♪ ♪ if. howard: here's a story you can't blame on the liberal media, it's trump campaign itself that came

up with these findings. two sources have con firmed to me that an internal review sharply criticized longtime trump aide and confidant boris epstein. he's denying any wrongdoing saying in a statement, i am honored to work for president trump and with his team. these false claims are fake and defamatory. after an internal review, president trump's legal team found that he had asked for lucrative retainer fees to help people find jobs in the new administration. the story leaked to cnn and major newspapers citing multiple sources. somebody wanted this out. >> lawyers who are running this internal investigation had claimed that epstein tried to gain financially from his relationship with trump. >> thousand shalt not -- thou shalt not profit off donald trump. >> trump has a long history of getting irritated when people make money off of him, as he would put it. howard: new york times, top

trump aide accused of asking for money to appoint potential appoint toes. washington post, trump aide sought payments for job seekers, internal legal review found. my sources say the trump campaign confirmed the story with a spokesman's statement that a this was starred practice of reviewing consulting contracts. here's epstein with ari melber from almost three years ago. >> i was part of the process to make sure there were alternate electors for when, was we hope the challenges to the ceded -- seated electors, would be heard and heard successfully. everything was done according to the rules and under the leadership of rudy giuliani. howard: trump told the conservative site just the news, no one can promise any endorsement or nomination except me. i make these decisions on my own, period. epstein had lunch with scott bessent who was hoping to become treasury secretary and asked for

a fee of $30,000 a month, the review says. bess sent turned him down but wound up getting the job anyway. in another case, epstein was found to have approached a defense contractor who worked for trump in the first term and asked for $100,000 a month saying the contractor's business with the pentagon depending opposite. this person also said no. epstein is known for his aggressive style. the washington post reports when transition can co-hair howard lutnick tried to block boris from if attending a mar-a-lago meeting, epstein used his forearm to push lutnick out of the way. the president's son is eric said this on the ingram angle. >> my father's been incredibly clear, you do not, you do not do that under any circumstance and, believe me, there will be repercussions. if it's true, you know, the person will probably no longer be around. howard: the internal review made an initial recommendation that boris be removed from trump's inner circle and not employ

filed any trump outlets, but given epstein's firm denials, that remains to be seen. i'm howard kurtz and this is the "mediabuzz." ♪ howard: donald last night picked longtime ally kash patel who has a wealth of government experience to replace his own a appointee, chris wray, in running the fbi. patel, who wants to shut down the bureau's to washington with headquarters, targeted the media just last year. >> we will go out and find the conspirators not just in government, but in the media, yes. we're going to come after the people in the media who lied about american citizens, who helped joe biden rig presidential elections. we're boeing to come after you whether it's the criminally or civilly, we'll figure that out. we're actually going to use the constitution to prosecute them for crimes they said we have always been guilty of but never have. howard: the president-elect said patel is a brilliant lawyer, investigator and america first

fighter who spent his career fighting and and exposing corruption, defending justice and protecting the american people. joining us now to analyze the coverage in grand rapids, robby soave, senior editor at reason magazine, and here with me, lucy caldwell, excuse me, an adviser to oakland corp.. robby, kash patel has been chief of staff at the pentagon, deputy director of martial degeneration -- intelligence, plenty of experience, but what do you make of those threatening words against the media? >> well, look, i don't think it's a good idea to say that you'll go after the media. it's another thing to criticize the media, that's fine. the real mission of someone like kash patel is to go after the other law enforcement officials or intelligence advisers who have so made life miserable for trump and his acolytes during his first term. and that's what the mandate is to do, to do mass declassification.

that's another thing kash patel has promised. you'll recall that the fbi is one of the agencies that actually believes covid was, in fact, a lab leak. that's something the american people have a lot of interest in. we could have that declassified. i think that would be wonderful. i think there's a mandate to do exactly that kind of thing, and that's why this pick has impressed and electrified the maga base i i think more so than any other picks -- howard: all right, let's -- >> -- going after media legally, it should be about holding law enforcement agencies accountable. howard: kash patel was also a national security prosecutor at the obama justice department so, apparently, that was okay. but do you find the rhetoric that we just listened to against the the media rather chilling? >> yeah. and, certainly, there's a big difference between being critical of the media as a private citizen and then describing the media in conspiratorial terms, talking about going after the media in, as you step into the role as a person who's going to lead the federal bureau of investigations. that's a really different

