element in all of this. and the five souls that are aboard the submersible titan that went down on sunday to go see a fantastic site, the titanic remnants. the search has been mighty, we are in day five. now the discovery of debris. a news conference coming up at 3:00 p.m. eastern. we are all over the developments and we are still holding out hope. "outnumbered" now. >> fox news alert this hour. the u.s. coast guard says a debris field has been found by a remotely operated vehicle in the search area near the wreck of the titanic. the coast guard will be holding a press conference at 3:00 p.m. with more details. all of this comes as the oxygen supply for the sub's five man drew has likely run dry and rescue operations are now entering a critical phase. mike tobin with more. >> well, that's certainly

discouraging news for the people that have been hoping for a miracle as you mentioned, the oxygen supply had run out, got release from the coast guard this morning that a remote operated vehicle, rov off the canadian ship horizon atlantic had located a debris field. that was the ship that we got the announcement early this morning that put the rov down to the depth of the atlantic, and it had been searching around, as well as the rov off the french ship. so we are waiting on more details. we know indeed it was from the horizon atlantic ship. all of this in spite of optimism people close to horizon maritime who are close to families, the joint rescue command center and halifax announced a ship arrived with medical professionals who specialized in diving injuries. they were carrying on board decompression change bet

-- chambers for people that would have decompression sickness for the amount of time down there. the search to the south of where i am now has indeed been very active throughout the entire process. you've got the ships that are out there deploying the rovs, others that are searching. there's a giant crane system that's here in st. john's, being ready to deploy at any point. but still you have discouraging news. encouraging news that sounds had been detected as recently as yesterday described as banging sounds with 30 minute intervals, indicating it wasn't made by anything natural, but discouraging with sounds the fact with all of the technology they couldn't identify the sounds or say definitively it was man-made sounds and couldn't pinpoint location of the sounds. you're still talking about searching an area roughly twice the size of connecticut and depth that's just about 13,000 feet. when you talk about 13,000

feet, the highest of the colorado rockies is 14,000 feet. you turn over one of the rocky mountains and start searching in that kind of depth. it is a staggering search. the fact they found a debris field, discouraging for people holding out hope. we wait to hear more from the coast guard when we get the presser at 3:00 p.m. >> mike, quick question for you, the debris field, no clue it is related to the titan specifically, could be unrelated debris. likewise i would think if they found an intact submersible, the u.s. coast guard would have looked different. >> i think you're right. gives more reason to not be optimistic. given the fact it would take a miracle for these people to survive at this point because they should have run out of oxygen at some point this morning. the finding of the debris field leads to speculation that all of the hope that was held out was futile, and indeed you had a

catastrophic failure pretty early in the process. of course, that's speculation on my part, we have to wait until we hear from the coast guard to hear something definitive. >> harris? >> you know, all of the recent reporting that showed that the ceo had been, you know, deposed basically by the media quite a bit, there's quite a bit of sound from him and also quotes from him. one of the ones that stuck out to me was what he said not long ago about, you know, just how prepared they were. and he said that the only thing that really gave him pause or that he was concerned at all about was the integrity of the hull and whether or not it would be able to, not the hull necessarily but its ability to ascend, whether it would be able to make an emergency ascension. then i had an expert on last hour that brought up the same thing separately from that. saying the only thing i could imagine would be catastrophic is if they couldn't ascend in the way

they needed to. i wonder if that's among reporting that you gathered. it came from the ceo, it came from the separate expert, also who had been down there coincidentally. what are your thoughts? what have you found? >> well, he has certainly been criticized and in fact sued with the allegation that he cut corners on safety. if you look at his interviews and things that he said, he got around bureaucracy to advance the technology and advance ocean exploration which he felt was very important to him. so when you have a situation like this, certainly people are going to look at what's in the lawsuit because the affidavit attached to the lawsuit is going to include all those accusations and all of the criticisms that he skirted safety. the thing is, there aren't many of us that know anything about deepwater exploration and fiber and alloys and things to that effect, we're left to read it and read it first pass and then wait for some kind of definitive answer, harris. >> real quickly, this is a quote from the ceo,

stockton rush. i mean, if you really want to be safe, don't get out of bed, he said, this is what he told "the washington post." don't get in your car, don't do anything. at some point you're going to take some risk and it really is a risk/reward question. just how much that ceo and sub captain loved the thrill seeking that he was doing and sharing with so many others. emily. >> mike, i note that the lawsuit you mentioned earlier which a couple sued oceangate for fraud, the allegations, it focused on them not receiving a refund for a trip just like this one they would have taken, that they never got money back that they paid for it. among reasons given for it being postponed included equipment failure. of course, that suit remains to play out and we hope there's no correlation with the situation here. however, it does raise questions. one i have for you, mike, what are you hearing boots on ground with naval

