♪ ♪ howard: it was wall to to the wall on all three cable news networkses from early morning until late at night, the day that donald trump was arraigned in the classified documents case. no other story mattered. that was clear when all the cameras showed the trump motorcade as he made his way from his doral golf club to the miami courthouse where there was just a small group of protesters. we didn't see trump as he pleaded not guilty, but all the star anchors were in place to talk about him. he briefly turn up at a cuban

café, and the process repeated itself as the trump caravan drove are from newark, airport, to his bedminster airport. there's just one reason these channels plowed pd through so many hours, the ratings are always good when trump is on center stage. but when the former president gave a prime time speech to supporters at his new jersey club denouncing the indictment and the biden administration, only fox news carried it live. msnbc ask cnn, which had spent a very long day analyzing and criticizing the republican presidential front-runner, refused to air the speech. are they protecting their viewers from what he has to say? and some folkses wonder why the media seem biased. i'm howard kurtz and it is this is "mediabuzz." ♪ ♪ howard: ahead, a sit-down with jason miller, a top adviser to the former president. and attorney alan dershowitz on

the strengths and weaknesses of the case. donald trump's scripted and somewhat subdued speech hit many targets, and there was, not surprisingly, a deep divide among the anchors and commentators. >> the most evil and heinous abuse of power in the history of our country, very sad thing to watch, a rut sitting president had his top political opponent arrested on fake and fabricated charges. it's a political persecution like something straight out of a fascist or a communist nation. this day will go down in infamy. the prosecutor in the case, i will call our case, is a thug. i've named him deranged jack smith. >> i think we all have to be cognizant of every minute of every event that happens is how he's distorting and programming this to his base. >> now, despite all the naysayers, his support is still very strong and perhaps,es this

is unprecedented among modern political figures, but instead of asking why that might be, our sneer being and vindictive press corps, they're just out for blood. >> you will notice of all of the noise out there, all the ground noise, nobody is saying he is innocent. nobody is saying he did not commit the crimes that will put him in jail for over 100 years. >> here's the doj with the fbi striking once again, stacking 37 charges against donald trump including violations of the espionage act for allegedly misif handling classified material -- mishandling classified material while giving biden, just like hillary, a free pass. howard: joining us now from new york, will cain, cohost of "fox & friends" weekend, and liz claman, host of "the claman countdown" weekdays at three eastern. will, i promise the next

question to you will be about the the cases involving hillary and bill clinton and joe binding but just to deal with the indictment at the top here, and the media are making this into the crime of the century, but aren't there some troubling details such as trump on tape saying, well, maybe we'll tell the archives we don't is any more -- have any other classified documents which he did? >> a standard of president, we will talk about biden and hillary in just a moment because they matter to this story. howard: we will. >> i will take up joe scar boar with row on his standard that nobody is professing donald trump's innocence. that's not the job of the media. it's not to arrive at a premature conclusion. our job is to follow the truth, and until we have the details, withhold from an unfindable conclusion. that being said, yes, howard, there are some details in this including if there is an audiotape saying, well, this isn't classified, take a look, i

should have declassified it but i didn't, that would be a very, very troubling detail. but it has to be said as well, there should be a healthy amount of skepticism on that premature conclusion because there's been nothing burger after nothing burger, impeachment, the russian hoax, the ukrainian call, what was it, the bounties on u.s. soldiers coming from russia? so many stories have been breathlessly reported in the beginning and turned up nothing burgers which demand some appropriate level of skepticism today. howard: right. skepticism is good, convicting somebody in advance is not good for the media. liz, what should the press do when donald trump uses inflammatory language to talk about the doj, jack smith, fabricated indictments and says he he had every right to take whatever documents, classified documents he wanted from the white housesome. >> it's a good question because that is actually not the only thing that the former president has said. first it was i had every right to take the documents.

