waterfront. david: oh! thank you. that's it for "forbes on fox." have a fabulous summer weekend. keep it here. terry keenan and "cashin' in" right now. >> it's a sick amount of money. >> excuse me. i'm going to hurl. >> we're not talking about the pricetag for health care reform but how much we're already in the hole for medicaid. should we get that under control before spending trillions on another government boonedoggle? and they're spreading across america and no one can stop them. >> the blob is back. >> now states are hiring czars. why someone here says you better pay attention because your money is at risk. plus, this wasn't what cash for clunkers was supposed to be about. >> girls, girls, girls. hello, girls! >> your tax dollars going to buy luxury cars? it's another outrage alert. all of that and --

>> i made a little decision. >> you finally got botox! >> a botox tax to pay for health care? we can't make this stuff up. your innocent, your life, your show to stay ahead of the game. "cashin' in" starts right now. terry: a huge bust over medicare fraud. more than 30 people indicted in four states this week as lawmakers in congress promise to deliver a whole new government-run health care program. proof we need to fix medicare first? hello, everyone. i'm terry keenan. welcome to "cashin' in." here to debate this, our "cashin' in" crew. wayne rogers, john that than, jonas, tracy burns and john. also joining us, an old friend of the program, rob stein, managing director at astar asset management. welcome. medicare celebrating its 44th birthday this week with more fraud charges. is it time to fix medicare first before we embark on this new system? >> are you kidding?

you have to. this is like saying we'll redo the state rooms on a cruise ship. when the motor doesn't work, there's holes all in the boat. if they can't run medicare, they can't run a national health organization either. you have $60 billion in fraud, doctors ordering tests people don't need because they're scared of being sued without some type of medical fraud reform this thing falls apart. >> the numbers are astounding. the fraud allegations run into the hundreds of billions of dollars. in terms of just medicare. >> that's true. and medicare needs to be cleaned up and fixed. but i don't think it's an and/or. i think part of the whole health care reform or national health plan will include fixing medicare. in the boat analogy, you do need to paint the whole boat at one time if you don't want to be able to put the boat out of service for such a long period of time. i think it needs to be fixed together. terry: you're a trusting person. is this the opportunity, jonathan to fix medicare as we

branch out to offer everyone health care? >> terry, we shouldn't fix it. we should kill it. we should get rid of medicare. we should get government finally out of the health care game completely. medicare has been -- people say it's been this big accomplishment. it has been an abject failure. for those who want a big single payer system, hello, medicare is the biggest. it is broke. it has killed the free market in health care. even now government accounts for 50% of all the spending on health care in this country. medicare is already 60% of the budget! >> you know why people decide to go 100% private insurance? i've never come across one person, even the complainers who don't take their money out of that when they get a chance. they are in the same system because it is governed health care. the problem is not the fraud. it's -- it's one of the problems government plants. but there's others problems that gone with private insurance it doesn't mean that's a bad system

necessarily either what needs to be fixed is a simple fix. they have to move the 88 jibility -- eligibility age out to cover these additional costs of the new, expanded health care plan. you shouldn't be able to get medicare until you're about 70 because people are older than they were when they took up the plan. >> but the money is the issue. $60 billion in fraud. that gets us almost closer to where we're going with all this health care reform. you won't need it. you'll have all of this extra money. 10% of the money we spend in health care now goes to fraud. fix the fraud. if you go to this whole one-payer system where everybody's on it, can you imagine the scope of the fraud? it will be even bigger. i think everyone agrees that older people, young kids, need some sort of access to health care. medicare, medicaid, created to do just that. i believe that both systems are a total disaster. but fixing them could be a much easier, cheaper solution than doing this whole health care reform nonsense. terry: to jonathan's point,

