creator has to offer, it is pretty sad. sean: that is all the time we have. we will be back here monday night. we hope you have a great weekend. greta: tonight, health care or health scare plan? karl rove it says president obama as a health scare plan. what does that mean? he is next. and then, senator john mccain about the fist fight going on on capitol hill. plus, it took us three months, but finally, the defense department releases footage from that fly over manhattan that you paid for. remember prove that photo op -- remember? that photo op. and a career change? two doctors becoming a star. first, a health scare? that is what karl rove says.

he joins us here in washington. health scare? >> he has adopted a much different tell the last few weeks, starting with his news conference -- a much different tone. i think we would all be talking today about the comments he made about doctors, where he said that doctors would give you the blooping or the red pill, which is twice as expensive -- or the blue pill, allegations where doctors routinely do tonsillectomies to fat in their wallets. -- to fatten their wallets. greta: i got a lot of emails about that. >> yes, their own personal financial situation as opposed to your health care, and we saw in the tone that night. what he talked about was a much more dark discussion, not what this could do for the country,

but people afraid of losing their health insurance, and he began to talk not about health care, which he has been doing for the last six months, but he began talking about health- insurance reform, and we learned this week that the reason he is doing that is that his pollster found out that insurance companies are not well liked, so he needed to shift to talk about insurance reform instead. the system needs to be improved, but the question is, what kind of change? the president has recommended a change in which the government assumes a much larger role in health care, and decisions would be made more by professionals, not by your doctor, but by professionals in washington, and the dictates will become from someone else rather than by a doctor. greta: does that not happen now? when you get a procedure that is rejected by the insurance company? the insurance company, nonmedical person is making those decisions? >> you have the ability to

appeal that, and you have the ultimate ability to say, "i do not like my current carrier. i would like different insurance." look. the question, what do we need to do, and i think there are lots of things we can do that will make health insurance more available and more accessible. we need to have a national market. you combine your automotive insurance across state lines, but you cannot combine your health insurance. the more competition, lower the costs go and be better the benefits. we would see this in its insurance for help if we did it. if you're 25 years old and male and healthy, your health insurance is roughly one-third the cost of somebody in southwestern new york. greta: why? >> because each state sets its of an upset of peculiar rules. if you are in north dakota or south dakota, those are relatively small states, and

the market is relatively constricted. if you can be locked into a market, and if you are in north dakota, and you could buy your insurance from a wizard in maryland. you do not have to buy insurance from somebody within your borders -- from a lizard in maryland. greta: it will harm elderly people, some provocative and scary things. in what way does this health- care reform as we know it, does it have a direct impact on the elderly, or not? >> i think it will. it will have an impact on everybody. we will see a system that poses an invasion and the ability to create new techniques and drugs that extend life and provide a greater quality of life. we will see it be less attractive for investment in health care, whether a hospital or an extended-care facility. look. the government will set prices. it does it in medicare. in medicare, a doctor get 81% of

what the private insurer would pay for that same operation under medicare. hospitals get an average of 71 cents for each activity they take, compared to what they would be paid by a private insurance company, and what? because the government dictate the price they will pay -- and why? they have to pick up the costs, and by shipping it to people who are not in medicare, and that is why -- by shifting it to people who are not in medicare, and that is why doctors limit the amount of patients they have in medicare and medicaid, so they say, "this is how much charity care i am willing to provide," to and that dictates how many patients. greta: the government would be cheaper, right? and everyone would go for the cheaper? >> it would not be cheaper. it would sort of arbitrarily fixed the price, as it does in

medicare, and shift the price, but if everyone falls into the government's system or even if a significant amount of people fall into the government option, at the government-run plan -- we have 1300 companies providing health insurance -- into the government option, the government-run plan. in essence, these companies would be collapsing. greta: all right, i am all for people making money. these insurance companies, are they making an extraordinary amount of money? everyone has seen these huge bonuses on wall street, but are they making a lot of money? >> right now, they are making healthy profits. greta: what is a healthy profit? >> they have actuaries that look at the clients they have and make an estimate as to how much insurance needs they will have in the future, and how much they will draw, compared to their premium, and then thethings on

