steve: see you back here tomorrow. foxnews.com for the after the show show. [captioning made possible by fox news channel] captioned by the national captioning institute --www.ncicap.org-- bill: new estimates on the cost of the democrats' health plan. we obtained fresh estimates from republican members. that shows the potential impact on our deficit in the years ahead. it starts in 2013 and goes until 2029. that is where we begin this morning megyn: hello, everyone -- this morning. megyn: hello, everyone. these are the numbers that the white house and the media are not talking about.

the reason? they show the health care estimates beyond the 10-year mark. bill: it took some digging from washington from our team to find these numbers. good morning, bill sammon. where did we get these numbers? >> these are from the republican staff in the house ways and means committee, in direct contradiction to what the president asserted. he said, "health insurance reform will not add to our deficit in the next decade, and i mean it." by the way, "in the next decade" is a key phrase. later on he said, health care would make deficits go down, but these new statistics from the

republicans showed that over a 10-year period, they claim health care reform will add $769 billion to the deficit. bill: and that is too big for us to even show. democrats, do they oppose these numbers? >> all i hear from the press is the president's assertion that the deficit numbers will not go up. i have not seen very much reporting on this, other than from us. what is interesting about the democrats, if you look at their proposal, one of the reason they get away with this is because they have tax hikes that would begin two years before health care benefits would begin to

begin, and four years before the benefits will fully starts. -- fully start. i think that is what masks some of the increases in spending. bill: what they do not take into account is prevention programs, wellness programs which would make the country healthier, and you could argue that the health care costs could be brought down. that is their argument. but the reason why the cbo -- not to go too deep into this -- they can only go out 10 years into the future because that is what they are paid for. >> that is right, but the president said that two-thirds of the health care plan would be derived from savings in wasteful

practices in the existing medicare and medicaid system. that is a huge promise that he is basing this on. so if there is that much waste in these entitlement programs now, why would you not fix those programs and other entitlement programs like social security? we are going to run out of money on that. with each passing day, these questions arise. the president gave a press conference yesterday, but strangely he ends up on defense. more people are asking questions about this. bill: say hello to the fall schedule. thank you. megyn: speaking of the president being on defense, one question asked was how did he open the door to paying for health reform with new taxes on the middle class?

the president has always said he would not increase taxes on the middle-class. last night, he was asked about who would have to pay for the health-care overhaul. listen carefully to what he said. >> i do not want that final one- third of the cost of health care to be completely shouldered on the backs of middle-class families who are already struggling in a difficult economy. if i see a proposal that is primarily funded through tax in middle-class families, and i will be opposed to it. megyn: he said primarily he was opposed to the proposal. just how much, if any, of the burden is the president bouqueo

having the middle class shoulder? bill: weekly jobless claims just released. 564,000 newly laid-off americans signing up for unemployment benefits. economists expected 550,000. however, the total number of unemployed fell. that is the lowest number since april. of course, that does not include the people coming off of the government benefit payroll. earlier in the week, over 100 republicans went to the house to ask where these jobs were that were promised with the stimulus. the folks at gop.gov put this video together. >> where are the jobs? >> listen with me.

maybe we can hear the sound of drums. -- jobs. >> where are the jobs? >> this congress and administration have made job creation of a second concern. >> where are those jobs? >> before we move on, the american people are asking, mr. president, where are the jobs? bill: that was on monday of this week. the white house says stimulus is starting to produce results, and that we should see more hiring as a result in the near future. megyn: this is a fox news alert. big news from pakistan. sources confirming that u.s. military officials believe they have killed one of the usama bin

laden's sons in an air strike. we are live in afghanistan. is this accurate? >> u.s. officials believe so. the past few years, saad bin laden had been under house arrest in iran before moving to pakistan to join other operatives. officials say they are fairly confident -- confident that he was killed in a drone strike. he was not the target, but they have described him as collateral damage. he was not considered a major player, but because of his father, he has name recognition. u.s. officials hailed this drone system of attacking as a very

pollack -- very valuable program. there have been at least 11 senior members killed by this method. megyn: do we know any kind of relationship that he was maintaining with his father? >> no, there is no evidence that he was in regular contact. mainly because no one knows where he has been. they believe he is still alive, according to senior officials, but they are not sure how much contact he has with the main al qaeda operatives in pakistan. megyn: why are we just learning about this if he was killed months ago? >> the u.s. military has been trying to verify these claims. they are still not 100% sure that they have a high level of confidence that he was killed in

the recent months. part of it is because there are no u.s. troops on the ground to verify, so things need to move through various intelligence channels. typically, they will bury their dead quickly, so verifying is pretty tough. megyn: thank you so much for the update. bill: some days i feel like i am on a video phone, 3-second delay. megyn: i feel like i am dragging today. bill: good morning. megyn: it is it time for kelly's

court? [laughter] bill: president obama saying that republicans criticizing health reform but not offer many ideas. our next guest says that is wrong. also -- megyn: a group of gop congressmen dropping a bombshell on the left-wing group acorn, accusing them of being part of an ongoing criminal enterprise. bill: they have decided there is someone to blame in this brawl. find out where they are laying the blame. are you receiving a payout from a legal settlement