he then switched it and is claiming that maybe some of these documents were planted. and if that is the actual case, why didn't his own attorneys -- and this is just something that the media should be bringing up -- why didn't his own attorneys include that in the any of their own filings? but the overall picture of the media coverage here, howard, is really important to look at because had they not covered the arraignment, then they would be accused of ignoring something that is his or toic. in fact, even concern historic. in fact, even on my business show on fox business, we kick off the final hour of the stock market trade, but we had a very earnest discussion in the morning about how we were going to cover it and whether we would, and we decided to weave in some live shots, we did have a reporter live on the scene because this is historic and unprecedented. howard: right. will, i'd like to get your take on msnbc and cnn blowing up the bedminster speech, but as promised, are the media trying

to minimize the cases involving classified documents, no charges against hillary clinton, no charges against joe biden so far even though he also has a special counsel investigating him? >> yes. so the dismissive way to characterize what i'm about to tell you is to say i'm indulging what about-ism. this story is less about whether or not donald trump is guilty of the alleged crimes, the story is more about whether or not these alleged crimes have warranted prosecution in the past, and we have precedent. we have, for example, joe biden and mike pence where there have not been charges brought forward. somebody will say, well, will, that's not about whether you mishandled classified documents, it's about whether you obstructed justice. then i would say, okay, what about the precedent of hillary clinton when had 33,000 e-mail, many of which were classified and many of which were destroyed with software? there were no charges, no

investigation that resulted in charges in that case. that's also compelling precedent. and even when in the past again more precedent, howard, when there was charges brought, sandy berger and david petraeus, it amounted to two years of probation. the point is, as a liz has said, this is historic. this is major. for a political rival to be arrested, you might fall back with on precedent. you might look at our past and say do we do this, and you will come up with an inevitable answer, no, we do not do this because it is historic. howard: right. well, jim comey said no reasonable prosecutor would bring the case against hillary, but it was a judgment call. they just as a easily could have indicted the former secretary of state. i want to play for you, liz -- and all of us -- particularly cnn and msnwc viewers who didn't get to see the speech from the bedminster golf club, what donald trump says he will do if he is elected again to the white house. >> i will appoint a real special prosecutor to go after the most

corrupt president in the history of the united states of america, joe biden. [cheers and applause] and the entire biden crime family. howard: so, liz are, isn't that the same kind of pure politicization for which he is now criticizing biden and biden's justice department? >> well, we've talked a lot about decisions that are made in the so-called fish bowls of television networks, cable networks, and there are all kinds of decisions and things that play into why certain cable networks do not cover certain events such as this one. but exactly what president trump is saying is that there is that double standard. and i would argue, i would just clarify one thing, howie, that when it came to mike pence, the former vice president, and the current president joe biden, there's two issues here. one, markedly different behavior. both coughed up the documents

right away. hillary clinton couldn't because she did, as will mentioned, delete a lot of this. however, she did answer questions with the fbi, and is it wasn't just james comey, it was two different trump doj heads. that would be the a.g. jeff sessions and bill barr who declined to bring charges against hillary clinton. so what do you say about that? if that was his own justice department who declined. >> a justice department that has shown very, very biased choices in making prosecutorial decisions on when and when not to bring charges. i think that's the easy understand to that one -- answer to that one. as to the mike pence and joe biden turned over their documents readily, i find that incredibly uncompelling. it's a lit like a thief who -- a bit like a thief who stole some goods from a store and after another thief was caught, i'm going the turn those back over. i don't find it laudable behavior to voluntarily turn

something over, it's not like you were a attempting to do the right thing. you just saw somebody else get this in trouble. the fact that they had all these document, joe biden in his case, has he turned everything over? i don't know. it was well over a decade that he maintain towned those documents and now he urns them over and we're supposed to go, bravo is, joe, that was great, you voluntarily turned over your documents -- >> and mike pence as well. howard: i would just add that in the case of joe biden, this is going back to the sound bite i just played, there's no evidence he even discussed the trump case with the department of justice. you can criticize the department of justice, that's fine, but i don't see any evidence of personal intervention by the president. liz, trump even said in a social media post that the justice department probably, that was his word, planted the secret documents. and i find that a lot of journalists just let it go. okay, donald trump is making a charge again that he doesn't have any evidence for.

