us. >> one of my favorite, a crucial verse, it says tell the truth, don't lie, don't lie, because if you go down one lie you'll do another and before you know it you've lost your soul. >> there is no doubt he is telling the truth, and millions are recognizing it. what a powerful song. go listen to it, everyone. watch the debates tonight. "america reports." >> sandra: thank you, ladies. active shooter in pittsburgh with a swat team and the fbi responding to the scene. live pictures in pittsburgh. hello, welcome, sandra smith in new york. >> john: john roberts in washington, this is "america reports." debate day, sandra. people nearby the situation are being evacuated from their homes. sheriff's deputies were serving an eviction notice and he opened fire and barricaded himself. >> sandra: a half mile away from

the children's hospital of pittsburgh, quickly went into lockdown as the situation unfolded there. rich has the latest on all of this. what's happening now, rich? >> rich: good afternoon, sandra. police say the shooter is still holed up, they are evacuating nearby houses and asking others to shelter in place. around 11:00 a.m., police in pittsburgh started warning residents to avoid the area because of an active shooter. the allegany county sheriff's office says deputies served an eviction notice. that turned violent and he began shooting. local reports say the swat team then surrounded the house and escorted sheriff's deputies out of there, including one who was reportedly pinned down. cameras on the scene picked up the sound of more heavy gunfire a short while ago. [gunfire] local reports saying sheriffs

ran out of bullets and hundreds of rounds have been fired. it's unclear if there is one shooter or multiple or any hostages here. this is an in a residential neighborhood across from a large cemetery and half mile from a children's hospital. children's hospital of pittsburgh said in a statement "the individual is accounted for and there is no direct threat to patients, staff and visitors, enhanced security is present on campus and will continue through the day." and deputies showed up, some were hollering for 45 minutes or so, and then heard we're coming in and that's what the shooting started. she said she just tried to get to the basement after all this, and the person who was living in that house, she said, was not pleasant. sandra, back to you. >> sandra: keep us posted from pittsburgh, thank you. >> tonight we don't want to hear sound bites from the candidates,

we want substance. we want principles. >> you have to figure out how to stand out from the crowd. playing it safe, sticking in your talking points and not get absolutely killed is typically the strategy, it can't be tomorrow for any of them. >> the more they make joe biden the conversation center point as opposed to somebody else on the stage or somebody not on the stage the better off they are. >> john: eight candidates are putting their finishing remarks, the first opportunity for candidates to introduce themselves to america. >> sandra: the dnc is set to hold a news conference, expected to paint the candidates on that stage tonight as extreme. and their attacks won't stop there. democrats taking to the skies to fly an anti-maga banner over the debate venue there in milwaukee. >> john: ah, yes, it's underway, isn't it. and while the president won't be watching, at least according to his aides, his policies

certainly will be up for debate. candidates expected to be pressed on everything from pocket book issues to foreign policy. >> sandra: fox team coverage kicks off with marc thiessen on what americans will be watching for tonight. >> john: first to alexis mcadams, live in milwaukee and the candidates are already taking some shots at each other. alexis. >> good afternoon, john and sandra. that's right, and we are in a hot and steamy milwaukee, all the candidates are ready to get up on the debate stage. we could probably see some fireworks, we have seen some punches thrown on the ground. we checked in a short time ago with governor ron desantis campaign, one reason he is targeted on the debate stage, they plan to see that happen and that he's been really targeted leading up to this. they say it's because he is the main candidate that everyone is afraid of. listen. >> and yeah, everybody is going to try to take a shot at the top guy on the stage. i've seen him on the trail, he does exceptionally well when he

is pushed. >> so to be determined on that. but former new jersey chris christie is attacking desantis, slamming desantis for repeating talking points from the leaked memo by a super pac, going after vivek ramaswamy and defending donald trump. chris christie tweeted this or posted this on social media, saying a florida politician shown he can memorize lines from a consultant, what could possibly go wrong. and this is who is on the debate stage in milwaukee. we are still waiting to hear if governor doug burgum will make it. he hurt his leg playing basketball last night and the team is not sure if he's on the stage, and some of the video clips from vivek ramaswamy campaigning on the ground, trying to compare himself to the founding fathers saying he's ready to be out there, even though he's the youngest candidate. and checked in with people here

