are watching and the span of history that has covered these light and dark and battles against good and evil over the course of all of history, and we thank you so much for joining us today, and it is a meaningful and important message, but light overcomes the darkness, this we know, and we thank you so much -- >> you got it, martha. blessed christmas. >> martha: you, as well. looks like you have a nice fire and a cozy tree -- >> the snow helps. i'm glad i don't have to drive home in this mess, which makes for a nice christmas card setting. >> martha: cardinal dolan, we thank you so much. st. patrick's cathedral, i was honored to be able to see, as well. continuing coverage of the breaking news in germany. we will see you right back here on monday. "the story" goes on. ♪ ♪ >> hello, i'm charles payne, and this is "your world." we want to g right to magdeburg,

germany, where investigation is underway of a car plowing into a crowd of people. general, obviously it is early. some reports are out, initial report 60-80 people injured, one dead, your first thoughts as they begin the investigation into this? >> well, i saw the video, and it is really horrifying to see, tragic for the families and the people that are injured and killed, and i think it demonstrates really some of the challenges that all western democracies face with so many, such an influx of people that don't really online with our values. terrible tragedy. >> charles: general, there was a similar attack in 2017, 18 easy and citizen crashed into a christmas market in berlin, we n is, they do have the person in custody, but certainly to your point, the video, when people

see this video, they are going to get sick, they are going to get sick. this is a deliberate attempt -- this has been an attempt on humanity itself, and you just have to wonder, what were the security precautions? >> well, that's right, and if you remember, the same thing happened in new york city not too long ago, so you are right, i think we have done a very poor job in providing the technology that would allow for it seems like things like this to be intercepted. these cars are so electronic today, we could have technology that would require them to slow down if they got next to an event. these are things that you can actually do in technology, but again it highlights the danger of bringing in people that harbor these thoughts. >> charles: the berlin attack was 2016, not 2017. apparently there is also an explosive in the car. what can you tell us about that? >> well, i haven't -- i haven't

heard that part of it. if that's the case, just imagine the even bigger tragedy that would have occurred. likely, you know, if there was an explosive in the car, that would have been set to detonate or the person would have detonated it right in the middle of a crowd, so even more casualties. wow, that is shocking. >> charles: an attack on a christmas market days before christmas, the symbolism is very powerful. what does this mean for the state of where we are, particularly western europe, which is grappling with an identity crisis, with fiscal implosion, with the massive changes on a political scene. there is a serious -- the entire continent seems to be in disarray, particularly germany. >> well, and you look at kind of how the world has evolved since the end of the first cold war. you know, there was a widespread belief that peace was going to

rain, and it has progressively gotten worse. one of the worst times in modern history, certainly since world war ii, and i think you are going to see more of these tragedies, and it just reinforces the need for the governments around the world in free societies to step up and do something about the people that are potentially causing these types of attacks, but also to install technology that will allow us to protect people much better. >> charles: to that point, elon musk tweeting about german politics, the leading party there, afd, considered "far right," and yet the people in germany, the folks in france and italy and these other nations, are saying we want a government to protect us, and it feels like there has been a plea for help, and incidents like this are certainly going to increase that plea for the government to

protect its citizens. >> very interesting, elon tweeting that because tesla would have the technology to prevent you from doing attack like this. but he is absolutely right. i think, more importantly, though, i do sense a turning of the narrative, a turning of the tide. i think the recent election in the united states just means you are going to see a domino effect throughout the free world where people i think are fed up, not just in america, but everywhere, and i think this just reinforces that. >> charles: obviously, when there is an act of terror, calculated act of terror, a horrific scene, before the weekend is overcome almost everyone watching will have seen that video. the intent is to break us down, to break our spirits down. how what do you tell people how to counter that? >> well, it is much as these types of attacks. that's what's interesting. you know, i spoke with the cyber

