next. [captioning made possible by fox news channel] captioned by the national captioning institute --www.ncicap.org-- martha: welcome, everyone. trace: we are live, inside, and all over the news room. that is the national desk. they are covering america. this is the foreign desk. every picture that comes into fox news comes in through here at the media desk. those pictures will always be in those three on the right-hand side. in the top box, we are learning about what happened to an airplane that had to make an emergency landing because of turbulence. you will hear from a passenger who says that they were flung from their seats. cash for clunkers could be dead on the road. now it is up to the senate to

keep the program going, but now some democrats are saying that program does not make sense to them. in the bottom box, imagine no one on line and seeing a picture of your child on line, and then imagines seeing the picture because someone had put it up for adoption. martha: right now we are waiting for press secretary robert gibbs to step in front of the microphone. he is likely to be in the hot seat today as reporters try to pin him down as to whether there is a door opening on new taxes to pay for health care and reduce the deficit. some of the president's top in visors are saying it is not necessarily a question of if it will happen, but perhaps when. major garrett is inside the briefing room. do you expect that to be a hot topic today? >> absolutely.

robert gibbs has already been advised to embrace these types of questions. tim geithner and larry summers said that this was a two-stage process. that the economy needs to recover for early first before the administration will contemplate any taxes on the middle-class. however, both said they would not rule out the imposition of higher taxes, if that is what is necessary to have the economy recover and reduce the overall best said -- deficit. this is in stark contrast to what candidate obama's said on the campaign trail. he said that he would not increase taxes on you if you made less than $250,000. these officials were questioned if they would rule out any tax increases, and they said that they could not.

that could mean that tax increases could be on the way. they are not on the table now, but is something that the administration would look at once the economy shows signs of long-lasting recovery. martha: one question i have is if this was a calculated plan, or if it was a slip of the tom -- tongue? >> by now, we would have received a strong assessment from someone from the administer eye -- administration clarifying those remarks, if they were erroneous. clearly, this is not the type of a going away present democratic members want as they

go home for the summer recess. in addition to health care, they would probably not have questions from constituents about if they will see a tax increase. that is not the thing democrats want to discuss along side healthcare reform and the implications of that change. martha: very interesting developments. thank you very much. trace: in the meantime, ford motor credit same cash for clunkers significantly boosted its sales. they sold more than 450,000 vehicles in july. the idea is to trade in your car for a more fuel-efficient car. it was supposed to last for 90 days, but now if the senate does not agree to a green light an

additional $2 billion, the program could be shut down. >> if the senate does not pass the $2 billion, the program will be suspended. it is authorized through november 1, but if we do not get that money from the senate to match what the house has, we would have to suspend the program. trace: with me now is a columnist. you say they are destroying prickly good cars to find replacements. it is akin to burning down your home and getting the insurance money, and then building a new home. >> let us say you are responsible and you bought a car that had 19 mpg, and now you want to buy a car that gets 42 mpg. you get no subsidy. let us say you bought a car that gets 16 mpg, and you want

to go up to 22 mpg, then you would get a subsidy. it makes no sense from any perspective, other than to bail out the auto companies. that is why some democrats say that this is a blatant subsidy. martha: it appears to be that. let me play this piece of sound this morning from a car dealer in new york. >> i have stopped doing the deal. i have $45,000 in jeopardy. i hope i get the money. i think i am going to get the money, but i have stuff doing those deals. when someone comes into my dealer, i tried to convert them to a conventional sale. in most cases, it works pretty well. martha: the dealer should needs to put out the money.

he has his fingers crossed that he will get the money back. >> i spoke to one dealer and he said, if this is the way that the government will run the program, we are going to trust them with health care? talk about planning badly. the program may cost five times with the government budgeted for. trace: everyone is calling this environmentally friendly. you say we are taking used parts of the market to build a new parks. >> it would make sense to recycle older parts and making them greener, rather than destroying them. trace: thank you. america is clearly talking about tax increases. what do you think? our tax hikes to pay for these programs inevitable? foxnews.com or twitter.

martha: hillary clinton now asking iran for information on three american hikers believed to have been arrested there last week. the three reportedly contacted a friend and said they entered iran over the border by mistake and that they were surrounded by troops. the trio were visiting the northern iraq region. a security spokesperson said prior to their disappearance, hikers were headed to a mountainous area near the iranian border, which is on marked in some places. breaking new dealing with the pentagon and afghanistan. details for you. and lawmakers about to get an earful back, about health care

reform. we will show you an interesting turnaround in the latest poll numbers that ask what people really think about their current health care system. also, take a look at what happened in this town hall meeting in philadelphia. >> a government that cannot even run a cash for clunkers program is going to run 1/7 of our economy. martha: a fair and balanced debate is next. quality and reliability...

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martha: this just coming in. the pentagon press secretary has told us about a secret trip that robert gates took over the weekend with admiral mike mullen. they met the top commander in afghanistan, stan mcchrystal, as well as other top military brass, to make an assessment on where the new strategy stands. we will let you know if we get any more information from that meeting. in the middle box, lawyers for o.j. simpson are back in court today trying to convince a court panel to release him and co- defendants from prison. simms and will not be in court

for that today. -- simpson will not be in court for that to date. in the bottom box, possible locations for relocating prisoners from guantanamo bay. trace: that should be interesting. the airplane just dropped. that was from passengers on this flight from brazil. the plane was diverted to miami international after hitting clear air turbulence. clear air turbulence is nearly impossible to detect with onboard radar systems. we are speaking to our houston affiliate. have they made it to houston?

