policy! find out if you're sitting on a goldmine. call coventry direct today at the number on your screen, or visit coventrydirect.com. we realize some home maintenance jobs aren't worth the risk. that's when we call leaffilter to protect our gutters. leaffilter's patented filter technology keeps debris out of your gutters for good, guaranteed. call 833 leaffilter or visit leaffilter.com >> john: a live look at the federal courthouse in los angeles where there has been a surprise twist in hunter biden's federal tax evasion case. his attorneys have entered a surprise plea, essentially avoiding a prolonged trial. that could have aired a lot of dirty laundry. the reversal came directly from his attorney, abbe lowell, right before jury selection began. with that, welcome to another 6.

>> sandra: what could happen? >> john: i'm john roberts in washington. wow, sandra. it just doesn't stop. nevery day it's new to us. >> john: i'm sandra smith in new york. we have a big hour for you. this case stems from a yearlong investigation. the president's son is charged with three felonies and six misdemeanors concerning $1.4 million in owed taxes that have since been paid. no statement yet from the first family, and kamala harris declined to speak to this moments ago, that we did just hear from karine jean-pierre. she is declining to comment specifically as well, although she said there will still not be a pardon by the president, john. >> john: yes, the answer that question is still a no, and as we pointed out, right up until it is a "yes." and president biden ignored questions from the press as he boarded marine one earlier. listen to this. >> mr. president, will you

commute your son's sentence? are you glad your son has pled in his case? >> john: yes, the dulcet sounds of the auxiliary power unit on a helicopter. we have fox team coverage all our with a deep bench of kerri urbahn, leo terrell, judge jeanine, jonathan turley, and andy mccarthy. >> sandra: looking forward to this. first a jonathan hunt live outside the federal courthouse were all lawyers are back in court now, including special counsel david weiss. jonathan, set it up for us. >> sandra, everybody is back in court and the session is do to get underway any moment now, with the prosecution offering their reaction to this sudden change in plea. we have an inclination that this might be an unusual day. when hunter biden arrived for the court hearing today, and

every time driven into an underground parking lot. today they showed up about 30 minutes before he arrived, cleared a path from the sidewalk to the courtroom doors, and hunter biden pulled up and walked in holding his wife melissa's hand, flanked by secret service agents, followed by one of his lead attorneys, abbe lowell. and then it was lowell who, at the start of proceedings today, dropped the bombshell that his client was changing his plea to guilty, but it is what is called an alford plea. that means the defendant, in this case hunter biden, except that the prosecution could prove that case on the basis of evidence, but yet still asserts their innocence. it is a curious kind of plea, one that legal experts will no doubt break down in a couple of minutes. but that was the bombshell, and one of the lead prosecutors told the judge at that point, this is

the first we are hearing about this. so they, the prosecution, were caught totally unawares. now they've had a couple of hours where court has been in recess and they have been able to consider their response to this. we assume that they have been in direct contact with the department of justice, and there is a scenario in which this kind of plea would have to be signed off on by the attorney general himself, merrick garland. we don't know at this point if it will go this high. in the words of one of the panel that you are about to have on, our esteemed legal editor kerri urbahn, "this is messy." that is the understatement of the day, i think. and then we have the question of, if this goes forward, there will be sentencing. on those three felonies and six misdemeanors, hunter biden could have faced up to 17 years in prison. president biden has been on the record as saying he will not pardon his son in either this case where the gun case that

he's already been convicted on, and he will not commute any sentence. as you mentioned at the top, karine jean-pierre was just on board air force one and was asked that. she said it is still a no. but as john roberts astutely observed, and politics it is always know until it is yes. sandra? sku and jonathan, it is john here. as we pointed out with you, kerri said it's going to messy. it could end up a sticky wicket, quoting some of the colloquialisms from your homeland. have you been able to pick up any rumblings of which way the doj is going to jump on this? >> no, john. to continue the cricket analogy, they got bolderred googly this morning, and unplayable ball. we are waiting for it right now. we have a couple in the court just to give you a lay of the land here. they are not allowed to have any

medication from either the courtroom or the media overflow room. they will step through the doors and send it to us immediately they get it. i see we are only a couple minutes into the session, nothing coming through as yet. the simple answer is, john, no, we have no idea at this point how prosecutors are going to respond where they were clearly caught unawares, shocked and surprised, and as i said before, any other word you want to look up in the thesaurus. this was a surprise and a shocker to any person concerned, except, it seems, for hunter biden's defense team. >> john: what was that cricket term again? >> a googly. it is a pitch, if you like. let's call it a pitch, but it is a ball bowled by a spinner which sort of spins, bounces into different directions. it's almost unplayable. a googly. wikipedia it.