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bill: president obama is on the road today. you'll hear from him in cleveland today. last night part of his remarks included digs at republican members who she says are not offering any new ideas. >> i know how easy it is to get consumed in politics, turning every issue into a running tally of food is winning. i heard one republican member said that even though they want to compromise, it is better politically to go for the kill. let me be clear. it is not about me. i have great health insurance,

and so does every member of congress. this debate is about those letters that i read in my office, from the story that i hear in my town hall meetings. bill: and joining us is one man who has insurance, too, as well as an idea on how to give the country better insurance. you say three things need to take place. under the current system, doctors are sending patients to get tested for things that they do not need. they are covering themselves so that they do not get sued. that sounds like tort reform. >> that is right. we believe getting rid of this junk is critical. we all know the amount of waste this creates. that is something that we need to address.

the president did not talk about that. bill: is inappropriate to bring this up in committee? >> we offered 38 amendments to the bill but none of them were accepted, including if there was a government-planned, members of congress would be included in that. bill: you also say, and regulations on health insurance are outdated. give me an example of a regulation that you could make better. >> if you are a small business, you have to buy insurance within the state that you are working in. why not allow customers to pull together and get a lower cost? why not allow states to come together in compaq's, to bring a better product to people who need health care. bill: it seems like some people

are talking about that on the senate side. >> yes, they are talking about that. we do not seem to be making any progress on that in the house -- bill: let us try no. 3. the proposed eliminating fraud and waste. i do not know anyone who is against this. we found $65 billion in medicare and medicaid in the past three years alone. how would you fight against waste and fraud? >> this is an important issue. american people have numerous examples of where they have been double pane, their bill has been wrong from their hospital visit. we see nothing from the democrats that will get at this issue. it is tens of billions of dollars, if not in the hundreds of billions.

we believe bringing integrity to the government portion of health care, that is a critical part. bill: one more thing. when you are in committee, do you believe other house members talking about this bill, do they have a clear understanding of what the white house wants? >> i think they do. we had a pretty vigorous debate, unfortunately it was only one day. people are very engaged on this issue. the idea that doing nothing is an alternative is simply fictional. the republicans have been offering concrete ideas. we want to do this right, rather than quickly. bill: thank you very much. megyn: neil armstrong called it one small step for man.

now let us talk about the next giant leap for mankind. a mission to mars. we will show you the road map for sending regular americans to the red planet. bill: we have a decision in the case of a brawl between a police man and e m t. we will tell you how the officer was punished. you can decide if it is fair. chloe is 9 months old. she is the greatest thing ever. woman: one little smile, one little laugh. - honey bunny. - ( coos ) we would do anything for her. my name is kim bryant and my husband and i made a will on legalzoom.

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megyn: you have seen it before. the fight between the oklahoma trooper and this ambulance driver. the oklahoma highway patrolman who grabbed the driver as they argued about why the ambulance allegedly did not yield to the officer -- let us say, one of them flipped the other off. all of this while there was a woman in the back of the ambulance. now someone is paying a price. brian wilson is with us from oklahoma city. >> the investigation is now complete. here is what they found. in their opinion, they believe

the stock was justified and the paramedic did resist arrest, but they also found the trooper used poor judgment and his conduct was unprofessional and unbecoming an officer in oklahoma. for that, here was the official verdict. >> trooper martin will serve a five-day suspension without pay. >> basically, on july 28, he will be back on the street. megyn: it is that satisfactory to the ambulance driver? what is next? >> i happen to have with me the attorney of the paramedic. first of all, they say the stock was justified and that your client resisted arrest. >> it is completely wrong, a white wash. >> what is your reaction to the

sentence? >> they never even discussed the fact that my client was in a chokehold. the jury will be speaking to this in the final analysis. >> thank you very much. he drove down from tulsa, oklahoma to be with us. we had a million questions we wanted to ask, but they refused to take questions because the lawsuit was pending. but the person who made the final decision here was the oklahoma public safety commissioner, kevin ward. he reports directly to the governor. you may notice there is a telephone number for him at the bottom of the screen. megyn: we should see this play out in the court.