experts that might have hypotheses about what happened or what faced those five souls. >> that's tough to say. the primary source has been the coast guard and information coming out of the boston area. what we see here are rescue ships ready to go. you don't have a lot of personnel hanging around at the port of st. john here talking with people, they're kind of standing by, waiting for orders. we're seeing military aircraft come into the area, bringing in equipment. as far as any speculation about integrity of the hull, i would think even the maritime experts unless they're involved in deep sea exploration, they're really not going to be able to weigh in on the integrity of the carbon fiber and alloy hull. but you can go to the lawsuit and look at the one lawsuit you referenced, really was a lawsuit over a refund. so it doesn't necessarily apply. i think any tour group, and certainly tour groups

that do high risk activities have to cancel tours from time to time, if they don't refund money right away, it is not necessarily germane whether this vehicle was safe. the other lawsuit was from one of the other engineers with the company, accusing the ceo of making shortcuts in terms of safety. that becomes a little more relevant and there's a lot of details in that. probably more than we have time to go through here in this program. >> mike, it is kennedy. i want to ask you about the whistle-blower that worked at the company, david lockbridge. he filed suit against the company and actually was a whistle-blower, the company sued him for disclosing confidential information, and they settled that out of court. was there ever any official reprimand for the company based on some of the issues that he raised because, you know, now we're hearing since the vessel has disappeared that there are a lot of people within that small community who had specific

issues with that craft itself. at this point is there a legal paper trail that would lead us to conclusions about some sort of implosion or other accident? >> well, there certainly were a lot of people who criticized the company for shortcutting safety and we saw that come out of the lawsuit in some of the interviews that surrounded it, but we're just going to have to see how it plays out. you have a lot of criticism. they didn't get a chance to mount their defense other than the ceo of the company. he suggested that the whistle-blower himself was not qualified as an engineer to comment on things like the hull structure. >> interesting. i wonder what kind of insurance policy you have to buy in order to secure a $250,000 seat on a vessel like that. >> that's a great question. yeah. that's a great question. mike tobin, we ask that you stand by for a moment. we are bringing in molly

line. we were on the air as this was breaking. any reaction yet from the company, oceangate, which ran the submersible? >> not that i am aware of. i can say throughout the course of covering this, we haven't got a whole lot of information from the company in general across the course of a couple days, so that's really where things have stood as far as getting additional information. there are a lot of questions about the technology on the sub. as you mentioned, hope about the 96 hours. we would have loved clarity along the course of this unfolding story about some of the technology and emergency measures on board, about potentially safety measures that might have been in place. so they may have more questions to answer as this continues. plenty of folks have questions of those that on board have questions. >> we don't want to lean too heavily on the

company, but they ran the submersible and this was their ceo who chose to be, you know, the captain on this particular trip. real quickly, from where your vantage point is, what is the search like now? sometimes on a scene you and i as reporters look around, can read the urgency or not. >> yeah. we're standing just outside of the base here in boston, this is the coast guard base where they've been holding the briefings and they have consistently brought the information to us when they could, scheduled the briefings. today's briefing at 3:00 instead of 1:00 and 1:30 on prior days. right now, we think they're gathering information from the rov, with plans to clarify what they're gathered from the rov aboard the arctic horizon, a massive research vessel that powered out there to get to that location just very recently, get this rov in the ground down to the site of the titanic which

we know is where the titan sub planned to go. that's what we are expecting, in the next couple of hours, they're going to gather the information, analyze, and bring us some details, hopefully more so, about the debris field that's been found near the wreckage of the titanic. >> molly, as the investigation uncovers details you mentioned, do we know now exactly where the debris field was in relation to the titanic and do we know which rov it was, we know the ship it came from, any information on the exact rov? >> we don't have specific information on this rov. there are others on site, we have more detail about the victor 6000 that rushed to the site. but our understanding communicated by the u.s. coast guard, this particular rov came off that particular ship which came out of -- so we don't have pictures or further elements about that particular rov other than

clearly can reach these. we don't know if they have video or pictures from the rov, that stands for remotely operate vehicle, we don't know if it has been able to grab anything, touch anything, what precise data has been gathered. those are the questions we look for clarity on when the 3:00 press conference gets under way. >> molly, i have a question for you here. mike tobin, we heard him say at this point we need a miracle to find these five souls alive. we know that oxygen timeline, but i also know that there's some pretty impressive people aboard the titan, hamish harding, set air speed records, dived to the lowest part of the sea bed. impressive guy. any chance lowering the metabolic rate they could have preserved enough oxygen for a miracle here? >> you know, you are talking about some amazing adven

adventurers. the human spirit that taken them to the highest heights and deepest depths. he is one of those that has done that. he soared with bezos on the rocket. thankfully the spirit of humanity has that in them to go to far off places and helped to cover the globe. he is not the only one, stockton rush who owns the company created this adventure that other people have gone on, the father and son team from pakistan, and of course the french mariner, great explorer, all these people have this interest in science, this interest in exploring, and for days now the coast guard has consistently said you know, there is hope. whether or not this debris field changes how much hope the coast guard will be talking about as of 3:00, i guess we'll wait to find out. we don't want to get ahead of that, but of course there's a possibility the debris field could be the

