>> how do you see it right

now, congressman? >> well, neil, what i see right now is the senate's not willing to work with the house of representatives. i'm a no on the cr because i can't, in my right mind, allow this administration to destroy this country. we sent those appropriation bills over to chuck schumer. i highly recommend you get your house in order in the senate, pass those bills and get joe to sign it and 73% of this discretionary spending will be taken care of. 73% of the government will remain open. chuck, go to work. neil: there's a lot of finger pointing back and forth and many say the house should get to work. the meeting, this one started about an hour and a half ago, kevin mccarthy wanted to call a member conference. it's just letting out right now. i don't know what's coming of it. aisha hasney on capitol hill.

>> the meeting just let out and a whole bunch of congressmen and women coming out and many of them looking, very, very frustrated and marjorie taylor greene came out and told reporters, it's the same garbage, the same b-s over and over and what she told us in that meeting there were a bunch of different cr, a bunch of short-term spending bills that were being phofloated. and here is what could happen in the next few hours here. we might actually see a cr, a continuing resolution on the floor sometime today. we could see a vote scheduled for that in the next couple of minutes here. the idea here is to put up a short-term spending bill about 45 days long that includes disaster aid, but would not include ukraine funding and also, would not include border security. now, this would come up under a suspension rule and what that basically means, neil, you

don't need to go through the rules committee. what you need is a two-thirds vote and that means you need democrats. the g.o.p. essentially daring democrats to vote this down and we'll see if the holdouts basically decide they're not going to vote on this. i can tell you a lot of folks came out frustrated and fed up with the entire situation and how they got here in the first place. listen to this. >> we have one job and by law, we have one job, and that is to pass 12 appropriations and one budget and yet, here we are. well, here is what will happen we do a 14-day. we'll be back. everybody will go home and come back on the 12th or 13th day and start working on it. and that's what this is about. sitting around wringing of hands and how yelling at the folks that want to keep their word to their constituents. that's not the way.

>> neil, we'll toss it back to you because i believe the speaker is speaking right now. neil: indeed he is. great reporting. now to the speaker. >> keeping the government open while we continue to do our work to end the wasteful spending and the wokism and most important, secure our border. >> did you get any assurances from any the republican holdouts that they'll support this. >> look, i've tried for eight months, it took me a long time to finally get the appropriation bills on the floor, they delayed. i tried yesterday with the most conservative stop gap bill that i could find to stop at the border and i couldn't get 200 republicans on. this is on suspension, it takes a higher threshold. i'm asking the republicans and democrats alike, put your partisanship away, and focus on the american public. how can you in good conscience think of the men and women who volunteer to risk their lives

to defend us to say they can't be paid, while we work out our differences? that is unfair. i cannot do that to our men and women in uniform so we're going to keep government open while we work our differences out and secure our borders. >> do you worry about they'll try to remove you? >> you know what? if somebody wants to remove because i want to be the adult in the room, go ahead and try. but i think this country's too important and i will stand with our military, i'll stand with our border agents. i'll stand with those that have to get their medicine from government as well. i think that's too important. we have done 70-- more than 70% of our job where the senate has done nothing. the senate can't get something to the floor in time. we can. and now what? if i have to risk my job for standing up for the american public, i will do that. >> and the house, have you talked to jeffries or any democrats whether they will support this. >> i talked to hakeem yesterday, i talked to a number of democrats yesterday, they

kept, from a standpoint, didn't want -- they want to do ukraine as well. i think that can have at a different day. i've watched the senate, they said let's wait for the senate. the senate cannot bring us a bill before shutdown. they cannot get-- government will shut down if we wait. i do not want that on our watch. i think this country's too important. i know the house has done their work. the senate has not. the senate hasn't passed one appropriation bill and all of you have written these great raving stories how great the appropriation process is going in the senate. they've tried all month. they said they could get something going here. they can't get anything to us. so now what? i'll put the american people first. we will finish our job. i will keep the house in to keep working on our appropriation bills, get it done during that time. but the senate better get their work done and the border has got to get secure. >> if this bill goes down, is there a plan b? >> well, if this bill goes down, tell me why do people want to have government shut down.