proposition. so kash patel -- there are two types of republicans. there's the go along to get along kind of republican, j.d. vance, historically. yeah, trump says stuff at elections about denial and stuff like that x then there's the diehard republican, and kash patel is a dielard. and a person that is talking about prosecuting members of the media in a conspiratorial fashion, being quite antagonistic to the 7,000 people who work in the fbi, that's something to be concerned about no matter your politics. howard: robby, cnn called papa tell a highly divisive figure, msnbc called him an authoritarian leader, and on "fox & friends" will cain said though this is a refreshing pick, and he's gone after -- he said that, the fbi needs a thorough house cleaning. >> yes. think many of the american people agree with that. you know, they're saying that now it's going to be politicized because this figure has come in,

but what so many conservative people all around america voted for trump with the explicit knowledge of -- trump had no, made no secret of what he was going to do. he was going to install people to do reviews of these agencies that he argues have harmed the institutions by being political. pretending that they're apolitical but actually engaging in political witch hunts against trump and his allies. so this is someone who is going to position that. if he -- expose that. if he uses his perch to, you know, unfairly as lucy said go after members of the media in a criminal way rather than criticizing them, i will be right along with you criticizing that behavior. but let's give him a chance to do what president trump says he wants to do and having transparency. can't we all be for transparency for declassification? that used to be a liberal value too. howard: nbc said the question is whether patel will go after trump's political enemies. louis say, he tried to -- lucy,

he tied to discredit the muller investigation, and on fox news, david marcus says he has a chance to cure the abuses of of the fbi, but the other side now is worried about him blowing the place up fig a rahtively speak d figuratively speak. >> the so-called political witch hunts against trump by the fbi, i don't understand exactly what robby is referencing. i think we need to be more specific. transparency, sure. yeah, that's great. love that. kash patel has told us exactly who he is. what are we waiting to see? we know who guy is. he's talking in conspiratorial terms about the media, about hard working members of the fbi, and he is engaging in a form of politics that is corrosive and dangerous. so i think we've seen all we need to see. howard: and he still, obviously, would face a confirmation hearing. let me move move on to the death threats and pipe bomb threats

against pete hegseth, elise steph nick, scott turner, john ratcliffe, matt gaetz on thanksgiving day. and, robby, this is reprehensible and, i think, deserves more media attention. >> it's utterly reprehensible, and one does get the sense if these were threats against democrats or liberals, it would be talked about a lot more in the mainstream media. and it ought to be condemned, similarly, exactly the same. i would say that it's contemptible regardless of who the target is. and, you know, for all of the conversations in the mainstream media about how donald trump's rhetoric is uniquely dangerous, it is now trump's own people who are facing these kinds of threats and, of course, trump himself the target of literal, actual violence, an assassination attempt, possibly two. it is a reminder that we must steadfastly be united in condemning threats of political violence regardless of who the targets are. i agree with you, howie, that this deserves much more media

attention -- howard: here's what pete hegseth posted thanksgiving day, police officers arrived at our home, the officer notified my wife and i that we had received a credible pipe bomb threat, we are safe. the threat has been clear. i will not be bullied or intimidated. also thanksgiving day, lucy, threats against four house democrats in connecticut. so this is scary stuff. >> yeah. violence is wrong no matter whom it's targeted against. violence is never the right way to resolve these issues. i would say interfering with people's personal lives, showing up outside the doors of their family homes where, as pete hegseth said, his children were sleeping, that is wrong. some of trump's cabinet appointees have been credibly accused of violent acts including pete hegseth. he has been accused of raping a woman. so i think we should -- howard: which, which he conditions and says that it was a consensual sexual matter.

but so, surely, you know, it's not that they, these people, the threats turned out to be fake, they arranged it so that police officers go and have to wake up the family while all the kids are sleeping. it's hour ifying. enter absolutely. howard: yeah, okay. one more thing as mark zuckerberg, robby, who's had a rocky relationship with trump, he went down to march lag go the other night -- mar-a-lago the other night. we're looking at a picture from 2019 meeting then-president trump. for all the media focus on joe scarborough and mika brzezinski, doesn't this amount to a guy who controls a huge social media platform going down there to kiss his ring? >> mark zuckerberg has become a punching bag for republicans and democrats, frankly, over the years in ways that annoy me. obviously, facebook did a a lot