bill: we might think this is the strangest moment of political theater. the governor of california talking about budget cuts with a hunting knife in his hands. we will be talking about that. megyn: and one of the wonders of the world is disappearing. we will take you for the search for the answer. gecko vo: geico's the third-largest car insurance company in the nation. but, it's not like we're kicking back, now, havin' a cuppa tea. gecko vo: takes lots of sweat to become that big. gecko vo: 'course, geckos don't literally sweat... it's just not our thing... gecko vo: ...but i do work hard, mind you. gecko vo: first rule of "hard work equals success." gecko vo: that's why geico is consistently

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bill: welcome back. we take a look at capitol hill. in a moment, we expect to see the debate over insurance

continue. with regard to the health care bill, there was another public hearing today, closed door meetings. millions of americans do not have insurance at all. the president says the number is as high as 47 million. if that is correct, who are the uninsured? steve brown is with us from chicago. the stereotype is people who are uninsured are people who have lost their job. is that a fair statement? >> it is fair, but not completely true. one woman falls into the category. she lost her job, could not keep up with cobra coverage, so she lost insurance. >> i kept thinking i would get a job, and i have never had a problem, and it has been one

year that i have been without health insurance. >> without insurance, a lot of folks children are also not covered. bill: in that group there were also people who could afford insurance but are making the decision not to buy. >> 11 and certainly thinks so. she is the former director of the cbo. she found 43% of people between 18 and 64 could afford to buy insurance. however, they do not for various reasons. perhaps they do not have many health issues. bill: younger people are in that category, too. there has been talk about illegals being covered.

are they in that 47 million? >> according to census bureau figures, at least 9.7 million are not citizens without insurance. they do not differentiate between who is here illegally and who is here illegalllegallyt certainly millions would be covered if we are talking about covering everyone without insurance. bill: thank you for tracking down this story. the president will be there at the end of the day today. megyn: this is a fox news alert. more trouble for the left-wing group acorn. republicans are calling for and criminal investigation for this group which does, among other things, voter registrations.

republicans say the business is an ongoing criminal enterprise, guilty of fraud. here is an excerpt from the report that we have gotten. it goes on from there. they talk about how they have provided contributions of money and resources to everyone from rod blagojevich to president obama, when he was running for office. talking about them using money that was given to them by the government that is not supposed to be used for political purposes.

in the meantime, we are joined by one of a lawmaker's behind the report, congressman stephen king. this is pretty big. they are calling for this group to be criminally investigated by the department of justice. now you want hearings to see how much of our taxpayer money has gone to these efforts. you say that you have proof of our money was used for their political causes? >> that is what i understand the report says. i have only had the opportunity to review some of the executive summaries of the report. this is a factual report, a bipartisan report, and brings out a lot of the things that i have been talking about.

we know that once you put money in a pot, it can go just about anywhere. it seems they are systematically spreading that money and creating a paper shield. some other activity seems to be illegal, other activities just unethical. by the way, i went down to their headquarters and took a picture. there is a large obama poster in the window of their headquarters in new orleans. they are in a partisan organization funded by partisan dollars, and now they have access to $8.5 billion. this report could embarrass the administration. megyn: $53 million in federal funds since 1994. i want to make this clear.

supposedly, they are a nonpartisan, nonprofit organization that helps people get low-interest mortgages. there is a wing of the group that is openly political. they are allowed to do that, but they cannot use those taxpayer dollars that went to the non- profit part of the organization. is that the way it works? >> is so complicated, i barely understand the problem. we have filed amendments striking 174 affiliations that they have formed. many of their boards and directors are the same people, same address, just changing the language a bit. it cannot be tracked well, but this report looked at almost $1

million of investment connected to the brother of the founder. they cover that for years and used donor funds to pay for embezzlement. there is also a tax fraud and electioneering here. the chair of the small business committee was angry and argued that i should not have brought a partisan amendment to the small business committee, alleging that they are partisan. i think that was an admission. this congress is not going to allow even a vote to block funding to acorn. they cannot face the embarrassment. when i introduced my first amendment, i suggested shunning congress down for one whole day to figure this out.