that will be on the individuals. it wouldn't just be because of the democrats. you need democrats and republicans to vote for this bill. >> that's right, that's right. so if democrats don't want-- if democrats want to shut the government down they'd vote against this bill. tell me what to argue if we're putting a stop gap measure with no politics in it that says we will continue funding government exactly as it is right now for 45 days while we finish our job. the only thing it will do differently, those who have suffered through a flood, through a fire and others, where the disaster money is not there, we'll make sure the disaster money is there so they don't get punished. we'll look at our troops in the eye to say, yes, you don't have to worry about how you're going to make your rent. we're going to finish our job. we're going to secure our borders. we're going to look at the border agents that come back bloody securing our country and say, we don't want you in doing your job, worrying about whether you're going to be able to make your car payment. we're going to do our job. we're going to be adults in the room, and we're going to keep

government open while we solve this problem. yes, and as we go through these preparation bills, the most conservative that ever passed. you don't realize what we've achieved. the f-stop bill the first time passed in 16 years. we're achieving things. i do not want to stop our momentum and that's the way we'll be able to shut down the border. and if we don't get this, then the border is further open. the president wants to ignore that, we're not going to let him. he's the president of the united states, what has he done to keep the government open. we'll put something on the floor to pay our troops and if he wants to lobby against it and tell democrats to vote go ens against it, then it's on him. neil: unless there's a miracle here, a government shutdown

seems to be on. we're hearing now that they're still going to try to get the vote on what they call a clean cr, continuing resolution, that will include disaster aid, but no ukraine aid, and that's going to be an uphill climb to put it mildly. you heard the speaker make a reference so he's been talking to hakeem jeffries, the democratic leader, on this process going forward, seems to think it's a waste of time to depend on the senate for a hail mary, it wouldn't be in time to avoid a shutdown. if we get a shutdown, that happens at midnight tonight. all federal employees deemed nonessential would be furloughed. and they could get the back pay when it opens. and the essential workers will receive back pay once the shut down ends as well. those on social security, medicaid, medicare, the payments will still be distributed, shutdown or not. snap benefits, food or related berths would be continued to be

distributed during this time although it gets murky how much longer they can do that and most national parks will be closed remainder accessible to the public again with reduced services and other daily, more familiar ways to communicate or hear from the federal government, the u.s. postal service, for example, will operate as former. federal agencies and the like will shut down in a domino-like fashion. i could get to you the perceived rollout for that. they're hoping to avoid that right now. senator mike braun joins us from the state of indiana. haven't talked to you for a while. >> good to be on. neil: you're not keen on this measure, right? >> well, for me, it's mostly the process. you've got to remember, this should have started october 1st of 2022. it is so broken in both the house and the senate. the senate's probably worse than the house in terms of

budgets, neil. when i was a state legislator we did budgets, we did a biannium bill, talked to the stake holders. there's no process here, we haven't done a budget we've adhered to since the late '90s. i listened to kevin that sounds about as good a way for us to get-- to avoid a shutdown, depends is your priority to keep the government going. i wish we had a bill out there, i'm for a no government shutdown bill. this is a bill that would eliminate this drama at the end of the bill. and no budget, no paycheck then you'd see things getting done on time and i'll end with this in terms of the malaise we've got. when i got here five years ago, the default was borrow money. it was a trillion dollars a year. it's now a trillion dollars

every six months. regardless what you believe the federal government should do, it's not good for the institution, it's terrible for america, and we are in a place that's disgusting. i think the most people out there watching it. neil: senator, i know your vantage point is the united states senate, but there has been this push now among more conservative members and those, for example, down on the freedom caucus, what have you. they've had it with kevin mccarthy to your point the outset of this, we knew this date was coming, so did he. he could have prepared better and he did not. what do you think of that and that he should go? >> well, i think when you're bragging about what we've done in the senate, we haven't gotten a bill really passed, okay. he's gotten six or seven appropriation bills done. so, he's improved, but the whole system is broken. why are we doing this at the tail end of your fiscal year? and since i've been here we generally don't get this resolved into the new fiscal

year, nothing to brag about in either chamber. the american public is going to have to start wondering who are we sending here? do we need term limits? do we need a balanced budget or statute amendment? i think that's the only thing that keeps this place in order. no other place functions like it. neil: you know, many republicans, maybe more moderate, i don't know how you want to classify them, senator, have been showing their frustration with the process. a couple of days ago i had mike lawler on, the republican new yorker, flipped that 17th district seat and you keep running lunatics, you're going to be in this position. this is not republican conservativism, this is stupidity. what do you think of that? >> some of that extreme drama i don't think is fruitful either, but what are you going to do to change a system that looks like it doesn't want to change itself? sooner or later, we'll have to do something.

we're borrowing 30 cents of every dollar we spend here. i don't think that's emphasized enough because whenever i talk to people back in indiana if they're for something, i said, i'll say, would you be for it if you knew we were borrowing 100% of the money? they're fab fabergasted. they're shocked. and try to add up the interest when you put 1% of 33 trillion. interest rates have gone up 5%. that will crowd out all domestic and defense spending that's discretionary and that's right around the corner. so something's got to give soon. neil: and you're right to say that, and your business background is coming in and 1 1/2 trillion to that debt pie to your point. and i'm curious what you make-- i apologize i know you're on the senate side.