titan sub. we don't know yet. i imagine they're trying to determine precisely what it is. back to you. >> molly, we will come back to you as news warrants. i want to pull away, talk to the guests on faulk in your focus last hour. diver robert pasini. i have been quoting you. now that there's report of a debris field and we have not had it confirmed to fox news or on our own that this is in fact the titan. what we do know is that it is in that area around where the titan and the ship that was monitoring it or tethered to it for a bit, where they were when the titan first launched. your thoughts. >> well, thank you for having me back, harris. a debris field is not encouraging, that would imply that something in assembly is no longer in

assembly or somehow came apart. the wreck of the hit itself is a debris field, but the fact that they're reporting this is interesting. in all the searchs i have done for confederate and some of the major things that happened throughout my career, a debris field usually leads you to the main wreck. as a matter of fact, that's how the titanic was discovered, looking for the debris field. the fact that they've recorded that tells me there's something newsworthy, they've called a press conference at 3:00, and also the fact that it is a will have is not encouraging in terms of survival. >> robert, talk to me, if you will. about next steps. you say this is how they found the titanic. you know what assets are there, the whole nation watched them deploy assets yesterday. >> sure. so the u.s. navy under the supervisor of salvage is the department within the

navy it is called, they operate a very deepwater system called curve 21. it can recover large objects from very deep depths. in 2020 this system embarked on a vessel, a multi mission platform, multi mission ship, this system recovered a helicopter from a depth of 19,000 feet. an f-18 last year blew off the deck of an aircraft carrier was recovered from around 10,000 feet. in terms of recovery, once there's a location and positive id, positive identification, then recovery operation begins. >> you know what, just a real quick question. and i know that we are moving expeditiously, i pray that people were, but many people asked this, too. it took some days in order to get the kind of

equipment that you're describing. in fact, in the beginning, we're not sure anything can go down there and get something. now you tell me there are multiple things that can be down and get something. what was going on there, was that not good information? were we slow? what was happening? >> i'm not sure what happened there. i just know the assets that i worked with during my time on active duty and people i'm in contact with who operate these assets today. i don't know that the navy specifically deployed this particular deep drone, although i fully suspect they did, but again, the capability to recover from that depth, to explore and recover from that depth, it has existed for an awful long time, but speed of deployment in terms of life or death scenario as this one appears to be, you know, there's just no way around that. if it was a military operation, there would be systems and stand by, a primary system, a se

secondary system, all systems go type situation. but this certainly was not that. >> robert, emily compagno. you mentioned a few of those incredible recovery efforts you've been part of. we talked about the possibility of a miracle here backed by things like lowering metabolic rate which kayleigh brought up. have you encountered something like that in your career, in your experience being a search and rescue diver, have you encountered a miracle where somehow people survived, something to give us hope at this moment? >> i haven't personally encountered that. there are certainly stories of that. one story of a commercial diver who was in what's called saturation profile, he was in about 100 feet of water, his surface sup support, lifeline was severed, and the ship drifted off target and three hours later the ship came back and they actually recovered this

person, brought him back to life. then there's apollo 13. that was a miracle in itself. miracles do happen. and i agree with the coast guard captain that they're not going to call it a search and recovery, they're still in search and rescue phase until they're absolutely determined there's no chance of surviveability. >> robert, thank you. we pray and hope for that miracle you mentioned. let's bring in tom maddox, founder and director of underwater metrics. during the 2005 international titanic ex-pedition x. this is a vague term, debris field. what are the chances it could be debris from the titan, if it had gotten entangled in the titanic or debris from an unrelated accident perhaps with another vessel. >> kayleigh, you are absolutely right. i heard the news this morning myself as you did

and it immediately raised questions. for those of us that have been on titanic or even explored titanic in other ways, we know that the bow section and f section or stern broke up and actually split up on its way down, and when it did, it actually separated by about a half mile. the section in between the bow and stern is what we call the debris field, it is commonly known as the debris field, where all of the contents of titanic was scattered as it sunk. so when i heard the news this morning, i wasn't sure if they were, i was kind of disappointed they didn't actually clarify that, they may have just been reporting they touched down in the debris field, letting us know they're on site. the other option could be that they found debris from titan, but again, i'm a little disappointed they

haven't clarified that at this point. >> we hope it is unrelated. we will find out at 3:00 p.m. you have been on a vessel like that, what's it like? >> we dove in 2005 on the russian mere subs. for those that aren't familiar, if you saw the movie titanic, these are submersibles that were used in the movie, in the beginning of the movie. ours were different. three person submersibles, we were in a six foot sphere loaded with equipment, so it became a five foot sphere, and it is very cramped. we rely on power sources for lighting and for scrubbers to clean the air and to tell us where we are location wise and communication. if there was a failure, a massive failure and they're sitting on the bottom without power, then you're in a very dark, cramped area, when i say dark, pitch black. if you have no light sources, flashlights or auxiliary power, they're

