three guy in wagner's group, he is called the gray man and he was not for the mutiny and he's the guy that would actually take over. so you've got this whole series of events going on, makes a lot of sense that putin would take out the adversary that he sees in prigozhin, take out the military commander, and turn it over to troshef and i think the wagner is still a capable group. they have battle hardened commanders and they want to integrate them in the military. and as jennifer said, you know, serovikin was released yesterday, and others are coming back into play for putin. so it's always a dark matter but clear putin is taking, you know, has taken retribution on a

mutiny and sending a very clear signal to his military and to his adversaries around the globe as well, that he's still a force to be reckoned with. >> john: general, on that point, we remember that after that mutiny, short lived as it was, there was a move by the russian military to absorb a lot of wagner mercenaries into regular russian forces. i don't know exactly how much or what percentage of the wagner mercenaries went in, but i do know that prigozhin was actively recruiting more. could they potentially merge wagner into the russian military and by doing that, bolster their forces in ukraine in a way that maybe they couldn't if prigozhin was still in charge? >> yeah, i think that's right, what they are going to do, and not so much the troops. their troops has been mauled badly by the ukrainians and reinforcing with people coming

out of jails. the key is leadership of wagner, and they are pretty good. battle hardened, they fought all over the globe. gives them the capability of a russian unit inside the russian military and it's in belarus, to the north of ukraine. so, it gives him another opportunity to develop the situation against ukraine. so i think putin is looking at this, and if it happened, and we have to be very cautious about as jennifer said, wait until we get the results of the shootdown, but now a capable military under a leader he trusts to the north of ukraine, so this is going to take some twists and turns going forward but i think you are absolutely right. it's a cohesive military unit, talented military unit, it's a brutal military unit but they could use it to their advantage in the future. >> sandra: really interesting. still waiting on some more details here. how do you expect the u.s. to

come out and respond? we have not seen exact statement out of the white house or state or any sort of reaction to what we have learned so far. >> yeah, you know, sandra, if i was going to respond to what i said, this is one of those we told you so. this just shows what kind of actor you see in putin who is going to take revenge on his enemies, he's very brutal about it. this was not a shoot down inadvertent. apparently going from moscow to st. petersburg over russian territory, shot down by a russian missile battery. that's not accidental. that was deliberately done and sending a very, very clear signal by putin and we would respond by saying it shows you what kind of individual putin is, we need to be cautious about trying to even talk to this guy, but the way he is. and i would just say this doesn't surprise me. this is what i would have expected from putin. >> john: lieutenant general keith kellogg, thanks for joining us. thanks for your thoughts on this. appreciate it. trey yingst has more information

on what putin is doing right now, and you know, one of our guests talked about this is almost being a scene out of "the godfather" and this kind of reinforces that whole notion. >> yeah, russian president vladimir putin appears to be taking a literal victory lap. right now, he's at a concert in southern russia that is marking the 80th anniversary of the soviet victory in the battle for kersk, he's walking, smiling, does not address the reports in russian state media but his attitude is upbeat. he clearly has this information. it is currently on televisions across russia and across the world. and it is significant because it shows the parallel, the juxtaposition between the leader smiling and waving at fellow citizens and the image of the

business jet outside of moscow that according to reports contained the leader of the wagner group prigozhin. he was a part of the inner circle especially after the invasion of ukraine began. wagner formed in 2014 when the russians were backing the russian-backed separatist in the eastern ukraine region. and when the invasion started, his role was significant, leading brutal fighters into battle and largely seen as a secret weapon for russian president vladimir putin and in the good graces of the russian leader but quickly that relationship soured and saw it lead to a coup attempt on the russian capital of moscow in late june and speculation what

rose afterwards what would happen to prigozhin. on monday he was in subsaharan africa where many wagner fighters are operating, but how a man who tried to overthrow the russian president could be working for the russian government in other parts of the world. and reports appear to have been coordinated across russian state media, prigozhin is dead as a result of a plane crash following air defense shooting down this business jet. as we are talking here john, getting more information in reported from the associated press indicating that flight tracking data reviewed by the a.p. shows this is a plane that prigozhin took multiple times from moscow to st. petersburg, a short flight but he often took. ten people on board, three crew members and one of them the leader of the wagner group,