ambassador for taiwan, whose society is daily inundated with polarization messages from the chinese communist party, and one of the things that we spoke about come it's not just attacks like these, but throughout our social media, throughout our media, we do have adversaries that are planting messages that are accelerating, putting accelerant on the flames of polarization, and it is something we have to come to grips with. it is not just these types of attacks, it is the daily, slow erosion of civil society that is being conducted by countries like china, iran, russia, throughout the free world. >> charles: western civilization certainly under attack. general, still say merry christmas, we appreciate your expertise, thank you. all right, folks, let's go to alex hogan with the very latest. alex? >> a lot of breaking developments as we continue to monitor this. as you can see in the shot here, police have descended upon this

christmas market after a car plowed into the crowd and now we are getting some new information, specifically numbers from the police, and they are citing that one person at least is confirmed dead, and that as many as 50 people have been seriously wounded. now that is not accounting for others who might have sustained other types of injuries that are not considered serious or life-threatening, and the police that are saying as many as 50 people have those types of inju. that could range anything from potentially a sprained ankle from running to needing sutures, anything of that sort not life-threatening injuries, but to hear that 50 people are wounded as a result of this is a massive and devastating number. now, there is also a major military presence, as you can see in some of this footage. more than 150 firefighters and rescue personnel are on the scene. regional hospitals have been put on alert for a maximum casualty

events, meaning a lot of these hospitals will need to get their e.r.es ready to receive these victims that will be arriving in those ambulances you can see on screen. local media are reporting the driver of that car was arrested after he had been driving at a high speed toward the town hall, plowing into that crowd earlier tonight. police have cornered off the area where the vehicle is over concerns and suspicions there could be explosives in the vehicle, and that also just goes to show, charles, how significant and how much more devastating this potentially could be if they do end up finding that there were indeed explosives in that vehicle. now i also want to show you a map. this is where all of this took place. this is the eastern german city of magdeburg. it's about two hours outside of berlin. the population in this town is 240,000. but the events there tonight really triggering, as you mentioned earlier on in the show, a painful past. some of the traumatic injuries that happened after an attack

eight years ago. this was in 2016, when a truck drove into a christmas market in berlin and killed a dozen people initially, another person died about five years later because of their injuries. the driver rammed into that christmas market in december, ended up holding come again, 50 people, so a very similar number two what we are seeing tonight. the driver of that vehicle was a to tunisian man. a manhunt, the anniversary of that attack was just two days ago. we are also receiving new information just right now that the german state premier says that the perpetrator is a doctor from saudi arabia. we are also learning that this person is in his 50s. he was actually not known to police. he had not been on their radar. the german state premier also saying that this person reportedly acted alone and that they do not see an ongoing threat, but that there is going

to be, of course, an ongoing investigation, as we just see from these live images right now, just how many ambulances are lined up across the streets, and again, charles, i think it is worth reminding our viewers just how big of an event these christmas markets are around this time of year in germany. it is very much part of the culture for people to go to these events, not only to buy those last-minute christmas gifts ahead of the holidays, but to go spend their evenings, to eat, to drink, to walk around. it's usually in the center of the city, so it'll be be a gathering point for people. in berlin, however, just to show you how many of these christmas market there typically are, there is about 100 christmas markets this year in berlin. practically every corner. there will be more areas cornered off like this for people to go out and enjoy the holidays, look at the lights. there's a lot of those similar markets here in london. germany takes it to another level, so to see what is taking place tonight, it's a

devastating loss for the people of germany to have an attack like this, and it is also alarming for people around the world who would be going to events like this. we are also hearing from local reports that there were barricades that were set up around this market, but the driver somehow was able to get around those. >> charles: alexis, before you go, we are hearing there are two dead, and i think the initial shock here is the driver was a doctor. typically -- we hear someone of a professional nature committing a crime, i doctor committed or took an oath to serve humanity and save people and try to save lives rather than deliberately trying to take them. have they assigned a motive yet? what are you hearing about that? >> we have heard from local officials, that they do believe this was an attack. something we can clearly d doucet this point, seeing the vehicle driving it, there is

of course there is the possibility this could have been driver error, if the driver, for example, had passed out while driving, had some kind of medical condition. there is not a lot of certainty as to that. just given, again, the extent to which the driver was driving, if there were barricades in place, how difficult that would have been to maneuver around come and mentioned, this is extremely alarming to hear this was a doctor, who took an oath to tret people come and hospitals around the region having to deal with the influx people as they try to save as many people as they can. to have 50 people all at once, with minor injuries, as many as 50 others with serious injuries, this is going to be a major challenge for medical workers on the ground. >> charles: i want to go back quickly to these barriers come again i was looking at a security report after that 2016

