see you tomorrow. [captioning made possible by fox news channel] >> the dow jumping in july and ending the month on a strong run. is our commander in chief taking credit for the turnaround? >> we helped the recession from becoming a depression. elizabeth: not everyone agrees. let's get to it. we've got a great gang here. the bulls and bears this week, gary, tobin, eric and mark. let's get to it. is the president right that they saved us from a depression? >> unless he was ben bernanke and paulson in september, no! i'm just shocked. whether you like the tarp, didn't like the tarp, whatever, the crunch time of this deal was september 15 to maybe october 15. that's where we could have

fallen off. that's where $700 billion -- we had a run on the banks, on money market accounts. for him to claim this is for me to claim i'm the new jenny craig guy. elizabeth: kristen, set the stage. all collapsing last fall. can the president take the credit? >> absolutely not. think he had something to do with stepping in. and that's great. but if he's like waving the flag, mission accomplished, ain't happened yet. elizabeth: mission accomplished moment, eric? >> we've been talking about this for a long time. recessions last, i don't know, 18, 19 months. this is going to come out of recession. the real question is next week. we're going to have jobs numbers. if the unemployment rate is 10%, what is he going to say then? elizabeth: mark, let's get some fairness here. i want to ask you this. >> thank you. elizabeth. the commander in chief did say, look, straighten up, g.m. he said to the c.e.o. you got to

go. the president did help the auto industry, no? didn't he help rescue the auto industry? >> he absolutely rescued the auto industry. one of the things people don't want to give obama credit for is the idea he stopped a greater bleeding in the economy. he restored confidence in the economy. he produced opportunity. he saved jobs. that's something had a helps stopping moving us from a recession to a depression. the point obama was making is we would have been worse if he had done nothing. elizabeth: what about the intervention, tobin? >> he was putting a band-aid on it. if the claim is he saved general motors by putting $80 billion of taxpayer money into a business that should have failed, then i want to be his history writer. it's going to be creative. >> my point is there are no problem-free solutions here. no one is saying that obama's economic strategies were perfect. however, he certainly stopped the bleeding. i don't see how you can't give credit for that. when you say he had nothing to do with it, things are bad. you say he had everything to do

with it. >> thank goodness we have the doctor of anthropology on to enlighten us on that. i love you, brother, but here's the thing. all the jobs that he says he's creating or saving, these are short-term jobs. these aren't long-term, permanent jobs. they're hiring a worker to work for maybe a week or so until the project is done and then they're going back to the unemployment line again. >> but you're missing the point. but eric, every long-term strategy that he put into the tarp you all said wasn't immediately stimulating, you had a problem with it. elizabeth: gary gare b. what u think? >> i not only agree with my comrade brother mark, but i compiled a short list. he prevented two world wars. he prevented a meteor from hitting new york city. and he also prevented the biew bonnic plague -- biew bonnic plague. the point is it's impossible to improve a negative. mark says, oh my gosh it would

have been worse. how do we know it would have been worse? you talk about the job savings at g.m. i'll tell you what. down the line, how do we know what other industries are prevented from coming up because that money was spent on g.m -- >> bingo! >> oh my god. you are now -- >> 100 years ago why didn't we save the horse and buggy industry? elizabeth: christen, go ahead. >> i think it's amazing that obama is rearing his head and taking all the credit. but at the end of the day, let's make this very simple, it's about jobs. people are at home trying to make their cobra payment. they're not working. there's no job creation. he's waving around saying, look, it could be worse. it's not going help me when i'm out a job. >> jobs are created. mark, this could be a little out of your zone here. jobs are created. >> right. >> they play that capital with the idea of making a profit. in order to do that, people are brought in to make that happen. government doesn't create jobs.

they tax or spend. they don't decree -- capital creates jobs. end of story. elizabeth: mark? >> i'll stretch out that tone to say creates allowing people to have credit, small businesses and individual families does help produce jobs, innovation and the great things you're saying obama didn't do. you can't have it both ways. you can't blame him for anything and then not give him credit when there are highs. >> i'm not blaming him. i just think he's prematurely calling victory. >> he just said things could be worse. >> he didn't say things could be worse ex-said there would have been a depression, for crying out loud. >> the last time i checked, a depression is worse. that's exactly what he said. he said, i don't know if it would be 25% but it would be greater than 10%. i concede he may be being hyperbolic. >> thank you very much. >> my point is he's saying it may have been worse. >> we have never been hyperbolic

on this show. i don't know how you can make that claim. >> your middle name is hyperbolic. >> here's what i want to know. every time something's wrong, we get a bad employment number, bad housing number, it's eight years of failed bush policy. all of a sudden things turn up in the stock market, look what we did, created jobs, saved jobs. that's all the stimulus. is this, mark is this now the obama economy? is this finally his now? >> no. i mean i'm just an anthropologist, but i can say it's eight years of policy. you can't suddenly say that now it's july and everything that happened over the last eight years has been erased. it doesn't work that way. it's much more complex than that. tobin will explain it to you. the point is obama does have some credit here. does he have to bare some responsibility, no doubt. but he inherited the deficit. elizabeth: what we have is the