matt gaetz might be entertaining a run for governor of florida year after next. he's been down on caving on these issues and that they don't-- on the moderate side they don't like that message and they think it's divisive and hurtful to the party. what do you think? >> i think that the margin that kevin has to deal with, that's probably not fair. that's as slim as it can be, that's a rowdy crew over there, anyway. if he intends to come back and run for governor, i think the approach for most states, they're looking for problems to be solved. they're not looking for this kind of drama. and i can tell you in the three years i spent in our state legislature, we get things done. we've got a balanced budget amendment. we always have a surplus. it gives us the ability to get a good return on investment and live within our means. probably focused on that, not the drama that we have here. and sooner or later, the american public is going to have to put two and two

together, what we've got is not working. something's got to change and the people that you need to blame are the ones that have been running the show here on both sides of the aisle. neil: all right, senator. thank you very much for taking the time. meek braun of indiana. >> you bet. neil: mike braun of indiana. and i want to go another mike who sits on the senate banking committee. senator rounds, what do you think? >> well, good morning. we're here on a saturday and we're trying to fix a mess that has got less than an about 12 hours to go before we shut down government. it's not the place that any of us want to be in. senate and the house have different approaches. nonetheless, the senate right now is going to be taking a look at a continuing resolution that would at least sustain government for the next 45 days. the house has yet to determine quite what they want to do. we like a lot of the ideas that they've come up with in terms of reducing some of the spending that they've been after for the full year, but in

the senate we also recognize that the republicans don't control the floor. so we've got to work with democrats and find a process forward and still fund the government for the next year. it's not been an easy process so far, but we've just got to continue working at it. neil: if i heard kevin mccarthy correctly, senator, time is not on even the senate's side if you came to agreement on something, getting that vote on approval, there's not enough time before the government would for even a limited time shut through. >> yeah, if you use what is-- unless you get unanimous consent to bring it to the floor, you would have a problem. but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't at least take the next steps because if we don't start now, it's just that much longer. we have been basically watching and trying to figure out what would be the best for the speaker to be able to get his team together. we actually held up on part of what we have in the senate, hoping that it would give the house an opportunity to

actually put together a package. he hasn't been able to get that done yet and so, the next best is to at least get something from the senate to the house for them to at least consider. this he may not like it, you know, it's a bipartisan effort and includes some things that they don't like, but at least then they'd be able to come back, perhaps conference with it or bring it to the floor and see if they can come up with a total vote that would pass it with two-thirds. neil: senator, could you vote for something that doesn't include aid to ukraine? >> on a short-term basis i could. look, supporting the effort in ukraine is long-term critical to our national interest, but if it means doing a shorter term in order for us to get the regular appropriations done, yeah, i could. the question is, is can the house actually pass one either way. so, hopefully right now they'll try again. we'll give them an opportunity to see if they can put together a continuing resolution that allows both the house and the

senate to get through all 12 appropriation bills and if that's the case, then we've at least succeeded in moving forward appropriately. if they can't get that done, we will have the bill coming from the senate. it does include ukraine funding for about 45 days and the house then would have to consider what they want to do with it. either way, i think we've got to do our best to try to continue the operations for government during this time in which we have those continued negotiations. neil: the reason why i mention the ukrainian thing, it's even divisive among fellow republicans, sir, who say that we don't want to throw good money after bad. i think a third, half of the presidential candidates on the republican side aren't too keen on it, saying it's got to stop. where are you on this? does it worry you? >> look, first, we don't want ukraine to fall and we most certainly want to stop putin in his tracks right now. i think where the administration has fallen down is that they have not laid out

a plan to us either in a classified setting or otherwise, as to what the end result should be. how do we get to an end result that we're all satisfied we're moving in the right direction to go? we know what putin wants. we know what president zelenskyy wants. but what we haven't heard is based on the best information laid out by some of the best and brightest minds in our department of defense, what sh you had be our plan to get to an accomplished goal that we should agree on. i think that's why one of the reasons why so many of my colleagues have got real concerns about continued funding. we've addressed that in classified discussions, suggesting strongly to the administration that they layout for us, the end result and where we want to go. not with date certains, that's not a good idea, but with goals to be met. na, i think, is the long-term approach to appropriately stopping putin, our long-term interest in sending a message to xi jinping that we'll stand together and our allies that we