on the ground, john and sandra, say their main issue here is the economy and they want to know what the candidates are going to do about it. >> john: well, let's hope that doug burgum is better and is on the stage tonight. we wish him well. i hope he gets well soon. alexis mcadams for us soon in a steamy milwaukee. >> that's right. >> sandra: marc thiessen, great to have you here. i think everybody has their own set of expectations for what we are going to see play out on the stage tonight. what does marc thiessen expect. >> i think it's a blessing in disguise trump is not going to be there. he's such a big personality, he sucks all the oxygen out of the room. now the voters are going to get a very clear look unobstructed view of the alternatives to donald trump. and they are going to have a chance to shine and look, the fact is it what voters are going to see on the stage is embarrassment of riches. the republican party has a strong bet, so much experience, vision, so much talent on the

stage and voters will have a chance to hear the candidates debate, see if somebody emerges that impresses them but they'll look at that talent and say we would be crazy not to consider one of these people as our standard bearer. >> sandra: really interesting stuff. what marc is expecting. and wisconsin residents what they want to hear. >> i have not made my mind up who i want to support going forward, so i would like to hear from all the candidates. this is a very divided country. >> i would like to hear some vision for the country as opposed to just arguing over who is right and who is wrong. >> i'm very depressed about the choices that we have coming up in the next presidential election. i think both parties are not listening to the needs of americans. >> sandra: really interesting stuff, marc. when i talk to a lot of folks who are going to watch tonight, what i hear is they want -- they want substance, they want to know where these candidates stand on the issues.

they really want them to, you know, lay the ground work for what things would look like under their leadership. do you think we'll get that, or could this turn into some sort of food fight on the stage? >> i hope it doesn't turn into a food fight and they have to think about the first guy in the clip, said i'm still open minded. a cbs poll showed for example, desantis in the 20s and the numbers, seven in ten republicans say they are considering him. so the numbers that the people have in the polls are not necessarily mean that they are closed off to those candidates. they want to see what they have to say and the important thing for them, lay out a positive vision for the republican party, positive vision what they will do in office if elected and how they are going to take on joe biden. as they walk to the stage, can this person take on joe biden and win and implement an agenda i agree with and who is the best candidate to do that. each has to make the case and until tonight it's pre-game.

this is the super bowl now, the game has finally started and there's a reason why we play the game. >> sandra: you know, i want to turn now to president biden, obviously he won't be in the room, his name will be brought up, on vacation at the moment. but there is still criticism pouring into that maui moment, right, marc, writing this morning he's told exaggerated house fire story to the victims of the tragedies but accused of showing the same callousness to the maui fire and the gold star families from the afghan withdrawal. the awkward moment. >> i don't want to compare difficulties but we have a little sense, jill and i, what it's like to lose a home. almost lost my wife, my 67 corvette, and my cat. >> by the way, i told my granddaughter whose name is maisy as well, she said, that's why i like here. >> you catch the boots out here?

that's some hot ground, man. >> sandra: a cringey joke. and you said he could be entering no more friendly territory to be greeted with angry residents this. is just some of the furious hawaiians blasting his antics during the trip. >> multi-million dollar photo op. we could have used that money directly to lahaina, to house more of the families. >> nothing that compares to what happened to our community, our beautiful little town. lahaina is so hurt and he was tone deaf. >> you talk about your house you had a little fire. almost lost your cat and corvette. there were children that were incinerated, you vile human being. >> sandra: the man who won't be on the stage, president biden, how do you envision those gop

candidates targeting him on the stage coming off of that now viral moment for the president? >> first of all, when i was watching the people saying 13 days too late as motorcade drove by, 13 days on the beach and then lake tahoe, i thought is he quiet quitting, you know, his job. this is ridiculous, sit for 13 days. i worked in the bush white house during hurricane katrina and he was eviserated for doing a flyover, can you imagine if george bush during hurricane katrina had spent a week at the beach and then followed by a week in lake tahoe, and finally showed up for a few hours said i know you how feel i once had a flood in my basement and almost lost my corvette and cat. he would be crucified.

