bs right now in the roll call, going to be one of the first indications we may be in for drama this afternoon. >> okay come i don't know how close we are. let's listen. >> johnson. >> carson. carson. carter of georgia. >> mike johnson. >> johnson. carter of louisiana. >> hakeem jeffries. >> jeffries. carter of texas. johnson. cassar. >> jeffries. >> jeffries. case. jeffries. kasten. >> jeffries.

>> jeffries. castor of florida. jeffries. castro of texas. jeffries. jeffries. >> hakeem jeffries. >> jeffries. >> mike johnson. >> johnson. >> cisneros. jeffries. clark of massachusetts. jeffries. clark of new york. jeffries. jeffries. johnson. cloud. cloud.

clyburn. >> jeffries. >> jeffries. clyde. clyde. cohen. >> all right, high drama on capitol hill as house speaker mike johnson tries to keep the e been listening live, the house is voting right now on his speakership. this happens to be the first vote. there are some members who believe this will go into multiple rounds of voting. tempetim burchett sending out at just moments ago. right now johnson is scary staring down a difficult path to gain the gavel despite endorsement from president-elect donald trump who has asked republicans to fall in line. the question right now, will they? hello and welcome everyone. i'm sandra smith in new york. bret, great to have you with us today. >> bret: thank you, sandra. it's history. i'm bret baier in for

john roberts. this is "america reports." republicans hold a historically narrow house majority. the 119 congress. mike johnson from louisiana, hakeem jeffries the democrat from new york. the math is tricky for johnson because several g.o.p. hard-liners are on the fence about supporting him. only two defections from his party could take his chances, or at least could cause another ballot. this is the first ballot. it is alphabetical. and now they are getting into democrats and republicans, we know that one republican lawmaker has already said he will vote no, thomas massie, so we watch and wait and listen. aishah hasnie is doing the same from capitol hill. hi, aishah. >> bret come i'm try to keep track on some of these members we are following carefully, some of these holdouts, folks that were undecided, and like you said, thomas massie is going to be a "no." no one else so far has voted against johnson, no one else has

put up a different name but things are getting a bit suspenseful at this hour because there are a few members that have been passed over. they decided not to vote. the first one was andy biggs. this is a big one. he did not say anything. he did not say johnson, did not see anyone else's name. he is apparently leaning on the back rail of the house floor right now. he has been one of those noncommitted folks. he wanted to talk to johnson privately about the budget, but regular order, and we didn't know how he was going to vote. we still don't. the clerk will come back to him at the end of the alphabetic order roll call and then ask him one more time, and then we will find out where his vote lies, but andy biggs was the first one that is spelling trouble for mike johnson. another one is representative cloud. he also had his name skipped over. and some of the other ones that we were watching were tim burchett, as well as congressman clyde and crane.

they have voted for johnson, so that is good news for mike johnson. he has been able to make some strides amongst some of these members who were up until the very last second telling us that they weren't sure how they were going to vote, so he has been able to bring those people in, but again just reminding you of that ominous tweet by tim burchett, just right before this all started, saying he believes this is going to go into multiple rounds, that makes you question what he knows, if he has had a private conversation with one of his other members that has told him that perhaps they are going to vote for someone else, so we shall see shortly. we are keeping track. a couple more of these house freedom caucus members to go, watching very, very carefully, but again, andy biggs as well as congressman cloud and clyde did not vote. so we will see after this roll call is over how, where they fall. brett? >> bret: aishah, thanks.

biggs, crane, cloud, all house freedom caucus did not answer. the clerk will come back alphabetically after all of the names are read and we will go back to the people who do not answer. so we will see their answer at that point, if they say present, then we are headed to another ballot. >> sandra: a live look at the house lower and brooke kelly live on our skin, karl rove joining, former white house deputy chief of staff and a fox news contributor. cakarl, that news coming woman o congressman biggs inning on house rail, your thoughts as this comes together? >> we have three, bigs, clyde, cloud. cloud of texas, clyde of georgia, and biggs of arizona who could hold the fate. >> johnson in their hands. they are going to wait till the end and may be joined by other

member's of the freedom caucus, chip roy of texas is likely, i suspect, to join them come and how they decide to go at the end of this will decide whether we have multiple ballots or whether we have speaker johnson, and regardless they will have expressed their authority, their power, if you will, in being able to decide matters in the house of representatives. this is not a team. it is a group of rivals who all have an r behind their name but let's not kid ourselves, they are not a united group today. >> bret: karl, what does that say? and what message do you think they are sending, knowing there is not a plan b here, that there is not another speaker in waiting that has anywhere near the votes that johnson has? >> well, i think there is no simple answer to that. i think some people have different answers. some people are hard-liners on spending and they want concessions that will absolutely guarantee the congress is not able to do things like pass a

