phenomenon. it all started with a broadcast friend. common sense. from new york, good night, america. captioned by, closed captioning services, inc. >> geraldo: i'm geraldo rivera. we are live and at large. i have gotten off the phone with joe and katherine jackson and they have given me information that i consider explosive, exclusive information that you have not heard before about whom they believe is responsible for their son's death and talk about the issue of whether or not joe jackson really is estranged from category li katt numerous reports that he has been banned from the house in encino and the jackson children are scornful of him and he is being kept away from the grandchildren, about the apparent investigation involving dr. conrad murray and

his apparent imminent indictment. there is amazing stuff coming down the pipe. i'm getting it all organized and i will be bringing you the beginning of it in the next five or ten minutes but i want to begin with the stunning but controversial success of the governments it cash for clunkers campaign which rewards car buyers with up to $4,500 in free money when they trade in their old gas guzzlers for new smaller fuel efficient vehicles. so popular is the particular stimulus program that it has spent its entire billion dollars budget in just the first month and to keep the good times rolling the house on friday voted overwhelmingly to rush another $2 billion into the program. but the senate, as you know, has yet to agree. and for obvious reasons. watch. ♪ money for nothing and your chicks for free ♪

>> the president probably did not have the old money for nothing dire straits song in mind when included the rebright stimulus package, but there is no doubt this ranked as an enormous success. >> there were skeptics who weren't sure that this cash for clunkers program would work but i'm happy to report that t has succeeded beyond expectations and we are seeing a dramatic increase to car showrooms. >> nearly 250,000 car buyers just since july 1st and in the relative blink of an eye the industry recently declared dead is now booming. >> amazing. kind enough to give us the

rebate. three or four thousand dollars from general motters and then from the government. >> geraldo: ford also almost broke has seen its share fly high friday to eight times the amount. while auto execs and salesmen are singing, the conservative budget folks are not happy. >> recently one of the largest poultry producers in america, pilgrims if pride, just a few miles outside of my congressional district had to declare chapter 11. maybe we should have a cash for clubbers program and pay people to eat chicken and then pay people to buy tvs and then a program to pay people to buy lumber. >> all right, pretty good line

there's. cash for cluckers cam campaigns. s.c.kupp joins me and kirsten and the reverent al sharpton. i'm sure that you particularly will be interested in the jackson revealations we are about to reveal here on the program live. first, i have to ask you about the cash for clunkers. how do you feel about it, reverend? how do you feel about the fact that now it will be $3 billion that we are giving people essentially free money to buy cars. why not give distressed homeowners free money to pay off their mortgage. >> i think giving people money to buy cars will stimulate the economy and bring back some of the auto p companies that have not seen these kind of sales and generating activity that producer consumers.

not a situation where you don't see an increase of consumer dollars and money that will come in. what is so interesting is that many conservatives that are now criticizing it are the ones that said it wouldn't work, it was foolish and nobody is going to do it and now that it has exceeded everyone's expectations they are criticizeing that as well. >> geraldo: s.c.kupp, they criticize all expenditures but what better stimulus do you get than people flocking to once abandoned auto dealers? >> if you look at what everyone from congress and the kato institute are saying, this is not going to stimulate the economy. you will create an upturn now and have a downturn when the cars and money dry up, which i think will be another month. i think the government is throwing darts at a dartboard with the figures.

how do they come up with the $2 billion that goes through in two weeks. >> here you have the state of michigan where unemployment by some accounts is already 20%. you have all of the stories of the closing plants, about auto execs jumping out windows, salesmen slitting their wrists, figuratively speaking and we are dealing are we not with a severe and hopefully tempering crisis? >> you want it to as you say going to be temporary. we have to find long-term solutions to the problems. giving people $4,500 to buy a car when they should be saving money right now is not the right message to send to american homeowners, american consumers, american families. >> i don't think saving money is a great message in the situation that we are in. we do want people to spend some money and get the economy moving. it is like no country goes

unpunished in this situation. it is a successful program and people are spending their own money towards that purchase from the government. >> are they really spending their own money? $3,500 to $4,500 for the clunker and give you an incentive for $3,500 how you are talking about 7 or $8,000. >> you can by a car for $20,000 you can get a heck of a start and now don't have to put up any cash. >> you get a head start but are still spending money. >> it is artificial but i think that is the point -- i mean my complaint about the stimulus package was that it didn't actually do that stimulating but this is actually doing some stimulating and i think they should get some credit for that. >> geraldo: i have to say, sc, i agree, when i see all the projects and all the stuff that they have given money to.