yet joe biden sits on the beach for a week, doesn't even have an expression of concern for the people of hawaii, and then goes on to lake tahoe, then shows up for a few hours, makes jokes in front -- look at the scenes that he's doing this in front of, like he doesn't even know where he is, and makes jokes and it's perfectly fine. the media is absolutely covering for this guy, just compare the katrina coverage to what we have seen in the last week, they are in the tank for giving this guy a second term. >> sandra: when you hear from the hawaii residents they are outraged how it went down. see how it goes down tonight. marc, good to see you, thank you. >> thank you, sandra. >> john: coming up, bret baier and house oversight committee chairman james comer joining us from milwaukee, the site of the first gop debate. tune in tonight, 9:00 eastern as the candidates face off on stage. the big show will be moderated by bret baier and martha maccallum, and bill hemmer and

dana perino a half hour before the show tonight. >> sandra: ronna mcdaniel said excited to showcase the diverse candidate field to beat joe biden. there is a very deep bench there and very diverse line-up, john. it is going to be fascinating to watch. >> john: it will be, it's a deep bench but deep underwater compared to where former president trump is by 40 something points. so there is going to have to be some stand-up moments. >> sandra: china holding military drills near taiwan as a warning after a top taipei official travels to the u.s. beijing a likely topic at tonight's debate. so, how will candidates respond to that? >> john: plus the justice department inspector general is reportedly telling congress he could reach a limit in his

efforts to investigate whistleblower complaints on the hunter biden probe. michael waltz will join us with new reaction on that coming up next. >> there's been interference at the highest levels of our government regarding investigation into hunter biden. we are getting to the bottom of it, exposing every day. the grocery store and the gas station alone are taking a big chunk out of our paychecks. fortunately, you've earned the valuable va home loan benefit. the newday100 va loan lets you borrow up to 100% of your home's value, not just 80%. and with home values near record highs, that could mean a lot of money. let newday turn your home's equity into cash. let me be direct... you're watching football wrong! what do you call a guy in face paint that can't get the game? ...a clown! sorry, what app was it again? no, no. just give me a second... amateurs. ohhh!

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>> sandra: russian state media is claiming that wagner group chief is killed in a plane crash in a flight from moscow to st. petersburg. michael waltz sits on the house armed services committee and will join us with reaction in a moment. but the news with jennifer griffin, she's live at the pentagon as we learn the details here, jennifer. what exactly do we know about

this at this point? >> sandra, what we know is from the official news agency tas, says a private plane carrying ten people on board and among those people, the head of the wagner group who attempted a coup over a month ago, the plane crashed, northwest of moscow, en route to st. petersburg. there is some video evidence on telegram and twitter suggesting a russian air defense system may have shot down the private jet and that he was on board. nobody expected him to survive very long after attempting that coup against vladimir putin, in some ways it's surprising he

lived as long as he did. if these reports are proven to be true, state services are now reporting the head of the wagner group was killed in a plane crash outside moscow. sandra. >> sandra: jennifer griffin, we'll get back to you with more details from the news, thank you very much. john. >> john: for more on this, let's bring in michael waltz, a member of the house armed services and foreign affairs committee. as jennifer said, thought his days might have been numbered but this was not too subtle. >> yeah, john, right. surprise, surprise. if you cross putin, don't fire your food taster, don't stay in a high rise hotel and apparently don't fly private in russia. but listen, make no mistake, this was intended to send a signal across the russian military, number one, and number two, we still can't count out

the wagner capability, the mercenary capability that putin is using in africa right now. >> john: yeah, well, we'll see what the fallout from this is, if any. we know a lot of people were loyal to him and clearly putin did not want him around much longer. i want to go to the debate tonight because you are there in milwaukee. your colleague, congressman mike gallagher, had an op-ed in the wall street journal in which he said what he really wants to hear tonight is the candidates talk more about china. he said "the best policies to address the chinese communist party threat to the u.s. and promote peace in the indo-pacific will determine who passes the commander in chief test. this is the best opportunity to differentiate themselves." what do you think about that? do you want to hear a lot about china tonight? >> i do, john, because if you listen to chairman xi, openly

talking about war with the west, telling husband country to prepare for war, the next commander in chief could be a wartime president and god help us if it's joe biden. but here is the thing i want to hear. there is the military aspect, of course, but really, i think this is going to be won or lost with china economically. president trump started a huge first step with the tariffs on steel and on aluminum. but when we talk about wall street, academia, when we talk about the nba and decoupling, how are the candidates going to do that when so many aspects of america are drunk on chinese dollars. >> john: you know, right now in south africa, we have been showing some pictures of this on the screen next to you, is the so-called bricks summit, which includes brazil, russia, india, china, and south africa. it's a rival organization to the g7, i guess is the best way you could put it. they want to replace the dollar

