question is no. when we are talking to our allies and partners around the world, including india, we let the idea of my accusing and avoiding saying what i think is the facts with regard to relationship with india -- with china is just not something i'm going to change very much. i think we -- i believe that i've said this for some time, that the hysteria about the relationship with china is collapsing and moving, etc., etc., we had an incident that caused some confusion, you might say, but the secretary blinken had a great trip to china. i expect to be meeting with president xi some time in the

future, the near term, and i don't think it has had any real consequence. and what was your second question? >> as you raise these broader issues of human rights and democracy, what is your message to those, including some members of your own party who believe that your administration is overlooking the targeting of religious minorities and a crackdown on descent in india. >> look, the prime minister and i had a good discussion on democratic values and there is a -- that's the nature of our relationship, we are straightforward with each other and we respect each other. one of the fundamental reasons that i believe u.s.-china relationship is not in the space as the u.s.-india relationship is that there is an overwhelming respect for each other because we are both democracies, and it's a common democratic character both our countries

that, and our people, our diversity, our culture, our open tolerant robust debate and we believe the dignity of every citizen and it is in america's dna, and i believe india's dna, the whole world has a stake in our success, both of us, in maintaining democracies, appealing partners and enables us to expand democratic institutions around the world, and i believe this, and i still believe this. >> mr. prime minister, india has long prided itself as the world's largest democracy but there are many human rights groups who say your government has discriminated against religious minorities and sought to silence its critics. as you stand here in the eastern room of the white house, so many world leaders have made commitments to protecting democracy, what steps are you and your government willing to

take to improve the rights of mus muslims and others in your country to uphold free speech. >> i'm surprised people say so, people don't say it indeed india is a democracy and as president biden also mentioned india and america, both countries, democracy is in our dna. democracy is our spirit. democracy runs in our veins. we live democracy. and our ancestors have actually put words to this concept and that is in the form of our constitution. our government has taken the

basic principles of democracy and on that basis, our constitution is made and the entire country runs on that. our constitution and our government. we have always proved that democracy can deliver and when i said deliver, this is regardless of class, creed, religion, gender. there is absolutely no space for discrimination and when you talk of democracy, if there are no human values, and there is no humanity, there are no human rights, then it's not a democracy. and that is why when you say democracy and you accept democracy and when we live democracy, then there is absolutely no space for discrimination and that is why india believes in moving ahead with everybody we trust and

everybody's efforts. these are our foundation principles which are the basis of how we operate, how we live our lives in india. the benefits that are provided by the government is accessible to all, whoever deserves those benefits is available to everybody and that is why in india's democratic values there is absolutely no discrimination, another on basis of class, creed, age or any kind of geographic location. >> kumar. >> thanks a lot, sir. my question is on the climate teams, both spoke strongly about the need to tackle climate change but there's a view -- both -- both countries have spoken about the challenge of climate change. there's a view, and targets are set, this is lacking, and also a

criticism of lack of technology to transfer, financial transfer from the developed countries to the developing nations. how do you both leaders see the way ahead on this pressing issue? >> well, first of all, i think it is the threat to humanity, climate change. it's the most serious problem we face as human beings. we have to keep it to 1.5° celsius. we have made enormous progress in the united states dealing with the issue by doing three things. number one, insisting that we move our -- every one of our industries into position where they can take advantage of cheaper and more extensive and more available renewable energy, whether it's solar or wind or hydrogen -- and green hydrogen, a whole range of things we have been working on.

in addition to that, we find ourselves in position that what we have done is that we have significantly reduced the, for example, i made a commitment that we are going to make sure that by 2030, 30% of all our lands and sea and oceans were -- are in conservation, could not be developed, we are well on the way doing that and also absorbing carbon from the air as a consequence of that because of the conservation. we are in position as well that we have provided for significant increase in funding for a whole range of issues, but not just for the united states, but for the rest of the world. for example, we are working with the g-7 to provide for infrastructure work for dealing with global warming and the continent of africa. and angola, building the largest solar project, moving ourselves -- having railway to go all the way across the southern two-thirds -- from the

atlantic ocean to the indian ocean in africa, to be able to transport and do it cheaper and do it with less -- how can i say it -- less carbon emissions. we are trying to work with other countries to maintain their -- maintain their carbon syncs so they don't have to develop them like we did and causing pollution and trying to figure out how to pay them not to develop certain areas, like the amazon in brazil. but there's a lot of technology that's available that we are sharing and we share with one another. we have learned how to do solar energy, cheaper than fossil fuels, the same way dealing with not just solar but dealing with wind and so there's a lot of technology that we have developed and we are well on our way, i think, to meeting the

