bloodthirsty venezuelan gang, trendy aragua has moved its headquarters right across the street from the border town of el paso. if you thought the gang wars in the 80s with the jamaicans, the colombians, the neckties was bad. these guys are making deals with ms. 13. and you've got the chinese triads, the major partner, a message in a bottle found on the sand on the new jersey shore. could be the oldest ever message in a bottle. they think it was thrown into the water in 1876, there was a handwritten note. my favorite part. they uncorked it and opened it. and the folks said it smelled so bad they weren't prepared. it was the bay times a million. so let that settle you tonight. that does it for us. we'll see you next weekend. life, liberty and levin starts right now .

this week, the secretary of defense rescinded the plea deal that would have spared the nine over 11 plotters the death penalty. president biden asked him to do that. this was a

decision made by the secretary of defense. it was an independent decision by him, certainly within his authorities, as in the chain of command at the defense department. well, the administration had a hard time defending it this week. i want to play for you some sound here. we're going to talk to one of the families of the victims coming up here in 30 minutes. as as you can best assume. yeah they are not happy. no, of course not. and i certainly we, you know, we recognize and understand the concerns that they've expressed. our hearts go out to the families who love, who lost a loved one. we are determined to make sure that they get justice. these families get justice. so is the president willing to let these terrorists escape the harshest penalty in this system of justice, and let that be part of his legacy? again, this was a decision made by a convening authority in the military chain of command, an independent convening authority, secretary of defense, secretary of defense has the authority to change the delegation of that of that authority to the convening

authority. i know that sounds kind of complicated, but he has the authority to do that. he did this on his own. president, weigh in this was a decision made by the secretary of defense. i didn't hear an answer. okay. on the topic of consequences, a lesser plea for these plotters might have sent a message of weakness to us enemies. will the us send a similar message about consequences to russia after the historic prisoner exchange this week? i think we already have. we already got designation on russia. we tell americans not to go to russia. we have enacted sanctions using the levinson act. we'll do that again. and of course, we're we're trying to make people publicly aware of the risks of traveling to certain countries around the world, but make no apologies. we will make no apologies about bringing innocent people home. far better to have, those folks home than rotting in a russian jail for crimes they didn't commit. so no apologies about making this deal. and for all the arguments about whether it's good or bad. the previous administration did, it to twice with iran, with turkey, with the houthis. i mean, this is

what tough this is. these are the tough decisions that administrations have to make. finally, before we let you go, john, the president's in active talks to bring marc fogel home. has he reached out to marc's family this week? have they spoken? i don't have a conversation specifically between the president and the fogel family, but the state department i know has been in touch with the fogel family in the wake of this deal, and i can assure them, as we have assured them, marc, was we were trying to get marc to be a part of this deal, try to uncouple occasions, and the russians just weren't biting. doesn't mean we're giving up. and every time you do one of these deals, jackie, you learn, you get a little knowledge of the perspective of the other side. we're going to use that knowledge to see what we can do to get marc home where he belongs. john, thank you so much for being here. admiral john kirby, appreciate it a pleasure. thanks. joining us now is south carolina senator lindsey graham. senator, thank you so much for being here. senator. thank you. president trump reacted to this prisoner exchange at his rally last night. listen to this. i'd like to congratulate vladimir putin for having made yet another

great deal. did you see the deal we made? now, look, we want to get people in. you know, we got 59 hostages. i never paid anything. they released some of the greatest killers anywhere in the world, some of the most evil killers. they got. senator, do you believe that this deal increased putin's leverage over the west? oh, absolutely. i mean, we've got a cycle here. you have trumped up charges against americans. you accuse them of things they didn't do. you put them in jail, and you only release them when we have to release russian spies and killers. yeah, this cycle needs to stop. absolutely. and this, you know, all i can say is i don't think russia would invaded ukraine on trump's watch. and i don't think we'd have the mideast on fire if trump were still president. iran is running wild. so the source of all these problems is weakness. people believe america is weak and they're taking advantage of us. senator, in october of 2020,

