have the helicopter up top, that's there to make sure again, they don't know this compound, they have a search warrant i assume it's for the whole location, they may have a consensual as well from the family that's not clear. he was apparently living with relatives so they would be in position to give the consensual. bottom line it's better to wait him out if you can. that can get very resource intensive, very tire some, and that's where you get the hostage negotiation people in place. a hostage negotiator doesn't necessarily have to be deployed just if there's a hostage. you can get somebody who's going to try to sweet talk them out of there. generally you're going to take all the time you need to get to a peaceful resolution. >> laura: at some point they know he is going to have to sleep and that will play into all this as well. paul, ted, randy, thank you all for being with us. that's it for us tonight. stay with fox all night long for the breaking coverage. jesse takes it from here. ♪ >> jesse: massive manhunt is

underway for a man who massacred over a dozen people in the state of maine. robert card, 40 years old, is the primary suspect in a mass shooting in lewiston maine that left 18 people dead, 13 injured. at this moment, authorities, including fbi swat teams, using robots and drones, have surrounded his home in bowdoin, maine. they're serving a search warrant. police helicopters are up above. loud bangs were reported from the house. we believe they may have been flash grenades deployed by law enforcement. police on bullhorns have been heard saying walk out with your hands up. >> you are under arrest, please come out of the house now. >> jesse: the police do not know if the suspect is inside the house, they have not made

contact with anybody inside yet t suspect is believed to be armed and dangerous and has been on the loose for the last 24 hours. last night around 7:00, gunfire rang out at a bowling alley. one eyewitness had to hide behind the bowling pins. >> out of nowhere he just came in and there was a loud pop. thought it was a balloon, i had my back turned toward the door and as soon as i turned and saw that it was not a balloon and he was holding a weapon i just booked it down the lane and i slid basically into where the pins are and climbed up into the machine and was on top of the machines for about ten minutes until the cops got there. >> jesse: 20 minutes later shots were fired at a bar and grill just four miles south. police believe the attack was premeditated. now, police don't have a motive, but the suspect's sister says he may have gone looking for an ex-girlfriend. robert card is well trained. he's an army reservist. he's extremely proficient in the use of firearms. he's an expert marksman. also an avid hunter and

fisherman. it's reported that he had a new hearing aid which caused him to hear voices in his head. he was picking up more audio in his hearing aid and apparently heard people talking trash about him. his brother-in-law says card would get mad when people didn't believe him. his family thought he was losing it. the shooter also threatened to shoot up his own military base. base commanders sent him to a psychiatric facility for two weeks for an evaluation. the facility was in west point, new york. and despite being involuntarily committed to a mental health institution, he still had access to firearms. roughly four hours after the shooting, his subaru hatchback was found 15 miles away parked by a dock. his boat is missing. records show the suspect owned a jet ski and a motorcycle. police have yet to establish a clear perimeter. maine is the most

heavily-forested state in the nation. and with a man of robert's background, he could have disappeared in the dark a dense terrain. joining me now is a regional swat commander who responded to the boston bombing. what does your first instinct here tell you? >> well, jesse, first, thanks for having me on and i'd just like to offer my thoughts and prayers to all the folks up there in maine with this horrible tragedy that's taken place. but, you know, it seems to me like it was probably pretty well planned. i think about that initial response of the officers being in there, being in their cruisers and being sent to the shots fired call and all the chaos and stress that they must have been going through when they showed up on scene there. initially, just like those heroes down in nashville, they're going to come in and immediately try to stop the threat as quickly as they can, but now you have a different

dynamic when the shooting stops and you can't identify who the suspect is and you have all of these people that need immediate emergency medical care. so you have to be able to -- i know here in massachusetts, we're starting to unveil a new rescue task force where the police are working in tandem with the fire department to offer that medical aid to anybody who's injured and get them out to the hospitals as quickly as possible. at the same time, the police have to provide a safety card around all the ems and fire personnel and protect everyone. so that must have been a very, very difficult situation to respond to. i know a few people that were there last night. they did -- they assured me they did a tremendous job, which i'm sure they all did. then it progresses into a prolonged situation, which i can tell you is definitely extremely draining on all the resources.

there's no doubt you have police officers that do not want to go home that have been there for over 24 hours with their sole intention of trying to capture this suspect and bring him to jail. and no doubt you have bosses ordering people to go home to get a couple hours of sleep and to come back in. you have a prolonged situation like this, it takes the toll on everyone. >> jesse: i bet it does. it's an absolutely chaotic scene. right now they have one of his properties surrounded, and they have not yet made contact with anybody inside the house. what's the protocol there? >> well, that would be, you know, as i listened to that, you know, they probably secured the search warrants, they're going to execute the search warrants on the various properties where they might have found him. certainly they would be in no rush to go into the home, especially if they thought he was by himself and barricaded. i know that our team down here, the metro swat team, that would be our last resort to go in and