wrong, and mark zuckerberg agrees there was too much censorship at the behest -- not freely chosen by mark zuckerberg. he's now said and what he's tried to the, i think, assure president trump is that it's going to be a neutral platform where they won't be too heavy-handed, you can have your free speech rights there. and i think it's good to admit that, and i hope he has a constructive relationship with whoever the president is. it's going to be donald trump for the next four years, or if it's a democrat, that's fine. and i think it goes to show you that silicon valley's becoming a little bit more comfortable with republican governance which i think would be a good thing. howard: lucy, donald trump had posted: we will pursue election fraudsters at levels never seen before. we know who you are, don't do it, zuckerbucks. be careful. trump told me that he was changing his position on tiktok because facebook, in his view, is so much worse.

but here he is with zuck. >> it's a really hard needle to thread. i personally hope american corporations can be a bulwark against political extremism which i think maga certainly styles itself in at times. other than, we also want in a functional -- on the other hand, we also want for large corporate ceos to be able to have a good relationship with administrations regardless of who's in power. howard: well put, and we'll see you a little later, panel. up next, why the trump tariffs are suddenly such a hot story. steve hilton is on deck.esti ♪ . (inner monologue) my kids don't know what they want. you know who knows what she wants? me! with empower, we get all of our financial questions answered. so you don't have to worry. empower. what's next. upset stomach iberogast indigestion iberogast bloating iberogast thanks to a unique combination of herbs, iberogast helps relieve six digestive symptoms

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howard: justin trudeau had dinner with donald trump at mar-a-lago. the canadian prime minister objecting to plans to impose tariffs on his country. the media are shocked, but trump

must have said a thousand times during the campaign that he was going to impose stiff tariffs on such countries as china. >> yes, there are big economic issues at play here, but there are national security issues and life and death issues at play. hen ran on this. >> if you voted for trump because you thought he was going to bring grocery prices down, i have some very bad news for you -- >> that's why you're still seeing some republicans and conservatives like the club for growth and national review write column of after column begging trump to abandon this. howard: joining us now from outside palo alto, steve hilton, fox news contributor, tech executive and one-time british political adviser. steve, we heard again and again, it was never a secret. did the press somehow not believe donald trump when he talked about imposing 25% tariffs on countries starting with china? >> well, we've also seen it before in the first trump term. used incredibly successfully. we need to separate out two

aspects of tariffs. there's the economic aspect, of course, and we can get into that. but the headlines are right now being made by the political as aspect. i remember this very clearly in trump's term because about an hour or so before we went on air for my sunday night show, trump announced via tweet in response to caravans moving up through central america and heading towards mexico that unless mexico did something about its southern border, he would impose 25% tariffs on mexican goods and that it would increase every single week until something was done about it. well, guess what happened? that week the mexican government sent troops to its southern border and actually did exactly what trump had asked for. so they are a powerful tool in a political sense, not just in economic terms as well. howard: well, when you've got justin trudeau flying to mar-a-lago to plead his case, doesn't this suggest that this is the beginning of the negotiations which is an old real estate businessman's tactic

and that some of this may be worked out through, i know it's a dirty word, diplomacy? >> yes. 9 and the reason that trump rightly focuses on tariffs as a key component of his negotiating strategy whether on political or economic questions is because he has such great, to use a term he would appreciate, leverage. because we are such a dominant economy that we actually have more power in these negotiations than anyone else because we're so productive. we have such a wide range of industries. we can actually use our economic strength in so many different ways against so many other countries and, frankly, this is what he wan on concern ran on. this is economic first in economic policy. howard: trump also says he he had a good call with mexican president claudia sheinbaum, but he has a different spin -- she has a different spin on it saying nothing's changed. and i understand the sensitivity here because mexico and canada are, obviously, our closest neighbors and certainly in the case of canada, usually are

american allies. >> well, exactly. and so, you know, the president of mexico has her con estimate. went city, and she -- constituency, and she needs to make sure her position particularly as a newly-elected leader is protected. going back to precedent, we don't need to speculate, it was president trump that renegotiated nafta and created the usmca which actually is very favorable to mexico as well as to the u.s. and he did that based on understanding what the the different parties in the negotiations need. it turned out to be good for our economy and mexico and canada signed on to it. so it is possible to find a way through in that benefits all parties, and and i'm sure that is what president-elect trump is seeking to do. howard: well, we can have a media debate about whether this will lead to a trade war, but the press clearly believes it will mean higher prices for consumers and, steve, a lot of economy uses agree -- economists agree with them. >> okay.