this to me, i understand it, my mom understands it, everybody in america understands that they are moving cars that they weren't moving and they will keep people employed whose jobs would have been lost. >> hopefully the dealerships aren't left footing the bill for this. hopefully the government has an idea of where this is going. it makes me really worried about how they are going to run healthcare. >> geraldo: let me move on to the jackson material and rev, i want to give you a heads up. i'm going to come to you as soon as i say what they tell me and you will hear from joe's own mouth what he has to say and also give you folks at home a head's up that we will have a post beer summit debate later on in the program. right now i would like to move on to our continuing investigation into the death of michael jackson and this is truly a fox news alert. >> i just got off the phone, just got off the phone and i'm talking about let's -- i don't want to go into the news of the

world aspect of the story just yet but i just got off the phone, as i said, with michael jackson's parents, katherine and joe jackson. katherine who did not want her voice recorded. she does not want to give an official voice interview yet but told me in no unmistakable terms that the stories you are hearing about joe is simply untrue. he is not banned from then see know compound and is not being kept away from the grandparents. when she hears tales told of joe's alleged abuse of michael she says for god sakes that was 39 years ago, joe -- and he has had published remarks about this -- says that he spanked the children, he did not beat the children, he did not beat michael. be that all as it may, i spoke then to joe about the parents

fingers being pointed at dr. conrad murray, michael jackson's in-house physician. joe told me in no uncertain terms that he believes conrad murray is the fall guy. right now listen to a brief except of my exclusive conversation not more than 15-20 minutes ago with the father of michael jackson, joe jackson. listen. >> you know that, geraldo. >> tell me. >> don't you know what is happening. they are telling you lies because they are afraid. they are afraid. >> geraldo: what are they afraid of, joe? >> they are afraid of the power of -- >> geraldo: do you think it reaches up to the top? >> it is reaching up there some where. i don't know how high it's going reach but it's reaching up there some where. >> geraldo: and you think that dr. conrad murray, the in-house doctor is the fall guy?

>> i believe he is. that is what i believe. >> geraldo: we'll see. >> let me ask you something. >> geraldo: ask me anything, i'm a lawyer. >> why did he have the insurance on the o.d.? why did he have that. >> geraldo: good question, what do you think? >> same thing you think. >> geraldo: foul play. >> there is all kinds of insurances. why do you think he was trying to pay him in a million dollars when should have been paying him in pounds? why do you think he was careful of all the stuff? why do you think they didn't charge it in london? they tried to charge it here but i think they did charge someone. >> geraldo: you think your son was sacrificed on the altar of profit? >> on the altar of who?

>> geraldo: the altar of profit, that he was sacrificed for money. >> money. >> that could be a good part of it. michael was afraid. >> geraldo: tell me about that, i didn't know that. >> yes, he was. >> geraldo: what was he afraid of, joe? >> you talked to us tomorrow. >> geraldo: you got it, 10:00 tomorrow i will be on the phone with you. reverend al sharpton according to joe jackson michael jacksons, quote, unquote, afraid. your comments? >> i think first of all, mr. jackson and mrs. jackson have said things that are very clear, i mean you just showed pictures. joe jackson used to walk with michael to court every day. all of this about them barring him, when i was at the house leading up to the funeral, he was there every day and mr. jackson was on the east coast last week. i spent some time with him and he said some of these things to

me that he feels that they have got to keep digging deeper and deeper. let's not just stop at doctor, they want the truth and they don't want to stop until every contract, every insurance policy and everything has been examined and i support that. there are some of us that want to find out what is there or is not there without any fear. as far as michael being afraid, he expressed that to me, i do not know firsthand what michael's fear was. i know that michael from several years ago when came to me about his ca catalog always felt that there were forces trying to undermine him and i can say what his father said about him on tape as having that kind of fear is something i heard michael express. >> geraldo: michael jackson was afraid.

