♪ if. ♪ howard: it was a media bombshell, joe scarborough and mika brzezinski who spent years attacking donald trump on their

msnbc show breaking the news to their largely liberal audience. >> joe and i went to mar-a-lago to meet personally with president-elect trump. it was the first time we have seen him in seven years. >> we didn't see eye to eye on a lot of issues, and we told him so. >> what we did agree on was to restart communications. joe and i realized it's time to do manager different -- something different, and that starts with not only talking about donald trump, but also a talking with him. howard: look, what television hosts wouldn't want the talk to the incoming president of the united states, who praised the meeting? how would another four years as part of the resistance help anyone? this is what the morning show sounded like in the past. >> he is running to end american democracy as we know it. he's an authoritarian. this is not a reach, i could go back can and talk about nazi germany, and i do it, i do it without any concerns whatsoever. howard: yet the morning joe

cohosts were almost apologetic about their truce with trump. >> don't be mistaken, we're not here to defend or normalize donald trump. we're here to report on him. howard: but the married couple is getting bashed from the right as well as the left, even getting mocked by "the daily show." >> and for those asking why we would go speak to the president-elect during such fraught times, especially between us, i guess i would ask back, why wouldn't uh, because s hitler. [laughter] >> i don't think you need to sit down for 90 minutes at mar-a-lago and kiss his ring to be able to speak truth and to be able to cover a story. >> how does this call go, right? oh, hey, don. okay, so i'm sorry i called you a nazi for years and hitler, but you want to to grab coffee and maybe lunch? [laughter] howard: i'm sure declining ratings may be a factor, but

scarborough said he was happy. >> yesterday i saw for the first time what hamasive disconnect there was -- a massive disconnect there was between social media what and the real world because we were flooded with phone calls from people all day literally around the world, a very positive, very supportive, understand what you did, etc., etc. howard: and mika said this on "the daily beast" podcast -- >> i've been surprised at backlash, and the way i look at it is people are really scared. howard: trump now says he'll reach out even to hostile media outlets the to try and mend fences. i'm howard kurtz and this is "mediabuzz." ♪ howard: the matt gaetz melodrama is over. the former congressman pulled the plug on his nomination if as attorney general after president trump told him he didn't have the votes as the media kept reporting new developments and unidentified hacker obtained the

house earth think abouts committee files, abc broke the story that gaetz paid $10,000 to two women who received before the ethics panel about attending drug-fueled parties with gaetz. with such questionable notes as you wigs reimbursement, being awesome and a lawyer representing women accuse maits of sexual misconduct has been making the network rounds. >> she arrived at the party, he had sex with representative gaetz. within minutes of her arrival. later on when she was walking out to the pool area, she observed to her right representative gaetz having sex with her friend who was 17 at the time. howard: trump praised gaetz for avoiding the distraction he had, obviously, become. if if the things that the house ethics report were true would be under indictment, i would be under indictment, he said, and probably in a prison cell.

but, of course, they're false, he said, in a podcast. and trump named pam bondi, the former attorney general of florida, a career prosecutor and longtime loyalist as gaetz's replacement. >> remember, gaetz was investigated by biden's department of justice for two years and they didn't bring a single charge. it was about dirtying him up. now that gaetz is out, the doj's high-fiving. >> choosing matt gaetz for this job was a dumb move. it was an unforced error. >> this is an abrupt end to the frightening prospect of gaetz leading the department of justice. >> i think matt gaetz when saw that politically it was becoming untenable -- >> the the gates have fallen -- >> gaetz withdrew from the nomination 45 minutes after a cnn reporter called to say that cnn was going to report that the house ethics committee had told the reporter there was, in fact, a second alleged sexual encounter between gaetz and that 17-year-old girl back in 017.