though, trump facilitated the release of 250 houthi rebels from oman in exchange for two americans and the remains of a third that were held in yemen by iranian backed militants. so how is that any different than what president biden did this week? well, what we've done is we've released killers and thugs all over the world, and western custody, and we've, you know, russia charges americans with crimes they didn't commit, foreign nationals of crimes. they didn't commit. they asked for their people to be released who were spies and thugs and killers is completely different. so what i would say about the houthis when president trump was president, not one missile was fired at american ships in the red sea. when trump was president. israel was not attacked, killing more jews than any time since the holocaust, when president trump was president. russia did not invade ukraine

when president trump was president, you didn't have enough fentanyl coming across the border to kill everybody in the entire world. there's a lot of differences between the trump presidency, biden and harris. well, senator, more broadly, how does this prisoner swap affect the war in ukraine? because there's been somewhat of a stir in kyiv that the complex negotiations between russia and the west show that they can get things done, and that might have some consequences for their country, which is surviving on borrowed money or donated money. and also weapons. so what does this mean for ukraine? i think the best thing for ukraine is for them to continue to resist the russian invasion. the weapons were sending them. they're using to good effect at the end of the day, i think the iranians see this as yet another sign of weakness. the more thugs like putin get rewarded for doing bad things, the more bad things you will get. so i'm worried that the

iranians and the chinese are watching, making all of our enemies more provocative, not less. the white house touted the importance of diplomacy and alliances in making this prisoner exchange happen. listen to this. i would say that if you had not had joe biden sitting in the oval office, i don't think this would have happened. president trump has been skeptical about the value of nato. are there and there. i agree with, though, senator, that that there are concerns that president trump might even withdraw the us from nato. is this a time for president trump to make clear what his nato policy is? well, he had four years as president and nato contributed more to the common defense than any time since the founding of nato. here's what nato should understand about a second trump term. you better pay your fair share. it's not unfair to have nato contribute more. 2% is not unreasonable. he's going to insist they do

more. but this all started when we withdrew from afghanistan. that set in motion a reign of terror on this planet. and kamala harris said publicly on camera she was the last person in the room with president biden before he decided to withdraw all forces from afghanistan. if that is true, and she encouraged him to withdraw, she should never be in another room again making an important decision because she doesn't know what she's doing. senator, i want to get to one other topic before we run out of time. president trump has raised some incendiary questions about the vice president's racial identity. he reposted an image of her birth certificate on truth social this week after a lot of criticism for this comment, listen here. she was always of indian heritage, and she was only promoting indian heritage. i didn't know she was black until a number of years ago when she happened to turn black, and now she wants to be known as black. so i don't know, is she indian or is she

black? she is. doesn't this kind of language alienate millions of black voters, including from your state? yeah. you know, 30% of my state is african american. i nikki haley is of indian heritage, and one of her children married an african american clemson football player. so here's what i would say to president trump. the problem i have with kamala harris is not her heritage. it's her judgment. she has been wrong about everything. when she tried to explain what she would do about inflation and in the coming upcoming recession, it made no sense. it's gibberish. she's been in the witness protection program. nobody will ask her a hard question every day. we're talking about her heritage and not her terrible, dangerous liberal record. throughout her entire political life is a good day for her and a bad day for us. so i would encourage president trump to prosecute the case against kamala harris's bad judgment. it

doesn't seem that he's received that message yet. i mean, he had an introductory speaker last night sort of double down on this conversation. would you advise that he just stopped talking about that? i think, mr. president, this is your election to lose. it's important you win to reset a broken border and get the world in good order. the american people are looking to have their problems solved. i think your presidency was was an incredible presidency for national security and prosperity. as to georgia, georgia is there for the taking. i think governor kemp was a great governor, lowering taxes, less regulation. i think if you voted for kemp and you want to vote for harris, that makes no sense. i'm hoping that president trump and governor kemp can repair the damage to win georgia a state. if we win, we're going to go that. we're well on our way to winning 270 electoral votes. if we lose georgia, it could be a very long night. so let's win this election. how about that? let's win an election we can't afford to lose. thank you, senator