when we come back, some more bomb shell accusations against

>> geraldo: welcome back live. just a head's up again, we will have a post beer summit debate but now i want to move on to the continuing investigation into the death of michael jackson, the king of pop. before we hear one of -- another of michael jackson's doctors accused essentially of being an accomplice to manslaughter this is another fox news alert. in a world explosive the british tabloid news of the world has obtained a picture of the bedroom where michael jackson died. it shows that jackson

apparently spent the last hours of his life not in his own room but by that occupied in the room of the embattled dr. murray. what do you think about what joe jackson just said? did you hear it 12346789. >> i did hear it. interesting. so much speculation about whether he is going have access now to michael's kids and from the interview with you it seems like he definitely will. >> geraldo: what about aeg, the promoters and joe's feeling that some responsibility lies very high up the food chain here? >> well, obviously there has been so much speculation about these london concerts that were going to take place here obviously. even the fact that michael just weeks before his death came out and said i never idead to do 60. there is definitely some

feeling that maybe the concerts were never going take place at all. i think what joe is saying will have a lot of resonance but i think aeg will climb it as conspiracy theory. >> geraldo: definitely merits further investigation and i promise you folks when i talk to joe and some of the experts he will be gathering for me tomorrow night i think i will be able definitively to give you more substantive information. now, go back to the photograph. the fact that michael was in conrad murry's bedroom and not his own, what do you make of that? >> i should make it clear. we don't know for sure that this was actually conrad murray's bedroom but it is a second floor bedroom on the mansion on north carrollwood drive where conrad murray stored medication. this photo shows to the left of the bed there are a whole lot of things like alcohol prep

pads, surgical tape, laser gloves but what is particularly fascinating is down the bottom at the foot of the bed there is an ambu bag air pump. that forces air through a mask into the lungs to keep an unconscious patient alive. close investigation of the photo shows that that ambu bag air pump has actually been used. there are other really fascinating detail in the picture. for example, on the bed there is an incontinent sheet put on the bed to cover some form of liquid, perhaps blood. there is also left on the bed some middle eastern style prayer beads. we also have a photograph of michael jackson wearing these beads in the weeks before his death. somehow that also ended up on the bed. the other stunning thing about the photograph and the detail of the photograph. >> geraldo: 15 seconds. >> is that the room is

incredibly tidy and why is it -- >> geraldo: interesting. the room is tidy. why was it tidy? more on the jackson death probe, particularly about this probe, particularly about this other doctor, after thi

the next generation of brink's home security. call now. >> geraldo: my professional companion, kimberly guilfoyle, former prosecutor joins us right now. reflexes on what you heard? >> compelling, shock and somehow very believable that michael jackson really was a victim in this particular case and that people much more sinister and now -- and out for financial gain could have put an end to him. >> geraldo: they could have set the stage as likely as not. >> that this would occur and who can deny that he was worth more dead than alive and this was a quite profitable venture.

his stocks went up the minute he expired and dr. murray it appears is going to take the fall for this. >> geraldo: many more with kimberly. as you are about to hear on his own personal experiences with jackson, a doctor that greg has just interviewed believes that conrad murray, already arranged, listen to this, to cop a plea in the investigation. and add to that additional headlines, the inside sources believe that murray is squarely pointing finger to someone much clothesser to jackson than he was. >> the 13-page search warrant sheds further light on what investigators were looking for when they raided the home of dr. murray in las vegas, among them being the numerous alias escaped that michael jackson used to obtain drugs which the investigation calls excessive use of drugs.

some of the aliases seem like familiar names to you? >> yes, they are. i was his plastic surgeon in 1998. there are numerous, this are about eight other aliases that were used that are not in the the search warrant. >> so for years he has been using aliases to obtain some of the powerful pain killers, is that, correct? >> he became addicted in 1993, he used aliases before that, he used aliases when he was on tour. specifically the addiction occurred in 1993 from debbie roe and dr. klein's administration of demerol. >> tell me about the search warrant. does it put some of the pieces together for you? >> absolutely. >> i don't have direct evidence of this, but the evidence pretty much points to the fact

that dr. murray talked with the police the day after he told them he used propathol. he administered it numerous times. he would have had no experience in using diprivan, he was a cardiologist. >> wouldn't he need to use anesthesia and diprivan being a common one that is used? >> cardiologists are not surgeons, they don't operate. i think dr. murray turned in dr. klein, i think he is going to make a plea deal with the police, i think he is trying to find or the police are trying to find records that connect dr. murray in telephone