[laughter] first of all, we look at pundits in the media, most of them are not economists, and they're just recycling talking points. howard: you're saying they're just with, they're just plague the role on television? no, of course they're not economists -- >> who would imagine such a thing? howard: yes. who would imagine? >> that's true, but let's look at the economists. it reminds me of something that my economics professor at oxford university used to tell me which is you could put all the economists in the world end to end, and you'd never reach a conclusion. why? because economic theory doesn't necessarily match up to reality. and economists have models of what will happen in some future theoretical world, but it doesn't take account of the real world. so let's say you have tariffs imposed on foreign goods. that doesn't mean that prices immediately go up. that may mean, for example, that domestic providers like alternative sources include colluding from here in america. let's just take one example. let's imagine there's tariffs against european goods and

champagne is blocked by the french. well, we have perfectly good alternatives right here in california are up the road from me in sonoma and napa. that's the point, america has abundance in everything, and we're in a very strong position to prosper from this new kind of approach -- howard: you see what he just did there, folks, he played the ox farred card. -- oxford card. how do i respond to that? [laughter] when we come back, the press act a stunned that president trump is no longer under indictment. ♪

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howard: everyone in the media business knew it was coming but acted like it was huge, stunning, eye-popping breaking news. >> more breaking news, we just told you that special counsel jack smith had dropped the election subversion case existence president trump -- >> jack smith dropping his two major cases against trump. trump sets his sights now on revenge. >> the president-elect gets a hall pass prosecute special

counsel. >> this is a historic moment, certainly, in the sense that it clears the decks for president trump on the federal cases. howard: steve hilton, of course, it had to be covered, but jack smith had been signaling for weeks he was going to shut his operation down because of the doj policy against prosecuting sitting presidents. his alternative was to wait for trump to fire hem on january toth. -- 20th. who wouldn't want that? >> exactly. and this whole thing, howie, just makes me laugh because how often have we heard that term we need normalcy, a return to normalcy? this is moral city, the norm -- normalcy, the normal precedent. of course, that would be can case from january 20th onward. as you say, this is entirely predictable, but everything that trump does and anything if connected to trump makes news. and i think that's particularly the case right now because we've seen such a vacuum on the other side from the actual president because there's nothing really coming off the current

administration. where is biden? what's kamala harris doing other than putting out laughable videos that get mocked right across the internet? if there's no other game in town other than what's coming out of mar-a-lago and anything connected to it. howard: in media terms, you are right. joe biden did, however, manage to arrange a ceasefire between israel and hezbollah in lebanon. how much of a role have the media played, in your view, in exacerbating the divisions in this 50-50 country? >> well, look, i think that tha- [laughter] it's very easy to blame the media. i'm not sure that, actually, that represents the full truth the here because in the end, this is normal. this is partisan politics. i'm very used to it. you see it in the u.k., raucous debates in the british parliament and so on. and that is where we are. and of course you could say that it's amplified particularly in social media because people have access to it the whole time. but even then i wouldn't blame so much social media in terms of the platform. the real villain, if you want to

pick one, i think, is the smartphone because that puts the kind of divisive rhetoric and the different positions and all the rest of it in people's pockets every with they go -- everywhere they go, every minute of every day. the advent of the smartphone enables people to be engaged in politics almost nonstop. i don't think it's a healthy development at all, that's why i don't actually have a smartphone. howard: now, there's a revelation. anyway, it's an interesting way of looking at it. has donald trump, who comments on everything, has he changed the culture as well as the political system? >> well, i think he's actually led hamasive intellectual -- led a massive intellectual revolution. there are very few leaders who actually change the way people think. you can count them on the fingers of one hand. you saw margaret thatcher, reagan, goldwater in terms of the conservative revolution. i think trump has done that in terms of the intellectual basis

of the republican policy agenda, for example. in terms of the culture, i think what's fascinating about this election is how trumps has become, despite all the vitriol and the media abuse and all the rest of it, a cool figure in the culture. you have young men if supporting trump by majority. over biden. and i think a huge part of that has been the media strategy that he followed in if this election going to the places which are culturally relevant and talking in ways that fit those media. and i think that's been a real change. howard: interesting. >> as long as i've been involved in the right, donald trump has been the one to finally reach young people. howard: all right. steve hilton, thanks very much for joining us. next on "mediabuzz," the pundits were very happy to get rid of matt gaetz. now they've turning on pam bondi for attorney general. stay with us. ♪ muck