president $3.6 billion budget, $77 billion systemious plan. his argument is i inhe inheritea mess. does that give him license to spend more money? >> not forever. what's the statute of limitations on how long he can blame the bush era for the problems we have? he stepped in at the right time. and let's give him credit for that to regulate. that's great. but as far as fixing it and claiming victory, huge issue. >> if it's fixed, why don't you send back the other $700 billion we haven't spent yet there's a great idea. >> it's going to a good cause. >> you have ben bernanke, love him or hate him, when it came to crunch time, it was bernanke and the fed that actually did all of this stuff that he's claiming credit for. elizabeth: we have to leave it there. that was a hot one. thank you. stay tuned. the two biggest anti-wal-mart groups team up to take down wal-mart. why that's great news for

wal-mart and america. and then on to your stimulus dollars, paying for what? funding porn, perverts reviews, toilets, all of the above? take a wild guess and stick around for the crazy answer.

now more "bulls & bears" straight ahead only on fox. elizabeth: wal-mart's two biggest foes joining forces. wal-mart watch and

wake-upwal-mart.com. now one group with one goal, unionize our nation's number one private employer. do you think that would be bad for the retail king? gary b. says it couldn't be better. take it away. >> well, it just proves wal-mart's success. biggest wealth creator. one of the biggest employers in the entire global economy. they have done more good for more people than probably any other company in industry -- in the history of the economy. and i'll tell you what. when you have two unions ganging up on them it proves that you're doing great because unions are all about, i'm afraid to say, destruction. airlines, public school systems. elizabeth: mark, what do you say? >> one thing i agree with him about is that unions are certainly key toward destruction. destruction of comploitive labor -- exploi take thive practices. when you see two organizations come together, there's hope that we can destroy wal-mart which has had a vicious impact on local economies, small

businesses. elizabeth: hang on. >> they line up because big box retailers knock out local businesses. elizabeth: when wal-mart come into town, businesses tend to crop up around it. even burlington, vermont. people say in the states they like seeing wal-marts come to town. >> i really think wal-mart jumped the shark here. they wrote a letter to the obama administration alongside one of the union that say they're going to gang up on wal-mart and they said, you know what, we're for the national health care reform bill which basically says -- elizabeth: the employer mandate. >> right. but they haven't been in the past. it's been an antiunion wal-mart. they grew. they made themselves the heartland's retailer. and now they roll. elizabeth: back to the question. is this good or bad? >> i think it's great. if two unions are consolidating, that gives wal-mart even more power. and when are they not winning? i think it's very bad for the unions if they're starting to

have this solidarity. >> but let's not forget. wal-mart understands that if they don't get on the health care bandwagon, then other competitors maybe get an out. now they say we're all inclusive. and number two they're saying that gold plated health plans are going to have to be taxed. who has the gold-plated health plans in the union? elizabeth: we're going over health care reform on cavuto. eric? >> the blue dog democrats say we're fiscally irresponsible. everyone is supposed to be. it looks like the union unions e saying we're going after wal-mart. it feels to me that wal-mart jumped in bed with the unions. i don't like it. >> it's a checkmate. elizabeth: is it good or bad for wal-mart? >> it's great for wal-mart. they're saying, a, bring it on. these unions have not been successful in 30 years. so the idea that they feel it's

strong enough to say bring it on to me says they know they got a checkmate. elizabeth: good or batted for wal-mart? >> great for wal-mart. they're not afraid of anything. we agree, honey. do you believe it? elizabeth: gary b.? >> it's terrific for war mart. the sad thing is if the unions have their way and win this fight, the wal-marts of the world are going go the same way as the airlines, as public education, as every other industry they brought down. elizabeth: mark? >> the unions are going to win this. whenever people organize and mobilize -- >> then we'll have another g.m. on our hands. >> no, we'll have workers rights, health care. >> that's great. >> wal-mart makes its money by exploiting workers. when you have workers organized -- >> is that why people line up to work there? >> do people have a gun at their head? >> they don't have an

alternative. >> there are people at wal-mart -- elizabeth: hang on! let mark finish. >> my point is that wal-mart sucked up so much employment opportunity that people don't have a choice. nobody wants to have below minimum wage. elizabeth: this is millions of people. >> but the data bears out -- >> when wal-mart comes in, people are lined up around the block to work there. if wal-mart didn't come in, where are all these other little businesses that these people could work at? they're not there. as pointed out, wal-mart develops a community and gives people their jobs, for crying out loud. why would you not want that? >> it's not that i don't want people to work at wall martd, per se. what i want them to have are living wages. if you look at sales associate and cashiers, they make lower than living wages. elizabeth: we have to leave it there. still ahead, earn's talking about cash for clunkers moving cars off the lots. but what about the stock moving up because of it? and which is stimulus -- a, b, c

or d? you may want to sit down for this one. the answer after

elizabeth: time for the answer for which is stimulus. it's d, all of the above. reviews, porn films and toilets flushing tax dollars down the drain. now lawmakers are talking about adding $88 billion more in stimulus spending. eric says this is crazy.