2017. that's called statutory rape. howard: joining us now to analyze the coverage, ben domenech and leslie marshall. both are fox news contributors. ben, you eviscerated matt gaetz in "the spectator" calling him a sex-trafficking, drug-addicted piece of s with the ethics of a hobo. your reaction to the abrupt withdrawal. >> i apologize, howie, for you to have to a i void the the various insults -- howard: we cleaned it up a little bit. >> yeah. look, this was obviously a huge mistake, and one of the things i will say is donald trump is actually, if from my perspective and i realize that i am perhaps out of sync with people on this, i've actually been impressed with a lot of cabinet picks. i think that they're, you know, outsiders who have communications backgrounds that are going to be very useful to the president when they go into these roles.

matt gaetz is someone who is not just unqualified for this job, he's unqualified to be your babysitter. he is unqualified to do any kind of work for you. [laughter] he's unqualified to do any job. [laughter] this is a man who has proven himself time and again to be someone who is not qualified to trustworthy manner because of the past actions that he's done repeatedly and boasted about on the house floor to other members. howard: right. >> here's the thing, he is trying to spin this into some situation where it's the deep state that was lined up against me. it's a handful of members who were going to vote existence me in the senate. the simple -- against me in the senate. the simple fact is he was never going to get to 50. he wasn't even close to getting to 50, and that's why you drop out in this instance. that's why it was a mistake for donald trump to name him, and that's why i think we can just say bye bio. good luck. [laughter] god go with you.

howard: he's now on cameo selling recorded messages -- >> yeah, i might actually request a cameo from matt gaetz. [laughter] howard: all right. and conservatives were opposed, national review, new york post and "wall street journal" editorial page. leslie, was it the relentless media reporting that came out day after day after day which ultimately forced this to a situation where he just could not be confirmed by any stretch of the imagination? i'm still just reeling from the fact that i almost said admit eau to ben. [laughter] there's only one man on fox news, and i've been here 17 years, that shushed me on national television, that told me he'd tell me when he'd let me finish, and that was matt gaetz. it's a trifecta here. i think there was, you know, a sit-down by the guy who nominated him, the president-elect. i think there was a phone call because 15 minutes after that

phone call from cnn, hello, second allegation. and then, third, you've just got to look at the numbers, you don't have the votes. it was the right thing to do. as a democrat, i applaud only the republicans that were going to vote against him. i'm the mother of a 16-year-old girl. i hear 17-year-old girl, i mean, this is disgusting. democrat and republican, we should have more of a moral if compass than this in our nation. >> it's unacceptable. leslie, it's completely unacceptable. i mean, we can't -- >> yes, ben. i'm high-fivinging you virtually. >> yes. i think about my daughters, and i think about just the fact that, like, when it comes to matt gaetz, i would not trust this person to do anything in terms of, you know, baby sitting my daughters, you know, taking care of them, taking -- in terms of the situation. you know, would you trust him to take her to the movies?

>> i would not trust him to drive them in an uber, which might be his next job. howard: ben, on your larger point, a new cbs poll, 595 of a-- 59% approve of the trump transition and how he's handling it. including marco rubio, former members of congress. but even putting aside the sexual misconduct allegations, leslie, the media raised questions about how a guy who practiced law for a couple years at a small firm, never tried a case, could run the bureaucracy. >> and this is a problem i have with some. i know people think, oh, leslie, you and your side are just going to pooh-pooh every nominee. not so, and we'll get the that. i have to say you have to look at, sexual impropriety aside, and the fact that i'm even saying that in 2024 frightens me. but that aside, there isn't the experience. this isn't somebody who you're

talking about being an attorney for the nation, and he wasn't really a practicing attorney with litigation experience in a court of law in the state of florida, you know, in his backyard or, you know, at a law firm. out has nothing to do with age -- it has nothing to do with age. when you pile on the sexual predatory information, that there's a, you know, paper trail of, i mean, honestly he should have never, never been nominated. there should be a better vetting process. i don't care what party you're a part of. and this is just another reason why, howie with, the fbi does need to b .howie: which it's not but i'd just remind everybody that all politics is personal and another factor is a lot of lawmakers couldn't stand the guy, because of his way of dealing with things. now, let me turn to the successor, pam bondi.

