♪ ♪ howard: kevin mccarthy under pressure from the right green lights an impeachment inquiry against president biden. the white house scolds the media about doing their job birdies crediting the allegations,es and hunter biden indicted on gun charges. i'm howard kurtz. we've got two presidential candidates joining "mediabuzz" today to weigh in on these and other subject, ron desantis and mike pence. we begin with my sit-down with the florida governor. ron desantis, welcome.

>> how you doing? howard: i'm doing well. governor, do you support house republicans launching an impeachment inquiry into president biden based on the level of evidence uncovered so far? >> yeah. the corruption is really, really troubling. when you have that many millions of dollars flowing into his family's coffers, they are totally within their right to do it. i mean, look, we can sit here and talk about the proper role of the impeachment, but they opened this on trump based on a phone call to ukraine. there's way more evidence for this one, and they've got a lot of in the story work to do, but -- investigatory work to do, but i think they should pursue it. howard: do you think the indictment of hunter biden on gun charges the other day shows there isn't a two-tiered justice system because it's the same biden justice department bringing the charges? >> the problem with that is there's really been no serious inquiry into his business dealings where he's making millions of dollars on the burisma board. he just happened to walk into that because he's so great? we know there's a lot of serious problems with the china and the ukraine stuff, and that's never

really been pursued. so i guess the question is, yes, it's a felony charge, but that potentially is going to be much less grave than system of the corruption that he would be looking at. so if their doing that as a way to divert attention away from the more serious stuff, then it of course doesn't show we have a two tier, it confirms there's a two tier. howard: that remains to be seen. you told the cbs that the presidency is not a job for somebody who's 80 years old. duds e -- does joe biden have the mental and physical acuity to do the job in. >> no. i think father time isn't defeated. this is just the nature of it. this is something that's a very grueling job. it requires energy, it requires leadership, and he's not in a position where he's able to discharge that. howard: do you see a decline in his performance from over the yearsesome. >> i think so. if you look back even when he first started running for president and look at some of the interviews compared to now,

you can see the effect of father time. that's just the nature of it. howard: you have been talking to house conservatives, you used to be one. who want deeper spending cut, and you've indicated that that you have their back, you support that. but since the democratic senate won't go along, with you -- are you willing to tolerate a government shutdown that can cause a lot of pain and disruption? >> here's what i would recommend they do, they campaigned on certain things. our voters did give them the house, so do what you say you're going stood. the senate can do what they're going to do. i understand there can be negotiations after that. but what i don't think they should do is say, oh, well, you know, the senate won't accept what we're going to do, so we're not going to do what we believe in. do what a you believe in, because the country's going inis solvent, and they've got to show a better way. and even if they don't ultimately succeed on everything, at least they put the flag in the ground and showed after 2024 if we have unified republican control, we have a path to get this nation back to fiscal sanity. and part of it is the dollars and cents because the debt, i

mean, you've covered it, how much the debt has gone up, and it is under both parties. howard: yeah, you've been very consistent in saying that. 100%. but you also have the issue of voters and many of these congressmen have talked about the abuse of power by federal agencies like the fbi surveilling moms going to school board meetings or having memos saying catholics are potential terrorists, weaponizing the justice department. if that's the case to just fund it without any type of reining in, you're basically continuing the abuses you're talking about. howard: let's turn to your background. i haven't heard you talk all that much about serving in the military and iraq, a little bit more lately, or playing baseball at yale or raising three kids 6 and under. would it help to broaden your biography and let people be more familiar with that rather than just be a governor in a nice suit? >> well, look, my view is it's not about me. i want to talk about -- howard: your name's going to be on the ballot. >> no, i know.