medicare system is bust right now even without the fraud. >> that's correct. there is no fixing a system. you can't fix something that the government is involved in. it's going to just get worse. the government is inept. they don't know what they are doing. and there is not one government program that you can put your finger on that has ever come in that has been efficient and has worked. it is not based on spending. it's based on more people spend morgue money for doing bad things. it's an outrageous system. everything the government does is like that. >> i don't know about that wayne. i think the post office works fine. you put a little piece of paper on the corner of an envelope and it's across the country two days later. you have a problem with it for 45 cents? >> yes, i do! >> the military seems to be working good. maybe it's not economically efficient. >> but, ross, the military doesn't live under a budget. their job for defense at any

cost. and i understand that. that's what it should be. but we're talking about something that shouldn't cost the american taxpayer disls of dollars. it's just fraudulent. >> i'm glad brought up -- jonathan? i'm glad rob brought up the post office. they're facing a huge deficit. they may cut mail delivery to five days from six days. but when it comes to health care and the system is broke, we don't cut back on anything. >> well, we don't and we won't, terry. as long as you make health care an entitlement, as long as you said everyone has a right to whatever health care they want. honestly, you know, tracy, i appreciate your perspective, but why the hell do i have to pay for the respirator of my neighbor who's done nothing but chain-smoke for 20 years, sat on his butt and watched reruns? >> he's an anomaly. old people, little kids, should have access. but everybody else in between does not need to be on the single-payer system when you can get a job and accept the

insurance policy that your business offerses you. terry: i misspoke, they're going to try to cut service to five days in terms of mail delivery. the point is, we're not cutting anything in the health care arena. >> we're not cutting anything. >> if you can't run a one-car parade, you shouldn't be put in charge of the daytona 500. the government has never been able to run anything. wayne is right. to put them in the charges of something else before they fix something like medicaid or medicare sin sane. is insane. >> by the way, i want to support that guy that jonathan knows because i want him to watch the "m.a.s.h." reruns. terry: we're for couch potatoes here. ok. >> i watch them. terry: next, what happens in washington doesn't always stay in washington. czars spreading like locusts. states jumping on the bandwagon, appointing their own czars to oversee their stimulus dollars. a good or bad investment for america? and now they want to spend

billions more on these cash for clunkers handouts.

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cops say the device was never a threat. just a few batteries and wires. the man now in custody. and a brand new g.i. bill is kicking in today. the government will pay out $78 billion over the next 10 years to send veterans to college. many of those vets served after 911, and they will be eliminate jibl for a full tuition at a state university plus they'll get money for housing and books. and the new g.i. bill is the most comprehensive education benefit since world war ii. we'll send you back to "cashin' in" now. i'll see you at the top of the hour in "america's news headquarters." terry: remember these guys? a whole new set of czars are now popping up across america. nearly a dozen states are now paying six-figure salaries to install their very own czars. and just this week nevada announced it is looking to hire one for $180,000 a year. i guess if you're going to be called a czar, you should get

paid well. >> this is horrible. don't try to motivate them. hire motivated employees. they are look at people who are stealing. the problem is the thieves in public office. if you don't have thieves, you don't need czars. the problem is systemic. go after the corrupt politicians. >> i'm against czars in general. i think the whole name should be abolished. you just said we were hiring someone to manage the money. no one would be talking about this right now. and we're talking about salary that are like $150,000. if you're dispersing a couple billion to a state, i don't mind paying $150,000 to make sure it gets out there. that's the problem. this money is not being dispersed. the stimulus plan is crashing and burning. maybe $150,000 might be worth it. terry: i think the idea of using the word czar was supposed to inspire confidence. it hasn't worked out that way. >> it sounds too royal for my liking. i'm an american. do you have to go through czar

training? look, they're shoveling none states. you need people to make sure it gets spent right. this seems to be a p.r. type of role when you're talking to the media. they need consultants so it doesn't get wasted. i'm -- one person is not enough foam spend $5 billion shoveled in from the federal government. i guess now they have someone to talk to the press about it. >> that's the whole point. why give that person the $5 billion, $10 billion to spend in the first place? >> you're seeing the taxes which hurt the growth that we're sort of seeing in the economy now. >> i don't care if they're working for free, terry. if there's money to be invested, let the market invest it on its own. this administration specifically seems to think the freemen and free markets are idiots. >> that's not what we're talking about, jonathan. we're talking about the money that's supposed to go to these so-called shovel ready projects that are not getting out there.