some news outlets are already beginning to trash her, for being a trump loyalist. she was part of his first impeachment team defense for example, but no one can doubt ta former florida a.g. and career prosecutor has precisely the experience that matt gaetz lacked. >> yeah, i actually, i've had experience with pam bondi in the past. i think that she is perfectly fine person to name to this job and if she had been the original person nominated for it i don't think there would have been any eyebrows raised. the simple fact is this. the president is approaching this second term in an interesting way when it comes to naming his cabinet. he is picking people all incredibly talented at communications. that they are, they have the capability to go on tv, to do long form podcasts. some of them have them themselves. their communicators naturally and what that tells us is essentially, he is putting these

communicators in front of these departments in order to advocate for his policies and then he's going to name people underneath them deputies, you know, deputy chiefs, et cetera, who are charged are actually doing the difficult nerdy work that goes into reforming the bureaucracy under them. it's a different approach. it's one that certainly, you know, runs it on with a lot of the difficult ways that you approach things in washington but i think it make sense in a certain way. if you view this as a president who cares more about communications than anything else, when it comes to social media and the luke, i think this actually tracks with him, and is something that is going to potentially be a game changer. the only question is, will that work? in terms of delivering the reforms the american people want. howie: right and i think at least the view from trump world is that pam bondi isn't going to go blow up the place the way matt gaetz might have.

i want to play a brief clip from the washington post. trump hating columnist jen ruben. the context is about vaccines. we'll talk about that in the rfk segment but let's roll it. >> what do i mean by pithy? how about this. republicans want to kill your kids. it's actually true. howie: leslie? >> i don't know if republicans want to kill our children. i'm sure there are people in the democratic republican party that want to kill a lot of people. that's her opinion and i don't agree with that but i want to talk about pam bondi since that's what ben was talking about and the ben and i agreement honeymoon is over sadly but pam bondi, it was short-lived but pam bondi, i'm going to say a couple of positive things. one, hello female. two, she has the experience. she certainly has the experience. here are the three problems that i and many in my party have.

howie: leslie pick one because i'm running out of time. >> okay, concern about loyalty to the president over the constitution. here is 25k, make trump go away, she did. fighting for a ban against same sex marriage in her state. these are concerns, not only of me and other democrats, but i think of other americans. howie: you know, if you are questioning whether trump likes to pick people you've seen on tv, two frequent fox medical commentators have been picked to run the fda and the cdc. there's dr. oz accused of pedaling ineffective remedies on his tv show and former congressman sean duffy, the co-host on fox business for transportation sebaceous so secretary.when we come back newg on pete hegseth that could defense secretary. get nasty. like you know to check the weather first, before sailing.

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howie: the media are saying that the matt gaetz withdrawal may help another controversial nominee but also may bring in more scrutiny. pete hegseth, the decorated army combat veteran left his job as a weekend co-host on fox & friends after trump picked him to run the pentagon. the incoming president did not know that hegseth paid off a woman who accused him of sexual assault back in 2017. he says the encounter was consensual as part of a non-disclosure agreement. >> did you sexually assault a woman in monterey, california? >> the matter was fully investigated and i was completely cleared and that's where i'm going to leave it.

larry: now the left wing swamp seems to be going after pete hegseth over allegations concerning an episode that occurred seven years ago. hegseth knows the military very well. he himself was a warrior, so, should be confirmed routinely. >> hegseth said the encounter was con sell you'll but the woman told police he blocked her when leaving a hotel room. >> cnn contacted the woman known here as joan doe last week and she declined to comment to cnn but when our team showed up she broke down in tears. howie: ben it true the media coverage turned negative when hegseth's own lawyer acknowledged he paid off a woman who later accused him of sexual assault and having her sign an nda. nevertheless, the view in trump world is that hegseth will probably get through and the other nominees might be more

problematic. >> um, howie, i've known pete hegseth for 12 years. i appreciate him. i like him. i've never had a negative experience with him in my life, and, you know, i know nothing about this case but i will say that pete is one of the nicest people in media that i've ever met, and he's someone who both my wife and i, you know, appreciate for his candor, frankly his loving affection for his family and one of the thins that i would just say about this is, you know, everything is going to come out when you put yourself forward for one of these positions. he had to know that this is going to be something that's going to come out. i wish, perhaps, he had done a little bit more work ahead of time to deal with that fact, but you know, my brother, who is an army major and my sister who worked for multiple secretary's of defense, they both like pete and they think he be a good

