♪ ♪ howard: at the top of last

week's program, i used pretty strong language to slam "the new york times" for swallowing hamas propaganda with that initial headline, israelis kill hundreds in hospital, palestinians say, which was flatly untrue. the day after the show, the times essentially apologized saying in an editor's note the paper relied too heavily on claims by hamas and did not make clear those claims could not be legally verified. times' editors should have taken more care and been more explicit sit about what information could be verified. i give the paper credit, but the damage, the enflaming of the region, cannot be undone. and cnn has now run a correction to its first story blaming israel for the hospital explosion which was caused by an errant islamic jihad rocket. as israel conducts its second incursion into gaza, the hamas terrorists have now released two israeli hostages, an 85-year-old woman and a 79-year-old woman. just think about that for a

minute, amid all the rush of other war news. of course, we're happy about their release, but what kind of savagery does it take to capture an elderly grandmother and hold her as a bargaining chip? this is nothing short of sick. when she was first captured, she said she was beaten with sticks. >> translator: to tell you the truth, i've been through hell. they kidnapped me, laid me on my side on a motorbike and rammed into the -- in gaza. they blew out the fence. there's no difference between young or old, men or women. it was very, very painful. howard: just devastating. and their elderly husbands are still being held hostage along with 227 others including americans. the media have to be supremely careful about covering these releases without being manipulated by hamas. i'm howard kurtz and this is "mediabuzz." ♪ ♪

howard: the media are still solidly behind israel, but there is disagreement about the humanitarian crisis in gaza. >> now, rather than being held accountable and quickly for their barbaric murder of civilians and the torture of women and children, hamas is using hostages to win propaganda points and stall an invasion. >> the bombing is creating a humanitarian disaster in gaza is. it seems that netanyahu is under some pressure to conduct a very, very violent campaign. >> the way hamas fights is they will put civilians in a situation where they're going to be harmed. this is a question that hamas has to answer, not israel. >> hamas could release all their hostages right away. it is incredible to me though that, you know, wounded hostages, infants, toddlers, people with severe medical conditions are still being held.

howard: joining us now to analyze coverage, robby soave, senior ed editor at reason magazine, and in new york, liz claman host of "the claman countdown" on fox business network airing at three eastern. robby, are the media losing sight of the fact that a the terrorists released these few hostages to create the illusion of humanitarian reasons? >> yeah, absolutely. one of the hostages describing her conditions as more favorable or kinder, and i'm, like, they're still holding her husband hostage. howard: yeah. >> what she says might be taken with a grain of salt. she might be afraid that they could retaliate, so let's, honestly, not stick a camera in this poor traumatized person's face at all. and, yes, you called out the coverage for being one-sided and just for believing, for totally believing talking points from a terrorist group. and i think this week has been maybe a little bit better than

the week before having to do with the hospital incident in terms of media coverage, but at lot of mistakes have been made. howard: well, i think if the woman wants to speak, she should be allowed to speak and, obviously, she has to watch her remarks. liz, so naturally there's a celebratory mood when a couple of people are released like these two elderly women. and, by the way, this terrorist group is still holding 32 the 2s including families and children. >> yes. but let me just take on robby for one second here. i think, yes, there have been missteps with the press particularly, as you said, the missouri times. but if we -- "the new york times." if we look at the media coverage so far, you have seen some of the bravest war correspondent coverage, and look at what some in the media have done. the minute the atrocities, the murders were reported after october 7th, fox and cnn, i'm pointing those two out in particular, poured resources

into the region and began covering this immediately at great risk to the correspondents. fox's trey yingst, steve harrigan, mike tobin, greg palkot, c america n's -- ncc's anderson cooper, erin burr innocent, in the middle of the night they're doing their shows, getting hostage release interviews, and i think it's important to put that on. and i think that the world does need to see through the press the disgusting atrocities -- just read peggy noonan's column today in the "wall street journal," op-ed page, it's no holds barred. she describes the most horrifying details because the world needs to see this. instead of listening to hamas saying, oh, look at us, we're freedom fighters. howard: there's absolutely no question that from many, many muse organizations, a although it's been difficult to get into gaza and a number of foreign journalists have been killed, but that they have exhibited incredible bravery and reporting, so i'm glad you