>> not yet. the next arrival is 1:15 p.m. there was one flight that arrives, but no one from that flight was from miami. apparently, being an international flight, they had all these people on the tarmac for about three hours. when they decided to do is take them off, have them go through customs in miami, and then allow them to come here. trace: we are going to be speaking to a woman that was on board. what do you know about what happened during that turbulence? >> the fasten your seat belt light was on, the cabin crew was moving around doing beverage service and what not, and

suddenly the plane dropped. at least once, maybe twice. anyone who was standing probably went up to the ceiling pretty quickly. that can be painful. no one saw this coming, but it happened without warning. trace: we are seeing different numbers about how many people were exactly hurt during the flight. do you have specifics? >> we are trying to nail that down. what we are hearing right now is 26. continental numbers have been a bit different. i am looking at a news release here that says seven passengers were transported, 28 passengers treated at the scene. we are trying to get these numbers reconciled. perhaps they are combining

passengers and crew. trace: back to you when we get that information. martha: while lawmakers are battling over health care reform, the american people are speaking out. this is a new poll from last season -- rasmussen. 48% of respondents said their current health care system is good, while only 19% rate it as pork. -- as poor. shannon bream is standing by from capitol hill. give us an update. there have been so many different plans going back and forth. the house went home for the resect -- recess. >> at least they got through

some important things through committee. the house will be working to get something out of that senate finance committee. everyone knows they have to go home without getting a bill done. we know democrats were disappointed about that, but they believe it is a good time to reflect can talk to constituents. in fact, they are encouraged to have town hall meetings to speak to people. take a listen to this when kathleen sebelius and arlen specter went home to get that feedback. >> i look at this health-care plan and i see nothing about health or care. [applause] what i see is a bureaucratic nightmare, senator. medicaid is broke, medicare is broke, social security is broke, and you want us to believe in government that cannot even run in cash for clunkers program is going to

run 1/7 of our economy? no, sir. >> that is not an isolated incident. we have seen this on more than one occasion. the all important gang of six will be back this week to continue to work on this. trace: i want to break into the white house press secretary conference. he says everything is on the table. apparently we are not going to listen. apparently he said we need to address the deficit, but the president is committed to his campaign promise not to raise taxes on the middle class. much more from robert gibbs as it comes in. i want to introduce our next guest, michael burgess, a member of the energy and commerce committee. we also have judy fader, from

the center of american progress. congressman burgess, the question that robert did just addressed, we know health care is expensive. we do not know how we are going to pay for it, but we are not going to tax the middle class. do you believe him? >> one thing people seem to forget about this bill is the taxes will hit the american people almost immediately. increases in coverage would probably begin after the next presidential election. trace: we are going to give you a chance to respond in a minute, but i want to listen to robert gibbs first. >> i do not want to get into

discussions amongst allies, hypotheticals, as we move to that date. >> [inaudible] >> we think it is important to do what has to be done in order to prevent iran from acquiring nuclear weapons. >> like what? >> they host of things, beginning with engaging directly with them so that they can live up to their other responsibilities. >> in terms of what geithner and sommers had to say, it was a lot of hypothetical. do they believe it is possible to have steps in reduction?

>> we can quibble about whether the word possible -- >> is it possible to do everything the president wants to do without raising revenues for the middle class? >> i want to state again that the president has made a clear commitment to not raise taxes on middle-class families. >> but if the president's own economist does not believe it is possible to do so without raising taxes on the middle- class, how it is that going to sit with the american people? >> there are a series of things that need to be done. i think you will hear an announcement from the treasury this afternoon about how much money to be borrowed compared to what they thought they would need as a result of financial stabilization. in terms of cutting the amount of money that is needed --

again, the president has been clear about this. the most important thing we can do right now is to get our economy growing. we know part of the reason the deficit is up right now is the economy has slowed down so much, tax revenues -- because of what happens in an economic slowdown -- have progressed. i think the president -- obviously, we are going to have to make some decisions down the road on some of the president's legislative priorities, some of the things congress wants to do, evaluate how we move back to a path of fiscal sustainability. >> did geithner and forsummers go off script? or they testing the temperature?

>> i do not know. >> the administration does not see a scenario where the middle- class could be hit with a tax? perhaps i could make that more precise. not just the middle class. >> let me be precise. the president's commitment is not to raise taxes on those making less than $250,000 a year. >> any implication that that idea is wrong? >> i think you have heard the president say not so long ago that he would not. >> you can imagine what people are reacting this way with summers and geithner saying that. >> well, i hope that you would

take my word. i am reiterating the president's clear commitment, in the clearest terms possible. >> did he speak to them about the fact that they did raise -- >> we spoke about a number of economic issues in the oval office. >> is everyone on message now that there will absolutely be no taxes -- >> that is a bar that is too high for me to leap over. the goal is to have our government back on a path to fiscal sustainability, lay in the long-term foundation for growth, and also, one point that i forgot that is important. within the very first month of the president taking office, 95% of americans received a tax cut.