lindsey graham, very much. appreciate your time this morning. thank you. well, kamala harris is getting ready to name her running mate and tour the battleground states to make her case for the white house. we'll get reaction from democratic senator chris murph. on fox news sunday is sponsored by charles schwab. own your tomorrow. 48% of americans don't get enough magnesium, which is vital for bone, nerve, and muscle health. i recommend qanon magnesium glycinate. it's formulated for high absorption and is gentle on the stomach. qunol the brand i trust sleep more deeply and wake up rejuvenated. purple mattresses exclusive gelflex grid draws away heat, relieves pressure and instantly adapts sleep better live purple visit purple.com or store near you today. want the effects of viagra but faster? meet ro sparks. they contain sildenafil and tadalafil, but sparks dissolve under the tongue.

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call (800) 583-4943. we've got to critically reexamine ice. probably think about starting from scratch. i am prepared to get rid of the filibuster to pass a green new deal. there's no question i'm in favor of banning fracking, and i'm actually feel very strongly about this is that we need to have medicare for all. just a sampling of past takes from presumptive democratic presidential nominee kamala harris that she is said to have

changed her stance on the current vice president's views coming under a microscope now that she leads the ticket. joining me now, connecticut democratic senator chris murphy. senator, thank you for being here. yeah, of course, appreciate it. the vice president hasn't held any press conferences or done any interviews since the ticket changed, but her team has been putting out word through the media that she's not as liberal as she once was. the new york times writes. in addition to changing her position on fracking, campaign officials said she now backed the biden administration's budget request for increased border funding. funding for border enforcement no longer supported a single payer health insurance program, and echoed mr. biden's call for banning assault weapons, but not a requirement to sell them to the federal government. why are we hearing this from anonymous officials instead of from her directly? well, first of all, kamala harris has always been for border security. and the fact of the matter is, this campaign is going to involve an enormously important contrast between the biden-harris administration,

which has pushed for bipartisan border security legislation that would fix the problems at the border. and donald trump, who killed that bipartisan deal today, border crossings are lower at the southwest border than they were at the end of the trump presidency. there is a contrast between democrats kamala harris, who's serious about border security, and republicans who are not now on the question of fracking. fracking can be done a lot more safely today than it could have been done four years or eight years ago. and so i can't speak for the vice president, but everybody should be open to new information that would educate your positions. there's also a reality on drilling and fossil fuel exploration. we're actually doing more drilling, more fossil fuel exploration today than during the trump administration. and we've had $40 billion of investment in clean energy. so kamala harris and joe biden have shown that you can continue to exploit american natural resources while increasing investment in clean energy. donald trump said he wanted to drill, but he was terrible at it. let's go back to the border because you

brought it up and you have tried to distance the vice president from this administration's greatest vulnerability, which is the border. some democrats have tried to minimize her role in addressing the crisis. but you told the washington examiner this week, kamala harris was given a job to reduce migration from central america. and she did it incredibly well, stunningly well. but the numbers do show a different picture there. 4.31 million migrants from these countries specifically that crossed into the us since 2021. it is up 140% from trump's term, 34% from the obama years. how is that? stunningly well. so i'm squinting to read your figures, but the figures i have seen show that from the for the three northern triangle countries that kamala harris was put in charge of stemming migration from migration has dropped by 50 to 60% from those countries. what has increased over the course of the term because it started so high? well, it started so high, in part because of a series of crises that unfolded during the trump administration. what drove the increase in migration was in part, huge increased

travel from a country like venezuela, which was plunged into economic crisis because of donald trump's policies. kamala harris was given a important but discreet task. she was able to dramatically reduce migration from those countries and, again, apples to apples crossings at the southwest border are lower today than they were at the end of the trump administration. you can talk for a long time about venezuela, but i want to talk to you about the supreme court reform proposal this week. the white house said that they were open to eliminating the filibuster to get this across. listen to what they said here. these past saying eliminating the filibuster, then, i mean, look, we are he laid out the three ways that he wants to move forward. we're going to have, hopefully, a healthy debate with congress on what this is going to look, what this is going to look like. so the filibuster, i actually answered this, i said, we're going to have a healthy debate. we filibuster, we welcome, we welcome a healthy debate on how to move forward here. so the