put our folks in harm's way or put him in harm's way. >> jesse: so tell me what the step by step process is right there. so if you're serving a search warrant. you haven't made any contact yet with anybody inside the home. you've got the place surrounded and it's dark. how do you inch forward step by step and gain entry? what are the steps? >> right. the first thing you would do, i assume they have portable lighting. so they would put portable lighting all around the house and at one point they would tell all the different sides of the house where the swat operators are to hit the lights and illuminate the house. so that way now the officers are behind the light and they wouldn't be back-lit. the next step would be to get on the bull horn and say the police are here, we have a search warrant, we want you to come out. after a period of time where, if that dialogue looks like it's fruitless, you might take some sort of less lethal munition, potentially break out a window to try to get his attention, to tie to create some sort of dialogue. and, of course, i'm speeding

this up, this is going to be over the course of probably several hours. eventually they would, more than likely, breach the front door. i would assume they could send a robot, a drone, eventually a canine and if the canine goes in, there would have to be a team that would be associated with that. but i mean we're talking they could be three hours away from actually making entry into a home, because that would would be the safest manner to do that. >> jesse: got it. chris thanks so much and thanks so much for your patriotism. >> great thanks for having me. i appreciate it. >> jesse: let's bring in callahan walsh, the cohost of in pursuit. do you agree with that assessment? >> we are going to see this play out over the course of a i few hours. if law enforcement has that house surrounded, they're not going to rush in because that is the most dangerous part of the job is going through a doorway. we've seen way too many law enforcement officers who said their life in the line of duty knocking down a door so they're going to do everything they can to make sure that nobody on the

law enforcement side is harmed. so it is likely that this is going to take some time. if they truly believe he's in there they're going to do everything they can do bring him out safely especially for the law enforcement officers that are there on scene. >> jesse: is this diverting snippety do they have enough manpower if you have everybody descending on this one property and you have a large area here, i mean, they're going to have to deploy pretty much every resource possible. does that put anything else at risk? >> you know, my understanding is that local law enforcement, that jurisdiction, is only 17-members strong. >> jesse: oh, god. >> they've brought in a ton of other agencies from the u.s. marshals to the fbi to homeland security. you know, they have a lot of resources now to bear. so i'm sure that there's a good amount of resources pointed towards that home right now but they're not ruling anything out. the search for that boat is still top priority for them. the coast guards are on the search for that boat as well. so while they have, you know, a few cards to play, looking at

this house, they're not ruling anything out at this point. >> jesse: so we have the boat. the boat is not there. the car was found by the boat, and our sources are telling us, when you go down river, there's a damn. so you're not going to be able to make it all the way out to the atlantic. he had to have known that. do you think the boat's a decoy? >> it could be. and, again, this is just a 15-foot lake boat. >> jesse: right. >> if he's headed out south out to the ocean, that is not a sea worthy vessel you want to be on. >> jesse: right. >> it's not getting too cold there tonight, going to get down into the 50s but you know when you're out on a boat you're exposed to all the elements, not a place you want to be so it absolutely could be the decoy that he was trying to throw law eners forcement off by putting his vehicle there, possibly ditching the boat somewhere else. it's not been accounted for and that's why they're not ruling it out but again at the same time they don't have any information that he has taken that boat, you know, downstream or up river. >> jesse: see, we're looking at

live shots now that look like they have an armored vehicle approaching the house. this would be maybe carrying swat team members, maybe some of the robots that they're going to use to deploy inside. what kind of vehicle do you think that is? >> yeah, so that's going to be a heavily armored vehicle. again they want to make sure nobody on the law enforcement side is injured in this. they're bringing every resource to bear. again i mentioned all the federal agencies there, they're going to bring all their resources, all their toys to make sure that they take this guy down and that nobody is injured. that's the last -- he's already inflicted enough tragedy already with these count -- these senseless murders. and so we want to make sure that justice is served for those victims, and that no one else is harmed from this guy. >> jesse: callahan, take me back to the boat. do we even know he was riding this vehicle that they found next to the dock with the boat missing? how do we know that wasn't staged? and if it wasn't staged, how do

we know he didn't have another vehicle next to the dock? >> yeah, you're absolutely right. now, we talk about how he's been going through this mental health episode and he was hearing voices. that doesn't preclude him from creating a pretty clever plan when it comes to alluding law enforcement. so he could absolutely have all of this built up in his head, planning, you know, who knows how long he's been planning this for. so these could absolutely be those red herrings law enforcement is worried b the white subaru that was known to be his vehicle that was found there. they do know that he had a boat and a jet ski as well. so this could be that red herring. that could be the wild goose chase that he wants law enforcement to go down while he takes a completely different path. >> jesse: and they found a handgun in the car. callahan, thank you very much. >> thanks, jesse. >> jesse: here now, james gaglioni a retired fbi special

agent. so they're bringing in the armored car and we don't know if the boat deal was a ruse. what's going through your mind? >> i think, jesse, the number one thing that concerns me, and it concerns all of law enforcement, you always want to reduce the variable count when you're looking to a tactical resolution. this incident here has the biggest case of variables there are. and you spoke to them. the fact that there is a vehicle that possibly he could have been in. the fact that there's a boat that's missing that he could possibly be in. you see, the things you want to reduce on the variable count. number one you want to locate the suspect. we have a suspected mass murder. so we're not guessing, hey, does he have a propensity to commit violence. he's done that. he's killed people, murdered them in cold blood. number two, you have a rolling crisis site. meaning you don't know where law enforcement are going to come upon him. is he going to be see created in the house, on public