commitment we made to -- that we made prior, and we are prepared to share all of that with india. and it has a desire to do the same. >> excellency, you said very rightly that as far as india is concerned the environment, climate -- these are extremely important in our cultural traditions. for us, the environment is an article of faith. this is not just something that we need to do for convenience, we believe this. we do not believe in the exploitation of nature. in order for all of creation to

work we can make nature -- we cannot have exploitation of nature and we have always believed this and on the basis of these values we are not only doing things for ourselves, but are taking some global initiatives as well. i perhaps know that the g-20 countries, the promises they made in paris, of all the g-20 cou countries, india is the only country that fulfilled all the promises in the g-20, not just that, but solar energy in glasgow we had set ourselves a target to achieve 500 giga watts of renewable energy. by 2030, indian railways net 0 and understand the scale of indian railways.

it means that every day the entire population of australia travels in our railway, on our trains, and we have set ourselves a target to achieve net 0 for our railways. we have also set ourselves target for solar energy, ethanol, 10% mix of ethanol, we have completed the target before set date. we are also working in the area of green hydrogen. we want india to be a green hydrogen hub and we are working towards this in the international solar alliance has been launched by india, and many countries have joined it and are working with india. the island countries, we have hit them in the area of solar energy, so that they have now a

new confidence we are with them in their efforts to fight climate change and not only fulfill our responsibilities, but we will also help you in the area of climate change. we have seen that due to natural calamities people talk about the death of people when there are natural disasters but destruction of infrastructure as well and therefore, because of climate change, the kind of crisis we are feeling, we need to develop infrastructure that is resilient and therefore we have created a global organization called cdri and you perhaps know that in glasgow, and recently it was launched by the u.n. secretary general and myself, mission life. and when i say life, i mean

lifestyle for the environment. therefore, every individual must live his life in a pro environment, pro development way and we are working toward this and i am sure that whatever work being india has started in all these areas, not because india has adversely affected the environment of the world, we are doing this because we have a concern for future generations. we do not want to give future generations a world that make life difficult for them, and therefore as a global responsibility, india has not caused any problems to the environment. however, we are playing a leading role in contributing in a positive manner as far as prosperous countries are concerned, there's always been talk about technology transfer, financial support, and there are

some countries that need to have technology transfer financial support and we hope that as soon as we can move forward in this area we will be able to solve this challenge of climate change. thank you very much. >> we have caused damage, united states, the way we have developed over the last 300 years. and that's why i was able to convince my colleagues in congress to pass legislation, the largest climate fund ever in american and world history, $369 billion. $369 billion to deal with climate crisis. and we are doing it extensively now and i think you are going to see significant progress. thank you all very, very much. [indiscernible]

>> mr. president -- >> sandra: hanging on a beat to see if the president answered any more shouted reporter questions as he left the room, john. some interesting moments there as the president both said they had a productive meeting together. the president biden commenting on his xi jinping comment about xi being a dictator, he says he does not believe that undermines or complicates our relationship with china, saying i don't think it had any real consequences. anyone listening for comments with india economically, president biden saying the economic relationship between the two countries was booming. >> john: yeah, and modi, to the best of my knowledge, the first time he has taken questions from the press, maybe since he became prime minister, the first one, brushed off the first one, saying there is no room for

discrimination in india, there is none, some may disagree with that, and then talking about climate change, a softball question from the indian side of the room. marc thiessen, former speech writer for president bush, and marc, he got the oceans right about the railroad, but he said dictator, china wigged out about it, but they make it their business to complain every time they can about the u.s. >> yeah, first of all, if you are right, john, we saw the only leader who takes questions from the president joe biden. so a remarkable event. i just thought stunning having worked in the white house six years to see a conference, one question from the u.s. reporter and one from the indian reporter, that's all you guess. i guess that's where we are today. india is a hugely important country and a country, one of

the rare areas bipartisan agreement. in 2019 when modi came to the united states, president trump had a rally in houston for him with 50,000 people in the nrg stadium there, so he -- india is hugely important and hugely important in the context of china. we really, we have a strategic imperative to decouple our economy from china and to pull a lot of strategic things out of there. we can't bring all that manufacturing back to the united states, it's not cost effective. some has to go to friendly democracies and allies around the world and india is a place where a lot of countries could move their supply chains out of china as we push that decoupling. but it not an ally. it's a friendly country, but not ally. and india is a friends, but part of the none alignment during the cold war and now pursuing