prigozhin. john, sandra. >> sandra: trey, thank you for joining us, backgrounds on prigozhin and what his life had been like leading up to this moment. we were hearing that he was going through some elaborate security measures to try to prevent exactly this from happening. he was known to have -- use body doubles as part of his security measures, he was warned against going into high buildings, just some trey of what we were hearing the measures he was going through to protect himself after all of that. >> absolutely. and as part of this discussion, it's important to talk about who prigozhin was. this was a man who had body doubles, he had fake passports, files of cash ready to go and identification from across the world. when russia's intelligence agency, the gru raided the wagner compound in moscow they released photos and they released photos showing bars of

gold, and different currency from around the world. indicating that prigozhin was a man who was prepared to leave and to hide if needed. and that's part of the reason we have to take these reports from russian state media delicately. we have to understand that prigozhin in the past would try to fool the public about his whereabouts, he would use body doubles to ensure that he was not targeted or assassinated. but what we are dealing with today is an entirely different situation. all of that background had to do with prigozhin when he was operating in the role of the leader of the wagner group. he was currently operating in a role underneath russian president vladimir putin as a splinter organization of mercenaries who were not only operating previously on the ground in ukraine, but around the world in places like the sahil region in africa, and helping the regime of bashar al-assad. and the red line prigozhin

crossed was a red line that may have cost him his life once these reports are confirmed. he came at the king and he missed, as the general said. attempted to take moscow, leading thousands of fighters from southern russia where many mercenaries had come out of ukraine and it embarrassed russian president putin, putin called it an armed rebellion that had to be crushed and appears he waited just about two months to do so and take out the leader of the wagner group. >> john: to your earlier point, trey, the flight manifest said ten on board, so far reports eight bodies have been found, so still a discrepancy of two there. who knows exactly what the story is, and again, all of this from russian media, none absolutely confirmed by western sources at this point. so, we'll keep watching this closely. trey, thank you. appreciate your reporting. >> sandra: kurt volker joining us, former u.s. ambassador to

nato. news, prigozhin, owner of the wagner group among a passenger on a plane that crashed northwest of moscow. this is according to russian state media, citing aviation authorities, all ten on board were killed and ambassador, as we do learn more and we see this video, left side of the screen, the way the wall street journal is describing it, seems like the trail of a missile and then the embraer jet fouling out of the sky with a wing missing. said the russian air defenses had shot down the plane one of several aircraft owned by prigozhin. what is your reaction to what we are seeing and learning? >> well, several things. first off, it seems clear the russian air defenses shot down the plane.

second, we know prigozhin was on the manifest, so he was reported to be on the plane. we don't know whether he was actually on the plane or not, that's something maybe the russians will be able to verify or maybe we'll never know if he was actually on the plane. i think it's important that putin can have the image that he was able to take out prigozhin, so i think he wants to show that he is back in a strong position from the guy who authored this rebellion is now dead or is now missing or unaccounted for. it's possible the russians killed him before this and this is a cover, it's possible he was not on the plane at all and is off in hiding somewhere. we may never know the answer to that. we do know political dynamic in place that putin needs to demonstrate to the russian public he is actually in charge now. >> john: you know, ambassador, putin has a flair for the dramatic. we have some video, apparently he was at a concert this

evening, russia time, celebrating the anniversary, the 88th anniversary of the victory of soviet troops in the battle of kursk at the same time this was going on. brought up this frame of reference, kind of like the scene in "the godfather i" where michael is at the baptism of his child, and the meantime all the families of the heads of the families are getting executed. so putin is at this grand celebration and his chief rival is taken out of the sky by a soviet ground to air missile. it's a soap opera. >> that's the image he wants to convey. he sees himself as a godfather figure and he appeared to be weak when prigozhin did the rebellion. he was not prepared. he had to negotiate a settling down, put up proshenko, neither

one adhering, and putin was clearly on a mission to try to kill prigozhin from that point on. what we don't know is whether this was it or something else, we'll find out later. but the image about being that guy in control -- >> sandra: ambassador, we have some new video in of vladimir putin, i mentioned a moment ago, happened about a half hour we are told -- something we are told, but attending that concert in this moment. it would be interesting that this just happened, it was a dedication to the 88th anniversary of the victory of soviet troops in the battle of kursk, but interesting, obviously, that vladimir putin would have gone on public display, having this happen. he would have known that this happened, and that it was executed.

what is your reaction to that? >> yeah, well, i agree very much with trey yingst earlier on your report, that knowing this, not addressing it but showing himself to be in a comfortable and powerful situation when the public is seeing these other things is exactly the kind of image putin wants to convey. he wants to convey that he's in command and so far that seems to be playing. >> john: so what happens now? and we went over this a little bit with general keith kellogg, after the failed mutiny, the russian military absorbed in a number of mercenaries, prigozhin did not want to lose his forces to the russian military, he had taken troops to belarus where he had set up shop, with wagner group now without a head, does

the russian military move to take in some of these in some cases well-trained battle hardened troops and throw them into the fight in ukraine or does wagner kind of disappear? >> good question. what i suspect is i think russia will want to reconstitute the wagner group. assuming prigozhin is gone, we have to assume that now, they want to reconstitute the wagner group as a paramilitary force outside the regular russian military that can still act in unchartered ways in africa, in the middle east, overthrowing government, etc., so rebrand into something else and have it under more control. i think that's one thing. and then the other is that they will want to take some of the wagner fighters, more experienced ones, and bring them in and make them trainers in the russian military.

the russian military has suffered from quality training and the development of personnel and bringing in some of these wagner guys to actually train the russian military, something you very much want to. >> sandra: we'll see. we are looking for any new details coming into us right now, but yet to have this officially confirmed, we have not heard from u.s. officials specifically on this, ambassador. surely the president is on vacation right now, surely we'll hear something soon. but this is what we know so far, that that plane has gone down, wagner was listed as a passenger. eight bodies were found at the scene reportedly, ten were listed on board, including pilots and staff. but we just don't know yet. what will that process be like, what do you expect is the time frame, ambassador, before we can know officially if he was on board and killed? >> well, i -- i honestly don't know we'll ever feel comfortable

with the answer. russian authorities will investigate and either have evidence that he was on board, or show he was not on board and keep him in the run and keep wagner in fear. we'll have to see how it plays out. >> john: a lot of questions ahead, and as you said, ambassador, you know, this is russian state media, for the most part. will we ever know, there was clearly that incredible impact of the plane into the ground and ensuing fire we can see in the top right-hand side of the screen. remains clearly will be mutilated and charred beyond recognition, dna, potentially dental records to identify and who knows what you can trust coming out of russia. we may never know. >> the russian media, they can

make it up. >> john: yep. well, i guess, i don't want to say we have to take them at their word, but i guess we will to the best of our ability try to confirm the facts on the ground. but that may be very difficult because i'm sure the area will be cordoned off to the western media. there will probably be no photograph of prigozhin in the record, so -- all right. well, ambassador, thank you so much. we appreciate your time. >> thank you. and what i would say about u.s. policy, if i could say u.s. policy, this is an entertaining and interesting issue. it shouldn't make a difference in terms of what the u.s. should be focused on. our larger strategic interest as a country are that ukraine succeeds in defending itself against russia and recovering its territory. russia has to come to terms it's not going to take over ukraine and prigozhin and that is just an incidental thing.

>> sandra: ambassador, then, thank you so much for joining us and john, just going through some of the details we know so far, the federal air transport agency has launched an investigation into this crash. three crew members, seven passengers were on board the embraer jet, per russian media at this moment. at least eight bodies have been found at the crash site according to government emergency services. there's a playback of the flight that is available on flight radar 24 that you'll see a lot of sources are citing that shows that the plane was detected near moscow around 2:59 p.m. at 3:11, the aircraft lost signal at 20,000 feet altitude. it did not show a loss in altitude, not generally the way a plane crashes due to,

obviously, something happening to that plane in flight, russian state media is reporting that the private jet was on the way from moscow to st. petersburg, so we are still waiting on exact details of what caused this crash and who exactly was on board. >> john: again as we mentioned last hour, unless there was some sort of catastrophic spontaneous explosion as we saw with twa800 that split the aircraft in half and dropped it into the atlantic ocean off of long island, what we are seeing there, this is indeed that aircraft coming down, would indicate that it was probably shot down and then plunged straight into the ground. sorry, go ahead. >> sandra: i was go to add we are told the president and the white house has been briefed on this matter, but no statement at this time, john. >> john: trey yingst has the latest information on all of this. any kind of confirmation and again, to ambassador volker's point, how do you ever trust