budget, in other words, they want deep spending cuts. they are not going to get the votes of most of the republicans or many republicans, and certainly no votes of any democrats. some of them want power. representative roy has made clear he wants to be named rules committee chairman, which in essence would put him, if you will, the conductor of the house, the rules committee has a one-person republican majority, so if he decides he doesn't like what the leadership is recommending for the consideration of a bill, he can vote with the democrats, and that bill will not come up, and others simply like attention. to me, i think it is a good sign that they have not voted thus far no, but they are waiting until the end. they could make a statement at the end about the power that they hold, you know, the leverage that they have as the difference between republicans winning and losing on measures, without defeating johnson. but if they do cause a second or third ballot, the only problems are going to be those that have

flipped the republicans, not the democrats. the democrats are hoping there are multiple ballots because even if johnson is ultimately selected, as i think he will be, he will be weakened by having to go multiple ballots. >> sandra: leading up to this vote, karl, we have seen johnson's allies airing their frustration very publicly of their more right-wing colleagues, reading directly from greg murphy, the republican from north carolina come anybody who is voting against the speaker to try to get personal favors or to try to get publicity needs to rethink why they are in congress. we heard a lot of frustration like that, karl, leading up to this moment. >> i understand it because it is not just simply a question -- these are not universally people that are to the right of the rest of the caucus. i mean -- >> anyone is a libertarian, not really a normal republican, he is a libertarian and has always been true to those principles, but there are many deeply conservative members of the

house who are supporting johnson who himself is a deeply conservative member, and yet the are other conservatives who say i am not voting for him because he made the mistake of passing a measure with democrats who voted for it. well, when you've got a narrow margin like this, you are going to be put in places where you have to sit down with the opposition, particularly if you have come as the republicans have come a substantial group of people who since the moment they came to congress, in some instances decades ago, have never voted for continuing resolution or debt ceiling increase. the reality is you have to get things done, and if part of your team says no way i'm ever voting for that kind of thing, you are going to have to do a deal with the other side. the question is are you going to have a leader who is a solid conservative, as mike johnson has been since the moment he took the oath of office as a freshman member from louisiana? or are you going to, in essence, have chaos for the next year, year and a half, which will

absolutely guarantee the republicans don't hold the house in 2026? >> bret: just look at how tight this is. this is johnson 82 votes to jeffries 83, 81 now. biggs, cloud, clyde, and now gosar have all said nothing. they have not voted. they are going to come back around at the end. maybe this is their standoff to say hey, we are serious, and then they come around to voting. we don't know that yet. massie, when we get to the ms, has said he is going to be a "no" or he will be a present or and other, vote for someone else, so that means there could only be one more, just continue the math. let's listen back in for a few minutes here. >> johnson. >> higgins of louisiana. johnson. hill of arkansas. johnson. himes. >> jeffries.

>> jeffries. hinson. >> mike johnson. >> johnson. horsford. jeffries. houchin. >> mike johnson. >> johnson. houlahan. >> jeffries. >> jeffries. hoyer. jeffries. hoyer of oregon. hakeem jeffries. hudson. johnson. huffman. jeffries. huizenga. johnson. >> bret: we have biggs, cloud, clyde, gosar who have not voted yet. in your op-ed on your predictions, you said what comes after the chaos of 24, at least one of the incoming president's controversial nominees, tulsi gabbard, pete hegseth,

robert f. kennedy jr., kash patel doesn't make it, that is your prediction. speaker mike johnson is reelected though it is ugly, tardy five or more house republicans oppose raising the debt ceiling forcing mr. trump and g.o.p. congressional leaders to negotiate with democrats this spring. i said earlier in the last show that when you are operating with this slim a majority, you can make stance. you can make, you know, a pushback on policy. but you have to realize that there is no alternative. there is no place to go after that. and you wonder whether some of the ones standing up like this today, if they do in the end come understand that plan b. [applause] >> i think some do, and look, and i want to make a point, there are a lot of people who were equally conservative as the four names that you just mentioned, who are nonetheless voting for johnson because they see themselves as a key member. but yes, you are right, there

are people who for a variety of reasons want to make a public statement, feel that they are the true believers and their job in life is to set a standard of extreme adherence to conservative beliefs that are not at the end of the day practical when it comes to legislating. with a narrow majority. what that means is by and voting though they are voting with a democrats. by opposing johnson, they are voting with the democrats. by opposing rules on a set pattern they are voting with the democrats. they may say that they are the true believers but it is ironic that when their votes get counted, their votes get counted along with a lot of democrats. >> sandra: all right, so at this point we should probably dip back in here and listen live on the house floor as this vote continues. you see the tally on the left there. let's listen live on the house floor for a few minutes.