is that the right stance? >> well, which part do you believe? even his most loyal followers may be scratching their heads. we've heard some of the members of even the right-wing media talk about, well, which are we supposed to believe? did they plant it or was he able to basically declassify documents just by thinking about it? he admitted that that he had taken them, and he had said is i took them and they are mine to take. then it's, well, maybe they were planted, and then he changed that story and said that they had put them sloppily on the floor of the carpet. which is it? i just think that that it is a question that has to be asked, and so maybe people are kind of waiting for the next accusation -- >> quickly on that, howard? can i just say, your right, there's no -- you're right, there's no evidence to donald trump's claim. but at the same time, the fbi's asking you to trust them as well, and have they earned the benefit of the doubt? one last point on the media

story, we keep seeing pictures of these bathrooms and ballrooms full of boxes? you know, i believe it's 135 documents, i don't know how many page, but, you know, it was greg kelly on newsmax who held up how much -- howard: right. >> that would be one box, less than a box, but they keep showing us pictures of hundreds of boxes. that's not designed to help us understand the truth of the situation. of. howard: well, i would just add that in these other cases you didn't have the people dethefying subpoenas as in the trump case. let me just pick the point that a quinnipiac poll found little change in trump's ratings, 37% approval, same thing as before the indictment. and so he is once again, has, you know, undying loyalty, maybe even more loyalty from the republicans who support the former president, and that also completely overshadows all the people who are running against him. when we come back, kevin mccarthy rips cnn for paying former obama officials to attack donald trump. ♪ ♪

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howard: kevin mccarthy went at it with a cnn reporter challenging why her network employs former fbi deputy director andrew mccabe and former director of national intelligence james clapper. >> you can't put words in my mouth. even though your network can hire andrew mccabe who was fired from the fbi for leaking classified documents. did you remove him from your network? no, you continue to put him on. judgment against president trump, so your network hires clapper who literally lied to the american public, one of 51 other individuals that had briefings and is use used it politically to the tell the american public that a laptop was russian collusion even though it had all this

information about the biden administration. my -- as a policymaker is that when you weaponize government and now you're weaponizing networks, that is wrong. howard: liz, every network including fox hires ex-administration officials, but does the speaker have a point that cnn in paying people and glossing over their controversial past is giving them a platform some of theme people who have investigated or hate trump? >> well, particularly on andrew mccabe, that's a little -- as my kids would say -- sus -- [laughter] because he is so, so very much at the center of all of this. but if you look at it at 30,000 feet, cnn cannot catch a break. they took a huge amount of incoming fire after the trump town hall because they said it was incredibly unfair, it was stacked, people did not like it maybe even on both sides is. howard: yeah. >> but you did have a very, very heated can discussion over that. but this morning on their morning show on jake tapper,

they had -- and this is the complete opposite of an andrew mccabe -- mike turner, the chairman of the house intelligence committee. jake tapper specifically asked him, now, this is a gop, trump backer big item time. just a couple of months ago he had intro'd trump at a big rally, and he said, he called it a grave concern that these allegations are out there, and he said i'm to not going to defend the behavior in the complaint. howard: all right. >> and he even said is i have the utmost respect for bill barr. even then cnn can't catch a break. howard: will, your thoughts on clapper, mccabe, etc. >> yeah. on that clip you just played, two things stand out to me. the question is, is cnn or my other media institution covering this in a way where they would lead you to believe they're in pursuit of the truth and protecting some deeply-held american principles or they in on the -- are they this on the reality show of trump.