people do know i'm a good governor, most of these republican voters give me credit for that, but they don't necessarily know a lot. for example, with the military, i was a blue collar kid growing up, my parents were blue collar, and i had to earn my way through school and all this stuff. but i put myself in a position where i could have made a lot of money. then september 11th happened, and i raised my hand to join and serve in our military. i was, like, you know what? our country's in conflict, i believe in this country, and i'll have time to do the other stuff. but this is manager, so i volunteered to serve in iraq. i served in gitmo, different places, but i think the fact that -- because people want to know why are you running for president. okay, you'll talk about your policies, but what's really driving you? is it about you or is it about -- and i think what i can show is my whole life has been about service above with self. i've made choices to serve where i could have made choices that would have been more beneficial to me financially or what not, and the iraq example's a good thing. i mean, i remember hitting the deck in fallujah like pitch

black at a night, helicopter lands, i have my boots on the sand for the first time, and i thought to myself, i know there's a lot of diverse ways people get into the military, but i'm the road less traveled here being a yale baseball captain, hard saturday law, ending up in -- harvard law, ending up in flew that, that's what you do. howard: that's ooh quite a transition. you've heard, he's too stiff, oh, he doesn't have the charisma. in retrospect, would it have been better to project the armer image? >> system of -- warmer image. i just won the greatest election in florida history, we have a lot of strong support and people appreciate that, for sure. i think that we do do things where i'm out there the shaking hands a because with, remember, the media said, oh, he's a florida guy, he's not going to go to iowa. meanwhile, i've done more retail man anybody -- howard: has your wife suggested -- >> here's what i'd say though, and i think the people that know

me know there's a bogus narrative. but there ises a seriousness the what we face in this country right now. and when there are people out there that are, say, running fentanyl into our country that are killing our people, i'm going to be very tough with them. i'm not going to be nice to them. we have people trying to sexualize the curriculum in our elementary schools, i'm not going to be nice to them. you need to know that you have the strength to actually do the job and to stand for people and pa fight for them because they know it's not easy. here's the thing that i think is different there. you have the bully pulpit. what happened to me in florida was i had a lot of hostile too, a little bit different than a presidential, and the reason why i was able to do so well is i just spoke directly to people in their communities. whatever they said, the media had to play what i was saying at a press conference. so i think it's the same thing here. our people know this country has become unmoored from the truth. there's so much nonsense that circulates on social media. i think you've covered how some of the institutional press has gotten more into narrative building rather than just stick

to the facts, so so they know that. when you're speaking truth to them and they feel that, it is the very powerful because there's so much deceit out there. but as the president, i'm out there delivering the message. and we will be out there, and we will be able to deliver that unfiltered. so we'll deal with the media. howard: you say unfiltered, but would you hold regular news concerns? sit-down interviews? joe biden has drawn a lot of criticism for limiting press access. >> we absolutely do. we're on the campaign trail doing sit-down interviews, i prefer them to be live because some organizations try to slice you. yeah, exactly. yeah, we'll do that, and i think that's an important way to deliver your message. howard: your superpac, which i know is independent, says it put out all the information that a led to a whole bunch of negative stories about vivek ramaswamy. is that an embarrassing disclosure? >> as you mow, it's an incompetent entity -- howard: they raise a lot of money for you. >> i can tell you this, there's a lot of people that have been

dumping stuff on many me for a long time. a lot of these are tiki tack stuff, but that's unfortunately the way the political process works out. howard: vladimir putin agrees with donald trump that he's being persecute by a rival for political reasons. [laughter] do you worry that if donald trump gets back in the white house, that he'll stop u.s. aid to ukraine and let putin keep the territory he's already captured? >> look, donald -- the idea that trump is some type of lackey for putin, that's just false. he had a very, very strong russia policy. he actually provided a lot of support, defensive support for ukraine. and so i think the idea that somehow he wants to be buddy-buddy with putin, i know there's circles that say that, but i don't really see that as being the case. i think he's been strong. howard: you say that trump can't be elected, he's a deal-breaker for voters. former president, as the whole world knows, is battling four indictments. why is it that you haven't correctly criticized him in any of those casesesome? >> well, so put that aside, you know, what i've said before the

cases, like, i never thought he should have run. once he left office, i thought he should have taken relate for the good things he did but recognize he was knot the best way to go forward and win finish to win and unite the country behind our perk first policies. howard: why? >> i think you look at the voters, he's definitely got a base, but there are voters who are gettable for republicans who don't like what biden's doing, they disapprove of all this stuff, but they just won't do the rump. we saw that in the midterms, unfortunately. i thought we were going to have a red wave because there's inflation, all these problems, don't you have to vote the other way? when it came down to it, the democrats had a playbook, and as much as i hate to admit it, it was effective at allowing them to maintain control of the senate and keeping our house gains very modest. i think the legal cases just practically will suck the oxygen out of the room if he's the nominee, and the question is, is do we want the election framed on biden's failures and our