>> jeffries. >> jeffries. kelly of illinois. jeffries. kelly of mississippi. johnson. kelly of pennsylvania. johnson. kennedy of new york. >> hakeem jeffries. >> jeffries. kennedy of utah. >> mike johnson. >> johnson. khana. >> hakeem jeffries. >> jeffries. kiggans of virginia. johnson. kai li of california. johnson. kim. johnson. knott. johnson. krishnamoorthi. >> jeffries! >> jeffries. kustoff.

johnson. lahood. johnson. lalota. johnson. lamalfa. johnson. landsman. jeffries. langworthy. johnson. larsen of washington. jeffries. larson of connecticut. jeffries. latimer. jeffries. latta. johnson. lawler >> the honorable mike johnson. >> johnson. lee of florida. johnson. lee of nevada.

jeffries. lee of pennsylvania. jeffries. leger fernandez. >> hooking jeffries. >> jeffries. letlow. johnson. levin. jeffries. liccardo. jeffries. liue. jeffries. lofgren. jeffries. loudermilk. johnson. lucas. johnson peered luna. johnson. luttrell.

lynch. johnson. mackenzie. johnson. magziner. jeffries. malliotakis. johnson. maloy. johnson. mann. johnson. mnnnion. jeffries. massie. >> tom emmer. >> emmer. [indistinct conversation] >> bret: okay, so that is thomas massie, and he has voted for bob ever for speaker. so that is another person, you see that 1 there, that was predicted. you can't have another republican go the other way, otherwise we are going to another ballot at the end. remember there are five members

have not responded yet. four g.o.p.es, biggs, cloud, . they could come at the end and vote, but if they don't it puts the magic number, the total number at 429 instead of 434 and that means the magic number would be 215 so there is a number of ways this can go just by process. and they could not vote and he could still win with a majority of 215. but it is a dangerous game when you start playing this because hakeem jeffries can also g get a 215. and that is where this is. >> and what happens of carson's shows up, the democrat and the four republicans don't show up, you could theoretically have 216 democrats, 215 republicans, which would be a very uncomfortable moment. >> sandra: is an algebraic

equation. we keep so many were saying give us the magic number, the number changes on a lot of different scenarios, karl. >> yes, absolutely. if i were a betting person, and i am not, but if i were betting, i would bet a number of those republicans are just waiting to make a statement at the end, saying to johnson, in essence, count on us, we support on you in order to avoid disaster, but don't count on us on each and every vote, you are going to have to act in a conciliatory fashion to us skin in the game. >> bret: i think the real question here, karl, with the slim majority, how much can they deal with? is it going to be this one budget reconciliation effort that puts everything in one pot? because they may not have too many bites at the apple with a slim majority.

>> well, you are right. that is a problem, however if you have one budget reconciliation, here is where we are going to nerd out about congress, you have one -- >> bret: chat is not even here. >> yeah. [laughs] you got to cover immigration, of which there is a general consensus inside the republicans, and you have to cover the tax bill, which no tax bill can be easily and quickly done. take president trump's 2017 tax bill signed on december 22nd of 2017. it took all year to write it. we had a tax cut in 2001 under george w. bush and it took virtually i think almost the same amount of time. and that is with a much larger majority. so when you get into writing a tax bill, for example, you are going to have republicans from high tax states like new york and new jersey and california wanting to reinstitute what is called salt, special benefit for people in high tax states for

the homeowners taxes. the there are going to be some people who say i am in favor of a tax cut on social security checks and some republicans saying no, so it is going to take a long time. one budget reconciliation act means there is no early victories. two budget reconciliation act means you probably have a pretty good shot at getting it immigration, border control, border security package done earlier in the year and the house ways and means committee and the senate finance committee have more time to come to an agreement among themselves and between themselves over what the shape of the tax cut bill is going to look like. >> bret: all right, karl, standby, please. >> sandra: newt gingrich is joining our coverage, fox news political analyst and former speaker of the house. mr. speaker, you have been with us listening, watching, speaker of the house mike johnson's fate hangs in the balance peered your thoughts as he sounded very optimistic heading into this, saying "i think we get it done on the first round" i'm for certainly hopeful for that. he said they have got to stick

