e and the rest of our parents and children. jon: david goldman, we wish you well. jane: that's it for us. "live desk" is up next. [captioning made possible by fox news channel] martha: we are watching all the stories developing on the live desk. i'm martha mccallum. trace: i'm trace gallagher. this is where the news begins. there is stunning breaking news concerning these people. bird and melanie billings, the florida couple shot to death in a home invasion inside their home. they are the parents as you know of 17 kids. 13 of them adopted, many with special needs. and now we are finding brand-new information about how precise this crime was supposed to be. the surveillance video now coming out. telling us that this thing was planned. for 30 days, says the sheriff, and rehearsed again and again. the suspects showing up with masks, sometimes wearing ninja

costumes. they were actually on the property for 10 minutes. inside this nine-bedroom house for four minutes. they killed the couple, they took the safe, they fled. now there is a new suspect. she is 47-year-old pamela wiggins. she has been charged with murder, accessory to murder after the fact. 30 years in prison is what she is facing. found on her boat in alabama and key evidence found with her. and there is word of another suspect. remember the surveillance video we showed you? apparently that last suspect was supposed to flip off those surveillance cameras. that never happened. they are looking for that suspect. the sheriff of escambia county spoke moments ago. listen. >> we have some people of interest that we are continuing to look at. i can tell you that those are now numerous people. but you need to also put that in perspective. we have probably interviewed between 20 and 30 people that

were people of interest that you never were made aware of. why? because after an initial interview with these people, we found that they did not have any information that would be of any substance in this case, so therefore they went away. trace: brian wilson has been following the case from start to finish. we know they have new evidence. what else do we know? >> let's talk about the person of interest yesterday who is now behind bars as an accessory after the fact to murder. her name is pamela long wiggins. she had many aliases. this is the name we are now going with. this is the name under which she will be charged. she is a rental agent of sorts, known in the community. she has a couple of businesses, an antique mall, etc. she was found in nearby orange beach, alabama, just across the florida line, not far from pensacola. she was aboard a boat. that is where we find the next stunning development in this case. the sheriff deputies have

removed from that sam arena the safe. we have pictures of that. that was captured by one of the local affiliates down here, the safe being removed from that area. the safe, we are told, is being processed. they will not say what is in the safe, but they do now believe this is the safe from the home of bird and melanie billings. this is what apparently was -- causes them to say the motive was robbery because the safe was missing. now they have recovered the safe along with some of the key weapons, including, they believe, the murder weapon. one other piece of information just crossing our desk here, we have now been told that the bureau of alcohol, tobacco, and firearms is assisting the escambia county sheriff's office. don't look into this any more than the fact that they are helping them with intelligence and the processing of those weapons and perhaps some ballistics expertise. now the batf are involved in helping the escambia sheriff's office conduct this investigation. trace? trace: brian, what about the search for this missing

suspect, this mystery suspect, if you will, that was supposed to turn off the surveillance cameras? >> yeah, let me give you the background on that. the sheriff says as they were sort of investigating the case, it became clear to them that the people, the suspects were sort of surprised that the security camera was still on when they conducted this raid on the house. and so they now believe that there is probably another person involved out there who was supposed to have disabled that or remotely turned it off. and they have some people of interest. they know who they are. they are not ready to go forward with that information, but they do believe that there is another shoe to drop in this, and that will be whoever was supposed to have turned off that security camera but apparently failed to do so. another development in the days ahead in this particular case. but that said, the sheriff's office believes the murder part of this case, the people who went into the house and allegedly pulled the trigger, they believe they have those suspects in custody. eight people now in custody, including one 16-year-old whose picture we do not reveal. but this case goes on and on.

the sheriff says, trace, that the complexity of his case is staggering, and there was much more that we have not been told that will be revealed in the days ahead and especially as this case goes to trial that will apparently be quite eye opening, even jaw dropping. trace: we know you will have it first. brian wilson in pensacola, florida, thank you. martha: check out the three boxes. they will tell you some of the stories we have coming into the newsroom now that we are watching for you. in the top box, the white house said to be targeting critics of the economic stimulus package and the democratic-led health care plan. so who are they going after? exactly how are they throwing their weight around? sean hannity is going to talk to me about that and a few other things including why he doesn't like bike riding. have you heard that one? in the middle box, what were you doing when you were 17 years old? i don't know, but it probably wasn't this, right? zack sunderland, 17 years old, about to finish this hour his

trip around the world on his sailboat. he is returning to southern california at this hour. people gathered on the dock in marine a del ray. this is a live shot of him coming in. he is not alone anymore. he is surrounded by all these folks. he is a home-schooled kid. his parents say they don't expect him to go to college. he is his own kind of person. he will probably not go that route. he is really smart because he has gotten himself all the way around the world. he is a good sailor. he microwaved a birthday cake for himself on his birthday. he had from a box mashed potatoes on thanksgiving. but he's getting back. what a beautiful shot that is. you wonder what goes through your mind when you have been on your own basically for 13 months and you're about to be greeted by your family and friends. really exciting. we're going to show that to you as soon as he lands. in the bottom box, there are some pretty big developments in the gitmo story. the guantanamo bay trial is underway for five of the men accused of planning the september 11 attacks. new developments coming out of gitmo as we mentioned.

and four other people who are the -- the defendants are also going to be on trial there as well. some of the detainees are refusing to show up at court unless they are allowed to make a statement. there has been a big back and forth about whether or not they will be allowed to speak in these proceedings. among those five is khalid sheikh muhammad. he is the confessed mastermind of the world trade center attacks. catherine herridge is streaming live from guantanamo bay, cuba, where the trial is underway. court is in recess now. where do things stand? >> well, just to give you some perspective, right now, martha, i am standing about 25 yards from that courthouse, and this hearing is really a procedural hearing, it's in a brief recess. throughout the morning, we have been hearing about one of the 9/11 conspirators. it's alleged that bin al-shib was in germany where the

hijackers planned the attacks. the defense attorney for him told the court this morning that he is so crazy now that he thinks he is an orange. he thinks he is a piece of fruit and that he also believes the guards at guantanamo bay every night vibrate his bed so he can't sleep. and he also thinks that they are pumping noxious odors in his cell in an effort to kill him. now, the government said that they are not completely buying this, but for the time being, that is the position of the defense, that one of the 9/11 conspirators is so ill that he now thinks that he is an orange, martha. martha: that is so bizarre, catherine. you know, you can only wonder whether this is fabricated or whether this is where he is really at right now, but boy, what a story. what an incredible bit of detail into what's going on down there. we hear that the c.i.a.'s detention program came up in court. what happened with that, catherine? >> well, that was the other big headline, martha.

the defense attorney for ramsey bin al-shib was talking about the issue of sleep deprivation. she says he has a lot of trouble sleeping still. then she started to talk about sleep deprivation before september, 2006. it was at that point in the courtroom that the audio to where the journalist was sitting was cut off. that means the military sensor has stepped in and cut off what we can hear in that courtroom. now, september, 2006, is important because before that date, bin al-shib and the other members of the 9/11 conspiracy were being held by the c.i.a. and part of the enhanced interrogation program was sleep deprivation. what we sauteed in essence is what we can expect when the trials get fully underway, probably in the fall. almost a trial within a trial. you have the military commission trial. if they stay within the military commission. then you will have a trial about the c.i.a. detention program. today we heard once again about the issue of sleep deprivation.