vision to reverse the country's decline? if we can do that, we will win. if the election's all about documents at mar-a-lago, january 6th, all that stuff, that's going to let biden hang out in his basement, and i think he's going to get away with it again it's t not going to be about his record. that puts us in a push worse position to win. that's just practically, regardless of what you think of those and i've been very critical of fbi and doj is. i was just in new york city. alvin bragg basically running for office saying i'm going to get trump and then he does this ridiculous case, people see that is and they know that's not the way the justice system should work. howard: trump also said in a recent interview if he's back in the white house, he would have the justice department prosecute his political opponent. isn't that the same axis lee bake -- accusation he's making against the biden white house? >> he ran in 2016 saying he was going to appoint a special prosecutor for hillary's e-mails, you remember that. and a lot of us thought that was appropriate because they didn't do a author reinvestigation --

thorough e investigation. two weeks later he said, ah, forget it. he didn't follow through on that promise. and it's not about going after your opponents. what we need to do is joust have a single -- just have a single standard of justice in this country. howard: as president, would you pledge to treat the justice department as an independent agency when it comes to criminal investigations? >> it's not independent from accountability. howard: sure. >> i am not going to say to the justice department, that howie kurtz guy, go find -- no, that's not appropriate. but if they are not pursuing blm rioters, i have every right to bring the attorney general in and say you need to get on this stuff. this is serious stuff. if you have the fbi that's, you know, pursuing parents at school board meetings, you have every right to say fire those agents who did that. so we're going to hold them accountable. we're not going to use it, you know, to go after people for no reason, but we are going to set the priorities that they're going to do. and for my priorities, it's not going to to be ticky-tack

political stuff, it's going to be the things that that matter to keep this country stay. -- safe. howard: ron desantis, thanks for joining us. when we come back, how the media are handling the house taking a step toward impeaching joe biden. ♪ ♪ charlotte! charl! every day can be extraordinary with rich, creamy, delicious fage total yogurt. ♪ we're not writers, but we help you shape your financial story. ♪ we're not an airline, but our network connects global businesses across nearly 160 markets.

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duckduckgo comes with a built-n engine like google, but it's pi and doesn't spy on your searchs and duckduckgo lets you browse like chrome, but it blocks cooi and creepy ads that follow youa from google and other companie. and there's no catch. it's fre. we make money from ads, but they don't follow you aroud join the millions of people taking back their privacy by downloading duckduckgo on all your devices today. howard: when kevin mccarthy ordered an impeachment probe of president biden without a house vote, reaction from the pundits was surprisingly mixed. >> these are allegations of abuse of power, obstruction and corruption. that's why today the i am directing our house committee to open a formal impeachment inquiry into president joe biden. >> after all of that evidence, how can you say biden wasn't for sale and he didn't know he was

for sale? you can't. how can you say joe biden didn't benefit when he did and when his whole family did? you can't. >> it's a faction of his own party, a vocal minority in the house, pushing to use a very serious mechanism to impeach the sitting president despite a failure so far to find any evidence actualliling g him to a crime. >> mccarthy looked like he was recording a hostage video. i'm concerned that in an election year, this is dragged out -- >> yeah. >> -- but, ultimately, no real conclusion is dawn -- drawn, and it mud byes up the waters. >> the drip, drip, drip of information is significant, and many in the news media really haven't covered it seriously or at all. >> there's still no line drawn to joe biden, and everything you hear is about these vagaries about biden crime family, a culture of corruption, but they're never specific about it because they don't have it. howard: joining us now to analyze the coverage, jim geraghty, senior political sport national review, and in phoenix,

