a terrible situation. please, yes. >> thank you. mr. president. did our prime minister persuade you not to put tariffs on the uk, and as prime minister, do you think that vladimir putin is a man who will keep his word? >> president trump: he tried [laughter] he was working hard, i'll tell you that. he earned whatever the hell they pay him over there. but he tried. i think there is a very good chance, that, in the case of these two great friendly countries we could very well end up with a trade deal where the where the tariffs wouldn't be necessary. he earned whatever they pay them. he was working hard at lunch my very receptive to it. i think in all fairness, all

seriousness i think we have a very good chance at arriving at a very good deal. j.d. and scott tan howard, all the people working on it and i think we have a good chance at arriving at a deal that could be terrific, really terrific for both countries. speak on second part of the question, my views on putin are pretty well rehearsed and pretty well known. my concern is that it was a deal and i hope there is a deal, it must be a lasting deal that is not a temporary measure. that's why i think it's really important that putin knows this deal, historic deal which i very much hope comes about, is there and it's a lasting deal but that we are able to deal with any inclination he has to go again or go further. >> i think will have two deals. i think we have a deal on ending the war and we have a great

trade deal with you and it's an honor to be with you. i want to thank everybody very much. thank you very much. >> reporter: [indistinct question] [applause] >> will: live from the heartland, welcome to "the will cain show." president trump hosting a press conference with u.k. prime minister keir starmer. talking a lot about ukraine and russia. ahead of president zelenskyy going to the white house tomorrow. president trump is optimistic that it will be a good meeting. here's a little bit of what he had to say. >> we'll be signing a historic agreement that will make the united states a major partner in developing ukraine's minerals and rare earths. it's good for ukraine, very good for ukraine and good for us, the american taxpayers will effectively be reimbursed for

the hundreds of billions of dollars poured into helping ukraine defend itself. the minerals agreement will provide the basis for a more sustainable future relationship between the united states and ukraine. >> will: let's bring in ruthless podcast host john ashbrook. what we watched together, keir starmer, u.k. prime minister and president donald trump. obviously a lot of conversation about ukraine and russia and arriving at a peace deal. at the very end you heard from prime minister starmer that his concern is can we get a lasting peace? one that i assume he means will not seek vladimir putin settle for a while and then look for an excuse in the future to march on ukraine or somewhere else in europe. >> yeah, well. what i heard was optimism. optimism for a peace deal and the reason there's optimism is because we have a president whose strong.

president trump is different and he changes the game. i don't know if you saw this, but at the very beginning of their meeting, the prime minister presented president trump with a letter from the king of england and the letter didn't say he was sending a fully armed battalion to remind us of his love. it invited president trump to a state dinner, an unprecedented second state dinner in england. why? because president trump is strong. keir starmer said it was because of the strength of the relationship between the two nations. i actually think it's because of the strength of our great president, donald trump. >> will: i think that's very well observed. i think the world is responding to strength. we are seeing that on all of these different deals when it comes to tariffs. president trump said he feels very receptive to the efforts made today by the english to avoid any tariffs on the u.k. but we are seeing that on economic terms. i think what starmer is concerned about is whether or

not vladimir putin also response to that strength. i think many european leaders are trapped in the mind-set that we live in a post-world war ii or pre-world war ii potentiality of neville churchill appeasing adolf hitler and giving him the sudetenland. if there some type of deal here, it's only going to encourage vladimir putin to move on to his next conquest. the question is whether or not the strength of donald trump holds vladimir putin. >> you've got to think it does. what i heard the president talk about was preserving some of that land for ukraine and you know there are very, very few people in our entire planet who could do that besides donald trump. he projects the sort of strength that our previous president just did not have. that's why i think there is such optimism for peace in that part of the world. >> will: i think that's absolutely true.

