jane: maybe this was a dry run. >> how can you press charges against a monkey? jon: i want to see the monkey mug shot. thank you for joining this hour. now it is time for "the live desk." martha: "the live desk" gets started right now. we have a number of breaking stories for you. trace: good afternoon we're live inside the fox news room. this is where the news begins. this is the national desk. covering america. you come over here, you have the foreign desk. this is the area that covers the globe. every single picture that comes into fox news channel comes in right here along the media desk. those pictures will always be in the boxes on the right-hand side of the screen. martha: and that top box, fax

confirming that a u.s. air strike very likely killed one of osama bin laden's sons. the question is whether the two of them were together when a predator drone target in an area in pakistan. in the middle box, a funeral today for beloved newsman walter cronkite those attending he is a who's who, as you would imagine, of more than half a century of journalism. you can see the crowd gathering right now. we will be showing you the pictures of this very big event. in the bottom box, they call him king james. lebron james had his representatives seizing a videotape that he did not want you to say. what happened to lebron on the court that day? we will show you. trace: we begin with bad news

for president of papaya -- with president obama. it looks like blue dog democrats are not on board. remember a few days ago when the house energy and commerce committee canceled a hearing to start marking up the bill? guess what. the committee just canceled again. house majority whip james clybourn that the august recess could be on hold >> if we leave here without doing this, no one is going to interpret our going home as listening to people. that is the headline. so, we must stay here and get this done. trace: harry reid just said that they will take their august recess. carl cameron is like for us on capitol hill. we kind of have a dispute here. nancy pelosi says that she has the votes in the house. other democrats say, not so

fast. >> as a technical matter, they have a big majority. when you add in the 153 republicans, plus the 52 blue dog democrats, there are not enough opponents yet to derail it. the question is whether or not they could get anything through committee. there is a big slowdown here. dick durbin, the no. 2 in the senate, said it was likely they would blow off the august recess. today, the majority leader harry reid has said that they will be back in september. it seems like a reasonable request. it is interesting that the democratic leadership would say, we are not going to get it done on the president's timetable. trace: the president pressured lawmakers to get something done. the answer apparently is that they are not responding. >> there has been a major breakdown in the house. not exactly a stall, but a huge

slowdown in the senate. the government energy and commerce committee essentially said on monday, we are done indefinitely. we will try to get back together on a day-to-day basis. there have not been any formally scheduled hearings. that is almost the equivalent of gridlock. on the senate side, the senate finance committee continues to work, but it is three democrats and only three republicans. those republicans are the only three that are getting a seat at the table and all of congress. only three republicans are being allowed. there is a tremendous amount of work to still be done. do not look for the house to work through its andré -- its august vacation. that is just about as unlikely as snow in august. it is probably not going to happen. trace: carl cameron, thank you.

martha: on the road once again, the president in ohio hoping to sell his health insurance reform plan. that is a relatively new phrase. he used it five times last night. >> i have also pledged that health insurance reform will not add to our deficit. i mean it. the past eight years, we saw the enactment of two tax cuts, primarily for the wealthiest americans, and a medicare prescription program, none of which were paid for. that is partly why i inherited a $1.30 trillion deficit. martha: joining me to talk about this, and that new phrase, charlie hurt, peter, and chris

wilson. gentlemen, welcome. charlie, you first. what do you make of the fact that we're hearing a lot about health insurance reform as opposed to health care reform. in these kinds of situations, words can mean a lot. >> i think it is crucial. i think what the white house is undergoing is a realization that the notion that they are going to build a whole new massive federal entitlement program -- they realize that american voters are really do not like that and it is a very scary thing. so, the white house very deftly shifted last night to talk about this health insurance reform. it does not sound like a big massive entitlement program that is going to wind up costing millions and taking the federal

budget along with it. martha: anybody who has struggled to get their health insurance company to pay for it has experienced this. let's listen to this. this is from monday. >> it even has a mayor -- even as america's families have been battered by spiraling health- care costs, health insurance companies have reaped windfall profits. martha: here we go. once again, peter, it used to be the people on wall street who were reaping those benefits. to a great extent, a lot of profits have been made in those areas. are we seeing a new focus in the health insurance companies and health insurance reform as opposed to insuring the uninsured? >> i think you are. anybody who has struggled to get something covered or call their

insurance company -- we talk about government bureaucracy. i think the analysis is correct. the white house is definitely moving over to market this as a health insurance reform effort. i think he is using the bully pulpit. i think it is an effort to rule that out. let me say one other thing about congress. you have rahm emmanuel and others -- these guys are in constant touch with the leadership on this. these conversations are taking place, even if congress is not in session martha: chris wilson, let me bring you in on this. the point that i want to get across here is what is meant when they say health insurance reform. are we seeing the white house

presenting a slightly new version of what they will find acceptable in order to have them to sign the bill? >> to revisit the campaign a little bit, it is putting lipstick on a pig. is there a difference with what barack obama was trying to do last week? the only difference is the labeling. his favorability has dropped nine points since june. the most important aspect of this is your seeing the generic ballot pull even with republicans and democrats. so, there is no difference in terms of what he is offering. he is trying to save his party. martha: let me go back to charlie. the poles have been indicating that there is a softening in terms of the nation's support for this health-care plan. my question is, is this the white house's way of presenting it in a way that says this is

not just about the guy down the street who does not have health insurance, it is about you, about all of us? >> absolutely. it is what barack obama is best at, appealing to people at that kind of level. i thought that carl cameron made a very good point in the last segment talking about the democrats in congress. they have the numbers. they could get this done. what i think terrifies them is the fact that if they ram this through, they will own it. they run the table in this town. it is not that they cannot get it done it is they are afraid they will have to pay the price. martha: that seems to be what is in the plan here. thank you very much, gentlemen. thanks to you, chris wilson.