topics of these proposals are one thing. it's been well discussed all week long. but the mechanism of how you do it really has not been explored. would you support eliminating the filibuster to make this happen? oh, absolutely. i mean, i can just speak for myself. i mean, i just don't think that democracy can allow for 40% of the united states senate to stand in the way of progress that's popular with the american public. 90% of the american public supports background checks on gun sales. we can't pass that in the united states senate, not because we can't get 50 united states senators, but because we can't get 60 united states senators. so there are many very popular proposals that we can't pass simply because of the filibuster. but let's talk for a second about the supreme court. the supreme court is captured by corporate interests today, and the american public knows that. so yes, we should also have a conversation about what to do about a supreme court. that is increasingly way out of step with the american public and, and, and with some

members that are brazenly corrupt. on what you just said, though, about eliminating the filibuster, your campaign surrogate, is this the position of the harris campaign as well? i'll let the harris campaign speak for themselves. all i know is that i want democracy to respond to the american public when they want something done. and right now, the filibuster often stands in the way of getting that done. i understand this because the president, his own commission to study this proposal, concluded that parties who use their majority, using their power to restructure independent institutions for political ends, can undermine the values of the constitution. this is directly from the commission. it says. in recent years, we've seen democratic governments regress or backslide with respect to judicial independence. democratic systems. most resistant to this prospect are those in which an electoral majority is not sufficient to change the fundamental structure of institutions, such as the courts. are you concerned that eliminating the filibuster would put the us on track for some of that

democratic backsliding that you mention? you mentioned venezuela. i mean, we have seen other countries slide into. backslide what's what's at the heart of any democracy? a majority of americans who elect leaders who agree with them getting what they want. and so i just think that when there's a majority of congress in favor of a policy, that policy should get to the president's desk. so, yes, kamala harris, kamala harris is probably going to run on a series of reforms to make democracy work better contrast that with donald trump, who has promised on day one to become a dictator, to suspend democratic norms running on the project 2025 platform that calls for turning the department of justice into an operation to hunt political opponents and to kill political dissent. so, yeah, i think there's going to be a clear contrast in this election between kamala harris, who's going to run on a platform to make democracy work better, and donald trump, who

is promising to suspend democracy. it was a very interesting conversation. senator, i appreciate your time. thank you very much for coming on. senator chris murphy. thank you. president biden proposing a supreme court overhaul shannon gets exclusive reaction from sitting supreme court justice neil gorsuch. but first, former president trump and his vp pick, j.d. vance, holding their first joint rally in georgia last night, the same week vice president harris was rallying voters in the crucial battleground state. our panel is here to discuss what the new fundraising numbers say about both campaigns. as the 2024 race heats. up next. anybody who owns property should worry about home title theft. there's no other crime that is so easy, so quick, and so lucrative. your home, your equity and your peace of mind can all be stolen in one fell swoop by home title thieves like matthew cox. nobody thinks that i can take their house. nobody thinks that. believe it or not, a single page document is all it takes to transfer proof of

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make it easier to drink less or to quit drinking, oh, isn't she wonderful? isn't she wonderful? no, she's not wonderful. so we have to work hard to define her. there's never been anybody like this. she is considered more left wing than crazy bernie sanders.

look at her. she's worse than bernie, and she happens to be really a low iq individual. she trump added. he's ready to debate harris, but not on abc. that was the network trump agreed to work with when he was running against president biden. harris says the abc event should stand her campaign, writing the vice president will be there one way or the other to take the opportunity to speak to a primetime national audience. we're happy to discuss further debates after the one both campaigns have already agreed to. at the rally. trump also launched multiple attacks on georgia's sitting republican governor, brian kemp. trump and kemp were once political allies, but they had a major falling out after the 2020 election. trump claims kemp should have done more to help him win the state. we also have the latest fundraising data from july, and it shows the harris campaign had a huge month with donors support, bringing in more than $300 million just in july, trump's team brought in $139 million, but he still has a sizable war