i think that's an objective observation. what we have seen repetitively his hand-wringing and perhaps even screaming about whatever it is that donald trump has to say but ultimately a meeting that results in a deal. that seems to be the case as well and we are talking about tariffs. here's donald trump talking about tariffs. >> the tariffs are necessary because we've been treated very unfairly by many, many countries including our friends. friend and foe. but we've been treated very unfairly. at levels that nobody has really ever seen before officially under the biden administration. they really took advantage of the united states. >> what we have seen is canada come to the table. we have seen mexico make accommodations to avoid these tariffs. what we expect to see is europe, including the u.k., make accommodations, strike a trade deal to avoid tariffs. >> yeah, he is resetting the playing field all across the globe. he is sending the message that

america is back and america is number one. if you want to deal with our country, you do it on our terms. that's what he's doing. he is resetting the entire global landscape back to where it belongs with america first and america as the strongest leader on the globe. >> will: do you think the end result of all of this conversation over tariffs -- because the trump administration does say it will be an excellent revenue source. they talk about setting up an external revenue service. you think the end of all of this is that tariffs become a source of taxation that helps alleviate the tax burden on americans? or is it, as you sent, just resetting the global negotiating table and getting better trade deals for america? >> i think it's getting better trade deals. why should foreign companies and foreign countries get all the benefits? why can't american companies have some benefit? president trump is looking out for them and i think that's was

going to benefit? >> will: if that's the case, then those that believe in tariffs as a source of revenue to the federal government should not be quite optimistic perhaps and those that are concerned about inflation should not be so pessimistic because it's really a tool resetting global trade deals. john, i want to talk to you about what you are doing at ruthless. you at the ruthless podcast set in on the first white house pod conference -- press conference. you told me that you are met with smirks and i rules. the smirks and i rules are from the american public to the traditional media covering this. many americans don't trust the media to cover trauma. survey says 67 percent do not trust those that have traditionally held the seats in the white house pool and written the headlines. >> right. i'm telling you what, man. i am surprised that the number

is that low. i think it's much, much higher. nobody believes what they are seeing on the mainstream media. that's why they are pursuing other sources of information because they know people in new media are providing them information that is not expecting -- if there is a bias, people tell you there is a bias. they want something new and that's why they are pursuing it. what this administration is doing is providing a level of transparency and an even playing field for alternative media and the way that no administration ever has. they are not kicking out legacy media. this president has taken more questions from legacy media than joe biden in four years. he has done it in three weeks. it's not that he's not taking questions from legacy media. it's that he's putting new media of equal footing with corporate media and that is very, very good for our country. >> will: i like what you said.

if there is a bias, there's an honesty about the bias. you can't start your relationship with an audience with a lie that you're somehow the objective arbiter of truth. you have to acknowledge your bias to the viewer, the listener. let them compensate with that honesty and then bring on voices to tell you where you might be wrong or where you're falling short but you have to begin your relationship with truth, with honesty. you guys at ruthless are sitting down with karoline leavitt. >> she came in, we taped it last night. unfortunately i have the flu. i did not want to make her sick so a couple of the other for fes did the interview. you ask her long form questions. it's what she does when she's in front of the camera with the american people every single day. this is the same person in any

circumstance. she is so talented. president trump was so smart to take her as his press secretary and we are very lucky someone like her is standing up and giving information to the american people every single day because if you listen to her talk, she says she tries to find out the facts from the experts and deliver those to the american people, unlike with the mainstream media tries to do which is spin the facts for their preferred narrative. >> will: you can check that out at the ruthless podcast. always great to see you. thank you. right now we are awaiting phase one of the epstein files to be released. it could happen at any moment. we are going to walk you through what we know right now ny attorney general pam bondi just wrote a new letter to fbi director kash patel. a longer and happier life.

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>> will: welcome back. another big story that we're watching. >> what you're going to see hopefully tomorrow is a lot of flight logs, names, information. it's pretty sick what that man did. along with his codefendant. >> absolutely. and he had help, that's for sure. >> he sure did. >> will: we are awaiting the epstein files. we are told once they are ready they will be released on the department of justice website. this is the first phase of the document that we could see at any moment. documents approved by attorney general pam bondi and fbi director kash patel. two sources tell fox news these documents have largely been seen in public domain prior to today and may not contain big

surprises. an interesting update the last 45 minutes. ag bondi sent a letter to fbi director kash patel about documents related to epstein that reportedly withheld at the fbi field office in new york. ag bondi writing "i repeatedly questioned whether this was the full set of documents. responsiveness to my request, it was repeatedly assured by the fbi and receive the full set of documents. she goes on to write despite my repeated requests, the fbi never disclosed the existence of these files. thus the latest this hour. let's take a step back and remember what this is all about. accountability and transparency. this whole thing is another example of president trump's promises made, promises kept. >> some people think that one way to build trust is to declassify things so everyone is talking about it, you talked earlier, i don't want to be a conspiracy theorist. if you were president, would you declassify, you can a answer no.