it is always a pleasure. trace: through the crowded streets of atlanta? watch this. copps in hot pursuit of a suspect driving that white pickup truck. swerving through traffic, hitting cars, even doing a little bit of offloading. -- off-roading. they found him. the 21-year-old driver has been taken into custody and faces a number of charges. u.s. intelligence agents call him al qaeda's little player with a big name. did osama bin laden's son, saad, really die in an air strike? authorities have just released video of a horrifying train wreck in san francisco. we will show you the pictures

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martha: we are watching some of the people from the world of journalism are arriving as they head into the church in new york city for the funeral of walter cronkite. we have the video of them bringing the casket and. there is bob schieffer walking and. -- walking in and. ]. trace: what an amazing event. we will bring you highlights of that. the actual memorial service should get underway in about 45 minutes. u.s. intelligence officials say that they are 85% certain that an american air strike killed osama bin laden's son saad.

they cannot positively confirmed his death. we know that he is not the intended target of the strike. catherine herridge is following this live in washington, d.c. national intelligence is pretty sure that osama bin laden's son is dead. >> they are still seeking 1 under% confirmation, which would come through dna testing and other investigative methods. the intelligence community is still working through this process. they believe that he was collateral damage in one of these strikes. in other words, he was not significant enough to be considered the primary target. trace: why not just come out and say, we got him? >> if he is dead, it is a significant killed because he has toan important name.

al qaeda has announced that martyrdom -- i understand that there might be a shift in tactics by al qaeda. the leadership has become more savvy. earlier today, i was able to get a hold of this list. these are 10 operatives that have been killed in the last year as a result of this campaign. they range from the man who was the alleged planner of a bomb plot that was targeting the u.s., as well as the operatives that were blamed on the on blast at the marriott hotel in pakistan. it has become a successful campaign. trace: is there a belief among the u.s. intelligence community that saad bin laden was a

successor to his father? >> he had spent a number of years under house arrest, but he had a pretty free rein. he came to pakistan at the end of last year. there is not a lot known about osama bin laden's children. we do have one graphic. on the left, you can see hamza bin laden, who is perhaps one of the more significant. his mother is a saudi. that is an old picture. he would probably be in his late teens at this point. trace: as we get more information on the story, we will queue of who would minute by minute. breaking developments, log onto our website. the story is right there on the

home page. any updates will be updated almost instantaneously. martha: some terrifying video came into fox today. it chose the moment that the two commuter trains collided in the station at san francisco. this is a surveillance video you can see the reaction of the people in that station. it came from multiple camera angles. the moving train slammed right into the park one. what a crash. investigators say that the train had just been switched from the automatic mode to the manual mode. when it is in the manual mode, the emergency brakes do not kick in. the transit agency is now reinforcing a new rule. they say no switching to manual mode without waiting for authorization. >> we issued a bulletin.

we're committed to doing everything we can to make the system as safe as possible. martha: 38 people were injured in that crash. the ntsb has ruled out mechanical problems. the operator said that he blacked out right before the crash happened. trace: you see people on the platform. trains are just coming. you are not going to believe the assignment that we have sent our middle east correspondent. what in the world are you doing? >> i am hanging out on the age -- on the edge of a sink hole. sometimes, these things just swallow people up.

if we don't act, medical bills will wipe out their savings. if we don't act, she'll be denied coverage because of a pre-existing condition. and he won't get the chemotherapy he needs. if we don't act, health care costs will rise 70%. and he'll have to cut benefits for his employees. but we can act. the president and congress have a plan to lower your costs and stop denials for pre-existing conditions. it's time to act.

[captioning made possible by fox news channel] captioned by the national captioning institute --www.ncicap.org-- martha: this is breaking news at this hour. harry reid has come out and basically said, it is not going to happen before august 30 he is saying that the earliest time we will see action will be september. and has been very important to the president to get this done before the august recess. as carl cameron pointed out, that is highly unlikely. they are going to wait until september. in the middle box, remember the news about how mcdonald's did during very well during the early stages of the recession? now, this might be an indication that things are picking up

slightly. we have seen an 8% decline in business for mcdonald's. that could be a good sign for the economy. in the bottom box, we're looking live at outer space. there was a bit of a problem yesterday with some rising levels inside the space suit. they had to cut that a little bit short. trace: i am glad they brought that full screen. what in the world is in the bottom box there? i hope they brought that full screen. they did. we do a lot of digging around here, but not to this level. sinkholes have become a growing concern near the dead sea. it is known in hebrew as the sea of salt. we have an in-depth look about how biggest problem is >>.

>> here is how the problem got started. the dead sea is very salty. it used to come of all the way up here. it has shrunk by 1/3. now fresh water comes in. let me show you what we're talking about as the water gets beneath the ground. all of this ground is super soph. you can see a lot of a dumping down on my head. the water soaks down in here. down below here is all of the small table. the water salt -- soaks into the salt and opens up these huge underground caves. some hiker comes along, has no idea what he is getting into and walks across the salt soil. the same thing is happening for

roads and campgrounds. it is having a big impact on the economy. it is a natural phenomenon. ultimately, it was caused by people. trace: that is massive. how many of these are we talking about? 3000? it seems like that would take up the entire area of the country. >> it takes up the entire coastline of the dead sea. 3000 have opened up. martha: how incredible is a that we can have a conversation with him when he is sent -- standing at the bottom of a sinkhole in israel? trace: and you just sit there and you followed and you followed. it is very therapeutic. it is good to see you, mike.

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about premier facilities like the cleveland clinic as a model for fixing the nation's system. trace: back to you momentarily. breaking news at the pentagon. jennifer griffin will update us on prisoner abuse. >> the chairman of the joint chiefs has written a controversial memo that we have gotten our hands on in which he asks his commanders to do more to prevent detainee abuse. he saw hundreds of photos taken between 2001 and 2006. he does not believe the photos should be released. trace: to boston now, the sauce -- the subject is funding for urban or rural hospitals. >> exactly. congressional leaders working toward an overhaul of the health-insurance system are worried that the ultimate reform efforts will put their hospitals back home at risk.

federal funding generally goes to big city hospitals or teaching facilities. in all matters about jobs as well. this is a real sticking point. it could impair negotiations. trace: that is brand new information at the bottom of the hour. martha: right now in america, there are hundreds of catholic hospitals treating about 5 million patients a year as congress debates the future of health care, it raises questions about how this bill, that would involve a lot of public funding might impact religiously affiliated hospitals, including whether or not this legislation could force catholic hospitals to perform abortions, which are legal in this country. it could force some of the hospitals to close. shannon bream has been looking into this.