report, and new york city, we slowly started to see architecture change after 9/11, and originally it was big slabs of concrete in front of buildings so cars couldn't drive into buildings. then it became more elegant. still the purpose was to make sure you cannot pull up any of these sort of incidents. do you have any notion or idea of where these barricades, police barriers, were there any sort of hardened barriers out there to maybe prevent something like this or try to? >> no, well, i haven't seen the photos just yet of what those barriers looked like, but as you mentioned, this is something we are seeing more and more. here in london there are typically barricades. if the markets themselves are already not in an area that cars simply wouldn't be able to get to. so just the act itself of having to get around a barricade really of any size is alarming for people to hear about. it's definitely going to be on the minds of many. we will continue to monitor what

we are looking at, but again, two dead after this devastating, devastating car driving through crowded christmas market tonight and just more information coming out about that. >> charles: without a doubt, the intent was to harm as many people as possible, to your point, and we know now at least 60 are injured. thank you very much. folks, we will have much more on this incident at the christmas market in germany. we will also get the latest in d.c. on that shut down threat that is looming large right after this. lowe's knows that holiday list can stretch further than your budget. with mylowe's rewards... yes. you get member deals and earn points when you shop. so, you can get more and give more too. join my lowe's rewards for free today. lowe's knows how to help you holiday. ♪ over 600,000 usps employees working in sync to ensure everything sent on its holiday ride ends with a moment of joy. ♪

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♪ ♪ >> charles: a german official saying two are dead and dozens injured in a vehicle crash into a christmas market in magdeburg, germany. former fbi assistant director chris recker joins us on the phone. thanks for joining us. your initial reaction. i'm sure you saw the video, just absolutely horrific. in fact, right now 60 injured, two dead, it seems like a blessing, although there are some who are still critically injured. >> yeah, around 2010, when this very type of attack became part of the al qaeda playbook, and we saw a series of these, ramming through all the way 2016, one

that was mentioned earlier on the broadcast, that's what comes to mind first. because of the number of casualties, because of the maneuvering around barriers, it just does not seem like an accidental attack. right now the motivation is going to be presumptively terrorism and it could be scaled back to someone with some sort of mental illness, someone who has a personal beef, and this is the way they took it out, but i'm going towards terrorism right now. this is where it happens, and this is the time of year that it happens. >> charles: to that point, chris, there is possibly an explosive in the car right now. how does that tip the scales toward this being some sort of terrorist attempt, al qaeda or something of that nature? >> very much toward international terrorism. and, again, these people never went away. we have been looking at domestic extremists quite a bit here in

this country, but international terrorism has not gone away, sort of kicked the hornet's nest in middle east, and they have a long-term -- they are playing the long game, if you will. if anyone thinks that terrorism, this type of terrorism is a thing of the past, it's just not true. >> charles: having said that, the soft targets, these obvious targets, the symbolism of a christmas market, just a couple days before christmas itself, what does it say about authority, to those in charge, someone has to recognize these are high-value targeted all you need is a car to create extreme damage. >> right, supposedly stricter gun control in europe, and we have seen quite a few of these attacks over the years, and this is, you know, this is hard-core terrorism.

this is mass casualties, as we see here, 60 people. it is predictable. and that means it is preventable, to your point, but this is the conundrum with security, which is a field that i work in now. if you don't have a terrorist attack or you don't have anything bad happen for a period of time, people tend to relax and get complacent come include people responsible for the counterterrorism and security. it wouldn't be shocking to see they didn't have all the safeguards that you may have seen post 9/11 running up to around the 2010 time frame. we see bollards all the time now, it became standard around buildings, all over d.c., barriers and bollards. i haven't seen the scene there, but i understand this truck or vehicle had to get around some barriers. but apparently, you know, there wasn't anything else in their way, other than just some easily maneuverable or escapable