>> john: well, that kind of sounds like this entire case. jonathan, i think that is an apt description. >> for sure. >> john: the spring and leo terrell, fox news contributor and civil rights attorney, and kerri urbahn, art laffer mention fox news legal editor leo, we are going to play that you are in old-time gramophone. we will lined you up and let you go. >> i will tell you right now, remember 13 months ago -- i think i was on harris faulkner's show, and i said the only way the sweetheart deal would be blocked would be from the judge. sandra and john, we can't look through this legal lens. it's all politics. if it weren't for the judge 13 months ago in delaware, if it weren't for those whistle-blowers, hunter biden would be off scot-free. let's make sure we understand this. this is a political trial. the department of justice, the person in charge is merrick garland. he works for joe biden. so if there is any notion that

this is not going to be resolved in a manner of a plea deal, somebody's being very naive. this is going to be resolved, joe biden is going to pardon his son, and the department of justice going to this jekyll and hyde position, they don't care. they're going to take their marching orders from their boss, who works for president biden. joe biden is no longer the most powerful men on the planet, he's not running for reelection, he has zero to lose. >> sandra: thank you for that. we are going to get jonathan back up here in just a moment, because kerri crossing the wires right now via reuters is at the justice department has opposed hunter's plea in this tax case. your reaction? >> i'm not surprised at all. in fact, i thought this would happen, actually, for a couple of reasons. one, doj does not like to be jerked around, and they certainly don't like to be surprised. that has happened, to use the analogy i can't even go into,

with the ball circling -- >> john: the googly. >> that's exactly what happened today. if you're asking for a deal of any kind, that's a very bad way to start on hunter's part. not surprised on that. the second reason why i'm not surprised is because the doj is trying to rehabilitate, i think, its reputation after that ridiculous plea deal the lifetime that they offered to hunter biden last year that was exposed by that judge. and because there are no political ramifications because joe biden is no longer the race, they had every reason to lean in here and be aggressive, in order to really retain some integrity in this case. for hunter biden to show off, spring this on them, and ask for an alford plea, which says that you have enough evidence to convict me but i'm not actually guilty, i just don't see the doj necessarily standing for that. >> sandra: sorry, kerri. the judge is jumping in here. >> look, the only thing the department of justice has any input on is whether or not he gets the alford plea. the alford plea is something

that makes the justice system look ridiculous. the public doesn't understand it, it doesn't make sense to them where a person says, i'm not really guilty, but if you present the evidence, you'll probably get a verdict of guilty. this defendant can plead guilty to every count of the indictment, the justice department has no say in that. any defendant can walk in and say that. the only issue is whether or not they are going to give him permission to do the alford plea. in the end, if that is the only thing the justice department has any control over, if the defendant says i want to plead to the whole indictment, then hunter biden is going to say, i'll plead to the whole indictment without the alford plea, because we all know how it's going to end. it's better for joe biden and hunter biden to not have to hear the evidence, and as they were trying to get joe out of the race for president, president, all of a sudden we saw

david weiss releasing more facts about money coming to hunter from a romanian oligarch in addition to all of the other money. so there was a squeeze that was going ahead by the justice department to get him out of the race, saying, for this trial, we will have evidence that will impact joe biden. but the only issue, and it is the only issue that the justice department has any say in, is whether or not he gets to plead the alford plea. which is, i'm not going to plead guilty, but you can find me guilty and sentenced me as such. he's going to go in and say, i'll plead to the indictment. sentence me. my father is going to pardon me. >> john: judge, do you think this was the doj calling his bluff? and do you think hunter biden will say, okay, forget the alford plea, i'm just going to plead guilty? or will he say, if the justice department says, look, we reject this plea and we are going to trial, he'll say, i'll meet you in court. which way do you think he's going to jump? >> i think he's got to plead