can be counted on. neil: got it. thank you very much. >> thank you. neil: mike rounds. bob, you're a lot closer and aware and on top of these things than he'll ever be, but as a professional prompter reader, here is my thoughts on this. we're going to shut down. i just don't know for how long. >> i agree with you, neil. and i think this could be a long one. they are nowhere right now. kevin mccarthy, it's all about leverage. interesting move to bring this bill to the floor. it's not going to, in all likelihood, get the votes in the house. the senate is not going to pass a bill by the deadline. so both the house and senate kind of struggling here. the senate, i think, has the advantage because senate republicans, and i know you've talked to a couple, they generally support ukraine aid, where house republicans generally do not and that's where the rub is. neil: you know where i'm curious, too, i've talked to moderate members, whatever that definition is these days, and they fear that this is looking

bad for republicans. whether that's a fair assessment or not, one saying we're grabbing defeat from the jaws of victory here. what did you make of that? >> listen, republicans, as mitch mcconnell has said, lose shutdown battles, know the all of them, but a lot of them. this is a real concern because not only house republicans want to retain their majority, a slim majority and senate republicans are nervous because this is the time that the map is republican friendly and defendants are on defense in the senate. will republicans again blow the chance to win the senate? that's what a lot of the republicans in the upper chamber are worried about. neil: obviously, markets are getting concern about this. they had a big selloff, a bad week, a bad month, a bad quarter. i'm not blaming all of this on all of that, but it's beginning to filter out way beyond washington. how is that being digested? >> listen, i don't think this looks good for anybody,

including president biden, who has let congress deal with this. biden and his staff are heavily involved in the debt limit showdown, this is a congressional animal, regardless who is to blame, it doesn't look good for any incumbent when government is not working and shut down for a long time. so that's, i think a problem for biden and then the choice for the white house, when are they going to get involved. they're headed for a shut down. what if they get a week, two weeks in, then will biden get more involved? we'll see. neil: still early going there. bob cusak, the hill editor and chief. we're going to get a read, prominent democrat, prominent republican and also, vivek r rama ramaswamy, no fan of this, and no fan at the border. my next guess coming up. you're watching cavuto live. on the things you need, you can get more of the things you want.

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>> the second we stop being a country of laws we give up everything this country was founded on so we have to secure the border. >> they have shut down our national sovereignty by allowing our border to be wide open. >> we have to secure the southern border of the united states of america. i know how to do it and we will do it again. >> the border plans they're talking about, we've got troops down at the border, flying helicopter missions from north dakota, san diego to the gulf coast. >> militarize the southern border. stop funding sanctuary cities and end foreign aid to mexico and central america. >> our laws are broken every day at the border and joe biden and his crew are doing nothing. >> and he should be working to close our southern border because it is unsafe. neil: all right, that was a prominent theme of this past week's debate on fox business

and simulcast on fox news. we'll talk to vivek ramaswamy in a few minutes, some of his ideas. casey stegall at eagle pass where the situation is getting worse not better. >> that's right, neil. in fact, breaking at this hour, cvp sources officially confirming to fox news, within the last 30 minutes or so, that a new record has been set with more than 260,000 migrant encounters recorded for the month of september. it's a staggering number and it is a new record. the highest monthly total ever recorded. this past december was the previous high when the number looked more around 252,000 and it's also higher than the august tally when the number was close to 233,000. cvp sources say they've encountered at least 50,000 of those migrants in the last week alone across the entire

southern border, a large majority in eagle pass, part of the del rio sector, already this morning, fox news cameras captured these images, not long ago, of a large group illegally crossing about 250 in size, mostly venezuelan, including some babies. meantime, as for the people who live in the border communities, the constant flow particularly in eagle pass, they say, is simply putting them in danger. >> we're the ones that are here. we're the ones that have to deal with illegals in our back yards. i live a block away from the river. my kids don't even know their neighbors because there's always illegals all over the streets. >> drugs also continue coming across. this past week agents in nogales, arizona, more than 611,000 fentanyl pills and 24 pounds of raw fentanyl powder

seized in two separate busts at the port of entry. later on in the rio grande valley, legislators will be meeting to discuss the border crisis and how to better manage it. but again, breaking at this hour, a new record has been set as we close out this fiscal year and we're facing a federal government shutdown, more than 260,000 migrant encounters at the southern border for month of september. again, neil, a staggering figure. back to you. neil: startling, just startling. thank you, my friend. casey stegall in eagle pass. with us the aforementioned vivek ramaswamy, surging in the polls and gets a lot of media attention. good to have you. first off on this border situation, you had talked about militarizing the border and the latest to date you've had a