pointed that out. many media reports say president biden has repeatedly urged bibi netanyahu to delay or limit the ground invasion. not sure if this is it, but to allow more time for hostage negotiations and because u.s. officials didn't think the israelis were ready. but the white house officials are like, oh, no, we're not telling them what to do. >> i don't thinkst the totally inappropriate for us to tell them what to do. we've supported israel for decades, we've given this country more money than any other country on earth. we're continuing to the support them. the american taxpayers have been asked to be very generous when it comes to the security of many other missions -- howard: and we don't want a wider war. >> we don't want to be more involved. i think daves, frankly -- conservatives, frankly, think that's fine that we should have some say over how this money is spent and make sure it's not going to get us into the kind of conflict that leery no one, liberals, conservatives, no one wants to repeat iraq or libya or any of that. howard: yeah, right. >> so, yes, if cooler heads can

prevail, that's fine. howard: liz, we've been through a couple of cycles where israeli military officials droppingly hint that a ground invasion is imminent. the coverage ramps up and then it doesn't happen. i wonder if the press is being used here to throw hamas off guard. >> that's a little simplistic, to say that. i mean, the press is reporting in realtime, i believe, and the realtime is not what the israeli military is going to do to make sure that it's on the media's timeline. again, i do believe that as they cover each and every part of this it develops, and to that end, you know, i think what's often missed in the press, howie, through all of this especially as we get further out from the initial horrors of october 7th is that hamas is a government. israel left the gaza strip in 2006, handed the keys over, and the palestinians elected hamas. so this is a government

basically making the distinct decision to roll in across people's borders, it was a calculated decision by a government to the cross the border, invade, slaughter, rape civilians of another country. so any country would fight back against that. that's understandable. i agree with robby, i think that every u.s. dollar no matter where it goes, including to the palestinian territories, should be marked and looked at very closely. but the israelis have a are good track record of using it exactly for what they say they're going to use it for, and right now that is to wipe out hamas. howard: of course, a lot of people do forget that israel voluntarily withdrew from gaza, but also since then there have been no more elections. it's been a dictatorship. white house press secretary karine jean-pierre has taken a lot of media flak for this exchange. let's roll it. >> what is the level of concern right now about the potential rise of anti-semitism in light

of everything that's going on in. >> look, we have not seen any credible threats. but, look, muslim and those perceive ised to be muslim have endured a disproportionate number of hate-fueled attacks. howe she answered the question about anti-semitism in terms of islamophobia. was that tone deaf? >> certainly, because -- and that juxtaposition made it sound like there hasn't been a rise in anti-semitism. actually, liberal groups have been trying to -- that there has been a rise in anti-semitism and that it's trump's fault. so this is the difference, right, when it can be credibly tied to left-wing advances particularly on college campus, then it's downplayed. you could just look at senator bernie sanders had a perfectly benign tweet about the anniversary of the synagogue violence -- howard: pittsburgh. >> yeah, just saying this was terrible, obviously, and we should be worried about anti-semitism, that's all.

read the ponces to that. it's his -- responses to that. it's left-wing people saying how dare you say this right now, how dare you. it's outside owes. -- old yous, horrifying. howard: liz, why do you think there's merely unanimous support in congress for aid to israel, but there is a pretty deep split in the republican party about giving aid to the ukraine which biden is trying to tie together in his proposed package? >> that's sort of where the press hasn't gotten to the root of that issue. conservatives, republicans, two two of one are very, very supportive of money going to ukraine to fight the russians and to send a message that russia cannot invade, and it is extraordinarily important for western democracy, the u.k. is involved, the european union, and we remember what happened pre-world war ii. that said, the more pro-trump republicans in there for some

reason are against this, and i say for some reason because since when have republicans been against or concerned about overspending on defense, and since when have republicans thought it was a bad idea to send a message to russia or china? because make no mistake, this money sends a message to china that you try anything like that in taiwan, and you'll get the same response. howard: right. robby, just briefly, you kind of went viral on another podcast -- [laughter] and so i ask, on the subject of israel, it's hard to cover this with anything other than emotion because of the gravity of what's happening. >> the topic brings out the worst in a lot of people, it brings out a lot of emotion. it's the reason it's one of the most acrimonious debate subjects on college campuses, because it is a difficult issue and there's competing claims for territory of land. and there has been mistreatment of people on both sides, and there have been policies that i think ought to have been different.

but, obviously, in the wake of a horrific terrorist attack where people were shot in their home, at the bus station, in cars, people abducted at a music festival and still being held, it's my belief that that needs to be condemned in the strongest terms without equivocation. howard: ahead, how house republicans finally picked a speaker, but when we come back, the backlash against colleges that have been silent on hamas while students celebrate the terror attackses. ♪ ♪ miralax works naturally with the water in your body to help you go... ...free your gut. and your mood will follow. for 8 grams of fiber, try new mirafiber gummies. it's easy to get lost in investment research. introducing j.p. morgan personal advisors. hey david. connect with an advisor to create your personalized plan. let's find the right investments for your goals okay, great. j.p. morgan wealth management.