person to have within that job, within the department of defense, which needs so much of a change. needs so much reform, and needs the perspective of someone whose actually served in recent years. howie: well served with honor, two bronze stars in both afghanistan and iraq, but leslie, this police report from california authorities from back in 2017, and says, you know, pete hegseth was very drunk, got into a fight with jane doe, how she's being repeated to and she repeatedly said no and a rape kit confirmed the sexual encounter and pete hegseth says this was consensual. >> i dreaded talking about this today. i met pete a long time ago. we spent middle of the night waiting to go on during 2016 before the election, and i like him as a person. with all due respect to my former colleague. we know that there were three cases of adultery for pete

hegseth and it is relevant and the reason why it's relevant is article 134 of the ucmj considers adultery against the military which the department of defense is part of. you can't lead an entire organization and all these people if you can't lead by example, one. two, i am a rape victim and i can tell you there's a reason one in 10 rapes go unreported, and it's very difficult for a woman to go in and have a rape kit done. it's physically, mentally, and emotionally very difficult to go through that process, as i have, and i can tell you that just very personal, in my deep core, somebody doesn't do that with their husband and their kids in the hotel texting their husband. somebody doesn't go into the hospital and subject herself to that and i have to say, i as a woman and as a victim, i

believe the victims, and this is a problem for me. and then on top of that, although pete has an incredible military career, he doesn't have the leadership career in the military that i feel the department of defense requires as their head. howie: one thing we know is that he didn't warn president trump and his team about this , and trump does not like to be surprised but ben, putting aside this 2017 episode, the media have also questioned how a tv guy, decorated soldier, absolutely, could manage this massive pentagon bureaucracy, soldiers around the world. >> well, i mean, i think that that's a hugtion in terms of the demands on that job. i think that pete, perhaps, would have been better off being nominated for something a little less demanding when it comes to that, but i have to respond to leslie here. i hear what you're saying. you know, i hear the concern

there. at this point in our lives, we have so many friends and we have so many connections with people who have survived similar circumstances that are so terrible, and i don't think that that should be underestimated in the least in terms of how important it is. the fact that he did not disclose this is a problem. the fact that this is not something that he addressed earlier is a problem. i do have faith in pete. i think he be a good secretary of defense, but it is something that he needs to address and i think that he deserves the opportunity to address it before the senate and before the committees that are going to be hearing him going forward. it's something that he has to speak to in order to be confirmed. howie: leslie, i appreciate your candor in describing your own personal experience that obviously was very moving, and gives us a different perspective. leslie marshall, ben domenech, thanks very much. up next, mounting media criticism of rfk jr. and a stunning conspiracy theory he once embraced.

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howie: there has been an intensifying media debated over rfk jr. but this speech from 2020 about the pandemic may be the ultimate conspiracy theory. >> many people argue that this pandemic was a plan-demic, planned from the outside as part of a scheme. i can't tell you the answer to that. i don't have enough evidence. a lot of it feels very planned to me. howie: joining us now in west palm beach, lisa booth, fox news political analyst and kevin corke, fox news senior national correspondent so lisa this is like a 9/11 truth of the american government. deliberately creating this pandemic? >> i'm failing to see where the conspiracy is here. he's raising questions that government used it for authoritarian purposes. china had a covid tracker

system, and australia had covid camps. here in the united states, governments, local governments shut down businesses, churches, yet people like gavin newsom went to french laundry, deborah brooks dined with her family, so i think that the question of this being used for nefarious purposes is fair in that regard and also the media would have learned its lesson after d disavowing the covid coming from the lab, that it came from the wuhan institute of virology and also lying about the fact our own government was engaged in gain of function research. we knew in march of 2020 the fatality rate wasn't what we were being told. howie: but that is very different. that's very different. let me just get kevin and we'll come back to you. this would have been during the trump administration. somehow creating a deadly virus that killed over a million americans and was engineered to spare jews and chinese people. >> here is the real issue,

howie. it's one thing to raise questions. i think that's reasonable to raise questions about anything. i don't care if its vaccines or what have you or in this case the pandemic. the problem is the language with which he is describing what may have happened. you have to be clear. you have to be careful, because if you go out there and you suggest well, you know, i don't know. i don't have all of the information, but you play tap of the side of the nose, it gives the impression that maybe there was more to this than we even could possibly know. howie: well the trump people think that rfk may have the hardest time getting through in part because of the criticism has come from the left and he's pro-choice and so forth and tulsi gabbard also was the lack of intel experience, but meanwhile, less lisa, usa today interviewed the kennedy family's live-in nanny, who says that last year, started groping her, sliding his hands up and down her body, and blocking her exit out of the small room so that's another aspect to this nomination. >> well and first of all i want