that is everyone in the middle class. the president ran because, for eight years, the middle class had given the run of bad decisions. even when you saw positive economic growth, for the first time in history, wages for the middle-class declined. that is one of the reasons the president of the united states wanted to run for president of the united states, to protect the middle-class, cut their taxes, and make sure their voices are heard. >> the door is not open? >> i hope you will take seriously what i said. >> an update from senator baucus. have you heard anything from the senate committee? >> i have not. i do not think there were any

calls over the weekend. >> friday's gdp number. every time it seems there is a number, there is a revised #. lately, it has been revised downward. do you have any indication that this number will be revised? >> one of the things that was released on friday was revisions based on your economic modeling -- newer economic modeling. certainly at this point, i do not think so. the number is not more than one weekend old. obviously, one of the things we know now that we did not earlier is a clear handle -- as you see in these provisions --

the sheer depth of what we were facing economically. the positive growth that we saw in the second quarter was revised down sharply. the first quarter of 2008 went from a period of supposed economic growth to the economic contraction. then in the third quarter of 2008, we started to see just how deep a recession we were in, and continue to be. we take some heart from the number on friday that shows the recovery plan is having an impact on the economic downturn, saving and creating jobs.

we will get new jobs figures on friday and i do not think there is anyone that believes we are going to see several hundred thousand more jobs lost in this economy. >> [inaudible] >> i think a confluence of some of that. >> is the administration looking at fort leavenworth as a possible site for detainee's from gitmo? >> i do not know to the degree to which they have looked at specific citing. certainly, no final decisions have been made. i think we have made progress on dealing with a number of the issues that the executive order needed to be dealt with.

in reviewing the case files and deciding who can and should be transferred. but no final decisions have been made. >> on another issue, the 10 letters a day that the president gets from the correspondence office, does he receive letters that are critical of his policy? >> i guess. i would characterize most of the letters -- yes. i would characterize most of the letters as, and what he would want us to seek -- first, to get a representative sample of what people are worried about, and second, seeing and hearing from -- trace: that is the daily press briefing. again and again he said the president will not raise taxes on the middle-class. no one making less than

$250,000. did summers and tim geithner go off message when they mentioned this yesterday? let me bring in congressman burgess from texas and and judy feder. there will be no new taxes among the middle-class. but the bottom line is, the american people are speaking out. every time the america -- the president talks about health care, the numbers go down. the population does not like it. they prefer the current plan they have. >> i would take issue with that. the american population -- people that you and me meet every day. they are concerned about how health care is being out there in, and are concerned about holding onto their coverage.

no new poll takes account of the fact that people are living -- losing coverage, that they are worried that they will lose their home to foreclosure. even if they have insurance, they cannot afford health care. even though we know what we like, our relationships with our doctors, wanting to keep the plan that we have -- trace: but that is the bottom line. everybody wants to change, they just do not like this particular plan. >> it is hard to tell what the plan is coming from the house, to tell you the truth. we have not settled policy even after having our most recent vote. we need to settle about 50 items that we could not finish on friday. it is anyone's guess what this

will look like when it comes to the floor. martha: do you go along with this notion in terms of the economy and what is causing the deficit? we heard a lot from the treasury secretary and president, that one and that maine contributor -- one of the main contributors is health care costs. >> right now the number-one thing that is damaging to the economy is the job loss that we have seen. anything that puts a roadblock for creating new jobs, like employer mandate, for example -- these things are going to make it more difficult for small business to reestablish those jobs. i will just say this about secretary geithner. nothing happens by accident in

washington. martha: so you believe that he was planning this? robert gibbs -- chip reed asked him about opening up the door to taxes on the middle class. you believe they planned to float this message? >> things do not happen by accident in washington. that is one thing that i have learned. martha: if that is the case, judy, one question to you. you worked in the clinton administration and all of the good intentions to fix health care. do you see something similar happening right now? >> the need to reform health care is so strong. we have the three committees

putting bills through in record time. we are waiting for the senate. we are moving forward. on the issue of what the problem is, even the tax to the american people, and a barrier to growth, rising health-care costs is fundamental to that -- martha: we all have heard that before. you are right about getting something fixed, but the numbers show that this is a less convincing way to get there. >> actually, when the real information gets to them, they like it just fine. what you are showing, those are not spontaneous uprisings of voters. they are well organized events sponsored by americans for prosperity who have released a manual for their people on how to make their numbers look bigger, make them appear louder. they are in the way of getting

the real information. trace: let me interrupt you now. >> see? i cannot even get the information out. >> one congressman from your home state was run out. it was a town hall meeting, and he was run out of his own meeting. >> i am having two town hall meetings this weekend. i expect both sides to be fully engaged by the time i get there. there is something called a telephone tom hall, when you speak to people by the telephone. when i did that earlier this week, it was overwhelming the

people that were skeptical that they could not run the most basic of programs. no one believes that we are going to do what we say we are going to do. trace: thank you both. good conversation. martha: we heard from robert gibbs. he said the president is committed to his campaign promise of not raising taxes on the middle-class. so why are members of his administration floating a trial balloon, opening the door to the idea that when the economy recovers, they could possibly raise taxes to deal with the deficit?

trace: in the top box, funeral services for burden forced -- former boxer vernon forest.