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howard: there is a growing media and political backlash against anti-israel protests on amajor college campuses. former governor jon huntsman called reprehensible, a new low. silence is anti-semitism. and cut off his foundation's

donations to the university of pennsylvania. when harvard refusedded to condemn the hamas afrosty, larry summers called the pro-gaza stance morally unconscionable. and here's what billionaire leon cooperman, a columbia graduate, told liz claman. >> the real shame is i've given to columbia probably about $50 million over many years, and i'll give my giving to other organizations. liz: wow, that is a big statement. howard: liz, the the reaction from leon cooperman, who also told you that students have s for brains, in ending donations, that seems to be an increasingly common story. >> there is a donor revolt right now. when they see that the leadership at these universities somehow has become can cotton mouthed in the sight, full sight, of blatant anti-semitism, you know, let's be clear about leon cooperman, he is the son of polish-jewish immigrants when

came to this country. bronx, he wrote a book called from bronx to wall street, and he spent, like, two chapters dedicated to columbia and crediting columbia for helping him give him a shot at becoming a sell made billionaire. so -- self-made billionaire. so let's just focus on the students having s for brains, let's just focus on that, he handed an unmarked map of a map of the middle east, kids could no sooner pull out gaza is or israel than they could recrete a pass -- recite a passage from shakespeare. the president of columbia has somehow been unable or unwilling to decry a professor named joseph mossad, a tenured professor and, by the way, a columbia graduate, who called the attacksen -- on israel, he called them innovative and awesome. howard: awesome, right. >> -- quote, handicraft it's an

outrage. and where are the university presidents? so leon says no more money. howard: robby, how did we get to the point where so many student thes at it -- elite schools are cheering the barbaric atoesestieses of hamas many -- atrocities of hamas? >> it's been going on for a long time, is so i'm frankly, with respect to the donors, what did you think was happening? i've been warning, i've been writing about the antics of activism on college campuses for a very long time. i've written a book on it, others have. others have pointedded out the illiberal schism of -- illiberalism of student activists. harvard was just sues for racism against asian students that it had been practicing in admissions the same way it used to do to jewish students. these institutions for a long time have been left wing, hostile to the american project, inculcating bad values in young people and have not been a good subject for donations, frankly.

so i'm glad people are waking up, but it's not new at all. howard: liz, just briefly, a number of republican candidates including donald trump say any foreign national here on a student visa who supports hamas should be deported. now, while i'm sort of sympathetic the that, count it raise -- doesn't it raise serious free speech questions. >> >> yeah, but it's like what's happening on campus. they can see shades of gray on free speech, but they can't see black and white and speak out against anti-semitism. and regarding the president of columbia or these other universities, that suggests that they are not leaders. but to what's happening in washington, d.c., there are a couple of republican congressmen who have actually put out a letter to the state department, i believe. there's a law, howie, called the immigration and nationality act where student visas can be disqualified if they endorse or espouse terrorist views. when you are cheering on hamas, you are endorsing and espousing terrorist views. howard: got it. >> now, is it free speech to

stick up for the pal sip january civilians and say they need more humanitarian aid? yes. you don't deport somebody for that. but these are students cheering on something that is a total anathema to american values of democracy, and it seems pretty darn easy. howard: right. robby, you know, back in 2020 these universities that now say they have to be neutral certainly denounced the murder of george floyd and backed black lives matter. >> for sure. and i think they deserve a lot of criticism. but i do want to be careful, i don't trust the federal government to decide whose views are too extreme and what makes them a terrorist. many conservatives are frustrated about how trump supporters have been treated by the weaponization of the federal bureaucracy, so i would not be incrooned to -- inclined the government more power to say, oh, this student said something with we object to, back to wherever you came from. that seems to be patriot act, sort of post-9/11 fervor is. we did a lot of free speech similarities, problems, we regretted it, so let's be

careful there. howard: yeah. and, of course, it might be opinions on something else. liz claman and robby soave, thanks so much for joining us. next on "mediabuzz," few people have heard of mike johnson, but the media are already portraying him as an extreme conservative. stay with us. ♪ my brain. so i choose new neuriva ultra. unlike some others, it supports 7 brain health indicators, including mental alertness from one serving. to help keep me sharp. try new neuriva ultra. think bigger.