martha: very interesting. obviously those things will be so linked when it comes to how the lawyers can proceed in this case based on how some of these interrogations were done. catherine herridge, you have a front seat for some fascinating proceedings, the outcome of which everyone here in this country is going to be very, very interested in. catherine, thank you. ok. have you seen the pictures from this story? there was a massive explosion on a major highway in this country. a tanker truck exploded. it took down with it part of the overpass. what happened next was caught on cell phone video. wait until i show it to you. now look at this. almost just as disturbing, some might say. it's a flow chart, folks. it's simple, really. this is how health care will work, according to the republicans who are taking a look at the system. it's going to cost all those boxes and how they move and how things flow through each other, about $1.3 trillion to make that happen. it's about a thousand pages long, this bill. how much is that per page? i wondered. we asked the brain room. we'll tell you in our must-see

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(voice 2) how bad is it? (voice 1) traffic's off the chart... (voice 2) they're pinging more targets... (voice 3) isolate... prevent damage... (voice 2) got 'em. (voice 3) great exercise guys. let's run it again. martha: on this beautiful july summer day, i'm happy to show you pictures of an incredible moment. 17-year-old zack sunderland is wrapping up his sailing trip around the world. he went by himself. he is the youngest person to finish. the first one to come in under the age of 18. we're live at the marine a del ray -- marina del ray dock

where he is set to come in. he has a lot of boats surrounding him as he gets close to home. in the middle box, investigators have covered two of the three black boxes from the russian-made jetliner that crashed yesterday in iran. we'll bring you the latest on that story. talk about new pictures. nasa releasing enhanced photos now for the very first time of the apollo 11 moon mission which blasted off, if you can believe it, 40 years ago today. incredible new pictures that we're getting. some of the pictures that we saw the last time around were actually a camera shot of a camera shot that was taken from the control rooms in nasa. we're getting some of the clearest pictures we have ever seen. also some brand-new audio tape of the astronauts talking to each other. we'll get to some of that in just a few moments from now. trace, up to you. trace: the democrats on capitol hill pushing their health care reform plans forward, but fiscal conservatives on both sides of the aisle say the

bill's $1.3 trillion price tag is simply too much. and the house's plan to pay for it is being called a job killer. i want to show you this right here. this is house minority leader john boehner. he released this flow chart. it's kind of a mess but that's the way it's supposed to be. his point is there are so many levels of bureaucracy, that's how problematic this health care bill is. what you should know about this is there are 88 different plans, agencies, committees, and advisory panels including things like the cultural and linguistics competence training. then you go on to language demonstration program. up here you have got the public health work force corps. we don't know what that is. on top of this, there are some 47 arrows that point to different things. the big arrow over here is from you, the consumer, that goes up here to the i.r.s., which brings us to our next guest. he is senator john barassa fromwomen. the question here is we know

the tax burden is going to be immense on small businesses. we're talking about the super wealthy they are calling them now. those who make more than $380,000 a year. those also include a lot of small businesses that create a lot of jobs, senator. >> well, you showed the chart. the chart shows just how complicated it is. if you think the health care you have right now is a complicated system, it's nothing compared to this huge democrat bill they are looking at right now which to me costs too much, it covers too few people and causes too many people to lose the insurance that they have now. we know that small businesses are the businesses all across the country that create the jobs and help people give to work, where we are recovering economically. but i have to tell you this is not the way to do it. this is going to hurt jobs. this is going to raise taxes on small businesses. it's going to cost people their jobs. it's going to make people go off insurance. i think this is the wrong approach. we do need health care reform. we need to bring down the cost of medical care but this isn't

the way to do it. trace: not only, senator, is it going to raise small businesses' taxes, but if they do not support and pay for health care for their employees, they will pay a surcharge. up to 8% of payroll. that's going to cripple some small businesses. >> it's going to make some small businesses close down. it's going to make other people who are thinking that they want to start a small business and hire some people to help them, they are going to go and do something different than that. they are not going to start the business. i think it's a real job killer for america. this really is to me the wrong approach. there are two doctors in the senate. practicing doctors. tom coburn and me. we are going to start a program, we started a program called senate doctors to answer emails and questions and calls from people all around the country. we'll be on every tuesday and thursday on youtube and on the internet at 4:00 in the afternoon eastern time. we're now on our third show today. thousands of people are writing and watching. we're very encouraged by the response we're getting from around the country by people asking questions just like you

ask, trace. what impact is some very huge government takeover of medicine going to have on small businesses and the impact is going to be awful. trace: senator john barrasso, 88 different plans, committees, and advisory panels. thank you, sir. martha? >> you're welcome. thank you. martha: thank you. here is the fox news brain room's must-see fact of the day. there it is. the health care bill moving through the house. totals a tropping 1,018 pages. if you break that down by the bill's $1.3 trillion price tag, you're looking at $1.26 billion per page. that sounds pretty good, huh? $1.2 billion per page. all right. that is your must-see fact of the day. i mentioned this to you just a little while ago. a two-mile stretch of i-75 was shut down near detroit following this unbelievable fiery tanker crash. check out the cell phone video

that somebody shot when they saw this scene. the rig hauling 13,000 gallons of fuel, exploded into flames after a car reportedly sideswiped it. so this is what happened from a near sideswiping of this tractor-trailer. the cheat was so intense that the overpass above partially basically melted and collapsed. the tanker's driver, two other people were injured. they are going to be ok. that's the latest word we're hearing. an investigation into this crash is underway. wow. well, the white house reportedly getting tough on the stimulus package. hitting republicans who are saying that the billions of dollars being spent is not working. what one report called a veiled threat even. we're going to talk about that with our own sean hannity, see what he thinks about all this. that's coming up. he will be joining us just moments from now. plus you can get all the day's stories 24/7 if you log onto foxnews.com which i do many times throughout the day. check out our live shots page. this is such a cool addition to the website.

it shows fox news channel reporters, producers, and camera crews as they file their breaking news. you get to see it just like we do here in the newsroom. as these reports come in and they update their blogs on this page, it's a really neat new addition to foxnews.com. i urge you to check it out during this commercial break. if you can't catch them on air, if you want to know more about the story, just go there.