andrew mccabe did the exact same thing, and you hired him. joe biden having classified documents dating back to his time as vice president is and/or senator, that's important because those sins are greater than that would be of donald trump. the president has heightened ability and authority when it comes to classified documents. the lower you are, the bigger restrictions on you having classified documents, so their hypocrisy is stark. and the we could, in the hire -- and the second, all of these 51 intelligence officers that blatantly lie about hunter biden's laptop being russian disinformation, it's a lie. and from what we see is you're not actually in on this on any real principle, you're not a truth seeker, you're just in on the reality9 show with your favorite villain, donald trump. howard: sometimes i think we're all in on the trump reality show. here is a sound bite of some people toughening their rhetoric a little bit against the former are president. >> and the conflict in there is awful. >> this indictment contains series charges, and i cannot

defend what is alleged. >> president trump was incredibly reckless with our national security. howard: nikki haley said if it was true, what's charged in the indictment, and also that she's a military spouse. liz, are the media encouraging these republican rivals to be more aggressive against donald trump? >> encouraging? well, these people could turn down the opportunity to be asked that question. howard: they could. >> it's going to be the most obvious question, they all ready be -- better be ready for it. chris christie this morning came out with a whole litanyny -- litmy n of people who president trump had fired, how he had complimented them at first and then did -- doesn't matter what any of these candidates say is. donald trump is sucking the oxygen out of the room, and that helps donald trump. howard: will, i've got about 20 seconds, but it does seem like it's hard for the other candidates to get air time unless they're talking about trump.

>> they're looking for a lane, and i hope they'll each personally forgive me for suggesting that politicians read polls, politicians look for lanes. they're all fining a lane to try to get some support back from donald trump who dominates the republican primary. they're trying. howard: yeah. they all say they don't realize poll, but we don't buy it. liz claman and will cain, thank you very much. ahead, top trump adviser jason miller on the former president's indictment, but next, pat say jack calling it quits and paul mccartney using a.i. to bring us a blast from the past. ♪ ♪ earchoice dental implants makes every day... a "let's dig in" day... mm. ...a "chow down" day... a "take a big bite" day... a "perfectly delicious" day... - mm. [ chuckles ] - ...a "love my new teeth" day. because your clearchoice day is the day everything is back on the menu.

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howard: conservative pundits are ripping joe biden for inviting a trans activist rose montoya for a gay pride event after posing for a self-ty concern selfie. she posted this video of ripping off her top and exebb posing

herself. the white house says she's banned from future events. montoya has belatedly apologized. fred ryan is out as see wrote and publisher of jeff bezos' washington post, he's had tensions with the staff because he'ses also on the board of the reagan with presidential library and has preside over layoffs and a big decline in subscriptions. ryan told variety this was about the decline in civility in politics and he's creating a center on public city civility at the reagan presidential foundation. ♪ >> wheel of fortune! howard: pat sajak is leaving wheel of fortune, and before you get thed idea that he was eased out, the man is 76 years old, and his final season will be his 41st. that's a long time presiding over do you want to buy a vowel? the show has given out more than $250 until prizes, still averages 8 million daily viewers, and sajak's personality

is what's kept it going. fox news briefly9 put up a bannerrer that went too far on the day of donald trump's arraignment referring to president biden. wannabe dictator speaks at white house after having his political rival arrested. fox said in a statement the chyron was taken down immediately and was addressed. the the denver nuggets are pro basketball champions for the first time in the franchise's 47-year history after beating the miami heat but, man, is this team underpublicized. it's in part a because its superstar is not exactly a publicity how long. >> you are an nba champion, north carolina -- nikola. how duds that feel? >> it feels good. the job is done, we can go home now. howard: could he be any more excited? more than 50 years after they broke up -- ♪ ♪ on our way back home, we're

going home ♪ howard: everyone knows i'm a beatle fanatic. paul mccartney told the bbc that new technology will allow them to extract john lennon's voice for, and this is awesome, another song. >> so when we came to make what will be the last beatles record, it was a demo that john had that we worked on, and we just finished it up to be rereesed this year -- released this year. we were able to take john's voice and get it pure through this a. i.. so there's a good side to it ask then a scary side. howard: that's what most people think. the beatles' continuing popularity is just as miraculous as a.i., and a new book with of photos, he talks about the fun of sparring with the american press. next on "mediabuzz," one of donald trump's top advisers, jason miller, on the media, the indictment and more. ♪ ♪ ♪ i like to move it, move it ♪

