shield. david: you heard it here. that's it for "forbes on fox." have a wonderful, wonderful weekend. >> today, it's immoral? >> forgive me for i have as i understand. >> sarah palin blasting the white house and its big government spending, calling it immoral t. may be costly, but is it really a sin? and hypocrisy alert. car czar steven ratner cruising the streets in gas guzzlers and foreign autos. what message is that sending to america? plus, massive attacks on america's most sensitive computers. after trillions in bailouts and handouts, is the government cheaping out on cybersecurity? why we could be dropping the ball on the biggest threat ever to our financial system. all that and -- >> what's up? i'm bruno. >> bruno, sacha baron cohen doesn't have to be the only one to make money on his followup

to "borat." your money, your life, your show, to stay ahead of the game. "cashin' in" starts right now. >> immoral. that's what sarah pal suspect calling all of the massive spending that's coming out of washington. is she right on the money or dead wrong? terry: i'm terry keenan and welcome to "cashin' in." our "cashin' in" crew this week, moral pillars, all of them. wayne, jonathan, and jonas, and we're also joined by tracy and john. ok, governor sarah palin saying this week, "president obama is growing government outrageously, and it's immoral." john, is she right or wrong? >> she's dead on. look, this is immoral, this is pathetic, this is reckless. these guys have proposed more spending in six months than this country has done in the last 220 years, and they're doing it not for the altruistic belief they think that's what's right for this country. if that's right, i have no

problem with that. they're doing it because they know they have to get it passed. they're not even reading these bills. they're leveraging our future, and they're doing it because they want to get re-elected to midterms. that is pathetic. terry: jonas, is that right? when rahm emanuel said don't get a good crisis go to waste? >> oh, they're wasting it. it's not morality. everyone has a different take on morality. it's bad economics to run a deficit, particularly in good times when you don't need to be. we'll see if obama does that. right now he has the excuse of a resgs. . but morality -- i mean, there's more people probably who would think letting people get kicked out of their houses or unemployment going to 20% would be immoral as well, so it depends where you stand on this. morality, alaska has the highest per capita deficit in the country, i'm pretty sure, and that's a state where she could have done something about that. so is that immoral? i don't think it's immoral. it's bad economics. but just keep it it economics and separate morality from economics. >> jonas is right. i think it's more irresponsible than immoral, because again,

morality has many devils definitions, but it is irresponsible. we are spending money, we're printing money, we're not thinking about it, we're just doing it. we're just getting it out there fast and furious. and to john's point, it's all to keep the momentum going and keep passing things. terry: jonathan? >> well, morality, there is objective morality, terry. it does exist. there are things that are right and wrong. and in america, you're born free. i hope that's something that we can all agree on. you have a right to your own life. you're not born with this duty, this obligation to serve the public good. and this debt, this massive debt, basically it's enslaving our future generation. there's no right to enslave, and it's just -- to put this debt on their shoulders and tell them, well, it's for your own good, is criminal. terry: i have a debt clock on my apple dashboard t. reads $11.4 thrillion as of this morning. is that immoral to put that on our children's backs? >> well, i think it's all -- the fact that you use the word

moral in politics, it's just -- politics is amoral to start with. i mean, it's objective. i agree with what jonas is saying. there's no morality here. it just s. the fact of the matter, people are spending more money than they should be, it's not the correct way to run the government t. has nothing to do with morality. and of all the people talking about morality, sarah palin is not one that should be doing it it. you know, morality is -- jonathan says yes, it's part of the constitution, it's part of the declaration of independence, it's not part of the execution of the government on a day-to-day basis. these guys are just out of control. terry: speaking of out of control, john, we asked the white house, they had no comment on sarah palin's comment, calling this immoral, but if you think it's immoral, get ready for son of stimulus i, because we're probably going to get another huge stimulus package here. >> yeah, sleuthly. my problem is not the fiscal irresponsibility. look the bush administration had that, the clinton administration had that. every administration has had that that we've been alive to witness.