in pitch blackness. it is also very cold. as i mentioned in other reports, the temperature on the titanic is about 31 degrees, actually below freezing. the salinity keeps the water from solidifying, but the temperature in that sub, the heat is dissipated in a very cold environment. they're in a freezing situation, dark, cold, obviously fearful and concerned if they're still alive, hopefully they are. but it is a hellish place to be, believe me. >> tom, it is kennedy. quick question, where do you think the submersible was after an hour and 45 minutes when the ship that had taken it to its drop point, when they lost contact. how far deep would they have been and what impact might that have made in terms of an implosion hypothesis, if in fact,

part of the hull was compromised? >> well, that's another good point. we're not really sure. i can tell you from my research, the reading i've done and information i tried to find according to oceangate website, their descent time is two and a half hours, what ours was in the mere subs in 2005. so that would have put them between 8 and 10,000 feet of depth, which is not on the bottom. if they had a massive failure at this point and lost power but didn't implode, they could be negatively buoyant, continued descent, it is a possibility that currents and tide could have drifted them away from the wreck site. so we really don't know where they could be, where they are. there are a lot of possibilities. >> tom, that's what i wanted to ask you. it is harris. so you're on the way down, but if something shifts in terms of your ability to steer yourself, the

currents could take you and put you in different areas. i know i was reading recently where on one of the previous trips a crew guest, tourist, somebody on board said that they lost communications three or four times on the way down and that at one point they had drifted away from where they were going toward the titanic. took them three hours to get back. these things are not anomalies, it happens down there, you're below water. things worked out then though. >> yes. this is a lot different expedition in the way it is run than what we did in 2005. we were using triangulation by sonar buoys on the bottom. in the submersible, we could look to see where we were located in relation to the wreck. when it comes to communications, the sound doesn't travel through water and then through air, so there has to be some type of link, be it some kind of transmission from the surface with an

array dropped into the water. i know in our expedition while the ship, of course, is too deep to anchor, the mother ship would drift off site, they would have to pull up the electronics and we would go radio silence for about 20 minutes at a time until the ship was back on station, redeploy the communication devices, we could reestablish communication. so that dark period was a little stressful, waiting for them to come back online. in this case, they're using text messages and navigation and relied on the mother ship for positioning, so it is a lot different situation. >> tom, can you share at all about the training that you are aware of that any of these passengers would have undergone and would it have included an emotional reaction to the potential for an emergency risk down there, for a safety issue, do you know anything about that for them? >> well, i don't know about how oceangate

operates but in any of these expeditions, people are certainly made aware of the possibilities of problems and even the possibility of death. there's always a risk of that, they're made aware. i'm sure everyone going in there knew and evaluated the risk factor in this case. as far as training, again, i don't know what oceangate provided. for us, it was pretty much on-site training. we were provided with a pilot who was in control. we were in mostly constant contact with the surface, except for dark moments as i mentioned, and we were trained prior to the dive on what to do in an emergency situation. >> and quick follow-up. as you learn, as we all learned about discovery of the debris field, learning where it is in proximity to the titanic, we'll learn more at 3:00 p.m. eastern, what questions do you hold, what questions do you have at this moment that will reorient us to

appreciating what exactly happened or what might have happened? >> well, we're never going to know until the submersible is recovered to determine forensically what actually happened, and then we learn by that. we've had a lot of discussions, people questioning whether these are valuable. i tell people every exploration, whether it succeeds or fails, provides valuable information for us as a civilization and for the world, so we'll know that once we get it, but it's going to take awhile. so we don't know. there are so many possibilities of what could have happened here. we just can't put it together until we retrieve the submersible. >> thank you. >> you know, one question i have for you, again, you've been on submersibles, you know what it is like, you've been there, seen how it is remotely operated, and i see this quote from josh gates, a veteran explorer, hosts a tv series. he had this to say. to those asking, titan did not perform well on my dive.

ultimately i walked away from a huge opportunity to film titanic due to my safety concerns with the oceangate platform. have you heard anything as pertains to the specific submersible the titan or are there just inherent risks in submersibles generally? >> there are always inherent risks in any submersible as in many other things. we're going into the most hostile environment in the planet. it is trying to freeze you, trying to drown you, trying to take away your breathing, it is taking away your sight. it is a very, very hostile environment, and we as humans haven't perfected how to protect ourselves in those environments, just like going in a space ship or a rocket and heading for outer space as we've seen even by our own history that there are risks involved that we don't plan for obviously. so we know those risks going in. we try to eliminate them, but they're always there. the only thing we can hope is for a successful