conversations, in correspondences and e-mailing with dr. klein. >> geraldo: craig, i only have 30 seconds before the commercial break and then i will bring you in on the other side. do we know whether that doctor, the man you just interviewed really has inside access to the jacksons and has the inside scoop? >> i mean he tells me he has been speaking with the jackson family on a daily basis. he is probably with them right now according to what he is telling me and even presented a letter signed by katherine jackson authorizing him to speak to the su the sixties were all about freedom. ♪ and now in my sixties, they are again. grandpa, are we there yet? i have the freedom to do what i want... and go where i want. grandpa, come on! freedom is what i like about my medicare supplement insurance. i can see the doctor i want, where i want, anywhere in the country. now your sixties can be a time of freedom again...

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iced tea drinkers in a toast to your health. i'm lauren sivan. back to "geraldo at large." >> geraldo: back live, folks. craig, we just saw an interview between him and the doctor, what is his name again, what is his name? >> hoffman. >> geraldo: one of the plastic. >> he is the surgeon. >> geraldo: who made some serious accusations about arnold klein who by some accounts is michael jackson's best friend, one of his best friends, some say he is the father of the children, which i think is prepostorrous. i'm sure dr. klein has something strong to say about the allegations. i know you contacted his lawyer. what exactly did klein's lawyer tell you about the allegations that we just spoke about? >> geraldo, he sent me an

e-mail, it was referring to conversations that i had regarding, you know, dr. murray giving -- or dr. murray getting instructions from klein. the e-mail is as follows -- during our conversations you informed me -- wait, okay. you informed me, dr. steven hoffman claimed that our client dr. arnold klein taught dr. conrad murry how to use propafol for michael jackson's use. dr. hoffman is not authorized to speak on their behalf. he says that his clients did not condone dr. hoffman making

comments about dr. kline. dr. kline did not know that dr. conrad murray existed until after michael jackson's death and has never met with, never spoken to and has never corresponded with conrad murry. obviously he did not teach conrad murray how to use propafol. >> he is referring to weitzman and sends me proof of a letter he got from weitzman. it says attorneys are represented by attorneys different than those representing the state and they authorized or approved dr. hoffman making statements. >> geraldo: i got it. let me summarize it for the audience. klein denies meeting murray or

taught murray how to use propafol and denies ever using it with michael jackson. that sums it up neatly, kimberly, comment? >> he is coming out and obviously defending himself and protecting his reputation and he came out in front on the case and went on the air and said he never had anything to do with this. that is a strong statement? can he back it up? the investigation perhaps will bring it out. ian halperin joins us. congratulations on hitting number one on the new york times best seller list. you heard what joe jackson had to say and the denial about all the stories that he is the bad guy in the saga. >> geraldo, totally false. michael's handlers portrayed

joe jackson as a villain. he held two jobs to make the jackson 5 into what they are. michael said that he loved his parents and joe jackson repeatedly. the handlers, the vultures around michael refused him entry. there is a father in mourning now and how dare the media and the world to try to dump on him right now. it's not the time. joe jackson is 80 years old. he made a lot of sacrifices. he made a lot of mistakes, too, he admits them. by the way, geraldo, when used to strap michael jackson, principals were doing that to kids in schools. >> my parents never hit me as far as i recall. be that as it may -- we believe that dr. conrad murray will by indicted for manslaughter or maybe even murder. we do not believe he is without

claim in this. and you have information to back up a kind of shady past. >> there is a stack of files on dr. conrad murray, paternity suits, fraud allegations. he needed dough. who paid him the money? who brought him in. the police have a list of over 100 people they are looking into. it starts with murray but there is other people, you hear it now, who going to go down as well. >> and how about dr. arnold klein? has he come up in your investigation. >> i had a dealing with klein personally and i will say one thing, i'm reserving judgment. lapd don't want egg on their face like oj case and spencer. he might be part of the plea bargain as craig said, but let's wait and see. >> ian, unmasked the book.