so this money is dispersed. know you are against the notion of it. but it's out there. we have to move forward and figure out how to do it right. to spend $150,000 or to jonas' point -- to get it done properly might not be terrible. >> there's wealthy people that give you money that want it invested. your job is to find the efficient way to make their investments. you have a set of guidelines of what you do. >> it isn't a czar though. >> it's marketing. >> i don't seat parallel. >> if the person who is selected to be the czar, terrible name, has information and education and knowledge of the shovel-ready projects, and they can disperse the money more efficiently, i'm for it. terry: go ahead, jonathan. >> examples throughout history. quickly. the ipod, things that make our lives better generally don't come from a centrally planned economy and a czar. terry: that is a good point. but, wayne, the states aren't sitting on all of this money.

it needs to be deployed, i guess. it's already been spent by congress. do you have a problem with this? >> i don't. i agree with rob on this. you've got to have some accountability here. you can't just turn this money loose to the states and let the politicians just disperse it. you've got to have somebody there who's going to watch over how this money is going to be spent. and also to account for it after the fact. and that's not necessarily government running amok, jonathan. that's accountability. that's what we need. somebody's got to account to the constituent how is this money spent. you just going to let them just blow it? that's crazy. terry: but how accountable are these czars? they don't seem to answer to anybody. they can leave when they want, come when they want. >> they answer to the government or the state who has appointed them and hired them. they're going to be open to the press. the press is going to have a chance to take a shot at them. >> that's good. >> he answers to god. that's how it works. they're put there by god.

terry: that's good that the governors in certain states, not the one that we live in. >> i'm for accountability. we need accountability from the local level to the federal level to the president himself. but the problem is, once you started instituting government programs, they never get rolled back. we just keep putting more and more nannies in. >> that's right. but that doesn't have anything 20 do with accountability. you've got to have accountability. >> i agree with accountability! we're on the same page with that. it's how we do it that's different. >> we have to get rid of the czar. terry: thanks, everyone. thanks to rob for joining us. next, trading up on the taxpayer dime. some folks now using the popular cash for clunkers program to get behind the wheel of a luxury car. and you guessed it, you're paying it. %%%%%%%%%%%

terry: it's barely a week old and it's a huge hit already. congress is making it even bigger. but not everyone is sold on the new cash for clunkers program it turns out that some people are trading in their cars for luxury vehicles like a lexus. jonathan, you say taxpayers are getting a raw deal on this cash for clunkers program. >> oh god, terry. they can't run a rebate program. god help us if they try to run health care. why am i subsidizing any car? a lexus, a honda, a pinto? this is another auto bailout. they dressed it up as some kind of green initiative, but this is the worst of worst type of favoritism for the auto industry, hello g.m. already bankrupt.

they wouldn't pass out subsidies to buy genes or toothpaste or tennis rackets. why shuffle more taxpayers' dollars to the auto company? terry: bad idea? it's very popular. >> of all of the nonsense they dished out there thus far this could have the potential to be one of the better things they had going. they still screwed it up because the mickey mouse club is in congress and they didn't figure out they probably were going to need more money for this deal. of course, the thing we'll probably continue to go forward. $4,000 to $5,000 is not a luxury vehicle. you can pimp out my minivan for $4,000. if it's going to get traffic going, which anecdotally we've seen it have, it will help g.d.p. because you will get people purchasing again. i hear complaining in the background. but it is what it is. terry: we have to depend on cash for clunkers, we're in big trouble. >> to jonathan's point why not

bail out the appliance industry? you could get new stoves, refrigerators. they would be, you know, have green complications to them. it would be great. why not bail out every other industry? this is one of the dumbest ideas i've ever heard. >> wait. terry: let him finish. >> this is a blatant underwriting of the automobile industry. that's all it has to do with. they were too big to fail. they should have failed. >> first of all, they are bailing out those things. they buy receivables so they can keep making loans to sell those things you just talked about and they keep interest rates low so you can financed the things wayne just talked about. and the credit card companies got money to pay for those things. they also bail out house purchases with more money than this. philosophically stupid. >> yes. but if you have to give the auto companies money because no one's buying cars or give people money to buy their cars, i would prefer the latter. i wish they did more of this and less of the loans to g.m., etc.