multi-alignment, trying to have good relationship with everybody, including some we don't have good relationship with. >> sandra: his attempted, i don't know if you call it a clean up, addressing comments on xi being a dictator, says it did not undermine or complicate the relationship with china and don't think it had a real consequence. how do you think china will react to that. >> i really don't care. if you are going to blind squirrel, he was right to call xi a dictator. and people freaked out ronald reagan called the soviet the empire -- xi is crushing freedom in his country, unleashed a virus on us, apparently looks increasingly like we got the smoking gun came from the wuhan lab and the biden administration

was supposed to deliver a report to congress or declassify but they didn't do it because blinken was in china. >> john: if rand paul is correct, a lot of u.s. culpability in the release of the virus as well, in terms of funding that may have led to that virus or one similar to it. in february, february -- either january or february, i can't remember, 2020. i was with president trump when he made the reciprocal visit to an event in texas, and the stadium was jam packed. but as you say, the relationship between the united states and india is an intriguing one, and on the one hand india would seem to be a good friend of the united states. on the other hand, modi is buying millions of barrels of russian oil and reselling it at a marked up price and there's -- this idea, too, that india --

india likes to play with nations in its region with the exception of pakistan, and maybe, you know, uses that as a lever against the united states as opposed to being as you pointed out a staunch ally. >> pursued nonalignment during the cold war and now it's multi-alignment. they don't see the contradiction between having a good relationship with united states and also with russia, or israel and iran. they are pursuing india's interests and we have to manage that. and the way to do it is frankly to try and embrace them to build up the ties with the united states, both in trade and defense and other areas, and push them to do the right thing -- on one hand, they want to embrace russia because they need russian military equipment they feel. but they also need us as a counter weight to china, and so we are -- one of the things the trump administration did, forced

the quad which is -- alliance of the indo-pacific democracies, it's the u.k., india, united states, and brought them all together. biden has continued that, which is a good thing. we are trying to pull them into our orbit into the orbit of the world's democracies and that's a positive thing for us. >> john: i said hiderbout, i meant ammanderbout. >> sandra: house ways and means committee is revealing brand-new information right now from a whistleblower in the irs investigation of hunter biden. david spunt has more from the justice department on what we are learning right now. david. >> sandra, interesting material here. this is hundreds of pages of testimony just released by the republican-led house ways and means committee. the irs investigation into the president's son, hunter biden. i may say the irs investigation

that led to a plea deal for the president's son, pleading guilty, announcing he would plead guilty to two misdemeanor tax violations two days ago. now last month, irs supervisory special agent gary schaaply, announced his name publicly, gave testimony for hours behind closed doors and said the department of justice where i am slow walked the investigation and made his job difficult. he has since been removed from that probe. now we are seeing what he said in his testimony and in one section that stands out relates to now president joe biden, according to schaaply, he saw a whatsapp message sent by hunter biden to a chinese businessman in 2017, read it. we obtained a july 30th, 2017, whatsapp message from hunter biden to henry chow, where hunter biden wrote i am sitting here with my father and we would like to understand why the commitment made has not been

fulfilled. tell the director that i would like to resolve this now before it gets out of hand and now means tonight. president biden, as we all know, has repeatedly denied discussing any business deals with his son, a source familiar with the irs probe tells fox news this is the same investigation that led to the hunter biden plea deal. now, chairman jason smith, the republican from missouri on house ways and means said today to a reporter that the committee did not actually see any of hunter biden's tax returns or didn't request his tax returns. they are going solely off this whistleblower and another unnamed whistleblower. meanwhile, hunter biden will appear in court for his first appearance and to enter guilty pleas at the end of next month on july 26th in wilmington, delaware. >> sandra: thank you, david. john. >> john: bring marc thiessen

back in, speech prior for president bush and -- >> you've been everywhere in india, john. >> we went to cashmere, really interesting. he said i'm blowing the whistleblower because the delaware department of just provided preferential treatment and conflicts of interest in an important and high profile investigation of hunter biden. interesting information to come to light. >> it's very interesting information and the email that david just read is shocking. hunter biden -- hunter got $8.3 million from various interests, including $100,000 from the company in china and we have the email where he says three times i'm sitting with my father, i will make sure the man sitting next to me and every person i know and the ability to forever hold a grudge, regret not following my direction.