together. will republicans stick together in this moment? >> well, if i had to guess, i think they will stick together, except for massie, who is off on his own planet. but i think virtually everyone understands that president trump is going to have any chance of being effective, he's got to be able to get things through the house. and i think what karl rove just said is essentially right. my guess is there will be two reconciliation bills. we did that when i was speaker in 1997. one will come very early and basically be the border and a few other things. the other well, i hope before the fourth of july. i recognize the challenges of writing a tax bill, but for the purpose of the 2026 election, the republicans have a desperate need to get the economy growing fast enough that they be rewarded rather than punished in

the off year. there are a lot of things hanging in the balance. every vote is going to be close, but remember come in the house, you can find a 1-vote majority, that is all you need, it is not like the senate, there is no filibuster. one vote -- and nancy pelosi showed with a 4-vote majority that she could ram through all sorts of stuff. republicans are harder to manage and harder to lead, they are much more independent than democrats. i have to say, i can't imagine doing speaker johnson's job. i was a reasonably effective speaker in a different time and with a different majority. what he does every day is like job. he listens and he listens and he listens, and he is dealing with a group of contrarians who if you said i agree with you totally, would say let me tell you this other thing i want. and i think at some point you have to draw a line and say look you are either with donald trump or you are not. there is not a massie majority.

there is a trump majority. the american people didn't endorse massie, they endorsed trump, and i think the conference has to understand that if they are going to be successful, they have to be a team. this is a team sport and if you are not going to be a team, you are not going to succeed. >> bret: mr. speaker, it is bret. i think you are selling yourself short on your speakership, but i will say that this team is not sticking together right now. ralph norman has voted for jim jordan. that is the number two on the screen there. so now you have thomas massie and ralph norman, and if they don't change those votes before the end of this vote, and the others don't way in, you cannot lose these two, and it would mean a second ballot, which is why you see speaker johnson looking a little nervous sitting next to steve scalise. what does that tell you, big picture here?

you mentioned the democrats and nancy pelosi who we saw hakeem jeffries go across the aisle and hug when her name was listed. she managed to put a lot through with a 4-seat majority but it is tougher to herd the cats with republicans. >> yeah, what you have here, i used to joke teddy kennedy would get awake in the morning and say the answer is more money, what's the question? you have a handful of republicans who get awake every morning and say i'm voting no, what's the issue? they are contrarians. and you can't have a contrarian caucus with a very, very narrow margin. you were kind about my speakership but i have a much bigger majority, and we had a country which was decisive. the question i would ask both norman and massie, so what is part two? other than helping hakeem jeffries and hurting donald trump, what do you think you are completion? i don't see what the second act is. they might feel good and get some media, be able to raise

some money but they are doing it at the cost of the country. the country gave a mandate not to massie, it didn't give a mandate to anybody else except donald trump. and i think for them to undermine this on the opening day is almost suicidally stupid. and i can't explain it except that over the years, and karl watched all of this and lived with it in the bush white house, over the years there has been a group in the party who have grown more and more hostile. more and more self-righteous. dave winston just wrote a great piece today about the history i lasted for years and even though we balance the budget, reformed welfare, cut taxes, by the end of it, there was a hard hard-core group of about 18 that were just tired. john boehner won a huge majority, bigger than i did, and after they got tired. paul ryan got so disgusted he left.

the guy who actually created the current majority come a kevin mccarthy, was in a constant running war with about eight or ten members. a small group is congealed into a very hostile, very destructive group. fine if you are the opposition party, but astonishingly stupid if you are the governing party, and somehow trump and others, j.d. vance may have a big job cut out for him, deficit these guys down and explain to them, if that means trump goes and holds rallies in everyone of their their districts, and mounts a tremendous effort to replace them, whatever it takes, you cannot have a hostile contrarian negative group if you are going to try to govern. >> sandra: bret come if we could bring our viewers through what is happening right now, as it has been looking more and more likely that it appears mike johnson will be falling short, although we do caution there are two vote against johnson by name -- >> bret: now three. >> sandra: there is three?