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howard: after the matt gaetz fiasco, donald trump picked pam bondi who has precisely the experience that the ex-congressman lacks. former attorney general in florida and career prosecutor, but much of the media quickly found fault with her as well. now, bondi does have a partisan history with trump. she was on his legal team for the first impeachment and became a top official at a pro-trump superisser pac. she also -- super pac. she also drew flak for saying this. >> the department of justice, the prosecutors will be prosecuted, the bad ones. the investigates will be investigated because the deep state, last term for president trump they were hiding in the shadows. >> whether or not she has the experience, the senate also has a big obligation to check whether she meant what she said in those statements and how they are going to try to ensure the independence and the rule of law in the united states. >> i love pam bondi for attorney general. as the president said, she is smart, she is loyal, she's tough

and she's an america first. >> pam bondi, a real lawyer with real experience, real character and real competence which has the left squared -- scared. howard: robbie swaf say, why are much of the media sunday sudden -- suddenly turning on pam bondi? >> she has this history of defending trump. the media has come up with this sort of loyalty test where if you're loyal to donald trump, that's being seen as a bad thing. you know, i hesitate to think oa cabinet appointee that joe biden made that was disloyal to joe biden? [laughter] it's a kind of new media invention. i think this entire conversation about her is a little bit of a distraction because i'd like to know what her policies will be. matt gaetz, who did have a lot of ethical allegations against him, i see why that was not

sustainable, but i knew what his policies were going to be with respect to surveillance and antitrust and some other issues where there's actually republican do disagreement to do. should edward snowdenen be punished? i don't know what pam bondi thinks about that. i'd love to stop focusing on utterly distracting non-loyalty test. howard: you picked up a point that i've written about which is the word loyalist has become sort of a dirty word. washington post today, loyalist kash patel. so, lucy, doesn't every president hire a loyalist; that is, people who support his or her plans? >> yea, of course. i think that in the trump consideration it's a little -- conversation it's a little different because loyal demeans something different than are you a supporter. it means have you passed certain litmus tests. one of those is do you believe the 2020 the election was stolen. are you willing to participate in some of his viewpoints that

are out of step with how many people feel, right? and so that's, i think, the -- what people are talking about when they talk about is this person loyal or not. pam bondi, look, presidents do have, they should be given the discretion and the grace to appoint their own cabinets. she's not whom i would choose, but i was not a supporter of president trump. she is a person who seems like a person who should be confirmed. and if democrats choose to have these fights over people like elise stefanik, marco rubio, pam bondi, they are going to lose the goodwill that they may have over people like kash patel. howard: robby, i don't think there's any question she's going to be confirmed and is going to be the next attorney general. but, you know, for all of the hand-wringing and anguish about matt gaetz and what has he ever managed himself for, not to mention some of the questions about his personal life, you know, pam bondi is about a hundred times more qualified. so that says to me that if media liberals and democrats are going

to oppose pam bondi, they'll oppose anybody. >> sure. of and, certainly, some media a figures would oppose anybody or oppose anyone if trump would be likely to nominate. i agree that she's very likely to be confirmed, but she should -- we should, again, hear more about her policy views. the attorney general, the top law enforcement figure, has a lot of power to, over americans' lives and hair civil liberties -- their civil liberties and how they will interact with law enforcement. and, again, i feel like maybe because matt gaetz has been more vocal or active in the media for so long, he's a colorful character, i know more about his views, and i would like to hear more about pam bondi's. but i agree that she is very qualified, and it would be a mistake, lucy's exactly right, for the media and for democrats to unduly concentrate on her over this ceebd of -- kind of loyalty question which, again, every president is going to pick people who are at least somewhat loyal. we want them to be independent. we certainly want an attorney