thank you very much, craig. and ladies and gentlemen, this is another fox news alert. even as our president grapples with the slowly, slowly recovering economy and his even shakier proposal which also cleared a key congressional committee on friday the president has his hands full overseas where news is breaking about three american backpackers arrested friday after they strayed across the iranian border from iraq. the three americans are being held by the iranians as infiltrators. staying at a youth hostel they hiked into the heavily wooded mountains in iraq, apparently ending up in iranian territory. the iranians confirm that the

americans have been arrested but they are describing the three young americans as u.s. military personnel which the pentagon absolutely denies and because we have no formal relationship with iran, we -- the nation has asked switzerland to seek access to the three young captured americans whose condition as far as we know is unknown at press time. and as that hostage crisis now simmers, all eyes are turning to afghanistan with -- where three more american soldiers were killed today but help is on the way and it could not come soon enough. watch this. >> we have some information of an -- and to the best of our knowledge -- july has been the cruelest month so far. and bravo sergeant knows what it will take to win.

>> if we had the resources to be efficient in the fight we could stop the training and movement of taliban coming into afghanistan but we don't. >> geraldo: as the patrols with newly trained soldiers from the afghan army, one problem according to captain higgins is their discipline under fire. >> what are they shooting at? >> geraldo: like many gis in theater lieutenant higgins eagerly anticipates the coming surge of u.s. forces. >> we can be clearing is one of them, and once we get more out here we can do more than just disrupt the enemy and more effectively coming down. >> geraldo: with afghanistan looming as the next big front in the fight, a top u.s. soldier who has already seen plenty of action both in afghanistan and in iraq yesterday assumed command of the legendary 101st airborne

division. general john f. campbell, a familiar face to fox news viewers. let's roll that if you have it. don't have that yet? all right, we will get to the ascension of the generals, let me talk about the post beer summit debate and the reverend al sharpton i want to bring you in for this discussion and sc kupp and kirsten powers. i have not received e-mails as emotional, as critical as i have after i thought and expressed my opinions that the gates matter did have heavy

racial overtones since the immigration debate. is this now going to stand as a huge mistake by president obama, getting himself involved? or do you think there is a dialog at least begun hesitantly that might bear fruit going forward? >> no, i think the dialog has clearly started. i think the dialog must now go into a more formal contest with the justice department and police chief and those of us in the civil rights community to try to really frame this so we can deal with both the problems that police have in policing and those that feel threatened by them. but i think, geraldo, what happened immediately after the so-called beer summit that really made people understand the president was not being outrageous, is one when you have a cop in boston sending an e-mail around that has in the e-mail four times, not one

time, not two times, four times referring to dr. gates as a banana eating jungle monkey who should be returned to his roots this is a sitting boston cop so wait a minute, this cannot be ex-age rated that you have some problems along raisial lines with some police. not even most police but some, it certainly didn't rule it out and when you have a lady coming forward that had been identified by the arresting officer of having said that there were two blocks with backpacks that she had reported, when she said i never said that at all and the tapes vindicate her saying it was never said on tape. she said she never saw it at scene so where did this description of blacks with a backpack come from? raise race. >> i don't think race has anything to do with this.

i don't think it had anything to do with it at the time and to suggest otherwise is frankly race baiting. >> geraldo: race baiting? >> i think the president should have had more information before he went into it in the middle of a conference on healthcare. >> geraldo: many more on this. >> geraldo: many more on this. and we will go too

welcome home, man.

>> congratulations. >> i'm humbled and honored to have the opportunity to serve in our great army. what a great day. you done a magnificent job in the surge. everyone thought that iraq was going to hell in a hand basket, thought we had been defeated there by the terrorists and the insurgency. with soldiers like you, the pointman in that surge, i saw you in sadr city and throughout iraq. can you do what you did there in afghanistan? >> we have great leadership. great brigades and divisions. this brigade, behind me just came back in april after spending 15 months in afghanistan. so we get the right folks here. it will take some time. counter insurgency also does, as you glow following in the footsteps of world war ii taylor and iraq's david

petraeus, general campbell is expected to take this division, one of the best military units ever fielded anywhere and bring the fight to the enemy. something we watched him do from afghanistan. as a colonel, he commanded a brigade as the 8 82nd airborne to iraq where he helped humble the al-qaeda insurgency. ♪ >> geraldo: now, watching him review most of the division that blazed its way into history from normandy to vietnam to sadr city, you get the unmistakable feeling that this general and these gis will get the job done. >> god bless our soldiers, our army, our families and our great nation. army strong. [ applause ] >> geraldo: screaming eagles. they are going to get the job done, i have no doubt.