megyn: who can we call to fix this problem? who can our viewers call? >> if he would listen, the chairman of the hearings, and john conyerjohn conyers. he has said, however, that there would not be an investigation. if the pressure gets turned up, the american people will have to demand that their tax dollars are not used for corruption or fraud. this undermines the constitution. if we lose credibility of our collection process, we turn into a banana republic. they are using funds to corrupt

the election process. they have admitted to a fraudulent election forms, but they say that it did not necessarily transformed into votees. s. what else when they say it? megyn: they say this is a recycled, repackaged attack drug on their group. most of -- attack on their group. most of these figures are from 1994. thank you for being our guest. >> by the way, non-partisan committee report. non-partisan committee report. bill: ups says second quarter

profits plunged 49%. the company making $445 million compared to last year of $833 million. the global downturn is taking its toll. this is also a bellwether of u.s. commerce and trade, a strong measure of how strong the economy is. watch what happens to them in the current quarter. that will tell you how good we are doing. if we are not moving goods, people are not buying and selling. megyn: we have a better look at that horrific light rail train crash in san francisco. see what videos showed officials. bill: it would be an asset's greatest mission. astronauts on mars.

we have a look at their plan to get there. welcome to the now network. currently, thousands of people

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bill: while the nation one buzzing about the 40th anniversary of the moon landing, there was one idea that kept popping up. a mission to send astronauts to mars. now nasa has unveiled their plans and what a mission to mars would look like. with me now it is a theoretical physicist. nice to see you. just so we know, 230,000 miles to the moon. it is millions of miles to months. how do we get there? >> nasa has always been quiet on these types of things, but they have revealed a possible mission

to mars. it would take 2.5 years to mars. it takes only one week to get to the moon. bill: you say they need a nuclear rocket. good luck with that. or a chemical engines similar to the space center. you say 2.5 years. i have read 180 days. >> that is right. it would take that much time there and back, and you would also need to spend some time on the planet. you would need to create rocket fuel on the planet. in a sense, we would be sending them on a 1-waone-way trip.

that is what it would take so long. they would have to grow plants, recycle waste, everything that science fiction writers have been theorizing on. now we have a plan. bill: who is volunteering for this? [laughter] this makes the moon landing look like a sunday picnic. >> there is so much equipment, almost 2 million pounds, that name will need to ship it ahead of time. bill: i found this fascinating. to survive, the air and water needs to be completely recycled. there would also be a 40-minute time delay in communications because the distance is so great. >> that is right, and that delthe delay from the moon is oy

one second. bill: what kind of economic advantage would we get from this? >> in the future, we could become a two plant species. mars is a bleak, frozen desert. no military or economic advantages, however. bill: what would we want to be a two plant species? what is wrong with earth? -- planet species? >> just the other day we were talking about space debris landing on jupiter the size of earth.

it would be a very long journey to mars. maybe you do not even care for these people. that would cause some problems. [laughter] bill: that would be interesting. by the way, the president should be making some announcements about this. thank you for coming on today. megyn: there is an episode of the "samsimpsons" and where bart says that new york city is full. they've run but they cannot hide. how police and got this driver to pull over, the hard way. bill: and from the middle east, mike tobin brings us the facts

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bill: this is too good not to follow up on. the governor of california following up on a menu that he posted. we showed you this video where he is holding a hunting knife, talking about the budget. critics say it was in poor taste after they agreed to a budget that would cut $14 billion from government services. he respond with the following --

megyn: if it attracts people from all over the world because of it healing properties and its ability to float on the surface, but the dead sea is rapidly disappearing. sinkholes left on its banks as the water dries up, and some of them are 30 feet deep. that is where we have mike tobin. what is going on? >> you mentioned, the dead sea is shrinking. locals have begun to tap into the river. this is very salty, and is no longer depositing salt into the

ground, then there is fresh water coming through here. you will be able to see how loose all of this earth is. the water can come down hearing into the soil and washes away salt tables that have been deposited here. once that happens, it opened up a cave underneath this soil. then someone comes along, all of a sudden, he falls through one of these samples. -- sinkholes. about 3000 of these have opened up. they estimate about 3000 are ready to open up any second. because of that, construction and tourism sides have been closed. that is one problem because people do enjoy the banks of the

dead sea. megyn: so what are they going to do about it? >> 1 conceptual idea they are talking about is to dig a canal from the red sea to hear. this is the lowest spot on the planet. we are 1,130 feet below sea level. that is one solution, but it would be very expensive. the other idea is to build a canal from the mediterranean sea. it is all just conceptual for right now. megyn: that was a great story. [applause] now get out of dethat sinkhole!

bill: a u.s. man is arrested for giving information to al qaeda. we will have an update. megyn:

megyn: this is a fox news alert. a major push by the administration on health care. president obama is getting his daily briefing right now. he is headed to a high-school in ohio later on. just hours after taking recommendations on his health- care overhaul. [captioning made possible by fox news channel] captioned by the national captioning institute --www.ncicap.org-- bill: good morning. folks on both sides of the aisle reacting to the president's news conference. today he faces a packed house with ordinary americans. megyn: molly henneberg is with us. the president talked about a lot of things last night. one thing he did not cover it is how he intends to pay for health-care reform. they say it will be over $1 trillion.