that just came in. we cannot definitively say this is going to a second ballot yet. however, it is starting to look as if he is falling short, and they will go back to these members after this vote tally happens. >> bret: right, and it does not matter, if it holds is one vote for jordan, one vote for emmer, and one-vote for donald's now. against him, it was not donald's who voted that way, it was self who voted for donald's for speaker, but three against him by name, this is going to a second ballot, he will fall short, and we are getting to the end of the roll call here, so unless they switch their votes, we are going to see a second ballot, which if we remember back in 2023 how painful this process was for republicans, to go through, mr. speaker, there were four days, four days of,

you know, these votes. >> look, i use this language very deliberately. these people are insanely destructive. what is around 2 going to be? one guy gets 186 votes right now, another guy gets three -- three people get one each? so what is around 2 going to be like? the same three guys are going to hold out and they are going to hold out forever? it is certainly a constitutional right, they are independent the elected, but let's be clear, this is a stunningly stupid, suicidal strategy, which only weakens the republican party, weakens president trump, makes it harder to fix america, and these guys need psychologists. i don't know what they think they are accomplishing in the real world except to make a spectacle out of this thing. now i hope that at least two of them will switch. i think massie is probably

utterly, totally hopeless. he is sufficiently certain of his moral rights and his brilliant insights. i don't think he will move under any circumstances. but i would hope the other two realized they are going to look like idiots. it is not going to change. the party is not going to go oh, gee, 214 of us were right -- 215 of us were right, but you three, you have convinced us on the second ballot, let's do something else. i have been at this business, as you know, a long time. really, literally, as self-destructive as i have ever seen a political party b, and it is down to a handful of people. everyone else's trying to get it to work. everyone. moderate, conservative, freedom caucus, you name it, they are all trying to get it to work except for a very tiny handful. >> sandra: mr. speaker, considering the way this is going right now, we heard voting for byron donalds, 40 for

someone other than mike johnson, if it just doesn't go away for mike johnson, what is this forecasting about the next couple of years? >> it's going to be tough. it's always going to be tough because the margin is too narrow in the house. the only way president trump can govern successfully at home is to arouse the american people the way reagan did and friendly the way we did with the contract with america. when we passed welfare reform, we got half the democrats to vote with us because it was so popular. when we passed four consecutive balanced budgets, we got democratic votes because it was so popular. when reagan passed his big tax cut, he got 47 democratic votes because it was so popular. so trump will have to go to the country and find a way to so arouse citizens that citizens put so much pressure on moderate democrats were up for election next year that he can build a bipartisan coalition on his

terms for his issues. that is the only possible way to manage a house that is this narrowly divided, particularly when you have a handful of people who would rather help the democrats then help the republicans. >> bret: we should just point out again about these numbers come as you see it is 206-200 now, three have voted by name for another option, three republicans, and there are others who have not voted either way. you have a situation where if every democrat shows up, which should be 215, the magic number could be 215 depending on what the total number is voting. so you have the final go back around to the people who didn't vote, and this is going to come down to the wire. let's listen in and see how this starts to wrap up here? >> johnson. webster of florida.

johnson. westerman. johnson. whitesides. >> jeffries. >> jeffries. wied. williams of georgia. hakeem jeffries. williams of texas. johnson. wilson of florida. >> hakeem jeffries. >> jeffries. wilson of south carolina. johnson. whitman. johnson. womack. johnson. yakym. johnson. zinke.

johnson. >> for what purpose does the general lady from the virgin islands seek recognition? >> today's vote, representatives from the american samoa, guam, northern mariana, puerto rico, the virgin islands, and the district of columbia were not called. representing collectively 4 million americans. [applause] mr. speaker, collectively, the

largest per capita of veterans in this country. >> does the general lady had -- >> i ask why they were not called. [overlapping discussion] >> the general lady is recognized. >> i asked why they were not called from the parliamentarian, please. >> delicate select and do resident commissioner elect are not qualified to vote. representatives elect are the only individuals qualified to vote in the election of a speaker peered as provided in section 36 of the house rules and manual, the speaker is elected by a majority of the members-elect voting by surname. >> mr. speaker, this body and this nation has a territories and a colonies problem. >> order. >> what was supposed to be temporary has now effectively become permanent. we must do something about this.

>> the general lady is no longer recognized. [applause] >> the house will be in order. [applause] the reading clerk will now call the names of the representatives-elect who did not answer the first call of the role. >> biggs of arizona. johnson.

carson. >> hakeem jeffries. >> jeffries. cloud. johnson. clyde. clyde. gosar. gosar. harris of maryland. johnson.

roy. >> johnson. >> johnson. waltz. johnson. >> if there are any representatives-elect who did not answer the call of the roll, they may come to the well and vote at this time. >> stand right there.