>> imagine if you have to come to this choice. either provide abortions or lose out on the funding that you need to continue operating as a hospital, medical care facility, or even as a solo dr. that would be very distressing. in the u.s., there are nearly 1000 catholic hospitals that have treated 90 million patients over the years. leaders say, we totally understand that there needs to be health care reform. we are greatly concerned that if abortion is included as a basic health care benefit, something that these groups will not provide, they can effectively be shut out of providing medical care. >> if abortion becomes a basic benefit, that means that anybody who does not provide abortion becomes a second-class citizen. boo frickity hoo -- it means that you are not going to be valued as a member. >> if you were shut out from

those members, would dry up the dollars you need? hospitals are worried that it would phase out hospitals and health care as we know it. a democratic congressman is trying to introduce an amendment that would exclude abortion from any kind of government-run health care system. >> unless you specifically put these exclusions in there or limitations on reproductive rights, the courts have ruled that if the legislation is silent -- this bill will supersede all of our health-care laws. >> he is saying, i have bipartisan support for this and i have the support of pro-life and pro-choice communities. we want to move ahead with this amendment. he has also said, i have the votes to bring the health care debate to a grinding halt if you do not allow me to put up this amendment. he says he is determined to do that. martha: shannon bream, thank you very much. trace: the abortion controversy is an aspect we have not heard a

lot about. with us is the president of the national pro-life religious counsel. the word abortion is never mentioned in there. people across the country are, what is this? >> it certainly does. the fact that the word is is precisely the problem for us is because unless congress explicitly excludes coverage for abortion in health care reform, we know from legislative and judicial history that it will be considered to be included and mandatory. trace: a lot of people would ask, why is a portion even part of this bill? why is it even a part -- why would you included in the bill at all? >> its should be excluded altogether. that is the point we're making. abortion is not health care. what diseased as abortion tour besides saving the mother's life? it is the most common surgery in

america right now. we know it is happening. we have powerful forces in america wanting to expand access to abortion. let's not hijack this very legitimate effort at health-care reform. trace: is there a concern about the phrasing of this? we hear the president use phrasing like reproductive care. so, the freezing here is very important. >> there is no secret about the fact that people like the president and like hillary clinton and the entire abortion lobby are including abortion when they use phrases like reproductive health care and comprehensive care. we know that is what they mean to include. trace: all the polls show that the majority of americans -- some polls say the vast majority of americans are against federally funded abortion. >> we're seeing that from the public reaction right now.

we're dealing with people from coast to coast who are outraged that is very legitimate debate should be used by some to advance abortion rights. americans do not want that. if anything, americans want more reasonable restrictions on abortion. trace: thank you. martha: pro-choice lawmakers say that there will not be federal funding. pro lifers say ban it just to make sure. members of congress are using this debate to pitch their view. one of the bill's co-sponsors joins us right now tim ryan is a democrat from ohio. it is good to have you here. >> good to be with you. >martha: you call yourself a pro-life congressman. is that correct? >> i am. martha: i say that because i know you have had a little bit of push back on this bill from some pro lifers who claim that

you would not be supporting this bill if he were truly one of them. explain that for us. >> i voted for the ban on partial birth abortion. i voted for parental consent on abortion. i voted against public funding for abortion. i have a very clear pro-life voting record along with rev. jim wallace. the new fall line in the abortion debate is, are you for birth control or not? if using providing access to poor women, to reduce the number of unintended pregnancies and therefore reduce abortions, you are on one side. the traditional pro-life groups are on the other side. they do not believe in contraception. martha: hear what you're saying. how do you feel about the fact that there may be some situations where catholic hospitals may be put in a

situation where they have to pay for abortions for the uninsured because that is a legal procedure in this country? >> that is not going to be the case. we have a conscience clause that is a catholic hospitals or religious hospitals that have some kind of conscience objection to doing any kind of abortion proceedings are exempted from the law. that will be in the health care reform bill. we're beginning to negotiate -- i sent a letter to speaker policy last night along with 3 or four others saying that we do not want any federal funding to be used to support this. martha: what is the support for that? do you feel confident there is a majority that will make sure if that conscience clause is still in their and that no federal funding will ever go toward an abortion? >> yes. this health reform bill will include a conscience clause and it will include a ban on federal funds being used for abortions.

i think that is the way it will happen did it will not pass. the bottom line is, abortions are performed -- 57% of abortions are performed on those under the level of poverty. they do not have access to preventative health care. if we're really serious about reducing the number of abortions, we need to make sure that poor women have access to contraception. that is what the health reform bill will provide. martha: good to have you here. trace: the secretary respond by saying that the rogue nuclear nation has no friends in the world community our own james rosen sat down with her in thailand. we told you about that kid in summer camp that dunked on lebron james and that somehow