martha: his critics call them part of a presidential power grab. president obama says they are crucial to his administration. a roster of so-called czars. nearly three dozen of them tapped to watch over key aspects of white house policy. but how much power do these unelected officials actually have in the white house, and could they spark a power struggle with the cabinet

members who feel like they are stepping into their domain? wendell goler is covering this really important story for us live from washington. hi, wendell. >> hi, martha. former health secretary mike leavitt says there are already power squabbles inside the obama administration about who is in charge of health care reform. now, leavitt feels too many czars are like too many cooks in president obama's kitchen, although he admits former president bush's aides czar and his food safety czar sometimes spoiled leavitt's own soup. >> both of them did. these are different than the so-called czars inside the white house. they typically did not work in the white house. >> in fact, most of president obama's czars don't work inside the white house either. most of them report to cabinet secretaries, not to the president. but a czar's power depends a great deal on his or her personal relationship with the president. sometimes it's easy for them to walk into the oval office and bypass the cabinet secretaries

they actually report to. the best historical example of that is henry kissinger when he was president nixon's national security advisor, he often bypassed the secretaries of state and defense. president bush and vice president cheney were quite candid in their desire to rebuild the power the white house lost in nixon's fall. experts say the use of czars may be the democratses' way of doing the same thing. >> you certainly saw clinton build on that quite significantly and now obama build on it even more. there might be a certain democratic sympathy toward creating positions that have this kind of authority either for its symbolic value or for a belief that the system itself can solve the problem. >> during the campaign, president obama criticized president bush for trying to bring too much power inside the white house, but that was usually in the context of excluding congress from national security and civil liberty concerns. martha? martha: wendell, thank you very much. trace?

trace: as you know, there is plenty of opposition to stimulus pending and health care reform becoming a bitter pill for some to swallow, but president bush doesn't want to hear it. now the white house is pushing back. but nobody pushes back against the white house better than our next guest. sean hannity here, three minutes. the country at red l. from the northeast, try our new maine lobster and crab bake, with garlic-roasted tender maine lobster, jumbo shrimp, scallops, and a full half-pound of snow crab legs. or from the south, try our new orleans... wood-grilled shrimp jambalaya, simmered with creole seasonings. taste these regional dishes for a limited time. at red lobster.

trace: questioning stage is now finished. the 19 senators in the senate judiciary committee have finished their questions of supreme court nominee sonia sotomayor. in the middle box, former treasury secretary henry paulson testified today that he pressured bank of america last year to go through with its plans to buy merrill lynch, but that he did not tell the bank's chief to hide potential losses from shareholders. and in the bottom box, the president's chief of staff firing back at critics of the economic stimulus package and the health care bill. martha has a lot more on it.

martha: indeed we do. guess who is on the phone. could it be sean hannity. hello, sean, are you there? >> the two, "the live desk." am i live? martha: you sound like that famous voice i hear on the radio all the time on my way home. how are you doing, sean? >> i'm good, martha. i know you were listening yesterday to the guy on the bicycle. martha: sean was picking on bike riders yesterday. bicyclers are a menace. everybody should be working 16 hours a day like i am. what are you talking about? >> this guy was complaining. he wants national health care. he wants to tax other people to pay for it. he says his business isn't doing well. i said what are you doing right now? he was riding his bicycle. if my business was collapsing, my point was i wouldn't be out on a beautiful july summer day riding my bike. i would be out drumming up business and working. martha: i know. you work harder than most of us. i like to go for a nice bike

ride. we have tour de france video playing for you now, sean. that's the guy. he is so mad about health care, he can't stop riding. no, it's lance armstrong. no, it's not. >> i don't think it's lance. it's somebody going for a big topple there. martha: the reason we brought you here was moth to talk about bike riding. i'm glad we did. i will put up this quote. john kyl and the folks in arizona are getting some heat apparently according to a politico story that suggest that rahm emanuel and others most likely according to the story are putting the heat on folks from arizona because they are not happy about the stimulus package. senator kyl went so far as to say if it's not working, if the stimulus package isn't working, if it's not generating jobs, why don't we forget the rest of it? pay out what hasn't been paid out. the wrath came down from the governor of arizona. she got a letter from lahood, the transportation secretary. in the letter, it says to her if you prefer to forfeit the money that we're making

available to your stite as senator kyl suggests, please let me know. >> first of all, kyl is right. all he is doing is stating the obvious that joe biden said that they misread the economy. everybody guessed wrong. there is a great "wall street journal" article today by karl rove. karl rove rightly points out that on lauren summers saying the impact would be felt immediately and every other promise they made about the impact of the stimulus, it's all now been proven wrong. the only thing we have to show for this, martha, is unprecedented deficits, unprecedented debt, generational theft as john mccain calls it, and they are not stopping here. i mean, cap and tax is a tax that will impact real families to the tune according to the heritage foundation of about $2,000 a year. martha: we're showing a lot of pictures of rockingham emanuel right now. >> i call him ram rambo dead fish emanuel.

he once sent a dead fish. martha: that was a long time ago. you did things a long time ago, right, sean? >> nothing i'm going to tell you about. but in all fairness, this is the chicago way. here john kyl has an honest difference of opinion based on the empirical data that is available, which is the stimulus isn't working, so the new tone that obama and dead fish bring to washington is they now want to attack the messenger, and they want to demonize him and they want to hurt him politically. martha: arizona is also saying they are having trouble getting some education money that they think should be coming their way and they have to jump through hoops to get it. i guess there is some suspicion on their part that it's all part of this same muscular push against them, i guess. sean: martha, america is at a crossroads. here is what john kyl is trying to define in this debate. does america want a cradle to the grave, a womb to the tomb nanny state with soviet-style

government-run health care, or does america believe in freedom and liberty and risk and reward and the idea that every american has the opportunity to get up in the morning and either ride that bicycle or get up, roll up their sleeves, and go to work every day? and right now what obama and rambo are offering, they are offering government-run basically everything. they want to take over the car companies. they want to run financial institutions. they want the banks. martha: they also want somebody to pay for it. that somebody is, you know, people like you and people who make a lot less money than you do. let me pull up some of these numbers. about rueful 70% to 80% of the highest, upper, upper part of the tax base is paid for by people who make over $150,000 and people who make over $385,000. which is an incredible amount of the tax burden falls on this group. you were raising the question what's fair. is it fair for this group to pay 80% of the entire tax base for the whole country, and you

look at people who make $8,000 or less. they pay like .3%. many of them pay no income tax because a lot of that falls under the poverty level. it brings a good question, sean, what's fair? >> just look at that chart that you have up on the screen there. the bottom 50% of wage earners now pay 2.6% of the federal taxes in this country. for those that say they want to redistribute the wealth. for those that say we need skin in the game, it's our patriotic duty. martha: quite a bit of skin in the game already. >> the point is at what point do you now -- i have never had this animosity. when i started out my adult life, i didn't have any money. i had $200 in the bank. hi to drop out of college three times. i never thought i would want to empower the government to take somebody else's hard-earned money and give it to me. all i wanted was my chance at the american dream. the tax foundation did an analysis, and if obama care

comes into play -- and that's on top of cap and tax. 39 states now will exceed 50% in terms of the amount of money the people work and earn that they will be paying to the government in some way, shape, matter, or form. in new york, it will be close to 60% of people's income. martha: 57%, 58%. they talk about the fact they won't go anywhere above what the wealthy paid under clinton which was 39.6%. but it's not true, is it? >> let me put it another way. let's say a family of four makes $100,000 a year combined income. that means that family of four, a minimum, they are going to see -- they are only going to see $50,000 of the $100,000 they make. i mean, this is real money for real people. martha: $100,000 and you're in the 50% tax bracket. >> look, what americans -- they are offering -- one of the things the talking points, the democrats are putting out there as well but you will have security, you will have peace of mind.