as the world's reserve currency, xi jinping wants to expand this group. is the biden administration doing enough to counter what's going on there in south africa? >> well, not yet. that said, john, i was just in india literally last week and i got to tell you, that is the most critical strategic relationship of the 21st century. they have a population larger than china yet their economy is only a third the size. they want to partner more with us, they are buying more of our defense equipment, whether i.t., space, pharma, 800 million indians online so i want to see that relationship get tighter. the thing that we have are allies and partners and that's what the chinese don't have. they are pushing people towards us, which is a good thing with you again, what kind of understanding do we have on the

stage of these complex geo strategic relationships, what do they understand about our trade relationships, how we are going to decouple, who we are going to partner with. i agree with rep gallagher, that's what we need to hear tonight. >> john: xi jinping was supposed to give a keynote address at the brics summit, he didn't make it to the speech, his commerce minister read out the speech. don't know what's going on there. but quickly about this, inspector general at the doj, michael horowitz, a tough, independent as you can be investigator, has told three committees in congress that he may not be able to investigate these whistleblower allegations of impropriety at the doj and the hunter biden investigation saying he may need to turn that part of the investigation over to the office of professional responsibility at the doj. the question a lot of people have is if the inspector general can't investigate the doj, who really can?

>> yeah, so here is the two big questions i have and what's so odd about this. he's saying it may exceed his jurisdiction, does that mean it's because the white house is in involved or the irs, other agent circumstance and the other piece, and might be a master stroke for biden to make weiss the u.s. attorney who gave hunter the sweetheart deal now that independent special prosecutor, it allows him to sit this thing, the hunter investigation under investigation for -- in perpetuity and what we are hearing from folks like the i.g. is well, i can't give you information on that because it's under investigation so they have sat on it the last five years and now able to sit on it past the 2024 election, perhaps. but i know jim jordan, jamie comer and congress are on top of this. but i think at the end of the day this was a move to be able to hide the whole thing from congress and once again, we have a miscarriage, a travesty of

justice going on here. >> john: and some legal analysts say the longer, and the statute of limitations is running out. enjoy the debate tonight. appreciate you coming on. >> all right. >> sandra: san francisco mayor london breed fired up over the city's homeless crisis after a court order stopped officials from clearing tent camps out of city streets. how she's prepared to take the issue all the way to the supreme court. >> john: plus first time home buyers cannot catch a break. sky high mortgage rates and inventory are making it almost impossible to buy a home. charles payne next. >> sellers are not selling, buyers are not buying, prices are holding up because inventory is it still very low.

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police are commenting on the shooter who we are told is still inside of that home. let's dip in here and get the news. >> coming from police or coming from the suspect or back and forth? >> we just set up a couple -- the suspect did shoot previous drones, right now an active gunfire situation. i will leave you with that and as best as possibly can. check on our twitter account for updated information. >> we are hearing they are calling for more ammunition. is there a concern there is so much rounds fired you need more ammunition brought in? >> that's always a thought, really good question, actually. right now we are focusing on any and all troops in the area to help out with troop b major case team. might see units from d, e, a, to assist with the investigation. trooper rocco gaglardi.

>> you just heard from state police -- >> sandra: active gunfire situation is how this is being treated at this moment. they are calling in as many police as they can, it sounds like in the area. you can see what is happening on the streets in pittsburgh. they evacuated this neighborhood as an active shooting situation unfolded in garfield. the suspect was shooting down police drones, you are getting that update just a moment ago there, it began this morning when detail from the allegany sheriff's office attempted to serve an eviction notice, followed by gunfire from the occupant of the residence who we are told is still inside of that home. so that was an update from one of the troopers on the ground. we will go back with any news we get from the active shooter situation as we get it. >> we have noticed a dramatic increase in prices at the grocery store across the board, every time we leave we look at how much bigger the bill has