lucy caldwell. jim, many journalists describing the move as a way to mollify the hard-right members of his caucus who are also pushing for spending cuts that could lead to a government shutdown in a couple of weeks s. is that what's going on here? >> it certainly looks that way. the idea that these are disconnected and this isn't an a effort to take a bucket of water and throw it on a fire on his right wing. because the irony, and guy benson kind of alluded to it, the governments had a steady drip, drip, drip of actions by houstoner biden that were embarrassing, maybe not criminal but certainly looked sordid, getting checks from foreign businessmen, it all looked really bad. howard: it smells. >> sooner or later, house republicans have to vote on it. there are probably about 18 of them in districts biden won. maybe by the time this is all said and done it's such a smoking gun, but at this point it looks like a tough vote. howard: okay. lucy, mccarthy told breitbart

that this shouldn't be done by one man, that you need a vote of the people's house, as he put it. he also ripped nancy pelosi back in 2019 for unilaterally doing this to trump, although she got a vote weeks later isn't so what changed? >> i think that one of the things that we see about kevin mccarthy in addition to the fact that in 2023 kevin mccarthy might want to get reawaited with 2019 kevin mccarthy is he is a person who threaded a tight needle to the speakership. matt gaits coming out and saying you have defied the terms of the deal we made for you to become speaker, and we are ready to vacate the speakership. we'll bring it to the floor. and so kevin mccarthy is operating in this really, really tough spot where he's trying to please his base, he's trying to please members of the freedom caucus, he's trying to please the matt gaetzs and lauren boeberts of the world, of all people, and yet he also has to think about the next cycle.

right now he is being pulled in a direction where he is really giving in to the base and really giving in to, as you say, the breitbarts of the world. this isn't going to end well for kevin mccarthy. i think that he knows that. we saw that in # 2019 ahead of the first trump impeachment. that caused republican voters to warm around trump, and the same thing is going to happen here. this is not going to end well for the republicans, the drip, drip was probably much better. howard: well, we'll see about that. and also, you know, whether there the actually is a move to vacate the office of speaker, make kevin mccarthy fight for his job. but at the same time, it doesn't seem to have had much effect on the spending cut battle that could lead e to that shutdown. jim, we're hearing over and over again, almost like a mantra from people at cnn and elsewhere, that there is no evidence, no evidence, no evidence of wrongdoing by joe biden. but that doesn't mean that the then-vice president didn't dial into conference calls with hunter biden and his business associates or clients or attend a couple of lunches.

so the no evidence thing is pretty broad. >> yeah. my favorite comment was from one hunter biden's business partners who said it was the illusion of access as if it's a magic trick. it looks like access but it's not. if you don't think there's access to joe biden, call the white house switchboard and ask to speak to joe joe biden. most people can't get hit -- him on the phone, hunter biden's business partners could. howard: there is no evidence joe biden took a dime in connection with hunter biden's unethical and sleazily muckraking overseas. shouldn't journalists be more explicit when they say there's no evidence, no evidence of this but maybe some evidence of that? >> i think it's challenging because the hunter biden situation is admittedly very, very messy, and i do think that institutional democrats and, of course, some members of the left-wing side of the media aisle have not been open enough about the fact that the hunter

biden stuff does not look good. there's no question that a normal son of a businessman or even someone relatively powerful could not have gone out and obtained the kind of contracts that hunter biden did from burisma. he was making ridiculous sums of money. it is ridiculous to say there was no nepotism involved. of course there was. hunter biden is a messy person. that's part of why he's currently under indictment from the biden justice department. but, of course, this doesn't mean -- i think it's a reflection of joe biden's e team not just driving into this and saying, yes, there's a lot that's bad here, but there was no wrongdoing by joe biden. and i think that the continued sidestepping they're actually hurting themselves and not putting it to bed in the way they otherwise could. howard: i think that's a fair point. ahead, my sit-down with former vp mike pence, but up next, the white house is telling journalists in writing to expose the republicans' impeachment