transportation, and the worse case is, could he possibly take hostages. that changes the dynamic jesse every time we're doing this. if he's barricaded we can stop take a deep breath come up with a good deliberate plan. if he takes hostages and we know he has a propensity, he's already killed people, then it changes the dynamic. >> jesse: that's good analysis, and let's not forget he's the owner of a motorcycle, too. so you're just going to add another variable to the mix. the fact that you have a hunter, someone who fishes, obviously can survive in the wilderness, familiar with this wilderness, what happens if he gets west? or what happens if he gets north? and almost impossible at night in dense forest, he could be making major head way outside the perimeter the police have set up. >> yeah, great point. the speed with which he committed this heinous crime, killed 18 people, there's probably a dozen or so that are

still wounded and in critical condition, and then got away. he could be on the other side of the country by now. he could be on public transportation, he could be in a vehicle. he could be on foot. and, jesse, you know maine. maine is not exactly a state that you would say is full of urban areas, there's a lot of rural areas there. so you've got to look at it from shutting roadways down, check points, then you've got to worry about hey, is he somewhere in some type of urban hide. or is necessity the woods, you remember eric rudolph, the 1996 atlanta bomber, he hid out in the forest for years. so there's -- again, it's the variables here and that's what's got everybody on edge and makes this so difficult to shut down. >> jesse: he's like an hour or so maybe more outside of portland maine and then you have the coastline right there, and you've got boston south, new hampshire south. he could go north to canada. or, as you said, he could just stay in the woods in maine for as long as possible. what would you, if you put yourself in the mind of this

guy, what's the safest route. >> over 55% of all mass shootings jesse there is thinking that goes into them before. these people are grievance collectors. there's something that bothers them, eats at them. and then you add in the mental health and mental instability component. again more variables. this guy was not a dumb guy, 40 years old, army reserveist, had never been deployed. he trained, i think, in wisconsin, georgia, new york. he was just -- and camp smith and petes kill new york just in july when they had him committed for a couple weeks to have a mental health evaluation. i'm sure this guy gave it some thought and then with typical grievance collectors, something happens that triggers it. and when you opened the show, you talked about it, the possibility that he heard something in the bowling alley, something their at a timed him, piqued him and that caused him to go on this rampage.

he's a petroleum supply specialist in the army reserves, not suggesting he's an navy seal or army ranger but he knows how to kill people he's done it an expert marksman, knows his way around firearms, this guy is going to be a tough guy to hunt down but he will be captured he will be found if he has not killed himself already somewhere. >> jesse: he's going to be a tough hunt and he will kill again if that's what it takes. thank you so much. excellent analysis. >> thanks. >> jesse: here now, former u.s. army special forces and america matters executive director jim hanson. so this guy has a grievance, we believe it was triggered from chatter or from an ex-girlfriend situation. went in there, mowed down 18 people, boom, disappeared. >> yeah, exactly. and the question now is, if he's in the house, did he bring anyone with him. but all, you know, intention right now, they don't know that

there are any hostages in there. and i think the most dangerous situation for all of us, for everybody on the, you know, response teams and for anyone inside the house is, if it's a hostage situation. if it's not, the available options for the response teams, for the operators going in, increases dramatically, and i think that is the situation we're hoping for. if he's in the house, they want him to be alone because then they don't have to worry about anyone else potentially becoming, you know, a victim. >> jesse: so we heard about the protocol that they use to go in. it's maybe three hours. why does it take that long, if you're going to go in first with the bull horn, then do you the thing where it lights up the house and then maybe a canine, maybe a drone. why does it take three hours? >> i think in every one of those situations, the goal is to take him alive and, you know, give him over to the justice system. and for a lot of us, that doesn't make sense. that's kind of hard to swallow.

you know, if you have the opportunity and the guy walks by a window, most of us say have the sniper drop him at that moment and i think that's an understandable sentiment. but that's not how our justice system works. and unfortunately that may be a military response, but that's not what we're doing right now. so they're going to do everything they can, if there's no indication that there are no other civilians, you know, at risk currently, to resolve this without having to go to kinetic action but if they do they, like i said, can go in a lot of different ways. they don't have to go in through a door or window, they can go in through any number of different entry techniques and then they're not looking to rescue a hostage, they're looking to take down a killer. >> jesse: that's a great point. they're trying to apprehend this guy. so they have lights on the house now and the property looks like there's a little bit of a grade going down. it's not flat land. it doesn't look like a big property, doesn't look like it's multiple stories. it's kind of hard to tell.

i'm making out a chimney possibly. but how many entrances? it has to be maybe two entrances max. they probably have the place surrounded. i would send in a dog. but what do i know. why does the dog come last? >> i think because they want him to walk out the door. you know, that's the ideal situation is they wear him down, he decides, okay, i did what i was going to do and either blows his own head off or he walks out the door to do suicide by cop or he walks out the door and surrenders. so any of those other techniques are designed to mentally degrade him so that he'll end this himself. and i'm fine with any of those ways. but they have to go in. it's not just entrances. >> jesse: yeah, but, jim, do you think this man killed this many people and then went home? he's either then a total socio path who plans nothing or he wants to kill himself. what do you think's going on here?