that. i look. here is the great thing about this. whatever their profits are, and then they can do things on that. look. here is the great thing about this. they are constantly looking for what is that golden mean between the two. they are worried about keeping their customers and keeping their customers happy. 84% of all americans say they are happy with their health-care coverage. 91% of the american people claim they have health insurance. we are not sure that is correct, but in a private poll, 91% say they have it. 76% of all americans have coverage and are happy with it, so president obama has a problem when he looks like he is trying to disturb with three out of four americans are already happy with what they have. greta: pushed off to september,

is that a loss? is that a hit for the president? >> it is, because he is the what he set the goal by the end of august. i never understood what he did that. -- he is the one who set the goal by the end of august. the questions are so contentious and the questions so murky that this is not something that can be done quickly. particular because, look. he passed the $787 a stimulus bill and the omnibus bill. he did the nahla of dm. he had $350 billion left in the tarter fund, which he extant -- he did the bailout of gm. he had $350 billion left in the tarp fund. the american people said, "whoa, wait a minute." for cristóbal, the conditions

were a little bit different. he had just arrived into office. this is so complex and so big, -- first of all, the conditions for a little bit different. the budget plan was a key element of this. remember, this is where he comes up with a plan for his budget that says, i want the plan to have a doubling of the national debt in five years and tripling of it in 10 years, and i want to read a gigantic streams of red ink that go into a veritable flood of red ink -- i want to have gigantic strains of red ink. that is what you are planning to do -- streams of red ink. that was would rather optimistic projections about revenues. greta: stand by. we will have more for you in two minutes. and we have b photo op, more pictures of the infamous flyover in manhattan -- and we have a photo op.

senator mccain. plus, why is first lady laura bush making headlines? and what but timothy mcgraw having an issue with a fan? -- and what is timothy mcgraw having an issue? -- why is he? president obama: i took a trip to elkhart, indiana, today.

elkhart's a place that has lost jobs faster than anywhere else in america. the unemployment rate went from 4.7% to 15.3%. in fact, local tv stations have started running public service announcements that tell people where to find food banks... even as the food banks don't have enough to meet the demand. as we speak, similar scenes are playing out in cities and towns across america.

greta: well, these are the photos the government did not want you to see. they sent terrified new yorkers running for their lives when a 747 buzzed manhattan with a flyover. it was a photo op, and they decided not to let anyone know before it happen. the white house would only release one photo. we knew they had to have more. what photographer only takes one picture? finally, months later, we have them.

karl is back. first of all, $300,000 is horrible, but why did they sit on it for three months? >> i do not know, but, look. the photos are fine, he and i can understand they want a good photograph. -- are fine, and i can understand they want a good photograph. greta: they could have photoshopped it. >> yes. they really need to read the emails in the aftermath. everybody is trying to discover what this all happened . greta: if they had just released them when we had asked for it, we would not have gotten the emails, so we would not have had to have made the freedom of information act request, which is what caused the emails. >> the public affairs officer for the director of public affairs, for the headquarters of the first air force in a base in

nearby beach place in florida, she writes one after all of this happens. >> nothing like making us all look like a bunch of buffoons? can anyone say moe, larry, and curly?" greta: a great email. >> another letter is that one man receives a heads up, and he says that odds could be remote, but for your s.a. the new york city populists can be sensitive to airplanes that appear lower than normal or on tracks not normally seen, particularly since 9/11. he goes on to say, "shifting gears, can i carry your bags?" he tried to put a ride on the flight. greta: $300,000 for something

that could have been freed. they scared the living daylights out of new yorkers, and then they delayed on the pictures. >> they could have got this photograph at a time when the president was going to new york, and they could have let people know what was happening, and they could have let air force one flight into new york with the statue of liberty in the background, without circle in manhattan. if you read your email, it was the goal not to have been over manhattan but over by the statue of liberty. -- without circling manhattan. it is the civilians. one man, who is gone, who was the political appointee, he was shot. they had this guy, george, who apparently has got his name all over this email traffic. i do not know if he is at the office, but he is the one letting everybody know with a lot of enthusiasm that they are

about to pull off this mission. greta: transparency. made us but for these pictures, made us spend money, made them spend the money for the flight, and then i had to unload them. >> and mulligan was talking about having these photographs. greta: transparency, money, the whole works. anyway, karl, as always, thanks. senator john mccain. that is next. plus, communist china. guess what? they are worried we are spending like drunken sailors, so how would we have china keep buying our debt proved steve moore has some ideas. -- our debt? steve moore has some ideas. ever worn your clothes in the shower?