barriers. >> charles: a friend of mine just went over to homburg come at a homburg christmas market right now, homburg, she is railing against the political climate that she feels has been too much appeasement, if you will. obviously germany going through a major sea change with respect to what the citizens are like, leadership. getting to that part of it, the policy, and how to really tamp down on even -- never say anyone is encouraging this, but certainly not pushing back on it hard enough. >> absolutely. i mean, terrorism in any form, whether international or domestic, we have to have visible deterrence. when we see it rear its ugly head, we have to address it right away, and one thing we do need here in the united states is a domestic terrorism statute, which we don't have. we were doing good

internationally and domestically with terrorism for a while, but this could be the beginning. >> charles: how surprised are you that the suspect, who has been arrested, the driver who has been arrested, is a doctor in his 50s from saudi arabia, a doctor, someone who took an oath, trained to save people, not kill them. >> yeah, we have seen other doctors high up in al qaeda. others who are -- i mean, the bin laden family, very prominent family, so it is not unusual to see someone in the middle east that grows up in privilege go 360 degrees the other way, and rebel against the system, if you will, go back to fundame fundamentalists, al qaeda-type philosophy, or mind-set. this is not new. >> charles: chris, before i let you go, what should authorities there at these christmas markets across europe,

obviously you don't want to shut them down, but what should they be doing over next -- between now and christmas? >> yeah, i can guarantee you they will tighten up. and we will do it in this country, as well. there will be more barriers. there will be more police cars in the way. there will be more security, if you will. this is indeed the time of year where it is the symbolism of this time of year, where international terrorists tend to look for that symbolism and get that bigger, broader message in the media coverage that goes along with it. >> charles: chris, thank you very much. we will keep following this developing story throughout the hour. you are watching "your world." known for creating memories. no one wants to be known for cancer, but a treatment can be. keytruda is known to treat cancer. fda-approved for 17 types of cancer, including certain early-stage and advanced cancers.

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the votes. a live update next.

♪ ♪ >> charles: t-8 hours and counting. a government shutdown closing in unless lawmakers on capitol hill can figure this out. another vote is expected. chad pergram on capitol hill with the very latest. chad? >> good afternoon, charles. it is a threeville approach to avoid a government shutdown. want to fund through mid-march, another for emergency farm assistance, and a separate bill costing $110 billion in disaster aid. >> try to go with a suspension, that is what we voted on. >> the disaster relief? >> it is a clean cr with barmaid and disaster release. >> summed republicans debated whether they should let the government shutdown but in his e senate, outgoing senate minority

leader mitch mcconnell warned against that. >> i don't care if you count how many times i've reminded our colleagues and our house counterparts how harmful it is to shut the government down. when you try to use normal government function as a bargaining chip, you pay a political price. >> most lawmakers load interim spending bills, but they have extra adverse impacts on the military. that's because congress spends more money on the military than anything else. that means renewing spending at all levels, penalizes the pentagon. >> just past the damn appropriation bills. crs are terrible speaking as the ranking member of the house armed armed services committee, they're devastating to the defense department. over half the discretionary budget, they don't get to spend for the future. >> even if the house votes

tonight, must sync up, if they get agreement, could move very fast. government funding expires at 12:01 a.m. eastern saturday, a coalition of democrats and republicans required to pass. back to you. >> charles: thank you very much, chad. so how does my next guest plentiful? texas republican congressman beth van duyne. beth, you were a "no" on the original package. you posted you were always a know in these gargantuan spending packages. now it is going to be broken up into three parts. let's talk about the so-called clean bill that takes us through mid-march. how does it look to you? >> look, i have voted against, we call them clean crs because what we're doing is continuing the same level of crazy spending that put us into this position that we are in with $36 trillion of debt and 20% inflation. we just finished a campaign where i think republicans were very effective and american people were very clear, it is the economy stupid.

stop the government overspending, stop the waste. this bill doesn't do anything like that. the first thing we do when we come back after the election, the first major piece of bill, legislation we are voting on, continuing the same level of nancy pelosi spend as if we are still in the pandemic, and we have got to stop that. it is not responsible, it is not the way we should be moving forward. >> charles: for years, it worked. take a poll, 99% of people hate congress and 99% of people vote their own representative back in because they bring back a bridge to nowhere. time has changed on main street, wonder when it changes in the halls of congress. >> i think what you saw this past election is people want different business. they don't want business as usual. we sit here year after year, lather rinse repeat, where we find ourselves up against the deadline and we are sitting here forced to vote on things we should be much more thoughtful in not voting on. this level of spending has got to stop and that is why i voted against it last night.