very tough approach. and the mexicans smart at that, don't like the idea of the u.s. soldiers there. how do you respond to that? >> my response is the job of the u.s. president is to look after american citizens on american soil and the right answer, is we have a swiss cheese of a southern border. the wall has proven, neil, not to be enough. the cartels are building. cartel financed tunnels, trucks are able to drive underneath the wall. so i think it's perfectly legal, and justified. to use our military to seal our own border. i'm a pragmatist, neil. there's a pragmatic solution that nobody is talking about seriously, that can solve a significant part of this problem right now. what you have right now not enough people at the border, that's half the problem. the other half of the problem, enough of the people in the u.s. government who are staffing the southern border aren't doing the right things. what does that mean? if somebody comes in and says they want to seek asylum. an easy change. you have to provide proof of

actually imminent danger. none of these people who are temporarily being granted so-called asylum actually meet that description. certainly almost none of them. with that simple change, we can take care of 75% of this crisis right now, the short-term crisis, out of the gates. so i combine that level of praguetism with also going the distance to solve 100% problem by using the u.s. military to do it. and i'm different from the other candidates, these aren't slogans for me. these are deeply prague mitt particular approach and the combination. neil: as you know, the government shutdown, one of the measures they're going to try to take up and vote on is a clean bill that has no funding for the border for the time being and another part of that is no funding for ukraine. how do you feel about that? >> well, first they think i want to say about the government shutdown debate broadly, i think it's a fake

and artificial debate if we're being honest about it. what happens every time? the government comes back, all the employees get their back pay, and generally the government comes back bigger every time. even the 1.5 plus trillion dollars that the so-called, i would say, fiscal hawk conservatives are proposing is still the largest federal budget that we have ever had. so i think the right answer has to be thinking on the time scale of history, actually applaud the republicans who are holding a firm line on this. we have to drive deep cuts. so, rather than talking about a fake shutdown debate, i'd actually prefer proposing a real government shutdown of the administrative state. of those three letter agencies in washington d.c. the people who we never elected to run the government. who are the ones who are actually running the government. 75% head count reduction in the number of federal bureaucrats, rescind a majority of those unconstitutional federal regulations, and i think that unlocks the economy, neil, that

also unlocks prosperity in this country, zero-based budgeting. that's what i'm bringing to washington d.c. as the president. start with zero as the baseline and then ask exactly what's necessary, rather than starting with last year pass the assumed baseline. that will take a ceo in the white house. there isn't a state in the union that does it today. the federal government's never done it and that's exactly how i will run the federal government and that's exactly how we address our national debt while also doing it in a sane manner and i think that's how i'm going to lead as the next president. neil: you're a savvy businessman and you're right, many fortune 500 companies, most private companies, publicly owned or not, are of that mindset. they do use such budgeting, but the panic that that would ensue from a lot of people i talk to i think is such that you're almost asking for further downgrade in u.s. debt, that it will look like bedlam and that you're naive. what do you say? >> well, look, i respect different points of view, but i strongly disagree with this one.

the real crisis is right now. the status quo, of a $33 trillion and ballooning national debt against the back drop of stagnant economic growth so i've got very pragmatic solutions how to address this. drill, frack, burn coal, embrace nuclear energy. stop using taxpayer money to pay people more money to stay at home than to go to work. that already delivers economic growth while paying down some of that debt. stabilize the dollar, rescind these unconstitutional federal regulations that shackle the u.s. economy. that delivers economic growth. do that against the back drop of zero-based budgeting and that shouldn't result in down grades and panic. people aren't worried about the optics here they're worried about the substance. neil: and i'm sorry, i wasn't clear on that, they ahiring, we're all of a side announcing you're firing three quarters of federal workers, a major change with no guarantee that that would cast muster in the who us

or senate and that would cause confusion and a bond market tumult the world over. >> let me respond to that. first of all, 75% head count reduction by the end of my first term, we're going to be very pragmatic about this, reorganizing, take the fbi, 15,000 of the 35,000 who work there. will still have jobs, it won't be at the fbi, the u.s. marshals or the financial crimes enforcement with greater specialization. the way we're doing this, offered unprecedented detail. we will at once improve effectiveness and take out the dead weight cost and dead weight bureaucracy and i think that's what's going to be required if we really want to drive change. the thing i think is more frightening is the trajectory that we're on now. that's going to require a leader who is going to act with conviction and i don't need congress to enact those

changes, the constitution gives the executive branch of government and as the nation's chief executive i will. neil: while i have you here, you've got quite a bit at the debate you stated were you on tik tok now and once referred to it as digital fennel fentanyl and china to spy s and responded to nikki haley, that a dangerous signal and green light to continue china spying on us. what do you say? >> my concerns remain. to be crystal clear, i want to declare independence from chinese china. kids unt 16 should not be using addictive social media. the republican party talked about reaching out to young voters and there's one in the