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howard: three weeks of republican chaos is finally over after the party's third nominee as house speaker, tom emmer, pulledded out just four hours later, its fourth nominee, little known louisiana congressman mike johnson won the job without a single dissenting vote. >> the hour is late, the crisis is great, and america, we hear you. >> 92% rating from the american conservative union, 92% rating from the nra, backed by former president donald trump. johnson is a huge proponent of decentralizing our federal government. >> i hope they send him out on the campaign trail, because his

views on abortion are way outside the mainstream of republican political thought. his views on democracy, again to the right of republican voters. his views on foreign policy, to the right of the republican voter. what were they thinking? >> mike johnson! i've never heard of him. [laughter] he's from louisiana. we had to google him. apparently, everyone likes him, okay? nice glasses, good voice is, well dressed. we're going to give him a shot. >> now, with speaker mike johnson, they've got the real, pure thing. a coup organizer, the full backing of donald trump himself. howard: joining us now from charlottesville, olivia beavers who covers congress for "politico." how -- how did this obscure back bencher win the speaker's job when the three previous nominees were shot down? >> howie, it's actually just as you laid out, he was obscure. he's someone that republicans knew pretty widely. he was in leadership in the number seven position, and he

used to be chairman of the republican study committee which is basically the largest republican group on capitol hill. and so he's had relations for a long time, but he's been strategic in terms of how he's sort of positioned himself for a moment hike this. he was never running against other colleagues like tom emmer and steve scalise, so he didn't sort of have some of these underlying bad blood feuds. howard: yeah. >> and he's been working sort of on keeping favor with the right because he wasn't speaker, he was able to take some of those convenients that other -- votes that other members of leadership were not able to do. so he had a different kind of record. so as you were laying out here, he might seem like he was taking a more stringent, lean right record -- howard: well, we'll get into that. >> -- but he also -- go ahead. howard: he also had the backing of donald trumps which is -- trump, which is not insignificant. mike johnson spoke briefly to reporters after winning the

election as speaker. let's take a look. >> reporter: speaker johnson, you helped lead the effort toss overturn the 2020 -- [background sounds] [inaudible conversations] >> next question. howard: shut up? republican lawmakers booing and shutting down an abc reporter? didn't she ask a legitimate question? >> she did. and, you know, that's a question that we're still trying to ask speaker johnson, does he have -- does he hold the same views he did when e he was pushing sort of to push the argument that you could vote not to certify joe biden's electoral win. but it's something he sidestepped, and he's going to keep getting that question until he answers. i've seen it since, but he didn't take questions when he came outside on the capitol stepses and spoke to reporters as well. he didn't take questions. howard: yeah. he did talk to sean hannity the other night and, you know, the media have really been ripping him. new york times headline, far

right gets its man of the house. also talking about his sort of strong language against abortion and same-sex marriage. hear how he handled the latter issue. >> on the marriage issue, no one has discussed that for as long as i can remember. but when five justices on the supreme court changed it, that became the law of the land. i'm a constitutionalal law attorney. i respect that and we move forward. howard: how much does this negative coverage affect him now that he's already speaker? >> i actually think it's par for the course. if you are coming from the position where no one knew who -- where you are, you're going to see all these things that you did in the past come back. and whether that's still your view or not, those are going to be included in news reports and presenting here is who this guy has been or is currently. howard: let me jump in, olivia, because we only is have time for one more which is that mike pence, when was on this program a few weeks ago, dropped out of the presidential campaign yesterday. your quick take. >> i think that this was something that we expected.

it just shows how donald trump has been still very powerful. it was, in any other sort of situation, a former vice president would have had a better shot, but donald trump was able to rise up and cut him down. howard: i think mike pence was always a long shot and that he didn't have support in either group, those who agreed with what he did on january 6th, not blocking the electoral college vote for joe biden, and those who didn't like what he did during the trump presidency. great to have you. hang for joining us while you were -- thank you for joining us while you were away. we'll see you soon. up next, john roberts on how average israelis are coping with the horrors of war and terrorism. ♪ ♪ get relief fast. only tylenol rapid release gels have laser drilled holes. they release medicine fast for fast pain relief. and now, get max strength topical pain relief precisely where you need it. with new tylenol precise.