>> just say clyde. >> clyde. clyde. >> johnson. >> gosar, johnson. >> gosar. johnson. >> we didn't count clyde because we didn't here. >> the clerk heard -- >> said -- >> i had it recorded as johnson. >> clyde. johnson. >> 216.

[multiple indistinct voices]

>> bret: as crazy as this sounds, we don't know what the number is, the magic number. there were a number of names read. a couple of people said johnson. we think we are accurate at 217 but until we hear from the clerk exactly what the total number of members is, we can't tell you what the magic number is, whether it is 217 or 218. if three others -- or three representatives voted for other names by name, we think that that means it has to go to a second ballot, but we can't tell you that until we know the total number, and with that flurry at the end, with all the names, speaker gingrich still with us? this is the process of the chamber, as you look live at steve scalise and mike johnson talking with each other. thoughts here?

>> i think karl rove is with us. newt had to step away. karl, we were keeping track, they went to biggs, voted for johnson, cloud, johnson, clyde, johnson, , johnson, but the three who voted for others, including norman for jordan, self for donalds, massie for emmer, your thoughts as we are trying to do the math and see where this ends up, karl? >> well, it is confusing but it is clear if two of the three votes for other, vote for johnson, he is in. it may be that if one of them does, he is in at 218, but karl bret is right come until the clerk declares and the clerk is being advised by four individuals, two republicans and two democrats designated by their respective party leaderships as the counters, until we hear from them, we don't know. >> bret: let me just say, is

chad pergram with us? i think he might be plugged in. >> bret, i am here, do you hear me? >> bret: chad, this is something, they are kind of whispering over here, i'm guessing they are going to try to move one of the three others, but what they have to give up to do that to stay on a first ballot, as it stands right now he is shy of 218 and it would have to go to a second ballot, is that fair? >> that's our understanding right now and this is right on the edge, again this is kind of an algebraic equation that they do in real time. the reason we don't know the actual number is there tallying right now and double checking with the tally clerks on the dais in front of the house chamber to determine how many people cast votes by name. that's going to be very important because you had three members who voted for someone by name who was not mike johnson or hakeem jeffries. when you look at the list, you had a vote for tom emmer, from thomas massie, you get the idea, and that is the problem, so can they go back and switch those

votes, or do they have to go to a second ballot? just before the roll call vote started, bret, you had tom burchett, surgeon had disagreement with mike johnson and somebody a big question mark indicateho this would go to a second ballot no matter what and then he voted for mike johnson, somebody who was unclear about where he was going to go, even ralph norman, the republican from south carolina who did not vote for mike johnson, so you see how this is a problem when he can only lose one vote, this would immediately kick to a second ballot. if this does go to a second ballot, and keep in mind right out of the house is not constituted. they can't swear in the members, there is no speaker until they close this vote and at that point if they determine they have somebody who has gotten the majority of those casting ballots for somebody by name, i will say that again, that is the threshold, you must get a majority of those casting ballots for somebody by name. so under usual circumstances

with 434 members, mike johnson came in at 219, he could go to 218. if that turns out to be in fact the magic number, he is probably short. >> sandra: chad, can you explain what might be happening right now? >> yeah, right now thee, the tally clerks, the republican frm wisconsin, chairman of the house and administration committee alongside virginia foxx, republican from virginia, joe borelli democrat from new york, the ranking democrat on the house administration committee, they are kind of checking the cross tabs, making sure everybody has recorded their vote and everybody is on the same page, in other words there is no room for error, and then they will come back and announce whether or not we have a speaker or not. now there are two -- go ahead. >> bret: are getting word that all of the holdouts casted votes by name, meaning that it would be 218 is the magic number

peered obviously not until the clerk says it, but just doing our own math, our tally on air is where things stand, and that means it is short. the 218 needed peered which is perhaps why there are all of conversations going on here. and the vote is open. it is not a closed vote as of yet, and one of these three could change their mind, i suppose. >> conceivably, yes, it is not closed until they close it, there is no time on this. what you have to look for if they determine they are not gotten a speaker on this vote, the two philosophies, from senior republican sources, one thought yeah, people have made their protests and they will go to a second vote later tonight or later this afternoon, and then we will have a speaker, or if these people are dug in so deeply, this is going to be a saturday or sunday project, and if this does go to a second ballot come i want to remind