to be clear about, i don't agree with this statement on that covid certain groups of people, the point that i'm making with what he's saying is it was used for totalitarian purposes, and also i think that it's fair to raise questions when we were lied to originally about the origins of the covid virus by people like anthony fauci of simply raising the question is a point i was making. regarding the nanny allegations, look that was 26 years ago. she said she came forward after watching a campaign ad. what we've seen from the media is we're being told to believe all women when the accusations are being directed against republicans. when you have people like bill clinton who was out on the campaign trail for kamala harris, or doug emhoff accused by an ex-girlfriend of abusing her and yet we were told he is supposed to be the gold standard of what husband's should be in america, right? so it seems there's an unequal application of believe all women. howie: on the other hand, i've got to jump in here. >> allegations for so long

coming out during an election cycle. howie: rfk sent a text to her saying i have no memory of this incident, i sincerely apologize for anything i did to make you feel uncomfortable or offended you or hurt your feelings. >> i read the text and i read it carefully a couple of times because i wanted see if i could sense a tone here. he seems apologetic but also seems to acknowledge i don't remember what may have happened. would i apologize for something if i didn't think i did it? i don't think i would, but again i'm not in his shoes, but it did raise questions about what may have happened. howie: right. okay. next on mediabuzz, comcast is getting out of the cable news business, as campaign coverage changed forever. jorge has always put the ones he loves first. but when it comes to caring for his teeth he's let his own maintenance take a back seat. well maybe it's time to shift gears on that. aspen dental has complete, affordable care

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including msnbc, cnbc, as well as oxygen, usa, e and goth channel. joining us charlie gasparino, senior business correspondent at fox news business network, excuse me. charlie? what does it say about the tv news business and i know you like your job that comcast wants to sell-off particularly the cable news channels? charlie: let's just back this up a little bit. they broke up both sort of, they are two companies now. there's the cable news channel company. there's everything else, and they haven't said whether they are going to sell. now, sell some of these properties. now, i believe every investment banker on wall street believes, the lawyer that deals with this believes they are going to try to sell some of this stuff and the reason why is because it's a necessary evil in our horrible business. if you look at, all you have to do is look at the stocks of these companies and they have been getting crushed lately. lina khan, and the bidenftc,

and the doj and anti-trust division didn't allow something that naturally should have happened which is a merger of a lot of these media properties and now we'll get that with brendon car in there as the head of the sec and a market-friendly trump administration in there, and these companies are cheap. because of the , you know, the problems with our business, cord-cutting and lower advertising rates. howie: they probably will have to be mergers but also, the podcasts and sub-stack and digital media have changed forever the way, for example, campaigns are covered and that's a healthy thing. more voices but for those playing taps for the so-called legacy media, the big networks and newspapers, they are the ones that do the actual reporting as we have seen on donald trump's nominees. charlie: well you and i saw the newspaper business sort of disintermediate firsthand because we were in it, both of us. howie: it's a swan dive. too fancy of a word for me. charlie: okay, thanks, i know it's sunday morning but here is the thing, howie.

remember i was at news week for a time. howie: i remember. charlie: for a year and a half, and i saw our ad pages squeeze and then we think it's going to come back everybody thought, and you know, i couldn't get my stories in the paper and then i said okay i'm going to cable and cnbc. newsweek was not newsweek within two years and then i went to cable and cable is what was happening and the same sort of crush is going on there. listen, this is the natural flow of things. i hate to be free market on this , but you're right. there's stuff that is taking the place of traditional media. that's podcasting. that's, you know, sub-stack you name it. guess what else, howie? these media companies will have to adapt and they already are. fox has got its over-the-top product, fox nation. cnn is going through a massive transformation. howie: which includes lots of layoffs. charlie: until they get the business model right. this is just how it has to happen. you know, i tell the kids that

work for me and all of the people that work for me that are out there doing well in traditional media. make sure you break news and add value. if you do this , you can do it on tv. you can do it on the web. you can do it on twitter. you can do it on a podcast. this business has to do what it's supposed to do and that's inform people and part of the problem with our business and the reason why these alternative media venues are starting to proliferate is traditional media did not do its job. break news. you know, stop being woke. howie: didn't do its job in many ways, bias, sensationalisl, but let's talk about elon musk whose career you have followed. he's become trump's chief cheerleader on x. he says he's going to head the commission and will cut 30% of federal spending, good luck. but he also has billions of dollars in federal contracts. conflict questions fair? charlie: oh, yeah it is, but he also delivers. you know, listen.