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terrorists. >> what are people telling you when you speak to them, when they come into the shop to looked at a weapon? >> we want to protect ourself. we all need a gun. we are not believe what is happening in israel. we need to be safe. howard: here's my conversation with the co-anchor of "america reports." john roberts, welcome. >> good to be here, howie, it's been a while. howard: it has been. what struck you about talking to israelis at that gun shop and firing range? >> the resilience and the pragmatic nature of israelis to say we're facing this threat, and what are we going to do? are we going to be standing here as sitting ducks, or are we going to do something about it. a few of the people lived in the west bank, they lived in a settlement. it was a gated community, basically. but they said they just thought -- they always thought that the idf or that the police would be there, but when they saw what happened on october the 7th, that whole illusion for them was shattered.

they heard stories of people who were. in the kibbutz who were armed, who were able to fight off the terrorists and even eliminate a few of them. and they thought if we are potentially going to be in that situation where somebody comes in our home and tries to kill us, we wan to have the opportunity to defend ourselves. but it was just this sense of resignation that this is way life is, but the sense that, you know, as it says in the bible, if somebody comes to kill you, you have to kill them first k. and that's the life that they live there. howard: well, the illusion of safety, i think, was shattered for the whole country. israel is a small country, a bit over 9 million which is a bit more than new york city. it seems like everybody there knows someone or many people who have either been killed or wounded in this war. >> yeah. and there was one fella who really illuminated that. his maim was noam. he's a very, very wealthy the israeli. his father was a hero in the 1973 war. he was a pilot who was hot down

over syria with. he was actually shot down just in the transition into israel, but he died being tortured by the syrians. so he has a very well known family. but he has a son who had a friend who was always the smallest kid, smallest kid in his neighborhood, smallest kid in the school, decided that he was really going to make something of himself. so he took up accurate the city, he became the israeli karate champion, and then he became a member of the shy ya tet 13 which is the israeli version of the navy seals. and he was at one of the kibbutzes on october 7th fighting back against hamas. he single-handedly took out 13 of the terrorists before he was shot in the head and killed. howard: as the war drags on, is this a danger the media will increasingly focus on the humanitarian crisis in gaza -- important story, no question about it -- but that the slawtion slaughter and brutalization and desecration of 1400 israelis that started this

war will start to fade? >> unfortunately, that's the natural evolution of the news cycle. and it's the also this idea of a david and goliath story, that israel is the goliath and the gazans are david, and they're being oppressed by the israelis and indiscriminate bombing even though the idf tries to the best of its ability to limit civilian casualties. and i think that story was illustrated as well on friday, because there was an attack against an apartment building, civilian apartment building in tel aviv by a hamas rocket. was there any outrage expressed by the united nations at the indiscriminate targets of -- targeting of civilians in israel? no. the it's all become the idf is now targeting gaza to the degree that civilians are getting killed. the only casual the city numbers we get are are from the gaza health ministry which is the hamas health ministry, and even president biden said the other day he doesn't believe hamas' numbers. howard: so given that there are incoming rocket is the and given

that the schools are closed, people are trying to live normal lives, but is that really possible? >> you know, they are trying to live normal lives as much as you can when most everything is closed. school is closed, sirens are going off all night and all day, people are running to shelters. and that's one of the reasons why most of the commerce in israel is shut down. because if you had a lot of people congregating in a store or in a restaurant and the sirens go off and people couldn't get out the door, that's going to endanger life and limb. we went to the western wall, there were maybe 50 people there, and it was mostly just very orthodox jews who were there. so people are kind of staying indoors, hoping for the best but expecting the worst. howard: hoping for the worst, expecting -- hoping for the best, expecting the worst. john roberts, thank you very much for joining us. ahead, chris christie on his struggles in the presidential race, but after the break with,