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howard: the white house responded to the impeachment inquiry by house republicans with a long statement lecturing the bleed to, quote, do your job. >> these are the things that the press needs to cover. it can't just be about, oh, speaker mccarthy is threatening an impeachment or mtg said this today. howard: jim, where does the white house get off telling the press to ramp up scrutiny and do your job exposing republican lies? >> i was going to to say, my first thought is a democratic president telling the media you guys is have to write critically of republicans, it's like telling your dog to pee on the fire hydrant, it's going to happen. [laughter] you really don't have to worry -- howard: they sent this to cbs, abc, fox, ap. >> criticism was going to happen no matter what they said, but they felt the need to go out, here are your marching orders. we want to make it look like you're doing this in response to

our orders. howard: lucy, does it sound to you like white house officials are giving the press marching orders on this matter? >> i don't think it's a good look. i would slightly different from what jim said. i don't think that the republicans don't get the kind of coverage that jim is talking about. i think that the press covers republicans the way they do because republicans are mostly behaving ridiculously and in ways that are quite shocking. of course there's a left-wing bent to the media, to national media with just like there is a left-wing bent to everyone who lives in the -- corridor. but i think that the bigger issue here is that the white house seems to believe that if they write a memo to national media outlets, that that is somehow going to inform the narrative. they're operating in an old media paradigm of top-down coverage when, in fact, the stories that are driving the day that they don't like are coming from, you know, disparate media outlets that are increasingly new and different. howard: right. let me get jim back in here.

unnamed white house official told from politico they were relieved mccarthy 's announcement wasn't covered on wall to wall cable. true, but couldn't that reflect the media mindset that, oh, this thing's not a big deal and there's no evidence against joe biden? >> appearing on cable, i will refrain from saying, viewers at home, there's nothing more important than what you're watching now. a lot of people get their news from social media, from youtube, so they may or may not hear all that much about it, and i don't know how much those voters' reaction will determine the success or failure of an impeople ifment effort. howard: lucy, when nancy pelosi ordered the first impeachment probe of president trump on ukraine, wasn't that covered wall to wall on cable? >> yeah, of course. it's very notable to have an impeachment. and kevin mccarthy himself at that time talked about the serious long-term implications of this and the idea that this could mean there'd be future impeachments every time someone didn't like a political rival

are. so it is healthy and good to cover impeachment and, in fact, i would tell the white house it's going to be good for democrats because most americans are not going to get with the program over an i impeachment of the white house's presidency or the president's kind of awkward, out of it son. howard: that is the question. all right, next on "mediabuzz," we heard from ron desantis earlier, now presidential candidate mike pence weighs in right after this. ♪

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howard: mike pence has been increasingly aggressive in going after his former boss, donald trump, as well as joe biden. here's my sit-down with the former vice president. mike pence, welcome. if enter thank you so much, howie. good to see you. >> reporter: same here. mr. vice president, you said in iowa this week that an impeachment inquiry should never start without a vote of the full house, but kevin mccarthy said, well, you'll defer to his judgment. why didn't you stick to your original position? >> i am sticking to my original position. i would have preferred they take a house vote, and they may yet. you remember when nancy pelosi unilaterally started an inquiry, ultimately a couple months later they had a house vote. i do want to commend, i want to commend house republicans for the yeoman's work they've done. present company accepted, awful lot of people in the media have ignored, you know, the ethical cloud around the biden administration. we go back to the waning days of the 2020 the campaign and how

many in national media and online literally suppressed the story in "the new york post" about hunter biden -- howard: and his laptop. >> so i think house republicans have done important work holding the administration accountable, bringing facts forward to the public, and i welcome the initiation of the inquiry. howard: many in the media have praised you for refusing to block the electoral college certification on january 6th. and yet most moderate voters are upset with you because they believe when trump says the election was stolen and that they wanted you to stop it. hasn't that put you in a political box making both sides unhappy? >> well, i would tell you i know that's a little bit of the framing of many in the national media use to describe the republican electorate today. frankly, over the last couple of years i've been deeply moved how many people have made a point to come up to me in airports and grocery stores is and just thank me for the stand that we took. i think people know whatever they thought of the election -- howard: yeah.