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greta: on capitol hill, it is all about health care. the blue dog democrats, or something in between? senator john mccain joins us live. senator mccain, good to see you. >> thank you, greta. it is good to see you. greta: rush, rush, rush, get it

done. so why is everyone going on vacation if this were so important for the american people? should you not stick around and fix this? you tell us it is important. >> there are two things we never miss, and that is a pay raise and a vacation, and this is no different. maybe, greta, it is a good thing to do, because the congressional budget office has judged this as no cost savings, and, additionally, $1 trillion. let's step back and reevaluate, and maybe when we come back, sit down and really negotiate on a truly bipartisan basis rather than try to pick off a couple of republicans. -- rather than trying to pick off a couple of republicans. greta: you have got 30 days. anyway, i would not belabor that. the american people wonder why it is being pushed so heavily,

and yet, it cannot be done now. the occasion matters more. second question. in writing this bill, what role if any duty lobbyists play in writing this bill? -- do the lobbyists play? >> a lot. if you look at the biologics with this, the generic drugs which are in hailed or injected, the lobbyists have got exactly what they wanted -- inhaled. yes, their fingerprints are all through it. whenever you get legislation that comes up 1000 pages -- there were 1200 amendments with the bill we did through the committee, and, by the way, the blue dogs bark. they never bite. they roll over, and then they played dead. greta: -- and then they play dead. greta: did the lobbyists write

it or dictate it? >> i do not know. i have seen this in the past, especially when we have had soft money. they would not be making these kinds of investments if they did not expect something in return, and they get it. greta: in terms of this bill, i am not sure if anybody really truly knows what it is. is the government taking over health care decisions, or not? is that the scare tactic by opponents? >> well, first of all, it is very clear to me that if you have a public auction, you get either got one or two things. you either f-15 hundred insurers or 1501, -- you either have 1500 insurancers.

i think that is what would happen if we adopted the present proposal. greta: do you have a solution? if you could dictate what we should do, what would you dictate? >> i would dictate going across state lines to get the health insurance of your choice, wellness, and fitness, outcome- based treatment. in other words, take a patient that has a certain problem to treat, and then, rather for the outcome and individual procedures. wellness and fitness, even in the form of cash rebates if people would practice wellness and fitness. clearly, medical malpractice reform, which is not in any of these bills, which come in itself, he is $100 billion a year, and work on eliminating $350 million that is fraud, waste, and abuse -- which, in itself, is $100 billion a year.

pre-existing conditions, giving them health insurance. there is a whole lot of things to do to bring costs under control. the bottom line is that republicans believe the quality of health in the -- health care in america is the best in the world. we have to control costs. democrats believe we have to fundamentally change health care. that is why we fundamentally disagree, and i am sorry for the long answer. greta: i am not try to give you extra work. i know how hard you work. this is a bill that is going to transform us. no matter what, it will have a huge impact. president obama has at a town hall invited any member of congress who wants to go to the white house and go through it line by line, how about that? why do you not sign onto that and go through it line by line and all of the other democrats and republicans on the hill? >> i would be glad to, but when you have got an 1100-page bill,

i am not sure that the president's time is that will use. i would like him to go line by line over these bills which have earmarks and corruption and pork barrelling, which continues to go on unabated, which promised to do during the campaign. what we need to do, greta, is to sit down with genuine negotiations, where republicans and democrats across the table from each other. i have the highest regard and respect for all the republicans, but it has to be a real bargaining and negotiating session, not just democrats writing the bill to and us trying to change it. greta: i do not mean to be nasty about it when you say the president does not have the time, and i know he is extraordinarily busy with north korea and everything else, but everyone is taking a vacation this month, and everybody signed up for the job, and it is an emergency, and i think if they could take time to go through it line by line, it because you all

signed up for the job. >> what i tried to say is is not so much going through it line by line. but what i am trying to say. -- what i am trying to say is it is not so much going through it line by line. we could address those issues that are our differences, and, by the way, i am going to be visiting -- i will be traveling to places that are not vacation spots during vacation, during the recess, as well. greta: and i should say that i know a lot of members of congress, they are not sitting on the beach. they are not doing that. i realize that. i realize they are doing other work. i do not need to be flip about it. i know they are doing their job. one last question. can you call the president and say, "how about -- can we talk about these particular issues?" or can you call the leadership in the senate and actually get some traction on these issues?