would you declassify 9/11 question. >> yeah. >> jfk files. >> yeah. >> the epstein files. >> yeah, i would. >> will: a little history. back to the beginning, who was jeffrey epstein? jeffrey epstein started out as a math teacher, not very successful, not very renowned, simply a math teacher. he somehow mysteriously parlay that into working at an investment bank, bear stearns. he founded his firm. he raised money, manage money for high net worth individuals, ended up with $577 million in his own net worth. here's what we know about the allegations and charges. in march 2005, a 14-year-old girl alleged to have been taken to the epstein mansion in palm beach, florida. police say epstein should've been charged with unlawful sex

with minors. in 2008 he pleads guilty on one count of soliciting and one count of soliciting from someone under the age of 18. he has given 18 months. then in november 2018 the "miami herald" starts to get interested. 2019, epstein is arrested on sex trafficking charges for incidents dating back to the 2,000 and going through 2005. event of course the part of the story that you're familiar with. jeffrey epstein arrested and in custody in new york city is found unresponsive in his cell 35 days after arrest. his death ruled a suicide. he was facing up to 45 years in prison if convicted. this is just as important of a question. who is ghislaine maxwell, his partner in crime, his girlfriend. jeffrey epstein met her in 1991 reportedly through a mutual

friend. epstein's ex-girlfriend, that's who she is as well, more importantly she is his associate. she was arrested in 2020 on charges relating to epstein's sex trafficking operation. she has been found guilty on 5 out of 6 charges she has been sentenced to 20 years in prison. that's the cliffsnotes version. that's the basics of ghislaine maxwell and jeffrey epstein. want to bring an attorney who represented many of the survivors of epstein's sex trafficking ring. sigrid mcauley joins us. thank you for being with us. what are you hoping to see? what are you hoping to see as we are expecting at least some portion of information released from the epstein files? >> we are hoping to see more of the information about the folks who were involved in this. from the very beginning we have said that epstein did not act alone. you saw that with the

accountability we got when ghislaine maxwell was arrested and imprisoned for over 20 years. again, there were many people within this circle who were helping facilitate these crimes. we are very hopeful with this disclosure that we'll learn more about the individuals that were helping perpetrate these crimes. >> will: i think there's an obvious follow-up. when you say that you're interested in the individuals that helped perpetrate these crimes, are you talking about the alleged johns that would've taken place that would have been innocent some type of customer of jeffrey epstein, patron of what he was peddling to these rich people? or are you talking about people who others behind-the-scenes helping him organize this entire operation? >> of course there is a little bit of both. as you saw this past year we were able to hold two major financial institutions responsible for their efforts in the trafficking jeffrey epstein

was participating in. we certainly have financial institutions, other organizations that as information flows out it comes to light who was helping him, who was involved. we also have individuals of course that were facilitating these crimes providing him with the necessary information, money, things of that nature. there's a lawsuit pending right now against his right hand accountant and right-hand lawyer to hold them accountable for participating in this activity. there were many, many actors who helped him facilitate these crimes. >> will: a lot of attention on the names on jeffrey epstein's flight log who flew on his plane to visit his island. that would be difficult because presumably not everybody there was ever on a flight with jeffrey epstein is somebody who would be guilty of the greater crimes involved in having sex with underaged minors. how will it be parsed out?

how do we know it someone who knew jef jeffrey epstein or patronize with jeffrey epstein? >> it's a great question. there are many clues. we have had the ability to see if you and hopefully with the governments disclosure we are going to see more. what's interesting in those flight logs are the entries were uc individuals see individuals initials and then comment of "five females" or "three females." typically those pilots would not write down those individuals who they were concerned about revealing. that could mean that they were minor children. it could mean they were individuals the pilots maybe didn't know and were just transporting for that one trip. there's a wealth of information, if you study those flight logs very carefully, there's a wealth of information about what was happening in epstein's sphere at any given time. there's also -- the absence of information. >> will: one last question.

when you look at all of this, what was this all about? was this about some rich guy who was helping cater to the kinks and kinds of rich people? was this extortion? blackmail? >> it was a very sinister scheme. this is the longest running sex trafficking operation that certainly i've seen in our history. this went on for decades and decades, hurting hundreds and hundreds of young females. it involved blackmail. it involved all types of different kinds of conduct to help facilitate these crimes. it really is historic in many ways and the fact that there is additional information flowing out from our government is highly important. critical to this is the information that was uncovered for example when his arrest happened, the information that was utilized in the criminal

trial. all that information the american people should be entitled to see and consider. >> will: last question. are you optimistic? do you think we will get the answers to these questions, this information? >> i don't know if we'll have or have all the answers. this was against such a unique and intricate system that went on for so many years and he harmed so many individuals. i'm not sure the survivors will ever get the satisfaction that they walked. maybe this is a step toward a sliver of justice for them. >> will: sigrid mccauley. thank you so much for being with us today. this very complicated story, one that is going to require a lot of investigation and digging into the truth behind jeffrey epstein. legendary actor gene hackman found dead in his home with his wife and dog. what was found at the scene? police now have them saying the

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>> will: the story sweeping holiday. legendary actor jean have been found dead along with his wife and dog. after ruling out foul play officials relabeling the death is suspicious. authorities say the door to the couple's home was open with police finding pills scattered around the bathroom. hackman's wife's body already decomposing. how does this happen? here to help us explain is the wounded blue founder and former police officer randy sutton. why do we hear no foul play and then backing it up and acknowledging it is suspicious? >> when i first heard this early this morning and i heard the words that you just mentioned about no foul play, my curiosity

was piqued because i did not expect to hear that. i think it was done erroneously. that the spokesperson that came out with that probably should every thought that i think once this investigation plays out and we come to the conclusions of what really was the cause of death here, that's when a classification should really go out when you're paraphrasing about what really took place here, is very, very important for law enforcement authorities to get it right. sometimes there is a rush to get things out and sometimes they get a little mixed up. >> will: the odds of two people and a dog dying in the same time frame, not very high. it could've been a a gas leak that led to their death.

the gas company had visited the home. there's also the pills scattered around. i would assume his first you establish a cause of death and a time of death so that you know who died first. shouldn't be difficult. and how they died. >> absolutely, you are correct. the search warrant that was obtained was normal in an unattended death investigation. they would issue the search warrant. one of the things that i found interesting, things to be searched for, flammable liquid. i'm curious as to why that was specifically mentioned in the search warrant. we've heard nothing about any type of fire or combustible experience. critically it is the cause of death that will determine whether or not this was a homicide and suicide, whether

this was -- there so many different things that could play out. it could have been that mr. hackman died and his wife decided she didn't want to go on, that's happened. the placement of the bodies, the bodies had been decomposing. makes it more difficult for the on scene investigators to try to make a determination. when you're looking at a body that's decomposed where injuries might be -- normally might be able to see them on the body prior to decomposition. that process is very destructive to the body and they might not be able to make out some injuries that might be there on the body. the critical thing is the autopsy. that will determine the future course of this investigation.

>> will: how long does it take to get to decomposition? or the modification of hands and feet? >> the decomposition begins almost immediately. as soon as the body, the life force ends, that's when things start to decompose. i don't know the extent of the decomposition. but when you hear the word mummification, that's -- that kind of surprised me. usually mummification takes place over much greater period of time. when the body decomposes and bloats, it's really a very destructive thing to the body. i don't know -- we do know that the last known time that there was contact was with maintenance people, two weeks previous. that's an extended period of time for decomposition to take

place. >> will: randy sutton, thank you for being with us. the next thing we are going to show you. >> [cheers] [bleep] [bleep] >> will: that is at stanford. protesters interrupting a class titled democracy and disagreement. a conversation on higher education in america. that's next.