and a chemical reaction in new bedford, mass. causes 26 people to be sent to the hospital. in the bottom box, mahmoud ahmadinejad getting support for his second term from the country's supreme leader today. martha, this is robert give us in the press briefing room. he has been fielding quite a few questions about the possibility of the administration changed its mind and increasing taxes. in the campaign, president obama said this. >> if you make less than a quarter million dollars a year, then you will not to your income tax, capital tax go off, not one

dime. martha: here is what two of his top economic advisers are saying now. first, tim geithner when asked about taxing americans as a way to bring down the deficit and pay for health care. >> revenues are on the table? >> we are not at the point where we will make a judgment. >> but you cannot rule it out? >> the country needs to understand we will do what it takes. martha: we are going to try to figure out what that means. this came in from lawrence summers. >> what the president has been clear on is that he is not going to pursue any of his priorities, not health care, not energy, in ways that are primarily burgeoning middle-class families. that is something that is not going to happen.

martha: primarily burgeoning middle-class families. you can see why this has a lot of people were read today. we have a former assistant to president bush. we also have a fox news contributor. are they in a pickle? >> i think so. they know they need revenue, and they see the deficit skyrocketing, and they have floated this trial balloon and it has gone in a predictable response. i think they are in a problem. with the recess coming up, i think it will be more of their problem. martha: clearly, we have been heading in the wrong direction for most of our lifetime. $784 billion in stimulus, and then health care on top of it, it is not like this problem just started. >> when the clinton administration left, there was a

surplus. when the bush administration left, there was a $500 billion deficit. that being said, you are right, there is an increasing deficit. we live in the real world. we have to pay for it one way or another. if you have massive increases in spending, which are proposed by stimulus and health care, you have to do something. democrats are looking for a way to get out of that jam. martha: the three most unappealing words for democrats were "no new taxes." we all remember the saturday night live routine. what do we have here? >> we have the president in a pickle. he said in the campaign that he

would not raise taxes. now his senior economic adviser is putting a huge crack in his plans. it will be new taxes, not only on the rich, but for every american. directly or indirectly. forget about health care. what about the trillions of dollars added to the deficit just on the economic program? look at what has happened as you reported earlier on the town hall meetings. people are not worried about health care, they are worried about putting food on the table. martha: let us talk about the language. tim geithner says it will be difficult. what i heard him say was that we all have to pitch in here to lower the deficit. is that the kind of solution, to

make people feel like they have to check into help out? >> apparently, the obama administration thought so. these accidental things do not happen by mistake. i think brad is overstating the pace come but the administration did open the door for the possibility. robert gibbs is trying to close the door, but i do not think that he closed the door on a plea for the final time. he made it clear it is not on the table now, but i do not think it is off the table forever. martha: he kept saying the president has been clear. he did not say we did not tell them to say that. one of the things i want to address here is there are a number of ways that you can tax the middle class. many would say cap and trade is

one of them. possibly paying taxes on health care benefits is another way. can they get there without an outright income tax hike? >> they cannot, but they can also add to the burden. cap and trade will cause their prices to go home at home -- go up at home. he does not necessarily have to raise taxes that much what all these other costs are being built into goods and services. one thing is for sure. you cannot have your cake and eat it, too. who is going to pay for all of this? not just the rich, but everyone in between. martha: so what do they do now? >> they have to find a way to shift the burden to insurance companies. business is going to pay, even though consumers ultimately bear the brunt.

martha: thank you very much. trace: we asked you earlier, our tax hikes to blame -- inevitable? here is what you have to say -- she went on to craigslist and found a picture of her child. not just a picture, but her child was up for adoption. what happened? i was in the grocery store when i had a heart attack.

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martha: cash for clunkers seemed like a good idea at the time, and they have sold a lot of cars, but robert gibbs says the program may need to stop if the senate does not continue funding. in the middle box, the family of scott speicher says that they will try to learn how he died now that his remains have been found after all these years. in the bottom box, the dow jones is up. some good news about manufacturing today. trace: stockpiling vaccines, closing schools and letting government employees work from home. desperate times call for desperate measures in california. -- in florida. state officials preparing for perhaps 1 million swine flu

cases, and they are not leaving anything to chance. how bad is it expected to get in florida? >> there are predictions it could get very bad, but right now there are some pretty big gaps in terms of what officials are but the thing and what is happening on the ground. the chief of plan deck planning says that this could get worse in the next few years and a quarter of state workers could be out of their office. >> you could see over a quarter of the population absent from work on any given day. we do not know if the virus is going to be better or worse than it was in the spring and summer. we know this virus has not gone away yet in the country. >> one real concern here in

florida, if a wave of infection comes during hurricane season. that would be a double whammy. trace: what exactly happens when school begins? >> right now the emphasis is on education, teaching children how to wash their hands, coughing properly, but also teaching parents. it might be tougher for some parents to keep their children at home right now, so here is what the florida education administrator have to say about that problem. >> parents are not as likely to keep their kids at home because that means they may have to miss work. we are trying to reinforce the fact that in order to protect everyone, we need students with certain some times to stay home. >> of course, the focus is on

schools here. after all, this is a virus that does attack the young. trace: thank you. martha: in massachusetts mother describing how she felt when she found her own child on a picture on craigslist saying that the child was up for adoption. she received an e-mail from a stranger saying that her child's picture was being used. she did not realize that her personal information was being taken. >> i did not realize how easy it was to be part of this and how easily your image can be used. martha: she did call the fbi. the ad said that her son was born in canada and was living in an orphanage in cameroon.