>> almost every one of these situations resolves itself with a dead perpetrator. you know, it's almost -- it's a rare thing when they're captured alive. so i think odds are, he's looking to go out in a blaze of glory and, unfortunately, will likely get that. and then we won't have the opportunity to put him on trial. i understand a lot of the public, and myself included, i could careless if he goes on trial. i want him to assume room temperature and never threaten another person. so, you know, as far as that goes, whatever they can do to get him out, i think they're obligated to try. but i think most of the public and a lot of common sense folks don't care if he sees the inside of a courtroom i want him to see the underside of a too many stone. >> jesse: here here. jim always a pleasure. thank you. >> okay jesse. >> jesse: we have dog the bounty hunter joining us now. dog, do you think this guy's in the house? >> boy, i don't know. on the way to the studio, i just

heard that he's in there. what a nut. i mean he's mentally incompetent, voices are talking to him. you never know when these guys get like that, highly, highly trained, one of probably the most dangerous guys in a decade. who knows what this guy's thinking. but i agree with everyone else that's been saying, the first thing -- i think the coast guard showed up so they're probably in charge along with the federal marshals. their goal is to catch him alive. i know they probably got a negotiator there, somebody that's also military trying to talk him out, talk him out. if this guy went back home, he's more mentally off than i thought. >> jesse: yeah. >> i thought he was -- my goodness. so, yeah. he went out, shot it all up and then drives home? dear god this guy wants to die. >> jesse: yeah, he's either a suicidal murderer who's maybe looking at his last couple minutes on earth, or he's in the

woods, dog. and we looked at the map. i mean, if you get west an hour, you are in the middle of nowhere. does that scare you? >> well, like i said, this is probably the most dangerous guy they've had in over a decade. and this guy is military trained. he's an alleged survivor, you know, for the woods. i don't know if that means it's because he's a fisherman. but if he's in a cabin somewhere, he planned this. he's got a place that's probably booby trapped, he's a good sniper. he's just waiting on them to come. i guess he got on a jet ski, then got on his boat. all this, even though he's mental, this was all planned. the whole idea, all these guys, school shooters, killers like that, it seems like 98% of them hear voices. so i chased a guy one time, and i asked the parents, will he, you know, use the gun that he's

got? and the dad said, dog, it all depends on what the drugs tell him to do. so in this time, will this guy shoot it out? brother, i don't know. it all depends on what the voices tell him to do. so i agree with everyone. >> jesse: we don't know what kind of drugs that he was given or if he was even given drugs when he was involuntarily committed to the psychiatric institution. you said he could be in a cabin. he could be in the woods. could have been booby trapped. >> yes. >> jesse: he has a sniper position set up. what do you mean when you said he's got the cabin booby trapped and can't they throw a helicopter in there with the thermal sensory to see what's cooking? >> well, they can throw a sensory up there, but if they've got a helicopter up there still. like he's probably booby trapped it for people to walk up where he's got things, who knows, some kind of something where he knows when someone's coming. i've chased a lot of these guys, these mental guys, and before they're released from these mental hospitals, nowadays,

brother, they give them a bunch of pills. okay, you're fixed, take three of these a day and keep on trucking. if you need us, call us. especially these military guys from the va, they drug them up, there's nothing else they can do, and they kick them out. so it could be drugs. but, again, the voices. that's what scares me. the voices tell him what to do. this is like impossible where he shoots it out, kills all these people and then goes home. i've never heard of that. even charlie manson had more brains. of course he's not there, you know, they're seeing ghosts and he's in the woods somewhere but wherever he's at, he's booby trapped and ready. >> jesse: so they're probably setting up check points all over the place. and maine is just a bunch of dark roads. once you get inland a little bit, there's no lighting. there's no street lamps. there's absolutely nothing. so we don't even know what kind of vehicle he has. he has, as you said, a jet ski

we know. he has a motorcycle license to his name. and now he has this subaru that's sitting there empty with a handgun in it. could he have commandeered another vehicle? >> the subaru the doors were open it looks like to me, so that means he left in a hurry. brother when you stay in the woods i've tracked these guys in the dark dark. the first night you can't see. the second night, your mind, whatever it's called, you can see. the second night of being there you can see, not like you got a flashlight but you can see. so you never know what he's using. usually they lay down at night and, you know, they wait and then make their -- or lay down in the day and at night make their moves. it's going to take a day or so to figure out his patterns but again, that would really -- this is offbeat for him to go, shoot it out and then go home. >> jesse: yeah. >> what sounds more like military is he's got, you know, a place booby trapped, he's

ready and i think again that he may have -- he may do it again. like we all say, killers kill. once they kill once, they get excited. two guys tried to take him down, did you hear that? and he fought them off and killed them or shot them both. i don't know if he killed them. so this guy is a maniac. so who knows, you know, only time will tell. but this is very scary. the coast guard's in there, the feds are in there. it takes a lot of a man to walk up on these guys, when you know they're out to kill you. this is where you separate the men from the boys, brother. these cops, they've got the bravest men in america after this guy. >> jesse: god bless. dog the bounty hunter, stick around for us. thank you so much. >> yes, sir. >> jesse: here now, chad hairs a former swat assistant team leader and company founder of proactive response group.