we used to be a conflict is now a synergy i guess. howie: it's a nicer word. charlie: but you know, here is the thing. you can't getaway from thisment when you have a business, you're going to have multiple conflicts of interest. i think those are good stories to write. i write about them all of the time, but you know, elon's conflicts should be reviewed. by the way, didn't he get contracts pulled from him from the biden administration at certain times because they didn't like what he was, maybe because they didn't like what he was saying on x about donald trump? howie: a lot of contracts with the pentagon and others. i just want to briefly touch on the anti-trust case against gag chill is found to have an illegal search warranty and violations and the biden justice department is now saying it wants to force google to sell-off its popular chrome browser. wouldn't that kind of destroy the company's business model? charlie: yeah, they have to figure out, do they want

american tech to be at the top of the heap or do they want to dismantle it because if you do that, you're going to reduce value. trust me i've been talking to a lot of telecom lawyers and bankers about this. i do wonder though, and this is an interesting issue, will the trump administration carry on with this? you know, theoretically, they are a probe-free market but they are skeptical of big tech so that's an interesting thing to follow. howie: thanks for helping us unpack all of this , charlie gasparino, good to see you. after the break, the media focus on a manhattan prosecutor who wants to delay the sentencing of donald trump until after he leaves the white house. but home is also your body. i asked myself, why doesn't pilates exist in harlem? so i started my own studio. getting a brick and mortar in new york is not easy. chase ink has supported us from studio one to studio three. when you start small, you need some big help.

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howie: manhattan d. a. alvin bragg who bought the hush money case in which donald trump was convicted now wants to put it on hold for four years. kevin this made big headlines. how can helping bragg say oh, we'll just keep the sentence hanging over your head until you finish your term as president because usually there's no prosecution against an incumbent president assuming the case isn't thrown out under the supreme court immunity rule. >> i think that this is an acknowledgment, howie, this is likely to be thrown out anyway. this is just red meet for the base of his party for the folks who want to see him run again or run for something else. i don't think there's any expectation whatsoever this will pass. even if it gets passed the supreme court, i don't think it's goes anywhere and i don't think this is 2024.

you and i will be doing a lot of the things talking about this. howie: his a, we don't even know if alvin bragg will still be d. a. in 2029. doesn't this look blatantly partisan? >> it does, but this is watt whatwe've seen in the direction towards donald trump. they try to kick him off the ballot in certain states and thrown all of this legal warfare at him as well, so it sort of is to be expected at this point and ellie hoenig, a former state and federal prosecutor is basic legislature saying the manhattan d. a. needs to acknowledge this is over talking about the case, how basically he took an expired state level misdemeanor through another state level misdemeanor and threw on federal campaign finance violation on top of it and basically acknowledging this was a bizarre legal concoction from the manhattan d. a., so look, i just think they hate him, even the judge donated

previously to joe biden and democrats as well so people knew and still voted for donald trump so it was a rejection of all this legal warfare against him. howie: right. but kevin, there's also a media effort to minimize trump's victory, so political headline. trump won less than 50%. why seven calling it a landslide. i read that. listen, at the end of the day, you and i both know, i was watching election night. i was there as the kids like to say, this was not a mandate. especially when you consider how it was predicted, how people have seen republicans in national elections. this is about as close to a mandate as it's not going to be reagan-esque, but it's a little click-bait-y if you ask me. howie: lisa the new york times reported facts he prevailed with the smallest victory of popular votes since the 19th century and didn't generate much in the way of coat tails like a true

landslide but the share of the popular vote is 49.9% so if it had been one point higher everyone would say well he won 50% of the vote. >> yeah, you know, howie he brought the house and the senate along with him so there absolutely were coat tails. we're told in 1992 bill clinton at 43% was a mandate but yet somehow this isn't a a mandate, when he was able to move blue states and blue cities, like in texas 97% hispanic hadn't gone republican in 128s, winning dearborn, michigan, you go down the list. we all saw that math going around x with all of the red in the united states, saying can you hear us now, right? so, they hate him, and they want to try to deny him recognition even in victory. howie: yeah, i think 49.9% is pretty pretty good. >> exactly, yeah. howie: given the nature of the campaign. all right still to come.