mission. this one was not successful obviously but hopefully we can learn by it. there's still an outside miracle we can retrieve these souls and bring them back. >> do you want to jump in a second? >> yeah. i would love to ask you about the resources being marshalled not just by the united states but one of the interesting things to come out of this whole experience is the collaboration we are seeing with the canadians, with the united kingdom and their resources and how that's working together across these different countries and different navies, different coast guards. >> that's a great point also. and it obviously brings the world together and this community together. hopefully it will open up future discussions so we can eliminate these problems or at least be able to react faster and better. i know again there's a lot of controversy over this. your previous guest was talking about navy assets being spot on. deploying these assets is

not an easy undertaking. i believe you mentioned maybe -- one source was in the south pacific. trying to get that out of operation, packed up and deployed, it is impossible to do. they gathered the assets they have. you have to remember, this is not an everyday occurrence. we don't have submersibles going to these depths every day, so they're obviously not planned for situations like this. this is going to be a huge controversial subject for the next weeks, months. >> real quickly before we go, kennedy. >> i had a question, if you share the ceo stockton rush's worry that an accident potentially could really hamper innovation. do you worry about that? >> of course i do. you know, just had the

discussion this morning, if the wrooith brothers crashed and died, they would be the village idiots. innovation has its risk. we have autonomous vehicles driving on the road, you see the controversy over that. in order if civilization to succeed, we need adventure and we learn by that. a lot of people are critical of these missions, they think they're for adventure only. i would point out on the previous titanic missions, all together there were over 30 species of creatures identified that had never been known before, so there's always something to learn, whether it be safety, whether it be scientific, weather data, future mining, deep see exploration is something we need to spend more time and effort in and make it so people can be safer doing it. >> i love that you say that. kennedy, i love your question. elon musk, jeff bezos,

richard branson, so many people who if innovation were to stop, these are risk takers, thrill seekers. one even bought twitter which has got to be the kind of ride for your life you hadn't imagined. tom, great to have you as part of our coverage. co-pilot of russian submersible mir-2. your expertise is invaluable, sir. let's go back to mike tobin and do a reset for viewers. if you are just tuning into "outnumbered," no doubt you have at least been privy to learning a debris field has been found. we don't know how it connects with the missing submersible titan, with the ceo and captain for that, that mission along with four tourists on board missing since sunday. an hour and 45 minutes into their launch. they stopped communicating

with the ship above, lost communication. the team let me know when mike tobin is up on satellite so we can go to him. mike, reset for us, and give us any new information you can. >> of course the big and potentially heartbreaking development that came today is that a debris field was found, according to the u.s. coast guard from a remote operated vehicle, operating off the ship the horizon arctic. i had a conversation with la larry daley, a veteran of diving on the titanic in these submersibles. in fact, he runs the logi logistics for titanic expeditions. one of the things he pointed out, if you find a debris field near a shipwreck, there are lots of debris fields near it, deck chairs to flatware and pieces of the ship. titanic has been down there for decades, and people operating the

remote operated vehicle and coast guard know that. you should be able to spot the difference between fresh debris and old debris down there. still, speaking with mr. daley, he said they'll hold out optimism this is not an indication of a catastrophic failure. he believes very strongly in the spirit of the crew out there, absent of anything else to believe, he will hold that optimism as we talked about. you have a lot of people hoping for a miracle. we'll get more details at 3:00 p.m. from the coast guard. >> some of us believe miracles happen all the time. you never know. about this time yesterday, we talked about underwater noises, how that was helping to guide the search and rescue mission. what have you heard lately about sounds coming from an area they're looking at regarding titan? >> we don't have any new information about the sound. what we do have regarding sound is the fact they were unable to really pinpoint the location of

the sound and that is despite using the best technology, including sonar buoys from aircraft to listen for things down there. in fact, we know that the sound was coming, what was described as banging, in 30 minute intervals. now that is an encouraging piece of information, because if it comes in regular intervals, that would indicate it is something man-made, not happening naturally at the bottom of the sea. but what you don't have is really the definitive ability to say this is coming from one location and it is indeed man-made. so you still have a giant search area, twice the size of connecticut, and at great depth. there's not a lot of encouragement from that. >> just a quick point, the u.s. coast guard said yesterday definitively it is not banging, just underwater noise they were trying to identify. wanted to get that in there. >> mike, as we anticipate an investigation that will likely unfold into this, who exactly will be running that?

is that u.s. coast guard initiated or an international body that will participate? walk us through what we might appreciate in the coming days and months about an investigation. >> like most of us, i'm a little new to the deep sea water exploration and forrens imcompetents. you have a maritime society that spends their time not only investigating these kind of things and scrutinizing these kind of things, trying to come up with new ways to develop new technology and explore the ocean. a lot of people, there's an explorer's club. people are enthusiastic, want to explore more of the ocean, develop more ocean tourism, deepwater tourism, but want to do it safely. there are societies, explorer society, maritime exploration society, these presumably will be bodies that will get involved, but also it is serious, you'll have government bodies get involved. right now we are into pardon the term uncharted waters because we haven't had a disaster of this nature before, and this is

partially why so many people are captivated by all of it. >> mike tobin, thank you. keep us updated. bring in dakota wood from heritage foundation and former strategist for the u.s. marine corps special operations command. you know, the question i have, you see the debris field, you go up to a debris field, you're collecting pieces, don't know how big this is or how many debris pieces there are for the u.s. coast guard, but how do you match what you're pulling out of the ocean with perhaps material that would identify this as the titan or another vessel? >> well, we do know it has tie tan yum end pieces, most of the vessel was carbon fiber. that alone wouldn't be materials found in the 1910s, 20s, 30s. it is like an air crash, there are identifying pieces and parts of the plane. everybody knows what the submersible looks like. they've got plans from the company and all, so i

don't think it will be difficult at all, if they can retrieve a piece or have this remotely operated vehicle get close enough for its camera to provide identifying information. i think if they can get in there as your previous guests have said, not a lot of silt or sediment, it will look new, based on what we already know of the submersible, they'll be able to say whether it is part of that or not. >> dakota, we'll be able perhaps by 3:00 p.m., we may know this is the titan or this isn't the titan? >> i really think so. give an hour, two hours or so. again, the submersible right there, if they can get close enough, they'll have a good idea. we haven't had any reports of any other damage or debris or vessels in that area for a long, long time. it either will or won't be. >> what has your gut told you what happened here, have your feelings changed

from when we first heard about its disappearance? >> i think as tom maddox, should have kept him on the whole hour, fantastic reporting, talked about the desending to 8,000 feet or so, loses communications. did it drop like a rock, was it a gentle descent, but inability to communicate meant it was alone on this ocean bottom, very, very compromised in terms of ability to do any contact. so the inability to find it, it is time lost. even if you identify a capsule, getting a crane down there and wenching it back up is several hours from now under the best of circumstances, so i think it is just a heart wrenching story. >> it is kevin walling with a follow-up question on the debris specifically. can you talk about the kind of resources in the water, potential for them

to bring something up from the bottom of the ocean, are they analyzing photos, where is that analysis taking place. we're going to get more answers at the 3:00 p.m. press conference in boston, but certainly the process going on now in the short term, would love to hear you speak to that, dakota. >> side scanning sonar is part of the capabilities of these remotely operated vehicles. you can get dimensional data in a flat sense of what it looks like. you can also get photographic evidence. is it white, shiny, does it appear to be components that are known to be on that vessel, and then if one of these has a grappling arm, some of them do, you could pick up a piece that's not ten tons the weight of the vessel and bring it to the surface. now, that recovery time is additional time on the clock, but physical inspection, bringing it up, possible. visual inspection possible. and sonar inspection,

those three data points will tell us what we're dealing with. >> dakota, it is harris faulkner. i want to give credit where credit is due. this is coming from one of my followers on twitter, jamie garner. he asked can you ask for me, harris, if there's a black box type thing to give us knowledge like on a plane? would a submersible have that? >> depends on the company. a lot of reporting about this particular company, no emergency transponder. they were running a fairly inexpensive operation by using a lot of off the shelf capabilities. all the reporting so far does not indicate there's any transponder or black box component as you would find on other vessels of the same type. >> but dakota, you can buy other things, like i don't

understand that. you lose things that we can afford, i couldn't afford a 23,000 pound submersible, but i could afford other things that come with a beep beep to tell me where it is after i lose it. that doesn't seem high tech. >> yeah, it doesn't go down to 13,000 feet. >> good point. >> and hundreds and hundreds of tons of pressure. so the salinity, temperature, compromise of electronics. the black box idea, completely sealed can deal with those kinds of conditions, it doesn't appear this vessel had that kind of capability. >> thank you. >> a dakota, at what point does a search and rescue become search and recovery? >> i think probably 48 hours, maybe three days. you know, the human desire for hope for some kind of positive resolution, i think it's going to be quite awhile before anybody is willing to give up unless the debris field

is actually identified as being that, pieces and parts of the component, a compromised shell, a hull that appears to have collapsed or imploded in some way, then that really spells the end point for anything that might have survived that kind of impact. if this is a submersible and it is still intact in terms of habit ability, we will hold out hope there are living people inside. >> thank you so much for your expertise. we bring in former member of the fbi dive team. bobby, thank you for joining us during this breaking news hour as we all raise these questions. i want to start with you on one of duration as we continue to discuss the inhospitable, very an tag anies particular climate down there. what sort of limitations are on these unmanned vehicles, so the search and rescue operations being undergone at this moment, is there a time

duration? is there a short window that they can function at those depths, and what would those individual segments look like? >> well, the first one is weather, weather related. the sea state, how rough it gets out there, because you have a lot of umbilical in the water and it is subject to forces of the ocean. these are very difficult vehicles that deep. i operated one myself. had a deep ocean rov with the fbi, we were limited to 3,000 feet, but every foot of umbilical makes it more difficult. that being said, other than that, if you have calm seas, you can operate fairly long durations. you have battery power on the ship, the ship creates its own power, and i think that you have a lot of chance depending on the sea state and weather to do a lot of work there with the rovs, they're advanced and can do a lot of work. >> bobby, it is kennedy. i have a question about the mystery of the sea.