chest with more than $300 million cash on hand. donors will likely be paying attention to the vice president's running mate selection. and then those two candidates, they are getting ready to hit the trail together, jackie. they're going to be making stops in seven battleground states this week ahead. jackie. mark meredith reporting from atlanta. mark. thank you. we will discuss the latest on the race to the white house with our panel in a second. but first, shannon sat down with justice neil gorsuch at the supreme court and has his response to president biden's proposed reforms. you are not in a bubble here at the court. there are real world events happening. the president has proposed now, changes to the court supported appears by vice president, who looks like she's going to be the democratic nominee. how does the court feel about potential changes, term limits, ethics codes that are enforced by someone in ways that it isn't now? shannon, you're not going to be surprised that i'm not going to get into what is now a political issue during a presidential election year. i don't think that would be

helpful. i have one thought to add it is that the independent judiciary means what does it mean to you as an american? it means that when you're unpopular, you can get a fair hearing under the law and under the constitution. if you're in the majority, you don't need judges and juries to hear you and protect your rights. you're popular. it's there for the moments when the spotlight's on you, when the government's coming after you. and don't you want a ferociously independent judge and a jury of your peers to make those decisions? isn't that your right as an american? and so i just say, be careful. and it's time now for our sunday group, wall street journal. white house reporter catherine lucey, rich lowry, the editor in chief of national review, former biden white house special assistant and dnc convention consultant megan hayes. and bob cusack, editor

in chief of the hill. bob, i'll start with you on this supreme court reform. is this ever going to get through congress? no, it has no shot, especially when you look at the senate ma. and listen, even when democrats had huge majorities, they couldn't pass the tax increases that they wanted to. so this is an effort to fire up the left. that's going nowhere. rich, you would think that president trump would be sounding off about this, but we have seen headlines dominated by a lot of other issues this week, cat ladies among them, you wrote that jd vance is running like he is in a primary. is that the right approach, less than 100 days from the election? no. you know, and donald trump, three weeks after the first debate, had the best general election period he's ever had besides nearly being killed. that that aside, it was fantastic. and now the last week has been his worst week in this election. and there's always been this internal contest that just has to do with trump. will he do

more to try to remind people of what they liked about his time as president, or will he do more to remind them what they didn't like about how he conducted himself in the last week? it's definitely been the latter. megan, the vice president, is about to choose her running mate and head on a tour of battleground states. which pick would best help her with the map to get to 270. i think anybody who she picks, it's going to be a good governing partner to her, and it's going to make her feel comfortable in making these decisions will be the best pick for her. they all have pluses and minuses to them. i think, you know, obviously shapiro brings pennsylvania. mark kelly is in arizona, secretary pete has ties to michigan. like they all have something special to the map. but i think it's who is going to help her and who is going to help her with her message, and who is going to be a good governing partner for her. and that's what she's looking for. does that suggest that there are other states back in play outside of the blue wall? because that was the conventional understanding that, yeah, i think everything's i think the whole map is back in play. north carolina, i think everything is

back in play here because it's a different campaign than it was two weeks ago. i mean, they raised $200 million in like ten days. the enthusiasm that she has in her favor is massive right now. and then she's going to name her pick going into the convention. you know, the fall is going to be tough, but i think that right now she definitely has the momentum behind her. catherine, the campaign has announced some big names this week. david plouffe among the obama alums joining the harris team. there have been in the past tensions between biden loyalists and obama world. and i just wonder, do you foresee these obama era hires taking a new approach in the way that they shape her campaign versus how they engaged with the with the biden white house and the biden campaign? i think what you're seeing is the vice president trying to put her own stamp on this campaign. right. so she has kept, the biden team largely intact, jen o'malley dillon, the campaign chair, is still in place, still calling the shots, but she is bringing in extra people as consultants to help fill out her team. and