the website has shutdown and she has now put a privacy setting on her blog. trace: it is amazing. you put your child picture up there to share with everyone, but maybe you do not want to do that. martha: you always think that it is pretty safe, but once you put it out there, there is always the possibility. some company wants $300,000 to start the adoption? trace: by the way, a big story coming from new york. new york prosecutors say a grand jury has indicted texaco burris -- plaxico burress. in new york, and gun laws are very strict.

forget about his nfl career for the time being and think about his life. he is indicted on weapons sturgis. he could be spending some serious time in prison. -- weapons charges. looks like detainee's from guantanamo bay will be housed on american soil, and now the short list is emerging. who need

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trace: we begin with breaking news. [captioning made possible by fox news channel] captioned by the national captioning institute --www.ncicap.org-- 45,000 feet, and that their plan makes a sudden drop. an airplane forced to make an emergency landing in miami. the airplane flying from brazil to houston when it was rocked by turbulence. 26 people were hurt, four suffering serious injuries. 160 passengers and 11 crew members were on board. >> all of a sudden, the airplane takes a bit and then rises up. people are coming up on their seat, people are screaming. even some of the flight attendants were injured. trace: with me now is one of the passengers on board that

airplane. she was on continental flight 128. you are one hour out of miami, 500 miles per hour. give us an idea of what happened next. >> i was sitting in my seat and i felt turbulence, regular turbulence, and the airplane just dropped. i thought we were going to hit the ground. i turned around and i saw a lot of people flying out of their seat. there was an elderly man next to me that hit the overhead compartment. another woman broke a hole in the ceiling. trace: you talk about that sudden drop. some say it lasted less than 10 seconds. but 10 seconds dropping on an airplane is pretty significant. how long did it last?

when you say sudden, it was enough to trust people out of their seats, so we must have been pretty dramatic. >> it really felt like a roller- coaster. it must have been 10 seconds, 15 seconds. enough time to think about my family, my boyfriend. it was like the first drop on a roller coaster. you felt it in your stomach. trace: when it was over, you knew people were hurt. >> i did not know immediately after come but within a few minutes, the flight attendants who were still shaken up told us about a woman that was severely injured, and that is why we made that a landing. trace: a lot of people are concerned that something might be wrong with the airplane.

that had to be going through your head. >> for a second i thought it was engine failure. then i saw that there were still lights on, i thought it was okay. at first i thought that i was going to hit the ground soon, but apparently it was okay. it was amazing how mobile and it was just from the wind. trace: best of luck to you. thank you. martha: there is a new idea about what to do with guantanamo bay detainees. it is raising a lot of concern. the obama administration considering a plan to build a new facility for these suspects either at a maximum-security state prison in michigan scheduled to be shut down, or at fort leavenworth. the president has promised to

shut down gitmo by the end of january. we have the former deputy assistant secretary for president ronald reagan. president bush wanted to close guantanamo bay. president obama wants to do the same. >> this is a disaster. even if you found a place for all of these criminals, what do you do with the thousands coming from afghanistan, if we ramp up procedure there? the other issue is not where you put them, where do you house them, but what do you do once they are there? martha: i heard someone say this morning, you need a facility that can hold them, it takes pretty good care of them. you have a place for them to eat, places to exercise. we already have that.

it is called guantanamo bay. >> i understand wanting to close this place, but do not open it in the united states. when we do try them, we would need to give them full rights. i spoke to a former attorney general. he said in afghanistan we are reading miranda rights to a pow 's. when the bullets are flying, you cannot get around the rights and expect that these people will get full u.s. citizen rights. martha: these people are hardened criminals. there is a misunderstanding about why these people have not been tried. is there any way to declassify some of that information, so people get a better sense of what we are dealing with here? >> either declassify, or put

them in different courts. when president obama said that he wanted to close gitmo, he said he also wanted to close military tribunals. what are you going to do with them, run in prison or put them in the u.s. court system? martha, the court system is near and dear to our next guest, congressman moran of kansas. what is your reaction to the possibility that leavenworth might be a good place? >> absolutely not. we are working hard to make certain it is not the location. this is just one more example of the obama administration failing to understand this issue. they made an announcement earlier this year without studying the consequences. leavenworth makes no sense for a number of reasons. martha: give me a couple of them.

>> it is a war college. the intellectual center of the military. not only do we trained soldiers there, but soldiers around the world. it is a total disregard for the mission of that installation. secondly, it is not a maximum security facility. it would cost millions to upgrade the facility. people have this image of fort leavenworth as a maximum facility, but that is not the case. we are accustomed to housing military prisoners, so that means those prisoners would have to be moved somewhere. the administration has given this no thought. of course, congress has spoken, and we know about this because we read it in the press. martha: leaving guantanamo open? is that what you would suggest? >> it may be a different story

in michigan, but my belief is those prisoners belong in guantanamo bay. maybe there is something that need to be done with regard to their ability to make decisions about these people's future, but not in the u.s. martha: everybody wants to see this process move forward. 50 have been cleared to go all the we cannot find anywhere to put them. how many are left over? >> even if you deal with the ones at guantanamo now, what about the upcoming thousand in afghanistan? what they ought to do it is to not put them in the continental u.s.. put them in bagram. then you will be able to do with them off of the soil. i am sure we can do that.