what russia is saying, but any confirmation that a sam did take this plane down. >> we have not received confirmation yet this was russian air defense outside the capital of moscow, but the timing is interesting. trans ponder lost contact with ground control. the plane, according to the video, appears to have been shot out of the sky by missile defense around the russian capital. but all of this appears to have some level of coordination. you have russian president putin at this concert in southern russia. russian state media is reporting that prigozhin was killed in the crash and this is something that would not take place if there wasn't an understanding behind the scenes of who was on board or who at least the russian government wanted the world to believe was on board. we may never know if prigozhin was on the flight unless he shows up somewhere else and as you noted earlier, the russians want to show the wagner leader

on the run or something like this. interestingly, we have not yet heard from russia's key ally, from the leader of belarus, lukashenko, and this is an important point. after the coup attempt in late june, thousands of wagner fighters moved to belarus. there were convoys of these troops and mercenaries on the ground in different camps across belarus and of concern to ukrainian officials that maybe vladimir putin would try to take the ukraine capital of kyiv again using these mercenary fighters. also of concern to nato member poland who moved thousands of troops to the border with belarus over concern that these wagner fighters could be used to put pressure on that nato border. and so we have not yet heard from anyone else in the wagner organization, we haven't heard from the kremlin, haven't heard from russian president putin, despite him making the public appearance and not yet heard from the president of belarus,

lukashenko. we can expect a level of coordination when we get statements from the world leaders but the question remains what happens to the thousands of wagner fighters in belarus and training there, and also the thousands of wagner fighters in places like syria and subsaharan africa at the coordination of the russian government on behalf of prigozhin taking orders still from russian president putin. nothing of note yet, but again president putin remains at the concert in southern russia. >> john: we got a comment from adrian watts saying we have seen the reports, if confirmed, no one should be surprised. the disastrous war in ukraine led to a private army marching on moscow and now it would seem to this. sandra. >> sandra: ok, thank you so much. trey, we'll get back to you as we learn more. alex hogan is joining us live from london with a closer look

at who prigozhin is, and the wagner group influence around the world. alex. >> we have been talking a lot about what this could mean if again the human remains of 62-year-old yevgeny prigozhin are found on the plane that now has crashed into this field. but it is important to look at who this person was, and of course the loyalty when we are looking at the wagner group, this fierce loyalty so many of the soldiers that have gone to battle in contested territories in ukraine, the loyalty they feel for them, bringing them to belarus has created real tensions with other ukraine countries. not only poland but lithuania and latvia all increased security along their border with belarus, farmers in poland who live not far from the parts of territories say that they can hear the training every single day, worrying about whether or not russia's war in ukraine will

spill out to other territories and we can also look at the large number of wagner troops that are in places in africa, like libya, mali and sudan, and the growing presence and impact in places like niger, just last month when the military in niger overthrew the government ousting the president and despite the fact that leaders from around the world have condemned this coup and in africa the neighboring countries have also imposed sanctions on niger, we have seen a growing impact of russian supporters and growing calls for people in niger calling specifically for the wagner group. so, that presence of these russian mercenaries felt and approached from many of the people in niger who are supporting this military coup. and why that's important to note when we are looking at potentially the death of this leader who was so loved by some of these soldiers is what that

impact will be, what the feeling will be, the reverberation this could have for some of the soldiers who have gone into battle without blinking an eye, standing behind this 62-year-old who had been leading the wagner group and again, this is someone who did have the support of russian president vladimir putin for years who was very beloved and trusted, considered someone who was a hero in russia that fall from grace at least in putin's eyes in the last two months and did not even see him appearing reportedly in a video the last several days talking about the growing presence within russia in africa and that there would be more freedom, something that we again have heard from people within some of these african countries. we are seeing growing tensions and this continued support. so, will sandra and john, will this mean that that support is still felt, that wagner troops continue and remain to be there with potentially a new leader,