>> that is the question period today he will go to cleveland. -- that is the question. today he will go to cleveland. president obama believes two- thirds of the cost of his reform can be paid for by reducing waste and fraud. >> the house suggested a surcharge on wealthy americans, and my understanding, although i have not seen final versions, is only applying that to families whose joint income is $1 million. to me, that meets the principal that the burden will not be shouldered by families who are already having a tough time. >> he also said that dead reform cannot -- he also said that the

budget should not add to the deficit. megyn: listening to him, you would have thought that the republicans were the problem. however, we have known that the blue dog democrats are also involved. nevertheless, republicans taking aim at the president, saying health care could be the president's waterloo. the president commented on that. then jim demint had a response. >> that is right. he said that it could "break him." he said it is not personal, it is not about president obama as a person, but he opposes what he is trying to do with health care. >> we are trying to break his

momentum. it has been an unprecedented growth in government and spending, and nothing seems to be slowing down. we need to slow him down. we cannot allow this to continue. >> president obama said this is not about him but of about americans who need help paying medical bills. he said it is easy for washington to get consumed with politics. megyn: now they are continuing to gear up that message that they had yester day, offering of white house officials to get the message out to try to pick up some momentum. thank you. bill: if you thought the man overseeing the bailout was fired up, here you see him again lashing out at the treasury.

the treasury accused his team of doing some creative accounting on account of these bailouts. >> as far as the numbers being inflated, we got those from the treasury department. we got it from the federal reserve. if these numbers are inflated, it is because they inflated it when they released it to. bill: he said all the various bailout could cost the government 24 trillion. that is a risk that they have talked about. he also accuses the treasury of being less than transparent megyn: updating. megyn: officials are 80% certain that in the air strike has killed saad bin laden. some are reporting that he was

not important enough to be the actual target of the strike, but likely in the wrong place at the wrong time, although we are hearing some conflicting reports on that. he was thought to be in his 20's and traveled to pakistan after being released from house arrest. bill: a long island man accused of being a terrorist, accused of providing detailed information about the new york city subway system and long island railway system, and would take part in a rocket attack. since pleading guilty, reports said that he has become a government source in the war on terror. how much harm did he cause? >> actually, he pleaded guilty to a number of charges, and he did fire rockets at servicemen

in afghanistan. he provided specialized knowledge about the subway system here in new york as well as the long island railroad. the information he provided did create a bit of a disturbance last thanksgiving. authorities were concerned that there was an attack in the works, although nothing happened. here is the real twist in the story. he might be more of the help and hinder to security. now he is speaking to security officials as well as describing al qaeda activities. he has been described as something of a star witness. this could become one of the best things to happen to investigators.

bill: he was picked up in afghanistan? >> that is right. he was picked up in pakistan. he was there to purchase some supplies. apparently he had used the internet. many people in the area are shocked to learn about their neighbor. this is a new york city suburb. this is where he grew up. his mother is shocked by what happened. more recently, she said that her son broke her heart and does not want to see him again. he did attend one mosque in long island, and the leader there says that he is surprised and shocked by his activities.

interestingly, the congressmean from new york said that this is a warning about the threat of home grown terrorism. bill: thank you for the story. for more updates, go to our website, foxnews.com /liveshots. you will be able to comment on the stories that we report. megyn: i want to see more with mike tobin. i hope he is out by now. when michael jackson died, conrad murray was by his bedside. now he could be in the world of trouble.

federal agents raiding his clinic in houston. the incredible charges he could be facing and who else is being looked at by investigators. bill: and ran new surveillance video tape from an incredible san francisco train collision, giving us a new look at what happened. megyn: and a reporter gets more than an earful from the wife of a village councilmen. what her husband did that got her so angry. quality and reliability...

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bill: for the first time we are getting a rare and stunning look at the moment two commuter trains collided in san francisco.

multiple cameras captured the impact. 48 people were injured in that crash. four seriously. the operator of the train responsible told investigators that he blacked out before it happened. megyn: police raiding the offices of michael jackson's personal physician for evidence of manslaughter. dr. conrad murray was with jackson when he died. he was getting paid handsomely, by the way. now he is under investigation, and is not the only one. the lapd also serving a subpoena for his wit and nutritionist -- his nutritionist. she claims weeks before he died, he begged her for a powerful anesthetic which some believe is

the drum that ultimately killed him. so are we close to criminal charges being filed? joining me now is bob massey. this is interesting. the police did not say why they were going into the office, but his lawyer said the subpoena says they are searching for evidence for manslaughter. how do they get to that? >> lapd came to vegas a few days ago, and they were working on this case. from what we have been told, they felt it was necessary to try to gather evidence, probably looking at the types of medication he had. i was surprised that the lawyer made this statement about manslaughter. i would not have done that.