gotten. >> a lot of people out here homeless, they can't buy food. >> normally i'm trying to be more conscious, for sure, and what subscriptions i have and how much i'm buying. >> have to buy small meals, even to go to pantries. >> john: voters' concerns about the economy will be a major talking point at the gop debate. inflation has surged to levels not seen in decades under president biden. and families are struggling just to afford basic necessities. we have team coverage for you this afternoon. charles payne will join us shortly to talk about the out of control housing market. but first, fox business's grady trimble with the candidates' thoughts on biden economy, live in milwaukee. grady. >> hey, john, and voters' thoughts on the economy. they want to hear the plan to tamp down inflation, to rein in government spending and unleash

american energy. the current president is touting a strong economy but the presidential hopefuls are saying americans are not feeling that. take a listen to voters who have told us about their economic worries. >> especially with biden's policies, just kind of pumping money into economy, kinds of scary as a college student seeing inflation throughout your entire college career. just wondering about, are you going to have a job after college. >> the democratic national committee has put up billboards all over the city of milwaukee in support of president biden. and despite what you just heard from voters who have noticed that prices are way up since president biden took office, and that interest rates are climbing, making it more expensive to buy a home and a car, despite that, the chair of the dnc claims the economy is not a vulnerability for democrats.

>> every economic measure out there shows that you know, we are not going into recession. we are roaring back into the future on this economic message. >> a lot of the voters we have talked to here tell us they have not made up their minds yet on who they are going to vote for. they to be persuaded. so, john, whoever makes the most compelling case on the pocket book issues could stand out, not only on the debate stage but also against president biden and bidenomics. >> john: biden not too popular on the economy, lots of room for debate there. grady trimble, thank you, grady. >> sandra: existing home sales dropping for the fourth time in five months. high mortgage rates, low inventory are making it a real challenge especially for first time home buyers that affordability is going down. the forbes headline puts it like this, housing market affordability is worse now than

at the height of the housing bubble in 2006. charles payne, host of making money on fox business. surely you can bring some calm to the situation. for most americans, owning a home, that will be the largest asset they ever acquire in their life. so, for many people looking to buy a home, currently in a home, what is happening here? >> if you are in a home, you are in an amazing position. the average mortgage is 3.5%, and a lot of people have under 3%. we are headed to 8%. so if you have -- this is the first time since 2005 where existing homes are more valuable than new homes. so you are sitting pretty. what about the rest of the population. and by the way, you may be in one of the houses with a good low mortgage what if you get a job market, you can't take it. you have to sell this house and then the 8% mortgage. existing home sales are down now 23 consecutive months year over year.

year over year. and sandra, it's the worst since the housing boom, you end up with the big crash. to correct this, this is what would happen to correct this. the three scenarios where this could get back to normal, precovid normal. housing prices would drop 41%, nobody wants that. income go up 69%, that ain't happening unless you can drive a u.p.s. truck and mortgage rates down 4.3%, none of these are going to happen. so we are in a serious quandary. how did we get here? all of that free money. you throw in trillions and trillions of dollars, we had inflation, of course we know we talked about this, spike today a 40 year high inflation, inflation levels we thought we would never deal with, $32 trillion in debt. the federal reserve, they had to come to the rescue, at least attempted to come to the rescue and tamp this down. nothing is worse than inflation which erodes all of our purchasing power. >> sandra: if you are looking to buy a home right now, this is a

concerning reality. we tried to put this together for people to look at and digest the environment. right now, the average home price in america if you can believe this, it's gone beyond $400,000. that is really something. with the typical down payment, mortgage rates at 6.6%, to meet your monthly payments on a new home purchase like that, you would need a salary of over $165,000 in this country. that is the reality of the situation. that is why that affordability is going to levels we have not seen before. >> goldman sachs affordability index at the lowest ever, ever, ever, ever. another way for you, let's say you want to buy a house and you want to put 20% down, average payment right now for the average person, $2,300 a month. before the covid, it was $900 a month. so i mean, that's a magnificent -- >> sandra: interesting to see how the gop candidates on the

stage take it on tonight, what they can promise voters they can do to sort of avoid that scenario. >> hit this hard in my take on my show later today. listen, they will all say the same kind of thing. we know who got us in the situation, exactly how do you get us out, how do we return to organic, strong growth that is the american way without artificial spikes that come back to haunt us, you know. the era of free money is hopefully over, what replaces it. >> sandra: interesting stuff. real quickly, this is a couple heads of business and those that are speaking on behalf of the workers that we have had on this program talking about just how hard it is, despite everything you just said, to find work in this country right now. listen to this. >> if i had more workers i could get a lot more done. i do get applicants, but are you going to stick around? are you serious about this? >> baby boomers are retiring at a greater rate we can recruit more people in the industry.