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trace: in the top box, a live look at the funeral services under way for walter cronkite. we will dig in and out of that for the rest of this hour. in the middle box, vice president joe biden is overseas in pretty much out of sight for much of the health-care debate this week. he is meeting with the president of georgia. in the bottom box, why can't they just forget about it? both arrested as part of a sweeping corruption probe. another deputy mayor and a local assembly men also arrested, along with several local religious leaders. all of them are being linked to

an international money laundering ring. martha: can you believe that? someone said, i think your mayor is on this list. trace: in chicago, they are saying, can you believe those people in new jersey? that is what they are saying in chicago. martha: pressure mounting on north korea over its nuclear program. secretary of state hillary clinton saying that the rogue regime has "no friends left in the world community to shield it from sanctions." north korea responding with direct shots to her intellect. north korea issued just one of the topics. here is part of their fascinating interview. take a look. >> you testified back in april that it was impossible, if not

impossible that north korea will return to the six party talks. >> i have been around long enough to know what the north koreans might say today. >> you say that the biggest national security threat [unintelligible] how close has ever come to happening? >> we have reports of nuclear material going missing -- >> where? it is not necessarily an imminent danger? >> not that i'm aware of. it is a danger that lurks in the back of our minds all the time. >> i want to ask you about the controversy involving speaker pelosi and the cia? the you find it plausible that the central intelligence agency would mislead the speaker of the house or any other high-ranking

member of congress? would they ever mislead you? >> certainly from the perspective of someone who was in the senate, the intelligence was unfortunately very compartmentalized. serving on the arms services committee did not get you access to the material present to the intelligence committee. i am not going to speculate or enter into hypothetical comment. there will apparently be some kind of inquiry and analysis. we will see where that leads. >> should the cia be in the business of assassinating terrorists overseas? >> there are rules about that. i would like to leave it to the cia to interpret them. >> why do you find it so difficult to just answer if you have a future in elective politics? >> i want to be clear that i do not see such a future for myself.

>> you can assure president obama and and use me as the vehicle to do that you would never mount a primary challenge? >> i have no inclination. he will be reelected overwhelmingly because of the great job that he is doing. trace: they also called for a school girl. it was almost an urban legend, but not anymore. prove that a college sophomore drove and dunked on nba superstar, lebron james. >> oh, my god. trace: show it to us. it is kind of far away. the 20-year-old was invited to his camp. he drives through the paint,

throws it down right over king james. there it is again. one of lebron's biggest sponsors confiscated the tape. apparently, it was not the only copy. it ignited a firestorm. nike was trying to protect the image of their flagship player. can you imagine that? martha: i'm sure that his family and teammates watched it over and over again. congratulations. today, there are final tributes going out right now for walter cronkite, as hundreds gathered to say goodbye to the revered journalists. he is such a legend. this is an interesting fact. he was a huge lumber of space

and all things space related. we'll be right back. . u5+.qçwwçñcçñwñ

>> from dallas,, texas, president kennedy died 38 minutes ago. trace: legendary cbs newsman walter cronkite. today, family, friends, and colleagues say their final farewells. among the speakers, andy rooney, and walter cronkite's son.

he interviewed the biggest names of the century, dominating the media, called the most trusted man in america. you worked with walter cronkite for 25 years as the chief diplomatic correspondent at cbs news. it is a huge tribute. we are talking about 50 years to 60 years of journalism. >> he was an extraordinary die. there's no question about that. i have a strong feeling that walter is probably propped up on one elbow and decilliosaying enh already purity was that kind of reporter with intense curiosity. he was a marvelous and command. he was the best anchormen. martha: i heard somebody say

that they worked with him almost every day, a producer of his. and in all those years, some of his feelings about things became a little better known. i never knew whether he was a republican or democrat. >> that is probably right. i would have guessed he was a democrat, but i did not know it. we never talked politics. i was the diplomatic correspondent and walter would ask me about diplomatic stories. if you have a very good story, you could call him up to a minute or two before air, get through all the executive producers, and say walter, this is what i have just learned, what do you think? he would think for a second, and that he was a, you are the lead of the show. martha: i think all banchors should have that kind of power. we are just looking at tom

brokaw. it is a who's who at the church. i could go on and on. trace: walter cronkite was our topic of the day. what celestial body is named after him? the 6318 cronkite. it is roughly the size of pikes peak in colorado. breaking news in just crossing on roethlisberger. he was accused of sexual assaults in las vegas. he is about to make a statement. his first comments are coming up restaurant inspired dishes with long grain rice and garden greens is it love? or is it fancy feast?

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[captioning made possible by fox news channel] captioned by the national captioning institute --www.ncicap.org-- martha: this is the "live desk." i am martha maccallum. trace: i am trace gallagher. in the top box, ben roethlisberger is expected to speak any moment now on allegations that he sexually assaulted a casino worker. the victim claims it happened at a lake tahoe casino one year ago. roethlisberger has yet to say anything about this. his lawyer denies the allegations. we will bring them to you as soon as it happens. in the middle box, admiral mike mullen, the first top military commander to speak out over the democrats and republicans -- over the detainees photos.

he said he was appalled. in bottom box, brand new developments in the case of a confrontation between an oklahoma state trooper and a paramedic. the police department has taken action against the trooper. martha: there are strong signs that the hunt for leaders of al- qaeda has claimed a very high- profile target. this time it appears that one of osama bin laden's children was killed. his son, saad bin laden. the attack took place earlier this year in a troubled region near the afghan border. catherine herridge, what can you tell us about this? and about whether or not he was hit? >> u.s. officials believe he was killed in the strike earlier this year in the tribal areas of pakistan. i was told that they believe

saad bin laden was not the primary target of the strike. he was collateral damage. they are not saying they are 100% certain that he is dead. they do see strong signs. martha: what do we know about saad bin laden? how much of a player was he? >> it is a mixed picture. some officials describe him as a small-time operative that had a big-time game. he was significant enough that in january of this year, the treasury department identified him as someone who would have his assets frozen along with three other al-qaeda operatives because of their alleged roles in terrorism. in 2001, he facilitated the travel of bin laden's family from afghanistan to iran.

it was part of a small group that was involved in managing the terrorist organization from iran. he spent several years under what the iranians described as house arrest. he left on the assumption it would be safe for him to this has become a safe haven for the networked. martha: catherine herridge, thank you very much. trace: this could be an enormous development. for more on this, ambassador john bolton, the former u.s. ambassador to the united nations. how close do you believe that saad bin laden was to his father run this strike happened? >> it is hard to say in terms of physical proximity, but he was killed by the printer that catherine herridge mentioned. i think the political significance, the symbolism of killing osama's son is very significant. it shows up the hunt goes on.