now, i have got to go back to the beer summit because i didn't get kirsten. i know the show seems a little like we are making it up as we go along but we are really not. >> there is a when had to to the madness. >> geraldo: we have our first black president inserting himself into what was otherwise a local story. >> sure. i said i don't think he should have involved himself the way he did for a variety of reasons. but i don't think it is race baiting because i think there is a long history in this country about how african americans have been treated by police and i think gates overreacted to that. it is understandable. doesn't mean it is eokay, it is understandable. i think it was an abuse of power by this police officer because he was in his home and yelling at a police officer and being rude to a police officer is not against the law.

>> dumb idea, not illegal. >> to get him to come outside of his house to turn it into a domestic disturbance thing, i have a real problem because i have seen this happen a lot with white people and black people. >> geraldo: sc, final statement on this. >> i have the utmost respect for reverend sharpton but people in his generation see race everywhere and people in my generation have moved on. i think we are a little tired of that kind of language. >> geraldo: al, last statement. >> i don't know what generation that is because i think. >> geraldo: it's younger than i am. >> well, if you look at the fact that this officer said he was looking for two blacks and lady that made the call said she never said that then i think we still have to deal with this. i agree with them, abuse of power i said on my website could be what this was until he injected black on his police report that the caller said i never said. >> geraldo: got to go. coming up, the inside story of

the awful murder case involving the pregnregnxxpl

>> at first she left the house and she was going to a friend's >> at first she had left the house sanctions going to a friends house and marlo earl prayer and then she said that she was getting added to the store, she came back to the brought me some things and then left and she called me and said she was having pains and then she called me again and said her water had broke. i told her to call an ambulance and go to the hospital and then i didn't hear from her again until like 2:00 in the morning when she said she had the baby. >> she had the baby. that is the boyfriend of the 33-year-old massachusetts woman named julie corey who alleged

murdered 23-year-old darlene hayes and then ripped her 8 month old fetus from her womb and then brought the infant with her to a new hampshire homeless shelter where she was discovered and arrested along with the guy, alex deion, her boyfriend. he was subsequently released. their reporter joins us from boston now, along with brandy la rose who knew both the victim and the alleged perp. first to you, good interview there with alex. but, is this a standalone case? is this just a bizarre crazy woman who did something that she is copying from news accounts of other similar this is just a bizarre, crazy woman who did something she is copying from news accounts of others similar grisly stories? >> if you're asking if she has a criminal record, i don't know. i don't know what her criminal past is. what she is capable of. the police are definitely not

tipping a hat in their case. other charging where that this point is kidnapping. as yet the dna tests have come back to mecca louisiana boston studio to randy la rose. how shocked do you and do you believe that this woman is a view nutjob and that julie corey is really crazy? >> she has to be. what was she doing with that to give i didn't believe she was pregnant, yes. i touched her stomach and kicked me like two days before this happened somehow did that happen. >> she had me fooled. exactly. why did she take the child to a homeless shelter in new hampshire, do you know? >> i have no idea. i think she was going up to her father's house because she house is given as new hampshire semanticist alex teran clean committees in congress in on this ticket boyfriend to give. >> i don't know. he believes she

was pregnant too. he told me. he told me he believed she was pregnant smacking of the victim, birmingham started in the personal she? could she have a partner to give them actually used about with roberto rodriguez. but then >> geraldo: in the chaos, i restraining order put on him. >> in the chaos and amount dr. michael diamond in boston has a microphone on neck wear here two mankind as an amateur deliver a baby like this. she killed woman, straddler then -- how do you do that you can only keep baby alive to get. >> first have to make sure that mom doesn't resist, by attacking the mother out somehow. but back in caesar's time called the cesarean section, because back in caesar's time it would do a caesareans section and mcbeth, shakespeare used the same sections as an important part of

-- connected dysfunctional 33-year-old woman in a homeless >> is it that low tech? >> it is low tech. >> i'm sorry to interrupt, geraldo. you know, ms. corey is a woman who has had between five and six kids herself and she told people prior to. >> geraldo: wait a second, she has had five or six children and kills a woman and steals her baby? >> i know two were living in guatamela. >> she had one kid living with her now but this is a woman who has been through multiple childbirth and told neighbors that she was going have añcwcw