utensils. >> you can't use a gas fired stove. >> on a plane, pointing out it applies to the packet, no soy sauce unless you ask. >> the french fry is just the vehicle for the ketchup, i'm sorry. >> that's right. guys, thank you all for watching. enjoy your lunch and here is "america reports." >> sandra: a live look inside the long island courthouse where the suspected gilgo beach killer, rex heuermann, is set to go before a judge any time now as he remains a prime suspect in the murder of another woman. hello, welcome everyone on this tuesday. i'm sandra smith. hello, trace. >> trace: good to be with you. i'm in for john roberts. 59-year-old architect and father of two is locked up after being

charged with the murders of three women over a decade ago. >> sandra: court appearance coming as we are seeing brand-new images now from the search inside his home showing furniture completely ripped apart by the investigators. bryan is outside the courthouse in riverhead, new york, a lot may be happening. what do we expect is going to happen in the courtroom? >> good afternoon. 2:00 p.m. today, rex heuermann will appear in court for the first time facing the judge that will be presiding over his trial. the suffolk county district attorney says we should expect the preliminary conference to not take much time and that ultimately we should also expect heuermann to not say anything, defendants typically don't during preliminary hearings. rex heuermann has been sitting in a jail cell for the better part of -- for over two weeks now where the sheriff, according

to the sheriff, he has been "very comfortable" and on suicide watch. his estranged wife and two children have not visited him, she says she and the two children are distraught and shocked over the arrest. she has filed for divorce, woke up in the middle of the night shivering, my children cry themselves to sleep, they are not children but grown adults and my children and my son has developmental disabilities and he cried himself to sleep. new photos obtained by "the new york post" show the inside of heuermann family home after police searched every inch of that property for 12 days. the bathtub is cut up and tiles are ripped up. she says the couch is shredded and investigators threw boxes of their belongings all over the place. officials believe at least one

of the victims was killed inside the home. she is not a suspect, though. prosecutors say she was travelling outside the state during the time of the disappearances of the three women that her husband is now accused of murdering. and prosecutors also say they are set to charge rex heuermann with the death of a fourth woman who they say evidence "clearly fits" the pattern of the other three victims. sandra. >> sandra: so we will keep our eye on that courthouse and certainly take any live images as they happen. it should be going down in less than an hour from now. thank you. >> remains a lot of work to be done and cannot emphasize enough how important to bring in witnesses because each witness that comes in is providing more and more evidence. there are 300 million taxpayers out there that demand they get treated fairly and this is a perfect example of that not occurring.

>> trace: gary shapley talking on the heels of hunter biden's best friend and business partner, and working behind the scenes to negotiate a revised version. covering this from all angles. former white water independent counsel saul wiseenberg will join us in a moment, but david spunt from the justice department. any update on the revised agreement? >> we have not seen any updates on the docket as far as proposals from hunter biden's legal team or the united states, meaning the district of delaware. the u.s. attorney there. the agreement may not be an agreement hunter biden wants, the agreement the united states department of justice wants. this comes almost one week after a federal judge, maryellen noreika, chastised both sides,

and said i will not be a rubber stamp. she told them to go back to the drawing board. she was appointed by former president trump during his term, giving them a few weeks to hash out differences and come back with a document and agreement she believes is acceptable. she said she has never seen anything like the plea agreement they originally proposed, including hunter biden pleading guilty to two misdemeanor tax violations and promise to enter a diversion program for lying on a federal firearm form. highly unusual and wants both sides to work out differences. three republican chairs of the house judiciary, oversight and ways and means committee wrote attorne attorne attorney general merrick garland, they want descriptions of the ongoing investigations of

hunter biden and why the department agreed to a plea agreement with other investigations concerning hunter biden are ongoing. we can expect some sort of response from the doj but unlikely garland will answer those questions in any detail, especially now that we know hunter biden is under a larger investigation. it's likely garland will punt to david weiss leading the probe into the president's son in delaware. but the attorney general has been under great pressure, especially since this plea deal fell through last week in court to appoint a neutral third party special counsel. as of right now, no indication garland would do so, and has confidence in david weiss, he was a trump-appointed u.s. attorney. >> trace: david, thank you. >> sandra: saul, it's been a while, good to have you back on the program. a lot to take in here and a lot we learned yesterday from his former business partner.

how will this all come together now? a, with the investigation by lawmakers, and b, whether or not a sweetheart plea deal will eventually get cut. what happens next? >> well, they are two separate things. what happens with congress and what happens with doj. doj is not going to give much cooperation or any cooperation to congress on the issue of why did the plea deal break down. but it's important what congress is doing because the doj clearly is not doing its job in the hunter biden investigation. so the key point is -- the key point to this deal, this plea deal that blew up, both parties, both sides, the government and his attorneys want the plausible -- to say we have a broad immunity agreement as part of this, you can never prosecute

him again for just good anything that happened historically, and doj wanted to be able to say no, the language doesn't really say that, so they can keep saying to congress it's an ongoing investigation we don't want to talk about it. and the judge kept that from happening and kept it from happening because a plea has to be knowing and voluntary and it was clear that the two sides had different views of what the plea bargain was. i do think there will ultimately be a plea bargain agreement the judge can accept. >> sandra: what does that eventually look like, do you think? >> i think he's not -- there won't be any more open issue about how much it protects him from future prosecution for nontax-related things. i think that will have to be made clear what the charge bargaining, the term of art, what the charge bargaining is, and that's number one. and number two, it will have to be in the plea agreement itself,

not in this pretrial diversion agreement. that upset the judge. charge bargaining happens in the plea agreement and the judge can say i accept it, reject it or defer it. by putting it into the diversion development, they were robbing the judge the ability to do that and so it's going to be there for all to see. it's going to be there and publicly available and i think that's what's going to happen. but what the congress can do because merrick garland and david weaiss talked about who hd what authority and discussed the whistleblower's testimony to that extent and those people need to be hauled in under oath. attorney general garland, u.s. attorney weiss and lisa monaco,

talking to david weiss and what he could or couldn't do, and without detailing the investigation, questions like did david weiss call you and ask for special attorney authority. when he did so, what did you say to him. is it true the u.s. attorney in d.c. refused to sanction charges against hunter biden and how is that consistent with attorney general garland's statement that there was no plit -- would be no political interference, and the same question for the u.s. attorney in california who also declined to prosecute. those are the kind of questions that could and should be answered under oath. >> sandra: and you get the sense people at home have similar questions as the gop needed in the request for information, there are serious concerns how the department has handled this matter. and they would want to get to the bottom of that. sol, great to have you on today, thank you so much.

>> thanks for having me. >> sandra: more coming up and as we approach the deadline for garland to respond to the request for more information. >> trace: we will talk to sarah bedford, and maybe the framing of this, and dan goldman saying yeah, joe biden was on the phone, just niceness, but when you are on the phone with somebody, make burisma, other people, if you have access to the vice president that in itself is influence. so it's kind of fascinating the way the "new york times" is framing it. yeah, we have known that vice president biden spoke to the companies, right, but there was nothing that ever came of it and they never said that, never said that until devon archer got on the stand yesterday. >> sandra: absolutely. more on that coming up. trace. >> what is the granholm plan to increase oil production in america?

[laughter] >> oh, that is hilarious. would that i had the magic wand on this. >> trace: the energy secretary laughing it up in 2021 when asked about the energy crisis. many americans may not see the humor while filling up their gas tanks and wait until you hear who progressives want the justice department to sue over it. phil flynn is here. >> sandra: that sound bite has so much play. and rex heuermann, could prosecutors lay more charges against him after the search of his home. >> a long litany of serial killers have exaggerated crimes as opposed to denying, gives them status in prison. interesting to see what his demeanor is.

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>> sandra: sad news out of new jersey. lieutenant governor of the garden state sheila oliver has passed away. served in the role since 2018 was rushed to the hospital for an undisclosed illness. she was acting governor since last week with governor phil murphy on vacation in italy. sheila oliver was 71 years old. >> trace: suspected gilgo beach killer rex heuermann will appear at the top of the hour for a hearing, days after a massive trophy of evidence seized from his long island home. jonna, it's been a long time. some prosecutors say it's

interesting to watch rex heuermann's demeanor as he goes into court. sometimes these people tend to exaggerate their crimes and sometimes want to mitigate them, wondering what you think about rex heuermann. the first thing he asked when arrested, is it in the news, is that because he wanted it kept quiet or because he wanted everybody to know. what are your thoughts on his demeanor? >> i would say it is the former. this guy was living this very odd double life. professional working in manhattan, family man living on long island, i think he didn't want people to know he was getting arrested and his demeanor today better be very quiet because when we represent defendants, especially high profile, you want them to sit there and shut up. you don't want them saying anything, don't want outbursts, looking in weird ways, just be stoic. i expect more of the same today.