we can have a legitimate discussion about lifting the debt ceiling, as long as it is paired with legitimate cost cuts. and we had great conversation this morning, the vp elect j.d. vance was with us in the speaker's office, there for over three hours, we had a great conversation this morning about what that would look like. we don't have time right now to have those discussions when you are facing a government shutdown in t-how many hours? this should have been done weeks ago. the house was actually able to pass a number of its appropriation rules, send it over to the senate, said it wasn't able to pass one appropriations bill. that is got to stop. than the senate is going to turn around and say, house, is your fault. we have to pass an appropriations bill in good order and stop facing this against the wall, in the corner, recently year. >> charles: so inside your own party it feels like you put three particular branches or groups of folks. those are serious cutting spending, smaller government,

opening up growth, the private sector, those who want to go even further than that, and those who are status quo, just moments ago you heard senator mcconnell saying this is a horrible thing. he is always trend to preach to the house, you blow it when you start down the government politically. are you willing to take a political -- pay a political price to do would you believe is right? >> i think you need to say what you are going to do and then to what you are going to say. all of the republicans that that we have got to maintain -- to not maintain, that we have to get control of this crisis spending, one of the worst national security threats that we see, that we are hampering the future of our country. we are putting this albatross on the next of our kids and our grandkids, and we have to rein that spending. this continued level of spend, which is exactly what a continuing resolution is, is not what we just promised the american people that we were going to do. again, we had months to discuss this. we had a senate uncooperative and not willing to work with us at all on giving us any

appropriation bills and passing their spending cuts, and then we are here right before christmas, facing a government shutdown. it shouldn't happen again. lather, rinse, repeat. we are better than this. we owe the american people. just because the senate won't pass this, it's crazy. the senate has just been fired. not only has this senate lost hearts and minds of the american people, but they also lost the majority, so in a few weeks we are going to have a senate that is a majority of republicans, and there is a reason why. >> charles: in the meantime, though, about seven hours to go to try to get some thing resolved there. congressman beth van duyne, thank you very much. these continuing resolutions, that is the part, the cr part, remember, we are talking about a debt ceiling, a ceiling is something in your house you can't go above it, right, it is a horrible thing, you can't get through it. yes what? since 1960, you know how many times we have gone above that debt ceiling? 78 times. this is nuts. i have a rule in place if you break it every time.

and then when you break it, you have to do the horse trading. that is when you get so-called christmas tree things. they started adding things on there that are completely unnecessary. 78 times. have to say, a pox on both parties. ironically enough, it has happened more often under republicans. 49 times on the republicans. again, you get things in there like this pay hike. you talk about main street being just outraged, on both sides, it is rare you can bring both sides of our nations together but this pay hike that congress is going to give itself, just as so many people are suffering from inflation, just a prime example of why having this place in and of itself might be one of the biggest problems, because it creates negotiating things that come down to the wire, and they become political. it is not real resolution. we elect leaders in our country to result things. we elect them to solve problems. that's what we try to do. all right, folks, so fair and balanced, we want to bring in california democratic,

congressman -- congressman. so a number of democrats are saying we have to go back to go to the original bipartisan deal. i was just railing against that a moment ago. it is packed. critics call it pork. that is what it is called. what do you want? >> you know, i think the american people want us to fund the government. i think the american farmers want to do an extension of the farm bill. and folks that got hit by disasters in north carolina, south carolina, and my home state of california, florida, want us to provide disaster relief. we can come back and negotiate. i am all about negotiating and trying to get the deficit under control, but right now, let's do the critical stuff. we have to get that. >> charles: let's pick up on that very moment. we all want to be prepared for disasters and back-to-back hurricanes were a reminder. do we have to put $110 billion to it right now? if you are confident about that,