trace: what is your assessment of the possibility of saad bin laden becoming successor to his father? >> i think osama bin laden had 18 sons. some of which had been killed. it is hard to know. it is not transparent organization. his connection with iran is also very significant. these ties among islamic extremists remain. there things we need to know more about. trace: what does this psychologically mean to al- qaeda? what is the mindset? is it a revenge issue? what does this mean to the terrorist organization? >> the fact that these predators strikes have been decimating al-qaeda leadership and added to the death of one of bin laden's own sons has had to affect them.

at the same time, our military is killing this leadership from the air. it shows is a long war. you have to keep up the pressure. as the news gets around the region, i think it will have a significant impact. trace: you talked about the skeptics. is this not proof positive that we need to add pressure? this is the time to say, these guys are on the run. we just got the son of the most wanted terrorist in the world. >> it is certainly not the time to let pressure up. for those who are pre their hands about the aborted cia assassination program -- i think most americans was 80 to attack us and killed 3000 americans and others on september 11. why is it taking so long to get them? i think it will have a domestic impact as well. trace: osama bin laden, still

alive? >> my sense is he is in use in the border area between pakistan and afghanistan. we just need to dig up our efforts to find him and the other top leaders of al-qaeda. trace: john bolton, thank you martha: mart. martha: president obama is about to hold a town hall meeting on health care. money is a big worry for folks in shaker heights. ohio has been hard-hit by the recession. it is a key swing state. mike amenable joins us. what do we expect from this meeting from president obama? shaker heights is a fairly affluent area. why did they pick this as a venue? >> as you mentioned, he has hit

health-care reform 11 times in 11 days. we do not expect the script to be much different. we will be levied for subtle changes. shaker heights is a cleveland suburb. it seems to be a logical place, close to the clinic he visited, and try to make his case to them in ohio and also to a national audience. martha: the mayo clinic have some criticisms of the plan. why is the cleveland clinic such a focus for the white house? >> the president gave us a preview last night. taken listen. >> i will be visiting your home town tomorrow to go to the cleveland clinic to show why their system works so well. part of the reason it works so well is that they have set up a

system where patient care is the number-one concern, not bureaucracy and what forms have to be filled out. those are changes the american people want to see. >> the cleveland clinic model is putting patients first. better health care does not necessarily mean more expensive health-care. martha: any surprises expected today? >> you never know. we are told that 70% of the audience is people from the general public. if they throw out a wild card question, that could be a surprise. he will be introduced by a retired teamster who is struggling to pay for his health-care benefits. that is how the event will start. we will see if there are any obama questions in the q&a -. trace: president obama recently decided to prevent the release

of more photos from iran showing abuse of detainees in u.s. custody to the head of the joint chiefs, admiral mike mullins has now seen them. you will not believe what he thinks. it is a fox news exclusive you do not want to mess. ben roethlisberger are you receiving a payout from a legal settlement or annuity over 10 or even 20 years? call imperial structured settlements. the experts at imperial can convert your long-term payout into a lump sum of cash today.

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trace: in the top box, pittsburgh steelers quarterback ben roethlisberger is responding to allegations of sexual assault. a woman is accusing him of rape. broth as perverse as he is innocent and will not fight this battle and the media -- roethlisberger says he is innocent and will not fight this battle in the media. in the middle box, gas prices are still falling to the national averages $2.46. that is down more than four cents from last week's. in bottom box, shaker heights,

ohio. we are waiting for president obama at a town hall style debate on health care, which needs those blue dog boats. martha: classified code those of detainees provoking outrage at the highest levels of the pentagon. admiral mike mullins says that he is appalled by the treatment of iraqis captured on the battlefield. president obama agreed to give those photos the secret to protect u.s. troops from litigation in the field. jennifer griffin, what did admiral moullen see? why the strong reaction? >> these were taken from 2001 to 2006, about 1000 totals produce all signs of severe

abuse. some of the detainees had been killed. these were taken during battlefield interrogations'. he was upset when use of these photos. we're told he was appalled. he called on his commander and the service chiefs to do more to train those who are taking on detainees on the battlefield. martha: it is a fascinating story. it raises a lot of questions about what is in those photos and what took place. why do using she decided to release this statement at this time? >> it was explained to me that

this was a crisis of conscience. the way of what he should do about it. at some point, there was a meeting of commanders at the pentagon. he said, the president decided not to release these photos. i agree with that decision, but he said we should not take comfort in the fact that these photos were not released. there were not something they should be proud of. he was not calling for the photos to be released, but he wanted the message to get out to the forces and to the commanders that more needed to be done to take care that these kind of abuses do not happen again. martha: is there any sense of how widespread this acts were, and whether the perpetrators were prosecuted? >> these were two hundred separate cases, but hundreds of photos were taken of each case.

we knew that from the aclu lawsuit dallas filed -- the aclu lawsuit that was filed. from what i understand, all those involved in these cases either have been prosecuted or are in the process of being prosecuted now. martha: thank you. trace: we have very revealing brand new fox news polls showing some big changes. can you hear it? we will have the roethlisberger for you. and the president's job performance and the debate over health-care. you have to see the changes in the numbers coming up next. @=h has progress taken us to a better place?