the problem i have is why they are spending it, why they are spending it so quick. the reason they're doing is very self-serving to get re-elected in the mid-terms. that's the problem. not the ideology of democrats. they don't love nor hate america any more than conservatives do. what i'm talking about is the self-serving interests of these politician toss pass it by midterm. >> that's the key point, i think. they're doing it for the wrong reasons. they're rushing things along for the wrong reasons, and it's really all about getting themselves back into congress, which god, i really hope people wake up and vote them the hell out. terry: jonathan, we do see this undercurrent in the country where all of this spending is not popular. we've seen the president's poll numbers come down pretty precipitously. so is this why these politicians are spending so much, that they think it's popular? >> well, i mean, terry, if you listen to washington these days, and there is a belief prop gate by people on both sides of the aisle that capitalism is destructive, and

we need smart politician toss spend and invest money the right way. not only is that bad for the economy, it won't create any long-term wealth, but it is amoral, because it basically says to future generations, you don't have a right to your own life. you're born with this obligation to serve. that's not american at all. you have a right to your own life. you're not they're serve the public good. >> well, jonathan, this is why the morality can go both ways. let's say you have a child that you know in advance of birth has problems. it's ok to burden future generations with the cost of government, cost of taking care that have child, which is very expensive. some would say that's moral to have the child, some would say you're burdening taxpayers with your cost. everybody is on a different side here and totally different agreement with this. >> i don't want to pay for your ill legitimate children, jonas, i don't care what they look like or what they turn out like. it's not my responsibility. >> ok! we're not talking about that. we don't to want mix things up. terry: you know what? wayne, what comes with all this debt is also higher taxes and a

burden on, at least right now, on the wealthiest americans, at least that's where we're headed. is that moral? >> it's not a question. everybody wants to label it right, wrong, emotional, ill moral. it's not. by the way, when jonathan talks about serving, one of the greatest things that we can have in this country is people who are willing, willing to sacrifice and serve their country in the government and do some good. i think that's a great calling, and it's missing now. we got people who are selfish, only interested in rewarding themselves, interested in getting re-elected, not interested in serving their country. and that's what we need. terry: not much public service out there. still ahead -- they're pushing americans to buy fuel-efficient cars. you've heard all about that. but wait till you see what the car zars have parked in their driveways. and a rogue nation accused of attacking our government and

america's news headquarters. stay with fox. >> cursing is not something that most comedians do. >> did you it. >> that's true. but it was an accident, and i haven't done it since, and i would never do it again. >> what the [beep] are you doing? [beep]! terry: well, do as i say, not as i do. something we tell our kids, and something our car czars know a thing or two about.

while they're pushing new fuel-efficient green cars, they're being driven carneds in lincoln town cars, a gas guzzler. is this a case of hypocrisy? joining us for this one is democratic strategist, julia. let's start, though, with tracy. you know, steve ratner, the chief car czar, is an extremely wealthy man. he's worth hundreds of millions of dollars. doesn't he have the right to be driving around in whatever he wants? >> if he's got his money, he should pick up a hybrid. this is as simple as wearing gap jeans at the gap f. you're going to promote something, you wear it and go out there with posters on your forehead screaming, i'm green, i'm in a hybrid. steve ratner has a lexus, an audi, and a mercedes. the the wunderkind drives a hound a. nobody's even driving these american hybrids that we're supposed to be out there pimping around. this is total hypocrisy, and quite frankly, it just goes to show thaw the auto task force is just one big joke. terry: jewel yarks the hypocrisy charge is what rings true with a lot of americans. shouldn't they be driving a

prius or a ford energy-efficient car? >> well, you know, when you look at the guy who's driving the toyota, and the wunderkind, he has been driving that for 11 years, and over the last few years, the japanese automakers have actually surpassed g.m., so maybe he's actually learning something, and he is doing what he preacheds, that is what our major -- our major car retailers have gone under. you know, the americans now own them. the americans -- the american government is now running them. and some of these people are on government salaries, so they're supposed to sell their cars and suddenly purchase brand-new cars, and i think that they are practicing what they preach in that they are doing what they can afford and maybe at some point they'll be -- they'll purchase one of those cars new. >> first of all, one of them does drive a car that's fuel

efficient because it's an old honda, which is better than upgrading to a battery-powered hybrid. but at the end of the day, do we want people who think american cars are better? because that would be a bad starting point to fixing the auto destroy. let's be honse, these cars are better that they drive. that's why those companies are successful. in every class, the foreign car is more environmentally sound than equivalent lax are you american car. that lucksis gets better mileage than a cadillac. >> why are we saving the american auto? why do we have a u.s. auto tax force saving an auto industry in the u.s. if you're saying the foreign cars are better? terry: wayne, do you have a problem with these car zars driving foreign cars and gas guzzlers? >> i think it's ridiculous. i don't care what they drive. they can drive mack trucks for i'm i care, doesn't matter. i mean, this is so insane. you talk about hypocrisy in washington like it was a surprise. i mean, don't you expect?

these are all crooks. these are guys who are going to do whatever they want to do t. doesn't matter. they're not with it. they could care less. they don't represent the united states. they don't represent themselves. them don't represent us. we vote them in there, and they do whatever the hell they want to. i mean, please. we shouldn't be talking about stuff like this. terry: not the car zars in particular. jonathan? i agree with your buddy wayne here? >> well, what i hate about the whole czarly can tour, terry, is that it encourages all this snooping, right? oh, what's he driving? how much carbon is he emitting? is he watering his lawn? i mean, it's exactly, of course, what happened with the first batch of czars. swayne right. drive whatever the hell you want. some people like a convertible. some people want a jeep. i have a honda. the thing goes and goes and goes. it will not die. i'd love to get a new car, but the thing keeps going. people should drive whatever they want and pay for it and get one of the czar toss impose their world on the refs us. terry: get rid of the czars and forget the cars.

time a i got a chevy i've truck that gets four miles to the gallon, but look, i'm not a car czar. the fact they can afford a car is just flat wrong. all of congress is hypocritical, like wayne says. barney frank has never run a business on a balance sheet. that is what is wrong with the entire corroboration. this is no exception. >> it's p.r., though. you want to be a car czar, man, act like it. get behind the wheel of an american hybrid. i'm sorry. you want to revive the american -- well, then there's that, too. terry: i hate to tim, some of these czars aren't even driving their own cars, somebody's doing it for them. coming up next -- maybe the one czar that we do need is the one that we don't have, a czar for cybersecurity.

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i'm sorry. i can't hear you very well. announcer: does someone you know have trouble hearing on the phone? dad. dad, let me help you with that, okay? announcer: now, a free phone service shows captions of everything a caller says. i'd like to make an appointment to see the doctor.

announcer: to learn more about captioned telephone, call 1-800-552-7724 or go to our website. i'll see you at 3:00! announcer: captioned telephone - enjoy the phone again! if you could help prevent a fracture, wouldn't you? for your free kit, call now. terry: a stealth attack at the heart of our government and our economy. north korea is the prime suspect to be behind a massive cyberstrike. the white house, pentagon, and the new york stock exchange just a few of the targets. now wayne is warning that it's time to spend more on cybersecurity. ok, wayne, jonathan's not going like this, but you say that we need to focus some of our federal spending in this area. >> yes, i think we have to. obviously there are, you know,

hiccups in the system. as a matter of fact, just before we went on the air, i talked to a spokesman from secure works who is responsible to a great extent for screening a lot of this. and one of the things they cannot do -- while they can get rid of a lot of the stuff that comes through, the jamming of a system is one of the more difficult things that they have to deal with. and when it's jammed, even though they may know the source, it's not a question of that, it's how do they get rid of that. it takes a period of time to do that and to deal with that, and that's the biggest problem that they have. terry: julia, this was a big concern after 9/11. we've only become more dependent on the internet. isn't it time to beef up our cybersecurity? >> well, they've really done a lot. congress in the patriotic act provided a lot more money for eight task forces around the country. i know that the n.s.a. and the f.b.i. are actually actively working on these and have been for years. so i really think that, you know, should more money be needed when that time comes,

yes. but right now, knowing i don't to want short change the great work being done in the government to specifically on this issue. terry: so jonathan, something good in the patriotic act, julia says. >> terry, i have to say, you misrepresent. of course the government should be protecting our intellectual assets. the president talks at great lengths, oh, we don't make anything in this country. we do make a lot, and they're assets that are housed understand in warehouses, but on hard drives. and people's computers are property. so absolutely the government should be very much in the business of protecting our property. and if they're infiltrating the nyse, the government should be getting into that and find out who's doing it and kicking some major ass. terry: yeah, that gets your attention, jonathan. >> absolutely. >> we don't to want take away from the great things going on in the government? what the heck are they doing properly? working on cybersecurity should be one of the best things they could have done. bin laden is not jumping through your computer. it's not anything like that. but as jonathan said, stealing