chad, you heard what the dog said. i would be looking at some of his hunting buddies. this guy hunts in the area, knows the wilderness. he could have a cabin. he could have a little perch. i would start there. >> absolutely, jesse. and i'll tell you, there's always early warning signs in these types of shooters. with his background, with his expertise, with his knowledge of the land, it actually sets him up for an advantage for these tactical units. if he is out there in the woods, he definitely has the advantage over them right now. >> jesse: so he knows the wilderness better than the law enforcement knows the wilderness, even though they have all the technology, he knows the grooves, he knows the contours, he knows where each foot is going. how long could this possibly take if he's not in the house? >> well, that's the thing. i know we're talking a lot about the house. and, look, i hope he is in there and we bring this thing to an end quickly. but, again, we keep talking about eric rudolph, that was right above me in north

carolina. we know how long eric rudolph was on the run. someone with the background that he has, a survivalist an avid outdoorsman, this could go on forever, it could go on for many years but all it takes is one slip up, one screw up. he has to look over his shoulder every single day and hope not to get caught. i just have to get lucky once. >> jesse: so when you do these active shooter responses, that has to be incredibly complex and incredibly dangerous. you're bringing in every asset you have. you have radio communications. what kind of things could go wrong? >> well, communication probably is the biggest thing. having communication with everyone, making sure the right resources are in play. i'll be honest, i like that -- nighttime for me, using technology like the helicopters, things like that, utilizing our dogs, he's going to get tired at some point. he's going to screw up at some point and they're going to be able to slide in.

but again without going into a lot of detail, there is a lot of advanced technology out there jesse, and i promise you that the entire, you know, federal law enforcement, state and local are utilizing all their resources. >> jesse: chad you can't tease me like that and tell me there's new tech law enforcement has we don't know about that's so good you can't tell me. you can't give me a little hint? >> a lot of it's out there, right, especially especially the fleer, the near device picking up heat signatures, i would say there's technology out there that we can lock in on him and be within feet of him before he even knows it. >> jesse: could the heat thermometer go through a house? >> 100%. >> jesse: so they know if he's in there or not right now, right? >> i would have a -- i would agree that there is a strong likelihood that they have a pretty good idea if he is in that house or not. again, some of these heat signature devices, you have to be pretty close to the

residence. i'm not sure, again, with the helicopter and the fleer how much heat signatures you're going to get. firemen use it all the time in fires so i don't know that standoff distance in that but there is technology out there to be able to see if there's heat signatures and movement within that residence. >> jesse: he might have to know that though. he's well trained. he's army reserve. he must know all the assets that could be deployed against him. >> jesse, i'll be honest, just like dog just said, look, i teach active shooter response for a living. this is what we do. the people who commit these attacks, they're mentally unstable, but with his background, he knows that. i just don't see him being in this residence. i honestly think that he is either out in the woods or he has crossed into the canadian border. >> jesse: you think he made it to canada that fast? >> i really do. i think someone that is that hyped up and is that crazy to go commit mass murder the way he did, you know, he hit the road,

whatever means he has. but i just don't see him being in that residence. >> jesse: do you think he's safer in canada than he is in the middle of nowhere in the woods of maine? >> no, but, again, they're criminals. they're not -- i get it. he's got an extensive military background but they're still not smart. all right, they still screw up from time to time. so i just think he's smart enough not to stay in that residence knowing that, you know, you have the entire northeast law enforcement hunting you. he's planned this attack. the majority of these people that commit these attacks, they plan their -- they do plan their attacks. there's early warning signss in the majority of the shooters. the people that commit these attacks there are a lot of early warning signs that we see. so he has planned this attack and let's be honest, he parked the car at the boat doc to throw law enforcement off but you have some of the most talented and seasoned officers up there searching for him. i think it comes to an end within the next 12 hours

honestly. >> jesse: even if he made it to canada. that's pretty optimistic. we're hearing reports from people on the ground, they're saying they heard someone over the loud speaker, clear the road, clear the road, and we saw a couple vehicles leave the property. we don't know what that means, but we'll just bring that to your attention. if he gets to canada, obviously this is an international fugitive, we have the canadian mounties, they're going to help us out, would he be trying to stay in canada, trying to fly out? what's the next step when you make it across an international border? >> you know, my thoughts are, with his background, wilderness. i don't see him trying to flee. again, i haven't heard a lot of reports on the resources that he may have, financial resources or things like that. but someone, you know, with his background in the wilderness, there's so much forest and woods up in that area right over the border that, again, just like eric rudolph, he could hide out for an extended period of time. but again eric rudolph was

caught because he got comfortable. going, you know, he gets caught in a dumpster diving for food. he's going to run out of ammo sooner or later. you can only hunt and kill so many deer, whatever you're going to eat, you're going to run out of ammo. sure you can break into houses but again that exposes you and you leave traces of dna behind and other things like that. so living in the woods is very, very tough. >> jesse: you sure are right about that. remember he can fish, too, so -- >> exactly. >> jesse: who knows how long he could last out there. very good point though law enforcement definitely has the clock on their side. thank you so much. >> thanks jesse. >> jesse: chad, let's bring in now dana lash a nationally syndicated radio host. dana you heard all about this guy's military background, what type of weapons he has. what does your instinct tell you what happened here? >> well, my first instinct, jesse, and i hate that we have another atrocity like this and i also feel like this is somebody that may have fallen through the