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trace: we have a brand new fox news opinion dynamics polls with some big changes. the results reflecting what americans think about the biggest issues of the day, including health care and the economy. the director of public opinion research for fox news. wow. we have a lot to get through. >> he is down to 54% approval. that is down eight points since last month. that comes mainly from independents. he is down 12 points among that group and 11 points down among republicans.

and 11 points down since he took office. this is a new low and a new high for disapproval. people said he does not have a clear plan for the economy. he does not have a clear plan on health care and this is what you see. martha: take a look at the next one. we have some specifics here. health care and how everyone is interpreting this plan. if health-care reform is passed, what will happen to your taxes? 74% who make under $50,000 said it will go up. 84% of $50,000 and over. >> people oppose the health care plan that is being proposed on capitol hill. 8 in 10 americans think their taxes will go up if this reform plan passes. trace: health care for family. >> we asked what would happen to

the quality of care you receive. half of americans think it would get worse. that is also bad because people think the quality of the health care they currently receive is good or excellent. and so they're happy with the way things are. martha: during the election cycle, health care was one of the main things. this was one of the top issues that they really cared about. now you have a president who's coming into office and says i want to fix it. people do not want it fixed. >> we put the two issues head- to-head. by far, people said you should be fixing the economy. this is not the top priorities today. that goes for democrats and republicans. martha: this goes to the issue -- some of obama's critics say he is taking on too much at

once. >> that is not what they wanted to be focusing on. and you do not have a plan and the plan that you have will raise my taxes and give me better care. trace: do we have time for another one? they say, if you pass this plan, over 80% say you have to go by it, too. 92% say you have to read the bill before you pass it. americans across the board agree on that. >> thank you very much. let's bring in bill sammon. you heard what dana said. the numbers are astonishing. they think stimulus was fully

once and health care is fully twice -- fool me twice. >> it is a big reason why the president's job approval or at a new low. whether it is the concern the health care will cost too much or whether it is the concern a stimulus has not worked. we're still in a deep recession. people losing jobs by the tens of thousands per day. the other two things that ever he here is the same thing we saw with bush. we may be seeing the beginnings of obama tfatigue. we have short attention fans. overexposures possible with president obama. he gave his fourth prime-time press conference last night. that as many as bush has given

in his entire eight years. he has given more interviews than any other reason president. there is the risk of overexposure. people get tired of any president after a while. martha: i always struggle with how much impact any president can actually have on the economy. approval numbers almost always go in tandem with how the economy is doing. you are stuck. you get a good step of the economy is doing well. when it is not doing well, how much does he really have to do? >> that's a great point. the president gets a disproportionate share of the curedit.

with this particular session, i think people are holding obama more accountable because he has said that in order to fix the recession, we have to do it in directly. we have to fix health care and we have to fix cap and trade. that will result in the economy getting fixed. if you look at the results of this poll, the very top priority is to fix the economy. martha: it has been a very tough sell. people are not really buying that. trace: i think the most high- grade thing for me is that the president hit the campaign and now and says if you make a certain amount of money in your taxes are not going up. and no one believes that. >> yes, and it is striking. he said only couples making more than $1 million will be affected

by this. the public does not buy it. eventually that will start bleeding into my category and we will all get soaked by higher taxes. that is one reason my support for the health-care proposal has fallen so dramatically. >> that has got to be so disappointed for the administration to hammer in on this idea, and just to have the majority of americans say i just do not buy that. >> it is a reminder of the finite nature of political capital. you have the first year when you got the honey fromoon. he is a lot of this capital with the stimulus bill. most people do not view the stimulus bill as having worked. they're not like to give the second chance. it is not looking for him.

martha: he had so much popularity coming in. if history is a guy, he will continue that later. the notion was that he had to do everything now because its capital and strong at this point. trying to do everything now is what has damaged his cabinet. the strategy backfired. rahm emanuel and other said it was to flood the zone with these great initiatives so that you would overwhelm the opposition in congress and there would have no choice. it has had the opposite effect. people say you are trying to do too much, too soon. the president's approval ratings are in the mid-50s. his predecessor once had approval ratings of 90%, the highest in history.

i am not sure i see an on the horizon that will cause his approval ratings to o spike up. trace: we are waiting for the president to speak in ohio. we also have the ben roethlisberger sound byte. the commerce and energy committee has said -- harry reid says we are setting the august recess. >> it is sort of gradual. no, we are not getting it passed by august. we are having a low rate of expectations. one congressman says we do not really have to get this done

before the recess. and another says, we can come back in september. some of this was coming up before his press conference. he is fighting against a very overwhelming tide right now. the conventional wisdom says this is not going to happen. one to go into recess and people have time to pick over it even more, it will be harder to pass it went you come back. trace: bill sammon, thank you. his arrest sparked a national debate. was racial profiling a factor in the arrest of a prominent harvard professor? >we are going to shake her heights because president obama is coming out. the president is shaking hands in shaker heights.

he was at a cleveland medical clinic earlier today. he was on to them about his health care plan. they have been very supportive. the mayo clinic is also excited. the president is very hard to change the people's opinions on this. he will try to do that once again today. >> 11 dats [laughter] he has spoken 11 days about health care. it has not budged many of those blue dog democrats. there is a huge disparity. >> thank you. thank you. thank you.

hello spher, shaker heights, oh. it is great to be here. first of all, please give rick and a round of applause. [applause] some special guests -- the governor of the great state of ohio, ted strickland is in the house ♪ [applause] 30 is rather treat your state treasurer -- there he is. your secretary of state is here. your state treasurer is here. the mayor of the great city of cleveland is here.

shaker heights mayor is here. [applause] shaker heights school superintendent is here. [applause] not here, but a couple of my favorite people, congressman fudge and sharon brown. they cannot be here today do they have a lot of work to do in washington. it is good to be back in the great state of ohio. [applause] i know there are those who like to report on the back-and-forth in washington, but my only concern is the people who sent us to washington, the family feeling the pain of this recession. the folks in that across this country lost jobs, savings, and

health insurance. the citizens who divided the senate and the skeptics who went to the polls to demand change. change was the cause of my campaign and because of my presidency. when my administration came into office, we were facing the worst economy since the great depression. weaver losing an average of 700,000 jobs per month. hundreds of thousands of ohio people felt that pain firsthand. our financial system was on the verge of collapse, many families and small businesses could not get the credit they need. experts were warning that there was a serious chance that our economy could slip into a depression. because of the action we took in the first weeks, we have been able to pull our economy back