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many times that the widespread allegations were baseless. the former president isn't buying it. >> i've poken to mark meadows many, many times over the years, and he strong. ly believed the election was rigged. now, of course, deranged jack smith and the prosecutors that go after somebody for years, and they say, look, here's the story, we'll give you -- howard: and in the georgia election fraud case, jenna elliss, who had aggressively defended trump on television, took a plea bargain, no jail time, and said she had contributed to false statements about the election. >> if i knew then what i know now, i would have declined to represent donald trump in these post-election challenges. i look back on this whole experience with deep remorse. howard: joining us now from new york, rich lowry, editor-in-chief of national review. so the media are portraying this as a huge setback for donald trump. jenna ellis, sidney the powell all taking plea bargains, but

would they have firsthand knowledge of presidential wrongdoing? >> the walls are closing in, howie. i know you've never heard that before, maybe now more here than in the mueller case because now we actually have a criminal trial. i would make a distinction. in georgia these pleas, they're not to the main offense, this big rico charge, and my colleague andy mccarthy has pointed out may be a sign of weakness for fani willis' case because usually when you get guilty pleas, you get them on the big thing, and instead it's false filings and this stupid scheme to access voting data in one spot in georgia. so i'm not sure how many, in of those pleas are. the meadows story, potentially, is a big deal. but, you know, after years of this, i have the same attitude, the old cliche about your advertising budge, you know? i i know you're wasting half of your advertising budget, i just don't know what half. some of them prove out, so it'll

matter a lot whether abc news is correct about this. but my attitude is extreme skepticism. i want to see the transcripts, you know? when i can read them for myself and the nuances of what he said and didn't say, then i can tell you, but i'm holding my fire guyed on any news report -- fire based on any news report. howard: mark meadows' lawyer says the the abc report is largely inaccurate, but he won't say which part, which means he did get immunity, and since he was chief of staff, i don't think the media are hyping this. but most media organizations have not been able to match this story. so special counsel jack smith in a court filing said trump was trying to send an unmistakeable and threatening message to meadows. what the former president said was only weaklings and cowards would make a deal, that he doesn't think meadows would, but who knows. >> yeah. these gag orders and the one in the jack smith case has been reversed for now, i think

they're just completely outrageous. these are cases involving inherent political matters, involving a guy who's a leading candidate for president of the united states. so the idea that you have a special counsel urging the judge who's going the make these orders that are beginning to closely draw lines on what he can and can't say about these things is crazy. just as she had to have the caveat in that partial order now suspended saying, oh, by the way, you can criticize the justice department of the sitting administration. if any judge has to stipulate that in an order, root and branch is a mistake. howard: and, of course, he is running for president and is by far the leading republican candidate. so trump spent part of this week at the manhattan the courthouse where the civil trial is taking place. and michael cohen was testifying, his former lawyer and, quote, fixer. let's roll that. >> he's a proven liar, as you know. he's a felon, served a lot of time for lying. >> this is not about donald trump versus michael cohen or

michael cohen versus donald trump. this is about accountability, plain and simple. howard: so what's your take on the new york judge fining trump $10,000 for ripping the partisan judge himself, and he said the person sitting next to him, the judge concluded it was his law clerk, trump said, hey, i was talking about michael cohen. >> yeah. i don't know whether trump was really talking about cohen. i think he was probably talk about the clerk, but idea that he can't criticize the clerk, trump's defense made a motion that asked that the judge and the clerk stop rolling their eyes during their cross-examination of michael cohen. this judge clearly has an agenda, and trump should be able to say it including criticizing the clerk. and it's not as though it's a jury trial, it's not, you know, he's not going to influence anyone who's going to make a judgment on anyone except judge who's already said he's guilty and a bad guy. howard: i think he was talking about michael cohen, that's the whole reason he was there. let me play this clip where donald trump raises, not for the

first time, the possibility of going to prison. >> i don't mind being nelson mandela, because i'm doing it for a reason. we've got to save our country from these fascists, these lunatics that we're dealing with. howard: i think maga republicans dismiss all of this as political persecution, but interesting that he is bringing up nelson mandela. >> i don't think he really wants to be nelson mandela, i be he's benefiting from these cases because he's showing strength in how he's pushing back. and it's just amazing, we have a republican primary going on, and a lot of days it's possible to forget it's actually happening -- howard: it really is. >> -- what we're all focus focused on is this big episode of law and order -- howard: well put. all right. we've got to go. rich lowry, thanks very much. still to come, chris christie on the 2024 race and why he's so far behind donald trump. ♪ ♪ so i choose new neuriva ultra. unlike some others,