and i was surprised that they talked about it so openly. megyn: if they find a prescription for this anesthetic, and evidence that he may have given it to michael jackson, that would close a critical loop in the case. he denied giving jackson certain narcotics on the day he died but was mum on profile -- that drug. >> i think the complicated part of this is access of other physicians, other than marie, if it existed, assuming that the reports that we have are correct, we could know what led

up to this. since he was the only one present, if they can make the connection and get causation, surely it could be enough for a criminal indictment. megyn: they have looked at the offices of the nutritionist, offices of the dermatologist, as well as one of his pain management doctors. however, let us say they find all the evidence that they were providing him with drugs. does any of that matter, if in the end, what caused his death was the administration of this crazy drug? it is only a broken right before surgery, but not in your home. could this wind up exonerating the rest of the doctors, except

conrad murray? >> it will all be in that defense of the case. assuming he is indicted for manslaughter, surely, the prosecutor will bring all of this information and try to focus on this. if he is the one there, if it was administered by him, a reasonable people will say that he is a doctor, he is there, and he could be the cause. will thethis other evidence play into this case? absolutely. megyn: can you make a manslaughter case, that a doctor administering the anesthetic in a bedroom setting -- he would have to defend it. he will have to explain why he did it.

can you make the case that it is a reckless action creating the risk of death? >> what could make it reckless was the environment and circumstances in which it took place. assuming what has been reported is true, that he was on so many medications, that could bring it to the reckless level. he is on so many medications and then you administer that medication, that could have been the one to take him over the top. megyn: when you know you have a drug addict, you know that they will want drugs. it is up to the people around him to say no. >> i do not know dr. mariurray. you wonder why he would even put himself in the place that he did.

it has been reported that he had some financial problems. i do not know how truthful that is. however, there have been talks that he informed a patient in march that he was on the list to become the michael jackson's personal cardiologists. when that happened, he immediately went to see him and he was put on the payroll. megyn: he was to get something around $300,000 a month. thank you. bill: you wonder why it took him one month to get to his office. he spoke to police one month ago. one of the senators who says he will protect us from rationing health care has stopped negotiating. he is with us now. senator hatch explained why. megyn: and a diver learns the hard way you cannot help run the cops. but he did try.

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megyn: 1 new jersey community is living in fear of the wild turkey. it showed up mysteriously and he settled in on one block and is tracing the neighbors up and down the street. the mailman is a favorite target, even going after the tires on his truck.

>> he chased you? >> yes, they are pretty fast. i understand they can run 25 miles per hour. >> he would not leave. he kept on following me. >> who is in charge, you or the turkey? >> who do you think? >> it has been a lot of fun. megyn: it turns out it could be looking for love. experts say it is mating season and he could have been separated from the flock. [laughter] bill: turkeys cannot run 25 miles per hour. show me the video. we are watching the health care debate pitting democrats against republicans, and democrats

against democrats. what we have not heard very much is from those politicians who represent people from the city and country. molly line has the details. the story is about hospital funding. >> lawmakers are essentially concern that as reform goes forward, their hospitals and clinics will take a hit. lawmakers in rural areas have argued that the big city areas are the ones that get all the funding, but representatives who represent those areas say that this is all about jobs. they also say that they need the money so that innovation is not stifled, as well as to keep different areas running. bill: is this the type of issue that could help health care reform? >> this could be a sticking

point, actually. we spoke with their representative here in massachusetts. here is what they had to say. >> we all want health care for americans. at the same time, the idea that some group can go after the interests of another group, that could become a deal breaker. this is no different. >> this is all about negotiations. this is the type of issue that could chip away at those alliances needed to pass this health care reform. bill: thank you. megyn: a wild ride through the streets of atlanta. police, on the tail of a white pickup truck. take a look at him. finally, he pulls over and

hides. but you know where this is going. they are never a match. getting taken away into custody. now facing charges, including car theft. bill: senator orrin hatch says he has had it. why he is walking away from any more discussions on health care. megyn: and another politician in trouble at home and with the law. what happened after allegations were made about this councilman. bill: and a 19-year-old at the time to in the water. -- at taft in the water. -- attacked in the water. r 70 years. and who doesn't want value for their dollar? been true since the day i made my first dollar.