we don't really have peace of mind because it's the same government that bankrupted social security, bankrupted medicare. i don't know why some people have faith, home, and confidence that the government is going to run health care right. they can't even get the d.m.v. right. they can't even get the post office right. somehow they will take the best health care system in the world. martha, this is important. the net result is this is false hope. this is false promises they are putting out there. just like they promised with the stimulus that unemployment wouldn't go above 8%. they are lying to the american people. they cannot sustain this. this is all a huge power grab that will destroy capitalism as we know it. martha: sean hannity once again not going out for a bike ride on this afternoon. he has a lot of very serious things to discuss on the radio. i look forward to hearing that later today. thanks for calling in. good having you. trace: there is also breaking news coming in from san diego. we're hearing that apparently the f.b.i. is now on the case. someone has died on board a

carnival cruise ship. harris faulkner is following this up near the big board. harris, what's the latest? >> we got word that somebody had died and that it was a murder on board the elation which just pulled into san diego. it was on a five-night cruise to that area. they have now made an arrest in the last short while. the f.b.i., the u.s. coast guard have boarded this ship. they are fully cooperating. they haven't let anybody off the ship today. they have this guy arrested on board the ship as they continue their investigation, an f.b.i. investigation. it appears that this, according to carnival cruise lines, was a domestic dispute that happened inside the cabin between a man and a woman on the last night of their cruise. when the whole thing was said and done, she turned up dead, and there you have the investigation start. so carnival's elation has pulled into san diego. they are fully engaged in their investigation. we'll learn more about this,

i'm sure. we don't have any pictures yet of the couple. but imagine being on that cruise and being told you can't get off yet. we're investigating a murder. back to you. trace: harris faulkner live for us at studio j. thank you. millions around the world tuned in to watch the royal wedding between princess diana and prince charles. remember that, back in 1981? 30 years later, brand-new reports say royal wedding bells could be ringing again, for their son. and there are hints coming from the queen. the potential wedding of the new century is next. multivitamin with more. only one a day women's 50+ advantage... has gingko for memory and concentration... plus support for bone and breast health. just what i need. one a day women's.

martha: if you were among the millions, like me, who woke very early to watch the wedding of princess diana and prince charles, you may need to get your alarm clock ready again, folks. could prince william be ready to pop the question? the queen, get this, has issued a personal invitation to kate middleton, and that apparently means that it may be almost time. in england, some have been calling her waity katie because they say she has been waiting so long for this. lots of girls wanted to catch the prince's eye at st. andrews when he began college there eight years ago, but word is that when will spotted kate middleton on the runway at a college fashion show, he wanted to get to know her. at the prestigious scottish university, the prince studied

geography and the coed from an upper middle class, not royal family, learned art history. along the way, they learned quite a bit about each other, too. in fact, they shared a house with other flatmates and a typical royal courtship. these pictures from a swiss ski trip put the couple squarely in the public's eye, despite their efforts to keep things quiet. >> katherine middleton. william wales. >> after graduation, they moved to london. kate began a career in children's fashion. william threw himself into his military training. and by late 2006, speculation of a royal engagement was reaching a frenzy. wool worth's even designed a line of commemorative engagement memorabilia. in april, 2007, a shocking announcement. the couple, named the u.k.'s favorite prince charming and cinderella just a year earlier, had split. the separation didn't last long, though. by summer, there were rumors that the romance was rekindled and soon it was clear the

relationship was back on track. now word that kate has been invited to spend a long weekend at the queen's roirl balance moral home in scotland next month, and the visit could be significant. it was at balance moral where the world first got wind of lady diana spencer. in 1980, a journalist spotted prince charles and his then unknown girlfriend on the property. it was later that charles decided he would propose to diana on that trip. by early 1981, it was official. lady diana was to become princess diana. it was a fairy tale that would later unravel badly for the royal couple and the family. royal watchers want any match for william to be the right match. so is kate the princess the brits want her to be? >> william wales. >> with prince william set to finish military pilot training next spring, is there just enough time to squeeze in a

royal wedding before he take his operational post with the air force? in the past, the prince has said he will marry when he is good and ready. the world is wondering if that time is now. all right. so there you have the background. is he good and ready? joining me now is author steve dennis. he co-authored a memoir "a royal duty." good to have you here, steve. welcome back. >> thanks, martha. good to be back. martha: do you think this is real this time? and how nervous would kate middleton be when you get that invitation? the queen would like to see you for lunch at balance moral. >> i think -- at balmoral. >> i think kate middleton is more than well-groomed for this occasion. rumors have been going on since 2006-2007. she was a guest of prince charles back in 2007 there. what gives this particular credence this time -- i think this is why the whispers are turning into strong murmurings is the fact that she would be a

guest of her majesty the queen. that is seen as significant, of course, because there is perhaps the prelude to announcement. of course this is the affirmation to the royal seal of approval. so i think there are strong suggestions now turning into a real likelihood. indeed the bookmakers in england are satisfying it as a certainty. they have shortened it to a point where you would have to put on $100 just to win $50. that's how certain this year the bookmakers are that the engagement will happen sometime before december. martha: the queen apparently makes her royal calendar for the year 2010 over the course of this late august weekend. she sits down with her diarist and gets everything planned. this would be a good time for it if that's that when do. there have been many divorces as we all know in the royal family. things went terribly wrong with prince charles and princess diana. what are the expectations? is this young girl the right person for him?

can she handle what princess diana could not handle, becoming a member of this family? >> well, let's make no mistake. the pressures on kate middleton would be huge. the professional -- it has been huge as well. prince william and kate middleton i think is a lot more in common than prince charles and princess diana. i think that they had a spat means they were looking at their relationship. they had to go away and come back together. william has been more than careful. all the signs are there that kate middleton has been prepared, ready, has been groomed. prince william, we spoke to a royal butler about this, and prince william has been groomed almost for his role by the queen from his teenaged years with regular meeting was her majesty at windsor. now that kate is coming within

the presence of the queen at a royal shoot in august, i think this makes it an increasing likelihood. martha: i want to squeeze in one more question, steve. princess diana said that she wanted her sons to marry for love. in some ways, kate middleton is more of a camilla as to charles. they met young. they went through school together. they know each other. prince charles went off to the military. that's sort of when he lost track of camilla. do you think that maybe prince william maybe moth does not want to make that mistake, really marry the woman he loves and not blow it as some think his dad did the first time around? >> i certainly don't think that kate middleton is a mother figure to william. and i certainly don't think kate middleton is any kind of camilla with all due respect to camilla. they were due to spend the summer together. he now has to go for military duty in south wales, leaving

wait to go on holiday to mystique this august. the suggestion is they are spending time away this august. william is careful. this couple are clearly in love. all the pointers are that they will come together on a final weekend at the end of august, start of september, to be at balmoral. after that, i think it will get interesting. martha: it will get interesting, indeed. thank you very much. great having you here. thank you. trace: the taliban claims to have captured an american soldier. now they are threatening to kill that soldier. next their demands and the potential united states' response. . gecko vo: geico's the third-largest car insurance company in the nation. but, it's not like we're kicking back, now, havin' a cuppa tea. gecko vo: takes lots of sweat to become that big. gecko vo: 'course, geckos don't literally sweat... it's just not our thing... gecko vo: ...but i do work hard, mind you.

