operating under the pretense and requirement of see and avoid. every pilot will say. you have to avoid other aircraft yourself. atc will help and that is what happened here. we'll see what else comes out of the atc recordings as well as the radar tracks as part of the investigation. >> harris: you heard the president talking about the jobs and wants he wants to take a look at in air traffic control. atc, that will come up, too. great to have your expertise in these moments. coming right after the commander-in-chief it's necessary to be able to break it down. thank you very much. >> thank you, harris. >> harris: now "outnumbered" will begin. this is a "outnumbered" with my cohosts and look upon you and kayleigh mcenany, i'm harris faulkner. joining us lauren simonetti and

todd piro. i want to start, kayleigh, with something the president said about his third or fourth paragraph. this was a dark and ask her shaden knight and our nation's history and a terrible night of proportions. "we grieve for -- what has been taken from us so suddenly. where country in morning." this has shaken a lot of people, including people from other nations who were on that flight. i mean, he played the role of consoler in chief. >> i was watching this as we all were, 8:37 p.m. the new starts to break. you get a text message, i think a commercial aircraft just crashed. you think that's impossible. you must have it wrong. you look on flight aware pickets as the plane landed. that was incorrect information. you're pacing this together. my husband looked at me and said "think about the passenger's relatives waiting at the airport. think about when i come to pick you up and i'm waiting there,

you are coming back from a business trip and i'm waiting for you, sending text messages in the air. ." this young men shows text messages to the camera he just had with his wife, and he shows where they drop off, and he said "i am praying they are picking her up out of the river right now." the river, the potomac. president trump confirmed there are no survivors, but this is the hell these individuals are being put through. this person said they knew when the individuals whose wife was on the plane. a mother of a 1-year-old and 3-year-old. we pray for these families, and to have a president come out as consoler in chief at a moment like this is important for the nation. >> it's not lost on anybody that this is a 3:00 a.m. type of situation. happened at 9:00 p.m. they searched all night long. from what sources have told me, it began to be more of a recovery mission before dawn. they knew the cold water, so on

and so forth. you can see pete hegseth, sean duffy, the president at that like turn. this is not what we are use to the last four years. >> think about how quickly we received tangible answers following the horrific event. to your point, pete hegseth got up there and basically acknowledged the altitude issue president trump mentioned prior. to have a secretary of defense acknowledge something like that less than 24 hours that there are still incidents from the prior administration that we do not have answers for. you may not like the answers, but we are receiving answers, we are receiving accountability. that's with the american people want and demand. life isn't perfect. this is a perfect example of that. we just need answers. we need that transparency so we can move forward as a nation. speak of the 67 people who died,

the three military and the chopper. young u.s. skating stars of the future, coaches, the u.s. skating world affected by this. you heard of -- talking about russia and other countries not ready to release some of the other countries, conference. you can understand that these would have been young passengers, some of them. >> they remind me of the saying that says "to the world you may space might be one, but to me, you are the world." every loss of life is devastating and unfathomable to the family who surrounds the person that perished, and every plane flight represents an international conglomerate. every plane in the united states river since a varied, diverse group of people. when it has sports teams or certain condensed groups, has a devastating impact. between 2006 and 2020, the department of defense reported

5,000 service numbers who died in training. that represents 32% of all service member fatalities, meaning they died at twice the rate in combat that they do in training. i have full faith in secretary hexa that that amount will start to reduce, but that will not be the reality moving forward. when you have a family member -- you always think about them making the ultimate sacrifice. for it to happen in a training accident is tragic. >> with civilians. i want to go to lucas tomlinson, who is at alexandria, virginia. you have been on the story. hour by hour, we learn more. >> do you have the bites? >> lucas, are you with us? all right, let's go back. i did not get to lauren simonetti, and i want to get your topline thoughts. >> it is horrific. it happened late last night.

i couldn't sleep. i was chilled by how did this happen. how does a military helicopter crash into a civilian airplane, and then you think of how cold, near freezing, that water was, and then i heard sean duffy, the transportation secretary come out this morning and say "we found the fuselage." it was in three pieces in waist deep water. that could potentially be encouraging. maybe, they can to get to the victims a little easier, but sadly, that's not the case. it looks like everybody has died. it is tragic. it raises so many questions. i am encouraged at what everyone is talking about, that pete hegseth, defense secretary, said "a mistake was made. we are on and we will give you the information when we have it." >> to me, this puts a fine point on how much faster you have to confirm the rest of the president's cabinet. all hands on deck is what he put. we need all hands.