>> yeah, that's crazy. we only got through about -- 12% of it. they want to add $88 billion. look at this. $80 million went to the national endowment for the arts. they funded, you saw it on the screen, $50,000 to "thunder crack," a artsy, kinky horror flick that features four men, three women, and guess what, one gorilla. you want your taxpayer dollars going to something like that? elizabeth: no saturday morning g-rated show. >> and the director, by the way, excellent work. now, remember, this was never a stimulus plan to begin with. this was essentially an entitlement program that we put lipstick on and called it a stimulus plan. so, of course, this is a joke. of course this sort of stuff happens. a real stimulus plan -- i just got back from china. the g.d.p. going to 8%. that's a stimulus plan.

elizabeth: kristen? >> i like to watch the puppycam but i don't want my tax dollars going to that. what's next? jenna jamison the porn star? elizabeth: the president did say he want more transparency, an internet site to track this money. what happened it that? >> he hasn't been transparent. i'm not going to defend the indefensible. but this is different. this has been one of the more efficient uses. it's created about 6,000 jobs. it's also a drop in the bucket. >> for three months. >> eight jobs right there. and a porn website. >> that's a different kind of job, eric. i'm talking about something else. i'm talking about 6,000 jobs being created. elizabeth: what about the $88 billion more in stimulus spending that eric noted? >> well, i'll tell you what. look, first of all, even if there are jobs out there being created so that these jobs are going to be temporary, but these are the -- the ones we are

talking about here, very few jobs are going to be created in the arts industry. and even more so, why should we be funding -- why don't we give it to athletic teams or something else? we shouldn't be in that business to begin with. elizabeth: mark, what do you think of that? >> i am in favor of the clean toilets. i do think money should be spent on that. elizabeth: what about picking and choosing the industries that get the money to create jobs? >> i don't think obama is picking and choosing. we've been giving this money to the n.e.a. since 1935. every sitting president endorsed it. it's just today people decided to be outraged. when it was reagan or bush, people weren't outraged. i don't think obama does being selective. everybody does it. >> hang on. i still can't get over the fact that creating a job -- the liberals keep saying they're investing in jobs. if you take money that pays a guy a 90-day contract and the contract is over, you did not

create a job. you simply took some money, gave it to a person for 90 days, and -- you create jobs by investing long-term capital in an enterprise that hires foam achieve the goals. that's the only thing that creates jobs. >> i don't disagree with that. elizabeth: go ahead. >> the last word is it's silly. it makes no sense. this is the type of news that the american people get and that's what makes them not embrace this change. elizabeth: mark, quickly. >> it's not silly. it's not either-or. it's both and. you develop and establish short-term and long-term jobs that this project will do. elizabeth: you're invited to the "bulls & bears" beer summit but it's too early for booze. sorry, tobin. but we have a name of a beer on tap that could make you a 30% gain with no hangovers. you won't want to miss this. far than ever before? well now you can, introducing the new...

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elizabeth: predictions. >> the president had his own beer fest. i'm having my beer fest, 47th street. go with molson coors. still under valued. growing. i like it. elizabeth: gary b.? >> i'll tell you what, i don't think it's going above $50. i know tobin drinks something a little stronger than coors. elizabeth: gary b.? >> i'll tell what you. the cash for clunkers a.k.a.

auto bailout lives on. it's probably going to be a permanent program like social security, for crying out loud. autonation is the way to take advantage of an, up 25% by january. elizabeth: kristen? >> i agree with gary, for one time. >> there you go, babe. >> but i also like advanced auto parts. >> i like hers better. >> thank you. elizabeth: cash for clunkers is buying luxury cars with your tax dollars. kristen? >> with all this bad press for obama this weekend, i think he should just jet on out to vegas. who cares about martha's vineyard. i like wynn resorts. they had a killer quarter. a little low on revs but no one cares about revenue anymore. you have taxpayers and nightclub revenue up. it's a win-win. elizabeth: eric? >> i'm all for all the gaming sector. it looks good to me. ok. gild, the symbol. my son's at camp.

happy birthday, buddy. 20% of the kids have been sent home with the flu. some of it swine flu, some of it not. the point is -- i can barely breathe. >> i would send awe with a with that thing. take it off. >> this is going to be a bad season. elizabeth: kristen? >> swine flu coming back strong. i also like baxter, too. >> no, no. astrozenica, that's the big deal. >> tamiflu, they make tamiflu. elizabeth: gary b.? >> i like it. i would sell it at $55 though. and i love the outfit. elizabeth: thank you, doctor. thank you, guys. eric -- >> can i just throw this in there as well? i have a friend who works at the white house. they told me gates has a briefing file this high on swine flu. it's going to be big. elizabet