>> trace: i want to put up the charges, three counts first-degree murder, three counts second-degree murder, pled not guilty july 14th, and the evidence is overwhelming, his dna found on one body, his wife's dna found on two bodies, you know, she and the children were out of state, so she is not facing charges or suspicion. do you expect that these charges, this evidence, the cell phone video, the stuff found on his computer, is enough or do they need more going forward? >> so it's likely they are going to need more, and let me add this. you know, when you are facing these kind of charges, they are old charges, the evidence has been culled over a period of a decade, digging up new evidence as we speak. evidence is going to be challenged, that's part of the defense strategy and the rubber meets the road. today kicks off the timeline

where this discovery, the evidence needs to be providing to the defense team so they can investigate and do their own testing or what they need to do on it. so, this case i know it seems damning, it is not open and shut, trace, by any stretch of the imagination. >> trace: i wonder if it grows, people go back and think wow, charged with three, possibly four murders. but if you go back to 2010, 2011, they found 11 body parts, remains on south long island. i wonder if this case is multiple killers or this case against rex heuermann continues to grow and grow. >> my guess is it will grow because a lot of these murders had very telltale signs. very similar in the way they were conducted. but i will predict this. part of his defense and he said i think he exclaimed i didn't do this. part of his defense may be look, these were sex workers, we had sex, i didn't murder them, they were still alive when i left, that could explain the dna.

i'm getting far ahead of ourselves but imagining what the defense team is going to try to put together. >> trace: it's fascinating, why people of riveted by it. great to see you. >> sandra: crime crisis is spiralling in oakland and the naacp is calling on leaders to declare a state of emergency. who and what they are pointing the finger at that's causing what they are calling a public safety crisis. >> trace: plus, we are less than a month away from the first republican presidential debate. florida governor desantis taking off the gloves against his top rival, the front-runner, donald trump. our panel is here to break it all down, next. >> then he started to attack me, because he saw we were going to win a big victory and viewed me as a political threat and now he's flip-flopped and trying to say we did a bad job. my a1c was up here; now, it's down with rybelsus®.

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>> trace: florida governor desantis taking a swipe at former president trump over his refusal to fire dr. anthony fauci, and he is shaking off rumors his campaign is in trouble. complete coverage coming up with the panel, but first live to rich edson in washington. desantis is making covid the centerpiece of his campaign. >> he really is, trace. governor ron desantis is leaning into his covid record, quickly reopened classrooms and businesses. covid is among the first issue he leveraged to criticize former president trump accusing his administration of favoring lockdowns. now the florida governor tells bret baier that trump's covid record shows he let others in his administration take the lead. >> even january of 2021, right before he left office, his task force was telling us in florida to close and so he didn't have control over his own government.

he didn't have control over fauci. fauci ran that government his last year in office. trump should have fired him. i fought back against it. >> a trump campaign spokesperson saw desantis a covid hypocrite and then president trump rejected mandates and pushed for states to make their own covid decisions. the former president has a commanding lead over desantis and the rest of the field, even his legal bills of siphoning tens of millions of dollars. the trump pac paying his legal bills, about $4 million cash on hand june 30th, started the year with more than 105 million. >> what's not so clear is whether or not people are yet going to come to a point where they say president trump has too much baggage. the best indicator of that is going to be in the polls that start to appear in the early states, like iowa and new hampshire.

>> find the candidates, desantis, mike pence, vivek ramaswamy, doug burgum, nikki haley, all to campaign in iowa over the next week. >> sandra: our panel new, patrick murphy, former pennsylvania congressman and former under secretary of the army, and garrett ventry, former senior adviser to the senate judiciary committee. put on the screen the candidates who have met polling and donor criteria, a pretty big gop field we are dealing with now, and seems desantis is focusing on president trump's electability. is that a good strategy for desantis? >> i think ron desantis and scott walker and jeb bush territory, pleading campaign dollars, firing staff, and some are saying he's a flawed

candidate. you dig into the facts and look at the polling, gop voters by 30 point margin they trust donald trump going into general election. so they have a lot of really good reason to believe that. a harvard poll shows trump up five on joe biden, and the "new york times" poll, locked at 43-43 trump and biden, but trump is gaining steam with black voters, hispanic voters, bad sign for biden, and a rust belt poll, wisconsin, pennsylvania, ohio and michigan, in that poll donald trump is beating joe biden by seven points and ron desantis is losing to joe biden by three points. so again, donald trump is not only trounsing in the gop primary by 37 points, 30 to 40 points in other polls, but obviously clearly the best choice to go against joe biden in 2024.