guilty. the bidens cannot afford that the last thing out in the last couple months of joe biden's presidency and his legacy is that, while he was vice president, money was going to his son. they don't want this. plus all the stuff about the prostitutes, the hookers, everybody's disgusted with the bidens. they want it over. they want it done. they asked for the alford thinking maybe they can get it, and they're not going to get it according to the justice department. so plead guilty, shut up, take your sentence and reverse it with a pardon. >> sandra: kerri, and more from you on what must be happening right now as we do get this word out of the courtroom. >> attorney general garland i think has been typically overly deferential to special counsel, and people have accepted that along the way. you hear comments from him like, the special counsel, it's up to them. they are independent, they do their thing. but at the end of the day the really tough decisions -- and i

would say this is one of them, because it is his boss' son whose fate is on the line right now -- those tough decisions belong to really one person and one person only, the attorney general of the united states. that's what you sign up for when you take that job and it is something bill barr would get criticized for. they would say he was too involved when he viewed it as, it's my job to do the tough things that other people don't have to. this is why i'm here. i'm very curious right now to know what conversations are going on behind the scenes, how much merrick garland is involved or not. certainly david weiss would be incredibly involved. but, again, doj -- i've said this for weeks now -- they were looking at this tax case, i think, as a way to rehabilitate the reputation after the disgrace of last summer with the plea deal. so as judge jeanine pointed out, they dumped a lot of information in a filing related to pay for play schemes, that the judge in this case admonish them for her and, hey, that's not what this is about.

it's about not paying taxes. but the reason they did that, as judge jeanine pointed out, show the american people what was going on. which obviously was very different than how they were approaching this case for years. >> john: leo, why do you think he walked this game right up to the judge's bench as opposed to weeks ago, saving the doj and the american taxpayer a lot of money and effort? by doing this, you just kind of ticked everybody off. >> you ticked everyone off, but this is politics. i just can't get that out of my head. let me talk about rehabilitating the department of justice, this is the department of justice that went after a republican candidate with charges all over the map. i mean, it is politics. it is politics. so why did hunter biden walk this up to the day of court? because his dad's president. his dad's president. judge jeanine and kerri said, he's going to get a pardon. what form of that pardon depends

on whether he accepts all the charges or the alford deal. the alford deal is dead. the bottom line is it's the same result as 13 months ago. he gets away with walking. for tax evasion, possibly other actions, and the gun charge, he gets a clean slate with a joe biden pardon. >> sandra: thank you very much for that, leo. kerri, stay with us. judge, stay with us. we are going to add jonathan turley to this discussion as we await more breaking news out of the courtroom there in los angeles. we'll be right back. now i have skyrizi. ♪ i've got places to go and i'm feeling free ♪ ♪ control of my crohn's means everything to me ♪ ♪ control is everything to me ♪ and now i'm back in the picture. feel significant symptom relief at 4 weeks with skyrizi, including less abdominal pain and fewer bowel movements. skyrizi helped visibly improve damage of the intestinal lining.

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john bunyan, jonathan. >> it's a very interesting development with the refusal of the alford plea. i would expect them to get the alford plea if they had pushed for this months ago. it is granted in cases. it is an exception in the sense that you need higher approval. but i actually think the reason it was turned down here is because of the timing. every indication is that the defense did not inform the prosecutors that they were going to change their plea. it was really very unusual. it is something that does not go over well with the prosecution. i'm a criminal defense attorney, and i would never have done that. even if i don't get along with the prosecution, i don't want to have this type of jump scare in the middle of the courtroom with the judge watching. i think that probably poisoned the well for the alford plea. i think that, months ago, if they had gone back to the table,

they probably could have secured the alford plea as part of a global agreement. they could not have handled this case worse, in my view. they have put hunter biden in the worst possible position. he will get very little benefit from his plea, because he has very little to trade at this point. when the plea deal collapsed in the delaware courtroom, his counsel famously declared "just rip it up." at the time i said, i've got to tell you, very few defense attorneys would have said that instead of going back to the table and trying to eke out the best you can get in a really bad case. instead they played hardball and forced both of these cases to go to trial, and according to the justice department, they did not engage in serious negotiations for a plea deal. that was in a prior filing by the justice department.