cracks and my first instinct -- obviously we don't know anything. there are so many questions that still remain out there. the time line of when he was committed. and i want to point something out for everybody. because everybody's been very, very careful in their wording on this. they're saying this killer just over the summer, just a few months ago, july of '23, that he was committed to a mental health institution. they didn't say that he was admitted, they said committed which means that main perhaps and i know law enforcement right now the first priority is to capture this dangerous monster, but at some point this information will need to come out. if he was involuntarily committed that makes him a problem i have possessor and that opens up other questions jesse. for instance, this took place in new york, new york state requires that mental health professionals who are treating someone if they're involuntarily committed they have to tell the division of criminal justice services look to see if they

have a permit, then you get into confiscation. then of course his residence in maine, did new york alert maine. was maine aware? maine has yellow flag laws, new york has red flag laws. at what point was there, if there was, involuntary commitment. was there any intervention from authorities or by family, because they have different processes in each state. so there's a lot of questions that come up, including whether or not he even legally obtained this firearm. there are a lot of unconfirmed narratives circulating on social media. but i do know one thing jesse we don't know enough right now to claim it was an inanimate object or law abiding gun owners throughout the country who see things like this throughout the country and they're thanking god they have a second amendment. >> jesse: of course. especially with this and you add the hamas deal, obviously. what does it tell you if the family said this guy was bonkers and the boss said the guy was bonkers, and the army base said the guy was bonkers, they wanted him committed. so you have like three individual people saying this

guy was bonkers, and he still has guns. what happened? >> well, the family had said they told the press that his mental health had taken a hit, that it was really deteriorating in the past year. and of course in the past year that's when he was talking about shooting up his base in beening no. that's when apparently, you know, his superiors decided that he was dangerous. they spoke to police. they had him, looks like, again, i'm going to use the phrase that's been reported, he was committed, doesn't sound like it was voluntary. so what were the terms of his release? because it didn't sound like jesse, didn't sound like it was just a quick emergency hold for a quick evaluation. i mean, he was in there for two weeks, that's a significant period of time for something like this. so what were the terms of his release? for instance, virginia tech, the killer in virginia tech, the terms of his release and his treatment was that he had ongoing -- he had to see a psychiatrist. he had to see a mental health professional, he didn't keep up with it fell through the cracks

and nobody saw when he got very bad. was this similar, a similar situation? what were the terms of his release, did he have to go on treatment. was he taken serious medications for mental health impairment and at any point was he adjudicated. that's the other thing if you're in there two weeks, was he a jude indicate, the legal term is mentally defective was he adjudicated and at that point was he a problemed possessor and was that reported to the crime information center. you remember with sutherland springs the horrible atrocity that took place in texas, the individual in that case, his domestic violence convictions were not reporteded to the national crime information center which allowed him then to legally purchase a firearm. >> jesse: there's so much we don't know. it's so early right now we're not going to be able to make sense of it for probably another three to four days. dana, you're already hearing, i believe it was kamala harris, say something like, oh, well, you know, what they do in australia, you know, why can't they -- australia i think they took away everybody's weapons.

>> and then ownership is back at the pre confiscation levels which completely undermines her point and also this isn't australia. and i think if we're going to talk about the criminal usage of firearms against innocents it's unfair for the defence gun use as knowledge that take place that outpace criminal usage. it's so blatant the cdc was cluing with gun controlled groups, e-mailed receipts of this. this was one of the biggest stories of last year cluing with gun control groups to remove those defensive gun usage numbers, not just from their web site but also from any surveys they were releasing because according to what the gun control lobby said in their e-mails to cdc officials it undermined, jesse, their narrative for confiscation and pushing further gun control on a state and national level. >> jesse: wow, that is pretty signify. >> incredibly signify gent that is really dirty. incredibly dirty. we are going to do a report on that, i had not seen that. dana, thank you as always.

>> thanks jesse. >> jesse: well, we've had varying degrees of action outside police were outside and then left, then patiently investigators saw something inside or outside the house which prompted police to return. they don't know what or who or what that is. here now jonathan gilliam a former fbi agent and u.s. navy seal. so there is a a little confusion now. what do you think is happening tactically? >> well, i think it's hurry up and pause is what you will see right here at this point is that, because darkness is there, darkness is their friend now. and also, the extent of time that's passed since the actual attack occurred yesterday, this individual, if he is in that house, he could have food in there which gives him food, but he's not going to be able to rest. and so they have time on their hands if he is in the house, but earlier, as you all were talking about, it's important for them not to solely focus on this

house, because that's how individuals end up getting away. but, jesse, can i just say one thing about what dana was saying there that's very, very important. >> jesse: yeah. >> is that every day in this country, people are -- they interact with law enforcement on a violent scale but not violent enough to where they are arrested. law enforcement will allow them to go. and who they are and what they have done and their behavior that is displayed is never charted. and a lot of these individuals are repeat offenders at that level over and over and over again. when you take that type of an individual that is not charted, you throw in their mental health, and people don't take the mental health seriously, what you're seeing is, in all of these people who do mass shootings, this is a characteristic that is over and over and over again displayed to law enforcement but none of that information is ever collected. and what i would like to see is