from the brink. now that the most immediate danger has passed, there are some who question those steps. let me report to you exactly what we have done. we passed a two-year recovery act, and an immediate tax cut for 95% of americans and small businesses. [applause] extended unemployment insurance and health coverage for those who lost their jobs in this recession. [applause] to provide emergency assistance to states like ohio to prevent even deeper layoffs of police officers and firefighters and teachers and other essential personnel. [applause] at the same time, we took it needed steps to keep the banking system from collapsing and get

credit flowing again. to help response will homeowners hurt by falling home prices to stay in their homes. the second phase, we are investing in projects to repair and upgrade roads and bridges, water systems, and clean energy initiatives throughout ohio and all across the country. these are projects that create good jobs and bring lasting improvements to our communities. there's no doubt that the steps we have taken have helped stave off a much deeper disaster. even greater job losses. they saved, helped, and created jobs and helped put the brakes on this deficit and recession. for the millions of americans looking for work, for those who are struggling in this economy, a full recovery cannot come soon

enough. i hear from you at town meetings like uthis. i read your letters. the stories i hear are the first thing i think about in the morning and the lasting thing about at night. it is the focus of my attention every waking minute of every day. it took us years to get into this mess and it will take more than a few months to dig our way out of it. [applause] but i want to promise you this, ohio, we will get there. we're doing everything in our power to get our people back to work. [applause] i love you back. [applause] will also have to do more than just rescued this economy from recession. we need to address the

fundamental problems that allowed to this crisis to happen. otherwise, we would be guilty of the same short-term thing in that got us into this mess. that is what washington has done for decades. we put things off. that is what we need to change. now is the time to rebuild the economy stronger than before, strong enough to compete in the 21st century, strong enough to avoid the waves of blue and bust that had time and time again unleased misfortune on middle- class families across the country. that is why we are building a new energy economy that will unleash innovative potential and entry millions of new jobs -- and create millions of new jobs to be transferrintransforming or educational system. [applause]

we are pursuing health insurance reform so that every american has access to quality, affordable health-care. [applause] i want to talk about health care for a second. reform is not just about the nearly 46 million americans without health insurance. i realize with all the charges and the criticism, many americans will be wondering, how does my business stand to benefit? what is in this for me? i want to answer those questions briefly. if you have health insurance, the reform we are proposing will give you more security. you just heard brrick's story.

you have the option to keep the coverage that you have some of folks say we will be forcing government run health care. that is not true. it will give the insurance companies out of your health care decisions, too. [applause] by stopping in sugasururs from e game who they cover and holding them to a higher standard for what they cover. [applause] you will not have to worry about receiving a surprise bill in the mail because we will limit the about your insurance company forces you to pay all of your own pocket. [applause] you will not have to worry about pre-existing conditions because

never again will anyone in america be denied coverage because of previous illness or injury. [applause] [applause] you will not have to worry about losing coverage if you lose or leave your job. every american who need insurance club access to affordable plans -- every american who need insurance will have access to affordable plans. if you run a small business and you are looking to provide insurance for your employees, they will be able to choose a plan from this as well. i have heard from small businesses trying to do the

right thing, but year after year, premiums grew higher and choices run limited. that is true in ohio. you are a taxpayer concerned about deficits, -- understand that i am concerned about deficits, too. before him to office, washington enacted two large cuttax cuts, added a prescription drug for medicare, all without paying for it -- and funded two bourse. they did not pay for it. the national debt doubled. we were handed a $1.3 trillion deficit when we walk to the door. one we necessarily have to add to the short term to deal with this financial crisis. i have to say that folks have a lot of nerve twho helped us get

into this fiscal hole, and then start talking about is the responsibility. [applause] i am always a little surprised that people do not have a little more shame. about having treatecreated the e amount. 14 figures is another topic. -- pointing fingers is another topic through the truth is, i am now president. [applause] i am responsible. together, we have to restore a sense of responsibility.

we have to do what businesses and families do. we have to cut all the things that we do not need in order to pay for the things that we do. i will not sign a health insurance reform. i will not sign it if the reform as a one dime to our deficit over the next decade. i mean what i say. [applause] now, we have estimated that 2/3 of the cost of reform could be paid for by reallocating money that is already in the system. it is being wasted in federal health-care reform. it can be paid for not with new revenues, just west taking money that is not spent wisely and moving it into things that will make people healthy.

we spend more than $100 billion iand a lot more in subsidies tht go to insurance companies. they do nothing to improve care for our seniors. we ought to take that money and use it to treat people and cover people, not to line the pockets of insurers. i am pleased congress has already embraced these proposals. there currently bargains for proposals -- they are currently working through proposals to finance the remaining cost. it will not be paid for on the backs of middle-class families. [applause] in addition to making sure that this plan does not add to the deficit in the short term, the bill i side was also slow the growth of health-care costs in the long run.

i just came from the cleveland clinic. i met some of the doctors for achieving incredible results for the patients. there is important work being done there, as was the university hospitals and mental health. the clinic has one of the best held information technology systems in the country. they can track patients and their progress tr. it means they can provide better care for patients. they do not have to duplicate tests. they can help patients manage diabetes and emphysema by coordinating with doctors and nurses in the hospital and in the community. they actually have some of the lowest cost for the best care.

that is the interesting thing about our health care system. better care produces lower, not higher, expenses because medicare leads to fewer everror. you do not have to fill all the same form a dozen times. medical professionals agree to treat people. patients are provided preventive care earlier, like mammograms and physicals to avoid more expensive and invasive treatments later. our proposals include a variety of reforms that would save money and improve care. one of the nation's largest organizations have embraced our plan. doctors and nurses finally are free to give patients the best care, not just the most expensive. we also want to create an independent group of doctors and medical experts to eliminate

waste and inefficiency in medicare. it could save even more money. overall, our proposals will improve the quality of care for seniors, save them thousands of dollars on prescription drugs. that is why aarp has endorsed our reform efforts as well. [applause] the fact is, lowering cost is essential for families and businesses in ohio and all across the country. take the ohio example. over the past few years, the premiums have risen nine times faster than wages. as we meet today kellogg, we are seen double-digit -- we meet today, there are double digits. there are reports of insurers raising rates 28% and as much as