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howard: with the former president under fierce criticism from most of the media as they cover his indictment in the classified documents probe, joining us now in washington, jason miller, a senior adviser to donald trump. jason, welcome. most politicians facing these charges would be toast, their campaigns would be over. what do journalists not understand about donald trump's republican supporters that an indictment like this either hases no effect at all or boosts their allegiance to the former president. >> i think what a lot of things people forget is the fact that president trump has been going through some aspect of the witch hunt for seven or eight yearses now p. i'm old enough to are remember e when we went through russia, russia, russia, mueller, mueller, mueller, ukraine, ukraine, ukraine, so for those of us particularly who were with the president in 2016, 2020 and now 2024, we've been through this before. i remember going through 2017 and 2018 where the media had breathless reporting every day,

there was some kind of leak or detail, president trump, we've with got him this time, and then it turns out president trump was completely innocent. i think in this case when they start moving forward, they'll see that president trump declassify these documents, they're his to keep, and the media is working hand in glove, in my opinion, with the doj to take these leaks, and it's really a politicization of our judicial system which the majority of people if you look at recent to polling would agree with me on. howard: what's your reaction when former chief of staff john kelly told "the washington post" that trump is scared s-less? >> couldn't be further from the truth. john kelly is a hater. he's entitled to his opinion, but president trump, his poll number, i think, are reflect the fact he's continuing to take this race head on. he's going up, in fact, leading joe biden in midwest of the head to head polling, the real clear politics average has president trump leading in the general election. and really when i see president trump now and again having been

with him in the first two campaigns, the level of focus very much reminds me of the final three weeks of 2016, every day saying we're going to go win this race. it's for the future of the country. we have to do this. and i think the american people look and say, president trump, you believe what we're todaying, we're going to stick with you. howard: yeah. even though we're more than a year out. i know folks sympathetic to trump who say this is a self-inflicted wound, that there would be no case if he'd just given back the documents as some of his lawyers recommended according to "the washington post," and you're taking some flak from the right. >> little bit, a although with the journal you have to put an asterisk next to the conservative. they're very much anti-president trump -- howard: not always. >> most of the time. i don't think they necessarily tried to hate it that much. i think keep in mind in 2017, 2018 it's always been we're going to get president trump. this is going to turn out poorly for president trump. and time after time the

president is completely cleared, completely exonerated. and so i think as we go ahead into this go-around, you see where you have the weaponization of our judicial system, you see what alvin bragg is doing, what jack is doing. by the way, jack smith, not the best track record. we saw that bob mcdonald case was overturn by the supreme court unanimously. that's not a good look. i think the same thing listen here. -- will happen here. howard: jack smith has prosecuted or attempted to prosecute both democrats and republicans. why has donald trump been on this media blitz going back to the cnn town hall, he's talking to bret baier tomorrow despite the indictment in he's out there, and you would expect politicians maybe to lay low a little bit. >> well, right now americans are seeing weakness in the white house with joe biden. there was a line the other day about god save the queen was just by, to see joe biden falling down, stumbling, there's weakness at 1600 pennsylvania.

what americans want is strength. president trump definitely demonstrates strength as a leader. if the doj is going to play the game where they're trying to weaponize the judicial system, they're going to play the game of leaking things to reporters trying to make everything about trump 24/7, then we're going to go a take it to the next level, keep our foot on the gas and headache this race about president trump continuously, all the way through. we're going to take all the oxygen out of the room, make this a referendum on the fact that president trump brought us the greatest economy we've ever had, no new wars in ukraine, elsewhere. we're going to make this all about president trump, but we're going to do it in our terms. howard: so this is deliberate strategy. how would you contrast with ron desantis? >> yikes it just hasn't been good. his kickoff to his disastrous trip to nevada, the more people see and hear about ron desantis, the more his numbers go down. i think his superpac has spent upwards of $20 million, and ron desantis has lost about 20

points over the last couple of months. there's a big difference going from state level campaigning to the national level, and to go up against someone like president trump, you have to have a theory of the case. right now ron desantis' theory is he's going to outtrump president trump with all these trump victories is a pathway to -- voters is a pathway to victory. that's not going to happen. 95% of republican primary voters believe that american men and is women were better off financially under president trump. howard: well, he's certainly far ahead right now, as everybody knows, trump has always been a counterpuncher. i get it. what does he gain by calling jack smith a thug and deranged? >> this is his political pushback. we see the attacks that are coming from the doj and, again, the way these leaks are happening from the doj and also the fbi, it's not always the doj, sometimes it's the fbi that's leaking as well.

they're running a political campaign. they though that joe biden in a head to head with president trump, joe biden's going to fare terribly. he's a terrible leader right now. and so the do doj is making this political in the way that they're attacking president trump. president trump's going to give it back to them. you said he's a south puncher, i don't think floyd mayweather has anything on donald trump. howard: trump made a video the other day in which he attacked former a.g. bill barr with, gutless pig, very small brain, mick mulvaney. isn't donald j. trump the guy who appointed all of them? >> well, look, i think as president trump learned with real estate, you learn something new in every single deal. of course there'll be some people that don't get invited back when he becomes the 47th president of the united states, but a lot of good people as well. people helped to build the economy -- howard: i don't think those guys are getting invited back. >> they won't, but also too president trump's ready to go on day one. he doesn't need eight years to figure out what he wants to do.

he knows what he wants to do literally day one. keep in mind back to 2016 after president trump won, the stock market started going up even before president trump's inauguration was business leaders knew that he was going to create that business climate, that friendly economy that would get things moving. whether it be ending the killing that's happening in ukraine right now, whether it be with securing the southern border, things are going to start to go into effect, i think, or getting prepared for before president bush's d president trump's even in office. howard: at least at the moment, the indictment is dominating everything and making it hard for the other candidates who you say can't get much oxygen. when we look at 2024 and especially a general election, are you concerned that some people who like donald trump are just going to be exhausted by the endless investigations and chaos and want to move on? >> elections are about choices. you're going to have joe biden on one side, you're going to have president trump on the other side. and when people take a look at

the economy, where inflation is just killing households all around the country -- howard: it has come down a little bit. >> going from 5% to the 4% -- ow howe throw it out. >> you don't get a participation trophy when inflation's going up at that level. we see the chaos in ukraine, the way that china is rising -- by way, the whole thing, the balloons were an accident, you only say that if the ccp has something on you. howard: i've got half a minute here, and i guess the question is when you think that the country, it's a bad thing for the country to be put through this. >> well, i think it says something about the media when they cover it around the clock in very breathless fashion, literally the car motorcade going from where the president's staying to the courthouse -- howard: i talked about that at the top because donald trump is good for ratings and, of course, they spent all day talking about it, and then msnbc, cnn didn't air his speech.

>> neither did the broadcast channels. they cover the motorcade, but they don't cover the president's actual remarks. there should be equal time for joe biden as well, there should be a camera on joe biden 24/7. the american people deserve to know just how terribly he's doing. howard: jason miller, thanks for coming by. after the break, alan dershowitz is on deck. ♪ my most important kitchen tool? my brain. so i choose neuriva plus. unlike some others, neuriva plus is a multitasker supporting 6 key indicators of brain health. to help keep me sharp. neuriva: think bigger. my name is joshua florence, and one thing i learned being a firefighter is plan ahead.