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megyn: an update on one of our top stories. it was intel says they are 85% sure that saad bin laden was killed in a drone the time. he was not a top target, but we are expecting more information shortly. president obama goes to ohio for a town hall debate. crowds gathering as the president takes his push for reform straight to the public. bill: our next guest was taking part in bipartisan talks aimed at reforming health care, until yesterday. orrin hatch has said that he will leave discussions, walk away. he is with us to explain. good morning. >> good morning. bill: you are a member of the

republican finance committees. what are you walking away? >> these are all colleagues of mine, great people, but they have reached a point where i know that i cannot support what they are doing. i did not want to be there under false pretenses. i thought it was better for me to leave it up to them. bill: what are they talking about that is so objectionable to you? >> first of all, there will be a government takeover of health care. i cannot support that. they are talking about co-ops, the liberals say that there needs to be a national co op with the government. if we move to a government plan, -- my goodness, we have $39 trillion in the unfunded

liabilities, so you can imagine. bill: so it is the cost? >> that and a couple of other things. employee mandates will cost all kinds of jobs, especially those at the lower end of the spectrum. minimum wage workers will not be able to have jobs because people will be cutting back. even the zero n d says that it will produce jobs were cut back on jobs, reduce payments, or send them overseas. bill: could i stop you there? i am trying to figure this out. i know in your committee they are talking about a call on the state level, as opposed to being a national plan. what is that, what is a state: off? -- co-op? >> nobody really knows right

now. it was an excellent suggestion from senator conrad from north dakota. it was an idea to come up with something that was not a government run. i was willing to look at that, but the liberal democrats are insisting there be a national co-op set up by the government to run health care. frankly, if we do that, we are going to wind up with a very poor health care system. last but not least, they want to move all sorts of people into medicare. one of the best analytical group on health care said that if they do that, they may displace 119 million people into medicaid. why would we do that when we cannot even control medicare? one reason they want to do these things is because the power behind the scenes want to push

this to a single payer system where the federal government controls all the health care. they will deny it and say that it is not what they are doing, but those are the incremental steps to a single payer system. bill: that is what you take away from all the discussions and back and forth in the negotiations. a single payer system? >> that is what they are pushing for. if you listened to the president, he spoke with a bit of admiration about that system. having the government run everything, according to liberals, is the way to go. i disagree. i believe we will end up with rationing of care, especially for elderly people, and will end up with a huge bureaucracy that will put you between -- that would put themselves between you and your physician.

bill: i want to play a short clip from this press conference and then ask you some questions. >> i have not seen what the senate finance committee is producing. they have a number of of ideas but we have not seen a final draft. the house suggested a surcharge on wealthy americans and my understanding, although i have not seen final versions, is making that only applied to families whose joint income is $1 million. bill: whether it is the house or senate version, he says he has not seen it yet, which is understandable. democrats in your committee, and you believe that they know what the president wants? >> i feel like the president has not really weighed in very much. he has got to roll up his

sleeves. without his personal involvement, we cannot get a health care bill done. with his involvement, listen, i happen to let the president, but when he talks centrist and everything he does is left, you will find a push towards a single payer system. bill: you say the president has not been engaged enough to get this done? >> i do not know anyone who believes he has been. you are not going to get a healthcare bill that can handle 1/6 of the economy without the president. i understand why he does not want to, but on the other hand, this is what leadership is about. he is a very influential, very well spoken, intelligent man,

and you cannot help but like him, but you cannot change once last checks -- 1/6 of the economy without the help from the president. megyn: photographs of detainees on the war on terror said to be kept under wraps by the white house. what do they show, and why are they secret? also, a reporter shows up to watch a village councilmen a few questions. she is not having any of it. why? the arrest that sent the councilmen's other half into a rage. >> get away! is what i need

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bill: this is a fox news alert.

the dow 30 is back above 9000. apparently, sales of existing homes rose at a faster rate than expected for the month of june. that was the third month in a row, so investors feel pretty good about that. nicely done. megyn: on the docket today, a lawmaker, his wife, and the bus that could crush his career. michael hamilton, councilman outside of detroit, booked for bwi. police say that they saw him leave. when they pulled him overcome his blood alcohol lovell was twice the legal limit. they say he had an open container as well as an open zipper, along with a 21-year-old girl in the car that was not his

wife. a reporter showed up at his home and runs into the mrs. >> get off of my property. get out of here! get away from my children. get away! megyn: so, how does the councilman get out of this one? and if she in trouble for assaulting the reporter? let me ask our panel. i know you get upset, but when the cameras are rolling, you have to dial it down. having said that, he was arrested with twice the legal limit. now he is facing the wi charges,

open container charges. how does he get out of this? >> plea-bargain. sometimes, winning is defined by doing everything you can to get the best possible outcome for your client. in this case, she was actuallhee impaired at that time that he was driving from when he was tested at the station. what do i believe in situations like this? he has an alcohol problem, so he needs to go into treatment, said don with prosecutors and accept responsibility and get every benefit. then he can move on. megyn: he seems to have a problem. he was arrested twice before.