56% in michigan. if we do not act, this is just a preview of coming attractions. that is a future you cannot afford. that is a future america cannot afford. we spend $1 of every $6 on health care. that is on track to double in the next three decades. the biggest force is a skyrocketing cost of medicare and medicaid. small businesses struggled to cover workers while competing with large businesses. large businesses struggle to cover workers while competing in the global economy. we will never know the full cost of dreams put on hold. the small businesses never funded because of the fear of being without insurance are having to bid for a policy on your own. -- having to pay for a policy on your own. in pursuit of this reform we forced to the consensus that has

never before been reached in the history of this country. senators and representatives and five committees are borne in on legislation. we have already. produced a. health-care reform -- three have already been introduced. hospitals have agreed to bring down costs. drug companies have agreed to make prescription drugs more affordable for seniors. the american nurses association and their medical association, representing millions of nurses and doctors, have announced their support for the reform. we have never been closer to achieving quality affordable health care for all americans. at the same time, there are those who would seek to delay or defeat reform. is that the air conditioning? [laughter] [applause] that is good. you can still hear me.

we have one republican strategist who told his party that even though they may want to compromise, it is better politics to go for the tell. -- go for the kill. others have said is about breaking me. it is really the american be the more been broken by increasing costs and declining coverage. [applause] the republican party chair is seeking to stall our efforts. he recently went so far as to say that health insurance reform was happening too soon. first, let me be clear. if there's not a deadline in washington, nothing happens. nothing ever happens. we just heard today that we may not be able to get the bill out of the senate by the end of august or the beginning of august.

that is okay. i just want people to keep working. just keep working. [applause] i want a bill to get out of the committees and then i want the bill to go to the floor. then i want the bill to be reconciled. then i want to sign a bill. [applause] and i wanted done by the end of this year. i want this done by the fall. [applause] whenever i hear people say that it is happening too soon, i think that is odd. we have been talking about health-care reform since the days of harry truman. how could it be too soon? i do not think it is too soon for the families who have seen their premiums rise faster than wages year after year. it is not too soon for the businesses. it is not too soon for taxpayers

asked to close a widening deficits. reform may be coming too soon for some in washington. it is not soon enough for the american people. we do not shirk from a challenge. [applause] we can get this done. people keep saying that this is really hard and why are you taking this on? america does not shirk from a challenge. we're reminded of that earlier this week when americans from all over the world celebrated the 40th anniversary of the moment the astronauts walked on the surface of the moon. kennedy had set the goal of nearly a decade earlier. there were times when people said it was foolish and impossible.

president kennedy understood and the american people said about approving what this nation is capable of doing. there are those who see our failure to address stubborn problems as a sense that somehow our best days are behind us and we cannot do big things anymore. i believe that this generation, like generations past, stand ready to defy the skeptics and the naysayers. we can once again summoned as american spirit, rescued our economy, rebuild it, and we can achieve quality affordable health care for every single american. that is what we are called upon to do. that is what we will do with your help, ohio. [applause] with your help. all right. [applause] trace: president obama rapid up

a town hall meeting in cleveland, ohio. let's bring in a congressman from louisiana and a member of the house ways and means committee. he is also a heart surgeon. he knows a lot about this issue. the president has had 11 of these events about health care in 11 days. the poll numbers are going down. the blue dog democrats are not been won over. it is just not resonated the way he anticipated. why? >> it is important to recognize that all americans want a good health care reform. republicans want healthcare reform. we have some good ideas. the problem is that the bill that is before us in the house has a number of flaws. it does not help control the costs for american families and small businesses. in fact, it is going to add to the deficit and potentially

cause an increase in taxes for many american families and businesses. trace: that is the thing, congressman. we just had a fox news opinion dynamics poll. people think their taxes are the way up. the president has hammered home that point time and time again. people are not buying this. >> that is right. the president just gave a soaring speech, campaign style rhetoric, but we have to look at the bill before us. i believe there are a number of problems. it is clear that taxes are going up. it is clear that it will add to the deficit. republicans have good ideas on how we can build from what is already working. we have the finest doctors and nurses and hospitals and world. people come from all over the world to the united states for

health care. doctors and nurses come here to train driblets build on that and make it a better system. martha: i am wondering why your during on capitol hill about how this is going. we are seeing a lot coming across the buyers that there's a lot of infighting among the democrats. what are you hearing from the other side of the aisle? >> i have had a number of conversations. there's a broad disagreement among the number of factions in the democratic party in the house. it is not just the blue dogs. there are a number of new members were concerned about the level of taxation in the bill. it does not have the kind of reforms that are necessary to maintain quality yet. bring down the. -- yet bring down the costs. i believe americans want a bipartisan solution. i would just say to the president, get us all around the table.

there are people on both sides of the aisle with the expertise to reform health care in a wave that will make the american people crowd. martha: a lot of people here use baking and they know you are a heart surgeon -- a lot of people the year you speaking and i know you are a heart surgeon. the ama supports this plan. >> a number of state medical societies -- doctors who are actually out there practicing -- they are very concerned about this and they disagree with the position of the ama. it is important to work through this bill and make the necessary corrections. it is not going to get done by the speaker and a handful of leaders in the house on the democratic side of the arnold. it will take a broad consensus. trace: the president said we are

waiting for elster reforms as the days of harry truman. -- the president just said we have been waiting for health- care reforms as the days of harry truman. >> there are things that are wonderful about our health care system and there are some serious problems. it affects every person in this country. i care about good health care reform. it is important to get this right. we cannot afford to make a mistake. i am urging the president to say, let's all work together on this and really get a good bill and not just rushed through something that will be a political document that says we've reformed health care in the name of reform. we want reform that changes our system for the better. trace: congressman, thank you. martha: there's a lot coming up. we have been brought his burger -- we have ben roethlisberger. i am martha maccallum.