general that'll intervene if the president, whoever he is, does something seriously criminally wrong, and i hope that's what we're getting. howard: as one trump world source put it to me, unlike what matt gaetz might have done had he not had to withdraw, pam bonn pam bondi's not going to go into the justice department and blow things up. she will take a different approach. lucy caldwell, in fact, trump world believes, i mean, they think pam bondi's a lot, but they also believe pete hegseth will get through, but that rfk jr. and tulsi gabbard may not. so are the media back to being the resistance now? >> i don't know. i think that who gets through, who doesn't get through remains to be seen. i thought that a clip you played where trey gowdy said pam bondi is a real lawyer with real experience, many of us didn't know matt gaetz was a real lawyer. [laughter] regardless of whether or not they are partisan, loyalist, does this person seem like they

have the chops to do this job. and so in that frame, looking at someone like pam bondi is very different than looking at some of these other folks. howard: well, robby, didn't joe biden hire loyalists like ron klain and tom donilon, some of them had been with him for 40 years? or is it different when the media approves of these selections? >> well, certainly. and, you know, to be a little bit critical of trump during his first term, one of the plus tracings -- frustrations that a lot of people who otherwise supported him had is they did not feel like the personnel he picked, and i think donald trump would agree with this, would implement the policy agenda in that he ran on. and this time i'm hearing a lot more excitement from trump support possessor about the people who have been picked which doesn't mean they all agree that even a marco rubio versus is full city gabbard, i -- tulsi gabbard, pete hegseth, we'll see, all of that.

but these are people who i think donald trump has picked to run the agenda he ran on. there should be no surprises about that because, one, he made no secret of the kind of policy he wants, and he has picked people to implement that, and the media is, you know, upset about that but what can they do? howard: ill just remind everybody that eric holder, former attorney general, referred to himself as barack obama's wingman on this whole question of loyalty. but great discussion. lucy caldwell, robbie robby soave is, thanks for joining us this sunday. after the break, the pro-kamala press till trying to figure out how the democrats emerge from this wreckage. ♪ ♪ celebrate the ones you inherited with ancestrydna. explore the detailed family roots, cultures and traits that shaped who you are today for only $39. there's something going around the gordon home.

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>> the hardest part was thinking about going on joe rogan's show, and a lot of the young progressive staffers pitched a hissy fit. supposedly, the campaign said that wasn't determinative fact, but they did. when you put a campaign together and you hire young people to do work, let me tell you exactly what a you tell these people, what i will tell them. not only am i not interested in your [bleep] opinion, i'm not even going to call you by your name. howard: joining us now, juan williams, fox news senior political analyst, and you're laughing at carville, but -- [laughter] you have to. a lot of media hand-wringing

going on about why the democrats lost, and carville is saying the party is just too woke. >> right. so the question is, are identity politics now to blame for the democrats' demise? let me just say, let's put this in context. you know, democrats have won most of the popular votes in presidential elections going back to the clinton years. howard: not this time. >> not this time. but, again, if there's a line, a narrative coming from the trump people that says, oh, he won a mandate, in fact, he didn't even win the majority, just under the majority, 50%. so he won a plural till. -- plural i. you stop and think about it, the democrats are not exactly, you know, out of game. they're still a legitimate part. howard: they have no power in washington, juan. >> right. that's the key point, that they won the house, senate and white house, but they are not, in fact, like a goner. it's not like you're saying we don't know how democrats reconstitute. what they are is a party in

december array, and i think -- disarray, and i think they are disspiritted. we saw after the 2016 victory, it looks like they are at sea this time. howard: disspiritted, they need therapy, many of them. of it's not like kamala harris going on joe rogan's podcast would have been some magic bullet. but the fact that she backed out in part because progressive staffers on her team objected, doesn't that sort of crystallize the problem? >> yeah, i think it does, because i think it would have been wise to go on joe rogan's show because it would have appealed to those white males that donald trump was directly trying to stir in terms of low proclivity voters to get them out. and they came out for donald trump. and i would adhere not only did they come out, but i think that approach worked with a lot of black and latino men in terms of saying, here's the bandwagon, we're the winners, we're having a good time, we're having a party over here. elon musk is here, the money is raining down, come and -- and i think for a lot of people, you

know, without college education, especially those we're talking about white men but also the latino and black men, i think that was the lure that a drew them to trump. howard: so donald trump, as you know, doubled his share of the black vote to 16% running against a black candidate who actually got fewer african-american votes than joe biden did last time. i don't think the media have any real explanation for that. >> oh, i think as i can -- i offered you some is. howard: offer me more. >> well, i think for young black men especially but also for young latino men and, again, non-college-educated, i think they feel the system has not delivered for them, and it hasn't come through for them. they're looking for someone who can deliver. remember, she ran saying that trump was the bad guy, he's chaos, he's turmoil -- howard: dangerous. >> -- he's racist, all that kind of stuff. and i think for these people it was, like, well, we think we could do better. i don't think it was the cost of eggs though. i don't think -- everybody says, well, you look at latino mentioner they say, oh, it was