party doing it, that's me. it's a little hypocritical for those other candidates virtual signaling and criticizing me on stage, even as their adult children are on tik tok today. we have to realize where the young voters are and meet them there and i'm inspiring young voters across the country and coming along in droves supporting me in my campaign. that's what's going to propel us to the white house and success in reviving our national soul and that's how we're going to be able to make the changes to make sure that young kids across the country are not using social media. neil: young voters are on social media, tik tok is among them. so why do something like that, why a 180 reversal on a position you were quite vehement on. >> i don't have a reversal, i don't have a 180 reversal. my position remains, young people should not be using algorithmic social media underage 16. and we're ever only going to drive the changes if we're winning elections and reaching

young voters. the democrats are three one for young voters. neil: but you called it digital fentanyl. >> and i regret where we are as a system. neil: but you still subscribe to that view. >> i do. neil: why the heck would you say nevertheless i'm going to reach young people there because on this digital fentanyl they're drawn to and like it and i might as well endorse it. >> i'll give you analogy, on energy, i still use energy and water to get to a place to drive that change. we have a broken system. we have super pacs i think have corrupted the democrat and republican party, but the reality we have a broken system and we have a broken game. we have to play within the system to win, that's how we drive change and you mark my words, a year from now, many republicans are going to be doing the same thing because their democrat competitors are eating our lunch and cleaning our clock with young people, most of those democrats doing really well reaching those

young voters through social media, including tik tok. do i think that young people should be using social media? no, not addictive social media, but we're not going to change that until we win. and i'm going to be the one who leads us there by reaching that next generation while staying consistent on our principles for what exactly we will accomplish when we get. . neil: finally, donald trump had looked at the debate, his popularity has gone up missing two debates. he wasn't impressed with the debate for some reason, but he said he wasn't impressed with any of you guys as potential running mates, he might look elsewhere. >> i wasn't particularly paying attention to that comment, but i said i'm in this to run for u.s. president and the reason i have consistently acknowledged that donald trump is an excellent president is that the right thing to do. >> he kept us out of war and our economy grew, but i'm in this to take our america first movement to the next level.

america first doesn't belong to trump or to me, it belongs to the people of this country and when we're guided by that good things are going to happen and i think that that's why we're going to lead this nation forward and i believe it will take somebody from a different generation whose best days in life are still ahead to see a country whose best days are still ahead and why we'll be successful. neil: vivek, always good to catch up with you. vivek ramaswamy, running for president of this country. and dan kildee. first off, how are you feeling? you dealt with cancer surgery and upfront about it and i apologize to be upfront right up top. how are you doing? >> thank you, i really appreciate that, neil. i'm doing a lot better, probably 90% back to normal. the surgery was tough, but i'm fortunate i caught it earlier and i'm on the mend so i really appreciate your thoughts. neil: what kind of cancer was

it, if i can push myself here? >> yeah, it was squamous cell carcinoma in my tonsil and in my neck. i lost my voice for a while and can you imagine that? it's tough in this line of work. neil: it is and you came through with flying colors. very happy to hear that congressman. let me get your sense of what you're returned to. you've been back to work for a while and i apologize for that. it looks like bedlam, and does look like another deal -- a shut down. what are the odds of getting back? >> it's frustrating. i think what we've seen is the consequence, what turns out to be a really bad deal that speaker mccarthy entered into with a handful of members of congress, giving them the tool to call a vote on his removal, has played into this crisis in

a really significant way. i think it's limited the speaker's ability, for example, to negotiate with reasonable democrats and come to a solution that is bipartisan. and neil, we know at the end of the day not just in the house, but i mean, the broad solution to this is going to be bipartisan. the senate is led by democrats. the house by republicans and of course, the president is a democrat. so by definition, it will be a bipartisan solution. my suggestion all along has been let's get to that conversation and it's been much more difficult, of course, for the speaker to do that because of the handcuffs that have been placed on him because of the change in the rules. neil: let me ask you a little about maybe some divisions within your fellow democrats, not concerning the budget process, sir, but more to do with their anxieties over the president and running for reelection and many say he's too old and now the talk that robert kennedy, jr. makes a

third party bid for the white house. does it worry you? >> no, i just look at the performance. we just look at the results. now, people may disagree with the president and i from time to time, neil, have disagreed with this president and expressed that very clearly, but it's really the result of the work that we should be focusing our attention on and i think by that standard, he's done what he said he would do. people can disagree with that. neil: well, polls show that americans don't agree. >> well, i mean, i understand that. polls, you know, polls can tell you lots of different things, but by point being that the president ought to be judged on his policies. i mean, we're going to have an election. people are going to be able to take a measure of the two candidates, certainly looks like it will be donald trump and president biden. they're going to take a measure of their performance in office and make a judgment. it will be a choice. it's not a referendum on one or the other, it's a choice between the two. neil: congressman, you look good, you sound good, but my

wife would welcome not being able to talk for a long time. good to talk to you again. >> thank you, neil. neil: all right. can kildee. we'll have more.