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trace: seven minutes until the top of the hour. the fbi on the cruise ship

elation investigating the death of a passenger. one person has so far been arrested. the solo sailor news conference. he is the first person under the age of 18 to circumnavigate the world. we will bring you sound from him when we get it turned around here in the news room. nasa and astronauts are checking endeavour heat shields. they are checking them for damage from left off. that could be crucial. when the information comes in, we will pass along. new information out of the defense department about a missing american soldiers in afghanistan. a local taliban commander claims to be holding the soldier hostage and they're threatening to kill the soldier unless their demands are met. a senior official says there is no hard proof that the claim is legitimate. the military does concede that the soldier went missing from his base weeks ago. with us now from washington is a senior fellow and foreign and

national security expert with the brookings institution. michael, they are saying they want the united states to stop airstrikes into specific regions or provinces of afghanistan. why only two? >> that is a great question. you would think they might want it nationwide. we know the taliban is a term we use here to include a lot of different groups with a lot of different goals. in eastern afghanistan in a particular, it really is a concoction, a huge mix, a motley assortment of different groups operating under that banner. a lot of the fights have more to do with local control them with national ideology. the taliban to the south of afghanistan has more intention of overthrowing the government. in the east, it really rick -- it really is more of a fight province by province. trace: we look at the chessboard and the bottom line is when you talk about the

man's, the taliban are terrorists. we do not negotiate with terrorists. this is a non-starter. >> we do not negotiate formally with terrorists. we could call off any offenses in this part of the country. there are things you can try to do quietly. you can reiterate that we have long-term goals of reconciling with a lot of the opposition. if they see the light and come around, we will be more inclined to reconcile with someone who treated a prisoner well as opposed to someone who killed a prisoner. you can make those points. in the end, you do not negotiate and you cannot call off the offenses. trace: are the overall offense is going as planned or is it too soon? we do not have a day to day barometer. >> general mcchrystal said yesterday it is better thought of partly as an offensive. it is a redeployment. it is the beginning of our

taking back a lot of cities and towns we have not been present in and no government force has been present in since the war began. i do not think the taliban and other resistance groups would fight very hard. it does not play to their strengths to challenge us in open battle. it is more likely they will fall back, try to set off a few ied's, and tried to ambush us later. i'm afraid there is a long way to go. trace: michael, thank you. martha: the federal government expanding in unprecedented ways over recent months and there has been a lot of debate. the fact is that bigger government does need more money to keep running, if that is the route we go down. who will pay for it?

[captioning made possible by fox news channel] captioned by the national captioning institute --www.ncicap.org-- you are in martha: lionheart the tall. i'm martha maccallum -- martha: you are in the heart of it all. i am martha maccallum. trace: a secret plan to take out top al qaeda leaders. the idea never got off the ground and it has already been cancelled by this man, cia director leon panetta. some democrats are fuming, saying they should of been briefed. they are accusing the cia of deliberately misleading congress.

jennifer griffin is live at the pentagon. why did leon panetta decided to brief congress on this proposal if it was not operational? >> it is a good question. a u.s. intelligence official with knowledge of the program told me that it is because when he was briefed, there was an indication that the cia wanted to begin some training for it. it had not become operational. they asked permission to start training. that is when the director pulled the plug. here is what the official told me. "this was not a program that had taken shape and the focus was on those programs that are being implemented. when a cia unit brought the program to panetta's attention come it came with the recommendation to brief congress since there was thought being given to moving toward more operational status -- that is, some training." that is why the cia director decided to brief congress about it and that is when this brouhaha started. trace: just to be clear, this

proposal was halted by more than one cia director. >> it was started and halted by all four cia directors since 9/11. it goes back to george tenet. during his time, there were many proposals on the drawing board. one of many proposals. tenet killed the program. when porter goss came in, he was briefed about the various options about going after al qaeda leaders. this was one option and he said, try it if you can make it something that is logistically possible. we will go forward. it was only in the planning stages. it was beginning to die a natural death at the end of his tenure. michael reagan was briefed about it and it never got past the drawing boards stage. trace: i want to talk about interrogation techniques and those pictures. the big concern is morales. how is the specific topic

affecting more now -- morale? >> people are pretty demoralized right now with these talks of investigations and church-style committee hearings that are being considered on the hill. in fact, we asked a former public affairs director for the cia, and here is what she had to say it was like. >> when you have members of the cia spending more time delving back into paperwork and past decade to figure out what was said and what was not said instead of thinking about how to keep us safe and how to prevent the next attack, that is a waste of their time. these are four investigations, triggered by democrats, that are going on right now within the cia, which is absurd. >> many republicans and also some members of the cia saying that this is all a political witch hunt. trace: i want to get your take on breaking news about this

missing soldier in afghanistan. we talked about this a short time ago. fliers are being distributed in afghanistan. what do you know? >> we got our hands on four of these flyers from u.s. forces in afghanistan. two of them are threatening in nature. we are told there were distributed by a unit and a small scale to the group's that are believed to be holding the soldier. that is a faction of the taliban. these flyers is something to the effect of if you do not hand the soldier roper, we will hunt you. that was the most threatening of them. the others show them requesting help, saying one of your guests has been taken. please call us with information. provide some numbers to reach out to the military. again, these have been spread over the province where the soldier was taken a few weeks back. he is believed, according to u.s. officials we have spoken to, to be in afghanistan.

trace: jennifer griffin, thank you. martha: there are fireworks happening today on capitol hill. former treasury secretary hank paulson is getting grilled over his role in what has been called a shotgun wedding between bank of america and merrill lynch. paulson defending this deal today, saying repeatedly that yes, indeed, he said he did threaten to remove the head of bank of america, ken lewis, when ken lewis got a look at what was going on at merrill lynch and saw how bad the numbers were and said he did not want to do the deal with them. listen to this. >> i was -- and have told you three times and told the committee that of course i told lewis that the fed had the authority and could replace him and the board. >> you did tell him that you have the authority to remove him and the board. >> i told him that the federal reserve could replace him and

the board. martha: fox business network's liz mcdonald has more of the details. i want to remind everybody who may not to follow the story that closely, when you go back to this, everything was hitting the fan on wall street during these days. the belief was that bank of america had to acquire merrill lynch, or else the unraveling of the financial markets would be a big problem. ken lewis became privy to the numbers and how bad they were, tens of billions of dollars being lost at merrill lynch, and he wanted -- he said, i'm not sure this deal is good for him bank of america. ken lewis did not want to do it and hang paulson said, this is happening. >> the shareholders voted on this deal on december 5 and they did not tell the shareholders -- martha: he had information that they did not have.

shareholders voted on and not knowing. >> ken lewis did not tell the shareholders that the losses or deepening into the fourth quarter, eventually $15 billion in the quarter. henry paulson was on the hot seat. this is the most controversial bailout of last fall. what you're seeing is, he give the taxpayer money to ken lewis to buy maryland for without strings attached. bank of america was trying to get out it is a controversial issue going on right now. henry paulson as saying, we did not have the tarp money to bail out merrill lynch they went under. he was the shotgun behind the marriage. martha: hank paulson was picking and choosing who he wanted to save.