i think what you're going to see a lot of jackie is a shift, not necessarily in policy, but in some of the style and the message you're seeing them, they're a little more punchy, they're a little more in-your-face. they're definitely, you know, they're trying it. you see tim walz trying out this language about republicans being weird. i was at the atlanta rally this year and this this week, and it was just a very different tone from with harris there. you had megan the stallion performing. you had people dancing, you had people chanting lines back at her. and so i think you're just you're seeing some new messaging, some new energy almost out of time. but bob, i saw you nodding. yeah, i think her message is much better than biden's. biden would look backward and say, look at my accomplishments. which honestly, polls show that he's not getting a lot of credit for that. harris is about the future and what she's going to do, but at that same time, we need to know where she stands on a lot of these issues, and she's got to do a media interview soon because voters deserve to know that is it strange, rich, that we're hearing that she has abandoned her more liberal policies through anonymous sources in

the media? yeah, usually in a presidential campaign, you change your position on something and it's a matter of discussion and debate. for weeks, she's changed on about ten things without any explanation, and they apparently think they can run basically not a basement campaign, but a teleprompter campaign. maybe they'll do one big interview with a relatively safe journalist at some point. you know, lesley stahl on 60 minutes, but otherwise they clearly don't trust her unscripted and unscripted environments. they want her on, on prompter. do you think we'll see a sit down interview after the pick is announced? i mean, she has to do interviews. that's just part of running for president. i mean, that was one of the gripes about joe biden is he wasn't sitting down enough with media. that is just part of what what she's doing. i don't think she's hiding. i think she's capitalizing on the momentum. i think it's smart. also, people get their news now differently, and social media is a huge play and you see them playing into that. all right. stay with us. panel we'll be back with more. we saw emotional reunions this week as three americans returned home after a prisoner swap with russia. we'll discuss how that deal came to pass and why now. next. joe ho and a bottle of

rum. you know, i had a dead cat outside my house once, and it smells like that a little bit. this is a beer made by the monks. the greeks. once they discovered it, they turned it into a ceremony. the original cocktail is a sazerac. they gave a tea break to, like, re-energize coffee runs business discussion about philosophy. we had the best soda place. it was like a throwback. i thought you were there. are you? i'll tell you what. this is a very manly. i want you gone. oh, you charlatans, let's drink our faces are. by the way, he does take tips. at the end of the day, i never take two lumps before dinner. it ruins the appetite. but they have duis for, like, chariot people. can i give you some feedback? as a bartender? you suck. your

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the wrinkles. shaving marks, pigmentation. this is going to radically improve your skin. this has been a lifesaver. what about the show of support? it's yeah. overwhelming wall street journal reporter evan gershkovich struggling to find the words after he landed back in the united states after a prisoner swap with russia. we're back now with the panel. and, catherine, i just want to know what it was like for you and your colleagues behind the scenes when you learned that evan was coming home. i mean, this was such an emotional day, i think, for a lot of people. but really at the journal, we'd waited so long for this. so many people had worked privately and publicly so hard, and we're just and i think a lot of us had met his family. we're just so glad he's home. i mean, i really it was it was a very emotional day in the newsroom for, for a lot of a lot of people. did you have any advance notice that there was

hope there? i, i did not i mean, i think we were we were hopeful all along and we were really waiting for this. and obviously it's i mean, this there's now a lot of reporting about what went into this deal and how long it was and how complicated and how many countries and leaders it took. but, no, we're just really glad he's home. we are too, megan, the campaign has been trying to credit the vice president a bit for this as well. but the white house has said this week that this was joe biden. it was his relationships, his foreign policy acumen, and he seems to be leaning into his foreign policy chops. mac mapping out a legacy tour of sorts in the final months of his time in office, but is that also a signal that his presence on the campaign trail doesn't help harris so a couple of things. i think that the white house also did signal that the vp did have some impact here. i think she met with some folks at the munich security conference. so i do think she did play a role here. so i don't want to take