so i think timing is key here in terms of the denial of the alford plea. now, where we go from here is going to be rather interesting. the most likely thing is that the judge will ask the defendant, do you want to go without an alford plea? keep in mind, that alford plea, he was already complicating the situation by waiting so long. it minimized the benefits he would get. the alford plea would have minimized that further, because you are not accepting guilt. so he'll be asked, are you prepared to plead guilty and accept guilt? but that's going to lead to a curious moment. he would say, if he did plead guilty, this is the guy who just recently said "i don't want to plead guilty and i don't think i'm guilty." all of this is going rather wicked rather fast. >> john: judge, let's go to you for your judicial expertise, because a lot of folks at home might be thinking, what in the world is an alford plea anyway, and why would you ever accept

it? >> the alford plea, as i said, is something extremely unusual, and i was just thinking during my time as d.a. -- on average we had 40,000 cases a year. i can only remember one alford plea that i took, and i was involved in the plea negot negotiation. so it is very unusual, it doesn't instill confidence in the public, and it is something for which there's got to be a benefit. >> john: so what were the circumstances under which you accepted it? >> i don't recall what the circumstances were, but i think we needed that person in another case. there was a benefit to me that i was getting out of this. make no mistake, there is no benefit to the department of justice granting this alford plea. in the end, the department of justice has egg on its face. it has egg on its face from that plea deal they tried to carry through, where he would have

immunity, hunter would, in perpetuity, which was absurd. never done before. so now, if it is true, as jonathan says, and i have no reason to question, there was never even a discussion of the plea negotiation in any shape or form. you go into the trial, you go into the courtroom. the ambience in any courtroom where you got a jury waiting is very different. everyone is on their game and ready to go. you do not say, "halt, i want to plead guilty, but by the way, give me that alford plea, because i don't want to really admit to all the horrible things that i did." the justice department gains nothing by giving it to the defendant, and in the end, the defendant can plea or admit, if there were evidence presented, that the evidence would prove his guilt without saying he's guilty. that's what this is all about. department of justice would be crazy to do it, given how bad they look in this whole mess.

at the same time, in the end, it's not going to matter, because the bidens need to end this and end it quickly. >> sandra: to quote jonathan a moment ago, where this goes next is going to be r very interesti. jjump back in, leo. >> before the case starts, even before jury selection, the judge will ask both sides if you want to discuss anything before we start the jury proceeding. i just find it impossible to believe that the defense did not consult or talk with the other side and say, can we go in chambers for a few minutes? if this was a total surprise, the professor is absolutely right. i just have a hard time, sandra, excepting the fact that we are trying to analyze this case through the lens of legal analysis. we've got all this legal talent here, and we cannot ignore the fact that joe biden is the

president of the united states and hunter biden is the son of the president. >> john: kerri, to what leo was saying, the fact that there was no negotiation of any kind of a plea deal, he just walked into the courtroom and said, by the way, i want to plead guilty and it's got to be an alford plea, why play it that way? if you wanted a guilty plea and he wanted the best possible outcome, why would you not save the doj the trouble, save them the work, save the taxpayers the money, and negotiate the best deal you could possibly get? >> of course that would be the smart and wise thing to do, but i think hunter's team could think to themselves, doj screwed us over last summer when we thought we had this deal with them, and suddenly when the judge asked a couple questions it was all out the window. so why should we return the same courtesy to them? but she professor turley's point -- >> john: doth speaketh of revenge. [laughs] speak of the department of justice does not like to be surprised or jerked around, that

happening tenfold today and it's been happening for months. hunter biden showing up on capitol hill, all of these crazy dramatic p.r. stunts, judges don't like that kind of stuff. doj doesn't like that kind of stuff. in fact, it makes them double down and makes them hostile to your case. but this is how they've operated all along, and i guess they could say, we don't think the doj treated us fairly, either, so here we are. ct when you think about the waiting by so many happening inside that courtroom right nowe shot of joe biden arriving. we know we are about to get his big economic speech after former president donald trump donald trump just delivered his here in new york. biden will be speaking at 4:00 eastern time and covering that on the fox news channel. jonathan, tu, though, on what's happening inside that courthouse right now, do you imagine? >> the rejection of the alford plea sort of shifts that burden back to the defense. they have to decide whether they

are going to continue this. but they are sort of playing a game of chicken alone. there's nobody in the other car. that is a dangerous game of chicken, because the doj is just watching them. they have nothing to lose here. they have got a lead-pipe cinch of the case. it's very difficult for the defense to prevail. they tried this defense in delaware, and it was a spectacular failure, even with a favorable jury pool. so it's pretty hard to go in there and do your chest-pounding like you have in past hearings. "well, we just might go forward with the trial." at the department of justice says, we are okay either way. either way you are likely going to prison. so they will have to decide whether to go ahead and take a stray plea, but they've also just told this judge, i'm not particularly contrite. i'm willing to accept a guilty plea, i'm not willing to accept guilt.

so this whole thing seems contrived for the court, which is not going to help on sensing. if they go ahead and pursue a new plea deal after the first one collapsed, and who knows what negotiations went on, they could have avoided a number of things that they are about to collide with. one is they could have gotten a comprehensive plea, and that could have come with a recommended sentence. now he's going to go into sensing as a convicted person because of the gun charge, and he's going to have this messy record of taking this all the way up to trial. they have maximize the advocated caggravated circumstances and they don't have much in terms of mitigating circumstances when we look at sentencing. >> sandra: if you could all -- this is awesome, by the way. thanks to everybody for staying with us. if you could all just stand by, i believe we are going to add a

new voice into the picture here. >> john: we are. andy mccarthy will be joining us right after the break to talk more about this. is the defense trying to play the doj for fools here? how was the doj going to respond later on this afternoon? if hunter biden says okay, i'm guilty, throws himself on the mercy of the court, or does lowell convince the doj to go into plea negotiations? a lot to chew over with andy when we come back. stay wit ibh us. n iberogast bloating iberogast thanks to a unique combination of herbs, iberogast helps relieve six digestive symptoms to help you feel better. six digestive symptoms. the power of nature. iberogast.

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spew an explosive day in the los angeles courtroom. hunter biden was supposed to begin jury selection, and then instead said they wanted to enter a guilty plea, but it was the specific type of guilty plea to which the doj said, not gonna happen. jonathan hunt is live at the courthouse with the latest. what have you got? >> if it looks like i've got a case of the broadcast news flop sweats, it's because it's 100 degrees on the streets here in downtown l.a. today. it is likely even hotter, the

atmosphere in that courtroom right now, where prosecutors are laying out what we assume are the doj's objections to this plea. it started off as an odd day today, because hunter biden showed up and walked into court. he has not done that in any other of the hearings in this case. he's always been driven in by secret service into an underground parking garage. but today he walked in holding the hand of his wife, melissa, flanked by secret service agents, trailed by abbe lowell. then it was abbe lowell who dropped that bombshell in court, saying he was changing his plea to guilty, but it was this alford plea, whereby the defendant -- in this case, hunter biden, of course -- except that the prosecution could prove on the basis of evidence that he was guilty of these crimes, and the defendant, hunter biden, maintains his innocence. that sounds complete gobbledygook, i think, to a lot

of layman and our viewers, but it is a plea that is possible. we understand from the doj that it has been rejected. we are waiting right now for information from our producers inside the courtroom to confirm that is the case, that the prosecutors are laying out that they reject that plea. as soon as we get that information we will bring it to you. but clearly we are in an unknown stage of this trial now. we don't know where we will go from here, what the judge's reaction will be, and even if they do ultimately agree that he can enter this plea, they have to get to sentencing on those nine counts, including three felonies. he faces a potential 17 years in prison. would he be given anywhere near that or would it be far less than that? and in the background of all of this, john, is the question of whether president biden might pardon him or commute to the sentence. both in this case and in the gun

conviction that has already happened back in delaware. karine jean-pierre, the white house press secretary, speaking on air force one earlier today, said the answer to those -- will there be a pardon, let there be a commutation -- might still be know until it is yes. finally, john, check your inbox. i sent you the bbc sport definition of googly. >> john: love it. thank you so much. everybody knows there's no bigger cricket fan then me. jonathan, thank you. appreciate it. we will talk to you soon. >> sandra: he was not joking. it's 99 degrees outside that courthouse. let's add into the conversation andy mccarthy. your thoughts? thanks for joining us. >> i think today i like brush back pitched better than googly, but i think that's what happened this morning. i think basically the biden team decided to throw a high, hard one of the government. they really don't have much else. in the hope that they would say,