some deals got 100 cents on the dollar. it is a fascinating tale. everyone should go to the fox business network website and read about it. what is unraveling on capitol hill is interesting. thank you for bringing it to us attention. trace: we are on to the next phase of the confirmation hearings for sonia sotomayor. questions are just wrapping up. more witnesses testify, including the white firefighter in that reverse discrimination case. judge sotomayor ruled against him. shannon, republicans seem to be conceding that her record as a judge is pretty mainstream. that is not the end of the story, right? >> you are absolutely right. a number of her critics are saying yes, from the bench, her record as mainstream. there were a handful of cases they have issues with.

they say there's a cognizant -- there is a cognitive dissidence from what they saw on the bench and her writings, references to international law, and other issues. they say they do not match. the woman that is answering these questions seem to be saying the things we want to hear but it does not match up with what we have seen in your record. who is the real sonia sotomayor? would she please stand up? republicans are saying they do not have huge concerns from the bench. it is what we have seen you do outside of the bench. trace: she is playing defense. the confirmation seems like a foregone conclusion. any chance republicans try to block this? >> of course, from the time we knew there be an opening, there was discussion of the f-word, filibuster. here is what sessions had to say today. >> i will not support and i do not think any member of this

side will support a filibuster or any attempt to block a vote on your nomination. it is a very important vote. we need to take our time and think it through and cast it honestly. >> just to let you know, the most interested witnesses of the day have not just been seated. the firefighters out of new haven had that discrimination case they log and lost in sonia sotomayor's court. they have just been seated to testify. we will turn around that sound as quickly as possible. trace: shannon bream, thank you. we know the government is growing at a pace that history has never seen before. the congressional budget office, the nonpartisan congressional budget office, has some hard numbers showing just how big uncle sam is getting. here's the clincher. how much it will cost you.

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talking. we are waiting for frank ricci, whose name has become well known across this country. he is the firefighter who fought his case all the way to the supreme court. he argued that a test that was given where he was a firefighter in new haven conn., was not fair. he studied ford, he has dyslexia, he hired somebody to help him stand for. he passed the test but they threw out the results of the test because none of the black firefighters who took the test passed it and they were afraid they would get sued. he took his case all the way to the supreme court. this is one of the firefighters. as soon as he starts to talk, we want to hear what he has to say. his story has become so well known across this country. we will be taking you there as soon as it gets underway. trace: a couple of minutes away. president obama pushing american taxpayers into uncharted

territory, expanding government spending on programs that will last beyond the recession. with all that spending comes a humongous bill. $100 billion here, $100 billion there, $500 billion there, the consequences? a massive deficit and sky-high taxes. ring in bill kristol. he is the editor of "the weekly standard." good to see you. i want to put these on the screen. this is the crux of our debate. it's as during the past -- these are numbers from the cbo -- federal spending has averaged 20% of gdp and the cbo projects it will be 26% in 2020. the budget deficit has averaged 2% of gdp and the cbo project it to be 7%. 250% increase. here is the clincher.

it says that by 2020, balancing the budget would require a 44% annual tax increase. 44% from what it is right now. that is astronomical. >> even this year, what is striking about the health care proposal is the massive tax increase that is needed to pay for it. the cbo has another study of today. it is nonpartisan. the study of today says the democratic health care proposal will increase the rate of growth of health-care cost to the federal government, not reduce it. president obama keeps saying, we have got to reduce the growth of cost. this is a big blow. this report is a big blow to president obama's hopes to rush

a health care plan through congress. his bill does not kick in until 2013. a lot of democrats will say, wait a second. give us time to think this over. trace: why rush? why the rush? you rush through stimulus. they threw out phantom numbers at the beginning of the year ending never materialized. we are getting the same numbers for health care. do they believe they can catch america while it is sleeping? >> president obama's popularity has been pretty high and they think he has momentum. they want to stampede something through congress and tell democrats, you have to support your president. you cannot let your doubts overcome you. whatever you think of the stimulus, it was supposed to be an emergency stimulus. it made a certain amount of sense to do it fast. this plan does not come into effect for four years. how can they ask democrats in congress to suspend all of their doubts, to overcome and overlook these reports, and rush

something through in the next few weeks? i really think today with the cbo report as a big moment where the momentum will slow and perhaps reverse for president obama's health care plan. trace: you are talking but stimulus being a rush job and they have only spent 7%. we rushed it through and now trickles into the economy. the questions that people have is coming is the stimulus temporary? are these permanent budget? is this permanent money the government will hang onto forever more? >> parts of the stimulus i think were intended to expand the size of the federal government, more less permanently. when other people take office, they can cut the size of the federal government. the health care plan is harder to reverse. how do you on why the public program in place? today is an important day. we got the report today showing the democratic plan would not reduce the rate of growth of health care costs. it would increase health care

costs. it is a big blow to the democrats. trace: do we get health care? do we get health care reform by the end of this year? >> i think not. i do not think so. i think people decide their problems with the current system, it is still pretty darn good for most americans, we will not overturn something that takes up a percentage of the economy based on a couple of hearings and promises. trace: bill kristol, fox news contributor. thank you. martha: you have been hearing the debate over health care reform going into overdrive. it is a hot summer and it is getting hotter. lawmakers given a tight deadline by the white house to hammer out this deal. they wanted done quickly. the legislation runs over 1000 pages with a price tag that is mind-numbing.

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martha: take a look of the boxes. we have one eye on the sotomayor hearings. we are listening for the new haven firefighter, frank ricci, who is the firefighter whose case made it to the supreme court. he said he was judged unfairly on a promotion test. it is a racial issue. it will be interesting to hear what he has to say. in the metal box, an unbelievable tragedy that we're hearing about. an apparent domestic dispute turned deadly on the cruise ship elation. a woman is dead and the man is charged with her death and is under arrest. we will take you there live.

new unemployment numbers out. those filing new claims and continuous claims plunged to the lowest level since early january. one reason that might be happening is the extra hearing -- hiring over the course of the summer. it is a seasonal difference. that is why wall street is not too excited about the number. trace: developing news in the murders of malini and byrd billings. -- murders of melanie and byrd billings. eight people are now charged. police have uncovered what could be crucial evidence. listen. >> we have located evidence, valuable evidence. we have located the site. the site is being processed at this time. we have located several guns in various locations, one of which,

we believe, is the murder weapon. trace: with us now is a deputy with the florida sheriff's office. the safe. are we to assume the safe was on board per boat? -- her boat? >> that i cannot confirm. we have located the safe and the contents are being processed. as to whether or not it was found on that boat, i cannot confirm that. trace: what do we know about murder after the fact? can you give us an idea of what her involvement, pamela wigg ins, the real-estate agent, what is her involvement after the fact? what do we glean from this? >> she was a definite associate of the suspects. however, if i spoke to her

involvement, it could compromise the investigation. trace: what about the mystery suspect? the woman who was supposed to flip off the surveillance video equipment and apparently failed to do that -- what we know about that person, deputy? >> our investigators are working that lead. we do believe we have one more suspect that we will place in custody as soon as we can. we believe the suspect was charged with disabling the home video equipment and failed to do so for whatever reason. other than that, i cannot release any more information. trace: we have not heard about the children. what happens now to these 17 children? four are biological and 13 are adopted. what happens to the kids? do we know? >> the children have been turned over to family members. they are being well cared for. our agency has victim advocates

that the been working with the family and the children. the children are doing well. trace: deputy, thank you. >> thank you. martha: all right. the australian health minister is saying if nothing is done, 6000 people could die from h1n1. if you thought swine flu was gone and over, you were wrong.