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>> will: a class at stanford disrupted. former treasury secretary larry summers was sent to have a civil debate in the class and titled democracy disagreement. before sumner's could begin, protests broke out. signs reading larry seminars, your time is up.

[indistinct] the corporate oligarchy. elon musk. >> tax the rich! tax the [bleep] rich! >> will: my next guest responded to this protest saying this is not civil discourse or an acceptable way to demon demonstrate. joe. i am used to seeing this, as are you when it comes to protesters in support of the cause of palestinians. this one was against capitalism, deregulation, and the buzzwords

of oligarchy and elon musk. it's almost as though it doesn't matter with the topic is, this is the tactic. >> you know, it's funny. i debate larry from the right. it's really sad what's happened to our once great universities. i loved my time at stanford. these places have been conquered by activists. whether it's the students, people being allowed on campus, the students should be suspended or expelled. people from off-campus should be arrested. people are part of the activist class of the democrats themselves and the people are too busy or afraid to fight b back. you get a total mess. >> will: the people on the board and i defer to you because you went to stanford. stanford would be typical of most american universities largely helped create this mind-set and ideology that you would get mainstream teaching questioning the valucapitalism g

deregulation. but now any sense of pushback whatsoever, any embrace of those market ideals is met with shouting someone down, not debate. >> our federal government has been funding it. you have seen that we're going to cap nih grants. two-thirds would go to funding. nsf, still funding that, still funding students to get degrees in useless degrees that will leave them into massive debt. we are so many other ways we can fight this. if you are giving money to schools, the government, you don't need to allow them -- if they're not. [indistinct] if the whole activist class between the government bureaucracy and schools. it's exciting to cut the cord and say listen it's time to

behave. >> will: i have read about it and listen to podcasts where you and others have laid out your vision but this is what you are predicated in the entire university on, free thought and free speech. >> it has to be both. you have to fight for civilization and prosperity and truth. you also have to fight against liberalism. liberalism is communism, identity politics, islamism. these are ideologies that will break our civilization. the pursuit of truth, you can have free speech the afternoon was going to break that and what's not okay. >> will: i've heard you talking about in defense of western civilization. that's the role i would hope. it's fascinating. we are keeping up with what you do at the university of austin.

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only pay for what you need ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ baby: liberty. ♪ ♪ >> will: seven members of a transgender vegan cult were arrested and linked to six deaths across three states, including the death of a u.s. border patrol agent killed in vermont last month. the group, known as the xyzians, consisted of many working -- modern society irrevocably broken, embracing a radical, vegan lifestyle. the leader known as ziz referred

to nonvegans as flesh eating monsters and back in 2022 he attempted to fake his own death. joining me now is a former cult member who left his group and is now a host of "the art of being dark" podcast along with retired fbi agent scott duffy. i want to start with you on this. if we were living, i pay attention to the news cycle and alive in the 1970s, we would have wanted to talk about charles manson and his cult in real time, we would not want to analyze jim jones, the massacre in real time. here we have a cult linked to six homicides across the country, and it is unfolding for us in real time. >> yeah, especially since the tragic death of the border patrol agent regarding that car stop in vermont, that is when i really started to hear about this, okay, what was a border patrol agent doing with regards to stopping these individuals,

okay, it is tragic, it is horrible, but is this a one-and-done type situation? than with regards to the news of who and how they are tied together and the different backgrounds, cultural backgrounds, whether it be they are vegan or transgender, it just started to really take a life of its own. crossing from the east to the west. >> will: going to give the audience details on what they believe and how they arrived at gender fluidity or transgender and vegan ideology, but i want to bring you win because you were a member of a cult and you escaped. tell us, what cult was that? quickly, please, what brought you in and what got you out? >> oh, that is a big story. the cult was an alien cult. "vanity fair" did a big piece on it, marie brenner did a piece on it back in 1990, they called