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howard: my next quest is a lib call democrat who has frequently defended donald trump but now sees a mixed picture. alan dershowitz, veteran attorney, former harvard law professor and author of "get trump. "alan, you say the case is stronger than you expected, ask one part of it you say is particularly damning, the tape of donald trump with the iran war plan either showing it to or at least brandishing it before a political aide and saying as president, i could have declassified this but now i can't. why is that crucial? >> because it's an admission on tape which can't be cross-examined about the fact that he knew at least one piece of evidence was not declassified, so it undercuts the claim that he declassified everything. so that's a strong piece of evidence. but it derives from, i think, an improper targeting of donald

trump. so it is a mixed picture. howard: right. >> they targeted, that wasn't proper, but they got him. they came up with something from his own mouth. you know, there's a famous plaque of a fish, a stuffed fish and it says on the bottom if i had just kept my mouth shut, i'd still be swimming, and i think that's true of donald trump. all of his problems growing out of the indictment are from things he said both to this writer and then to his own lawyers. now, the own lawyers can be challenged because i think the lawyer-client privilege probably should cover what he said. but his own tape recorded statements to the writer is going to be very, very hard to contra that district. howard: well, on that point, "the washington post" reports that some of trump's lawyers on more than one occasion tried to get him to settle9 with the national archives, and the former president refused. in other words, if he had given the documents, i'm sure there would be no criminal case now. isn't it true, do you agree -- as you told "the wall street journal" -- trump did what he

always does, he attacked jack smith and resisted his efforts. oh, okay. i guess i will go to break because we lost the connection to to alan dershowitz. we'll bring him back in just a moment. ♪ what, are we rich?! ♪ ♪ are we rich? we could get a personal chef! i heard about this guy on the news that, that serves a very rare species of fish. highly illegal. he's wanted by interpol. we could have his scary fish whenever we want! - we're not rich... i used kayak to compare hundreds of travel sites to get a great deal on our flight, car, and hotel. - oh. - kayak. search one and done.

howard: and we're back with alan dershowitz, author of "get trump." sorry about the technical difficulties, that's television. i was asking you about donald trump not falling the lawyers' advice and just giving back these documents and you write in the "wall street journal," trump did what he always does, he attacked jack smith and resisted his efforts. you would know firsthand, can he be a difficult client? >> he can, but it doesn't mean

you should be prosecute for a crime when you're running for president against the incumbent president. there has to be the strongest possible case to justify that. i call it the nixon standard. in nixon's case, he destroyed evidence, he bribed witnesses, and republicans and democrats alike wanted him to be removed from office. that standard hasn't been met here. and in order to prosecute somebody who's running for president against the incumbent, it has to be not only a slam dunk, but it -- dunk, but it has to be inescapable. and i think the country would have been better off if he had not been prosecuted even though, clearly by his own admiration missions, he -- admission, he did possess classified material. also nobody should mention the word espionage here. this is not an an espionage case. he didn't sell to enemies, he doesn't hurt the national -- he didn't hurt the national security. this is a documents case. and the question is should you bring a documents case even if it's a strong documents case and

interfere with the election in this way. i think that's a hard, hard question. howard: yeah. it's a difficult call. since it looks like there will be a trial, do you think -- probably unlikely, but do you think the trial should be televised? >> i don't think, i know for 100% certainty there's never been a better case to televise. this country is horribly divided. nobody trusts the media today, with all due respect -- howard: well, you're right. >> so what you're going to see is two different accounts of the trial. you're going to see one account on cnn and msnbc and another account on other channels. and the american public has the right to see for itself the evidence and to assess the evidence, to assess the judge's rulings. the judge is being much criticize ised for a previous ruling which i think she was absolutely right on. but the american public should have a right to view this, and there are exceptions to the federal rule. the united states supreme court heard argument on the overruling of roe v. wade, they allowed that to be broadcast. not telecast, but broad with cast so they could -- which they