>> sandra: desantis in his own words on trump. >> too many voters who just aren't going to vote for him going forward. the polls that come out that put i beat biden in georgia, trump doesn't. i beat biden soundly in arizona, trump doesn't. those are the realities. >> sandra: patrick, the poll garrett was referencing, trump at 54% as the gop preference for the 2024 presidential nominee. desantis back at 17%. is he not acknowledging the reality of the situation right now? >> sandra, i don't think so. i think he's making the general election argument but he can't get through the primary. he cannot overcome the toxic trance that donald trump has on the republican party. he can't break it. and for whatever reason, that's why he's down 37 points. he's making the other argument he made with bret baier, he can recruit better people in the

administration, i agree with him. but he's not going to be able to get to the primary and i don't think it's going to happen for him in the near future. >> sandra: i'll let garrett respond to the toxic trance you just reference there, also put up the "new york times" sienna poll, biden and trump are tied in a hypothetical match-up, so if this does indeed come down to these two, garrett, could donald trump beat joe biden? >> i like patrick a lot but disagree with the toxic comment. toxic is 65% of americans think the country is heading in the wrong direction, 39% approval rating, and two, look at the head to head match-up, 43% of democrats are questioning joe biden's age, and 65% of americans like i pointed out in the "new york times" poll, seen it as high as 74 polls, say the country is headed in the wrong direction, no one can look at three years ago and say they

were better off financially, cannot say the economy was better off or just if you look at the world with things that happened under joe biden with russia invading ukraine, afghanistan toppled by the taliban. contrast elections between joe biden and donald trump, you are seeing donald trump with the clear edge. and he's chipping away at key demographics that typically those voters have voted for joe biden in the past, so it's problematic at the rust belt, and african american voters, donald trump surging with them. big warning sign for joe biden. >> sandra: not to be ignored is the time we still have here and when you go back and look at the candidates who have met the polling and donor criteria, a big debate coming up they will be on the stage, that could be a make or break moment for some of these candidates. who would you say the democrats fear the most, patrick, if you are saying trump is such a horrible candidate, who would be the biggest threat?

when you are looking at that list, how about doug burgum, he's joining us next hour, you've seen his runs there in his state as governor, 67 years old, could become the dark horse candidate in this race. we'll talk to him about just that next hour as well as bret baier, breaking down all of this for our viewers. but who do democrats fear in this race? >> from my perspective, i think there's a contrast with ron desantis of all the candidates running beside president trump. he's probably definitely the number two, and i would say he's built this nationwide campaign, raised the money, he's a navy veteran, governor of a very popular state in florida. the problem is, is that he cannot break the toxic trance that former president donald trump has. i'm not trying to be disrespectful but that contrast, when you talk about president biden versus former president trump, when president biden can

say the last three years, yes, inflation has a mention, 9%, now down to 3%. unemployment level lowest in decades. >> sandra: still significantly above where the president took office and consumer price up 16%, gas prices up $0.16 in the last week. garrett, you get the final word in there. >> yeah, again, i mean -- this idea we are talking about joe biden fixing problems that he created and things just are not again, 65% of americans are saying the country is headed in the wrong direction, that's very tough. donald trump continues to suck up the oxygen here. go into the gop debate, i think candidates to watch for, nikki haley and tim scott, vivek, even. doug burgum like you said who you are interviewing, the first opportunity they'll have 15, 20 million eyes on them at the gop debate here on fox news, it's a huge opportunity to garner support. there's a lot of -- high stakes debate for ron desantis and the major question which looms over

the entire debate is it whether or not donald trump shows up, we'll see what happens there. >> sandra: and interesting about burgum, teasing the interview coming up, they exchanged, he and donald trump endorsements back in 2016 and 2020. and he is trying to showcase his personality as a contrast to trump. so, that will make for a very interesting answer. we'll get that from him shortly. thanks to both of you. great conversation. trace. >> trace: explosive testimony from the former business partner of hunter biden painting a picture of influence peddling to enrich his family. but democrats are putting their own spin on what was said. washington examiner political and investigative reporter sarah bedford will join us on that, sandra. >> sandra: migrants forced to sleep on the streets of new york city, no more room left in the shelters. frustration against the biden administration. what are they doing about this? the mayor himself is now calling out the lack of action at the federal level. the massive toll this crisis is