as far as this lexus thing -- >> wait a minute! why not just -- why not just give people money? pay out the dollars. >> give people money to buy a house. they are doing that. i talked to a friend at b.m.w. they have no cars at this deal because there are no luxury cars for $45,000, america! wake up! this is to hand money to the auto industry. you get a clunker. people driving those cars don't have clunkers. terry: jonathan -- >> jonas, here. come get this. come get this. we're just giving it away. >> jonas brings up a short-term point. yes, this is a short-term pop. what you don't see is how it sabotages normal price discounting that maybe companies would have to do. everyone complains hybrids and

fuel efficient cars are so expensive this type of incentive is a discouragement to lower those prices. >> exactly. isn't there something wrong where the average car is $45,000 and the average family of four makes $45,000? >> it's crazy. >> there's something wrong with the country when you bail out the automakers then pay people to buy cars for the automakers you just bailed out. got some redneck buddies in texas got four cars. maybe this will clean up my neighborhood. but i don't think those guys should get $4,000 per car? >> it is what it is. now that it's there, it's got to be instituted properly. that right now is the problem. if they were going to run out there with this big p.r. campaign, they should have had the money to back it. so it is falling and failing miserably. i like everything else. >> the criticism is they're not green. they are crushing perfectly drivable cars. it's not a green initiative to flatten the drivable car. you're not even going to sell the parts on it.

it's not good for the environment, believe it or not. keeping the car well maintained on your friend's car. >> ok. terry: thanks, everyone. we got to stop it there. next, another government program. you want government-run health care? make joan rivers pay. we'll explain that coming up. that provides up to five shared wifi connections. two are downloading the final final revised final presentation. - one just got an e-mail. - what?! - huh? - it's being revised again. the co-pilot is on mapquest. - ( rock music playing ) - and tom is streaming meeting psych-up music from meltedmetal.com. that's happening now with the new mifi from sprint, the mobile hotspot that fits in your pocket. sprint. the now network. deaf, hard of hearing and people with speech disabilities access www.sprintrelay.com.

terry: time for "what do i need to know." >> the cosmetic plastic surgery business has been relatively

unscathed during all of this. it's obviously bothering the democrats. they want to impose a 10% tax on botox, boob jobs, you maim name it. they're loony. it's not going to happen. be safe. get your boob jobs. no taxes no. worries. crazy stuff. terry: you don't think it's going to happen. jonas? >> maybe i'm biased. but they had another study that tanning booths cause cancer and are basically as good for you as arsenic. >> surprise, surprise. >> it's going to be regulated very shortly, i'm sure. people that young will not be allowed to do that anymore or smoke. i'm recommending schering-plough once again which has done well lately because they make coppertone, back to the beach, get out of the tanning salons as soon as the weather clears up. that's the way to play this one. terry: go sunscreen. john? >> i think -- it beautifies america. increased betting will kill the

casinos, something like melco that makes gaming equipment benefits. terry: you like the equipment but it's not into the big-named casinos. >> that's right. terry: jonathan? >> a lot of speculation passed about whether or not israel will shut down iran's capability to manufacture nuclear weapons. i know it sounds counterintuitive to invest in what could be a war zone, but talk about israeli stocks. eis, the share in israel that tracks the israeli stocks, it's doing better than the brick country that so one's so enthusiastic about, brazil, russia, india. israel is a top performer. terry: when i was, people were talking about your picks. they're talking about you in israel. >> love it. terry: wayne? >> i like jonathan's pick. what we need to know is this bump in the prices and the absorption rate of houses will not last long.