>> -- and there were irregularities. we took them to court, we challenged them, but i think more and more republicans have come to realize that by god's grace i kept my oath to the constitution that day. now, we've got to restore public confidence in election integrity. howard: here's what i don't get, you're constantly praising the 4-year conservative record of the trump-pence administration. >> yes, right. howard: now you turn around and say you're the real conservative in the race and donald trump is offering, this is a quote, a siren song of populism unmoored from true conservativism. how is that possible? did he morph into something else? >> when donald trump ran for president in 2061, he promised to -- 206, he promised to govern as a conservative. for four years we governed as conservatives. we rebuilt our military, we stood strong the on the world stage, we exercised american leadership. we stood with our allies, stood up to our enemies. our military took down the isis caliphate. we stood with israel as never before -- howard: a long list.

>> here at home we cut taxes, we rolled back regulations, and we appointed conservatives to our courts at every level including three of the justices that sent roe v. wade to the ash heap of history. we governed as conservatives. but i will tell you what votersers deserve to know is that donald trump makes no such promise today. he, he's backing away from america as leader of the free world, talking the language of ace peezment in the face of russian aggression in eastern europe and the war raging in ukraine. with regard to entitle element -- entitlements, howie, donald trump's position is identical to joe biden's. neither one of them want to talk about -- howard: medicare and social security. >> well, reforming programs that are driving our national debt and really threaten the vitality of our economy in the future. and on the subject of the right to life, look, we were the most pro-life administration in history, but since we left office donald trump has actually blamed election losses in 20 the 2 on overturning roe v. w5eud,

and he's, he, like others, is trying to relegate the question of abortion to states only. howard: you've called for a federal abortion ban, 15 weeks would be a good starting point, you say, 15 weeks of pregnancy. given how strongly you feel as a matter of faith, is that a big compromise for you rather than something stricter? >> well, let me take issue with a premise in your question, if i can -- howard: go ahead. >> donald trump actually blamed losses in the midterm elections on us overturning roe v. wade. when i look at the midterm elections, it was candidates that were focused on the future did very well. candidates who were focused on the past, and many candidates he endorsed were relitigating the last election did not farewell. including in states we should have is are done well. i, honestly, i take a different view of 2022 the than my former running a mate does, and i think the facts speak speak or speak for themselves. when the supreme court overturned roe v. wade, they

returned the question of abortion not just to the states, but to the states and the american people. the american people elect presidents, they elect senators, they elect congressmen, and i believe even as we recognize that most of the progress for us as pro-lifers is going to happen in states around the country and i strongly support those effortt donald trump's agenda is driven largely by personal grievances. what do you mean by that? >> i just think if we focus this election on the past in 2024, we're going to miss a a historic opportunity not just to win the white house, but to expand the majority in the house and win back the senate, win statehouses around the country. look, the american people are fed up. joe biden's policies have weakened this country at home and abroad. and i think by complaining about the last election or complaining about people that don't see that last presidential election in the same way he did or the constitution same way, we're going to, we're going to be

focused in on each other when we should be focused outward, carrying our agenda everywhere to the american people. and i think it's the pathway to victory. howard: and just briefly, you suggested earlier that the media are being rather soft in the coverage of president biden, perhaps protective of him. do you think that's deliberatesome. >> i do. -- deliberate? >> i do. howard: you don't get the same kind of coverage? [laughter] >> look, you know, what we lived through for the four years of the trump-pence administration, two and a half years of the russia hoax, you know, it was extraordinary. and then the president being impeached for a phone call. it was a relentless effort not just by the democrats. you know, they can be the, they can be the opposition party out there, but for their allies in the media to chase after every single unsubstantiated allegation all the while spending most of the last two years looking the other way about very real -- think about this, i was vice president of the united states, howie. howard: i remember.

>> and the idea that a sitting vice president, joe biden's family accepted some $20 the million which is a hard fact, it's not really disputed during the time he was vice president and that they were by one account selling the joe biden brand to foreign nationals and foreign concern rook, the american people -- look, the american people deserve the facts. howard: vice president pence, thank you very much for joining us. after the break, more liberal commentators who once backed joe biden now say he's too old to run again. ♪ mom! mom! every day can be extraordinary with rich, creamy, delicious fage total yogurt. - bye, bye cough. - later chest congestion. hello 12 hours of relief. 12 hours!! not coughing?