okay, fine, let's do it, let's get rid of it. i don't think there's much chance of that happening. if i am the government and i am the judge, i am really aggravated about this, because an alford plea, as i pointed out a number of times, is not something he defendant has a right to do. no one can stop you from doing that. but an alford plea, you want something from the government. you want them to allow you to plead guilty without having to admit guilt. that is a plea arrangement. if i'm the government, i am annoyed about it because i should've heard about it before you announced it in open court. but also because, in federal law -- and this is very different from a lot of state law -- the court is not supposed to be involved in plea negotiations. if i am the government, what i interpret this as is the possibility that hunter was trying to use the court as

leverage to pressure the government to permit the plea to happen. judges are busy guys and women. they have very heavy calendars. he may not want to try a 5 5-6-week case. they might decide it would be nice if the plea went away, and hunter's team may have been translating that they could get the judge to lean on the government to take the plea. my sense is that would not be a good calculation in this case, but it is at least something. it is improper under federal law and it's the kind of thing you're supposed to negotiate with the prosecutor beforehand. and the only right response to it is let's go to trial. if you want to plead guilty, no one can stop you from pleading guilty, but let's go to trial. >> john: on that point and expanding it, i have to say this is beginning to look like -- i don't know if it's ""hollywood squares,"" or the end of "love actually" where they keep going to more and more

little boxes. let's go to kerri on this. you used to work for the doj. the one thing i'm wondering -- we were talking about this off-camera -- if you want to enter a guilty plea, you would get into negotiations with the doj and cut some sort of a plea deal where you get the best possible outcome for yourself, and hunter biden's attorneys in the past have proven themselves to be quite astute at crafting plea deals as long as they can slide underneath the radar when it comes to the judge. but by pulling this move today,, you have eliminated the possibility of negotiating any kind of plea deal with the doj. so the only recourse you have left is to plead guilty outright, so yourself at the mercy of the court. >> the more you think about this, abbe lowell is a smart lawyer. i think everyone in washington, d.c., knows that. for the faculty to go in there and aggravate the doj and the judge, which i'm sure they have, there's no way that doj is happy about being jerked around like this all day. it's embarrassing for them. to be frank, it almost feels

like they are mocking them at this point. the only way they would have the luxury -- they being hunter biden's team -- of mocking the department of justice is if they knew their client was going to get pardoned. if you plead guilty to everything, talk about -- to your point, it's not just about plea negotiations, there is no chance for anything else to be dropped for a sentence to be reduced or something like that. so it kind of feels like they are burning everything down because they know they can, and that is quite something. >> sandra: judge, you and i were talking during the commercial break about bad bl blood. >> this is really about bad blood. you have the prosecution and abbe lowell, the defense, pretty much in cahoots trying to pull the wool over the judge's eyes, and engaging in the plea deal that gave immunity in perpetuity. they had to ultimately stand up and say, we have never done this before and the department of justice, who are now at odds with each other.

the department of justice is dropping all kinds of negative information in their delayed bill of particulars about hunter biden that impacts his father. and the fact that they are now at a point to where they are going in and getting the judge involved, as andy was saying, and something judges don't normally get involved in, they are saying, look, we've got the ace in the hole. i'm not talking to you, i'm not giving you any warning. i engaged in no plea negotiations because i don't need you anymore. i know what i've got at the end of this. so let me just see if i can get this in an alford. maybe they knew they would never get it, but at the end of the day what they will do is plead guilty. no one can stop them, because they get the pardon at the end. >> john: the consensus seems to me, among our panel of learned legal scholars, somewhere down the road, even though they say it won't happen, joe biden has whispered in the ear of hunter biden, i'll pardon you.

thank you so much for being with us. really appreciate it. >> sandra: thanks to all of you. new details emerging in yesterday shooting in georgia. the alleged shooter on the fbi's radar, we are learning, since 2023. what his father told georgia police when he was interviewed last year, and what it could mean for this case moving forward. new sensodyne clinical white provides 2 shades whiter teeth and 24/7 sensitivity protection. i think it's a great product. it's going to help a lot of patients. ♪ ♪ have you always had trouble losing weight and keeping it off? same. discover the power of wegovy®. ♪ ♪ with wegovy®, i lost 35 pounds. and some lost over 46 pounds. ♪ ♪ and i'm keeping the weight off. wegovy® helps you lose weight and keep it off. i'm reducing my risk. wegovy® is the only fda-approved weight-management medicine