or could this create even more tension that we have seen on russian soil about people who are not happy with the state of the war in ukraine, and who are going to continue to push back. john, sandra. >> sandra: alex hogan on that for us, thank you. john. >> john: sandra, let's bring in congressman james comer, chairman of the house oversight committee, in milwaukee for tonight's debate. how do you see this, congressman? i mean, looks like this is vladimir putin saying if there were any question as to who is in charge, those questions have been answered. >> yeah, obviously this is not a good development. i don't think anyone should be surprised. we have seen a history and pattern here with respect to putin's enemies meeting untimely deaths. we don't know what caused this, we still don't know exactly whether or not he was on the plane. i assume he was on the plane. and we don't know what type of effect this will have. this could backfire against putin, if putin were somehow responsible for this, odds that

he were were very high, but i think there's a lot of questions. unfortunately here in the united states we have a, what i consider a weak leader. we have more foreign policy uncertainty today than at any time in recent memory. so, this is when leadership matters and i hope that we can somehow regain our standing as the world leader and someone who can come in and the united states be that shining symbol of democracy and the adult at the table that tries to bring countries together instead of further divide and create more tension. >> sandra: congressman, good to have you here, live from milwaukee with us. and the white house did reach out to the nsc for comment as john mentioned, attributed to an nsc spokesperson, we have seen the reports, if concerned, no one should be surprised. disastrous war in ukraine led to a private army marching on moscow and now this. considering this if this is all

true and this show from vladimir putin, what do you believe would be a very important timely and relevant question to those gop candidates on the stage tonight? >> well, we are going to have to go in a different direction. i've been very outspoken in the fact that i believe we have lost our reputation on the world stage. we have a leader that unfortunately falls asleep during meetings, he's not the leader that we expect to have in the united states, the one that is setting policy direction, the one that leads by example. and we need a new leader in the white house and tonight we are going to see a glimpse of some potential new leaders, and i hope that they can talk about their vision for what role the united states plays in ukraine and as well as russia moving forward. i honestly don't know what our role is right now from the biden

perspective, other than continuing to send ukraine a blank check. >> john: one of the things that will probably come up in the conversation is the investigation into hunter biden as we pivot away from the news out of russia. and i know that you and the chairman of the ways and means and judiciary committees sent a letter to michael horowitz, the inspector general at the department of justice about thep investigation that he was supposed to be conducting into the whistleblower allegations that there were some not so much above board actions that were taking place at the doj in terms of the hunter biden investigation. you quoted from his response to you, he said "we, this is him at the inspector general's office, are mindful of the potential limitation on the oig jurisdiction which requires my office to refer to doj office of profession nat responsibility allegations of misconduct involving department attorneys, investigators or law enforcement personnel where the allegations relate to the exercise of the authority of an attorney to

investigate, litigate or provide legal advice." you said in that letter that you believe that the doj is intentionally limiting horowitz' jurisdiction from the investigation into the allegations of a cover-up. explain. >> well, i have confidence in michael horowitz, he's been an inspector general that i think is worthy of the title. he's someone that i believe has been independent, some of my republican colleagues may disagree, but as far as i'm concerned as chairman of the house oversight committee we work with i.g.s across the government and he's one of the better igs. this is his opportunity to do the right thing. the reason we fund inspector general is to determine whether or not there's waste, fraud, abuse or mismanagement in the federal government from a nonpolitical standpoint. and i don't think anyone could argue that this department of justice hasn't displayed a two tier system of justice, have not

turned a blind eye to corruption at the highest levels in the biden administration and we are leading the biden corruption investigation but there is also another investigation that sprung up and that's the cover-up of the biden corruption and the department of justice is at the center of that cover-up. michael horowitz is someone that should be able to get all the information that we need to determine whether or not this department of justice is in fact guilty of obstructing a credible investigation, not just by the house oversight committee but the internal revenue as we heard from the whistleblowers, and the fbi whistleblowers who gave senator grassley and myself the 1023 form that alleged joe biden was involved in a bribery scheme. >> john: we'll follow that and see if horowitz has jurisdiction or turn it over to the other folks at the doj. congressman, thanks for joining us. appreciate it. hope you enjoy the debate tonight. >> thank you. >> sandra: all right.

thank you very much, to the congressman. as we mentioned top of the hour, dnc holding a press briefing ahead of tonight's big gop primary debate. brand-new information from the dnc on the biden campaign when we return.