the controversy over how to treat transgender people comes to capitol hill. ughh. miralax works naturally with the water in your body to help you go. free your gut and your mood will follow. for 8 grams of fiber, try mirafiber gummies.

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howie: congresswoman nancy mace is pushing a measure to bar transgender women from using men's bathrooms. >> if you all saw men dressed as woman threatening to kill me because they believe they have the right to infringe on women's bathrooms, so i'm not going to play into this gender ideology, this crazy thing that men want to force on women. howie: lisa, this is exactly one person, sarah mcbride, just electedded as the first openly transgender member of congress. are the media making too much of

this? >> why aren't more people standing up for women? why is the issue of women wanting to protect private spaces whether it be the bathroom, the woman's locker room or women's sports why are they the issue as opposed to a man wanting to violate that space or be in a women's private space? i think the media is framing a lot of these transgender issues wildly out of touch with the american people. for instance, look at representative seth molten's comments about men playing in women's sports. in polling 72% of americans agree with that statement, yet the media would frame those comments as being controversial. we also saw this as a campaign issue in both senate races as well as donald trump and his ad kamala harris, for i am for you, so, i think the media is actually out of touch with the american people in its coverage of these issues. howie: kevin, lisa anticipated pie next question and i'm for full rights for transgender people but when it comes to men and women in sports, in bathrooms, this is an 80/20 issue used very effectively

against kamala harris in the campaign. >> you stole the words right from me. i really believe this was a huge part of the campaign too. a lot of people feel very strongly. listen you've got sisters, moms, waive, partners, what have you, they deserve their privacy and if that makes you feel very unsafe, we ought not to be doing it as a matter of public policy. people deserve to have the spaces they like to have and i'm not against anybody. but i think that this is a huge issue and i think a lot of people, a lot of people feel very passionately about it, howie, they deserve to feel as strong as they do and to have the spaces that protect them and make them feel safe. howie: sarah mcbride, lisa says she will follow the rules and she told cbs republicans are trying to manufacture a crisis. and besides all members have private bathrooms, so is this mostly about symbolism? >> well, i mean, perhaps. there's an element to that. i wouldn't disagree with you on that, howie but it is a

conversation that's playing out in homes across america. you know as i pointed out previously this was an issue on the campaign trail and in 2024 election and this is an issue that the majority of americans want to protect women spaces so i think the media should be honest in its framing of these conversations acknowledging that's where the american people are on this issue and it's not controversial to want to protect women's spaces. howie: do you think as lisa suggested, kevin, there's a little bit too much of an effort to say that if you are for any restrictions, that somehow, you are transphobic is the word i was searching for. >> people say that and it's completely wrong. ultimately i think what will happen, i think, eventually in this sort of circumstance, is the congress person will just say, i will stick to my own restroom and that makes it simple for everybody but don't ever mistake this idea, howie, that women feel very strongly about this. maybe moreso even in the broader population and i think that they deserve to be heard on this one. howie: right.

and i think we need to be open minded in the way we approach this even if it is partially symbolic in the case of capitol hill and this clearly is an issue as the campaign showed it is not going to go away. kevin corke, lisa booth, thanks very much for coming by. >> thanks, howie. howie: that's it for this edition of media business. i'm howard kurtz, you can subscribe to my daily podcast, mediabuzz meter and we talk about the day's top stories get it on apple podcast and then you'll get the ads. we're back here next sunday morning. i've got more time i wanted to show you all of these nfl players doing the trump dance. used to be that was keep politics out of sports but now it's okay but we don't have the footage to show you. anyway, join us next time, the only media analysis show, on national television.

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