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>> sandra: tiger woods is back in town, joining the pga tour board as part of concessions requested by players. dozens of golfers wrote to the circuit commissioner after secret negotiations led to a controversial deal with saudi-backed liv golf. golfers say it defied the principle the tour should be committed to players and run by them. with woods on the board, players

outnumber independent board members 6-5. where i stand -- i want everybody to be happy, i want golf to continue, i like when i can see them all playing together and the best rise to the top and if this is what it takes, maybe it's a move in the right direction. >> trace: you and i talked about this, sandra, about a year ago, what was going to happen is you know, liv and the pga are going to join forces because that's the way the world is working nowadays, like back in the afl-nfl days, worked out like that, and who knows. who knows how it's going to go down the road. >> sandra: everybody thought it would take regulation, but at the end of the day the market will work itself out. if people were not watching one, they were watching the other, one commanding more money for the players -- it will work itself out. i'm cheering them on. >> trace: the migrant crisis overw overwhelming new york city.

lining the streets, the hotel filled to capacity. many camping out for days waiting for a place to sleep. front page of "the new york post," lines like this are coming to a neighborhood near you. madison alworth is live in midtown manhattan. what's the situation where you are right now? >> trace, we are at the roosevelt hotel, both a shelter as well as a migrant intake center. so any migrant that wants to stay in housing in new york city has to come to this location. i have never seen it this bad. we have been to this hotel multiple times since it became the intake center. this line continues to grow. we have been here since 6:30, barely anyone is getting inside and only getting longer. the issue being they are at capacity, not just here but in shelters across the stay. that is why mayor eric adams decided to go to d.c. to meet

with secretary mayorkas to ask for more help. what he got was a liaison with dhs. some 90,000 migrants have come through new york city, currently housing 56,000. the city is full. they are sleeping outside other shelter, tent and cardboard cities pop up. local leaders are frustrated the help they are getting from the biden administration is again just a liaison. take a listen. an that's not a plan, that's an insult. liaison, are you serious, mr. president. you dump, it's unfortunate, they are human beings, dump 90,000 migrants in new york city and then get a liaison, the

president is saying to the mayor drop dead essentially. >> new york city has received just over $104 million with fema to help with the crisis but expected to cost 4.3 billion. the 104 million number, that covers just 13 days of migrant care. democrats upset this is the way a democrat-run city is being rewarded. >> you have a president that's showing no leadership whatsoever, and he's my party. i'm embarrassed. we should not re-elect president biden if he's going to do this to new york city or any city in the united states. >> things are getting so bad. we are hearing from holden, new york city is considering dropping the sanctuary city status. they have to go through the courts, so it's not official, but it's something new york city is exploring. back to you guys. >> trace: other cities are also exploring that. madison, thank you.

sandra. >> sandra: as we mentioned, north dakota governor doug burgum will be on the debate stage for the first republican primary face-off. but before then, he'll talk with us about his 2024 strategy and how he plans to distance himself from the front-runner considering his past two endorsements of him. plus this. >> i have no concerns we will be able to replenish the spr and a savings to taxpayers because of the way it has been managed, people will be pleased to see the savings to taxpayers. >> trace: the energy secretary promising earlier this year the administration has a plan to save americans money at the pump. but prices are increasing yet again and some far left democrats have a new plan, taking big oil to courts. phil flynn is on deck to talk about this next. clearchoice ds

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>> trace: a group of far left senators calling on attorney general merrick garland to prosecute big oil companies what they say is climate disinformation. letter to the doj come as gas prices continue to climb nationwide as more hit the roads for their summer vacations.