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>> university of maryland global campus is a school for real life, one that values the successes you've already achieved. earn up to 90 undergraduate credits for relevant experience and get the support you need from your first day to graduation day and beyond. what will your next success be? >> john: we've got an update from the court in los angeles. remember, we were describing the whole process in cricket terms, a googly, a ball that spins and bounces all over the place. here is the latest bounce. you could also call it a knuckleball, too, in american terms. but here's the latest balance or twist and turn in this case. the discussion has been all about this plea deal called an alford plea deal that we have been talking about, and that the

doj has said it objects to an alford plea deal. in most cases we have understood that the doj needs to agree to this, and at a higher up at the department of justice has to sign off on this. well, how about this for the latest? at the end of the discussion just before the court ran into a 30 minute recess, the judge said the court doesn't need the government's agreement to accept an alford plea. so, sandra, it looks like hunter biden's attorney, abbe lowell, is pushing this point, trying to get the court to agree with it regardless of what the doj says or how they feel about it. >> sandra: you can only imagine the exchange is happening in that courtroom right now. of course we don't have those exact details, but as we get the updates we will continue to bring that to our viewers. >> john: so it looks like it's possible for the doj to say, we object to this. we are not going to sign off of it. but the judge says it doesn't matter what you think, i'm going to sign off on it, case closed.

we will see what happens this afternoon. >> sandra: will keep watching that. 3:10 p.m. eastern time, we are told the suspect behind yesterday's horrific school shooting in georgia that killed two students and two teacher is now facing felony murder charges. that shooter. this, as we learn more about the alleged gunman. officials say the 14 euros suspect had been on the fbi radar since last year for makin. he's now being charged with murder and will be tried as an adult. senior correspondent steve harrigan is live in winder, georgia, from the latest from there. what are relearning right now? >> sandra, you are right. he's going to face four felony murder charges, tried as an adult, the right now he's actually being held in a youth facility, in detention about 30 miles away from here. we are also getting some new details about exactly what went on during the shooting, and the fear that some of the teachers and students felt while those at least ten shots were being fired yesterday.

>> when teacher was shaking, and she was scared, hiding under a desk. everyone was telling us to shut off our phones and be really quiet, and that it would be okay. students were just holding onto each other and crying, really scared. >> we have seen students all afternoon here walking up with flowers to a memorial behind me, and we are learning also, too, as far as the radar goes, that this 14-year-old suspected shooter was really on police and law enforcement's radar for 15 months now. local law enforcement interviewed him and his father about one year ago after an online post threatened to shoot up a middle school, but they said they had no grounds to make any arrest after that interview. all county schools are going to be closed for the rest of the week, and the football game scheduled for friday night has been canceled. one of the defensive coaches was among those killed. sandra, back to you. >> sandra: absolutely so horrific and sad. steve harrigan, thank you very much.

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doing poorly as experts say immigrants illegal and legal or a big factor in the jobs data edward lawrence is live at the white house, no one better to decipher all of this forward for a spirit edward. >> yes, we have to peel the onion here john. immigrants coming to the past year legal and illegal have outpaced native board workers in getting jobs. the federal reserve is worried about the underlying strength of the job market in fact that bc and in the last jobs report out the talked about the amount of job openings. 62,000 people laid off in june. may be by an economics may be not have produced a strong enough jobs market listen to this. >> has the jobs growth significantly stalled in this country? >> a couple thanks i want to touch on, we are trying to get our economy back to normal and we are seeing signs of that. we are seeing data and the job market remains strong.

in wet mack when you look at immigration added to the mix it estimates seven in ten new migrants didn't come through normal channels here. the biden and harrison missed ration has try to increase the amount of work permits for these people but listen to the other side of this. >> we forget the liberal market is fundamentally a market. it abides by the lies of supply and demand. if you're going to increase supply industries massively increase applied -- laws of supply and demand it -- than you will depress wage growth because wages are the price in the labor market. metro vancouver now we have companies shrinking the amount of people they are hiring john. >> john: all right we look forward to the numbers tomorrow and see where they go. good to have you on board lawrence we'll be right back many were shocked to learn they've been paying 22% on their credit card balances. and if payments were late, as much as 30%. that's over three times the interest rate on a newday 100 va home loan. pay off high rate credit cards and other debt with a lower rate

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