lucas tomlinson, again, we have worked out a couple of technical bugs. with the grace of the audience, we appreciate seeing you, lucas. >> harris, it appears that the newly installed defense secretary pete hegseth took responsibility for the crash. he has said, as you just mentioned, a mistake was made. he read up the ranks of those killed, the three killed aboard the black hawk helicopter. the army captain and chief warrant officer second grade were killed, along with a staff sergeant, likely the crew chief on board. we also heard from president trump, who said the helicopter should not have been flying at the same altitude as american airlines flight 5342, and the collision occurred at for approximately 400 feet. generally speaking, helicopters in this area normally fly with a max ceiling up about 100 feet. there are questions about why the helicopter was flying so high. we also heard from the president, saying it was their communications issue between the

tower at reagan national airport and that helicopter, and why those pilots did not see that airliner, who were on short final -- just moments before landing at reagan national airport, flying from wichita, kansas, with 64 on board, 64 passengers, four crew members, including members of the u.s. finger skating --go figure skating team. also heard from president trump that he wants to get the bodies back to russia. being out here for the last few hours, i can say that the recovery effort is ongoing. we have seen low-flying u.s. park police helicopters combing the banks along the potomac, looking for bodies and debris. there's also questions about why this collision happened approximately 9:00 p.m. last night. you have the american airliner flying from the south along the potomac north to reagan national. had to bank to get to runway 33. that represents a point on the cthe --

compass 330. you had the bank over bolling air force base. behind me, the black hawk helicopter was flying from the south, coming from the direction of washington, d.c., perhaps on a run so mike langley. it's a very busy area. you have black hawk helicopters routinely flying in the air corps read or both on the potomac river, behind me, also above 395 when they are flying to the pentagon, to cia headquarters. marine one flies from quantico to the white house, of course. there were questions about night vision goggles. a reporter asked the president about why the pilots were wearing -- a former marine pilot told me it's unlikely pilots would be wearing night vision goggles because of the ambient light from arlington, virginia, from the airport. we heard from defense secretary pete hegseth on a video exclusively -- by fox news, that this was an nighttime flight, a

check ride, a flight to be practicing flying at night, and so there are questions about the hours that these pilots had. did hear from secretary hegseth, saying these were fairly experienced pilots, but we also heard from president trump in the briefing room, saying that dei could've played a role in the crash, without offering evidence. >> you mentioned something that i caught, having to do with how many hours they have flown. that is new to the conversation. i'm sure that will be looked at as well. thank you for the report. the most time spent on this would seem to be how do we tell -- and to your point, how do we tell the public as much as we can -- that's a new feeling. but you cannot change the facts. you have the commander in chief given us what is not good news.

>> you have a president that, to the advantage of the country, will tell you where his mind is at at any given moment. if you get on the phone with president trump, you going to the oval office -- it doesn't matter who you are. you are the secret service agent guarding him. he will tell you where his head is at, of course within the bounds of classified information rules. he will share with the american public -- we watched last night. i counted for 36 seconds where it appeared the helicopter was going straight towards the plane. of course it is one image and you do not see altitude, but he tells you what everyone is thinking. to come out as directly and give the american people the few answers he can, i think it is important. the last time this happened was 2009. think about this. this hasn't happened in two decades. another plane crashed in the potomac, 1982. 75 individuals died. this is rare. if you asked me -- i would take a commander in chief who tells where his head is at versus one who shies away from the camera,

the former is better than the latter. >> please correct me if i'm wrong, but i think the previous crashes were on like this one because they didn't involve military. >> yes. >> this is making history, unfortunately, in that way as i understand it. todd, some politics came up. you heard lucas tomlinson talking about it, talking about what the priorities have been for hiring across the government, and how he wants to realign those priorities. >> there was somewhat of an implication from the president and vice president that directly or indirectly, potentially, dei may or may not have been involved. that needs to be looked into, but he also acknowledged right before we came on error on "outnumbered," he said he was not blaming the air traffic control. we all need to take a step back and realize regardless of the reason our air traffic control in the country has been

understaffed and overworked for a very long time now. no matter the cause of that, we do need to address this, whether it was involved in this incident. it's a problem. we don't want the second incident to happen. we don't want to be doing one of these and have air traffic control be the reason. we do need to get to the bottom of it. there were questions raised. harris, i would like to raise one more question that you brought up on your show that i thought was fascinating. in your discussion with jon scott, apparently, there are two different frequencies with which the military community communicates with air traffic control. on one, there was an acknowledgment by the helicopter pilot that he did see the plane. the question remains, was it a plane or the plane in question? if you heard our colic jon scott, it appears it was a planet, another plane, and not the plane involved. that's one of the major things we need to get to the bottom of.

