comes down like that. so some kind of flight control or i guess it from the latest videos you can see some kind of emissions from the airplane on its way down it appears. so maybe there was a fire inside, maybe they did have something going on with the oxygen inside the airplane of. that would explain his inability. >> sean: we are out of time this hour but hopefully those black boxes are recovered we will get more information. our prayers with everybody impacted by all of this. i know i speak for the entire country it is sad. that is all the time we have left this evening. please stay with the fox news channel we will have continuing coverage of this learjet 55 going down outside of philadelphia, our coverage continues with my friend, my colleague trace gallagher, thank you for being with us. >> i'm trace gallagher 10:00 p.m. on the east coast

7:00 p.m. in los angeles a special edition of america's news fox news at night. breaking tonight another plane crashed less than 48 hours after the first. this time talking about a medical transport plane. it is a learjet 55 and apparently it crashed just outside of the mall in philadelphia. shortly after 6:00 this learjet took off and air traffic control is saying around six '06 -- 6:06 and at 606 seconds and apparently went off radar. so it went off radar and it crashed into the ground. it was heavily fueled and it exploded. six people on board, there are no reports of any survivors. we are talking about four crew members including a young medical patient, and her mother. the crash ignited

several fires on the ground. hundreds of rescue workers and officials on the scene. live coverage throughout the night. this happened in philadelphia about maybe 50, 12 to 15 miles away from the north philly airport where it took off. let's begin with alexis mcadams, alexis is live for us in new york. >> it was all developing we were trying to figure out who was on that airplane. finding out a short time ago from some officials who work with jet rescue that it was a little girl, we do not know her age, who was from mexico, who had been getting life-saving treatment in philadelphia. so they have some of the best hospitals. so somebody paid to allow her to come from mexico near tijuana out with her mom to get this life-saving treatment. they had just wrapped up that treatment today. they were on that airplane with a crew who were all mexican nationals as well. heading to missouri to refuel so when talking about how much fuel was

on that plane they had just taken off. stop in missouri, refuel, and head back to tijuana, mexico, so if that does not break your heart i don't not -- i do not know what would you. this girl went through all the treatment and procedures and her plane went down on the way home. that is coming as we learn more details about this fire. you talk to aviation exports and they try to explain was the plane on fire as it was going down? all you know is the plane slammed to write down in the middle of a very busy area around rush hour in philadelphia. people were coming and going near that mall and you see this huge fireball come right down. there is so much debris, there are pieces all over the place of this jet. so big pieces, small pieces, and the entire area is covered and jet fuel. it is kind of the main concern as you heard from the mayor and also the governor. they have for faa officials heading there, for ntsb crews, 45 state troopers and lots of fire crews. i got off the phone a short time ago with one of the fire officials who told me the fires

are under control, but that was after two homes at least were lit on fire and then its right to six row homes. six row homes near that mall lit on fire, at least at six cars near that mall went up in flames so that is why you are looking at what looks like a war zone and some of the video because it was igniting, popping, and combined with the jet fee will this thing was pretty much a disaster. so going back to send it our thoughts and prayers to this little girl's family who is now find to coach is not coming home. more details as we get it. >> trace: alexis mcadams we will get back to you as the news lawrence. thank you, talking about this and reporting on the ground as there are a number of injuries. a number of injuries of people around there, some of them are reported burns are. we do not know if those people are actually in the vicinity of the crash itself or if they were in the homes that caught fire. there were certain row homes that were nearby the small. the mall itself, the roosevelt model, includes stores like

macy's and address for less and it has things like raising cane's, a series of restaurants on the outside. there's apparently crashed in an intersection very near the mall. so the injuries happened in the people who are near the areas of walking or in the homes in nearby. but the authorities have not told us exactly where the injuries happen, just that they did happen. it is interesting because there is also a report from fox affiliate and philadelphia who says that they found debris scattered in a wide area. and then they found a quarter of a mile away was an actual oxygen tank. and there was no speculation as to see if the oxygen tank was damaged in any capacity so we do not know that. but a lot of the airline exports -- experts are speculating may be oxygen played a role in this. it is early, nobody knows, because other airline exports will say we don't really know. they think it probably looks like engine

failure and our own jon scott will join us later. thinks it might be something to do with the weather, with the spatial disorientation, with losing the instruments and then plummeting to the ground because of some sort of disorientation. i want to bring in a witness to this crash in philadelphia. i'm not sure if you can hear me here, but i just want to know when you say witness, i want to know what you saw at the time and what you heard if you can describe it for us. >> you guys have been airing it. >> trace: kyle? >> i was in d.c. covering the incident in there and when i was in the philadelphia area, all of a sudden i witnessed this huge fireball and flames were everywhere. and i rushed to the scene and that is when literally everything in front of me was on fire. sparks were scattered everywhere from the plane. i went out to cover it

would almost immediately the officers came up to me and said i had to get out of the area. so i was scrambling to find another vantage point as everything was unfolding. and that is what i witnessed. i think i witnessed the flames everywhere, and debris scattered everywhere. this press conference you did hear the governor and the mayor reiterated not to touch any of the aircraft parts because it is part of the crime scene investigation. when i covered the incident in d.c. as well the same sentiment was shown there as well. do not touch anything in the ground as well because it is still a crime scene investigation right now is they work to figure out what happened. >> trace: i'm just wondering did you see because there are reports of injuries on the ground did you see anybody who had been heard? anybody who you believed that might have been hurt, or did you hear about where the debris actually went to? is that the debris that started the fires and the row houses of?

or was that the flames and the actual explosion itself? >> i think that the flames were a big part of it, really, honestly. the flames were so intense and as you see the damage is so widespread and as far as seeing any victims on the ground, i just saw people running. running away from the scene. that is primarily what i witnessed. i did not see anybody who was injured or had burns on them but i did see a lot of people running away from the scene and as i said as it was happening it was happening so quickly so fast. that is when i tried to get that those images but again the police were just escorting everybody else. the damage and debris field is so wide and they just are very worried about contamination keeping everybody safe. >> trace: could you smell anything? was there smell in the air? could you smell the jet fuel? >> of course i could spell that and then

obviously the smoke from the fire itself. and it was very intense very intense. can barely breathe with that. i'm covering fires i'm fairly used to that but that was more intense since it added jet fee will -- fuel on top of the regular fire. really intends to see that unfold. >> trace: interesting because you look at this and the pictures are just amazing of the explosion. i'm wondering do you know did you have anybody you talked to anybody who was closer who might have felt the heat? was there any feeling of how strong this actual heat and how far that it was actually felt? >> i think that everyone you know when adrenaline rushes i think everybody would focus on getting out of the area as everything was happening. and i do not think you know in that moment you feel that you want to get out you want to get out of harm's way.

that is primarily what i want us to do as well. as i said escorting me and everybody basically out of the area as the fires and flames were burning. so the injuries that people probably felt on the ground. civilians were definitely impacted and i was impacted as well. i see it as well but you know what does take a toll on you when you cover the types of incidents that you need to be focused on getting the story directly to the public. because that is what they deserve they deserve the real story they deserve what is going on on the grounds and what is happening in their community. >> trace: i'm wondering if people had a chance that we are seeing this wreckage come down if people had a chance to scatter or was it just too fast to? >> i think it was too fast. now everybody is kind of looking and veering on and trying to see you know what is going on on

the ground. what is down there and the houses that were on fire, the damage to all of that. and the court and is so wide and authorities are concerned that the evidence could be contaminated. especially with the weather as well. i think everybody is airing on the side of caution especially with a large debris field. and a large perimeter since it is a large crime scene. the darkness and the weather that those a few things do not help in the situation. >> trace: thank you for your first hand knowledge of this. we appreciate this. i kind of want to piggyback on what kyle was stating -- saying because fox 29 drew anderson was reporting earlier. we have weather reports and i will put this up there for you. jon scott was saying he thinks weather was a factor. he was in philadelphia driving throughout the type -- time of the crash. singing kites was not a factor due to the

plane's altitude at the time of the crash meaning for planes and ice you need to be at hire them -- altitude where the temperature is a lot colder. the pilots did have to deal with some rain and may have experienced whiteout conditions from low cloud coverage. the point being that jon scott brought this up, that the part that's may have lost instruments as they went into this cloud cover. and then they actually got something known as spatial disorientation where you can't tell up from down. there is an old term when you were flying called flying by the seat of your pants. it means you are drawn into the seat itself when you are drawing straight and level. sometimes people and pilots will rely on that to keep them level and fly out of the clouds but spatial disorientation is very real, very dangerous, and many planes have been put into death spirals because of that. i want to bring in fox report anchor and licensed by that jon scott because we talked about the weather and if you did not hear

it and they were saying i think was not a factor due to the planes altitude at the time of the crash, but your point was not necessarily icing but instruments being in low cloud cover and the possibility of that causing problems for the pilots. explained that. >> as you mentioned, i was in philadelphia, i was driving through philadelphia tonight around the time of the crash and when i heard about it i looked at the thermometer on my truck and it said 49 degrees. so it would have been very close to that at 1600 feet which is the maximum altitude that they reached. icing meaning isa coaching the wings and causing the plane to behave erratically and maybe come down, that was not a factor. i have to wonder if they didn't either lose instruments or lose the lighting in the cockpit somehow. right after takeoff. to get only to 1600 feet