schools push people to colleges and don't consider putting people to the trades. >> we are in this environment of it's hard to find work, it's hard to keep work, to retain people. >> the hard part is not finding works, the hard part is employers to find quality workers. this is an acute problem, particularly for small businesses. they say it's the number one problem. >> a huge story so many are talking about all over the country. >> it's amazing, and part is a new culture, not working on mondays, ghosting the job, all of these things, bad habits people have gotten into. >> sandra: good to have you here, we have some breaking news. >> john: all right, the short lived mutiny against the russian military, according to reports in russian media has been killed in a plane crash as he was 1 of 10 passengers on board, or ten people on board a small plane,

embraer, from moscow to st. petersburg. there are reports that jennifer griffin cited a short time ago that perhaps a russian surface to air missile took the plane down. trey yingst is monitoring the situation. jennifer remarked that nobody thought he was going to last very long and apparently he didn't. >> good afternoon. she's exactly right. the information we are getting in right now, according to russian state media, indicates that the leader of the wagner group has been killed in a plane crash just outside of moscow. a business jet was flying from the russian capital to russia's second largest city of st. petersburg when it was apparently, according to reports, shot down by russian air defense. the timing of this is significant. as you mentioned, less than two months ago, he led an attempted mutiny on the russian capital of moscow gathering thousands of his fighters in southern russia and attempting to march on the

capital. many reports indicated that he was back in the good graces of russian president vladimir putin on monday. his official telegram channel released a video showing him in subsaharan africa, wagner had been operating on behalf of the russian government. but a question how a man that tried to lead a coup against vladimir putin could survive. this is all according to preliminary reports and information from russian state media, indicating ten people on board this business jet, three were crew members and one of them was the leader of the wagner group. he used fake identities to get away from certain things. we don't want to speculate who shot it down but russian state

media indicating the 62-year-old leader of the wagner group was killed when his business jet was shot out of the sky by reported russian air defense systems. john. >> john: i assume the russian air defense systems don't accidentally go off and if putin wanted to get rid of him he might do it in a more subtle fashion as we have seen with some people at odds with putin. this is pretty blatant, this takedown. >> absolutely. and it's important to remember that he was not well-liked inside vladimir putin's inner circle, or among top military leadership in russia. early on in the russian invasion of ukraine, he often took over and calling his own shots in many parts of the front line. he led many of the fighters into ukraine where they committed war crimes against the ukrainian people and so this brutality was often praised by russian president vladimir putin. very quickly he was able to call decisions over top of top

russian generals, and this angered many close to vladimir putin, including the butcher of syria, as he's known, and so he had this direct line to russian president putin but when this attempted coup took place in late june, it sent a clear message at the time vladimir putin called this an armed rebellion, so there were these questions about how putin would allow a man like him to continue operating, not just surviving but representing the russian government through the wagner group in areas like subsaharan africa and syria. so reports, while they are shocking on their face, certainly do raise questions about whether or not this was ordered from the top in russia and if we will get any further confirmation about exactly who was on the plane with him and if these reports in russian state media can be confirmed independently. john. >> john: trey, i think sandra wants to jump in with a

question. >> sandra: i'm here. microphone open now. jet belonged to him, russian civilian aviation regulator that said he was on the passenger list, not immediately clear if he boarded the flight. where we are on this. how quickly would you expect that this would be confirmed? we have not yet heard from u.s. officials confirming this yet. >> absolutely. it could take days or weeks to get proper information about what exactly took place. the kremlin is not going to be able to maintain an operational silence on this. he is a figure that is known throughout russia and the world. he is the person who directly tried to pull vladimir putin from power, threatened the russian leader and leader known for things like poisoning the opposition. navalny, a strong opponent of russian president vladimir putin was poisoned and then put in jail, so putin does not take