phil flynn, oil trader and fox news contributor. you saw some numbers about people worried gas will be back to four bucks nationwide, and this is the chevron picture 30 yards behind us, put this up here. gas, you see it right there, now nearing six bucks a gallon in california. this is a hit, phil, to working families. >> it is, and this is one of the biggest problems with this energy policy from the biden administration. the way that they have tried to demonize fossil fuels and companies has discouraged investment and it's on the backs of the poor and middle class. record inflation, we have families trying to decide between food and fuel and that's not the way it should be in america, the land of plenty when it comes to energy like oil and gas. >> and talking about the

democratic senators, bernie sanders, elizabeth warren want to sue the oil companies, thanks to the illegal lies, these costs and the cost of repairing our environment and transitioning away from fossil fuels must not fall on american taxpayers. instead they must be borne by the parties responsible for driving climate change and lying about the negative impacts of their products, the polluters must pay. thoughts on that. >> it's a perfect misdirect from the failures of their own policy and they want somebody to pay for the failures that they have created. you know, right across america today there's 20 different lawsuits against big oil companies, cities, states and municipalities and they cannot even go to court because they are trying to piece together this huge grand conspiracy that really doesn't add up. and i would argue, what about the green energy lobby, right? haven't they been hyping climate

data the last 30 years, what about the predictions that have not come true, and typing up green energy we have to do this or the world will end and they admitted they hyped data to make people take it seriously. if you have to hype data then maybe you ought to go back to the data center. >> trace: fundamentals, put the numbers on the board, gas pricis under biden, up nearly 60%, he took office 2.39, today 3.78, california almost six bucks. you get the idea, oh, and we have driven down gas prices, and it's the same narrative whether they are talking about hunter biden or the border or gas prices, oh, no, no, this is -- we have done yoeman's work on this and people, are they buying it. they can't be, phil. your final thoughts. >> the people i'm talking to are not buying it. they look at the numbers, since president biden came into office and listen, they talk about we

released oil from the strategic reserve, what great guys are we. you probably wouldn't have had to do that if you didn't discourage u.s. oil production and by doing that you actually distorted the market, short-term price relief for longer term pain. >> trace: great to have you on as always. thank you. >> sandra: a live look inside the suffolk county courthouse, gilgo beach murder suspect rex heuermann will be appearing before a judge for a pretrial conference hearing. he could be facing new charges and we could be learning new details. >> trace: indeed we could. as president biden vacations at his beach house in delaware, the white house wants to renew a powerful foreign surveillance tool the fbi has repeatedly used to spy on americans. details on that straight ahead. call newday. pay off your high rate credit cards and car loan

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>> sandra: the biden white house wants lawmakers to have the powerful spy program, a larming history by the fbi breaking the rules here in the u.s. mark meredith is in rehobeth beach, delaware. why is the white house pushing so hard to re-authorize the program? >> good afternoon to you. white house knows lawmakers are not thrilled with the idea of re-authorizing section 702 of the foreign intelligence surveillance act, fears the program has been abused in the past but a new report said they believe it's vital to national security. the white house says through section 702 they have been able to stop countless terror attacks and save lives as well. the white house said thanks to intelligence obtained under this authority, the u.s. has understood and responded to threats posed by china,

atrocities in ukraine, and harm to america. but too often the program to surveil foreigners abroad not americans collected data on u.s. citizens and some believe with the fbi has relied on the process way too much. >> we must consider whether fisa and section 702 can be reformed or if it's beyond repair. i for one see no reason for members on either side of the aisle to trust the fbi with this tool. >> the fbi says section 702 is vital to doing its job, they believe there could be changes made but also want to make sure its effectiveness is not limited and the debate on the hill, there is a talk about how quickly it will get done and a deadline as section 702 expires at the end of this year. >> sandra: mark, thank you. and here we go, approach the top of a brand-new hour on this

tuesday afternoon, this is the fox news alert, you are looking live at a new york courthouse where the suspected gilgo beach serial killer is expected to face a judge for the very first time since his arrest last month. 59-year-old rex heuermann is charged with killing three women who disappeared over a decade ago. their bodies found along the coastline of long island. sandra smith in new york. welcome as we begin a brand-new hour. trace. great to have you today. >> trace: i'm trace gallagher in for john robbers. exclusive pictures inside the home after the 12 day police search. >> sandra: they found material, including hundreds of firearms stored inside a basement vault. experts say evidence may not be enough. >> it's likely they are going to need more. evidence culled over a period of almost a