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you get your confidence back for good. a clearchoice day changes every day. schedule a free consultation. howard: just as the house is launching an a impeachment inquiry into joe biden, the media seized on every misstep and suggests he may be too old for the job. >> he may have have a -- a game plan, i don't know about you, but i'm going to go to bed. howard: that moment at the g20, in fairness, came after the president had pulled an all-nighter. meanwhile, more pundits are are declaring that the 80-year-old biden should pass on a is second term. >> part of it is whether joe biden is the best person to carry this legacy forward. howard: and we're back with the panel. jim geraghty, the piece by david ignatius we saw there, is that kind of a tipping points in the

media debate over biden's age? it used to be verboten. >> we've seen is similar comments from the atlantic, "the new york times" editorial board stepped up and said biden needed to be more open about his issues. the fact of this came after the vietnam trip. the dog-face pony soldier, biden has these awkward outbursts which make people -- and his voice kind of meanders, and you kind of wonder, is he still the sharp isest knife in the craw? -- sharpest knife in the drawer? howard: lucy, let me play a sound bite, and i'll ask a question on the other side. >> democrats off the air will say joe biden's too old, why is he running in on the air, they won't say that. howard: that admission by joe scarborough, interesting. others who have backed biden before, andrew sullivan and joe kline, say he looks and feels old and frail, and these are people who are on his side is.

what do you make of that? >> well, i think that it's a tough situation because you have not only biden who is now going to be in his 800s, but you also -- 80s, but you also have the presumptive republican nominee, tear going to collective by be going on 160 years old at the time of of the 2024 election, that's not a good place to be for american voters. and i say this as an a exs-republican who is also not a democrat, right? but a person who strongly hopes that trump is defeated the next cycle, i do think a problem here is that democrats in the last four years and earlier have become so convinced that they must do anything they can do to save this country from a second trump presidency which i support that they have tunnel vision. the only lane that they could pursue is in a joe biden reelect, and that has caused them to act in non-competitive ways in this democratic primary cycle and really chill the ability for any younger democrats to come forward and push forward a message that is compelling. and that is not a sustainable

past. that is a kick the can down the road kind of approach. howard: right. the media's conventional wisdom was donald trump's the easiest candidate to beat, now not so much. and donald trump who said in an interview that biden is not too old, just grossly incompetent. to be meeting or talking privately with marjorie taylor greene and other house gop leaders and pushing impeachment. does that make this look more political? >> oh, it definitely does. i'm noter the i by shocked that a potential republican nominee in his mid 70s is looking at 81 is, which biden turns in about two months, oh, it's not that would because it's not that much older than trump is. it's easier for a ron desantis type to say, as he put it so gently, father time -- howard: yes, that was interesting. >> this old man creeping up behind joe biden or something. [laughter] howard: and u.s. r, lucy, trump

says his indictments are unfair, and obviously a big of the republican party agrees with that. but in pushing to impeach biden, obviously, this is just the first step by house speaker kevin mccarthy, is there a contradiction there? >> yeah, of course there's a contradiction. but this is donald trump, so what else is new? donald trump himself also is a walking gaffe factory, so i don't think he's the person we should be relying upon to assess what joe biden's fitness is. [laughter] period. howard: trump did say on "meet the press" that it was very unlikely that he would pardon himself if he wins back the white house. he said, well, i was told -- he didn't say by who -- i could do it last time, but i decided it would look terrible. is that a flat no? >> no, it's definitely not a flat no. i think one big question is we're in legal and constitutional uncharted waters here. i don't know if the founding fathers ever really said what if we have a president who gets

indicted four times, gets convicted a bunch of times, can he pardon himself? i suspect in philadelphia they weren't thinking about that too much. howard: right. >> i think we'd all rather prefer not to see that scenario come forward buzz it does kind of elevate the president into this emperor-like figure. maybe there's some scenario where we don't have to find out. howard: right. the lawyers can argue about that, but it is the interesting trump got asked that question. and, you know, the more broader question is all of the time he has to spend in courtrooms really hurt his campaign because so far it hasn't really hurt his campaign. lucy. >> yeah, that's absolutely right. i think that trump could easily win the republican nomination from behind bars if the timeline were different. he has a 50-point lead over ron desantis. donald trump is going to be the republican nominee. understand that. we can talk about the other, the other people running in the republican primary, donald trump is the presumptive republican