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>> this is a tale as old as time. politician takes action that makes money for his family and then he tries to conceal it. >> the majority sits completely empty handed with no evidence of any presidential wrongdoing. >> mr. donald trump, whose fingerprints are all over this hearing and this sham impeachment. >> trump lives rent-free in the democrats' heads. >> if you all think there's so much evidence. we're here, call the vote on impeachment. impeach him right now. >> this is the question, this is why we're here. what did joe biden know and when. neil: all right. both sides fixed in their views here. they kick off to an impeachment

enquery and republicans stress that's all this was, an inquiry, whether, you know, it evolved into impeachment itself, way too soon to say. some of the fireworks expected to bring there, witnesses and fact based witnesses didn't materialize, but again, we don't know where this process goes. john yu and the legal implications and former assistant attorney general. john yoo. what will come of this? >> this is the beginning after long process that will take months and almost certainly go to next year, smack dab in the middle of the election season. the day to think about what happened this week was the house committee just began the investigation. they decided to convert it from the investigation they've been having before which was into whether the justice department had properly investigated h hunter biden and decided to turn it into an impeachment inquiry. we're at the beginning. the way to think of it legally when you start an investigation

all you need is what we call probable cause. some reason to think a crime has been committed, that's what we've got now. there's a long road between that on one end and then a conviction before a jury and proof beyond a reasonable doubt. neil: all right, do you need to have more announcing it, and furthermore, leaving aside the fact that they didn't and maybe to your point, john, and i understand that, down the road it's all about getting that and taking it into the next state, but the notion so far the house hasn't voted on this to proceed. i don't know if you need that, but where do you go with that? >> neil, you put your finger on the major problem here for the house committee. they're proceeded just on speaker mccarthy's say-so. you may remember back with the first trump impeachment over ukraine, nancy pelosi did the same thing and the trump administration complained and said you can't have a house impeachment unless the house as a whole decides to start and

nancy pelosi eventually cured that error a few weeks later and did have a whole vote of the house. so i think speaker mccarthy has got to do the same thing, otherwise as you suggest, neil, there will be constitutional doubts between what happens now and when the house votes for sure, this could be an example if they want a witness like hunter biden, i refuse to show up. they have to go to the courts to get him to show up and this constitutional problem could give hunter biden and others a shield. neil: and in other words, you haven't voted on this, the legitimacy, probably the wrong word, but i'm not going to give you what you ask for because it's a charlton effort. >> exactly, exactly. neil: let me talk about the back drop, and kevin mccarthy, and he initiated this and

allowed this and some say cynically to get some of them off his back and satisfy them. now he's in a bit of a pickle, if he assumed that he would get support for the government lights on, that's not working. legally where do you think it's going? it's going down in defeat and a government shutdown legally on. from a legal perspective he's kind of in a corner here, isn't he? >> here is the problem and actually the committee here, mr. comer, who is the chairman, could save him if they take the investigation slowly. that's not what you saw this week. i remember we talked right after the hearing and you were disappointed, i was disappointed we didn't hear anything new, no new facts presented. and the committee has to be less aggressive and ambitious, take it step by step, like they had been doing before the impeachment inquiry, they looked at the wire transfers,

what did hunter biden do in exchange for the $25 million traced into biden accounts and then most important step they've got to be careful on, what did joe biden did, if anything, while he was vice-president which may be outside impeachment, but certainly, what has he done while he's president. was there any effort to interfere with the investigation boy the justice department into hunter biden. that's got to come last, not first and they've got to build all the facts that lead up to it. neil: got it. john, you ought to stick to this legal thing, you're very promising at it. so thank you again, my friend, for coming in on a saturday, no less. john yoo. >> my pleasure. neil: on capitol hill, going through the motion and yet another bill they're going to take up to try to keep the government from shutting down, but that looks all, but inevitable. unless there's a pass that succeeds here, but another measure, i can get into the weeds where it's going, but another attempt to avoid that and to try to make sure that