our information could be more detrimental in the end, and the fact that we're pretty much blowing it off, i think, just boggles my mind. terry: i don't know if we're totally blowing it off. we've been very secure, and the government's done a lot under the bush administration, i assume continues to do it now in terms of protecting asset transfers and all these other things on computers that help the terrorists. >> yeah, this attack by north korea, i think north korea was apparently a very low-level attack. we've fended off several attacks, but one of the principal roles of the government is security for the nation. and great works to the government -- you've got to be kidding me. but this -- i'm sorry. i got voices in my head, it's running with the bulls next week, got me worried about things. the government's role is security. what the government has to do, though, is keep the security strong, because that is very important to our economy. terry: jonas? >> north korea is a country criticism it's a criminal enterprise. it's not like a regular country. we need to shift money, though, from, like, submarines into this sort of stuff, not add

more money to the homeland defense. terry: so take it from other? palm a take it from other old-fashioned things. terry: i'm more worried about their nukes than psycher attacks. for now, we have a lot more ahead. thousands of insane people getting their adrenaline pumping by running with the bulls in spain. and one of our gang is crapes i enough to join in. hey, guys, this is my teenage friend rachael. she's cool. hey!

[fiddling with radio] rachael: hey, could you watch the road? [mocking] "hey, could you watch the road?" ok. all right. well, if we die in a car crash, i want to donate my eyes to my neighbor gary. he has a boat, and he sails all around the world. i would love to see that. i don't know if he actually needs eyes, but who would turn down a free pair of eyes, right? ha ha. who's that rich? ted in skyscrapers alone... but on the ground

by those who could see what needed to be done. volunteers who in service stepped forward... onto the dust of the moon, a levee in the heartland, the marble steps of a dream. you may ask yourself: "where is my moon, my levee, my dream?" well, it's here... with you. step forward. help renew america at usaservice.org terry: time for "what do i need to know" for next week. tracy, what do we need to know? >> hollywood's bucking the recession trend. people are still going to the movies. cheap thrills, even though ticket prices are on the rise, people are paying for them. "bruno" comes out this weekend. sacha baron cohen in t. he's also naked on the cover of "g.q.." my 7-year-old daughter happened to find that at the bookstore the other day, so keep kids at home, go to the movies. terry: not for little kids. john, what do we need to know? >> this could the last show i ever do.

i'm running with the bulls in pamplona monday morning. a guy died friday. i think i might need a little help. pfizer has xanex, some nikes and common sense. but i'm running with them on monday morning. i don't know how that connects. i don't care. i just want to be alive monday afternoon. terry: our on an airplane to spain. you really are -- jonathan, he really is running with the bulls. what do you think? >> well, i wouldn't take the xanex before you run. drink a mountain de w or something. you need a little energy. but jonathan's in great shape, i know he'll be fine. terry: good advice. >> well, i'm looking a little bit on the other side of the world, terry. i mean, i was shocked to find out there's actually pornography available on the internet. i know, it's amazing. apparently it's very popular in japan, because n.t.t. docomo is reporting that the demand in japan is literally strange their servers.

and d.c.m. is moving to its own mine these days. it's got a strong bid, and i own it in my file. terry: you've liked that for a while. jonas, what do you think? >> i think that's crazy. that's what i think. because michael jackson blocks our servers, and in japan, it's the pornography. terry: wayne, what do we need to know? >> well, you need to know that congress is debating this health bill, regardless behalf they do, it's going to be a disaster. but health stocks are good, and i think an e.t.f. is a good way to play it, p.t.h. is the one i like. terry: ok. >> by the way, that siren in the background i hope doesn't mean anything as far as j.b.l. is concerned. i hope that's not the ambulance coming. >> that's the grim reaper. terry: jonas? >> interest rates are not going to go up until the economy recovers, which is a ways off. so i say it is great for mortgage people, refinance in the next two weeks. i think under 5% on the 30-year, which is great. and as an investor, you go with

b.n.d., vanguard index. you're ok for a while. this is going to be a while before rates go off. terry: ok, that's going to do a supreme showdown on capitol hill that's because sonia sotomayor gets a grilling from the senate today. her personal biases, will they trump the law? city tuned for that did former vice president dick cheney order congress out of the loop on a covert cia counter terrorism program? we will take a closer look at that and how the attorney general could now be involved. speaking of attorneys, there is one there. >> dramatic struggle caught on police dash cam. the officer tries to control the suspect and suspect dies. did he die from a different health cause? who is responsible? we'll report