nominee for president already. and we know from the base that they don't care. that doesn't mean that he will farewell in a general election. polls are very early, there's still a lot of undecided voters who aren't going to want to elect a president who's behind bars, i think. howard: in fairness to the other candidates, we still have a long way to go and, obviously, it's a state by state pri process. louis by, jim, thanks for sticking with us. still to come, the president's son is indicted on gun charges. we'll look at the coverage of hunter biden. ♪ what if all i do isn't enough? or what if i can do diabetes differently? (vo) now you can with once-weekly mounjaro. mounjaro helps your body... ...regulate blood sugar... ...and mounjaro... ...can help decrease how much food you eat. 3 out of 4 people reached an a1c of less than 7%.

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correspondent. these charges, and hunter biden could face more serious tax charges, is it more than a minor distraction for the president especially with his son facing 10 or more years in prison in. >> yeah, i think it's a headache, you know? it's re-election time. he wants to be focused on his potential opponent, former president trump, and his legal issues. now there are legal issues close to him. it's not him directly, but it's his son, is and so the it's a headache because people can say, well, you know, looks kind of lady over there too. people can just hear a headline and go, oh, there's problems on both sides. howard: right. hunter's lawyer, abby lowell, says this is bowing to political pressure from maga, but it was the decision by the biden justice department. if special counsel david weiss doesn't make a deal and hunter biden's on trial in the middle of a campaign, how much of a political problem is that for the president even though, as you say is, unlike hunter's foreign influence peddling, this has nothing to do with joe biden? >> right. i guess the wildcard is what

hunter biden would say under oath on the stand, where questioning could go and that sort of thing and could it veer off in another direction that maybe the president would not want it to go and so it could be a little awkward if it goes in that direction and is not just based on these forms that he filled out where he apparently lied. howard: yeah. we were talking earlier about former president trump, whether he would pardon himself, and the white house says joe biden would not pardon his son, nor should he. >> correct. howard: but you have this extraordinary situation where the justice department is prosecuting donald trump, the most likely go gop nominee, and the incumbent president's son. can does that a take the charget that doj is only out to get republicans? >> republicans are upset because they think this was kind of a joke, the forms. they want to go into the biden family bank records, they want to dig into whether the president was receiving some money from some of hunter's oversea business dealings, so they want to go much deeper.

this was kind of a clean thing you could charge where people could go, okay, you lied on a form, you could be charged -- howard: except most first-time offenders don't go to jail for that, and republicans could say, yeah, they picked the one thing that doesn't have any involvement by president biden. >> exactly right. so they're saying, you know, it was kind of convenient and do, you know, do they think republicans are stupid, basically to say, like, oh, charges. look, equal justice under the law. so a lot of republicans are saying, not so fast. they want to see more about the financial dealings of the biden family. howard: right. the investigation continues, so we'll see whether there are more charges against hunter biden. mike emmanuel, thanks very much for being here. that's it for this edition of "mediabuzz." rolling stone's founder has been kicked off the board of the rock and roll hall of fame foundation for a new york times interview in which he said female musicians is and those of color aren't as articulate as the white guys. he deserved it for those to

offensive remarks. winter has apologized. you can subscribe to my podcast, media buzz meter. we riff on the buzziest five stories every weekday. hope to see you there, and hope to see you here next sunday, you know the time, with the only media analysis show on national television. ♪ hi, i'm norma, and i lost 53 pounds on golo. when i started golo, i expected to plateau like i had so many other times. i was surprised that sticking to the golo plan and taking release, the weight just kept coming off. (soft music)

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creamy, delicious fage total yogurt. . arthel: it we began with a manhunt underway after an officer is killed in the line of duty. los angeles county sheriff's office says a deputy was shot in the head while digging in his squad car. investigators believe he was targeted and a deliberate attack just outside a station in california paired hello and welcome to "fox news live" i am arthel neville hi eric. twenty-four hello arthel hello everyone i'm eric shawn for the same attack occurred in the 1980s in new york city shocking the city. los angeles the sheriff said the