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pain of foreclosure. help cannot come soon enough to families who lost everything. trace: now to new jersey. mike emanuel following the president campaigning for jon corzine. >> incumbent governor jon corzine is struggling in polls, trailing his republican opponent in a late service. president obama comes to the garden state to rally support for corzine. the question is what impact he will have. in the latest survey, some voters said this would have no effect on the boat. trace: mike emanuel live in new jersey. to the weather center, hot, hot, hot, and we're not just talking about jd. >> flattery will get you everywhere. hot temperatures across southern plains as well as the southwest. how hot is it? we could shatter records for july in dallas, oklahoma city.

99 in san antonio. with the humidity, it feels warmer than that. we have heat advisers posted for the southwest across california, arizona, and nevada. 109 in vegas and phoenix. you want to be inside in these areas. trace: and janice dean. an urgent warning about swine flu in australia. the health minister saying 6000 people could die there over the next few months. that is the worst-case scenario if an effective vaccine cannot be produced. more than 10,000 cases already confirmed down under. some of those people are now fighting for their lives. >> in intensive care units like this one, 361 flew parents are free to patients are fighting for their lives. -- 36 swine flu patients are fighting for their lives. two were women. two meare men and there is 19-

year-old boy appeared pregnant mothers are among the most vulnerable. the virus can trigger premature labor and miscarriages. >> nice and strong. >> this woman is having her first child. >> you have to do the right things and hope for the best. >> in the western sydney, 6 pregnant women are gravely ill. medical staff are quizzing expected mothers. they're making them wash hands and wear face masks. >> i am not scared, not worried at all. >> experts say mothers to be need to be vigilant. >> women to be alert. they should adopt normal public health measures, be scrupulous with hand washing. >> they should consider self-

quarantine. >> if i was pregnant, i think i would be interacting with crowds as little as possible. trace: that was angela cox reporting. martha: new details on the fiery tanker crash that led to a bridge collapse near detroit. harris corp. and has the latest in that investigation. >> the pictures say so much. let me tell you what is happening. the ntsb decided they will go to detroit, the area where this happened. they will go to this area. they want to see exactly what went wrong. we know that last night, ok, a big rig was traveling. it rolled over. it was carrying 9,000 gallons of gasoline along interstate 75 in the michigan. another big rig could not stop and it hit that one. that is when the fire ignited. it went underneath the bridge and somehow caused the bridge to collapse. the ntsb says this may not be a

simple traffic accident. this is impacting people all over the area. they had to close down areas near the bridge. three people were hurt. the big news is a team of three people will go from the ntsb to figure out -- there almost treating this like a plane crash. they want to know how in the world could two trucks collide and the bridge not even get hit and it falls down. they're all over this. that is the latest. back to you. trace: there is a new police video showing courage under fire. an entire family trapped in burning van. look at that band. their mother, disabled and unable to move. how mom and dad and the daughters got to save the. -- got to safety.

trace: 37 minutes past the hour. we're waiting testimony from frank ricci at the sotomayor hearings. this is critical because this is the guy that will tie this altogether. he is the witness in the new haven firefighters case. his case was tossed out by the second court of appeals and reversed by the supreme court. sonia sotomayor was reversed by the supreme court. the contention in republicans is that when sonia sotomayor

said the statement about a wise latina, that was a theory. when she made the ruling about the frank ricci case, that was actually putting the case law in play. this is critical. his testimony is coming up. we will bring that to you live. in the metal box, sarah palin has been invited to iowa by the republican party to headline its annual rate in dinner set for this fall. iowa is the first stop. the sears tower in chicago has been renamed. it is now the willis tower named after the will is holding company. martha: i think i will still call it the sears tower. it feels like every year, we have some kind of tragedy on a cruise ship. the fbi now was holding basically everybody on this ship for the last 24 hours.

there has been a crime committed on the ship. a woman is believed to have been killed. the death of a woman passenger. the ship is called the election. the crews left on saturday and arrived in san diego about 8:00 a.m. the fbi is investigating what they think is a domestic dispute that ended in the death of this woman. trace: these are live burials from our fox affiliate in san diego. this cruise boat goes down and cruises along the mexican riviera and it makes its way back up. nobody can get off the boat until the fbi gets on and does their investigation and find out what is going on. can you imagine? it is not horrible, but you are on the carnival cruise line, but the whole point is you are being held captive. martha: with a murderer. trace: remember the game "clue"? you figure out who was the criminal. that is what they're doing on a

grand scale in san diego. martha: i think harris is up there with more details. >> it is always the butler who did it. i do not know if you know this, but they showed a live shot of the deck and there are people out on that deck. the fbi has yet to release this ship. when i talked with a spokesperson from carnival cruise lines, she told me that will be the case. the fbi and coast guard will keep the ship under lock and key. they have arrested the husband of the woman because they have ascertained there was a fight inside the cabin last night. i do not know if they have witnesses. i assume that information will come out in days to come. a fight happened late last night and this morning, she turns up dead. they pull into the san diego port here. as you said, at 8:00 this morning, they learned that they

cannot get off. you are not going anywhere. you are not getting off this ship. the fbi has yet to release them. they have arrested the one guy. we will just have to see. they did not give any condition or how this woman died. we still do not have their names yet. we are working on it. lots of people still on that ship. these are live pictures, aren't they? we're starting to see some people just outside that complex. back to you. trace: harris walker, thanks very much. an amazing story out of georgia. this family is lucky. this is what she is talking about. a blown tire on the family van sparking an inferno, trapping her sister and that, plus her disabled mom. you can hear her. just released. police video shows house but -- shows how the rescue went down. tim lemmings' helped in this daring rescue.

he joins us now. i cannot imagine, when you approach this vehicle and you see the fire, what is going through your mind? do you have a plan to get these people out? >> well, the plan was quite simple. there was fire and there were people very close to the fire. we were there to get them away from the fire as quickly as we could. trace: that is the whole thing. people are thinking that is amazing. how hot is it? you get closer and these people are screaming. what is the plan of attack? you are trying to get them out as quickly as possible, but there has to be a game plan. looked at the explosion. >> it is not like in the motion pictures were you see a car exploded and it goes every which way. we knew that we had a little bit of time, but not much. we tried to move the people out as quickly as we could. because of their disabilities, they were not able to move themselves. it had to be a team effort. trace: some of these people were

disabled. we should also say, when you say you had a little bit of time, you said you thought you had some time, how do you know that? how do you know how much time? do you have previous experience? do you know how fast the burning cars go up? >> like i said, it is not like the movies where it just explodes. trace: this thing looks bad. >> yes, but it was a team effort. we have been trained to handle crisis situations. it is our job to try to remain as calm as we can so the people around us stay calm. we had to get loud with one of the people, who was going into shock and refusing to move. i kind of had to get on her little bit to get moving, now, now. she finally did and she help