>> well, until public opinion turns against the president's plan or the democrats' plan, they were not willing to do that. perhaps they will now. also, the president needs to come up with his proposal. that has not happened. in both houses. republican opinion -- public opinion is very wary of it, particularly its enormous effect on an already burgeoning deficit and debt, and we are creating generational theft, and maybe we can come together and sit down and negotiate our differences in a truly bipartisan fashion. look. i understand. they have the majority. they have the votes, and that is the way it works, but do not call it "changing the climate in washington." greta: thank you, senator. i did not need to be flip about it. i know senator lindsey graham has an active duty in afghanistan, so i did not mean

to be disrespectful, sir. -- has an active duty. >> you are not at all, greta, and sometimes i think you have a very smart argument that we should stay at work, but let's try to serve our constituents in the most effective fashion. greta: nice to see you. thank you, sir. >> thank you. greta: up next, you know how embarrassing it is when your credit card gets rejected, and it happens to everyone. what happens when it goes on with china? steve moore is here. and he might be number one of all cable news, but bill o'reilly might be facing some tough competition from two doctors. where will you find the stability and resources to keep you ahead of this rapidly evolving world? these are tough questions. that's why we brought together two of the most powerful names in the industry. introducing morgan stanley smith barney. here to rethink wealth management. here to answer... your questions.

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my high/lo settings so it really does micromanage where my blood sugar needs to be. i'm nick jonas and never slowing down is my simple win. greta: we need the chinese to keep buying our debt, but, apparently, they are starting to grumble. they are not impressed with our growing debt. how do we get the communist nation to keep picking up the tab for us? joining us is steve moore, a senior editorial writer for a "the wall street journal." >> they are wondering whether we are a good credit risk, right? we are only borrowing $2 trillion, right? greta: are they concerned? >> yes, they are, and you would be, too, if you keep doing this and borrowing money and going into debt. greta: they have no leapfrogs up

in front of japan as far as the biggest owner of our debt -- they have now leapfrogged up. >> the japanese, germans, the french. let's think of the doomsday scenario. what happens it china says, "you know, we do not think of you are a good credit risk anymore because of the $13 trillion you what." it china stops buying our dead, who is going to buy it? -- because of the $13 trillion you want." we have got to get this down. greta: if we go into inflation, and we have to print money, and now the debt they have bought is rather worthless. >> this is the fear. it is not just the chinese. the japanese, the arabs, the europeans, and they have the same concern. what happens to countries when

they get so overinvested that they cannot pay back the debt? the pattern is the same -- they did so over -- they get so over indebted. they pay back the debt with money that is or is malaise. greta: $300 billion in one-year. -- with money that is worth less. why did they keep buying our debt? are we so much a better credit risk than anybody else? you would have thought that they would have sort of put on the brakes beginning last fall if nothing else. >> because the chinese economy is so centrally tied to the american economy, and they want to hold dollars, and the way you do that is get paid back with dollars plus the interest rate. the problem is they are starting to wonder if the dollar is going to retain the value. over the last 20 years, the

dollar has been a very stable currency. that is what you can go all over the world. you have dollars, that is what people want, and now, not so much. people are saying, "a maybe i now one year rose -- "maybe i now want your rose -- euros." think about this in the context of our economic crisis right now. the housing crisis is still the biggest problem. we need people to buy houses. how are people to buy these houses if the mortgage rates go up? greta: and japan, they are not complaining. >> all of these countries are starting to get nervous about it, and everybody should be nervous about it. it is all of us to a and dollars in our bank accounts but if inflation goes up, you remember the 1970's -- it is all of us. all of us with dollars in our bank accounts.

if inflation goes up, you remember the 1970's. greta: steve, as always, thank you very much for joining us, another bleak story as we try to sort out the economy, and we will be right back with what doctors say we should put into this health-care reform. we have been talking to politicians, but now, we will talk to doctors. to demonstrate the allergen trappers in pledge, we've trapped kimberly in this glass box... with all this dust. well, it's only dust.