i'm sitting here waiting for the call with my father. now, he might not be telling the truth, he might have been lying and his father was not there, we don't know. one of the things that -- one of the benefits maybe of the plea deal is that if he is noing loer under federal criminal investigation maybe he should be brought up to testify under oath, were you sitting with your father when you wrote the message, was the big guy next to you. now hunter biden cannot say i'm sorry i'm under criminal investigation so i can't testify. i think they ought to call him to testify in open hearing about all the questions. >> sandra: boil it down to, based on everything you said, one crucial question, who is lying then, is it joe biden or hunter biden, marc? >> it could be either way, with he would have to find out. let's get him under oath and the problem with a plea deal, you don't have a trial, so you don't

have cross examination. it's an easy way to shove the questions under the rug. congress has subpoena power, congress can call him to testify, no reason to not testify now, let's get him up there and answer the question. when you said i'm sitting here with my father, i'm waiting for the call with my father, was he sitting there, was he involved in that conversation, a participant in that discussion. >> sandra: because you go back to, and of course we always pull the transcript, this was september 2019, mark, president biden said "i've never spoken to my son about his overseas business dealings." obviously he's implicated in these messages that we are now reading. >> those two things can't both be true. either he was sitting there and waiting for the whatsapp message, or never discussed it. >> john: going through more of

the testimony, according to schaaply, irs officialed recommended hunter biden be charged with criminal activity includes to defeat taxes, fraud and willful failures to file returns or supply information or pay taxes. that is not what the doj pursued. >> yeah, i mean, this is an -- if there's ever been an underindictment, this is it. and you know, again would someone else have been treated this way, i don't know. and the other thing that's concerning the potential retaliation against some whistleblowers. we would not know a lot of this information if it wasn't for irs whistleblowers coming forward and going to senator grassley and giving this information directly to congress. their plan was to sort of have this indictment and shove it all under the rug and no one would know about these emails and all this information. so, we need to get to the bottom

of not just what hunter biden did and whether joe biden was involved in it, but the retaliation against the whistleblowers who came forward to congress. >> sandra: all right, mark thiessen, and the other breaking news, thanks for all that. an update from the coast guard coming moments from now on the missing titanic tourist sub. we know a debris field has been found in the search area. the coast guard has revealed that fact. let's get to our senior correspondent mike tobin at the staging area for the search in canada and mike, we are also learning right now that they have released some new satellite images of the ongoing search-and-rescue operations there. really showing the massive effort still underway right now. >> it is underway, and people out here that you talk to really want to hold on to the optimism despite what should be

discouraging news today. some specific information about the debris field through the bbc, saying they found a rear cover of the submersible and the landing frame as they describe it. and you think about the landing frame, similar to the skids on a helicopter but in this case mounted on the underside of the submersible. and that following reports from the united states coast guard that an rov, remote operated vehicle, launched by the horizon arctic, a canadian ship, located that debris field and the coast guard said they will follow that up with some more specific information in -- right around a half hour's time. all of that standing in the face of the optimism that people wanted to hold out here who are close to the operation despite coming past the deadline of 96 hours when the oxygen was to run out. larry daily, i spoke to earlier today, he has been down to the wreck, he operates logistics for

the expeditions and pointed out the coast guard can find debris near the wreckage of the titanic but a lot of debris down there. >> sandra: mike tobin reporting for us. jump on in any chance you get with new information. we await the update top of the hour. >> john: new york congressman brandon williams, used to be a nuclear submarine officer in the navy. brandon, when you hear word there is a debris field, we have unconfirmed reporting from the bbc that they found part of the landing apparatus, basically metal rails that the submersible comes back up on to its tender platform with, you can see its sister, the cyclops landing on the platform and the rear cover. when you take a look at what happened to the u.s.s. thresher in 1963, does that suggest there was a catastrophic implotion as

it was descending down to the titanic? >> you are right in describing that if there was an implotion, it was catastrophic, the only option there. but i also say on submarines, including nuclear submarines, there are things that attach to the pressure vessel itself that aren't, you know, critical for the pressure vessel and all the debris they have identified does not sound likes it's part of the pressure vessel. now, given what a, you know, collapse of the pressure vessel might look like, i know that at the submarine school in connecticut, a small piece of the hull of the thresher that is on the wall to remind us just how serious this is. so i would say it's not good news, but i wouldn't say that it's absolutely deterministic, either. >> sandra: what is your thinking along the way about the particular vessel, how it's

built. we have all tried to become as knowledgeable as possible through this process but you know, for many of us we see this tiny vessel going to such depths of the ocean that search-and-rescue operations have never gone before. are you supportive of this type of private ocean travel for tourists? >> well, i think -- i think there's now a different understanding of what those risks actually are. in terms of the vessel itself, number one problem they were trying to solve is, you know, is the pressure problem, and you know, i don't think the pressure vessel itself was perhaps poorly constructed. but when you start adding in all the control systems, as well as the environmental systems or power management systems, because certainly it has batteries, as well as propulsion, then you could be, you know, introducing risks, maybe that you don't appreciate, thinking that you've solved the

big problem of keeping the water out. so you know, without really in-depth understanding of those kinds of systems i would not want to at this juncture to pass judgment. but you should see those as very different things. the pressure vessel perhaps had a lot of integrity, the control systems maybe not as, you know, what we would use on a nuclear submarine. anyway, i would just wait and see and let the after action review happen once we know the outcome. >> john: on that point, brandon, i just got an update on the information that came from the bbc. apparently david marins received a whatsapp text from richard geary president of the explorer club who said it may be the landing frame and a rear cover. he said we understand debris has

been found, and it could be part of the titan lost on previous dives. may be additional debris but no updated visuals of the submersible. so now back to what is the debris and could the titan still be intact? >> it could be intact because everything that you are describing is outside the pressure hull. it's like getting your, you know, your rearview mirror or side mirror torn off the car, it does not affect how the car handles, just annoyance. but if something penetrates the pressure vessel, you have an enormous problem. 5,500 pounds per square inch of water pressure that depth and the tiniest pinprick would be catastrophic and fatal. >> sandra: just as far as what we know about these particular missions, we have heard from a whole host of divers and

experts, obviously, in the days that we have been covering this congressman. cf4, this is -- this is just a bit of what we have been hearing so far, listen. >> you could implode, you could have a fire, you could freeze to death, you could drown, there are many, many ways, but explorers know that going in. you accept the risk. >> it's going to be in close to the wreckage to see as much as they can. the potential of it becoming entangled is a very high concern. >> we were told, intimately this was a dangerous mission, could result in death or injury. so that was well understood. >> sandra: there are so many different possibilities here. obviously we are going to get an update in about 25 minutes from now from the coast guard, but it has to have been extremely difficult to narrow this search knowing that so many different things could have happened.

>> there really are. when you are in a submarine like a space ship, not only a very hostile environment outside but very fragile environment inside, your atmosphere, power, climate controls, and also just being able to manage yourself in the company of others in that tight of space, perhaps under duress and i have no evidence to support this, but with some of the construction that they have shown on the video of what was going on inside the pressure vessel, you know, it could be something like water getting into the battery compartment and just from inside and potentially shorting out the battery or causing a fire or creating an environment or atmospheric problem, i don't have evidence to support those. but outside the pressure hull is extremely hostile, hostile as

anywhere on earth, and then inside is very fragile and something that you have to manage to maintain life. it's very cold down there, you are fighting against carbon dioxide you are exhaling all the time and that has to be removed. remember apollo 13 had that issue. so, it is a very difficult environment. a lot of things that could go wrong and i'm still praying they are found. >> john: apollo 13 against all the odds, they came home safely and hoping that will still be the case here. >> amen. >> john: the problem, congressman, according to the specifications of this craft, 96 hours of survivability. apparently went into the water about 8:00 in the morning on sunday, which means the 96 hours were up a little more than six hours ago. is there a way, based on your knowledge from being in a submarine environment to stretch out that survivability window? >> well, you know, i would have

to know the specifics. again, the key thing is removing carbon dioxide. that's the most immediate and pressing thing. the second thing is most pressing is staying warm. it's certainly in the mid 30s or low 30s at that depth, meaning the temperature outside and the water will wick away any heat through conduction very, very quickly, but then you get into oxygen supply and one of the things that we would do on our submarine, the captain would be able to adjust the oxygen level, for example, if the level goes up just a little bit, it makes you very alert and if the captain wanted performance out of the crew, he could bump up the oxygen bleed into the sub and everybody was, you know, wide awake. so, there is a number of things that you have to manage for that atmosphere, but if you are calm and your breathing is steady, you know, if people are sedated or asleep, you have much, much