yourself get out of the way. we were trying to carry her away. trace: i would be among those going into shock. when you pull these people out, what did they say? what was their reaction? >> well, the two women that we had to handle the most, they were not very vocal toward us. there were concerned about their family. there were very thankful. the father and the doctor were very thankful. we're thankful that we got them out. trace: great work. thank you, sir. let's go to martha. martha: i came over here to talk to shepard smith. you guys are all over the florida case. >> we are. the sheriff will be on with us to talk about the safe. it sounds like they have everything put together. there is one more person of interest, right? >martha: they think that person

failed to turn up the surveillance cameras. the planning and the time that went into this operation, it is tragically fascinating. shepard: it really is. the other thing we're talking about is the stimulus bill and the economy. unemployment numbers are bad. they're getting a little better. we are way over what the white house has projected with the stimulus bill. even without the stimulus bill. karl rove opined today about this and he will join us live to talk about the stimulus. there's talk of the second stimulus. martha: he has said they have been promising things they're not delivering on. thank you. back to you. trace: thank you. reliving the greatest moments of the space age. nasa marking a major milestone, releasing spectacular video. of the first -- spectacular video of the first moon landing. 90s slacker hip-hop. ♪ singer: buckle up, everybody 'cause we're taking a ride ♪

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trace: breaking news on capitol hill. that is firefighter frank ricci testifying before the senate committee. >> when your house is on fire or your life is in jeopardy, there are no times for do over. the test i took was without a doubt a job-related exam that was based on skill, knowledge, and ability, needed to ensure public and the firefighters say. we all had an equal opportunity to succeed as individuals and we were all provided a road map

to prepare for the exam. achievement is neither limited more determined by one's race, but by one skills, dedication, commitment, and character. ours is not a jot that can be handed out without regard to merit and qualifications. for this reason, i and many others prepared for these positions throughout our career. i studied harder than i ever had before, reading, making flashcards, highlighting, reading again, all my listening to prepared tapes. i went before numerous panels to prepare for the oral assessment. i was a virtual absentee father and husband for months because of it. in 2004, the city of new haven felt not enough minorities would be promoted and that the political price for complying with title 7, the city's civil service rules, and the charter would be too high. therefore, they chose not to

fill the vacancies. such action deprived all of us the process set forth by the rule of law, firefighters who earned promotion were denied them. despite the important civil rights and constitutional claims we raised, the court of appeals panel disposed of our case in an unsigned summary order that consisted of a single paragraph that made mention of my dyslexia and thus led many to think that this was a case about me and a disability. this case had nothing to do with that. it had everything to do with ensuring our command officers were competent to answer the call and our right to advance in our profession based on merit, regardless of race. americans have the right to go into our federal courts and have their cases judged based on the constitution and our laws, not on politics or personal feeling.

the lower courts believe that citizens should be reduced to racial statistics is flawed. it only divide people who do not wish to be divided along racial lines. the very reason we have civil service rules is to root out politics, discrimination, and nepotism. our case demonstrates that these ills will exist if the roles of merit are not followed. our courts are the last resort for americans whose rights are violated, making decisions solely based on statistics and politics were the outcome of the decision to result in injury or death is contrary to sound public policy. the more attention our case scott, the more some people tried to distort. it bothered us greatly that some perceive this case as involving at testing process that resulted in minorities being completely excluded from

promotion. that was entirely false, as minority firefighters were victimized by the city's decision as well. as a result of our case, they should now enjoy the career advancement that they have earned and deserve. and during over five years of court proceedings took its toll on us and our families. the case was longer -- was no longer just about us, but about some many americans that have lost faith in the court system. when we finally won our case and saw the messages we received from every corner of the country, we understood that we did something important together. we sought basic fairness and even handed enforcement of the laws, something all americans believe in. again, thank you for the honor and privilege of speaking to you today. >> thank you very much for your testimony.

we will now hear from lt. ben vargas. he worked part-time as a consultant for company -- trace: that was frank ricci testifying before the senate judiciary committee. he is the white new haven firefighter that filed a discrimination lawsuit against new haven because he took the test, he passed it, and did not get the promotion he thought he deserved. nobody to this day has gotten a promotion at the fire department in new haven while this is being settled. this is the latino who also did not get that promotion. let's listen. >> both parties have noted the importance of this proceeding because decisions of the supreme court can greatly impact the everyday lives of ordinary americans. i suppose that i and fellow plaintiffs have shown how true that is. i never envisioned being a

plaintiff in a supreme court case, much less one that generated so much media and public interest. i am hispanic and proud of the heritage and background that judge sotomayor and i share. i congratulate judge sotomayor on her nomination. the focus should not have been on me being hispanic. the focus should have been on what i did to earn a promotion to captain and how my own government and some courts responded to that. in short, they did not care. i think it's important for you to know what i did, that a play by the rules, and endured a long process of asking the court to enforce those rules. i am the father of young sons. i sought to better my life. i spent three months in daily study preparing for an exam that was job-related. my wife, a special-education teacher, took time off work to

see me and my children through this process. i knew we would see little of my son's during these months. i studied every day. i would place photographs of my boys in front of me when i would get tired and wanted to stop. i would look at the pictures and realize their own futures depended on mine. i would keep going. at one point, i passed out and went to a hotel to avoid any distractions. those pictures came with me. i was shocked when i was not rewarded for this hard work and sacrifice. i was actually penalized for it. i became not ben vargas who proved themselves qualified, but a racial statistics. i had to make decisions whether to join those who wanted promotions to be based on race and ethnicity or join those who would insist on being judged

solely on their qualifications i am proud of the decision i made and proud of the principle that our group the indicated together. in our profession, we do not have the luxury of being wrong or having long debate. we must be correct the first time and make decisions under the pressure of time and events. those who make these decisions must have the knowledge necessary to get it right the first time. unlike the judicial system, there are no continuances, motions, or appeals. errors can cost people their lives. in our profession, the racial and ethnic makeup of my crew is the least important thing and to the public we serve. i believe the countless americans who have something to say about our case understand that now. firefighters and their leaders stand between their fellow citizens and catastrophe. americans want those who are the

most knowledgeable and qualified to do the task. i'm willing to risk and lay down my life for fellow citizens. i was not willing to go along with those who placed racial identity over these more critical considerations. i am not a lawyer, but i quickly learned about the law as it applies to this case. studying it as much as i studied for my exam, i thought it clear that we were denied our fundamental civil rights. i expected lady justice with the blindfold on. any reason the opinion from the federal court of appeals telling me, my fellow plaintiffs, and the public that the court's view on the law was and do it in an open and transparent with. we were devastated to see a one- paragraph order summarily dismissing our case and even the notion that we had presented important legal issues to that court of appeals.

i expect the judges heard my case along the way would make the right decision, the one required by the rule of law. of all that has been written about our case, we did not ask for sympathy or empathy. we ask only for enforcement of the law. we were denied just that. thank you. >> thank you for your testimony. martha: very moving testimony talking about how he did not want to be judged on the fact that he was hispanic. it is such a great example of people taking their case all the way to the highest court in this land. he talked about how they were summarily shot down with a one- paragraph response by the court that justice -- judge sotomayor sat on at that time