everybody how rare this is. obviously we did the 15 rounds over five days two years ago, before the elected kevin mccarthy the speaker of the house. bret it was 100 years, 1923 with the reelection of speaker frederick gillett from massachusetts, a republican. the last vote until two years ago that went to even a second ballot, for ballots with frederick gillett in 1923, if this goes to a second ballot we are establishing precedents in the way they establish a speaker of the house. >> bret: went to 216, the official vote, 216 would be too shy of the 218 majority. clyde was counted twice in our tally. 216 is the official tally now, and we are going to come to the end here and it is going to say basically there is not a speaker of the house currently in the united states house of representatives. and this will go to a second ballot. so here begins this process.

>> and bret and martha, the other thing to note is this is kind of what republicans feared. they went through that five-day nightmare two years ago, they didn't have a speaker for 22 days in october of 2023 before electing mike johnson, and this is the precise delay that they talked about with this narrow majority before they could start to implement their agenda and what is past is prologue, the idea you are going to have this narrow majority in the house of representatives anyway and what does this mean when they start debating budget reconciliation and tax policy and the border and all of these issues they say we are going to do but if you don't have the votes even to get a speaker, certainly that is going to forecast kind of these very tough votes throughout the next two years, the every vote is going to come down to something like this because it is hard to get the narrow majority on the same page and the speakers vote is going to be reflective of that. >> sandra: okay, what is the time frame here? what will happen next, chad?

>> well, by rule, the house can't do anything else. they have to elect another speaker. they could conceivably turn right background, new nominating speeches, somebody else will get up and nominate mike johnson, may be catherine clark, the democratic whip conceivably would nominate hakeem jeffries and then you start the process all over again, could also decide to go into recess or call it a day, conceivably, and i was told if they did get to a second ballot, what would happen is rather than have a republican conference meeting they would have individual meetings with these members who were holdoutsd to bring them across the finish line. i should note tomorrow the house of representatives was not scheduled to be in session but long on the books and they were very cryptic about this is mike johnson and republican leaders told their members that they wanted them to go to fort mcnair for an all-day session on budget reconciliation. now they had certain discussions planned throughout the day, but

i was told by many members that they really didn't think that is what that was about, that was really to keep people from getting on airplanes and flying home and getting caught in this snowstorm that is coming through the midwest and the eastern u.s. later this week so they could keep everybody here and not have them spread to the four winds and they could actually get the congress started. maybe they do that tomorrow they get a speaker, maybe not but i am told that was really the method behind the madness of keeping everybody here for a saturday. >> bret: chad, standby, if you would. by the way, 97% chance of snow, 3-5 inches on monday. they have that deadline, as well. sandra? >> sandra: watching speaker johnson, appears to be making his way to the back of the room and departing the room for now. karl rove is joining us, three republicans voted for someone else making this a game changer. johnson appears to have lost the first round. please do way in. >> well, they voted for three people, none of whom wants to be

the speaker and all of whom support the speaker, so rather strange. i couldn't agree more with with the former speaker, newt gingrich, set about the necessity of republicans being team players, and yet we have demonstrated over the years there is an element in the house that doesn't want to play as a member of a team and instead is doing things like bringing the republican party, opposite example of an incompetent party in disarray, and by doing this, and again, i repeat, they voted for people who did not want to be speaker and who are supporting the speaker, so it is just showmanship, and i'm glad that at the end, it was a sign that a number of members who had passed over and not cast a vote one way or another came in and supported johnson, with these three members are distinctly self-centered and doing other their party nor their cause any good today.

>> bret: thomas massie just put out on social media, 433 members of congress are being sworn in today. i am being sworn at. he may not be sworn in today if these ballots continue. because you don't have a house of representatives, karl, until you have a speaker, that is the process, and the crazy part is you could play this out where they go through this and don't get to the magic number time and time again, you don't have a government until you have a speaker and a congress, despite the fact that you have a senate that has gaveled in. >> the speaker of the house is third in line to the presidency after the vice president, and, you know, we have seen this happen before in our history. gillette happened. before the civil war we had i think it was over 100 ballots before they finally settled on a speaker. let's hope we are not in is dire of a shape as the 1850s, if we