the government doesn't shut down at midnight tonight. bob kind enough to stay with us. bob, that looks like it's on and you can talk invariably who gets the blame. how is it sorting out in your head? >> the to earthquake is the finger pointing. and they're looking for a majority and pressing democrats to rote for something that would keep the government open. and the democrats feel they have the advantage that they're not going to do that. we're headed for a shutdown and this could break records how long it's going to last. this could change, but a shutdown is 99% likely. neil: you've talked about the prior ones, we've had 10 government shutdowns since 1977, more than three days. i think the one in 2019 went on a lot longer than that. it depends how long it goes, and that causes market jitters

and raises the degree of finger pointing. i don't think it's ever good for any politician, but of late, some of these have been shutdown on republicans. i don't know if that's fair. spending is spending, and leads where it is. how does it sort out that long, a month, two months. >> you never know, neil. right now, certainly, i think it is something that has to trouble republicans because the republican party is just not united on this senate and house republicans are just, have very different views on both spending levels and ukraine aid and that's a problem and democrats by and large are on the same page. so, after this bill goes down, the senate tomorrow is looking to vote on something that's going to be too late for a shutdown and i don't think that the house is going to move the senate bill. that's where the log jam is. neil: and you're right to point out the division certainly with republicans and democrats. and i did raise with congressman kildee, the

democrats, especially if rf kennedy makes a third party run. and what about their own teamwork issues. >> they have their issues. the fact that rfk, jr. was getting roughly 15% depending what polls shows that a lot of democrats are not satisfied with joe biden, a lot of independents, also, express concerns about his age, as do some democrats. so, this is a problem, i think, for both parties and having washington just be a chaotic mess is a problem for incumbents who usually win, but it can endanger them and voters do remember shutdowns, neil. watch the polls on this, maybe they will change, but republicans are a little nervous that again, they're going to get the blame. neil: let me ask you a little about where this battle on money stands. certainly among republicans who argue we've got to stop this. critics argue, this isn't the way to go about it, but no matter what happens, in all of

the shutdowns, we still are spending more than we did before the shutdown, i don't think there's going to be any different now. where does this go? >> well, i mean, if you look at big picture macro sense, listen, whether the debt limit showdown or this showdown, spending is going to be a problem. neither party certainly this cycle wants to touch entitlements, medicare, social security, and those are going bankrupt. that's the real spending battle. this is kind of a minor issue when you look at the math of it. the tough decisions actually have to do with medicare and social security. neil: you're right. i would question you calling it a minor issue. we have all sorts of graphics and music and drum beats to go with this. [laughter] >> i hear you. neil: i kid. and step back, kevin mccarthy will fight for what's right for the country even if it means the possibility of losing his

job. i'm paraphrasing there. and some want it to happen, all it takes is one to get the process rolling. do you think the process is going to get rolling no matter the outcome of this? >> i think we're going to see it, whether it's sooner instead of later. at many so point, there's going to have to be a bipartisan bill and that's going to get mccarthy in more trouble with his conservative flank. at the same time, if there is a vote, and this is unprecedented, maybe democrats would help mccarthy survive because they want to open up the government because we are headed for a shutdown and maybe for the first vote, anyway, democrats say, no, let's keep him in there for now, but then there could be another challenge to him. but this is going to be, basically you've got to fasten your seat belts for the next couple of weeks. neil: you and i mentioned this in the past, this would be a moot point about razor thin margin if republicans done better in the midterms. but it's rearing its head right

now, isn't it? >> absolutely. i expected a red wave. it didn't materialize. they won the house and that's significant. neil: right. >> because you have control of the gavel. but the majority is so small that you have five members, they band together and we've seen it over the last several weeks, and they've got the power to control the house floor. neil: we talk about that and the control they have for a time being. there's an outlier poll donald trump leading by 10 points, do you buy that he has that much support? >> i don't buy that much support, but do i think he has a small lead? i do. we've seen polls where biden has a small lead. i think trump right now has the momentum, he's had a good year. he's dominating the republican primary field, despite the ongoing court cases, and i think his decision to go to michigan and to go after desantis and others, it's

worked. will it continue to work? we'll see. i think he has a small lead. neil: in the georgia case, denied all federal removal requests. so obviously, that's still on and that's a drama still to play out. what do you think? >> yeah, this drama could hurt trump. it hasn't yet and certainly the indictments certainly have helped his fund raising and not hurt his poll numbers, maybe improved his poll numbers, but when you get into a lot of court appearances and then potentially conviction or convictions, that could be a game changer and that's what certainly trump is nervous about and republicans are nervous about. neil: still early. anything could happen as you always remind me, my friend. thanks as always on a weekend, no less. always good to have bob on that and those developments and we're looking at another chance to avoid a government shutdown, but it looks like it's on. fox news continues. >> the house is goin