that away from them. it's not just the campaign. the white house did say that too. i don't think that the president being on the campaign trail hurts her. i think he will do exactly what is needed of him and what is asked of him. i do think that he is still, you know, the leader of the party. he's the elder statesman. i think he brings a lot to the table. i think a lot of democrats have a ton of respect for him. i do think just like in, you know, in 2016, when he was out for hillary, he was also, i think we went to 15 or 20 countries in 2016 at the end. so i think he will balance what he needs to balance here. and still, you know, he still is the president and still needs to be doing things. but i don't necessarily think his presence will hurt. i just don't think he will be on the trail with her as much as if he was running. so i you know, they'll be selective of when they use him. maybe not as much as he seemed to indicate when he piped in his voice to the campaign headquarters and said, i'll be right out there with her. rich, you know, harris has been breaking records on on fundraising. trump is trying to keep pace, at least with the ad spending in pennsylvania specifically. what does that tell you about this election? this race, and maybe even harris? she has obviously had a huge burst of

momentum. right? she's gone from a month ago. she was a subpar vice president, and now she's the second coming of barack obama, basically. and a lot of it has to do with just sheer media adulation. a lot of it is relief among democrats no longer having biden at the top of the ticket. but i think her case and this goes to what we were talking about earlier, is basically you guys maybe didn't like trump and biden very much. i'm a third force. i'm fresh and new. and what trump has to argue is no, no. she was an integral part of the administration that most americans consider failed. you know, the president's job approval rating is 40% or below for a reason, but it needs to be disciplined. it needs to be concentrated. and we haven't seen that yet. bob, the trump campaign at one point was talking about expanding the map to places like virginia. yeah, it seems like that's out of the question now that the democratic ticket has changed. so how do they reverse that trend? well, jd vance reportedly said they felt sucker punched when they made the switch. i don't think they were sucker punch so much by the switch. but how she went from 14 points underwater, according to harvard-harris to now even that's what surprised

the money coming in is unbelievable. and yes, trump was up in or at least tied in virginia and in states like minnesota and new hampshire. now we're back to a traditional map and the blue wall trump could switch to. he could, he could. there has been discussion that there's some buyer's remorse on jd vance among some republicans. i don't think he will. but if his numbers keep going down in september, you never know. all right. thank you panel. we will see you next sunday. up next, the rest of shannon's conversation with justice neil gorsuch at the supreme court about his new book that tracks the ballooning number of laws in the us. the book does talk about, you know, balance of power. there are different branches. they have different assignments. so how does an independent judiciary operate within some conflicts between the branches? hi, i'm mike huckabee, former governor of arkansas, and i'm here today to tell you about a hidden health crisis currently affecting

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powerful it cures and prevents fungal infections. plus it has aloe and tea tree oil to restore skin health, say goodbye to toe fungus with fungi, nail fox nations fox files shows that explore the mysteries of this world and beyond. is it possible that we're not alone? dive deep into conspiracy theories and uncover hidden truths. we will leave no stone unturned. fox files on fox nation stream the collection now. i have an army to build, a school to take ove, and girls to blackmail. and who are you? he's chuck bass. how can anyone not love new york? you're no one until you're talked about. gossip girl xo, xo. supreme court justice neil gorsuch is marking seven years on the bench and speaking out on what he believes is an overabundance of laws and regulations in the u.s. gorsuch was a trump appointee and was sworn in back in 2017. justice gorsuch authored a new book titled overruled the human toll

of too much law. shannon spent time with justice gorsuch at the nation's highest court this week to discuss the downside he sees in the volume of laws in this country. thank you for making time for us to talk about this new book, which, having read it, i think will be eye opening to the american people. the idea that so much of our conduct is overregulated and by default over criminalized in many cases, that apparently you and i are committing felonies every day without possibly even knowing it. i think that might be true. some professors say that there are now so many federal laws on the books, crimes that every american over the age of 18 commits one felony, a day, and that's happened in my lifetime, 1970 to present. we've seen maybe a doubling in the number of federal crimes on the books. and that just counts. what's in the code? the us code passed by congress. and that's just the tip of the iceberg, because federal agencies have been busy, too. the argument is that