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continue to watch the unfolding situation in the garfield neighborhood of pittsburgh. it's about four miles northeast of downtown. just on the eastern side of that big 300 acre allegany cemetery. police and swat teams, the fbi, the dea, other federal agencies, all trying to figure out what to do with a gunman who has barricaded himself inside a home after sheriff's deputies served him with an eviction notice this morning and he began opening fire. hundreds of rounds of ammunition have been fired off, and we heard not too long ago when a

sheriff's deputy was giving an update, shots continuing to ring out, apparently that gunman trying to shootout of the sky a police drone that's assessing the situation. there has not been any overt developments in the last little while as the standoff continues. fbi hostage negotiators, or at least people who deal with these situations are probably trying to make contact with this gunman, but we'll keep following the situation and if something pops we will bring it to you right away. sandra. >> president biden -- >> we have not had a conversation about that at all. i'm sure one day we will. but it's not today and i don't have any news on that but we are going to continue to do, continue to govern because vice president harris and president biden have a job to do and they take it serious when we have news on that, we'll let you know. >> sandra: that is indeed the

news, john, to not commit the president to debating in the general election. that's the news from the dnc presser a few minutes ago. >> john: was somebody expecting senator richmond to say anything different, we heard biden has no reason to debate, his closest rival, robert kennedy, jr. in the high teens in terms of support, maybe the low teens according to some polls and marianne williamson is below double digits. they think there's no reason for him to debate. they believe he is the de facto nominee and he may well be, the only person that might take him out of the running are people like himself, as people like jason chaffetz think they might. >> sandra: and a gaffe in the room, crossed by, a reference to president harris in the dnc room. we'll try to get more information on that and bring

that to our viewers. now this. >> john: and don't forget, right there on the form, the big picture of martha and bret as the debate gets underway tonight. 9:00 tonight on the fox news channel. right to griff jenkins who has some news for us. griff. >> hey, john. you can bet that crime, the issue of it, not just what we are watching in pittsburgh but the country, i suspect candidates will attack democratic-run cities like d.c., violent crime is up nearly 40% compared to last year. we spoke to d.c. voter and anti-crime advocate who explained to me why crime is her top issue this election cycle. take a listen. >> i have three sons, all of them have been victims of gun violence in d.c. my oldest son, i was actually with him when he was shot. i'm scared to stop at a stop sign or stoplight for fear somebody is going to block me off and carjack me, you know, or

shoot me. i'm sure i'm not the only one that feels like this. >> she's not. the latest polls, gun tied immigration 11% for the second most important issue, crime in general also making a list at 6%. now, what asia, a firearms instructed wants in her instructed leaders are actions on things like ghost guns and stiffer can consequences for violent crime offenders. >> a fair number of carjackings in our neighborhood. >> gun deaths on the metro lately. >> i'm more cautious, not out as late anymore or always looking behind me and things like that, unfortunately. >> her story is so tra dick, in addition to her three sons shot, her husband was stabbed to death while trying to help an elderly man while being assaulted.

john. >> john: we expect that would be a big topic of conversation on the debate stage. thank you. >> sandra: one topic sure to come up is abortion, voters curious to see where republican candidates stand on the contentious issue. mark meredith has a preview from washington. before i hand it off to you, i just mentioned that gaffe of the democratic party, the chair of the dem party of wisconsin, ben wickler, call vice president harris president harris and smiling at his mistake in the dnc presser, and this just in, the president, first lady and members of their family are taking a pilates class right now, followed by a spin class. this is out of the white house. so we are watching for any of that, no pictures as of now, but to you on the issue of the evening. >> sandra, good afternoon. the president and his family still out enjoying their vacation and now he's doing an exercise class and the white house was asked if he was going

to watch the debate, they kind of laughed off the answers, time will tell. democrats say they hope the issue of abortion comes up. dnc launched new ads to make the issue front and center. digital ads are hard to miss and the tag line says get real jack, i'm bringing roe back. pro choice groups are eager to get the candidates on the record to map out where they stands on abortion, planned parenthood launching new ads. group says make no mistake no matter how the gop candidates try to spin the extreme anti-abortion views on the stage. they all support a national abortion ban. the republican candidates, most are eager to label themselves as pro life. it's something we have heard a lot on the stump just over the last few weeks. >> pro life americans will have a champion for life in the oval office. >> i am pro life, i've always been pro life, i ran as being pro life. >> so, unborn life is life. that is what i stand for. i don't wish to apologize for my

perspective. i'm -- >> nikki haley, the only female on the stage, spoke out before on the issue, supported legislation outlawing abortion after 20 weeks and urging republicans to tread carefully when it comes to restrictions. >> save as many babies and help as many moms as possible. that is my goal. to do that at the federal level the next president must find national consensus. >> abortion certainly is still a hot button issue, the latest polls show most americans do not believe it's the biggest issue facing the country today. sandra. >> sandra: mark meredith, thank you, mark. >> i don't want to compare difficulties but we have a little sense, jill and i, what it's like to lose a home. almost lost my wife, my 67 corvette, and my cat.