obviously there have been more people in outer space than been to this depth in the ocean. how mysterious is this environment to us still? >> well, clearly, this is a great case of it, kennedy, it is a complete mystery. we have more machines that operate on the surface of mars than the bottom of the ocean. it is because of that extreme environment. it is more extreme at the bottom. those pressures create such force that we have very few things that can operate, certainly manned things, that can operate in those depths. the pressure is too much. i think we sometimes think we have all this technology and military might and we can harness mother nature, but this is one of those situations where mother nature has reminded us that the pressures at that depth and forces of nature can be devastating, even on man-made, you have titanium and alloys put to use, but mother nature

often wins in these types of things. >> bobby, so the associated press was reporting that the u.s. coast guard said an undersea robot sent by a canadian ship reached the sea floor. there was a french research institute saying a deep diving robot with cameras lights and arms also joined the operation. how long does it take these rovs to get there. we know the titan, it was about a two hour journey. >> it will be about the same if not quicker. these have less, there's no humans aboard, there's less problems getting to depth. they can go down fairly quickly. you want to do it slowly so as you pay out the umbilical, it doesn't drift well, you imagine over 12,000 feet, you can be way off from directly under the ship. they're weighted properly. the time it takes is so you can be sure you drop straight down. like we said before,

there's no gps on these things, so you don't know where on the bottom. they have sonar and ship sonar should be able to follow the rov, so they should know where it is, it can get down fairly quickly. i imagine it could get down in less than two hours. >> bobby, kevin walling, you brought up an excellent point in terms of weather conditions we are experiencing above the sea and under the ocean. i want, if you could take a moment, describe some of the constraints. i know there was a short time window for the titan to go down there without concerns about weather and currents on that travel. can you talk about how that impedes this recovery effort and potentially an investigation effort as well? >> sure because not only do you have the rov on the bottom but the ship on the top side going up and down with the weather, with tides and with currents and with weather conditions, so you're operating from an unstable

platform on the surface, and you're working with actually much more stable conditions down below, so just like mount everest, you have short windows you can do these ex-petpeditionexpe short weather windows to operate with. if you have short weather windows to get down there, rescuers are operating in the same short window. >> question as well, we embrace with the international community assistance in the recovery in search and recovery and rescue efforts, tell us about a subsequent investigation. we talked about this lightly a few moments ago, but inevitable investigation would occur into this accident, to what happened. who would be the governing body, is it the u.s. coast guard or an international body? >> i think it should be an international scientific or academic body. when i was involved as a diver on the twa crash off long island, it was the fbi and ntsb, we thought

it could be a criminal act and the ntsb took over when it was an accident. in this type of case there's no criminal activity alleged, there's somewhat of concern about the safety of this thing, there was a trade, an industry group of deep ocean explorers wrote a letter to this company saying they had concerns about the experimental nature of this vessel and if there was a catastrophic failure, not only would hurt this company but hurt the industry, the deep ocean exploration industry at large, and they were concerned with the experimental nat you are of the vessel. i think it needs to be an international body of scientists and academics that have knowledge in deep ocean exploration. you have to bring in experts like tom maddox, very good friend, helped me build the fbi program, we talk almost every day. people like tom maddox and the explorers that do this work need to be involved in that conversation. >> we have to find that balance between exploration and regulation. thank you very much. now let's go to fox

business correspondent olivia who covering this story. >> i want to point out another piece of military equipment from the u.s. navy that's been deployed to assist in the search and recovery efforts. the navy official sharing with roerts the fly away deep salvage system is also being made available. this piece of equipment is used to dive deep into the ocean. it can go as far as 20,000 feet to retrieve objects that have sunk to the bottom of the ocean. so 20,000 feet far exceeds depth of where the titanic rests. this would be deep enough to go. what will be interesting to hear at the 3:00 press conference, whether or not this piece of military equipment from the navy will be used in retrieving debris. when we hear more information about what exactly the debris contains, whether these are objects large enough

to warrant use of this fly away deep ocean salvage system, but it is quite a process. the idea was once the submersible was located, it would take at least 24 hours to set and process the system by which the fly away salvage system could be deployed because they have to weld it onto an available vessel. so it seems like it would not be immediate retrieval of the debris identified if the fly away system were to be used, but it is still there, nonetheless. i wanted to note it was available by the u.s. navy as well, too. >> lydia, any idea how quickly this piece of military equipment how quickly they can make this recovery effort? >> a great question i hope we learn more about at the 3:00 press conference. my understanding, this piece of naval equipment