all about the economy. i think a lot of this was sort of ethos, you know? like, oh, trump is the one who is changing things. he's going to reinvent government. he's going to take the establishment apart, and we can't stand the establishment. and i think for minority young men that was very interesting. howard: yeah. it was a change election, and it's hard to be the candidate of change when you're the incumbent vp. president biden talking to reporters, had some words about the media. a take a look. >> it's not a create sill of -- can criticism of the press. you know me too well. it's that we turn on the television, and you don't see a lot of good news. even stuff that is good news if count seem to sell very well. -- doesn't seem to sell very well. you turn on the tv, everything looks bad. howard: wouldn't with any president suffer from that? the bias toward bad news, so to speak? >> you know, i think he's on target with this, and i find this something i criticize harshly, especially local news. you turn on the 11 p.m. news, 10

p.m. news in most community, and if somebody got mugged, there's a fire, somebody died and, of course, they all say, oh, people can't stand the economy. but they don't point out, hey, this holiday there's record numbers of people traveling, so they found money somewhere, right? howard: right. >> but i think that the negative then, of course, works against people who are trying to govern, the establishment, if you will. establishment is never going to be popular, but, you know, the american economy right now is not in the dumps, and i think you're going to soon see the trump people saying, hey, isn't this a good economy? howard: you're starting to see some people who were down on the economy say it's pretty good -- [laughter] it was a proxy, i think, for whether you preferred kamala harris or donald trump. juan williams, good to see you. >> thanks for doing the only good media show, and the only media show, in american television. howard: and we've got our best promo now. [laughter] thanks, juan. still to come, a shocking disclosure about al sharpton, msnbc and the kamala harris

campaign. ♪

howard: reverend al sharpton has always played a dual role, an activist who handles cases but also a host on msnbc. the group requests nonprofit -- nonprofit group accepted $500,000 in payments from the kamala harris campaign, then two weeks before the election conducted an msnbc interview with the vice president on her birthday that was about as friendly as you can imagine. >> you called me on my birthday. thanks again. >> uh-huh. >> what do you want 50 years from now history to say about kamala harris? >> i, i hope that -- and i really do work that my life will

have proven to have been a life has about fighting for the people. of. howard: it gets worse. sharpton failed to disclose the mega donation to his bosses. the network has punished other hosts for making political donations. doesn't msnbc have to sake some -- take some action to show this is unacceptable, or is the brass too worried about taking on its most prominent black host? jennifer o'malley dillon, joe biden's campaign manager if who was kept on my kamala harris, is unloading on the need ya coverage. >> being up against a narrative that we weren't doing anything or we were afraid to have interviews is completely bull [bleep] and also, like, took hold a little bit and just gave us another thing we had to fight back for that trump never had to worry about. the questions were small and process-y and about, like -- >> dumb. >> they were not informing a

voter who was trying to listen to learn more. howard: okay journalists ask a lot of inside baseball questions, but for a solid month harris may have done a couple of local outlet interviews, but she refused to do a national tv interview until sitting down with cn's dana bash. that blunder defined her early am campaign, and that's not b.s.. donald trump must be upset with a couple of new york times stories co-authored by maggie haber haberman. he called her a third rate writer, writes story after story always terrible and and yet i republican never speak to her. of now in record fashion, the most consequential election in decades, where is the apology? of course, haberman wrote the definitive biography of trump. i thought the president-elect was going to be mending fences with the press? meanwhile, the "the washington post" says msnbc

fears becoming an all-opinion channel once it is spun off from nbc news as ratings have plunged by 53% in prime time since the trump victory with cnn down 39% in prime. but going in rhyme prime -- prime time the audience for if fox jumped 24% compared to year to date, was the most-watched network news in november and capturing 6 2% of the cable news audience. and in last weekend's dolphins-peat lots game on cbs, a big play was capped off by the trump dance. >> -- gets beaten to the inside. it's just big play after big play. howard: have a good thanksgivinu weekend. ♪ to ensure everything sent on its holiday ride ends with a moment of joy. ♪

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