eastside alien, but it was basically a pseudo-religious doomsday cult. the thing that got me out actually was in entanglement with law enforcement, which got escalated quickly, ended up getting drawn into this far right militia group, which have now turned into these modern-day people in our government today, fortunately, and that was the kind of light that came on for me, made me realize it is time to get out of dodge. >> will: thank you for that abridged version, i know that is a big story but i think there is overlap because what i noticed about all of these members of the ziz cult, the zizians, one was making half a million dollars a year on wall street, another worked in the tech sector and had received an award from google. another was at rice university. we are talking about highly educated and sometimes highly professional people that fell into this cult. >> yeah, the cult that i was a part of was filled with ivy league scholars, so it is

not dumb people that get involved in cults. people like to say it is idiots. you listen to people talk, yeah, a lot of the stuff they say is not very intelligent. that is because they are sticking to the script or the party line, so to speak. rational thought, critical thought gets shut down. that is one of the things that happens. i'm not surprised. >> will: that's pretty fascinating that is a rational thought gets shut down. i will go to you, scott. they were self-described rationalists. they wanted to look for a world with logical explanations but at some point they developed this belief according to reports that the human being was split into, they even did sleep deprivations were they thought one half could sleep, meaning half of your mind could sleep and the other half would remain awake, and they also believed by that same extinction that you could switch genders, that you could become one or the other gender because you were na whole person. so a lot here, and it is wrapped up in a lot of stuff that is going on in broader society,

scott. >> yeah, having worked gangs and violent crews in my time in the fbi, you target these individuals because of the violent crimes and the criminal acts that they are committing. we are not interested in any type of groups, whatever their backgrounds are, whatever their beliefs are, whatever they pursue, as long as they're not criminal. but this is mind-blowing, in a sense, that they are very elite, and as they practice that elitism, their intellect and so forth, that here they are undoing themselves in the sense of killing people who are close to them or alleged to be killing people close to them, and really brought law enforcement attention to them quickly. especially with the tragic killing of the border patrol agent. >> will: where you look at it from a criminal perspective, that premise, there is a broader responsibility for the rest of

us to walk down the path of what brings people into something like this, divorcing themselves from reality, and we have arrived at the point think and you can switch your gender, eat only vegan foods, and take directives from your godlike figure named ziz, dar, then you arrive at the place where criminality is possible but it was a long road that got them there, a road i am assuming you traveled to some extent, dar? >> absolutely i did. you know, it is not really helpful for your viewers to kind of frameless as a radical vegan, i forget the other word, the trans-thing, those are things that are salacious and really easy to kind of hook onto. the broadest overview i can say is that the reason people get involved in cults is because there is an emotional backdoor, and emotional void within them,d of hooks them in psychologically. once that happened, once those needs begin to get met, you start to have a suppression of your feelings and your emotions,

which is interesting because ziz, the leader of the group, met a lot of these people at the rationalist society in the bay area, and really what that is is a suppression of your emotional states of mind, and if you can't think for yourself, you can't express yourself, you can't share your feelings and thoughts on things, you are in a bad, bad place. once that place actually led me being investigated by scott at some point. >> will: right, that's a really interesting explanation and my suspicion is you are right, dar, on the basic human need to allow someone to end up in a place where they follow someone else blindly, from a cult perspective, but it doesn't escape my attention that many of the cults from the '70s, for example the manson cult, tied in some ways to the hippie movement. you are the heaven's gate cult of the 90s tied up in extraterrestrial alien focus. and now we're talking about something that is tied, to some extent, to the trends of today, vegan or transgender. that is not to indict those entire communities, obviously,

but the cult praise on what is also a trend in the broader culture. >> i don't think they were praying on that at all, actually, that just happened to be a byproduct. look, the trans people that i have in my family and in my life are some of the bravest people i have ever met in my life. bar none. it is an extremely challenging position to be in a society where that is not the norm. we were vegetarian back in the day, then we became vegan, so does that make me a radical? no, it is a form of behavior, emotion, thought, and information. >> will: i appreciate that. 15 seconds left in the program and this is not to indict anyone community at large but i do think there is deeper analysis about what is motivating all of these people, not just salaciousness. thanks for joining us here, i appreciate dar and scott and i appreciate you. "the five" next. ♪ ♪ >> greg: hello. an