>> you see three when we show the image kayleigh was talking about. one was higher than the other, but we do not know, with night goggles on or whatever was going on inside the chopper that allowed them to say "we have got the plane insight. we don't know which --" we don't know which plane. uhf is the military, vhf is the civilian. and want to bring in michael oldfield, a commercial pilot for more than 30 years, lead investigator of a 1996 trans world airlines crash, 230 people perished. thank you for being with us. first of all, we are learning so many more details. what turns out to you as we take a look at what might have happened here? >> thank you, harris. first of all, condolences and prayers for our families, and the first responders that jumped in the water last night and were there this morning. we are just looking at, and i know the president just spoke and the secretary. some of the things that were

pointed out was it was a clear night. you had both airplanes that were in working order. that is something that is kind of unusual. one of the things that i think you might look at, and we will look at a lot of things at the ntsb, but they are going to look at where the pilots of both aircraft were looking, what direction where the aircraft actually flying, specifically, where they touched each other. the way they do that as they are going to do sonar of the ground on the riverbed at the debris fields, and they are going to hopefully do that today before anything is brought up. that's very important. that will give a real key to where exactly you can see the connection of the impact itself. >> mike -- and i know in terms of what used to do as a lead investigator, you are also having to investigate how people

perished, how people were injured. i'm curious to know. one of our guests onset, lauren simonetti is here. she says she knows the water was about waist deep, that they would have hit, from published reports. that matters greatly. it's not like they could hit the water and swim. they are going down at such a fast speed, if it is not deeper water i would imagine that's problematic. >> it is problematic. you have to think about this too, harris, is that the american eagle flight, american airlines flight, was traveling at about 160 miles an hour, 150 miles an hour. the helicopter coming down the river at about 110 miles an h hour. the impact velocity is pretty dramatic. if you look at certain videos, you are looking at only 2.5 seconds before they were both in the water. >> that's a lot. >> server, the president and

secretary of defense as well as secretary of transportation assured us today that we would have answers fast. my question to you is in past horrific crashes where the public has learned what occurred, some time after -- what are the challenges? what does make it take so long, and here, what would make it a fast investigation so we could learn the truth sooner? >> in the past, what happened, and the reason take so long -- first of all, they have to get the black boxes. i will take one step back. the ntsb, the way it works, and with the airlines when i was a captain with united. we have go teams. the ntsb has a board of directors. it is an independent federal agency. underneath each of those board members -- and there is a chairman, and they're politically appointed -- each one of those members, their technical experts underneath

each of those. at the ntsb is responsible for pipeline, railroad, waterway, and aviation access. the members of the board and there go teams rotate. my guess, because dca is owned by the federal government, and control technically by the u.s. congress. this will be given to the chairman. i would guess the president has already -- i work for the president and the last administration. i would like to think that he has already asked the chairman to take charge and his go-to. that team is either on-site already, or they have been flying in since 6:00 this morning. >> what does that look like with the synthesis of the army investigating to blackhawk involvement? again, what would be the challenges, if any, of having the investigation wrap up quickly or not? >> the army investigation doesn't go under the same -- of

the ntsb investigation. they are going to make some decisions, based on some information available -- i think in the next 48 hours. i think you will find out where the helicopter was, the altitude where it came down the potomac. i talked to jackie this morning, jacqui heinrich. i think you will find out whether they had night vision goggles on. i think the dod will make some quick analysis. the ntsb takes longer, because one, they will get the black boxes. they have to go to d.c. and run those. it could take a couple of weeks get those boxes listen to. they have to bring industry in, both manufacturers of the airplanes -- and they're going to have to -- there's a lot more stakeholders involved in the ntsb investigation. >> thank you so much for joining

us. >> it's bring in lieutenant colonel darren dobb, former army commander and former black hawk helicopter pilot. you're the the dash got perfeco have today. i want to read off for you the little evidence we have now come as we put the crumbs together. here's what it said. "an air traffic controller said pat25. do you have the crj in sight?" past behind the cr jay to which which -- "we request visual separation." to the layman, i am hoping you can translate what that means. you have been in a black hawk. you heard it all. >> and i've been in this airspace. the first thing about this radio call is its normal. i have heard that call thousands of times. it is simply saying that a