longer to go before you hit those limits. if you are very active, hyper alert, talking a lot, you are using more oxygen, you are exhaling more carbon dioxide and that would shorten that, and we have heard this in the cave. remember people that are trapped in caves often have environmental problems and start getting headaches and that kind of thing. so it's a tremendous human endurance story, again, i pray that they are found and i don't give up hope on that easily. not for any submariner. >> sandra: i think that is where we all are, holding out hope. tom maddox is joining us again, he was also co-pilot of a submersible that traveled to the wreck of the titanic in 2005. going to let you know here, there are obviously a lot of

different reports out there. there is a new report that the search is continuing, it has not stopped. the coast guard has made no decision they are stopping the search right now, but also that there is a new report right now that the wreckage has been assessed and confirmed, via one report, that it is the missing sub, hopefully we will know more 20 minutes from now. >> sandra, you are getting the news as it's coming, you have better relations than what i have, so i'm relying on you and others. you can see how in a situation like this news can be twisted and just presented in different ways. so we heard moments ago that it may not be from that sub, but now we hear that it is, so i guess we are just going to have to wait and see. the good news is from my standpoint they have already

committed to this search to keep it going until something definitive comes up and hopefully you can hang on to some kind of a hope for a miracle. but we have to wait and see what happens at 3:00 with the presser and what happens after that. >> john: if they have found the sub, it sounds, tom, like they do have the technology between the 6k rov down there, it was brought to the site by the horizon arctic out of st. john's, newfoundland and also the french ship has a heavy lift rov in it. if they have found this submersible, they may be able to bring it back up to the surface. >> yeah, i mean -- they have the capability, it's a matter of time and of course so many factors like sea state. luckily they are in a good weather window. we had to pull up our expedition and leave in 2005 because a

hurricane was coming up and heading straight for us so we had to leave days early. it can be a very treacherous place to be in the middle of the atlantic in a storm. luckily they have a good weather window, i understand, so they are able to operate. even if they find it, to attach it, it's still a monumental task to bring it to the surface. it's not going to happen instantaneously. it could be days before they could get it up. so unfortunately we have reached that survivability window and that's a critical time. but i'm glad to see they are going to keep trying. >> sandra: so the update about 18 minutes from now. to that point, whether they are alive in that or not, bringing it back up to the surface, that would be an ability to learn exactly what happened here if it is still intact. >> exactly. i mean, we were involved in a recovery of this space shuttle when it blew up, a lot of that debris landed in the water.

a lot of time and expense expended on that because they need to learn, and that's how we do learn about future exploration and moving forward is to analyze exactly what happened. unfortunately, these five souls paid for it with their lives so i hope it doesn't go just, you know, undetermined that we can use this for advancement for future exploration. >> john: so tom, when you were down on the mir, i don't know if you know much about -- i don't think you know all that much about the construction of titan, but when you were down in the mir, what was your air supply derived from? does the mir have co2 scrubbers, oxygen tanks, how long would you be able to survive if that craft had become disabled and how might we apply those parameters to where we are now? >> john, this is inherent risk to this expedition. you are in a capsule and you are rebreathing your same air over and over again.

and we actually consume or our oxygen, certain amount of oxygen and we exhale carbon dioxide. lack of oxygen can kill you, but so will excessive amounts of carbon dioxide. so you are right, there is a scrubber unit, but that's a mechanical scrubber unit that uses energy. if that fails, the carbon dioxide level is going to reach a level where it renders you unconscious. so that has to be functioning in order for the system to stay alive. and they inject oxygen into the breathing air and as your former guest said, in many submarines and our submersible we were able to actually manipulate a little bit the oxygen level in the breathing air, but that was monitored with a system to see what our partial pressure of oxygen was at any given time. so i don't know, you are right, i don't know the system on board titan, i don't know what their

capabilities were but the scrubber is your life support. without it you can't exist. in the operating situation, i believe we had about 72 hours. >> sandra: all right, we are going to put up on the screen the satellite images i just referenced, just coming into us now. extremely tiny images, as you would imagine, from satellite in space, but this shows the search area and search, tom, underway. what did we say, 11:24 this morning this was taken, and this is sort of one of the first looks we are getting, aerial view, at least, of the search, tom. >> yeah, it's a huge area. they are doing a fantastic job but it's -- it's a great challenge for them. i mean, you look at those tiny ships and the vast expanse of sea and the size of the submersible is minuscule.