and come down the way they did suggests they lost control of the airplane. i think that is because they could not tell up from down. now, it could have been a case where maybe they knew they had a problem, maybe they tried to pull back on the yoke and did that incorrectly and something might have fallen off the plane it. if they find a piece of a wing or the horizontal stabilizer tomorrow and somebody's backyard that will tell them a lot about what caused this accident. >> trace: i was reading this earlier this is the associated press saying the flight data shows the flight taking off from the airport fix zero six p.m. and seeing it disappear off the radar 30 seconds later climbing to an altitude of 1600 feat. the process of disappearing from radar is that when you lose the transponder where can radar pick you up until you get to an altitude where it can no longer scan?

>> the radar you see those antennas swirling around in circles. so they register i do not know exactly what the speed is put the radar will sweep around in a 360-degree circle and maybe every 15 seconds or so it will pick up a target. in this case and the jet. the fact it disappeared from radar simply means the radar turned away and when it came back the jet was gone. which based on the speed with which this thing dropped makes complete sense. >> trace: i want you to listen with me because we just got our first recording of the audio. the tower audio with this plaintiff. it is a little long so it clearly starts before the plane took off. i want you to listen and we can analyse it on the backside. watch this. >> medevac med service 056 on departure 290,

runway 24 takeoff 25010. medevac service 056 on departure turn to 90, runway to force it for take off. medevac med service 056 departure one, two, three 48. 056 medevac thank you. medevac med service 056 contact one, two, three .8 medevac med service northeast tower, medevac med service northeast tower 056. >> frequency? 056 northeast tower how do you hear this translation? medevac med service 056 northeast tower. >> 56 fox trot standby

one i will get back to you when i can. >> 24 what is going on there? >> 755 we kind of lost aircraft we are not exactly sure what happened so we are trying to figure it out. for now that... will be closed. >> all right. >> i'm sure you copy that but right now we are going to call the field closed. we will try to get you out of there when we can. if we can't we will have to turn you over to... standby for now. >> trace: so the audio runs roughly 2 minutes. and you can see in the first 12, 14 seconds, you have to medevac plane responding. 290 they respond and then i'm not sure if they respond to twice

but it is possible they responded twice and then you have this series of medevac and there is no response at all. so it appears like after wheels up there was no response. do you find something different and that? >> no, i think you have it exactly right. one of the pilots replays, restates the intended takeoff runway and heading after takeoff. taking off on runway 24 and then they are supposed to turn about 15 degrees to the right as they climb with the heading of 290. and the tauber asks them to switch over to see the approach which for those who don't know it is a different traffic controller that covers a larger area outside the actual airfield. so they apparently never did that because you can hear some agitation in the tower controllers a voice when he is asking

if they are on frequency. they never switched over to the other frequency which normally happens when you get to about 1500 feet or so. so i think, pardon me, they were already having problems. again, that heading they were supposed to fly to 90 i need to look carefully at a map at where this accident happened took place. but i believe that they went to be on to 290 and almost made 180-degree turn and flew back to the east instead of the west which is there an intended direction and what air traffic control told them to do. they went back to the east and crashed east of the airport i believe. and that tells me they were already lost. >> trace: my thoughts exactly because you are looking at this and as we explained the other night when they are giving you things they are giving you compass directions and exactly right where you think maybe they turn, maybe

they recognized there was a problem. the old rule is it that you av eight, navigate, then communicate. no time to communicate you want to make sure you get the plane right. so maybe this was an attempt to head back to the airport. maybe they recognize the problem before because it got to 1600 feet and then it was well before they got to 1600 feet there was no, there was a zero communication between the atc, the air traffic controller, and the pilots. but it seems like there might have been some action right before or right after they got to 1600 feat. >> i'm curious you do not hear a mayday from the pilot anything like that. you are exactly correct. supposed to fly the plane first and the last thing you do is talk on the radio. no mayday nothing like that. so it is very strange but i think, my gut tells me they will find it was a loss of control and probably loss of instruments somehow that

led to this accident. now, one related note is if the pilot found that may be they have an airspeed indicator suddenly climbing very quickly that tells them they are not leaving the ground now they are heading toward the ground. they may have pulled back on the yoke and that could have broken something off the airplane. you can do that you can overstress an airplane. you can snap a wing go off if you act too quickly at high speeds. and do something like that could have happened. at that point they don't have an airplane to control that all. >> trace: but i wonder if you you go through the process of elimination and it is all early but if you go to the process of elimination if, in fact, they were not on the heading they were given, and they tried to turn back, that would indicate that maybe it

wasn't this catastrophic thing, this inside explosion, maybe it was something they simply lost and they tried to correct the ship before it went down to. it stalled and then went into a spin. >> sure, when you look at the angle which they came to earth that does not necessarily mean that something had broken off. it is hard to describe for people who do not fly but spatial disorientation is so wicked. i have mentioned that is what killed jfk jr., cobe bryant crash, because you were in the clouds, you can't see anything. your ears, your inner ear is telling you that this way is that when it is really the other way. it is just very difficult. you have to rely on your instruments and did for some reason they are unable to see their instruments they have instrument failure it would have been very,

very difficult to bring that plane and safely anywhere. >> trace: good analysis is always. standby if you well i want to go back to alexis mcadams she has breaking news. >> i have been trying to make calls to fire officials on the ground because the question is now we know about the poor little girl and her mom and the crew members from mexico that lost their lives, you are looking at burnt out cars, were people in those cars at the time of the plane went down? the fire official tells me here heard about at least one person who was walking around he said quote, on fire, near the scene. a lot of foot traffic in this area. and whatever happened with this explosion going down we know there is also some type of gas league or gas main break that happened. there was fumes and fuel everywhere. according to fire officials they say there were some burn victims. we don't know how bad those injuries are but

when you look at this area that looks like some type of war zone you have to think about the other people on the ground that were hurt. this was during rush hour, a busy area, a busy city, a busy time to be on the road, on this plane goes right down. i want to talk about the debris field because you were talking about this earlier. the medical accident tanks, where all of the pieces of the plane went. the medical oxygen tanks about a quarter of a mile from the scene. so with the power going down on the oxygen tanks on board that went flying in. there was also a mcdonald's nearby looking at maps and then also a diner. witnesses and workers at that diner say somebody was sitting down having dinner when a big piece of medal broke right through the glass of the diner and hit somebody in the head. i do not know how badly that man is dead but that is on the ground from reporters trying to get information. going back to what we know about the victim just for people tuning in we can tell you it is a young girl they won't give her a check because they don't want to give

too much information as they still have not identified her by name but we know her and her mom died on their way back to mexico as well as the crew members. in terms of how experienced they were i know you and john have been talking about that. we were told by the jet company they were very experienced. so you can do with that as you will. for faa officials around there, and tsp is on scene, the governor, the mayor, we are hoping and that next briefing they will give a little bit more information. asking for prayers and telling people do not touch anything. that is because jet fuel is so dangerous and the whole area is basically contaminated. they have officials on their trying to clear that out as well. >> trace: great information thank you. i want to read what alexis was stayed -- saying there. all six people were from mexico, the child had been treated for a life-threatening condition and was then trying -- being transported to -- home

to mexico according to fire rescue ambulance. the final destination was tijuana after a stop in missouri. fork remembers the board. this is a seasoned crew they are saying, everybody involved in these flights goes through -- flights goes through rigourous training and quotes, when an incident like this happens it is a rigourous and surprising this, by the way, if you did not hear it, this is a high end rescue ambulance service, air ambulance service if you will. the same company that actually picked up david ortiz when he was shot in the dominican republic a seven -- several years ago they took him back to boston. this is one of those places, one of those people or services that uses great jets. this is a great airplane, their safety record is immaculate. let's bring in retired airlines captain , a

former flight nurse who served 20 years ago, a former black hawk helicopter crew chief, and retired air force brigadier general. thank you, gentlemen, all for coming on. i want to go to you if i can very first, general, i'm hearing i'm sorry, jonathan, let me go to you. i'm curious what you think when you hear jon scott, me talking about the whole conversation between the air traffic control and the plane. they were certainly confirmation when there had been just wheels up but after that it was silence. and they went to 1600 feet and there was no response at all from the airplane. what do you make of that? jonathan. >> i think that av aiding and controlling the aircraft at that point is the primary concern of.

i think it is not unusual. especially if there was an emergency. >> trace: that is exactly right. steve, to you, give me your take on what you think might have happened. there is a lot of different theories out there. what are you leaning toward when you see the condition of the plane at? when you hear the transmission between the air traffic control tower, and the pilots. what is your best assessment of this. >> i will tell you what, a lot has happened in the past 48 hours. this is a hard assessment to make. i heard about disorientation, that is a possibility. but based on what you said about the training of this company and what they go through that type of training, i doubt very seriously these seasoned instrument pilots would have had an issue that

they could not recover from unless everything went dark ship. and then god knows what you do in that situation. without instruments conditions would be very difficult to maintain a straight level slide. and remember, trace, 1600 feet, that is just a couple heartbeats. it could have been also something catastrophic happened to the flight control system, they could have lost an engine, gone sideways, spiraled into the ground. it is only speculation, my friend, at this point. >> trace: is the indication to you, steve, when you see and hear that we were talking about the fact they were told to go 290 and they ended up kind of coming back to the east? that is where the crashes. does that sound like an attempt to try to write this airplane at? >> either that or they had an engine failure that turned that specific heading that is what happens if you don't catch engine