can elect a speaker rather quickly. again, what is the big issue here? why do these three people insist upon doing this? it is because they believe that having a majority of one or two in the house ought to be enough so that everything that they want to do is going to be supported by the rest of the republican caucus, and passed into law, and that is not how it works, members have to vote for the views of their individual districts, and as a result, it is common, give it a narrow majority like the republicans have, that you have to have people who muscle up and step up to the line and take votes that are going to be tough back home. >> bret: just to be clear, the three anti-johnson g.o.p. votes are real for norman, keith self, and thomas massie. massie voting for emmer, self byron donalds, norman for jim jordan. those are the three and there will be pressure likely on them as we get ready for a second

ballot. sandra? >> sandra: absolutely. bret, karl, if you could standby with us, karl, we are checking in with chad pergram on what he is learning. chad? >> they are kind of any stasis in the house of representatives and what i am told is there going to go to a second ballot. by rule that is what they're supposed to do. there could be circumstances where they would recess the house and come back at 4:00 or 5:00, but what i am told is there going to go onto a second ballot. we talked about the three members elect, remember they are not sworn in just yet, we talk about these members-elect, i had a rather lengthy interview with ralph norman yesterday who is going to meet with speaker johnson and said he would make his announcement today asked her how he felt about mike johnson, and i said waiting minute, what are you looking for here? he said i am looking for certain types of promises and certain deliverables we are going to get in the new year. i said waiting minute, didn't you work this out? shouldn't this have been resolved in mid-november, 1st of december, now we are

right on the precipice of the speakers vote and you are going into here if this is the right member? this is what is so vexing, i think, some of these members, they expected something different from mike johnson, again he is a very hard hand to place, the idea he did a big spending bill initially that was the plan that they did not want to do, so he got some pushback on that. he tried to move the bill from president-elect trump, and that had 38 republicans voted against it. there were many republicans who didn't want him to put a bill to aid ukraine on the floor back in the springtime, well, that happened and tat past. they also didn't want him to do a series of interim spending bills thr through the fall of 23 all the way frankly to this past fall, because he said he was going to run the house differently and they were going to do individual appropriations bills, and that is kind of what ralph norman has been talking about. i said waiting minute, if you have a pretty good canon of work here and it hasn't changed, why is this even on the table, why

are you undecided now? he was undecided, he went to talk to the speaker and today he made it is his vote known, voter jim jordan. three times in the october of 2023 african kevin mccarthy was deposed, and he lost both o. may be jim jordan is somebody they go to. >> bret: aishah hasnie in the hall outside the house chamber, representatives mace and chemic are lobbying ralph norman right outside the house chamber and apparently according to aishah, it is getting heated and they are having a heated discussion right now just outside this peered we should point out this is not official yet, but to your point, it seems like they are going to a second ballot, they go right away, but the clerk has to make a final pronouncement here from the d dais.

sandra? >> sandra: okay, you know what, i was digging through, as carl was saying what is it that they want? considering keefe self was one of the republicans to vote for u back in, karl, looking back at a tweet he put out yesterday, self, the 118th congress was out of control when it came to spending. new recruits are now arriving for the 119 congress and i invite them to join the few of us who are working on behalf of the american people to stop the big spenders. that was his message just about 24 hours before he cast his vote for byron donalds. karl? >> well, look, i understand the desire to cut back spending but you do that by working together as a team. you don't do it by trying to kneecap your leader on the first day of the session. ralph norman last november's that i want to do everything i can to support donald trump's agenda, within reason peered

well, within reason is getting a speaker of the house who will lead a republican caucus in support of the president's agenda. these members are putting themselves in a place where they are insisting one or two or three members of a 200 and what is it 19 member republican caucus, that those three people get to determine the future of the house of her public end. you don't have one of the junior members, self is a sophomore member from texas, suddenly stand up and say i am now in charge. you have to resolve these issues inside the conference and then go united onto the floor as the democrats did behind kim jeffries. >> bret: right now we are waiting for the official gavel, and it could be as we are getting reporting efforts to turn the three others, doesn't

seem like thomas massie is going to turn at all. he has said you could put bamboo under my fingernails and i am not going to vote for mike johnson, so i think he is pretty much settled. as far as the other two, self and ralph norman, there are efforts outside the chamber to change the mind, but it is still open. it hasn't gaveled into go to the second ballot. but you wonder what is happening behind the scenes. sandra? >> sandra: absolutely. looking through just five hours ago, the president-elect donald trump sounding very optimistic as he endorsed mike johnson earlier, put out a truth social statement k saying good luck today to speaker mike johnson, a fine man of great ability who is close to having 100% support, a win for mike today will be a big win for the republican party and yet another acknowledgment for our 129-year most consequential presidential election, a big affirmation indeed