>> john: president biden's attempt to connect with the victims of the maui wildfire is falling flat, some call him out for exaggerating the truth and making it all about him instead of them. coinc coincidents -- could incidents like this cost him upcoming elections? amera shutter sfx] introducing ned's plaque psoriasis. [camera shutter sfx] he thinks his flaky, red patches are all people see. otezla is the #1 prescribed pill to treat plaque psoriasis. [ned?] it can help you get clearer skin and reduce itching and flaking. with no routine blood tests required. doctors have been prescribing it for nearly a decade. otezla is also approved to treat psoriatic arthritis. don't use otezla if you're allergic to it. serious allergic reactions can happen. otezla may cause severe

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the fact he's in the spin room is probably an indication he's planning to be at the debate tonight and on the stage. hoping to get a look to see if he's wearing a cast or a boot or anything like that. but sandra, he does seem to be having a little bit of difficulty there, being ambulatory and see how that might affect him tonight. >> sandra: and whether or not he will be in the jeans tonight. >> john: they may have to cut the jeans off to get suit pants on. >> sandra: 67 years old, apparently a high grade achilles tear, requires crutches, we hope he can debate tonight. >> john: achilles tendon injuries, they are nasty. >> sandra: yeah. now this. >> 15 years ago i was in washington doing "meet the

press," it was a sunny sunday. and lightning struck at home on a little lake that's outside of our home, not a lake, a big pond. and hit a wire and came up underneath our home into the heating ducts, the air-conditioning duct. to make a long story short, almost lost my wife, my '67 corvette and my cat. >> sandra: president biden facing backlash for that, retelling a 15-year-old story about a minor fire that he experienced in his home during that speech to wildfire survivors. it's something he's known for and apparent attempt to connect with victims of natural disasters. >> we did not lose our whole home but lightning struck and lost an awful lot of it, about 15 years ago. >> went up underneath and set fire the internal part of my house.

>> have not had a house burn down with my wife in it, she got out safely, god willing, but having a significant portion of it burned. >> sandra: ari fleischer, man, a lot of people are talking about that. it went viral on social media, many people were offended, it has developed into a major controversy. i want to say he went back on vacation, lake tahoe, nevada, and we are just getting word a few moments ago, ari, the president, first lady and hunter biden's son, beau, taking a pilates class followed by a spin class. update from the first family, ari. >> i just cant imagine you live on maui, more than 100 people are known dead, 1,000 people, including children missing, which means there is likely more than 1,000 people dead. and you hear the president of the united states talk about he almost lost his cat? and this is after he said no

comment? look, i lived through katrina in the sense that i watched the politics of katrina. and the pounding that george w. bush, my former boss, got over katrina was amazing. and now the mainstream media is praising joe biden for being empathetic leader? you know, the people see through this, sandra, but i just cannot imagine what it would be like on hawaii and have the president of the united states fail to connect. >> john: i remember the heat that president bush took over katrina and the photograph of him flying over the scene in air force one as he looked out the window, and after september 11th he stood up on top of that fire truck and said i hear you, the world hears you and the people who knocked down the towers will hear from you will an all of us. he was listening to the people in new york at that time, and the weird thing, i cannot understand about biden. he goes to maui and instead of saying i can't imagine what you've gone through, this is the worst thing that i've seen and the worst thing that could have

possibly happened to your lives and so many people still missing and we are going to do everything we can to put your lives back on track as best we can, you know, you'll never get over what happened but at some point we may all learn to live with it. but instead of that, he tells a story and makes it all about him. you know, when you are thinking about presidential image and mike dever was great at this with ronald reagan, you listen to people, empathize by listening to their stories and say you care. you don't tell a story about your house and your cat. i mean -- who is advising this guy? >> you know, on september 14, 2001, i accompanied president burb to the jacob javits center and met with family members whose loved ones were missing three days after the attack, and said tell me about your son, tell me about your daughter, what does she do. what are the favorite