is not used to staff anding the ocean floor, that's what they use the rovs far. they dive down unmanned, identifying the debris field that's been located. then this piece of military equipment from the navy is used to go down and retrieve heavy objects and bring them back to the surface. another point that i thought was really interesting that we are learning from the joint command at halifax was the human response being made available as well in nova scotia. earlier today we learned a canadian vessel the glace bay is on site, offering services of a medical team specializing in dive medicine as well as mobile hyperbaric chamber available for six people. the idea that we still have hope for the five souls that were lost at sea in the ocean on the

submersible, hoping perhaps these health services can be made available to them, but it is also possible that the health services for people will be made available to those involved in the rescue efforts. i heard all of you noting how arduous, dangerous these type of rescue missions are. so that's how they're preparing for it. >> this is underscoring the huge volume it takes for search and rescue efforts and how amazing everyone's involvement is. going back to again holding on to this hope, going back to the banging sound that's been described in different ways, the question is what other options are there, what other sources, potential sources have you understood that the options could be if it wasn't from the five souls aboard the titan? >> well, hearing other experts talk about what the sounds could be, if they weren't human, of

humor an origin, the ocean has a life of its own. it could be any other type of oceanic activities. odd the sound would come in 30 minute intervals, to just pause on the note of optimism, i was taken by some information being shared by the co-founder of oceangate earlier this morning, some of his comments he shared on facebook, this is the gentleman, guillermo soline, he started it in 2009 with stockton rush who is now missing. he posted today, quote, today will be a critical day in the search and rescue mission as the sub's life support supplies are starting to run low. i'm certain stockton and the rest of the crew realized days ago the best thing to do to ensure their rescue is extend limits of those supplies by relaxing as much as possible. i firmly believe the time window available for their rescue is longer than what

most people think. emily. >> thank you, lydia. >> thank you, lydia, very much. let's bring it to the couch for a few moments as we wrap up this hour. i have been on captain harding's social media, namely his instagram page. i came across something in reading about him. he is the british explorer that's aboard the titan right now. he set records by going to the deepest part of the ocean, mariana's trench. this guy is fearless and has talked about it. there's a quote, if something goes wrong, you are not coming back. i would love, love, love as we all would for our prayers to yield him wrong, but he has a lot of experience. when you go to his action aviation chairman instagram page, he said i am finally proud to announce i have joined the oceangate expedition for their rms titanic mission. as a mission specialist on

the sub going down to the titanic. due to the worst winter in the newfoundland in 40 years, the mission likely to be the first and only manned mission to the titanic in 2023. a weather window has just opened up and we are going to attempt a dive tomorrow. that was his last post. kennedy? >> really, to me it is inspiring because being called to adventure, there's a level of optimism and bravery for everything they do. incredible driving force. right now, with so much unknown they don't deserve our condemnation. and there really is something heroic about people like this that put their trust in innovation and in the unknown and they take so much from that. so i really hope that we keep that in mind as we continue to discuss this story. >> yeah. i think you're probably seeing some of what i've seen in social media in recent days, you know,

speak more to what you're talking about. >> i'm just inspired by, you know, ernest hemingway, people that write about throwing themselves into nature, into the great unknown, serving and filling their souls. >> kevin. >> >> we have all been captured by this moment collectively, today's gospel comes from the book of gospel and jesus imparts the lord's prayer to his disciples, so i think prayers are certainly involved in this entire process but to kennedy's point, your point, we can never lose that sense of adventure and pushing the envelope. you talk about richard branson, elon musk, pushing the envelope, it could be the worst take-away is to pull back. hopefully we will find them, we will honor them, but never take the sense of adventure that

defines this country. >> if anyone could survive what i'm learning about captain hamish harding and the ceo, stockton rush, spoke not long ago, every notion they had to survive. they know the dangers much more so than we do. so being able to survive something like this, even with a debris field found, there is hope that anything is possible as you said, you quoted the gospel, anything is possible. i will say this. one of the things that struck me, kennedy earlier this hour, though, we have been to space, we know more about space, not on the planet than we do the waters on the planet. >> and that's what bobby was saying. we think we know so much about the ocean, because it covers our globe, but the fact that so much is still a mystery means we have to keep making the expeditions so we can learn. >> i would say hamish harding,

what an impressive man, 16 air speed records, took an expedition to antarctica with buzz aldrin and five trips into space. amazing adventurer. >> it's captain cook, neil shepherd, explorers, i just know the depth that he said they might be at when they lost contact, that's the height that i sky dove at. that's -- >> wow, wow. >> exactly. >> thank you for watching. "america reports" now. >> sandra: begin with breaking news in the search for the missing submersible. the u.s. coast guard says a remotely operated vehicle has discovered a debris field in the area where the crews are right now looking for that sub. we are learning a whole lot more here as the hours go on. hello, welcome everyone, i'm sandra smith in new york. hi. >> john: start the day off with a lot of uncertainty, and this is "america reports." we expect to learn much more