should make an exception here. this should definitely, without a doubt, be on television. and i think the vast majority of americans, democrat, republican, pro-trump, anti-trump want to see this trial for themselves. howard: you make a strong case. you say that a special counsel in this case, smith, has one job and that's to investigate the hell out of the target. but is that fair to smith who was defended by merrick garland the other day is and is a veteran career prosecutor? what would be the alternative if we didn't have special counsel in this situation? >> very simple, you create a special counsel, but you give the counsel a broader mandate to look into the entire problem of people who are this office, leaving office and taking material home with them. you have them investigate biden, clinton the, pence, sandy berger, look at the whole problem in contextif then decide comparatively whether there's enough to bring a case against anybody if. but when you assign a special

counsel to one person, to a hammer everything's a nail. and to a special prosecutor, the only evidence that matters is the evidence against this defendant. and then jack smith dose in front of a press conference and says there's one law, it should apply to all. how would he know? he didn't look at it comparatively. he looked at it only in terms of donald trump. there's something very wrong institutionally with special counsel targeting an individual. it's not about jack smith personally, it's about the very institution of special counsel with one target. howard: yeah. that's why congress got rid to have the special prosecutor, the i way these investigations are handled. are the media fairly reporting on this indictment, or is there a assumption that comes through in the coverage not just television that donald trump is guilty? >> no, they're not fairly doing it on either side. when you flip channels, you see either he is guilty beyond a

doubt of the worst crime and he must be prosecuted under the rule of law, or he is the subject of a witch hunt and there's no guilt at all. you don't hear nuance. and what's missing is nuance. today walter caron cite couldn't get a job in the media because he didn't pick sides. [laughter] ask that's what we'ring asking -- and that's what we're having in the media today. it's red sox versus yankees. when i used to be a red sox fan, i would still stand up and cheer when jeter came in. i understood a great player. today that's not the case. if i stand up and say, look, i don't vote for trump, i don't like his politics but i think he was targeted, i'm hated by both sides because i didn't pick a side. howard: yeah. i've got about a minute left, alan, do you see an emerging legal strategy to delay this case with all kinds of appeals and is motions until after the 2024 election? >> it won't be a problem to delay it until after the

election. usually a case like this is isn't tried in less than a year, so we're talking 15, 16 months instead of a year. so probably we'll see the new york case tried before the election, very, very, very weak case which will not help the case against trump -- howard: yeah, i agree with that. but you say it won't be a problem if donald trump is elected, he'll shut it down, another republican is elected, could pardon if trump. changes the chemistry. >> there's no question about that, but it doesn't change the politics. you know, ford did a great thing by pardoning nixon, but he lost the presidency as a result of it. is so political considerations come to bear too. and maybe that's the way it should be resolved in the court of public opinion rath they are condition rather than the court of law. >> alan dershowitz, thank you very much. that's it for this edition of "mediabuzz." sorry about little glitch there. happy father's day to all the dads out there, and i hope

you'll subscribe to my daily podcast, media buzzmeter. we cover everything from donald trump to the beatles. as i usual wily close the show, we are back here next sunday at 11 is eastern. i hope you will join us then. what we have here is not only a show that tries to be fair, but the only media analysis show on national television. ♪ ♪ because it stinks. ♪have you tried downy rinse and refresh♪ it helps remove odors 3x better than detergent alone. it worked guys! ♪yeahhhh♪ downy rinse and refresh. pepcid complete works fast and lasts for powerful heartburn relief. with an antacid that starts working in seconds- and a acid reducer that relieves occasional heartburn all day. other brands can't do both. pepcid complete.

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learn more at getrefunds.com. mma star connor surfacing in manhattan this week and as a new video is seen that could affect the sexual assault claims against him. seen signing autographs for fans outside of a ritzy hotel in manhattan. this is attorneys calling those charges against him, nothing about a shake tampered hello everyone welcome to fox news live i am eric shawn. of course happy father's day to all the debts were with us to today.