a database that, when police officers interact with people, just like you would do on your phone when you get a little questionnaire and you just put in there the basic behaviors of this individual, if there was mental issues if there was violence. >> jesse: yeah, you have to start tabulating some of this intelligence on these people because you can't just let it fly by. >> right. >> jesse: looks like we're seeing a lot of the vehicles depart the residence. i saw about a dozen vehicles, some armored, some regular quad scars, leaving this guy's residence. that tells me there is no one there? maybe the search is over? maybe they went in, we didn't see it. again, that's right on top of the hill so it's very hard to tell exactly what went down on the property. but again, these are a lot of vehicles leaving the house that is owned by this suspect. >> so they may have made entry and there's nothing there. also, there's also -- during the initial sound that goes out or call that goes out that there

may be someone in the house, you're going to see a tremendous amount of law enforcement come to that location. but after a period of time, that is wasted manpower that could be out searching. so it could be a combination of either one of those things. >> jesse: yeah, because we heard i think before one of these towns only has 17 officers. >> right. >> jesse: and this is a very, very low-density state. i mean, it's very, very low population, and the population is all along the coast. and once you get north, once you get west, it's all woods. >> right. and one of the things that nobody's talking about is how long it took to get the law enforcement presence going. i mean, there was a lot of time between the initial attack, the second attack, and then when the call went out to the locals to shelter in place. we're talking about over an hour. so that shows you the size of law enforcement in that area.

it's not big. so when they responded, i don't know how many officers they had there, they may not have had enough to go to both places, and once they get tied into that investigation, it gives that individual more time to flee. but one thing i do want to say about this type of individual is that almost a hundred percent of the time there's only two outcomes. they're either psych path i can and they want to be caught because they want the fame or they are an actual suicidal person or some kind of psych path that wants to diane so they end up killing themselves. chances are this individual could be dead somewhere and we don't know that but again they can't act on that, they have to act on the fact that he's still a threat. >> jesse: he could be dead somewhere. i never even considered that. >> yeah. >> jesse: thank you so much. >> and if he's dead -- go ahead. >> jesse: we have to run. thank you so much jonathan. >> you got it jesse. >> jesse: police seem to be leaving the suspect's house which indicates to me he could be anywhere.

my next guest is a local gun store owner who says he's been fielding calls from residents all day who want to arm up to protect their families. trevor brooks joins me now. trevor, what's the mood like in the area? >> still a lot of on-edge feelings, a lot of people who are nervous and trying to follow the news. different social media platforms the best they can to update themselves and each other. still pretty hairy for the most part. >> jesse: is this a heavily-armed community? >> i think maine in general is a heavily armed community, a big hunting state, lot of veterans, a lot of military posts up here. so, yes, it is. and out hereer in this area, little more rural i would say even more so than in town. >> jesse: so you've been told to stay inside. no one's going outside at all? >> for the most part, yeah. there's been a few folks out and about, but we're on lockdown

pretty well here. >> jesse: what's the word on this guy? is anybody talking about him? what's his reputation? >> yeah, you know, within the gun community here, the firearms owners or the firearms store owners, we should say, there's been some talk about has he been a regular, do we know him. has he been in the store, was necessity the store on the day of trying to buy anything before this tragedy. i guess fortunately no one that i've spoken with directly seems to have any ties to this guy, which is, i guess in terms of getting him caught that's not so great but, you know, morally we feel good that we weren't part of this. >> jesse: i can understand that, for sure. when people call your store, what do they say? >> oh, man. calls, e-mails, a lot of messages on social media, and a

lot of it is, hey, i've been holding or for x, y, z reason. i haven't been confident. i haven't had the money. i haven't felt i really needed it. saying hey look, what do you have for me, what can you get me into, do you offer training, can you spend some time for me, what's the best route for protection to protect myself and my family on the street or in my home. what have you got for me. >> reporter: what weapon is the best for home defense? >> yeah, that's a pretty hot debate within this gun world here. a lot of folks prefer a handgun of some sort usually with a weapon light or some sort of optic. it's great, it's easy to move around so it's very mobile and easy to control. there's a big push for people who like shotguns, they like the audible sound of the shotgun. you don't have to have quite the experience. it's not such a precision weapon, if you will. great for in the home.

and again a whole other world of people who like the ar and the ak-47 style weapons i guess referred to as the assault weapons as it were. >> jesse: when you saw the surveillance footage and the images of this guy, he definitely looks like he's well trained. >> yeah, i mean, he's certainly better than the average joe, for sure. he looks like he's moving with the right body language in terms of the lethal. >> jesse: yeah, too lethal. thank you so much trevor. >> sure. my pleasure. >> jesse: joining me now former fbi special agent nicole parker. so nicole, looks like they've left the residence. that search warrant was served, we believe. and now it's a manhunt in the woods or wherever. what comes next? >> right. i mean, this has been an ongoing search from the moment that this individual escaped. but i think it's important to focus on that search warrant and why there was so much activity around that house.

