny having it. the most damning information comes from his lawyers. >> yes. i think that that should not be

glossed over. trump haters or outsiders. they may be anonymous for now. this may be a strong case on paper. we don't know until the defense weighs in. something you all know is prosecutor tori discretion. a criminal case against the former president. >> this is at the level of seriousness that you would have that. you have to worry about the clinton president. making an atrocious decision which the decision is not a rationale for making the next logical decision. looking very hard at the biden possession of classified information and note that in the indictment that the justice department brought, one of the

main reasons for prosecuting trump is that he irresponsibly possesses information at the highest level of sensitivity in the u.s. intelligence agencies. we ought to get an accounting of what kind of information they found when we spoke to biden if you want to be evenhanded. howard: more plans against iran and nuclear stuff. got about a minute left. you mentioned president biden. he has his own special counsel. the media democratic complexes being sloppy, but he is the one that notified federal authorities about this. >> well, his lawyers notified the white house. howard: i see. >> then they let the national archives know him and they got whipped up about it and notify the justice department. i am not saying that the

behavior is comparable to what trump did where he fought them for over a year in then deceive the grand jury, but let's not pass an award out to him yet. howard: right. no metal. always good to talk to you andy mccarthy. you cut through the legal jargon. thanks so much. >> thank you. >> what really happened with chuck todd leaving meet the press and more. buzzworthy is up next. ♪ ♪ but i manage it well. ♪ ♪ it's a little pill with a big story to tell. ♪ ♪ i take once-daily jardiance, ♪ ♪ at each day's staaart. ♪ ♪ as time went on it was easy to seee ♪ ♪ i'm lowering my a1c. ♪ jardiance works 24/7 in your body to flush out some sugar! and for adults with type 2 diabetes and known heart disease, jardiance can lower the risk of cardiovascular death, too.

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♪ howard: chuck todd announced last week he is stepping down as moderator of meet the press being replaced by white house correspondent. a sharp rebuke of mbc from news nation dan abrams. >> i would rather leave a little bit too soon they had stayed a

tad bit too long. i have let work nearly consumed me. >> he will stay at nbc in twos to relinquish his highest profile role with the 2024 election around the corner. we know that it is almost certainly a lie. >> chuck todd will remain the political analysts may have been pushed. they often sugarcoat their changes. maybe every other story i saw, not even a sentence raising the possibility that the switch may not be voluntary. that is not exactly how we cover politics. tim scott was so harshly criticized on the view that he started raising money off the attacks. then the presidential candidate went on the show in confronted. >> you have indicated that you do not believe in systemic racism. what is your definition of systemic racism? that is a disgusting message to send to our young people today that the only way to succeed is by being the exception. howard: it is good for

politicians to go into the lions den. pbs news hour reporter asked president biden about lgbtq likes she seemed to have a distinct point of view. >> republican led states are passing laws, passing anti-lgbtq, anti-transgender laws that were strict rights and medical care, intimidation is on the rise, i spoke to the parents of a transgender girl in texas who told me they are afraid. >> we have some hysterical and prejudiced people who are engaged in all that you see going around the country. it is an appeal to fear and it is an appeal that is totally unjustified and ugly. >> i don't know if he somehow knew that question was coming or not but he seemed to read from a whole lot of prepared material. that is a for this edition of media buds. i am howard kurtz. check out my daily podcast.

indictments to entertainment. you can skip the ads by subscribing on apple itunes. many of you already subscribe. the main story that we lead with today, the indictment of donald trump will get huge attention. we will see you next sunday. the only media analysis show on national television - how'd you get here? - kayak! they compared hundreds of travel sites to find a great deal on my flight, car, and hotel. - kayak. search one and done. ♪ i like to move it, move it ♪ ♪ you like to... move it ♪ we're reinventing our network. ♪ ♪ ♪ fast. reliable. perfectly orchestrated.

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for a cleaner, healthier mouth. listerine. feel the whoa! ♪ we begin with a fox news alert on a major traffic nightmare unfolding right now on the east coast. i-95 in philadelphia, the vital north-south highway for millions shut down in both directions. this after a vehicle reportedly a tanker truck caught fire beneath a an overpass. as you can see, a portion of the highway has collapsed. hello, everyone is welcome to fox news live. >> thank you for joining u