failure real quick and press on the writer to maintain a straight line of flight the airline will go to the left or the right. i think that will be my first guess. 1600 feet, radically a departure from a climb out and knows the airplane -- the nose of the airplane going the opposite direction. potential engine failure to me at this juncture. but 1600 feet. >> trace: let me pause you there really quick. i want to dip into our local affiliate because they are talking to somebody on the scene. >> a child with the head laceration, went through the red pickup window, if the kid, and the parents were sheltering help us! help us! nobody was around to help at the time. officers just approaching. i took the shirt off my back, gave to them, put it on his head, i said key pressure. i run back to my car, i got rags, i got anything i could find to absorb the blood, push upon.

my mom worked at a doctor's office. she was there, she was helping me. she is disabled, she does not walk fast. she was walking fast. and they were very grateful to us. they so thank you very much we got this now please try to get out of here safely. three or four car accidents and getting out of the mall. and i'm like i'm getting out of here. i threw up twice. like because the adrenaline just said hello, i am here and i threw up. it was a very shocking and disturbing experience seeing everything that happened. >> did you know it was a plane right away? >> i figured it was a helicopter or a plane because somebody was saying it was a 747 and i was like it is too small we would have

heard it big engine. i find it weird that... my sister works on airplanes. literally at northeast airport. and she text me saying did you see that? because she knew i was going to be right there. she was worried my entire family was worried, my daughter texting me saying please be okay please be okay please be okay. and i already got home and i collapsed. i was unable to do anything for a while. >> when the plane initially crashed you said the truck next to you got... into three did you see anything like that else going on around you. >> very much so. the car parked on chapmans on the side had a hole at least 2 feet big in its windshield.

>> [inaudible question by the media] >> i don't know i looked and i could not see anywhere. i'm hoping the child got out safely. i don't not know anymore, i wish i could find them, because a small silver car, and say thank you for being alive, thank you for getting out. the brunt of the impact was absorbed by dunkin' donuts. and i have been scared. >> you have been listening to a witness described the horrific moment that he witnessed this plane crash in northeast... >> trace: that was graphic and that was about as good a description as we have heard about what was happening on the ground when the plane hit. just to kind of couple up on that, nbc philadelphia reporting singing six people were injured in this. the six victims were all

taken to temple university hospital. talking about people on the ground. temple university hospital jean campos three people were treated and released while three others remain in the hospital. the victims include an 11-year-old boy who suffered head injuries, a 31-year-old man who suffered head injuries, and the 30-year-old woman who suffered facial injuries according to the source. and he was talking about a child that got hurt, we have no idea if it is the same child, but it gives you an indication of exactly what was happening on the ground here. very descriptive. mark, to you, when you look at all of these scenarios, and you hear people say i think it might have been some oxygen containers because this was a medevac plane. when you hear those types of things coupled with spatial disorientation and engine loss what do you think? >> initially it is definitely all speculation at this point. there is no way of

knowing at this moment. not until we get a look at the black box. see with the controls were see with the internal communication was. no good way to identify that however each of those things others have discussed there all of those are distinctly possible they are common. i lost a very good crew chief friend of mine who lifted off in his first flight in honduras and he went and averted -- inadvertent imc and disorientation in the clouds. this happens, and balance issues happen after take off. there is a number of things, flight controls get lost especially on an aircraft like that very sensitive to fly anyways. and a number of things it could be going on. but we will not know until we get access to that box. >> trace: i think that is exactly right. general walker, what do you think? as you see the video and

we see this thing we don't even know, general, if this thing was on fire when it came down. there were of course reports and there was video that made it look like he was on fire but other video where looks like it was just lit up and not on fire at all. >> i say was not on fire at all. it looked like the landing lights because typically it is not mandated, what typically you keep the landing lights on when you are within 10 miles of the airport or below 10,000 feet. plus, from the angle of dissent it looked to me like a stall. so it had to have been the control surface or engine loss or the instruments totally went out. but i am telling you i know people throughout my career who end up working for some of these companies, they are well experienced. even if the instruments went dark, i do not see some experienced crew just falling out of the sky like that.