i mean, this is an individual that has just killed 18 individuals, injured 13 others. the standard procedure for law enforcement to deal with someone like this is what we do, it's called a surrounded callout. so when you go to execute a search warrant at a home or any location, you're going to go towards the premise and you obviously will have swat there, you know, highly trained individuals with equipment and that is why you heard them calling out. that is standard, to call them out, even if they did not know that he was in the home, they assume there is someone in there, they do a surrounded callout and they have to clear anything before they execute a search warrant. and so that is what we saw likely, and the maine state police said they were simply doing their standard due diligence and that is what you do. at this point, you know, all hands on deck across various law enforcement agencies. i know that the fbi has offered multiple resources, including their hostage, you know, negotiators, hostage rescue teams, victim assistance

coordinators, evidence response teams. jesse this is a very difficult and complex situation because not only are they trying to process two different crime scenes it's an active manhunt and as we saw with the cavalcante case in pennsylvania, that was all hands on deck and that was an individual who did not kill 22 people so this ratchets it up quite a bit and this is nighttime which is not law enforcement's best friend but they have nighttime technology air surveillance so this thing will continue 24/7 until this individual is apprehend had had. and i think it's important again, the residence, it's got to be -- it's scary. to have to be in your home now for over 24 hours and being told, you know, shelter in place, it's difficult. but, again, the safety of the community is number one. this individual, we don't know what his capacity is. we don't know where he is. we don't know if he took a water craft. there's so many unknowns. but i can tell you that law

enforcement, they always know more than what they're telling the public and as we know he might be following police scanners and things like that. >> jesse: we had a source tell us, nicole, we had a source tell us this guy likes to hunt up north, they were about three towns north of where he ditched his car, maybe a little 40 minutes north of bowdoin where the residence is. three locations. how would all of these law enforcement agencies, talking federal, state and local, work together to kind of squeeze that area in an efficient way? >> that's a very good question and as we know, this terrain here is difficult to search, it's heavily wooded. i understand that you're very familiar with the area of maine. each law enforcement agency is probably tasked with a different area and assignment. you know, there are people that are going to be doing the actual searching for the individual and the manhunt, others that are going to be executing search warrants at the home, others that are doing analysis on who this person is and i guarantee

you that the family members, the family members have been contacted and i know that they are likely trying to get into contact with him and pleading with him to turn himself in. what we hope is that i want him to be captured. i want him to be alive. i want him, i want justice to be served. i want him to face the legal system here and he deserves everything that he gets. i do not want a hostage situation. we do not want anyone to be hurt. and the citizens just continue to obey law enforce; seek shelter and let's hope that law enforcement can track this individual down very quickly. >> jesse: all right. we're all praying for no more blood. nicole, thank you. >> yeah. >> jesse: we'll be right back.

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>> jesse: we're back with dog the bounty hunter. dog, this guy, mass shooter, still at large. i mean, this is extremely rare. >> absolutely.

listen, jesse, let's rob this train, jesse. my blood is boiling. here is what i would do. i like all your guests tonight, you have some of the greatest experts in the world. if i was in charge of this, when you have a guy that's trained like this, more than police officers, he's got more training than any cop. cops don't go training like this. he's got more training than probably the coast guard. you know what i'd do brother? >> sean: what. >> i would go out and get me 300 marines. it takes a marine to catch a marine. i'd take those 300 marines, like sulu warriors looking for a lion and i would comb out there and i would guarantee you, it takes a marine to catch a marine. they would catch him. >> sean: i love it. are you allowed to deploy active duty marines in man nuns the united states? >> well, i don't know. i sure would try it. >> sean: i would try anything at

this point. >> i don't know see why they would say no. >> sean: national guard, whatever, but i agree with the marines. let me ask you this, though, petroleum services, that's what his expertise was. i think this guy knows about logistics, he knows about transportation. this is a smart cookie. >> yes, how do make bombs. you saw -- when i first saw the picture before i read anything, i saw how he was holding the rifle and i told my son, whoa. this guy's a professional killer. a trained killer. so, what you know the marine's favorite story is, kill them all and let god decide. i'd get 300 marines and i'd take this guy out. >> sean: i think sue and collins the senator might have to make a phone call to the white house to rally the troops. because we're going to need a lot of help with this guy.

we just saw a lot of vehicles leave the residence, we believe the search warrant was executed, probably processing the computers and the evidence. where does this thing now go? >> well, he's at -- they know where he's at. i mean, they don't know exactly, but they've got an area. again, like she said, they're not telling you exactly. they know an area where he could probably be. so they'll concentrate. i don't think you have to go to the white house to get permission for anything. what's he going to do? i think you just ask -- and i don't mean to be disrespectful. >> sean: call the base commander. >> gee see what we can do. >> yes, sir. >> sean: see what resources we can bring to bare on this guy, because this guy is a stone cold killer and he'll do it again. dog we have to run. >> yes. >> sean: great ideas. >> aloha brother. >> sean: thank you so much. >> thank you, sir. >> jesse: hannity's up next. >> sean: welcome to hannity. we are broadcasting live ent