blackhawk, do you see the fixed wing aircraft in front of you that's going to be beside you, whatever it may be. and you are acknowledging that yes i see it, air traffic control then says that you are allowed to continue on with their flight, provided you go behind the aircraft in this c case. and that would've been a nonevent if it had followed. of course, we saw the result of what happened, so we are not 100% sure of how that happened exactly yet, but i guess this is a second language for all of us who are aviators, who get quite used to this. that's all they are saying is continue on, but they acknowledged back that they sought and that they were going to be able to clearly aircraft. the question is in my mind, based on just the video evidence i've seen, were they going behind the aircraft atc was talking about, or a different one? there was one on takeoff at night, lights can play games with your mind and your eyes,

and you can see things a different perspective that aren't always what they would appear to be normally. >> that is an important point. when you look at this visual -- i believe we have it and can pull it up -- i taped it, counted it: it was 36 seconds you see the blackhawk going towards the commercial airliner, but that is to my eyes. the commercial airliner could've turned. all kinds of things could have affected the visual those blackhawk pilots had. cbs is reporting, and fox news has not confirmed this, that divers obtained a black box. how important is that? i imagine that would take us into the mind of the pilot, was it a different cr jay? and in that moment seconds before this happened. >> and that will be the question with the bl -- black box and recordings. to tell -- anybody else with a frame of mind was, what they saw. that's a critical piece of evidence one way or the other.

this particular model blackhawk does not have that capability, so you have to go off the evidence you get from either eyewitnesses, radar tracks, and atc recordings, voice recordings. you are not going to get blackhawks off of the blackhawk that will help you in that regard. there's a chance there's very little caught on recording that will truly help this. that atc recording dimensioned is pretty critical. -- that atc recording that you mentioned is pretty critical, because it mentions that the blackhawk pilots did see something. now it's critical whether they saw the right something. >> the million dollar question everyone is wondering is it's 2025. we have all kinds of technology. commercial airliners are equipped with traffic collision avoidance systems. commercial flights in the d.c. area. my call he just sent me this. they have all sorts of regulations -- my colleague just sent me this. they have also the regulations because they heavily traffic

area near the nation's capital. you say there's information that might not have relevant information. this crash should change aviation forever more. what changes do we need to think about today for black hawk helicopters to ensure this never happens again? >> this, aviation, is a human endeavor and always will be. there is potential for error when an aircraft is flying based on procedural rules that require a pilot to adhere to them, stay within the corridor or certain dimensions. that's one of those procedural requirements. i guess the question becomes is reagan airport, are there too many aircraft moving in and out of there? can they handle the workload they have and will continue to get more unsafe as others try to get more flights in and out? that would be my first question. the second is to the n need to reanalyze airspace and see if anything needs to be changed? in the end, based on the evidence, to me, i am focused on

taking medications effectiveness and adherence to established procedures that i worked for hundreds and hundreds of flights over many years in that exact same airspace. >> i think you are right to ask those questions but a crowded airspace. i saw a reporter textedit picture, helicopters beside her just days ago, and she said "these feel a little close." a lot of questions. thank you for the expertise and insight. >> thank you. >> i think it's important to keep perspective. i wanted to read something. cheryl was a flight attendant as we all know, our colleague. "over 45,000 flights and 2.9 million passengers daily in american skies. it is important to acknowledge how rare something like this is. it in no way diminishes the importance of the people who lost their 67 loved ones. this is a rare episode, but unfortunately, if you are wrong ones, 67 people can lose their lives." >> volume of people flying is at a record. when you look at a highly choreographed airport like

reagan national, where you have marine one, federal agencies flying, commercial aircraft, army contingents. there is little room for error. maybe there needs to be more room for error when something just goes wrong. you noted this with the guests, that this might rewrite the rules for how weak, what is needed in the airspace, if maybe we need larger infrastructure, fewer flights, different roles. changes will come because of us, because we haven't seen anything like this in at least 15 years. >> emily, we all recently flew into reagan airport. it's a crowded area. effec -- the fact that a reporter put up a helicopter -- it's a tight airspace. >> we spend a lot of time there. i'm there at least a few times a month. you cannot overstate the amount of air traffic you see. i'm constantly seeing mill --

military helicopters, but when you go over the potomac, you see how low the flight pattern, the landing and flight patterns are directly over the river. certain airports are like that throughout the united states. oakland is like that. >> milwaukee. >> like you are driving and "they are right on top of me." when you couple those things not only is it so unique, but you really realize the, when you talk about choreography, but the magic of the molecule as it is in place is tremendously fragile. it goes to how much responsibility is on atc and every pilot and everyone who is navigating and managing what is an incredible amount of layers. keep in mind for atc, that does exist in concentric circles. as you are descending through the skies, each layer, you have a different atc frequency or

channel, however it works, that you're connecting with it. each level. when you put in that military layer that's unlike any other airport. >> and on a different channel. >> and on the close calls -- or member last year, we saw the close calls on many different airports thereof the country. >> that's true. i did want to mention because todd brought it up, air traffic control do a trauma distraught. you read about the anxiety and lack of sleep and things that go on because their jobs are stressful. god bless them. we need more of them, which is what the president's conversation was about and what this is about. mark meredith is live with more on this. >> good afternoon. we are seeing airlines send flights back into reagan. i just saw this flight make its landing. for about the last hour and a half, we have seen a trickle of flights coming. already more than 500 flights canceled today, but -- compared to what it was like at midnight, 1:00 a.m., 2:00 a.m. when we

were out at the marina. all we could see was the traffic. instead now, there is this eerily calm situation. you have planes that are leaving, but obviously with the news that there were no survivors last night, and how horrific that is. we are expecting another update from the d.c. metro airport, the d.c. mayor. local officials. probably less than two hours from now. of course you heard what president trump and the trump administration had to say, making it -- clear that it's an acceptable and how something like this could have been prevented. there's too a blame game underway about the state of the air traffic control system and communications system that is set up your congress is going to want to have its say. members of kansas' congressional delegation who lost so many people out there last night -- were ready to talk about their demand for account ability. my understanding is there may be an informal briefing.

last night -- seeing the search and rescue helicopters. going up and down the potomac. >> i would see -- at the edge of the airfield, but they weren't moving. told me how bad this was going to be. the airport itself has a bunch of sky cams on it. seeing it all the time. being able see it all right a away. house has transpired, very eye-opening as well. this usually takes a few months, and then a final report could be -- and of course there are hearings. people want to know what

happens. you were talking about the amount of traffic, the sheer volume. i know you have flown in here before. >> we were just there. >> this was one of the busiest times ever. we appreciate your reporting and bringing new information to the conversation. real quickly, the president today was telling reporters upon being asked what has changed, you just signed an executive order. he said "two or three days ago." he has raised his standards for aviation to the highest. >> without question. he looks at this as a businessman would, as a ceo of a company, ceo of a country. you said something important at the start of the show, which is the importance of confirming these nominees. we saw our former colleague, no transportation secretary sean duffy put his hand on the bible and be sworn in yesterday. this happened hours later. yes, you have acting individuals who fill the place in the

interim, but allowing the president to have his picks and do so expeditiously. i'm glad sean duffy is in place. if you had this verse is the acting individuals that would've been there in the interim. >> and you would know such a time as this. >> we will be right

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>> this has been going on today. this is where we started. the confirmation hearing all for fbi director kash patel is moments away from resuming. they took a lunch break. during his opening statement, patel stressed that americans have lost trust in the bureau and our justice system in. he to make a change. >> the erosion of trust, as the

chairman pointed out, is all too low today. 40% of americans have trust in the fbi. in order to get it back -- one, violent crime is exploding this country. we cannot afford to allow it to run away. the second way we do this on equitrac's aggressive constitutional oversight from congress. trust from the public can only be restored if there is full transparency, and i'm committed to that full transparency. >> kayleigh, it's interesting. his opening statement, i did not know all of what was on his resume. there were things that aren't even listed, all of his experience. >> i know kash patel well. this man is a patriot. kash patel is the seminal patriot. i sat with him for hours on air force one. we would have the most in-depth conversations. contrary to what's being painted by the liberal media, this is not someone who was sitting with a retribution sheet.

he has thought about issues of security, how to secure our nation, and his resume, chief of staff at dod, printable deputy -- the list goes on. even worked in obama's administration. this is an impressive guy. i'm happy thom tillis is making light of it. cash bingo card. [laughter] all the things that that the left will say. this is an extreme a qualified man who is trying to be reduced by the left to a caricature. >> making them cash with a c. [laughter] emily. >> what struck me about his answers is how specific and defiant he is periods intellect is refreshing after coming off of four years where, frankly, we had a dearth of it at the cabinet levels in the administration. for example, when he was trying to be put in a pigeonhole, "that's not all what i'm saying and that's only part of the truth. you are omitting half of that statement." he wasn't specific and clear

with his positions and statements of defending the constitution first, and representing the americans first. i thought it was so important when he was asked what his most rewarding thing on his resume and experience was. he said his efforts in national security, protecting american strength, working toward identifying those tariffs. for those who want to engage in that conversation, this man, to your point about being thoughtful and so much deeper than a sound bite warrants, or these bullet points coming out of the mainstream media, he has a lot to say and we should listen to him. >> i understand that you have been in the hearing room today. tell us what's going on. >> harris, i think i even expected this to have more fireworks and be more controversial than it has been. it's been pretty smooth. i realize the reason for that is because the real star of the show today is the fbi, for all the wrong reasons. as we heard throughout the hearing today, going through the

parade of horrible, starting with the crossfire hurricane investigation, to looking at parents as possible terrorists for being angry at school board meetings, to going after certain catholic parishes, two of course going after donald trump and his associates in ways they didn't go after anyone else and pursuing disproportionate punishment for them. that's why we are here. frankly, even when the democrat senators, for instance, presented kash patel with some of his more controversial statements from the past, there was a sense in the room that it almost didn't matter, that it's a foregone conclusion, that he's going to get through because the american people are so tired of what they've been watching for the last decade, that they would want someone like kash patel to hopefully go in and clean things up. >> talk to me about how much easier it is if trump gets much of his cabinet put together, to have cross agency conversation that dawned on me today. what he does, national security, the fbi, that also touches the border. they are all interconnected.

perhaps, we might even see them all together at one point. that struck me when we saw pete hegseth and sean duffy, transportation and defense. yes, it is civilian and military, the crash over the potomac, but it's interesting to see those puzzle pieces come together. >> it makes things a lot easier. i think it will enable donald trump to continue to effectuate his agenda at the speed he has been doing already. harris, going back to the kash patel hearing for a moment, something kash patel said that i thought was pretty profound was that he said his time as a public defender taught him that if we can't provide due process for the worst of us, we can't provide due process for anyone. the reason that is so important is because for the last decade now, we have watched people use and abuse the law against their political enemies, most notably donald trump and his associates. why? they don't like him.

that undercuts justice to such a significant degree. actually think his experience as a public defender, and understanding that justice is not just for everyone. it is especially for the people we don't like that -- that's a crucial understanding. i think it fbi director or attorney general has to have that, and it seems that cash patel has that, especially because he has been a target and self of a weaponized government. he knows what it feels like. until you have been hit with the government, an investigation that is unjust and unfair, it's hard to understand how horrible it is. he understands that and doesn't want to happen to anyone again. >> it's funny, i love the way jonathan portrayed this. this is the second confirmation hearing for kash because he had one at the pam bondi hearing. we have seen what the left is trying to do, as i mentioned, reduced into a caricature, but there is an interesting exchange with dick durbin for a he began

asking but they generally sixth pardon. kash neutralize that immed immediately. democrats, were they surprised to see someone who was reasonable, thoughtful, a mind of his arm? >> he did not support the connotations of sentences for everyone who had been violence against law enforcement, and he wouldn't in general feel that way. i also thought it was interesting -- if you can hear the sound, they are starting to hearing behind me. a couple of quick points. he was also confronted with some of the statements he has made about former attorney general bill barr and chris wray. bill barr was on his deep stateless. he was asked about this, said he has no personal vendetta against him. he was asked about press getting chris wray. "i've committed to going forward. i don't want to engage in retribution close what's. all in all, it's been a very interesting hearing, smooth, and the sense in the room watching the audience's reaction, it's

been more kash friendly than not. sympathetic nods, sounds, laughing at some of the statements he made in the past. i think it's pretty possible, and certain really, that he's going to get through. >> he looks comfortable. we are watching it now on the left side of your screen. lunch break is over for the kash patel fbi nominee confirmation hearing. thank you very much. let's go live to capitol hill. >> fbi agents or personnel associated with trump investigations. >> i'm not aware of that, senator. >> think you. there is no evidence of wrongdoing by fbi employees involved in these investigations. if you do pursue investigations of those involved, will you commit to using standard processes, including a standard review by the fbi inspections division and the inspector general? >> senator, i will honor those review processes.

>> if these are actions that the fbi employees, if they are actions against fbi employees that don't follow the standard process that happened before you get in, will you commit to reversing any decision prior to your arrival, so that the standard processes, and the standard review by the fbi inspections division, will take place? >> i don't know what's going on right now over there, but i'm committed to you, senator, and your colleagues, but i will honor the internal review process of the fbi. >> have you made commitments to anyone about pursuing investigations or targets if you are fbi director? >> only violent criminals and terrorists. >> have you had conversations with anyone on the transition team about pursuing investigations or targets? >> only following the constitution. >> again, are you certain? >> that i have told people on the at mr. risch and -- >> are you certain? have you had any conversations with anyone on the transition team about pursuing any investigations or targets?

>> senator, to the best of my recollection, i've only set i will use the constitution. >> have you discussed specific investigations or targets you were pursue as fbi director with the president of the united states? >> senator come to the best of my recollection, no. >> are you certain? >> to the best of my recollection, no. >> according to public reports, you were subpoenaed by the federal prosecutors to testify as a witness before the grand jury investigation, investigating the mar-a-lago classified documents case. you testified before the grand jury, correct? >> yes, sir. >> when you were before the grand jury bled the fifth on the basis of self incrimination? >> i utilize my constitutional rights during that process with the advice and consent of counsel and appeared before the grand jury. >> i will take that as he has. you are familiar i imagine with section 6002 of title 18? >> off the top of my head, not. >> it is the immunity statute. whenever a witness refuses to

testify or provide other information before a grand jury based upon the privilege against self incrimination, the court can order the witness to testify. the witness must comply with the order, but they receive immunity, which means no testimony or any other information provided before the grand jury can be used against them in any criminal proceeding. you were compelled to testify as a witness in a mar-a-lago classified document case. did you participate in any criminal conduct involved in that case? >> involved in the mar-a-lago classified documents case? no, i testified through compulsion by court order. >> you receive immunity for providing information that was self incriminate end. do you remember the name of the prosecutor who questioned you? >> there were multiple, senator. i do not. >> were any of them people that were fired this past week? >> i have no idea, senator. >> are you certain? you are under oath. >> i'm aware i'm under oath,

senator, and i have no idea that i participated in the removal of doj prosecutors. >> what was the information you provided that you received immunity for? >> i love my grand jury testimony to be released, but as you know, that has been sealed by the department of justice, and i'm not allowed to discuss it here. >> i find it troubling that you don't know the law here. let me tell you what the law is. rule six governs grand jury proceedings, under rule 6a, grand jurors, court reporters, and prosecutors are bound to secrecy, but witnesses are not bound by secrecy. you were a witness in the classified documents case. you were not bound by secrecy. you can tell us everything that happened in that room and everything you testified about. i will ask you again. what information did you provide to the grand jury? >> in this, we are in agreement, senator. get my grand jury testimony. i want it made public. i asked the department of justice to make it public and they refused to do so.

>> there is no legal bound against you telling us right now what you testified to. >> when i asked for my transcript to be released -- >> sir, did you or did you not commit a crime? >> senator, i did not commit a crime. >> then why won't you tell us what you testified to? >> because it occurred over the course of three weeks. i don't have the ability to recall everything i testified to, but i'm asking you to put my transcript down. >> did you testified to witnessing the president of the united states declassify documents? >> senator, what i testified to is best captured by that transcript. >> so you are not willing to tell congress, after making many pledges about transparency, whether or not you testified to witnessing the president of the united states declassified documents? in the name of all the values you have said today, did you or did you not testify to witnessing the president of the

united states declassified documents? >> i testified accordingly and under oath, and i encourage you to get that transcript. >> by the the dash a lot of ourd you are free to tell people. what are you hiding from congress? answer the question: did you testified to witnessing the united states declassified documents, yes or no? >> senator, the grand jury testimony is available to you. i encourage you to make a public. >> as you likely no, the second volume of jack smith's report about the classified document case is not public yet. to fulfill our constitutional duty of advice and consent, the president or nominations, members of the committee have asked the doj to review. do you agree that congress should thoroughly review its nominees, yes or no? >> yes. >> okay. last question and i will be done. when you and i met, you told me you wanted to remove 11,000 fbi personnel, or move many of them. you said that again today. you have looked at an org chart to understand what offices and

functions that you will be pulling from. i don't think you have done a serious analysis, but i do think you have an assignment from donald trump to got the fbi. you've said yourself "i will shut down the fbi and hoover building." there are people specifically that you are targeting, i believe, and do you agree that you have already prepared plans to remove certain individuals from their offices? for example, individuals that will be replaced by political personnel? the political personnel that are being put in in an institution you and i discussed has no political appointees, but one, the political personnel's involved -- these names. >> you stated your question. would you answer? or don't you want to? >> we can move on. >> senator. >> thank you, mr. chairman.

esther patel -- mr. patel, there is no doubt that you have the experience and expertise to lead the fbi, and we welcome you here today. we are pleased that you are here. i have been listening to my colleagues across the dais, listening to the questions. it has led me to one thing: why are the democrats so afraid of you? >> i don't know, senator. he would have to ask them. >> i tell you what i think. in listening to their questions, your responses, which we appreciate. they know that you were going to go in, and you were going to clean up that political cabal that has been over there for years. you are going to reposition the fbi to its core mission. you stated that earlier in this hearing, and there will be no more political persecutions and

no more two tears of justice, and -- like having two tiers of justice. they have enjoyed it. it has helped them, they think, in their political position. they have enjoyed targeting catholics. the make and people have said they want -- no more. you're going to clean it up. i have worked on this for years. try to get those records of who flew on epstein's plane, and who helped him build this international human trafficking, sex trafficking ring. i urged the then chairman to subpoena those records. i end up being blocked by the senator and christopher wray. they stonewalled this.

breaking up the trafficking ring -- breaking up these trafficking rings is important to president trump. will you work with me on this issue so we know who worked with jeffrey epstein in building these sex trafficking rings? >> absolute, senator. child sex trafficking has no place in the united states of america, and i will do everything if confirmed as fbi director to make sure the american public knows the full weight of what happened in the past and how we are going to counter-manned missing and exploited children going forward. >> thank you for that. i want to touch on the political persecution. i find it interesting that they feel like you would carry out political persecution. your parents are with us today. they fled uganda. persecution from idi amin. i think that with her background, and given your family's history, that you would never move to political

persecution. is that accurate? >> yes, senator, that is. >> and we appreciate that you would remove any kind of two tears of justice from the fbi, because they have practiced that every day for years. not all fbi agents. are some good ones. we certainly want to keep them, but the politics has got to be moved out of the agency now. they have tried to frame you as being anti-police. we have discussed that some today. i know that you grew up working with nypd officers in your community. i know that law enforcement groups, including the national association of police organizations have endorsed her nomination. on top of that, your brother is a law enforcement officer. is that accurate? >> many of my family are, yes, senator. >> how many of your family?

>> well, i guess the indians have a different definition of family. we have a big one and they are all family. >> we all love big families. i appreciate that. it's accurate to say that in your role, you are going to do everything you possibly can to protect the men and women protecting our communities. >> that's of the utmost importance. >> thank you. want to go to the nunez memo. you where the principal author of this memo. is that accurate? >> me and staff. >> thank you. and that did so much to focus the light on the russiagate hoax and the political cabal that was for years operated out of the doj and fbi. i know that there are some who felt like that memo was not accurate. we know now, differently.

i'm quoting a comment that was made about that memo by a member of that committee. "it was meant only to give republican house members a distorted view of the fbi." i find it interesting they use the term "distorted view." i think the american people, who for 4 years under biden, saw the fbi weaponized against them, against parents, against people of faith, weaponized against president trump. i think they would disagree with that. do you stand by the good work you did on the nunez memo? >> our team, and yes, absolutely. >> and in the memo was accurate in its description of the details, correct? >> as confirmed by the inspector general, the special counsel. it contained only sworn

information received pursuant to transcribe interviews and production of government materials, including fbi 302s and doj memorandum. >> so the memo is accurate. >> yes, ma'am. >> thank you for that. in your new role as director, how will you work to root out two tears of justice through the fbi. >> the government must allow those -- execute their law enforcement duties fully, but at the same time, the american people receive accountability to the government to any of those who violate that sacred trust. >> and as you prepare to take this new role, what are the top areas of concern for you as we look at our national security? >> the top areas when it comes to national security have remained unchanged and the threat dynamic has increased. it is thwarting terrorist activities and tax here and

overseas against our citizens and allies, it also includes ccp espionage, which is running rampant -- including our cyber infrastructure and agricultural properties. it also includes taking on around >> thank you i look forward to a yes vote on your confirmation. thank you, mr. chairman. >> mr. chairman. >> yes. >> since the senator from ten see raised my name, i would like to respond. >> please go ahead. >> mr. chairman, while i was chair of the committee protecting children from exploitation was one of the highest priorities, and we chaired kids safety, and decided on a bipartisan basis to call the big tech ceos for an important, maybe historic meeting of this committee. last year, the committee reported six bipartisan bills to help protect -- to protect child safety online. including one of my own and senator blackburn's report act.

in the previous congress, senator blackburn and i led legislation signed into law that eliminated statutes of limitation for federal suits for survivors of childhood sex abuse abuse. i worked to ensure that the doj's unethical non-prosecution agreement with jeffrey epstein. and allow an investigation of that. and yet in 2023, i was falsely accused of preventing, releasing the names of jeffery epstein's network by mr. patel. prior to the committee's november 9th, 2023 supreme court ethics subpoenas, senator blackburn had never raised epstein's flight logs with me publicly or privately. during the november 30th, 2023 supreme court