i think there had to be some other mechanical malfunction. >> trace: steve, back to you, captain, i appreciate you were just talking about this and we interrupted you a little bit talking about the fact this might have been engine loss, might have been engine failure. is that highly unusual to lose both engines? when you were talking about if you lose one engine it is kind of the old dead engine, dead router -- rudder. is that a fair assessment of? >> perfectly fair. >> trace: if that happens and you lose and engine you would know which engine and you would know how to compensate, right? >> you should but it is important to step on the right rudder if you step on the wrong rudder you are exacerbating the situation of the engine failure. something catastrophic might have i don't think

that can be ruled out but one of the gentlemen said we won't know until we got the tapes through the recorders. the black data recorder. and they paint a real clear picture, trace, of what happened, i hope they can find them i hope they survived the crash of. >> trace: i want to play this just in case you gentlemen have not heard this. this is because it was our first time hearing this this is the audio from between the air traffic controller and the flight and of the medevac flight. i want to play this thing is about 2 minutes. the first part is important because you actually hear the medical transport plane responding and then they go silent. watch this. >> medevac med service 056 on departure turn right hitting 290, runway 24 takeoff 25010. >> medevac mat surface

056 confirming on departure turned right 290, runway to force it for take off. >> medevac med service 056 contact the late departure one, two, three 48. >> 056 medevac thank you have a good day. >> medevac med service 056 northeast tower contact philippe one, two, three .8. >> medevac med service northeast tower. >> medevac med service 056 northeast tower are you on frequency? >> 056 northeast tower how do you hear this... >> 056 northeast tower. >> 56... standby one. i will get back to you when i cannot. -- i can.

>> 24 what is going on down there? >> 755 we have a lost aircraft. not exactly sure what happened so we are trying to figure it out. for now the field will be closed. >> all right... thank you. i'm sure you copy that but right now we are going to call the field closed you will try to get you out of there when we cannot. if we can't we will have to take you over to atlantic but standby. >> trace: as you hear that and you know that the medevac plane the learjet 55 responded saying guess they would go 290 and after that it was silence. what do you make of that? >> i don't think that i am qualified. i know what 290 is but i am a nurse, i would be in the back of the

aircraft passed that question onto somebody else. >> trace: mark, can you answer that? >> radar cycle spin around and it will track at one time by the time it comes around it is gone the aircraft has dropped out. at only 1600 feet the learjet 55 has a top speed of about 540 miles an hour... up there and you can see the nose over that happens in the video. that nose comes down and it is accelerating and drops on the radar quickly. it says a lot that the pilots even had a chance to respond. no mayday know anything. so it will be important for us to hear those internal communications that will tell us more about what happened. >> trace: or you saying that if they did not respond immediately

rule 88 -- 88, navigate, communicate. >> always fly the bird first. a lot of that you can do. they are trained to do that. they do these exact scenarios in the simulation over and over. they create failure to test through it. like others have said the high level training, the high-level experience that these guys have, when these conditions happen, they usually know how to respond to. the fact that there was no response gives you an indication they were either really busy are unable to respond. >> trace: to you, steve, captain, it is important to know they were off at least air traffic controller they were up for 30 seconds and then they went off radar. it is possible it

happened before. at what point does the plane come off of radar and could this have happened? could they have gotten 1600 feet in 20 seconds, 22 seconds it happened then and by 30 seconds they were off of radar. >> that is highly probable that it could happen. as far as going off the radar you are in radar control when you were flying to 9:00. the runway when you hit altitude one commentator saying you have... control... control as well and that they channel that radar until you turn over to the crews faa radio until you are talking to center control. i hope that explains it. but i think the point that it is hard for all of us to grasp is to a falcon jet and the coast guard it is a little bit larger than a... and a little bit smaller than a... and a 1600 feet is just like that, trace.

you have the power on the engine it is so quick. these guys were so busy, what happened to them was so shocking. they could not communicate. aviate, navigate, communicate, they probably did not have time to think about communicating at that structure. >> trace: captain, that they have time to recover? , 1600 feet is there anything you can do were not enough time? i know that there is a lot of people who say you need 45 seconds you give us 45 seconds and we can pretty much recover. if you were up to 1600 feet and you lose the plane at 22 seconds if you have some kind of major issue, does that give you enough time, enough altitude to recover? >> yes. you can have an engine failure from takeoff up to altitude and still survive. and a simulator as well the commentators we are well trained.

i can't tell you the amount of times we... and the naval flight training i can't tell you how many times they pulled the engine and critical altitude 300 feet, 500 feet, beyond the 1600 feet. we were pulling engines all the time. it seems -- getting us used to pulling on the right rudder. so at 1600 feet you can recover unless they did the procedure is wrong which i doubt based on their training. again, what does that do? it brings us to the fact that it could have been a clearly catastrophic failure. caused the plane to come out of the sky. >> trace: general walker, any speculation on what that catastrophic failure might be? we had an airline expert on earlier who believes it was may be the oxygen tanks. we know oxygen itself does not burn but if one of those tanks explodes it is a strong enough to

pierce the aircraft. something of that nature do you think is that if he is noble -- feasible explanation? >> i will say this. c-17, medical evacuation with oxygen tanks, the way they are configured, it is highly unlikely an oxygen tank just exploded. i tended to believe it is more catastrophic and full service failure of some sort. like the other speakers. >> trace: it really is fascinating. mark, you look at this and you think all pilots all -- are taught to handle emergencies but if there is something cataclysmic that happens there is very little you can do. when you see the plane coming out of the sky like it came out of the sky it appears as if there was that there wasn't no remedy. this was one of those on survivable crashes.

>> it is pure physics. 1600 feet around 500 miles an hour or even 300 miles an hour or even 100 miles an hour. that nose goes over once it gets too unusual altitude and it starts to plummet, even if you were able to get that flat and level inertia is still taking you down. so it is a lot to recover quickly. like others are saying it is something that they can do typically if they make the initial corrections quick and these guys seem to be able to do that. i agree with pretty much everyone else it absolutely looks like, seems like a, behaves like, catastrophic failure of either flight control or anything the aerodynamics of that aircraft just lost complete control. >> trace: i wonder,

jonathan, if you have a different perspective on this. the oxygen so forth -- forth if you have been a nurse in the back of the aircraft, were you ever concerned about medical grade oxygen? >> absolutely not. i mean i think that the faa and the securing devices and the regulations would make that a very wildly low concern. >> trace: gentlemen, standby if you would do. i want to play some of the sound. we have been looking at pictures and the upper left hand corner this is shortly after the crash. i want to play some sound of the people who came by, the witnesses, what it looked and felt like a shortly after crash. watch this. >> what the [bleep].

>> did she witness it? >> what the [bleep]. >> oh, my god. >> you just say get down get down to get down to. but obviously the plane is getting lower and lower and lower. >> i have no idea. >> into the plaza, into the dunkin' donuts, everywhere, i have never seen nothing like that a date in my life i have never seen nothing like that. >> stay away from the scene. if you see debris,

called 911. do not touch any think. >> it was a big ball of fire that flew into the sky. it all started shaking. >> trace: that ball of fire was caught on camera many times. i want to bring in philadelphia resident lindy li who actually saw the crash. her parents go to a church and lived near the area. what can you tell us about what you saw and what you heard? >> thank you so much for having me. my family actually bought the church because they are christians and they wanted to revitalize at this run down church. we have a weekend to school for kids we had to cancel because there is no way we will ask kids to come into this area. i was heading that way because we generally do that to the weekend to make sure everything is right for the kids and i saw this massive fireball. i don't have any other way to describe it. we were immediately told to turn back and i tried to argue my case and say we own the church down

the street but we are not allowed to go in the area it is completely cordoned off. it happened around 6:30, 7:00, the entire area blocked off. this is terrific. i'm kind of shocked this would happen here in my hometown of. >> trace: and when you set your appearance on the church and where in relation to the church. i mean how far would you say that the church is from the actual crash site to? is it near the mall? is it a block or further away? >> it is on the same street it is on cotton avenue i would say it is about i'm not really great about math, i know an asian, but a quarter of a mile maybe less than that. close enough for me to see it clearly and also to smell there is a smell it smelled like burnt tires. we weren't allowed in. the police immediately descended upon the scene, and people were running around screaming.

it was just a terrifying it was like something out of hell. how did this happen twice in one week? my parents are shell-shocked everybody is completely at a loss for words. >> trace: did you talk to anybody close? people running by kind of scampering and moving about, did you ask anybody, talk to anybody who was closer to this to kind of get an idea of what they were seeing and feeling? >> i was just asking people what is going on because it was not immediately clear to me that was a plane crash. i found out from the news. if i did not have access to what was going on because i wasn't paying attention to the sky i just saw the fireball. i was awaiting through a x to find out what happened i had to ask the people around me what happened. somebody said we are under attack. that was a reaction i heard on the street. there is a lot of

confusion on the ground to. the reason behind it was not immediately clear to the people on the ground. this is so sad. this is supposed to be a happy time for philly we have egos going to the super bowl this is heartbreaking really sad for this community. >> trace: thank you for coming on and sharing your story with us we appreciate it very much. >> thank you, trace. >> trace: let's go back to alexis mcadams to get some breaking news the latest on what she has hearing from new york. >> i just wanted to start again as people at home are tuning in with who is on board this medical planer. we know it was a six people who were all originally from mexico, that includes the crew and the pilot all the volunteering i am told to help a little girl through this jet rescue air ambulance planner. so she had been in philadelphia getting all of this treatment i don't know how sick she had been but they said she would not have made it if she had not been sponsored to be able to come to philadelphia to have these life-saving treatments.