we need those things to keep us safe, to regulate pollution and drugs and all kinds of things. so where did we cross the line from? valuable society, protecting regulation and laws to something that has blossomed into the situation where we can't even know that we've crossed the line. on the one hand, we need laws to keep us free and safe. on the other hand, if you have too many laws, you impair those same freedoms and our aspirations for equality too. because who can deal with a world with so much law? james madison said it's going to be the people with money and connections. and as a judge now for 18 years, i just came to see case after case in which ordinary americans just trying to live their lives, not hurt anybody, raise their families. we're just getting whacked by laws unexpectedly. it's not just the laws that are passed, but it's also the regulatory stuff that has given rise to critics will say, a fourth branch of government. i want to read a couple of things. you have from

the book. you say many criminal laws are not the direct product of elected representatives accountable to us. they're the handiwork of agency officials. you go on to say these days, federal agencies don't just write and enforce legally binding rules. often they act as prosecutor and judge, too. the irs has a hotline if you've got questions. i mean, you don't want to become a federal felon, right? on your you call them, you call them. and it turns out for a period of time, they were giving wrong answers about a third of the time. and then when asked, how come so many wrong answers, they said, well, there are. the irs code has just gotten so complex and there are so many new laws. there's been an explosion in our laws and it's new and it's different, and it's in our lifetimes. you say to that there are reasons that have driven us to this, some of them big societal changes. you say when trust in individual judgment, civic institutions and social norms fades. where else is there to look for answers but the law? you know, when alexis de tocqueville came

to this country in the 1830s, he said that unlike europe, where anything important was undertaken by a british lord or a french government, here it was ordinary americans coming together in their communities and making a difference. and those connections, those bonds, are essential for democracy, right? i have to trust you. you have to trust me. we may disagree. that's the whole point of democracy, is we vote, right? that's the engine of democracy is disagreement. but when we when we lose our trust in one another, when we lose our trust in ourselves and our own judgment, where do we turn? we turn to the state. we turn to laws. we turn sometimes to people very distant from our own homes. right? federalism gives way to nationalism. and instead of nationalism being our laws made in congress, it's often moved over to agencies with less responsiveness to the american people. but the book does talk about, you know, balance of power. there are different branches. they have different assignments. so how

does an independent judiciary operate within some conflicts between the branches? the answer is the constitution. and if it's in the constitution and the other two branches are infringing on it, your right to exercise your religion, your right to bear arms, your right to speak freely. i'm duty bound. i took an oath to uphold the constitution and you win. even though the government may not like it. when do i stay out? when the constitution doesn't say anything about the subject that's left for we the people to decide in their democratic processes. and that's most things in our daily lives, isn't it? well, you also talk about the issue of individualism, which is very american. it's very big in this country and how some of that may be sacrificed in giving over to this overregulation. we're about to celebrate the 250th anniversary of the declaration of independence. and you look at the promises in the declaration, and they're so profound, right? we are all created equal. we have

inalienable rights. they don't come from government. they belong to each of us. and government derives its just powers from the consent of the governed. we are the sovereign in this country, we the people. those are profound promises and we all want those promises to be realized more and more over time. and the questions i'm asking through the book, really through the stories of the people to whom it's dedicated. how are we doing that's that's kind of our report card that those three promises in the declaration. how are we scoring today? that's what it's about. so how do we solve the problems in the book? well, first of all, we have to learn how to trust one another, right? not everything needs to be solved by a distant government. sometimes we should remember what tocqueville talked about working with one another. and that means listening as well as speaking. that means learning how to lose as well as win. that means trusting the person with whom you disagree loves

this country every bit as much as you do. and my good friend steve breyer says, if i listen to almost anyone talk for long enough, i'm going to find something they say that we can agree on, and maybe we should start there. the book is a collection of fascinating, somewhat infuriating stories that i think real people that we should all know their stories and that it should spark a conversation about where we go from here. so best wishes with the book and thank you for your time. thank you shannon. overruled. is available tuesday wherever books are sold. that's it for today. thank you for joining us. i'm jackie heinrich. shannon bream is back next sunday. have a great week. we'll see you next. fox news sunday.