you have this problem of not wanting them in the u.s. court system. >> this is just a bad idea. martha: thank you. we will be following this closely and see what happens. it sounds like mayor leaning to michigan. >> i would have to -- hate to have to face reelection in michigan. trace: america is talking about this. we want to know what you think. should we open a guantanamo- style prison here in the u.s.? foxnews.com or twitter. a u.s. intelligence estimate claims iran ended its nuclear program six years ago. now the new report giving a chilling reason why iran ended

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♪ into revolutionary performance. one word makes the difference between defining the mission and accomplishing the mission. one word makes the difference in defending our nation and the cause of freedom. how... is the word that makes all the difference. trace: in the top box, a grand jury has indicted plaxico burress on weapons charges. in the middle box, we are getting details about a secret trip in the middle east.

barbara day to and other top officials went to meet stanley mcchrystal to see the progress. in the bottom box, three people in critical condition after a chemical leak at a trash disposal facility in massachusetts. 26 people were taken to the local hospital, 10 of which were knocked unconscious by the fumes. no word on the cause. martha: swiss diplomats are trying to meet with three americans were arrested for straying across the iraqi border into iran. in the meantime, we are learning about who these people are. the officials have identified them as joshua fattal, sarah shourd, and shane bauer.

there was a fourth that did not go because he did not feel well. this was a very scenic area. apparently, in the midst of all this, crossed into iran. swiss diplomats are acting as a go-between with the u.s. since the u.s. cut off diplomatic relations with iran. trace: more problem with iran. a chilling report said that they already have the resources to create and detonate a nuclear warhead. all it would take is an order from the ayatollah. it was reported that they ended their nuclear program because of threats from the u.s. and western powers, but the report says the real reason the program was and it was because iran reached its goal and developed a way to detonate nuclear weapons. with me now is a senior fellow at the brookings institution.

do you buy this report? >> no, i do not. any country that is beginning to develop nuclear weapons is not going to be very good at it first. even if you think you like having -- even if you think you have a good design, it will probably not pass muster. there was a junior at princeton 30 years ago that came up with a workable design, and he was not even an a student. the theory of building a bomb is not very hard, but they need to be vigilant. trace: there is a lot of controversy in israel now. they are convinced that iran is either close to building a nuclear weapon or has the means to build one. if you are israel, what do you

do? >> that is a different question. i would agree with the israelis. that is why iran probably has some clandestine efforts that they are pursuing. i do not think that they would achieve its goal and then shut it down. i do believe that israel should be worried. this debate is alive and well. trace: you have american concerns with his rant -- iran, is really concerns with iran, and israeli concern over how the u.s. is handling this. they disagree with the president's policy against iran. some believe that we are pursuing this without a lot of pressure to end the program. >> i would agree the pressure has been erratic, but even

president bush denied israelis access to weaponry when they requested at the end of his administration. officials from both parties have recognized this is not easy to pull off. there are a lot of down sides to the military strike. i do like the idea of the administration thinking through the idea of gasoline embargo. preventing them from importing the gasoline they need. that will not stop their progress, but it may lead to more flexibility of of the iranian leaders. the bottom line is the military option has some advantages, but it is not the only one. trace: we're getting news of an earthquake in baja, california.

the earthquake was apparently 5.8 on the richter scale. that is pretty sizable. right now it depends on how deep it was and how far it was from populated centers. 68 miles north of santa isabel in california. we will get you much more on that. martha: we also have some brand new details about the top secret trip that defense secretary robert gates made this weekend. this is highly unusual. why the defense secretary felt the need to meet face-to-face with the military commander in charge of our operations in afghanistan. xxpx

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trace: this is 68 miles northeast of santa isabel. about 175 miles from the san diego border. an earthquake of 5.892.

that is a pretty good size. we do not know the extent of injuries or damage. we do think it is in a remote area. apparently they did not feel this in the southern california area. we will get you more information on this. martha: let us take a look at some of the action on wall street. after some good manufacturing news, lawyers for o.j. simpson. his lawyers are back in court today. they want to persuade the nevada supreme court panel to release him and his co-defendants while the jury reviews the conviction. in the bottom box, funeral services under way for three- time boxing champion vernon

forest who was killed in an attempted robbery. defense secretary robert gates did not spend the weekend at the beach this weekend. he traveled to belgium to have a set down to have an assessment of how things were going in afghanistan. he wanted to ask general mcchrystal about the possibility that more troops could be needed. i remember at one point they requested more afghan troops. and jennifer griffin has been working on this story all morning. was there an urgent need for them to get together this weekend? >> i have been talking to people who have been covering this building for many years and they say this is highly unusual for a defense secretary to have a very stealth meeting, meeting the joint chiefs of staff without any aides, flying to a

secret location in a third country. however, what i have found out since then it is essentially -- and this coincides with what the press secretary told us -- that gates wanted to get a firsthand assessment on where the strategy review was going. you remember general mcchrystal was tasked to come up with a review under the strategy should go, what resources will be needed to support the strategy. gates wanted to talk to him face to face. he did not want any leaks or pressure from the press. he asked that seven people be at the meeting. himself, and joins of chief, the general mullen, general mcchrystal, general david rodriquez, the top policy chief who was and ombudsmen to afghanistan.