it's a difficult job. >> john: tom, stay with us for a second, go to the pentagon briefing, not live, this was recorded a short time ago, they were addressing the search for the submersible. >> the department of defense is supporting the coast guard and partner agencies along with the broader international effort with a range of key capabilities. u.s. navy has provided a fly away deep ocean salvage system used for the recovery of large heavy undersea objects such as aircraft or small vessels and salvage and diving subject matter experts to assist in the rescue effort. plus deployed u.s. air force c-17 cargo aircraft to move vehicle assets and supporting equipment into the area from the u.s. and europe. we all recognize the urgency of the effort and thoughts and prayers are with the titan crew, families, and the responders working around the clock in support of this operation. >> john: pat ryder referencing

the c-17s that flew into st. john's a couple days ago carrying the 6k rov, what we believe discovered the debris, also has heavy lift capabilities, might be able to bring at least some of the debris up, we don't know. those rovs have pretty sophisticated optical equipment on them and i'm sure the searchers got a pretty good look at what's on the ocean floor. do you think they would have any question, tom, what it is they are looking at? >> well, i think that there are experts there that can probably put their eyeballs on it and identify the nature of the debris. the area down there, at least when we were there, was like i said, extremely dark. i mean, it's pitch black. >> john: tom, tom -- i'm sorry to interrupt. we just got the statement from

oceangate, says we now believe that our ceo stockton rush, shahzada dawood, his son, hamish harding and paul-henry nargeolet are sadly lost. a deep passion for exploring and protect the world's oceans. our hearts are with these five souls and every member of their family during the tragic time. we grieve the loss of life and joy they brought to everyone they knew. so i guess what we are going to hear at 3:00 from the coast guard, tom, is that the debris field is that of the titan, that it's in pieces, that would suggest a catastrophic implotion back on sunday morning as they were descending so the titanic. your thought as we get this news. >> well, it's -- it's a gut punch, it's probably what was in the back of minds of most experts but we don't want to

admit it or give into that, never give up hope. there is still a small hope that the hull is intact, but it's highly unlikely. and the equipment they do have on board, the rov they have there is capable of bringing this up. it's not something they will do in the next few hours, but it sounds like the worst has happened. >> sandra: i'll just finish that statement, with the oceangate statement reading this is an extremely sad time for our dedicated employees who are exhausted and grieving deeply over this loss. the entire oceangate family is deeply grateful for the countless men and women from international community and wide ranging resources and worked so very hard on this mission. we appreciate their commitment to finding these five explorers and days and nights of tireless work for the crew and their

families. a very sad time for the entire explorer community and the family members of those lost at sea. we ask the privacy of those families be respected during this most painful time and tom, we know that in the days that will follow this there will be a very strong assessment over the time frame after this vessel went missing and communication stopped. it is already a big discussion, how many hours passed before the coast guard was alerted and the various agencies were able to descend on the search area. >> i hesitate to opine on that, it's going to take a while to put all the pieces together, sort out the misinformation, put the facts together, timelines and i'm sure we'll get a better picture. we'll never know exactly for sure, but we have people in this system and in this community who

are experts who can probably put very accurate picture of what happened, hopefully we'll learn from that and avoid any kind of catastrophe like this in the future. >> john: tom, thank you so much for joining us these past few days. it has been terrific to get your expertise on all of this as we turn a tragic -- as we turn a tragic and sad corner in this. thank you, tom. bring back brad mcdonald, former commanding officer of the u.s. navy attack submarine, breaking news, we now believe our ceo sto stockton rush, shahzada da wood, his son, hamish harding and paul-henry nargeolet, looked the worst has happened. >> tom said, gut punch, and that

is a gut punch. and he was also right in the back of our minds most of us had this feeling from the time contact was first lost. so very sorry, sympathy goes out. there is a verse, if you don't mind me quoting from the navy hymn, a verse for all the different branches of the service and the one that applies here says lord god our power evermore whose arm doth reach the ocean floor. dive with our men beneath the sea, traverse the depth protectively. keep them safe from peril in the deep. i guess in a sense maybe i'm representing at least all my shipmates on submariners, and right before you made that sad announcement, somebody mentioned that some of this debris might have been from a previous expedition, and i don't want to make a bad situation worse here.