kindly to those who threaten his power and that's part of the reason the questions are raised about whether or not this was ordered from the top but there will be a lot of investigation and speculation in the international community about what exactly took place. john raises an important point that when the russian air defense systems lock on to a target they have to receive confirmation, they are not just simply firing off trying to shoot things out of the sky. so the fact a business jet was clearly through russia's aviation agency on the flight logs was flying from the russian capital of moscow to st. petersburg indicates that someone somewhere knew that people were on board this jet, it was not an enemy plane, and that any sort of spin that you might hear initially from the kremlin should be taken with skepticism as we wait for any sort of statement from officials in moscow. sandra, john. >> sandra: trey yingst, thank you. we'll get back to you as we have more details. joining us by phone, michael allen, former national security

council under george w. bush. thank you for joining us. what we know so far, russian media saying the wagner head was on the plane that crashed in russia killing ten on board. it was a private plane, we are told an embraer aircraft, according to those reports. >> if it turns out to be true, we'll remember the early takes about the mutiny led by progozhin were true, takes were there were fissures in the putin team, and he wanted to remind them in an strident fashion he

is in charge and he has done it again today in a typically dramatic style. >> john: john here, and if you make the phone call to your military to say he's flying to st. petersburg, take him out. why do you wait until now? why not do it right after the mutiny? >> it may be that there was information that putin needed to gather and begin to understand and that's why it took so long. for example, i think prigozhin knew he had a general, but some reports was that he wanted to recruit other generals to his side when he began the revolt and he was unable to do so. i wonder if there's not more intelligence or information that's been gathered that was presented to putin that showed that the coup or attempted coup certainly a mutiny was much

broader than they realized at the time and that this punishment was coming down the pike. >> sandra: some details here, the russian state news agency citing emergency officials saying the plane was carrying three pilots, and seven passengers, though still to add to that is not clear if prigozhin was on the passenger list, en route from moscow to st. petersburg, more than 100 kilometers north of the capital and authorities are still investigating. tracking the flight data. associated press is showing a private jet did register to wagner that he had used previously, did indeed take off from moscow on wednesday evening and trans responder signal disappeared minutes later. just some of the details we are learning at this moment, michael.

>> yes. this i think reminds me of other times when the russians have shot down apparently by accident a commercial airliner, of course they used poisoning, you know, putin, i think, has a dramatic flair and in a case like this when he is reasserting power, sending a message not only to the elites and oligarchs in russia that he is still in charge, but i think sending a message to the world that reports about my viability as president of russia were false. i am still in charge, i am still going to prosecute this war against ukraine to the fullest and anyone who thought that putin might be on the way out and showed or exposed weakness in his regime, i think putin has an answer for them today. >> john: an old saying if you are going to kill the king, michael, better kill the king. although prigozhin says putin

was never his target, he was staging the mutiny against the russian military. he was exiled to belarus, but still travelling back and forth between russia and belarus. but earlier this week he posted a big recruitment video in which he said that he was making russia even greater on all continents and africa even more free, a lot of wagner's operations are in africa. but i mean, clearly putin has been gunning for this guy for some time, and i don't know if as you say new intelligence came to light or whatever, putin was biding his time until he had a chance to make a very public statement as to what he thought about prigozhin, maybe he felt he did not have a chance to make a splash like today. >> reminds me of "the godfather" scene when michael sends his brother-in-law to vegas and he's sending him to his death.

in this case putin apparently indicated that you can continue to have a career in africa, continue to do wagner and russia's business there, but while he may have had that intent in the short-term, i think either he's uncovered information or this was his plan all along, or finally all the the criticism of his regime and the weakness thereof really got under his skin and he knew he needed to do something big to reassert control. >> john: avenue with still picture of the crash site there, you can see the flames and the smoke and apparently no survivors from that crash. mike, thanks very much. good to get your take on things. bring back in jennifer griffin and jennifer, you were the first one to alert us to these reports that this plane may have been taken down by a russian surface to air missile. do we have any confirmation of that? >> there's no confirmation of it, although there is a clear video on telegram that shows a

missile flying and then the plane going down. but the pentagon and state department are not confirming the death of prigozhin, i would not expect them to time on it. the coup took place between june 23rd and june 24th, it's almost exactly two months later. whether we heard bill burns, the head of the cia speak in aspen earlier this summer he pointed out that it would make sense and what they would expect is for putin, putin does not like to look very, like he's reacting to something in anger, and that he was going to bide his time and look at putin today. he's not able to be present physically at the brics conference in south africa, president xi is there, other leaders of india and south africa are present, he could not go there because he is wanted for war crimes and an