also, central command commander general petraeus. now what i am hearing is this was planned one week ago. there was a move to bring general mcchrystal back to washington for him to report and give a preliminary report, but he did not want to leave the theater. he had a plan already and a meeting was scheduled at nato headquarters to push forward his right hand to take over some of the command of those nato troops. that was rescheduled sough, so took the meeting to him. it was an opportunity for them to listen to general mcchrystal about where his assessment was headed. jane: it will be interesting to -- martha: it will be interesting to hear what they

need on the ground. thank you very much. trace: new information on cash for clunkers. new information from the senate. if they do not act soon, the program could be gone. should the u.s. be spending another $2 billion on the auto industry? both sides of the argument next. having the right tools is crucial to being able to manage your diabetes properly. it's very important for me to uh check my blood sugar before i go on stage. being on when i'm feeling low can be like a rollercoaster.

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trace: brand new information on three big stories. first, the health-care debate. shannon bream is in washington, d.c. >> we are on capitol hill where the senate is getting to work before their own recess. the gang of six is still trying to negotiate a health care deal. harry reid said moments ago that all that proves is that there are three republicans who are

willing to work with democrats. republicans say that that is not really true and they have not really been invited to the table. trace: now to the heat in the country. janice dean. >> some summertime storms firing up across the midwest. there is one sl above missouri and illinois, above quincy, illinois. a severe flood warning in effect. a lot of heavy rain associated. across the southeast, some pop- up showers and storms. excessive heat warnings for parts of oklahoma, where we have triple digits again. trace: wendell goler is at the north lawn. maybe more money for cash for clunkers? >> maybe not. you might do well to buy a car in the next few days. the white house says that the

program could be suspended or ended. republicans are using the unexpected popularity to cast doubt on the government estimates on health care reform. there will be talks about how to keep both programs on track. trace: let me bring in mike huckabee. welcome to the show. we are getting word from reuters that the senate wants to billion dollars more for cash for clunkers. is that a good idea? >> sure, how about $4 billion, $10 billion? these people are going to get free government money. it sounds like a great idea, but one not the musical it is -- instrument industry? why select one industry and say that we are going to make you successful?

this is government manipulation and a giveaway at the expense of taxpayers and long-term debt. trace: this was supposed to last 90 days. it ran out in one week. what does that mean for the mathematicians in washington? you are taking care of the entire economy and this thing was that the office space. what does that mean for the numbers on health care? >> these are the same geniuses who told us if we did the stimulus package we would have lower unemployment, and they were wrong. the same geniuses who told us that we needed to create more debt and things would get better. now they want us to believe that if we keep throwing more money at this program -- but here is the problem, a lot of these people who can get loans, and get the cars -- i am not going

to blame them for getting the cars, but now we are going to be scrapping those older cars that we could be donating to lower income people. another example of why we do not want to trust the government. trace: what do you make of the government's backtracking on this tax debate? tim geithner and larry summers said that nothing is off the table. you have to do what you have to do. there was a balloon floated yesterday, and it got popped. >> i think it is an indication that this administration cannot be as honest and candid as they promised. we are seeing an opaque cloud over the reality. you cannot continue to borrow money and not pay it back.

the only way the government can pay anything back is to take money from the people who are producing, and that is the folks producing income. job losses are at record numbers. the president even admitted, probably in an unscripted moment, that we may have run out of money. martha: if you are sitting in the west wing, you must be thinking, we have a problem. we have taken off more than we can chew. how do you turn the situation around and make it productive? >> everyone knows that when you run out of money, you stop spending. then you start saving and you do not spend until you have saved enough. few have debt, that needs to be paid off before you incur more debt. these are fundamental to of

economics that someone does not seem to be paying attention to. the debt that we are amassing is going up higher and higher. the $1.60 trillion health care bill is not the whole story. the real cost of health care is going to hit in 2011, 2020. that $1.60 trillion, it will be multiples of that. that is where the real problem will be to our grandchildren. trace: thank you. martha: democrats and republicans have been battling over health care reform on capitol hill, each side of launching some fearsome attacks. it was not always this way. the debate comes one year after another health care bill was introduced in congress, a bipartisan effort. lawmakers said it would not add to the deficit. now some are asking where that plan is.

james rosen is in washington. a lot of talk about a new reform plan that has actually been around for awhile, right? >> yes, this strange and curious beast was introduced in 2007, called the help america act. this was first proposed two years ago and its breakthrough idea was not unheard of to the experts, but they never fully looked at how to and texture -- how to end tax benefits to companies. instead, individuals would be required to purchase their health insurance, virtually all americans would be covered. employers would have to face new taxes, but they would also not have to provide insurance. first of all, the cbo scored this plan as revenue neutral in

its first operations. they say that it may actually make money for the government. martha: a lot of people have raised this issue of having a portable plan that is separate from the government and your company that can be purchased. one group that is not crazy about this idea are the labor unions. they are already campaigning against the idea, even though some are a big ally of unions. >> there are some radio ad that are being planned that are not so friendly of the senator. he usually receives 100% approval from the afl-cio, so that must tell you something. >> the old model has been to say that the democrats say it is the insurance companies faults.