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investigating reports that three american tourists have been detained in iran. two kurdish officials say the americans were arrested after entering northern iranian territory without permission. federal health officials are saying swine flu is spreading, but it is not as widespread. the deaths in the u.s. now total at least 353. more than 55 letter people have been hospitalized, but it is believed more than 1 million americans have had the infection. i am lauren sivan. now, back to you "on the record with greta van susteren." greta: two doctors have an internet show all about health care. earlier, two went on the record. good to see both of you. >> good to see you. greta: doctor, doctor, senator, senator, and now you have an internet show. >> and grandfathers'.

-- grandfathers. >> there are only two senators better also doctors, and when they talk about health care, it is so personal, and everybody is involved, and we thought it was a great way to share ideas with people around the country and video in, twitter, facebook, the whole deal, and we are hearing from hundreds and hundreds of folks, and is a way to share information. -- it is a way to share information. greta: when can we see these internet shows? >> we are on every tuesday and thursday at 5:00 eastern time, and you can get in on the web, and you can google it. they are like tuesday and thursday at 5:00. >> is really important to have a positions perspective, and if the american people will go and talk to their -- it is really important to have a position --

physician's perspective. we may be a little more sensitive about this issue for our patients that our colleagues. >> who is going to pay for it? and am i going to keep my insurance and my doctor? >> and your answer is? >> unfortunately, the public is being asked to pay for this, and what the president promised and what is being delivered are two different things. health care is going to suffer. it is bad for people to are going to pay for it, especially in this environment, and they are not good for doctors or nurses or nurse practitioners, if people want to work closely with their patients, and that is just wrong -- practitioners, people who want to work closely with their patients. greta: if you could do what you wanted, in a practical standpoint, what would you do?

>> make sure we got much greater value for the dollars we are spending today. we do not need to spend more on health care. $1 out of every $3 does not prevent people from getting sick. we ought to be able to go and capture a large portion of that $1 out of $3 that are being wasted, and if we did that by common sense, making sure we have a transparent market, making sure we have a choice, also putting some of your risks on the line, so you can have the coverage you want and deciding on the coverage you want, and having the doctor you want, but also having a financial connection to those choices -- what this would cause us to do is be good shoppers both in quality and price. we are good on quality, but we are not good on price. we need the patient to start questioning the cost of things, and as they do that, the prices will go down. >> the other question we get is are members of the house and

senate going to read the bill, and the good news is they have delayed the vote until after the summer break. greta: we are going to have a pop quiz, and one doctor has challenged the president. the president has said he wants to go line by line by line on the bill, and would you two go in the white house and go line by line by line? >> absolutely. greta: you would sit down in the white house would be president and go line by line by line? >> absolutely. -- with the president and goal line by line by line? greta: we will help you do it -- with the president and go line by line by line? >> they will need a beer after going through this bill. greta: all right, the better to ask about health care that the people the actual practice it. joining us is the head of emergency medicine in the bronx, and here in washington, the head of cardiology at the university

of maryland school of medicine, and another doctor in an emergency room. what would you like most of all? what will you need? >> we are committed just to providing health-care option for all people have to actually the best option, and what we really need is not only expanded coverage but the assurance that quality will be maintained, as well, and the second thing we need is that the sustainability of that option, vis a vis the cost of running that option, should be maintained. without this, it is not going to happen. for example, the quality issue is a key issue. we have a spiraling of costs related to technology right now in health care, and if you look at the trends, is so huge that it will decapitate the system in the future -- is so huge. greta: are you are all worried about what you hear this health

care reform is? is there anything that strikes you or anything that you need it? >> yes, good afternoon, thank you for having me. one thing that scares me is we cannot put the burden of this on the backs of the people who can least afford it, and by that, we cannot go and cut the medicare program, because the area where i work, which is an urban inner- city area, we treat a huge number of people who have no insurance, and we also treat a huge number of people who are of very little means, and we need the ability to care for these people and to continue to care for them and know that we will get compensated for some of this care. greta: doctor, if you could write this bill, what do you want? >> well, i think one of the most important things people need to talk about is emergency care, because if you look at the massachusetts health care, where they expanded in universally, e r visits went up 7% every year.