but that was -- that really caught my attention and i thought well, really, they think they lost debris on a previous expedition, why were they still operating. anyway, that caught my attention. >> sandra: and you can certainly make the case from the stories we have heard about those who were on board, the reporter who went on this particular adventure, and made it back, he said that there were problems, there were communications problems almost immediately and that has certainly had its challenges and noted by those on board in the past. >> one thing, and i know i keep bringing conversations back to the u.s. navy submarine service, understand that's mostly what i'm familiar with, and one thing i absolutely know about the u.s. navy submarine service, number one priority is always safety and a lot of the submarines i was on, the mission priorities would be safety was always number one.

avoiding counter detection might be two, and mission accomplishment three, but safety was always number one, and so that does cross my mind was safety the number one factor here. >> john: yeah. so, there will be a lot of days and weeks ahead where this is all dissected and analyzed and we may get an idea what was -- what it was that went wrong. immediately, though, this now switches from a search-and-rescue operation and unbelievable search-and-rescue operation as it was to now a recovery operation. and do you believe at this point, brad, that they would move to try to retrieve the submersible or would they leave it on the bottom with the souls who were lost on the titanic? >> you and i have been talking, and made several references to potential implotion, and i was

minorly skeptical of the idea. but frankly, it sounds like you were probably right and when thresher imploded it hovered a debris field of almost 2 million square feet, and so this vessel is much smaller, don't know how much area it covered, it sounds like it might have imploded a few thousand feet before the bottom, so as it's dropping, it's spreading, so my guess is if they bring anything back, it would be to bring enough pieces back to just confirm that that's what it is. >> sandra: right. so as far as whether or not this will be still called a search-and-rescue operation at 3:00, obviously that will be a big question. we are told we are inside the ten-minute window to that coast guard update. but the company independently issuing its own statement ahead of the coast guard saying they are grieving the loss of life and that they believe all passengers have been lost that

were on board titan. so that update should be coming shortly. at this point we have not even gotten confirmation about that debris field from the coast guard. so, this could all be jam packed in the 3:00 update, we assume. >> ok, well i guess i don't have a whole lot more to offer here other than sympathy for the crew, and it's a very sad event, and i sympathize having experienced similar losses in the u.s. navy submarines, and whether kursk was lost. it didn't matter what nationality you were, everyone was riveted by the story, and in 3 or 4 minutes of meeting we were like brothers. there's a bond between

submariners and underwater mariners that exceeds nationality or anything. we are very sorry for the people that have been lost. >> john: brad, it is a sad turn of events, not unexpected, though, and we thank you for joining us in the last couple days with your expertise as well. appreciate it. >> my pleasure, hope we can meet again in the future on a happier situation. >> sandra: and thank you for your service, sir. thank you. >> john: i assume, sandra, the statement for oceangate to make notification before the coast guard comes out with its information. now what are we left to learn from the coast guard briefing coming up, how much of the submersible did they find, how did they confirm that it was in fact the submersible, was it part of the landing structure, was it part of the back cowling, have oceangate decals on the side of it, we don't know. were any members of the crew found on the ocean floor, i

mean -- a lot the coast guard will inform us about coming up in the minutes ahead. and i have to say, you know, we all followed deep water horizon and the response to that. imagine deep water horizon only in an area that's 900 miles offshore in more than twice as much water and a place where humans rarely venture, and yet they mounted this search operation, they apparently found part of the submarine and you talk about the smallest of needles and the largest of haystacks. >> sandra: a new report out from a barista, one of the last to see the crew before they went missing and a photo of the cafe where they stop for their coffee before they went off on this journey. and it does talk about how they were ready, they were anxious,

and you have to remember they were put on delay for many days leading up to their final dive because of the weather and other various reasons, and the barista said upon talking to them, they were anxious, a little behind that morning, but they were very excited to head off, and perhaps that was one of the last times that they were seen there at that cafe. >> john: well you know, all of this exploration and adventure seeking comes with a huge degree of risk. there were a number of successful dives to the titanic that the titan and oceangate undertook between the time the titan was delivered and now, and again, if they bring up enough of this submersible they may be able to determine exactly what it was that went wrong. there you see the coast guard preparing for their briefing, looks like it's about to get underway. >> sandra: all right, let's listen. >> thank you for joining us today and over the past few

on on the rov. please limit your questions to one per outlet. following the briefing, the joint information center staff and i will be here to help you with any of your further needs. may i introduce rear admiral, john mauger. >> this morning an rov, remote operated vehicle from the horizon arctic discovered the tail cone of the titan submersible 1,600 feet from the bow of the titanic on th