but after bar fights and the alleged intoxication. those charges went away, but he has a history. >> you are right, he seems to have a problem. why do we do these things? >> i am not driving around with a 21-year-old in my car with my zipper down. do not bring me into this. [laughter] >> he wins more run of the month. he has plenty of problems. he comes out of the bar drug, practically falls into the arms of the cop who says, if you are going to drive, i am going to arrest you. then he gets into his truck in front of the officer and takes off. that is not it. he has the open container, and

then a 21-year-old girl next to him. in fairness, we do not know much about her. you put all this together and he could possibly see 93 days. as a good attorney, why try to take his money? if he tries to fight, he may lose even more money. megyn: that is right. they need to work on a plea bargain. he is on the ballot for re- election in timber, so he may not have much support. now let us talk about his wife. this reporter is a fox affiliate. she is doing her job. you can see she is on a public sidewalk. so can the prosecute her for what she does to the reporter?

>> technically, they can, but i do not think they will. she did not do this, it was him. whether or not the reporter should have lingered that long is a debate. sidewalks are the greatest teases to a resident. you think that they are part of your home and you have to take care of it, but they are part of the public. megyn: could the police prosecute her here? perhaps she had mental distress. any defense to what she did here? >> no, there is not. they could prosecute, but you need a willing, cooperating victim. thankfully, the reporter is not wanting to go forward. understandably, this woman's life is changing before her eyes. her husband is not committed, she has alcohol -- key house

alcohol problems. her life is in shambles right now. >> i just hope for his sake she does not remember the name that still haunts all men, the rain and bob it -- lorena bobbit. megyn: he suffered quite a bit. he may lose his seat, is he going to do any jail time? >> no, it was his first offense. he has been exonerated. megyn: no jail time for blowing a .19 and doing this to your wife? >> not at all. we have some strict rules here, but there is no penalty if you

admit wrongdoing and do all of the community service and everything else that is given to you. megyn: obviously, this guy has a problem. >> he did not reach a deal, the charges were dropped. megyn: they said he was drunk at the time. i am just saying he had a pattern. >> the constitution gives him the presumption of innocence. i know that you are concerned as a prosecutor, but he has only had one conviction. he should be all right. megyn: thank you. time for him to kiss his councilmen title goodbye. as for his wife, of course it is upsetting to become the focus of a news story, but that is no

excuse to assault a reporter. the anger was probably meant for the husband. that seems justified. . .

megyn: attack by a shark in her own backyard. a 19 year-old florida girl spending a day behind her home in st. petersburg, about 10 years from the dark -- about 10 feet from the dock. a short takes a bite of her right leg, right below the knee. luckily, her sister was nearby and pulled her out. the attack was within 3 miles of the scene of a fatal shark attack back in 2000. bill: there is cars -- calls for

a phobia. megyn: it is like my phobia of planes. there's something to be afraid of. i feel like i'm the only one who understands what we're doing. bill: all right, a memo from the joint chiefs about photos of iraqi detainees kept under wraps by the above administration -- the obama administration. jennifer griffin is life for us. what did the admiral see in the photographs? >> what really appalled him was pictures taken of detainees on the battlefield shortly after they had been interrogated at the point of capture, and he saw a lot of examples of have the handling. a lot of abuse, not torture, but a lot of beat up people and even some cases where people were killed.

that weighed on him, and that is where he decided -- so he took the unusual step to right on all of the service chiefs to say that more needs to be done to train soldiers and service members on how to handle detainees when they are captured and how to handle interrogations. bill: will these pictures go public, or not? >> absolutely not. in may, the president decided after a hearing reports that this could lead to enflaming a situation that is already very tense in the least, even leading to service members serving overseas to be retaliated against. he does not believe that these photographs should be put out there. at the same time, she called a

meeting of commanders and told them that essentially we should not take comfort in the fact that these photographs were not released. we need to do better and that is why he mulled it over for some time and then sent out this unusual memo to commanders about how they need to take stronger steps in training. megyn: by the way, we are getting a lot of mail on our court room segment. she did not bother the children. they were never seen, never fell, they had nothing to do with it. the mother was freaked out for other reasons. coming up, all-american boy turned terrorist thugs. -- thug. bill: there is something bizarre. in 3 minutes, new trends in the fashion industry.

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megyn: a new model trend is raising a few eyebrows. more and more models are bleaching their eyebrows into oblivion. the trend started in barcelona