-- e.r. visits went up. when you increase the demand, you have not done anything for the supply, and we need to shore up our e.r.'s. they are at their breaking point. we need to make sure that this is an important part of health care reform. greta: doctor is there anything about the whole process, about having a bunch of politicians, and i mean no disrespect to the politicians, but they are also determining how you deliver it. would you like to get a little more input? >> i think the doctors are confused about this. the speed with which this information has been transmitted is a dizzying, personally, to me, that i am not certain -- is so dizzying that i am not certain we have had the opportunity to engage in this debate. it is one of the things that makes me very skeptical about

the rush to judgment on these health-care-reform bills. greta: may be others feel the same way i do, but when my mother was living, i used to look at their medicare forms, and i cannot understand a single board of them. i used to put them in the drawer and hope for the best -- i cannot understand a single word of them. >> the volume of paperwork and the items that we have to document and submit is dizzying. you know, two things that would help us in the process here is if we could reduce the cost of doing business, that would help us in the long run, and if we could also increase the contribution from the for-profit industries, as far as helping us with the medical coverage, i think that will help tremendously in our battle to provide coverage and care for the populace in the united states, especially in inner-city areas, in which i work. we treat a large proportion of

people who are illegal immigrants. they are here. they made it here. they do not qualify for medical coverage, and they are not going to be covered at all under any of these plans. greta: i do not want to pull a scab off of a woman's, but the president of the other night suggested at least -- pull a scab off of a wound, but the president of the other night suggested at least that they are doing tonsillectomies to make money. >> pediatricians do not take out kids tonsils. ent doctor is due. they get a referral once you have exhausted all of your other medical options. no one rushes to surgery just for the money, and it is rather, frankly, insulting as a position that he would imply such a thing. greta: how about you, doctor? do you do extra procedures just

to make some extra dollars? >> of course not. why would we? greta: when did you think when you heard that? >> i respect the president's -- what did you think when you heard that? >> i respect the president, but i do not think we should malign the doctors as somebody doing something wrong. we are really in the business of giving the best care, and we do that under the constraints that we are given as none of us goes to work thinking about how we make money. my concern is to provide the best, highest-quality care. greta: either that or you would have gone to law school. doctors, thank you very much, and i hope the members of congress will consult more doctors to as they we write whatever we need for our health care. up next, -- as they rewrite whatever we need for our health care. up next, while driving.

and former first lady laura bush made an appearance today. i've been growing algae for 35 years. most people try to get rid of algae, and we're trying to grow it. the algae are very beautiful. they come in blue or red, golden, green. algae could be converted into biofuels... that we could someday run our cars on. in using algae to form biofuels, we're not competing with the food supply. and they absorb co2, so they help solve the greenhouse problem, as well. we're making a big commitment to finding out... just how much algae can help to meet... the fuel demands of the world.

greta: all right, you have seen our top stories, but here is the best of the rest. president laura bush and a summary named by bush 43. mrs. bush became a sponsor of the summer -- when she was first lady of taxes. do not mess with tim mcgraw, even if you are a fan. you could get booted from one of his concert. he had a problem with a fan at a recent show, and he was not shy about it. he had them and toss. -- had the man tossed. [

beep] you do not treat a woman like that. get out of here. greta: no word exactly on why he had a man objected, but he thought the man was routed to a woman and the crowd. update -- the m&a was -- the man was rude to a woman in the crowd. a truck driver crashed into a swimming pool while he was texting on one telephone, talking on another, and trying to drive. i guess he could not get the internet in the car to complete the trifecta. police confiscated but telephones. the driver was charged with reckless driving. gee, you think? finally, no matter how many

times you have seen it, it is always amazing, at the space shuttle endeavour touching down at the kennedy space center in florida. the crew was finishing up the 16-day trip to the international space station. there you have it, the best of the rest. still ahead, the last call. burgers, served by conan o'brien. you are one person, but you can move a nation.

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greta: 11:00 is almost here. flashed the studio lights. last call. leave it to conan o'brien to find a comedy in the growing problem in america -- flash the studio lights. >> they are complaining that americans are getting fatter and fatter, and is getting harder to lift them into ambulances. -- candidate is getting harder and harder to lift them. -- and it is getting harder. greta: that is your last call. the lights are blinking, and we are closing down shot. do not forget, and gretawire.com. this website is so much fun. it is growing. -- do not forget gretawire.com. the most powerful name in news. "