why not have a separate vote? >> well, i'm okay with that, but again, it looks like speaker johnson negotiating with leader jeffries is putting that altogether. it is what the president requested, so let's get that across the finish line. it has small business loans in there. it will help our military, et cetera. again, when we come back in the next congress, the republicans will be in charge, so reach out, let's meet at the 50-yard line, and we can look at each program by program, the ones that make sense, we can cut, the ones that are really good, let's build up on those. >> charles: by the way, want to let the audience know, the vote will between between 5:00 and 5:30. the clock is ticking. christmas is a few days away, no one wants to see this happen, although may be the rhetoric is harsher than the reality. at least, a lot of times, it has been. we just had a sound bite of representative adam smith, articulating again these continuing resolutions and the impact that they have, for instance, on the military.

is there, would you be willing to say let's get rid of the debt ceiling, and this way we can get rid of the political drama and this theater, and may be get down to really governing this nation? >> well, i think these continuing resolutions really are a bad idea. what we should do is actually our job, which is put together a budget, put together the 12 appropriations bills, and then bring those to the floors, get those past, get them over to the senate, get them to the president's desk. again, republicans will be in charge when we come back. with a narrow majority of house, though, we are going to have to negotiate. we have to look for places to get spending under control. i will be sitting there with them. >> charles: representative bera, thank you come appreciate it. >> thank you, be well. >> charles: we have to get back to magdeburg, germany, and what we're finding out, the additional information, a car crash into a christmas market there. you are watching "your world."

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♪ ♪ >> charles: so we are monitoring this developing story out of germany right now. a car crashing into a christmas market crowd there. what further develop missed we have? we want to go to alex hogan standing by with the very latest. alex? >> hi, charles. we are learning more about the victims of magdeburg, including two who have been confirmed dead. one of them was a small child. this after a car rammed into a crowded christmas market in an eastern german city. police tonight have one person in custody, with the regional governor saying that this was a man in his 50s who is a doctor from saudi arabia, who had been living in the country for the better half of the last two decades. the regional governor tonight is saying this was an isolated event, that there should be no further attacks. that is not stopping other christmas markets tonight from closing as people are seeing these images, scared of what

potentially could happen in other places. despite that, german officials say this perpetrator acted alone, but we know there are going as many as 60 other peope are wounded and 15 have serious conditions, with german officials tonight, charles, saying that death toll could liy continue to ride. charles? >> charles: i got you. thank you very much. and we will have a lot more right after this. with dexcom g7, managing your diabetes just got easier. so, what's your glucose number right now?

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♪ ♪ >> charles: as we told you moments ago, we are learning that the house will vote on that stopgap bill within the next hour appeared fox business' grady trimble is with us now with the very latest from capitol hill. grady? >> hey, charles. here is the timeline as we understand it. we are expecting the house to reconvene at any minute now, and that we expect boats to start anywhere between 5:00 and 5:30, of course the timeline is fluid, as is all of this whole process, and also we just learned that house democrats are going to hold a meeting behind closed doors right around 5:00, probably going to be a quick meeting to see where things stand on their side, and then they will take part in these votes. just to recap how we got here, you saw that 1500 plus page bill torpedoed, that around 100 plus

page bill was voted down yesterday. that had a provision in it to raise the debt ceiling. this latest bill that we are expecting the house to vote on any minute now, or at least in the next 45 minutes or so, does not have a provision till raise e debt ceiling. what it does is it funds the government, keeps it open until around march, so they might have to revisit this, but it also provides disaster relief for those hurricane victims and aid for farmers. again, we are expecting this vote anytime soon, at any time now, i should say. it has been quite a saga getting here. the house leadership on the g.o.p. side is much more optimistic about this one. g.o.p. members in the house but behind closed doors for an hour and a half to two hours today, it seems like they hashed out their differences and came to a consensus that this bill, with these provisions in it, to fund the government, provide aid for farmers, and to provide relief for hurricane victims, is the way forward. one single bill, one single

vote, and they need two-thirds of the house to vote in favor of it in order for it to come over here to the senate side, and that's important, charles, because it's going to require some democrats to get on board. we'll know soon enough if they do. charles? >> charles: the clock is ticking. i saw the american relief act or something like that come i didn't know they named all of these things, but that is a terrible name, particularly for this. the clock is ticking. thanks come a grady come appreciate it. now the spending issue is especially important, because inflation, the nation is still in the grips of inflation. we have chicago fed present austan goolsbee with us next. (husband) we just want to have enough money for retirement. (wife) and travel to visit our grandchildren. (fisher investments) i understand. that's why at fisher investments we start by getting to know each other. so i can learn about your family, lifestyle, goals and needs, allowing us to tailor your portfolio. (wife) what about commission- based products? (fisher investments) we don't sell those. we're a fiduciary, obligated to act in your best interest.