she is leaving today there is a little celebration i am told, she gets on the plane with her mom and this crew and they are all excited to go back to tijuana and that plane went down and 30 seconds. they just boarded it was a fireball and i think some of the best stuff we have been able to taken was that we just heard from, just a short time ago and that live interview with one of the local stations, that sounded like a massive explosion. he came out he thought they were under attack in the area. and he says he was trying to help render aid he said his mom works at a doctor's office so he tried to use any skill he had to jump into action. that is what this comes down to this is about people down there in philadelphia helping each other right now. there is just fuel everywhere. in terms of the whether it is kind of training there right now they were able to put out the fires in the area. around six homes were on fire. they were row homes i don't know how many people were in those homes but i'm told by fire officials they were able to get those people

out and get them to safety, also six cars were lit on fire. and some of the images we have put the entire car was parked out. just the outline of these vehicles. it looks like it was a war zone there. who was in the car? where they badly burned? one of the firefighters was telling me it was a three-alarm fire all of their guys out there including ambulance as well to try and help and they tell me they were bring victims. so that is what we are hearing so far. in terms of some of the details on who was injured, fox digital is telling a six patients taken to temple university hospital on their campus. three treated and released, three in fair condition, no ages were provided. but one of the things to when you talk about the debris field and you talk about breaking news you go to these crime scenes, trying to figure out the lay of the land, for the lay of the land here ghost for quite some ways. blocks and plunk spirit -- blocks and blocks. they found a medical oxygen tank...

mile from the scene it. and then glass smashed and entered somebody that is what we are hearing right now. >> trace: we will get back to you soon. let's go back to fox news anchor and licensed pilot jon scott. we hear and we see the pictures of the explosion and we know this plane was going back to mexico but there was also a stop in between from philadelphia to the branson, missouri, area. is it routine to fill the plain? i know that the range is some 2200 miles for the learjet 55, would you filled the plane that you are going to mexico even though you are stomping -- stopping and branson? or is it routine to get a little bit of gas in philly and more brass when it -- gas when you get to branson, missouri? >> that is the pilot's decision. jet fuel like everything else has gotten very expensive these days and it is possible to look up the prices for the

routine will fly and you might want to save a dollar a gallon or something by stopping in a place like branson. hard to know. but, yes,, they were planning to go quite a ways. branson is a significant. more than a thousand miles i think. so they would have had quite a load of jet fuel on board which explains the size of the fireball when the plane it did come down to. >> trace: we had both captain steve former american highlight... john you and others that seem have kind of put maybe a backseat to the whole theory of the oxygen tanks exploding here because it does not seem to, it does not seem to be a major risk. and so with that it seems like there was some kind of mechanical failure on board this airplane. >> that is when i am thinking.

and again medevac crews are usually very experienced we don't know anything about this crew with the company said that the pilot had i believe a thousand hours that its a good amount of experience. i am reminded of a crash that took place i want to say five years ago or so in the san diego area. medevac plane with i think three or four people on board was coming back to its home base, the weather was not particularly good. and the pilot was not able to complete the instrument -- instrument landing he hoped for so he asked to do i'll go around on a visual flight rules and that is what he started to do. but as he did so he over flu, he overshot the runway he was hoping to land on. so what happened as he put the wing, he went into a very steep bank. but when you do that you have to have the

airspeed for it. because the air needs to stay attached to the upper surface of the wing. he was flying too slowly , the air detached, they called out a stall, and people will be hearing a lot about the possibility of a stall in this case the wing simply stopped providing lift and that plane went down. that medevac plane went down and san diego. they might find that something similar happens here because if they were in the clouds, if they lost their instruments or something, if the captain pointed the nose up to high again you need that airflow in the wings and i know you know this, trace, from your time as a pilot, but you need that airflow over the wings. if you exceed what is called the critical angle of attack, that airflow detaches from the wings, the wings a loose lift, and that is when the nose and goes down. that could be what

preceded this particular crash. >> trace: standby if you will. good analysis. that is a picture of the learjet 55 right there. we are just getting word, by the way, that the philadelphia crash was the second fatal incident in 15 months for jet rescue which is the medevac company that crashed their plane it. the plane was crass to tonight. and 20235 crew members were killed when their plane overran a month -- runway in a central mexican state, and crashed into a hillside. so the second crash and 15 months for jet rescue which will bring up some questions for investigators because we are now, despite what has happened this week, we are in the safest time in aviation for the past 15 years in the history of aviation. and to have two crashes in your company in 15 months will raise some questions. we are coming right back with breaking news. and here w