activities. he let them describe who they were and it made them feel better. it was all about them. george bush didn't talk about his suffering and what he may have gone through, it was all about the bereaved and helping describe their loved ones. that's what joe biden should have done in hawaii. nonsense of him being empathetic because he suffered through tragedy is wrong headed, and the same thing when he went to dover air force base to greet the families, the 13 service members killed in afghanistan and he talked about beau instead of them. he's not empathetic, he's a narcissist, and in this case, narcissist that fabricates. >> sandra: and families of the fallen soldiers from the chaotic afghanistan withdrawal saying those moments, one mother talking about -- talking to the

president and how he shared how he could sympathize because he lost his son and she said he said this within 24 hours of me losing my son. his son had cancer. you could be by his side. that was not the case of the family and the lack of ability to connect with her she talked about and it really moved all of us. but still, this is the media defending the president. listen. >> he said the right things in many cases, when he came to the microphone to give his statements. >> i think it's how he connects with people. i think it's his way of connecting. and telling a personal story. >> you would think that everybody in maui was angry with joe biden, that joe biden was having a siesta -- i know it's going to shock you, it was all garbage. >> sandra: nothing to see here, says the media, ari. >> and in addition, joe biden fell asleep that evening at an event in memory of those who had lost their lives. look, the mainstream media has such a huge problem in america.

we no longer have the media down the middle, just tell me what happened and i'll tell you what it means. they put their pro biden spin on it. and it's a huge part of where america has changed and why we have become so polarized. and back to katrina. the press pounded george bush, they should have pounded joe biden. >> john: and one other moment he was meeting a first responder and the cadaver dog he was working with sifting through the ashes trying to find the remains of the people, and the dogs have to wear booties, and the ground is hot and they might step on something sharp and biden's comment was "that's some hot ground, man." you come out of a place that has been torched in the most horrible fashion and you make a joke about that's some hot ground, man? >> and he chuckled to himself when he was describing the 67

corvette and his cat. chuckling about the light hearted touch when people are going through the worst thing you can imagine. death and destruction. he's out of touch. i would say it's attributable to his age but he's been doing it for decades, and the mainstream media looks the other way, they don't call him the fabricator but he gets away with it. and that's the problem with the country, the president that the scrutiny on the president of the united states is minimal from abc, nbc, cbs, the "new york times" or cnn, and i don't want to hear the polarizer is donald trump, the polarizer is the media itself and the way they divide the american people by taking sides. >> sandra: good to have you on on all of that for us, appreciate it. thank you. >> thank you. >> john: all right, some developments in pittsburgh, apparently police may be trying to breach the building in which this gunman has barricaded himself. let's go to rich, he has the

latest. he keeps firing at the door, the window or whatever at drones flying. is that why they are moving in on this home? >> right, and why they have evacuated the entire neighborhood, asked people to shelter-in-place if they have not been able to get to them. we have seen police and authorities preparing the armored vehicle, unclear what the timing or approach would be, but this is the situation that has gone on for several hours, authorities asked people to shelter-in-place because of reports of gunfire. as you mentioned, this person was also shooting at drones that police had put up, tried putting up additional drones after that. the allegany county sheriff's office said deputies went to the address to serve an eviction notice and that sheriffs say it turned violent after the shooting began. neighbors are saying for about 45 minutes police were going back and forth with this person, trying to get in the house, trying to get them to open the

door, they said they were coming in and that's when the shooting started and here is where we are now, john. >> john: rich, thank you for the update, appreciate it. sandra, that was a news-filled two hours, and we have a lot more coming up tonight. >> sandra: and for continuing coverage, watch here on the fox news channel, set your dvr, never miss "america reports." i'm sandra smith. >> john: i'm john roberts. "the story" starts right now. >> martha: we're in downtown milwaukee. you can see the press tents come up as the reporters come to town to cover this event. when you think of milwaukee, you think of beer and cheese and the packers and the milwaukee bucks. right now, in this town, it's all about politics and it's all about tonight where bret baier and i will co-moderate the first republican primary debate.