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howard: chris christie gets lots of tv air time, but is it paying off on the campaign trail? i spoke to the former new jersey governor from las vegas. chris christie, welcome. >> good to be here, howie. thanks for having me. howard: let's start with the georgia trial of donald trump and lots of co-defendants. won't his former lawyers, jenna ellis, sidney powell, have credibility problems because they zit cysted they were incident -- insisted they were incident and now say they committed crimes related to the election fraud? >> i don't think that creates much of a credibility problem, howie. that's what happens in every criminal trial where you have multiple co-defendants. everyone starts by pleading not guilty, and then as the trial becomes closer, they realize the reality of their situation which is they are guilty, and then they look to plead. so, look, these are three

lawyers that donald trump -- ken cheseboro, jenna ellis, sidney powell -- these are folks that donald trump himself selected to have as part of his legal team, sent out social media posts saying they were an amazing legal team. i guarantee you now he'll throw every one of them under the bus, because that's what he does. howard: you argue that republicans eventually come to recognize the depth of trump's legal problems, but maga voters are absolutely convinced that he's being persecuted, and they don't trust the media who say otherwise. >> well, that's why we have to be out here making the case, howie, you know? and folks are going to see, whether you believe he's being persecuted or not, there's two things hard not in dispute. he is being prosecuted for these crimes, and those prosecutions are going to be the focus of the fall election if he's nominee and not joe biden, which is what it should be for our party. and secondly, he doesn't dispute

the conduct. he did what they're saying he did. he just says because he's donald trump and he's president of the united states, he's entitled to do whatever the heck he wants. he was a president, not a dictator or a king. howard: you've been honest enough to the say that president biden has done well in backing israel against the hamas terrorists. anything you'd do differently particularly with the growing humanitarian crisis in gaza? >> quell, first off -- well, first off, i would have done things differently in the leadup to it, howie. by joe biden perpetually going after iran, begging for some kind of agreement on nuclear arms and then freeing up $6 billion of money which he's now refrozen, but those signals are bad signals. and those signals allowed iran to go to hamas and say now might be a good time for us to take off after israel. there are three factors, howie, that we should be considering here and that we should ask israel to consider. one, israel has an absolute

obligation and right to protect its territorial integrity and to to protect the lives and the safety of its citizens. two, they have an absolute right to try to degrade hamas' capability to ever do this again. but, three, the israelis have to make sure they understand that their long-term goal needs to be to continue to make agreements with other arab nations in order to isolate iran, hamas and hezbollah. so let's not do anything that would make that impossible to do. howard: governor, you get a lot of tv exposure, but you're still stuck in single digits in the polls. in fact, in the key state of new hampshire, you're down 36 points to donald trump. does that indicate your strategy isn't working? >> no, howie, it doesn't. what it tells you is, first of all, i think that 36-point margin is way wrong given our own internal polling ask and other public polling i've seen. we're going to take him on in new hampshire and in south carolina. we're going to take him on hard

in both places. we're now in the fourth quarter, howie, of 2023. that fourth quarter's not only the most important quarter in football, it's going to be the most important quarter in getting this done against donald trump. we're telling the truth, howie. the truth matters. and his conduct is unacceptable, and he would be a losing presidential candidate for us. how much more losing are we going to put up with and the damage that it does to our country by having the democrats in charge and joe biden and kamala harris in the white house? i say enough's enough. it's time to move on are from donald trump. howard: just briefly, last time we spoke you said that if trump didn't debate, you would follow him ar -- around the country and force him to engage. you tried that the other day in new hampshire, and security wouldn't let you enter the building. are you going to abandon this plan? >> no, howie. we're going to look to continue to chase around. look, he's a coward. imagine this, he closed a public building, the statehouse in

concord, new hampshire, and only allowed his invited guests in because all he could take are people clapping and kissing his rear end in public. well, we'll find him eventually, howie. and when we do, we'll confront him. he can't avoid us forever, and i don't think the american people want a coward sitting behind the resolute desk the oval office. howard: chris christie, thanks very much for joining us. >> howie, thanks for having me. always good to be with you. howard: same here. that's it for this edition of "mediabuzz." i'm howard kurtz. happy halloween. subscribe to media buzz meter, we've had lots of downloads and kind of a community, so i hope you'll join. we will continue to cover the war, i think, unfortunately, for quite a long time. and the house is now back in action. so we'll be covering that as a well. we're back here next sunday with the only media analysis show on national television. ♪

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