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>> mike >> charles: it was a very volatile week, the volatility began after the federal reserve cut rates which is what wall street wanted to bn they change their mind about a whole lot of things in wall street went haywire. i want to bring in one of the key members of the federal reserve austin goolsby, chicago federal serve bank president. policy uncertainty had you shift your thoughts on rate cuts, is that fiscal policy they're talking about? >> it's great to see you again, charles. it was policy uncertainty and uncertainty over inflation, a

lot of geopolitical events. all of those things are why i shifted how steep the curve would be, how fast we would reduce the rates. i want to emphasize i don't think the destination has really changed. i think over the next 12 to 18 months, rates can stand to come down a fair amount. >> charles: you use the term "judicious amount" although the fed went in prior productions does it two rate cuts, is it judicial or are you out of step with your colleagues here? >> no, judicious means it's going to be determined by conditions is a lot of question marks, you know that. what we've seen around we've been reminded by these geopolitical events like what's happening in germany. there's a lot of uncertainty when the new president comes in, what is he going to propose? what is he going to pass?

all of these things will sort out. if a rate cuts were in the second half of 2025 for the first half of 2026, to me that's not the big story. over the last year and a half, inflation is weighed down and we didn't have a recession that a lot of the prognosticator said was coming eric out i think if we can capitalize, we've now had an uptick in business confidence since the election. if we can maintain a growth rate with inflation still coming down, that's how you get on the path to go faster. >> charles: let me pick up on that, we haven't had an official recession but here's my concern about where the federal reserve is in policy. these interest rates are higher for longer, money markets we've seen trillions of dollars going to money markets, hundreds of billions of dollars are being paid outcome of the wealthiest folks out there get this money,

they spend it. they learned last year the top 20% at 44% of the spending, the top 40% to 70% of the spending, they've got the money, they got assets. but 60% of this nation, i think they are in a recession. i think in november they went to the vote they said to the world we are starving, we are hurting. fed policy is restrictive to a majority of this nation, how do you square that circle? i understand the intent but the real problem feels like unless really rich people start to suffer, everyone else credit card rates are going to keep going up from 15% to 22% t. >> charlie: your right to be thinking about the whole economy. the law gives the fed a very specific mandate to maximize employment and stabilize prices. we really only have the one tool of rates to do that. there are some subtleties that they have to be done by fiscal policy, the fed can't do that.

on rates, i think if we keep performing decently well in terms of growth as the new administration comes in and inflation keeps coming down, the rates can come down. it sounds like your view is if rates are too high for too long, that's going to hurt a lot of people. and i do think that's right. if we are too restrictive to a longer, it going to hurt people. i think the key of getting us back down to 2% inflation as was the goal is the thing that's going to allow us to cut rates. >> charles: don't have a lot of time, less than a minute. the confidence that jay powell exuded about the labor market does not fit what i'm seeing from how hard it is to find a job, job postings on indeed, the rate of the reports, those kinds of things, are you as confident as powell is about that labor market?

speak of the forbid me from talking about what anybody else thinks, i will just talk about me. i have concerns about the labor market, but i do feel like the last three or four months, we have kind of stabilized at something like full employment. i do find that encouraging. layoffs, there's still not a lot of evidence of increase in layoffs. >> charles: the problem is going to be rehiring. >> great to see you again. >> charles: will put word he here. neil cavuto, this is his chair he's a great friend, great mentor, i don't think many people realize how great of a human being he is and i wish him well in his journey, i think and for -- thank you for everything he did, i love you and good luck with everything. ♪ ♪