international arrest warrant out for putin so this is a signal that putin is sending that he's still in charge of russia, not to count him out, and prigozhin lured him to belarus with false promises that he would survive this coup attempt. and then told him he could go to africa, a video of prigozhin speaking of the wagner forces in africa and do great things for russia and that came out just yesterday. and just yesterday you get news that the head of the air force who was his ally allegedly, general servikin had been removed from his position. so, this is all part of putin playing out his reaction to that coup exactly two months ago. many felt that this could have happened sooner, but it was only a matter of time from anybody who watches the kremlin closely. >> sandra: jennifer, we have up

on the screen now the shooting down of that private jet belonging to prigozhin, we just had the still of the actual crash but new video just now. also getting another report now from the russian emergency services that eight bodies were found on-site of the private jet crash, jennifer. >> well, we know ten were listed on board and that he was on the manifest. again, until you have dna evidence it's not clear but certainly seems, i would be very surprised if he was not on board or that vladimir putin and his security services didn't know that he was on board. i think what's interesting is that the wagner mercenaries, what impact on the ukraine fight. the wagner mercenaries after the coup were pretty much told to go home. given an out to go to belarus to be folded back into the russian

military. the defense chiefs remained in position, the ones that prigozhin was carrying out the coup against so putin clearly sided with his defense chiefs and those wagner mercenaries were then given false hope they would have business in africa and that's why putin allowed him to go down to africa and start to look like he was going to not be involved in ukraine any more, but down in africa. and now he is dead and so it really takes all the potential for the wagner mercenaries who now have dispersed and are not in ukraine anymore from any sort of their ability to push back against putin. they now have lost their leader and they have been dispersed and they are not in ukraine anymore. >> john: curious, jennifer, that russian media is reporting eight bodies were found when the plane's manifest had ten people on board.

you wonder, did a couple of people come out of the plane after the explosion, did he say he was on the plane yet he wasn't, might he surface somewhere else or is he indeed dead. the video of the plane coming down out of the sky, if this is that plane, i mean, unless there was some sort of catastrophic spontaneous in-air explosion as we saw with twa800, it's not the way plane crashes typically happen unless it's shot out of the sky. >> the initial reports a missile was seen in the sky, it would not be surprising if a russian missile shot down the plane, and at this point in time you know, again, putin likes the dramatic effect of many expected that he would be pushed out of a window as many of putin's other adversaries had been of late or poisoned, but this is something

that it'tas is reporting it, it's rolled out by state media, this is something putin wants not only domestic russians to see, but the world to see and it is a message that he is still the strong man in control of the kremlin and he took two months to plot the demise of his adversary and now today we hear of reports that he was on the manifest of the plane and assumed to be dead. >> sandra: joining us on the phone is retired lieutenant governor keith kellogg. at a concert dedicate to the 88th victory of soviet troops in battle, but what's your reaction to what we are seeing, brand-new video, top right of the screen of this plane coming down, still

on the left of the actual crash, prigozhin was listed as a passenger on the plane, we have yet to confirm but believed he was. >> sandra, thanks for having me. two immediate quotes come to mind. one is an emerson quote of years ago, when you strike at a king you must kill him. and that goes back to the mutiny of what prigozhin was leading and pulled up on that. and the second quote a military action that the first report is always wrong. and as jennifer said until you can identify prigozhin actually on board that aircraft, you know, let's hold it until he doesn't and he may have had a second aircraft. but let's make the assumption that he was on board the aircraft. another passenger apparently was utkin, and he was leading the assault force, the mutiny force heading north and the number two guy.

interestingly enough, the number three guy in wagner's group, he is called the gray man and he was not for the mutiny and he's the guy that would actually take over. so you've got this whole series of events going on, makes a lot of sense that putin would take out the adversary that he sees in prigozhin, take out the military commander, and turn it over to troshef and i think the wagner is still a capable group. they have battle hardened commanders and they want to integrate them in the military. and as jennifer said, you know, serovikin was released yesterday, and others are coming back into play for putin. so it's always a dark matter but clear putin is taking, you know, has taken retribution on a