republicans say it is the trial lawyer's fault. >> we should point out, the bill has 14 co-sponsors from both parties. martha: we will have to take a look at it. thank you. trace: we told you about the earthquake in california, 5.8 magnitude. now they say another one has hit 3 miles south of tijuana. now they say the new earthquake was 6.9 magnitude. that is a monster. we are also hearing from the mayor's office in san diego confirming that some buildings were shaking downtown and that some buildings have been evacuated. 6.9 is about the size of the northridge earthquake. before hurricane katrina, that was the most costly natural

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trace: breaking news from southern california. reports that there was another earthquake in baja, california. that is right along the border between san diego and mexico. tijuana is the first city to the south. 6.9 was the magnitude of the second earthquake. there was another 5.8 earthquake. 6.9 would be about the size of the northridge earthquake that did billions of damage -- billions of dollars in damage in 1994.

no reports of damage or injuries, but we are hearing that some buildings in downtown san diego were shaking. that gives you an idea of how powerful the earthquake was. remember, it is about the magnitude and the moment it hit. if they are shallow, the entire landscape will do something like that. right now is in the middle of nowhere. the information is beginning to come in. in major earthquake striking in baja, california. martha: there is a saying, as california goes, so goes the nation. some hope that is not the case in this instance. california losing half a million manufacturing jobs. once a powerhouse in production,

high taxes and regulations have driven jobs out of california. all those other companies have found other places to do their business. if that method of raising revenues keep up, it could spell trouble for a lot of people. william la jeunesse is with us from california. why didn't they change course when they saw what was happening? >> this company is symbolic of the bloodshed. they basically turn our scrap metal into battle in the mess. -- metal ignus. the next shift does not come until 6:00 a.m. in the meantime, china is building a new plan every week. this study indicates california has lost 15,000 to 20,000 jobs

each year. neighboring states are actually gaining jobs. a hostile legislator and heavy regulation are to blame. >> this manufacturing is not only going to other states in north america, but primarily it is going to asia where they have no pollution control, no help controls. >> so the take away is this -- in fact, there was an engine plant down the streets that went out of business. if the u.s. and california wants to help these manufacturers, and they want to continue to compete with india and china, they may

need to change their regulations. martha: how do they think they can fix these problems? >> the legislator needs to look at how this will affect their manufacturing base. by the end of world war ii, one out of three jobs was in manufacturing. now it is one out of 10. also, there should be a deadline. if you tell me to do this, the government should have a deadline to get the permit done. if you cannot get it done, i should get a discount on the fees that the government had to pay. basically, making the government live up to their promises. martha: it would have to work both ways. the government should have to be accountable for their own deadlines as well. >> that is right. if not, the state would lose read it -- revenue.

they could be strung along forever. trace: in the meantime, breaking news from baja, california. there was an earthquake that struck their. the first earthquake am was 45 minutes ago. that one was moderate, 5.8 magnitude. the second one was massive, 6.9. the earthquake in northridge california was 6.7. before hurricane katrina, that was the costliest natural disaster in the history of the country. i want to bring in someone from the national earthquake information center. 6.9. that is a major earthquake. what do you make of that if it comes after a 5.8? >> it is not uncommon to have a

larger one after a smaller earthquake. in fact, there should be some reasonably large aftershocks with this size. this was a larger earthquake. we have about 20 of these per year run the world about this size. trace: if you are in that area, when crews arrived, they could be witnessing significant damage. >> that is right, but fortunately this one occurred away from population centers. the risk to the population is relatively modest. in fact, about half a million people probably felt it strongly, but we do not expect any significant damage. trace: this is the first we are hearing about the epicenter. you say that it was over the

pacific gulf. it was felt in southern california 300 miles away. we must repeat, no reports of any damage or injuries yet. what does that tell you about the strength about this? >> it was a larger earthquake that will be felt in the southern united states. certainly in the city center regions in baja and on the mainland. some of those towns were shaken significantly, but probably not at a level that would cause major damage. trace: thank you very much. martha: remember when bank of america let merrill lynch pay those bonuses after they had taken money from the government? now the sec has a government

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trace: more breaking news coming out of baja california. there has now been a third earthquake. the first one -- 5.8. the second one -- 6.9. the third earthquake, 6.0 magnitude. we were just told this thing hit in the gulf. this hit in the water between mexico and baja california. we're being told now that it was felt in phoenix, ariz., which has to be 400 or 500 miles away, and in southern california in san diego, which is 350 miles away.

this thing stands to be a pretty powerful earthquake. martha: the gentleman we just spoke to said you might feel aftershocks that were close to equal magnitude. do we know whether or not this is another quake or a aftershock? trace: there are clusters. usually, you have the major quake and then smaller quakes, the aftershocks. they can go on for hours, days, and in some cases, months. we have gone down, up, and back down. where it hit, there stands to be a great deal of damage. martha: what we also do not know is the direction these ripples are going in and where the next one might be if indeed there is one. we will have a lot more coverage coming up.

martha: lots of news breaking right now. senator john mccain now saying in the full senate vote he will oppose soon-to-be justice expected sotomayor. he says these activist judges assume moral legislatures, so john mccain says he will vote against sonia sotomayor. trace: thanks for watching. shepard: