thank you for joining us. [captioning made possible by fox news channel] captioned by the national captioning institute --www.ncicap.org-- martha: this is the "live desk." i am martha maccallum. trace: i am trace gallagher. this is where the news begins. if you swing over here, this is the foreign desk covering the globe. every single picture that comes into fox news channel comes in right here along the media desk. here on the "live desk" we begin with break-in news. martha: disturbing new information on what may have motivated a shooting spree at a pennsylvania health club. a man shot and killed a three women during the wounded nine others when he opened fire in an aerobics class in pennsylvania.

>> a lot of people started running around. i took off my headphones and i kept hearing boom, boom, boom. i heard about 30 shots. i started ducking down. i got out as fast as i could. i helped carry out one girl who was shot in the thigh. she kept saying she was going to die. it is crazy stuff. i am in shock. martha: the shooter was keeping a block ofblog the detailed his hatred of women. he also intended on the shooting month earlier. on january 6, he wrote this.

and then, look at this one on january 6 as well. we are going to talk to a witness to all of this in just a minute. first, rick leventhal in bridge bill, pennsylvania. do we know if anybody read this blog? >> it is not clear if anybody read through these ramblings. we did talk to the host provider. they said they did not know the content of the blog. they will tell us that the post was posted on that day. on the day of the shooting, he bwrote that he was practicing the routine. also, "i need to be completely immersed in something before i can be successful.

have not had a drink since friday. total effort needed. tomorrow is the big day." we have learned that the three women that were killed in the shooting behind the health club work 46, 49, and 36 years old. apparently, the older women went to the back of the class. he turned the lights off and started shooting into the room. martha: thank you very much. it is a terrible story. our guest on the phone had seen the gunmen several times before. jill, what went through your mind? >> you do not know what to think. when i was on my way to l.a. fitness, a couple of things slowed me down. i was not in a hurry that they. i was actually thinking about how fragile life is.

one of my good friends died over the weekend, and i was stingy about how fragile it all is. -- i was the key about how fragile it all is pure yet martha: what do you remember about this man before? >> i have seen him a couple of times. i made friends with everybody there. i am a very friendly person. i tried to smile at everybody. i distinctly remember smiling at this man. some people do not smile back. he kind of glared back. you do not think much of it. martha: what about the event itself? what do you remember? >> i was fortunate enough to be running a little bit late that day. my friend always meet me at the same time. we met 50 minutes later on a whim yesterday.

i was walking through the front door just like any other day. everybody came marching out. everybody was screaming "run." to my first thought was the there was a bomb. a man grabbed my arm and said come with me. we got in his car and he said uptoduck down. his name was don. he just drove away. we were trying to get out of there as fast as we could. my next thought was that i was meeting my best friend and i had no idea if she was ok or not. martha: and she is ok? >> she is ok. martha: what a horrible experience. it is a crazy, a terrible story. thank you for sharing your thoughts and experiences.

trace: i could not imagine. let's stay you updated on the other top stories we're watching. in the top box, shades of the cold war. two russian submarines, one of the coast of georgia. what they're doing and what the pentagon said. in the middle box, the commander-in-chief belling to pass health care reform by the end of this year. in bottom box, after five months in captivity, two american journalists are back with their families. laura ling and euna lee arrived in southern california today along with the man who helped negotiate their release, former president bill clinton. two american journalists were arrested near the border of north korea and china. they were sentenced to 12 years of hard labor. >> we feared that at any moment we could be sent to hard labour camps.

and then suddenly we were told we ever going to a needy. -- suddenly we were told we were going to a meeting. we were taken to a location. when we walked in the doors, we saw standing before us president bill clinton. trace: there is great relief that laura ling and euna lee are back on american soil. critics are concerned about what north korean gains in all of this. gov. bill richardson said this. >> the north koreans are very good at getting bargaining chips like this to attract a high- level envoy. we get them back. tensions are lessons. everybody wins in a small way. trace: the obama administration is making a distinction between the humanitarian mission and its diplomacy. >> on the basis of the

humanitarian mission, we feel very good. i want to be sure people do not confuse what bill did, which was a private, a humanitarian mission to bring back these young women with our policy which continues to be one that gives choices to north korea. trace: consider that when president clinton arrived, he was treated by north korea's chief nuclear negotiator. north korea is already spending this into north korea and communist propaganda. in march, north korea threatened to launch a missile tore away. -- north korea threatened to launch a missile toward hawaii. it has also conducted two nuclear weapons tests. jennifer, looks like a win on the humanitarian level. how did we do on the diplomacy

front? >> lookit who is smiling in the photos with bill clinton. it is not to bill clinton. it is kim jong-il. he wanted clinton to come back to north korea. he finally got his wish. he requested bill clinton come. the message came from the two women. they said there indications that if bill clinton would come, they would be freed. that is what got the ball rolling. if you look at the tweets that are sent out by the north korean government, there's no mention of the journalists. it merely mentions that former president bill clinton came with a message from president obama. the obama administration denies there was any message. we do know that the president was given two briefings before clinton took this trip. trace: to what extent did the

u.s. government helped to facilitate this visit? >> it was a minor in the sense that the air force refueled the plane on the way there. on the way back, they also refueled before landing in burbank. the u.s. military had to help the doctor on board the clinton flight because the doctor for got ithis passport to the mility helped with that. this was really a supporting role. the white house is trying to decouple any potential conflict of interest from this tree they say this was purely a humanitarian mission. trace: jennifer griffin, thank you. martha: not a great day to for your passport. if the cold war is long over, then why are russian submarines patrolling off the eastern seaboard of the united states?

the u.s. military has now confirmed to fox news that the russian submarines have been detected. the ones in question are a pair of vessels not big enough to launch nuclear weapons, but big enough to raise some eyebrows. steve centanni is in washington. it is not comfortable to have russian submarines in our backyard. what are we during for the reason? >> we do not know the exact reason. it is somewhat puzzling. the submarines have been monitoring the u.s. military. intelligence has been monitoring these submarines for the last few days. they're using aerial reconnaissance, ships, and underwater sonar sensors. this is all reminiscent of the cold war. these vessels are not the type that could launch intercontinental ballistic missiles. one was spotted off the coast of

georgia, another state much further north offer of free land -- off of dregreenland. they do not appear to be opposing any kind of threat. martha: they're awfully close. we will ask that question to the former secretary of state. what are they doing there? what is the purpose of the mission? trace: i cannot wait to hear his answer. she was stoned and trdrunk with her children in the back seat. she slammed into another car head-on. we have no information on how many drinks this woman have before getting behind the wheel. first, the white house proclaiming the cash for clunkers program is a huge success. >> over $600 million is out the door in just a week.

that is a pretty good record for a government program. trace: for now it is cash for clunkers. some lawmakers say what about cash for clothing? cash for appliances? is more money coming your way? .

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martha: here are some of the latest pictures coming into the fox news room. in the top box, supreme court nominee sonia sotomayor drop igg

some more supporters today. in the middle box, the families of the victims of that fatal crash in new york after toxicology results revealed that the mother of two of the children on that bandhad the equivalent of 10 shots of vodka in her stomach and was high on pot. her husband said that she was a social drinker and had smoked marijuana in the past. the woman, her daughter, and three of her young nieces were all killed in the trascrash. in bottom box, ahmadinejad is one into his second term as president of iran. trace: awaiting a senate vote on more funding for the cash for clunkers program, at $2 billion

more to be specific. the program is the $4,500 rebates from the fed for anybody to deny and gas- guzzlers for you official cars. the initial money is gone in a flash. >> $600 million out the door. there are lots of dealers around america, and i have seen many of them interviewed, and they're wildly enthusiastic about this program. trace: tennessee republican senator alexander joins us. is there a concern among you and some of your colleagues at the government is still picking winners and losers? we know manufacturing is down and retail is down. why not cash for dishwashers? >> you are right about that.

my first choice would be to reduce the deficit with the $2 billion. you're exactly right. reduce the deficit, not add taxes, and get the economy moving. trace: cash for clunkers is going to pass. it looks like $2 billion. what is your sense of the new program that comes down the pike? the stimulus funds have not come down the pike. what is next that taxpayers are on the hook for? >> i think the mood in the republican caucus and around the country is no more bailouts. let's hold taxes down. let's get the economy moving again. trace: there's a big concern about health care now.

i know you're a big advocate of not spending our grandchildren's money to fund health care. is there going to be a bill? the president said he is going to pass some kind of health care plan by the end of the year. do you buy that? >> it is possible. he could pass a bill today. there are 15 of us that support a bill that does not added and a penny. the problem is that he is trying to create government programs that would cost millions of people to lose the employer based insurance that they would really like to keep. he is on the totally wrong track. we would like for him to start over and come up with something we could support. trace: tennessee republican senator alexander. we will get the other side of cash for clunkers later on with

transportation secretary ray lahood. he will join us with his take on a very popular program. we've report, you decide. martha: there are all kinds of rumors about health care reform. a lot of those are put forth on the internet. that is linda douglass from the white house and she was responding from something she said was unfair. the white house is asking average americans to help them out to get the record straight. some people think the way presented -- we will tell you all about it when we come back. are you receiving a payout from a legal settlement

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trace: in the top box, and federal judge has order of the homegrown terrorists suspects to remain behind bars until trial. in the middle box, the lapd chief will be stepping down. he will build a news conference. apparently he will be working with a private industry. in bottom box, the problems with the post office. the agency announced it lost $2.4 billion from april to june. the postal service expects to

be $7 billion in the red at the end of the fiscal year. we talked about the possibility of hundreds of local post offices is shutting their doors. martha: some are asking if the president's administration is using somewhat big brother like tactics to police the health care debate. the internet is buzzing with all sorts of health care rumors and accusations. now the administration is asking citizens to pass along any information that seems fishy to the white house. molly henneberg is at the white house. what is being asked of american citizens? >> the white house wants them to help keep track of disinformation about health care. there's a paragraph on the white house blog that say to rumors often traveled through casual

conversation and thee-mail. the white house said -- president obama has now sent out an e-mailed to supporters, asking for them support for health-care reform, and making sure members of congress know he is counting on them to act. martha: conservatives see this as a little bit of a big brother tactic. there's a lot of back-and-forth in this debate. both sides accuse the other of having an organized effort to knock down the other side. >> conservative radio talk-show host rush limbaugh says the white house is "looking for tattletales, snitches, and

informants." the white house -- republicans point to a new "the wall street journal" and abc poll where people were asked about obama's health care plan. to 46% say it is a good idea. 42% say it is a bad idea. we just got a letter that the republican senator john cornyn sent to president obama. he says he has never been aware of any american president asking american citizens to report fellow citizens for anything deemed fishy. he wants to know what the white house is going to do and what action they intend to take against citizens reported to engaging in fishy speech.

there is a lot of back-and- forth. martha: thank you. trace: check out this picture. it looks like a pretty normal journalist, right? she works in sueudan. something you see in this picture is causing riots in the streets. the astounding punishment and her dramatic story in three minutes. having my identity stolen has taken more than money from me. it's taken my time. time that i should have had to be with my family.

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be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen. you take care of your kids, now it's time to take care of yourself. trace: we are back in the newsroom. we have new information on three big stories. in the top box, steve brown is traveling with the president in indiana. >> the president announced $2.4 billion of federal stimulus money to try to beef up manufacturing of something to the plea made in china. that would be electric engines. -- something typically made in china. the administration is trying to

be stuck uef that up. back to you. trace: to capitol hill and new developments in health care. james rosenthal. >> the latest battleground in the controversy over health care reform is not how best to keep costs down or whether or not there should be a government run health insurance program, but rather abortion. there are provisions that could see taxpayer funds used to cover the insurance for the procedure. republicans say that if it makes it into the final product, bipartisanship will be difficult to come by. trace: off to new mexico and chris appea. the border control has a new weapon. >> it is called a fob. it allows agents to respond more

quickly to the u.s.-mexico o border. it used to take up to two hours to respond from the closest asian. -- and the closest station tree that was four hours they were wasting. so far, this is working. they have already made six apprehensions and found more than 300 pounds of marijuana. martha: take a look at this. south korea since in the commandos -- foxnesends in the commandos. it was a dramatic day. hundreds of workers have been holed up inside the plant since mid may. they have been inside a very long time. they were protesting layoffs. the workers demanded their jobs back. the workers threatened to set the backdrop on fire. police have taken back all but one building.

and this is the scene of another clash between protesters and police. this is in haiti. writers are demanding that the government raise minimum wage -- rioters are demanding the government raised minimum wage to about $5 per day. in the u.s., the minimum wage is currently $7.75 per hour. there were clashes in colombia. police cracked down on a group of gasoline smugglers. four people were hurt by industry authorities say the gas smugglers have been illegally transporting gasoline from venezuela. venezuela has some of the cheapest gasoline in the world. trace: in sudan, a female journalist is on trial

fighting for women's rights. 44-year-old lubna hussein was arrested on a raid on a cafe in june to her crime was wearing pants in public. her job may have provided her with some immunity. instead of taking the easy way out, she resigned to challenge the law. brett joins us from the heritage foundation. she was arrested along with the 12 other women. 10 of those women have already been flogged. people are stunned that this still happens in some countries. >> it is really a testament to how intolerant sudan is. for something as simple as wearing pants or not wearing a headscarf. it is remarkable and is a sad. this woman is willing to

risk a much more severe punishment. trace: not just her. it is an important message. we're showing the video on the right-hand side of the screen. a lot of these women protesting are also being beaten. they're having tear-gas fired at them. does the stance by the sea when workers stand to change anything? >> it has the potential of helping out a great deal. it is attention to a situation that has been unnoticed. and the state department human rights reports and other reports focus specifically on this issue. now there's more attention on how abusive and how the press of the sudanese regime

is. they're beating people and using tear gas all because this woman had the audacity to wear pants. trace: indecency is the charge. it is a stigma in sudan. a lot of women privately accepted but charge and except the punishment of claudinfloggi. there are tens of thousands of women being abused for things like this. >> it is much larger than what you hear about treated this woman had not had a connection that she did, we probably would not be hearing about her right now. as you mentioned, she resigned from the un to try to weaken the case that she had immunity for this crime. instead, she is using her position to bring attention to this situation which is

extremely admirable. trace: we wish her luck. thank you. martha: this is reminiscent of the cold war. two nuclear-powered submarines from russia are creeping a little too close to the east coast of the united states. what exactly are the up to? that is next. 9?

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martha: fox news confirming that two russian nuclear-powered submarines were two hundred miles from the u.s. eastern coastline. one of them is close to georgia. the other one is not far from agreenland. two top generals rejected the idea they were involved in any kind of cat and mouse behavior. there were three sort of similar

events during the bush presidency. in august 2007, a russian bomber flew over u.s. naval base. in 2007, nato detected two planes. a week later, british jets intercepted two more aircraft entering nato air space. how should the white house respond to this situation? the former secretary of state joins us now. it is good to have you with us to the pentagon said they do not think this is a good deal. they are technically in international waters. what do you think? >> i do not think it is a big deal either. i guess you could guess around. it would seem to me that having two submarines show up all the sudden idea of disparate areas like that is nothing more or less than the russians deciding to put a submarine or two around to take a look at things. this is so unusual over the last couple of years.

i suspect they may have found some extra money in the budget or something. i do not think there's anything more to it. i do not think it is anything important at all. martha: take a look at a couple of the quotes from a russian general. martha: one of the main elements we have seen in the back-and- forth between russia is a pride issue. over the last few years, we have seen an acceleration of them wanting to put their stuff out there to show the world bareback on the scene. is that what this is? >> more than anything else, you

have got it. they have found some extra money somewhere. have these boats out there to try to show that they are still in the game. it is an issue of pride as much as anything else. otherwise, there's no explanation for two submarines with no purpose in mind. they're not missile submarines. their attack submarines. they cannot be altered to try to put the missiles -- they cannot be altered to put missiles into some city in the u.s. i suspect it is russian pride as much as anything. yes, it is their right to do it. now that we have seen them doing this, i suspect that is exactly what they want. they want to be seen doing it. i do not think there's anything significant to it. martha: he also brags about how there, and has only improved trade we have seen some selling going on. -- he also brags about how their

equipment has improved. who would they like to sell these to? >> they would like to sell it to anybody who would buy it. yes, it probably is a question of -- here are a couple of our submarines if you want to buy them. we are prepared to sell them. here's what they can do. you can see that we have them off the coast of georgia. that means they can go wherever they want. they are good equipment, if you want to buy them. if anything in this is clear, it is that the russians are not well off financially. they are in financial trouble. this is one of the ways to get rid of some of this equipment. martha: interesting. thank you very much for joining us today. now let's bring in the former director for russian and

eurasian affairs on the national security council. what is your take? >> i agree that it is not a cause for concern. just last month, president obama was in moscow and secured russian agreement to allow us to fly 4500 flights per year to supply our troops in afghanistan highly critical supplies like ammunition. at the same time, i do think that there is an opportunity here to begin a dialogue with the russians on what are the rules of the day when it comes to the issues that we differ on. that dialogue has to happen. if there is never something that is time sensitive or a crisis, you do not want to have to begin the conversation then. i think is an opportunity to engage with the russians. martha: we may see a bit of

staking out territory free to talk about the agreement that was made -- we may see a bit of staking out the territory. you talked about the agreement that was made. what would you like to see as part of the dialogue right now? what is very important between russia and the united states? we have had a pretty frosty relationship. >> we have had a frosty relationship. it developed that way in part because the previous administration used catchy phrases as almost a replacement for the policy. the new administration has come out with a much more coherent, fully integrated approach across the interest that we share an interest that we differ with the russian administration. those deal with long-term interests. i'd like to see washington and moscow set in place a framework

whereby on short notice, we could engage with the top leadership in the kremlin so there's not misinformation and paranoia that generates into something worse. martha: thank you very much. trace: 40 years after the murders but shook the country to its core, we will talk to the man who prosecuted charles manson all those years ago. and an update on a story we brought you here on fox. the man raising funds to pare service dogs with wounded veterans. and do you know when and where we began using dogs as guides for the blind? it is our must say fact of the day. the answer is next. . are you receiving a payout from a legal settlement

or annuity over 10 or even 20 years? structured settlements.

martha: hurricane felicia is s. her name. she is a major category three storm, strengthening and gaining some steam far out in the pacific. centered about 1,30 miles west-southwest of the southern tip of mexico's baja peninsula. meanwhile, tropical storm enrique losing a little steam. enrique at this point. in the middle box, paula abdul announcing that she is not coming back as the judge on "american idol" for the next season. that's going to cut down on some of that fun sparring that we used to enjoy between simon cowell and paula. in the bottom box, former philippine president corps sedan aquino laid to rest today. hundreds of thousands of filipinos waited for hours in the pouring rain to bid farewell to aquino, the hair window of the 1986 people power revolution. trace: a world war ii veteran has been raising money to pair service dogs with wounded soldiers back from the wars in iraq and afghanistan. after an appearance here on fox

news, his job got a whole lot easier. phil keating is live for us in our south florida newsroom. hey, phil. >> hi, trace. it's gotten a whole lot easier thanks to the generosity of so many people all around the country. since we first aired the story about the world war ii vet, irwin stulgraf who spent the past two years raising $2 million the hard way trying to get the service dogs for these wounded veterans, he has received more than 100 letters, checks for several thousands of dollars, and his website, vetshelpingheroes.org has received more than 10,000 hits. it's a tremendous program. these dogs are invaluable to these veterans. they cost anywhere between $30,000 and $50,000 to train, but these dogs can help not only those that are blind or with physical disabilities, but also those with emotional and psychological disabilities, many of which will last for their entire lifetimes now that they are back from getting wounded, say, by a roadside

bomb over in afghanistan or iraq. these dogs can tell if somebody is about to upped go a seizure. they can tell if their breathing rate, their perspiration rate is changing. they can get help from others around by barking loudly when they detect it. every veteran we have spoken with who has now obtained himself a nice golden receiver. super well trained. after meeting cash up in boca raton, just the sweetest dog, they are providing companionship on top of it all. it's really great. if you're interested in helping, you can go to the website, vetshelpingheroes.org. there is a link on fox news.com as well. since we broadcast the story last monday, even fox news.com has received a whole lot of hits specifically on that link. it's certainly an issue that a lot of people are tapping into. these are tatis coming back after serving their country, needing help. there is no federal program to do so. incidentally, representative ron klein of florida and senator al franken of minnesota both have bills in congress

right now to provide some federal funding, to provide these dogs automatically to these wounded veterans. they pass through the house. it's waiting after the august recess for the -- it passed the senate. it's waiting for the august recess to go through the house. then expectedly it will be signed perhaps later this year. trace: it's a great program. phil keating reporting live from south florida. just go to foxnews.com, and they will walk you through it. great stuff. martha: everybody pitching in and helping out. that brings us to our brain room must-see fact of the day. the modern use of guide dogs began in 1924 in potsdam, germany. the government trained the dogs to serve as guides for blind veterans of world war i. trace: meantime, sex, drugs, movie stars, and brutal. the -- and murder. the brutal killings masterminded by charles manson who directed his family of followers to slaughter seven people in a los angeles home. next the man who put manson behind bars. upward, no matter what.

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martha: this is "the live desk." i'm martha mccallum. trace: i'm trace gallagher. we start with a brand-new story you have not yet seen today. martha: two men arrested accused of causing a frightening ride for a train full of commuters in long island, new york. a train conductor let the passenger drive the double-decker train. 400 people were on board.

we're told the train hit speeds of more than 80 miles an hour. it blew through seven car crossings while this other person was driving, a pedestrian crossing, and amazingly, there was no crash, nobody was hurt. these two people have a lot of explaining to do, though. catherine herridge is live in our d.c. bureau. this is a shocking situation, the kind of thing we keep hearing more of, catherine. >> it's true. right now, martha, i'm trying to gather some statistics to put this incident into context, but it appears to be another striking example of the risk commuters are taking without even knowing it. the allegation as you mentioned is that july 2 during the rush hour, the driver of that long island, new york, commuter train was heading into new york city and he allowed a passenger to operate the train over a 25-mile stretch of tracks and at some points he reached speeds of up to 80 miles an hour. 400 passengers were on board at the time, and although no one was hurt, that doesn't really change the facts according to the d.a. on this case that it could have been a mass casual ity, martha.

martha: what are the charges, catherine? >> the two men including the train's engineer who was suspended after the incident are facing charges of reckless endangerment in this case. that was when we put up the mugshots again that we had gotten just a few minutes ago. can you see the two men who were identified as the driver, 40-year-old ronald cabrera and the passenger, 47-year-old william kuch. it's unclear the relationship between the two men, but the d.a.'s office says the passenger is a regular on the railroad and perhaps it was that familiarity with the driver which allowed this incident to happen. what's interesting to me, and we're checking the reporting, if there is a conviction in this case, both men would each receive only one year in jail for the incident, just one year in jail, which would appear to be a slap on the wrist considering the d.a. says that they put the lives of 400 people in jeopardy. martha: that's basically a weapon when you consider that train in somebody else's hands. catherine, thank you very much. >> you're welcome. trace: we want to bring in transportation secretary ray

lahood. he is here to talk about cash for clunkers. mr. secretary, while i have you on the line, did you hear catherine herridge' report? this is astonishing for a lot of people like me who ride the train every day. can i get your comment on what just happened? >> when people get on trains, planes, or in automobiles, they want it to be the safest possible way that they can be transported. transit districts and trains -- train companies need to train their employees that safety is the number one priority. when they violate that training, when they violate those rules, harsh and swift action must be taken. there is no excuses. this -- it's the way it has to be because the public really demands that and should. trace: but it's always action after the fact. i'm digressing a little bit. we go back to these train accidents, texting, sleeping, all these things. it seems like we only enforce after the fact. the enforcement seems to be awfully lax across the country

when it comes to our railroads. >> well, look, it goes back to hiring good people and training them and getting them into a mindset that safety has to be number one. if you can't find people that are willing to be well trained and to do -- to carry out these safety measures, then they shouldn't be employees of train companies or transit districts. they shouldn't be driving buses. and they shouldn't be driving trains. we just have to demand the very highest standards for safety. we believe that. and i think generally speaking transit districts and bus companies and others believe it also. i believe that. trace: if we can move on now to cash for clunkers, it looks like the senate will pass this. it looks like $2 billion more will go into the program. that's $3 billion on top of the $80 billion we have already given car companies. no matter what you call this, $4,500 rebate, this is just

taxpayer money being transferred to the car companies. is this the government picking winners and losers? >> well, i think the money, the $3,500 and the $4,500 is actually going to people who walk in a show room and bring a gas-guzzling vehicle in and buy an automobile that gets much better gas mileage. it's a lot about better gas mileage for cars that are going to be on the road and getting rid of the ones that burn a lot of gasoline. but the car manufacturers were going to go under if the obama administration -- trace: a lot of people are going to go under, mr. secretary. there are a lot of businesses in this country about to go under. a lot of businesses in this country would like some money thrown their way. it seems the car companies got $800 billion. go ahead, sir. >> 95% of americans got a tax cut. that included a lot of small business people. the idea that only one group of people got money is not accurate. a whole range of americans

benefited from the economic recovery, including 95% of americans who in many instances are small business people, got a -- got a tax cut. and that was a part of the economic recovery. all the money did not go to one segment of the economy. it just didn't. martha: secretary lahood, martha maccallum here. a lot of people look at another $2 billion. they say the government is broke. we have a huge trillion-plus dollar deficit. at what point do we start saying no, we can't give you any more money because we don't have any more money? >> well, look at, this is not newly appropriated money. this is money that was transferred from one account to another. it was money that has already been passed by congress. it was put in to some programs, energy programs, and the congress decided to take it out of that pot of money and put it in to the program called cars that will provide the rebate. martha: i hear you, sir.

we have a trillion-plus dollar deficit. moving money from one pot to the other doesn't change that. at some point, a lot of people in this country are feeling and we're hearing this in so many different ways. they want the bleeding to stop. so when they hear $2 billion more so that they can give -- so peter can pay paul $4,500 for a new car, a lot of them think it's nuts. >> well, i can tell you this, there has been 180,000-plus automobiles sold and americans are going into show rooms buying cars, salesmen are selling them, automobile dealers are open, mechanics can still keep their jobs, scrap yards can stay open. those are all americans that are benefiting from this program. martha: what about the fact that a large portion of those cars are japanese? should that play into this at all in that equation? >> a lot of -- a lot of cars that are -- that have maybe a foreign name on them are manufactured in america. honda is.

nissan is. toyota is. by american workers who are making a good wage, making automobiles that americans want to buy. trace: but i think the point is, mr. secretary, you're not spreading this out. why would you pick the automobile industry and not give money to the appliance industry, or not give money to the retail industry? other industries that are hard hit in this country, why not say ok, we're not going to give anybody any money or we're going to give everybody money? >> because you all have been running stories for many, many months about how the automobile industry is going down the tubes. show rooms are closing. salesmen are losing their jobs. this is a big segment of our economy. we have thrown them a life line. this has been the life line that really has brought the automobile industry back. and helped a lot of americans keep their jobs, whether they are salesmen or mechanics or scrap yard operators, a lot of

americans are benefiting from this program. trace: mr. secretary, thank you, sir. martha: thank you, sir. we all watched this morning. it was a moment that many feared might never come, but today two journalists held captive in north korea back on u.s. soil and in the most heartbreaking -- look at this moment today when you watch this family reunited. it took place around dawn at california's bob hope airport. that's euna lee with her daughter and her husband. behind them, laura ling embracing her husband. they were visibly exhausted and understandably emotional. five months in captivity. laura ling saying they thought at any moment they could be sent off to a hard labor camp. they raced down the staircase to their waiting families, which was a huge relief, of course. now the question where do these two nations go from here? joining us now is gordon chang, the author of "nuclear showdown, north korea takes on the world ." gordon, great to have you back. clearly kim jong-il got what he

wanted in terms of the picture of bill clinton with him. he was number within on his list of people he would like to come visit him. that was splashed all over the papers of north korea today. >> certainly they wanted those photos for stability purposes. it shows kim in charge. it shows that bill clinton came to north korea to talk to the north koreans instead of the other way around. that was really important. but we had our photo op, too. as you say, it was those two journalists coming back. this is the image of a government doing everything it possibly can for its own citizens. that's a takeaway image, too. much more powerful than kim's. martha: how does all of this play into -- we heard hillary clinton clearly saying there is no linkage here between other nuclear issues and what happened. she said my husband went as a private citizen in hopes of bringing about this outcome. >> you know, also, the white house did talk about -- there was a spokesman who did talk about how other issues were discussed including the nuclear issue. it's inconceivable that clinton could go to north korea and not talk about anything else. you know, this nuclear issue

dominates our relationship between the two countries. i'm sure it was discussed. i'm sure there is going to be follow-up in the weeks and months ahead. trace: the former president knows as well as anybody that north korea, talking to them is often futile. back in 1998 when he eased the sanctions that have been in place for 50 years so they would no longer fire typo dong missiles, thanks for the sanctions, here go the missiles. >> that was to take the pressure off before the north koreans actually disarmed. hopefully the obama administration is not going to make that same mistake. when jimmy carter went to pyongyang in 1984, we saw this great dawn opening up. now people are seeing the same things. there are structural reasons why north korea and the united states have had bad relations for 60 years. if you want to boil it down it's because they have a hard-line military government. martha: what's the one thing you would say to do now to reinforce a strict stance with this country after this is over? >> i think what we need to do is talk to our friends in the region, japan and south korea, to sort of make sure we keep

this resolute stance and the financial sanctions on the north. we can't let up for the reason you mentioned. you let up for a moment and the north koreans are going to do something bad. martha: gordon chang, everyone enjoyed that moment this morning watching those families reunited. that was a great outcome. trace: it was a massacre that shocked the nation. charles manson and his followers going on a two-day killing spree. murdering, among others, a pregnant hollywood starlet. we'll talk live with the man who put manson away and wrote the definitive book on the murders. "helter skelter" 40 years later. he ran off with his secretary! she's 23 years old!

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[captioning made possible by fox news channel] trace: we're awaiting a news conference on the deadly gym shooting in pennsylvania. the gunman killed thee women, then himself. he also kept a very detailed diary that led up to the rampage. we'll bring you this event when it comes down. martha: it was the summer of 1969, 40 years ago. on august 9, followers of an aspiring musician and cult leader named charles manson went on a murderous rampage. savagely killing a beautiful actress, sharon tate, and six others. now fox news is taking a look back at the crime that at that time shocked the entire nation.

how manson turned his young followers into cold-blooded killers. our next guest prosecuted charles manson. he also wrote the definitive book that chronicles this case. everybody, i know, probably read "helter skelter." we're very proud to have with us today vincent bugliosi who joins us on the phone. >> happy to be here. martha: when i look back and read through what you have written about what happened here, the most shocking thing, it was a time in this country's history when a lot of kids were changing the way they felt about things. parents felt very out of touch with the changes their children were going through. they were dressing differently and listening to music their parents couldn't relate to. this group of young people who ended up following charles manson who you reminded me wrote a couple of songs that were sung by the beach boys and other popular bands at the time, is able to commit this

unbelievable, these young people, these heinous, heinous crimes. tell us about that time. >> well, the mantra of the counterculture movement, martha, was peace, love, and sharing. many people feel that the manson murders sounded the death knell for the hippies and all they symbolically represented. joan diddy in her memoir of the era called "the white album" said -- in a "new york times" article just a couple of days ago said the same thing that the 1960's, the so-called decade of love ended abruptly on august 9, 1969, the night of the tate murders. the reason for the sociologic implications here is that prior to these murders, martha, no one identified hippies with violence and murder. just drug use and free love and peace. and then the manson family comes along looking and living like typical hippies but

actually they were mass murderers. that was their religion, their cradle. they wanted to murder as many people as they could. and this shocked the nation. particularly it was shocking when we learned the backgrounds of these people. they came from average american homes, fairly good backgrounds. completely different from what we would expect of mass murderers. it terrified -- shocked the nation and terrified the people here in l.a. there were people back then, i'm told, i remember, that would not lock their doors at night in certain areas of town here in l.a. that all stopped with the tate-labianca murders. martha: i hope we can show some of the pictures of the so-called manson family. as you point out and as you have written so extensively about, they look like everybody's kids. they look like like your -- like your next door neighbor's kids. that was what was so shocking about this. tell us a little about what happened on these two nights, about the extent of these murders. >> well, to summarize the murders is pretty hard to do,

but manson sent his killers the first night to the former home of doris day's son with instructions to murder everyone on the premises. that night sharon and four others were brutally stabbed to death. three of the victims were also shot. the second night was a little different. manson originally accompanied his killers. they drove throughout the city of l.a. looking for victims completely at random. ultimately stopping in front of the home of a husband and wife, labianca. manson sent his killers into the home to make the killings as brutal as the previous night. seven people were brutally murdered, stabbed to death. a total of 169 stab wounds. and i have to tell you that the manson family was not about to stop. they claim they offed 35 people. they already had plans to murder people like frank sinatra, liz taylor, richard burton, steve mcqueen, tom jones. this was their region. he got them that way.

these murders would never have occurred had it not been for charles manson. let me also add this. they would not have occurred if these people did not bring down that night. manson never told them either you kill for me or i will kill you. there were people in that family, martha, equally subservient to charles manson. they would do anything in the world for him but they didn't have the guts in their system to kill a fellow human being. martha: they wrote "pigs" on the walls with these people's blood. they stabbed them, leaving kitchen utensils in their bodies. and sharon tate who we showed a picture of a moment ago, she was a beautiful woman, the second one in those pictures. a young actress married to roman pulanski at the time, she was pregnant. >> manson, when the beatles came out with their white album, came back to the ranch all excited, the beatles are telling it like it is. helter skelter is coming down. several words printed in blood

came directly from beatles' songs. pig came from the song piggies. "helter skelter" is a beatles' song. the word "rise" was printed in blood. there is a song where the beatles are saying the black birds should rise up and fly. manson says the beatles were telling the black man to rise up against the white man. it's an extremely bizarre case. i think that's one reason among so many others why at this very late date people are still fascinated with this case because the murders were probably the most bizarre murders in the recorded annals of american crime. martha: vincent bugliosi prosecuted them and did such an excellent job of really logging and writing about this period in our country's history. vincent, thank you very much. trace: he is right. i grew up in southern california at that time. it changed the entire landscape. people were locking their doors. people were freaked out. it ended the hippie generation as we know it. that was the longest trial in california history. it went on for nine months. bugliosi claimed that charles manson's ultimate goal was to ignite a racial war in this

country. martha: an amazinging and horrible story. this friday can you learn more about the shocking case at 10:00 p.m. eastern. greta van susteren hosts "summer of evil, the manson murders ." that is this friday night only on fox news. trace: it gives soldiers, even firefighters, a serious advantage. now an old concept in warfare is being tested at the border, allowing agents to stay close to the action and remain safe. new technology next. @=h

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martha: the deadly shooting that would be almost impossible to imagine if it hadn't happened last evening at a pennsylvania gym outside of pittsburgh. where a gunman walked in, put down his duffel bag as if he was going to join the class. this is the man they believe carried out these murders and started shooting. it was a deadly, bloody scene. we'll bring you the live news conference and get the very latest on what they know about this man, why he may have picked this place and what might have driven him to commit these acts, if he indeed carried them out. we'll take you there live. trace: in the meantime, a fox news exclusive. the border patrol in new mexico giving us a brand-new look at a weapon. it's called the forward operating base. it's kind of a living space that gives agents more time to patrol our southern borders and keeps them safe at the same time.

kris gutierrez is live for us in lieu in a county, new mexico, to kind of show us how all of this works. hey, chris. >> hi, tracy. look behind me. this is about 3,500 square feet of residential space. inside there is everything from dorm style rooms, they sleep in bunk beds. a kitchen, a place to watch tv and things like that. when they are not inside the to be, they are actually out patrolling. in fact, can you see right over here to my right, your left, you can see some agents on their a.t.v.'s are heading out as we speak. they use those a.t.v.'s, also go on horseback. the main objective for these guys is to look for footprints. boy is this a difficult job. the survivor in charge is going to show us exactly what they are looking for. you see how they walk through the sand right here and the foot print of his boot. you think that's easy to find. not so fast. look at agent pettis here. he is walking across in a booty. you see what the booty leaves behind? essentially nothing. that's what a lot of these illegal immigrants and drug

smugglers are using. things like those booties. even see what this survivor phillips has for us. they use this sponge type of equipment on top of their chews or even something that makes it look like hoof prints are walking through. it's extremely difficult for these agents to do their job. the better they do their job, the more creative the bad guys get, obviously. but this f.o.b. itself has been operating three weeks. the supervisor in charge will tell us how successful it has been. >> in just over three weeks, we have apprehended six narcotics smugglers and over 600 pounds of marijuana. in addition to that, incidentally, the turn effect is one of the big things we need to focus on as well. just more permanent law enforcement footprint we have created out here. >> that's one thing that really you can't gauge right now is exactly what you have deterred by having the facility here. people see that and they don't want to come this way. look at this video here. we were with some border patrol agents that actually made an apprehension. in this video here, he was

actually hiding underneath some brush which is extremely again for these border agents to come across. they were actually using the light of our cameras to find and get him out of there. lo and behold, we learned this morning that this guy was actually arrested and apprehended before, so he will do some hard time. guys, back to you guys in new york. trace: kris gutierrez live for us in new mexico. fascinating stuff. thank you. martha: a very scary story. a possible american jihaddist suspected of being involved in ordering an attack on the military. he almost got away with it. his chilling words and the reason that the u.s. is now watching this possible terror leader very closely. >> more of your children and more of your neighbors an anyone around you to send people like him to this jihad, it would be a great asset for us. martha: the man known as, quote, the american and what his latest plot may mean for security here at home. there is breaking news right now on the deadly fitness center shooting in pennsylvania. moments from now we'll hear from the police and how they are doing with this investigation and just what

happened in that gym.

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trace: it's the bottom of the hour. we have brand-new information on three big stories. sonia sotomayor getting more support. shannon bream on capitol hill with that. >> we're continuing to watch the senate floor as senators take to the dais and talk about how they are going to vote on sonia sotomayor. there is not much mystery about that. by this time tomorrow she could be voted in as the next justice of the united states supreme court. however, the big mystery that continues to unfold is how many republicans will break from the party and vote for her. well, today senator kit bond became the latest. he makes seven republicans that will now break with the party and join their democratic colleagues on the other side of the aisle in voting her in. they could make history tomorrow. trace? trace: shannon bream live in the rotunda. the russians apparently got bored. what do they do? put a couple of attack subs off the u.s. coast. steve centanni is following

that. >> the pentagon says an international sub patrolling the coast of georgia does not cause any alarm. he says we have operated the same way off the coast of russia. he notes this is the first time in a decade the russians have shadowed the u.s. in this way and it is moscow trying to protect its force around the world. trace? trace: steve centanni live in d.c. we have a major hurricane out there. let's get live to the weather center. rick reichmuth with an update. >> we have had a pretty calm atlantic hurricane season. we now have the sixth storm here. that right there is felicia. you said 150 mile an hour sustained winds. out here in the atlantic. at this point, no big concerns to land. five or six days, potentially hawaii may be in the path of this storm. probably not as a hurricane. maybe a 40-50 mile an hour wind maker. it could be a lot of rain across parts of hawaii. that's what we will watch

closely the next few days. trace: those are brand-new stories at the bottom of the hour. martha: a group has emerged on the scene that terrorism -- people who watch terrorism very closely are concerned about. now we can tell you that five members of the al-shahad terror group were arrested in australia. they were busted by 400 police officers who were involved there. they formed a plot to bomb a sydney military base. this terror group is a group we all need to have a better understanding of. it's known as al-shahab which is the youth. it is suspected of having routes in several countries like lebanon and parts of africa. also having emerged in australia as well. one of their leaders, the american. what can be done to prevent something like this from happening here? we have a fox news channel terrorism analyst and vice president of research for the foundation of defense of democracies. tom mcinerney is the former vice chief of staff and fox

news channel military analyst. general, welcome to both of you. the more i read about this terrorism group and the fact that they have this young man who speaks english as easily as he speaks arabic and seems to be something of a leader in this group, the more concerning it becomes. tell me what you know about this young man. does anybody know where he's from? >> he's from the united states. within military circles, they have a pretty good idea of who he is. i don't know precisely and that information has not come out publicly. there was some talk earlier that he had fought in bosnia or that he had been in bosnia in the 1990's, although it's not clear at this point if that's substantiated. he looks fairly young on the video he released earlier this year. he also released a very famous communique in early 2008 where he talked about being in line with the religious med methodology. he specifically cited these al qaeda leaders as being his own influences. >> shahab is the organization,

it seeks to bring in lots of young people into the fold. there is a video i watched of him in an s.u.v. traveling through somalia. just like hoards of children coming around and waving and being very excited to see him. general mcinnorth americanny, there could be a link between the group in minnesota that we know went to somalia. how much is somalia emerging on the scene here? how concerned should we be at home about attacks here from this group that is linked to al qaeda? >> great question, martha. the ones picked newspaper australia or somalia. we have had several somalians, immigrants, upwards of 20 missing from minneapolis. what we're seeing is a lot of somalian immigrants, they go to the united states, they go to australia, they go to germany. then they turn to radical islam which is an ideology. it's not a religion. they have taken and perverted the religion of islam and radicalized it as the american

has. in this particular case, he was not an immigrant, but that's the common denominator between all of them. it's the common denominator between al qaeda, hezbollah, hamas. you go around the world and you see these radical islamic groups that have turned their religion into an ideology with the jihad and indiscriminate killing. so it is very worrisome in the united states and it's very worrisome globally. >> martha: it's very frightening when you watch these videos. you look at the beirut bombings back in 1984 of the military base. you look at what was thankfully thwarted at fort dix in new jersey. are we doing enough to protect our military bases from these kind of attacks? >> i tell you that australia is in a much worse place than the united states is to protect its bases. in the u.s., you will have a mix of contractors and also military men defending the bases, they are all armed. in australia's case, you have

unarmed civilians who are guarding the bases. these unarmed civilians if they were attacked by the plotters in this case, they would have been killed. they wouldn't have stood a chance. there is a discussion now within australia as to whether they should change the situation and actually have armed members of the military guarding the bases. when you are trying to guard against terrorism, which is the scourge that could strike anywhere, you need to be on the lookout for things like this and adapt a terrorist plot. it's a no-brainer that if you have guards at military bases, they should be in the military, they should know how to use their weapons and have weapons. martha: thank you very much. it has been an alarming rise of this group that's affiliated with this somali terrorist group. we'll keep on top of it. trace: the breaking news coming out of bridgeville, pennsylvania, just outside of pittsburgh. our fox affiliate there kdka has set up with a news conference. this is concerning george sedini, the 48-year-old man police believe went on a

shooting rampage at a fitness gym last night filled with women. he began spraying bullets. he killed three women, including himself. and apparently kept a very detailed diary of the days before this shooting. kind of laying out the problems he had with women. let's get live to rick leventhal who has covered this from the get-go. a disturbing picture emerging about george sedini. >> it is, indeed, trace. we're waiting to hear from the allegheny county executive and the police superintendent. they should be approaching the podium any time now. one of the questions that we will have for them is did they know about this website that he kept? did they know that he had these blogs? were the blogs available to anyone to read prior to yesterday's shooting? he had talked -- rambled on that website about his plans to shoot up the gym behind me and about chickening out on more than one occasion. those ram buildings appeared today. the question is whether or not

anyone who logged in there could have seen those in the past. and whether or not police had any idea that this man might have been plotting such a crime. trace? trace: any idea, rick, if we know what's going to come out of this press conference. new information maybe about the shooter, about what happened inside that health club? >> i think that we may get some more forensics information. we may find out more about the victims, where they were shot, where they were in the room when they were shot, the conditions of those victims. we know that three of the women who were shot have died. we have given you their names. heidi overmeyer, elizabeth gannon, and jodie billingsley, a 48-year-old woman, all of them living around this suburb of pittsburgh. nine other women were shot. this bhan was a member of the gym. he had gone in there twice before with a loaded gun, plotted to shoot women in that very exercise room and as he put it chickened out. last night about 8:15, about 15

minutes into the dance class, he walked in there, stood in the back of the room, reached into his bag, turned the lights off and began shooting. and of course mass chaos ensued. trace: i want to go over some of the stuff you have been reporting all day, rick. he said women just don't like me. he goes on to say he hadn't had a date since 2008, that he hadn't had sex in 19 years. he says there are 30 million desirable women in the united states, and i cannot find one of them. clearly, this guy was off balance. >> well, he said he hadn't had a girlfriend since 1984 and he couldn't figure out why. he thought that he was normal. and good looking. and i guess a catch. but when you read what he wrote on that blog, it paints a very different picture. he said on that blog on monday, i took off today, monday and tomorrow, to practice my routine and make sure it is well polished. i need to work out every

detail. there is only one shot. also i need to be completely immersed into something before i can be successful. he says i haven't had a drink since friday about 2:30. clearly he had a drinking problem. total effort needed. he wrote tomorrow is the big day. anyone who reads that and knows that he says that he chickened out twice before wonders why didn't he chicken out again? i spoke to a number of witnesses, trace, as you probably know who were in the building, heard the shots. in many cases, thought it was a racketball being hit off the wall. they couldn't imagine that someone would walk into their gym and open fire. trace: we're still waiting for the news conference to begin. once it begins, we'll get to that and back to rick with breaking information. meantime, police in chattanooga, tennessee, firing dozens of shots, killing 32-year-old along zoe hayward. neighbors say he was roaming the neighborhood for hours, threatening to kill himself. now many in the community want to know what exactly happened that night. revenue say lasalle with weef breaks down the dash cam video. watch.

>> this is the video from inside the car of officer lauren baca, one of six officers who responded to seventh avenue more than two weeks ago on reports that a man was there holding a rifle, threatening to commit suicide. that man is alonzo hayward. officer baca is wearing a wireless mike. what happened next is on this recording. >> he is drunk. tried to kill himself. >> about 30 seconds after someone gives the officers that ominous warning, you hear a pop, followed by screams, and then gunshots. [screaming] >> there is a pause of seven seconds, but the shooting is far from over. what you're about to hear is more gunshots, then another pause, and then even more

shots. >> i got you. [screaming] trace: according to the medical examiner's report, hayward suffered 43 bullet runeds from the 59 rounds fired by police. let's bring in psychiatrist and fox news contributor dr. keith ablow. i don't want to get into, dr. keith, whether police used excessive force, appropriate force. we just don't know. the investigation is in the early stages. clearly this was suicide by cop. he went out there with a gun. at this point in time, you're waving a gun, you have cops around there, something bad is going to happen. what's the mindset of somebody like that? >> no question, trace. here everything in his mind was that his life had ended. he had resolved that he was going to take his life.

remember, this is a man who had wandered the neighborhood, pointed a rifle at himself, talking about suicide. that's what's in his mind, but he is not doing it at home. he is not hanging himself, he is not overdosing. he has this lethal weapon with him. that's the difference. trace: dr. keith, stand by, if you would. you can give us some perspective after this. we'll jump into the news conference happening now in pittsburgh concerning the health fitness shooting last night. >> are with them and for the recovery of the individuals that were injured. i'm also going to ask everybody to keep everyone that was affected by these shootings in their prayers over the next couple days, weeks, and months because this is going to be a long recovery for a lot of people. i also want to recognize a few people that are with us here today. you're going to hear from a few of them. then we'll open it up for some questions. as you know, you heard from him last night and i want to thank charlie for doing a great job, for getting us through this in the last couple of hours. the superintendent of allegheny county police, charlie moffett

is with me today. pat valentine, pat is with the allegheny department of human services, deputy director office of behavioral health. gary betuccio, township manager. he is with us today. he will say a few words before we open it up for some questions. chief tom devin. chief, i want to thank you for being with us today. i know this is tough times for you. a few things that i want to go over before we open it up. the county police, they are continuing to investigate this tragedy and provide support and assistance to the -- to collier township. the medical examiner has identified the deceased as conducting autopsies today. the crime lab is processing evidence from the crime scene as we speak. the department of human service is providing counseling to the victims and their families. the county has arranged for counseling for anyone who has been affected by this tragedy and would like to speak to a trained professional.

here is where i will ask for some of your help. there is walk-in counseling. it's available at 437 railroad street in bridgeville. there is a number they can call. 412-221-3302. that address is 437 railroad street in bridgeville. also result crisis network is also providing walk-in counseling. that number is 1-888-796-8226. and anyone who directly witnessed the shooting or the aftermath inside the fitness center can contact the center for victims of violent crime 24 hours a day. their number is 412-392-8582.

there will also be a press release handed out that will give information from all of the departments within the department of human services and the services they are providing. trace: you can just see we lost -- some technical problems there with the news conference. they are talking about, of course, the shooting that happened. when they get it back, just let me know, producers. the shooting that happened of course at a gym, a fitness still. let's go back to the news conference. just outside of pittsburgh last night, three women killed. the shooter turned the gun on himself. let's go back and listen. we don't. ok. let's go back. we have dr. keith ablow on the line with us as well as rick leventhal. dr. keith, i guess you're the best person to ask about this. this guy had a detailed log of what happened before the shooting. he clearly had some type of vengeance against women, saying that he hadn't had a date since 1984, hadn't had sex in 19 years, that he couldn't get a date and considered himself a normal guy. you walk into a fitness class

filled with women. there is some hate running through your body. >> yes. there absolutely is. this is really a projection of internal rage where he is taking out his feelings of impotence, really, trace, on these women. he has the gun, firing away. it's scored up, pentup frustration. this guy probably had some real oddities of behavior and thinking. trace: let's go back to the news conference. they are talking about the guns used. listen. >> he has been positively identified as george sodini. his picture is up on the wall to my right. from every indication that we have had and from the investigation thus far, it indicates to us that -- or shows us that mr. sodini had this intent to do this harm to these individuals. he had no relationship with anybody in that club that we

know of. he went in the club and just opened up firing and ultimately shot 12 people. we have a listing of all the victims. on the same list as mr. sodini. we'll provide that list of names for you rather than me standing up here reading it off to you. it gives you the name of the victim, the three that are deceased and the others that are -- that were injured by gunshot wounds. trace: still having a little fade from the audio feed now coming out of our affiliate. as soon as that clears up, we'll bring that back to you. is rick leventhal still on the line with us there? again, let's go back to dr. keith in the meantime. we're looking at the handguns here. this guy came in guns blazing. he fired 50 shots. i mean, we're talking about someone who had this thing well planned. he said on his web log that his

date of death was august 4, was yesterday, so he knew that he was not coming out of this building. >> absolutely. look, trace, both in the chattanooga case, mr. hayward and in this case, you have people on the last page of their life stories. the story has been written. they are going to take people with them or they are going to go alone, but the bottom line is their life as they see it has ended. if you were to try to extract someone from a situation like that in terms of negotiating with someone, you would have to have the opportunity to open up their horizons, to say there is more that they can't see. and so the bottom line here is two episodes -- and this shows how prevalent this is, of people walking in or milling about, intent on doing themselves in. in the hayward case, it's as much as 11% to 13% of fatal shootings by police officers are suicide by cop. now, this one at the fitness center could have turned into that if the police had arrived

sooner. trace: i guess it's the things we can't see, dr. keith. we're waiting for the news conference to continue. it's the things we can see. we don't know what goes on in somebody's mind. how do we keep ourselves safe when some guy walks into a fitness center and opens fire? how do you predict these things? you're in this world all the time. how do you predict this and how do we defend ourselves? >> listen, as a forensics psychiatrist, we have talked about this before. once somebody is in that fitness center armed to the teeth, there is not a whole lot we're going to do other than hope that the police get there in time or that there is somebody armed who can take him out. but the bottom line is most of these people most of the time have had interacts either with the medical system or the psychiatric system or they have lost a job and there has been an opportunity to reach out to them when people thought you know what, he is odd, he is peculiar, but he can't be a mass murderer, we can't be in the middle of a psychological thriller.

we have met enough times like this to know these things are more common than most people believe. you have to take action as early as people show signs. trace: dr. keith ablow, thank you very much. the shooter the police said was at this gym three different times before this shooting went down. martha: awful story. and this is one we have been watching, too. the world is facing its first pandemic in 41 years with the h1n1 virus or the more commonly known swine flu. it is very easy to get caught up in all the hype. here now to separate some of the facts from the fiction because we're all concerned about this is dr. manny alvarez, managing editor of foxnewshealth.com. we have a custom questions for you to help us with here mple the -- help us here with. the first one is the swine flu vaccine will give me the flu. >> we did the segment the other day, told everybody to get the swine flu vaccine. 9-1 people wrote back and said we don't want it because we're going to get the swine flu. it's a dead virus. you're not going to get the swine flu.

a lot of people say i usually get the cold or the flu when i get any type of flu shot. it's probably not the flu. it's something else. no, this is a dead virus. don't worry about it. trace: the other myth is wearing a mask will protect you? >> i see the pictures every time. you see some of the reports. martha: it makes you feel better, though. >> it doesn't really do anything. it doesn't filter out the virus. basically staying away from people or sick people is really the key of not getting the flu. it's not the mask itself. that's a myth. martha: we all should have bought stock in hand sanitizer businesses. they are everywhere now. >> hand sanitizers are very, very effective. use them regularly. it's as good as washing your hands with soap and water if that's an alternative for you. they do work. you have to do it regularly and use it. even if you're sick so you don't spread the virus. i love it. we have a whole story at foxnews.com, or foxhealth.com that you can really see all the different kinds of myths that

we have for you. you can go to foxnews.com, and we have the whole thing for you. martha: thank you very much, dr. manny. trace: on the heels of north korea's release of two american journalists, word that iran is now interrogating three americans held hostage there. how will the united states deal with tehran, especially since its hard-line president has just been sworn in for another term? and if you have questions, by the way, for dr. manny, can you post them on our website. it's at foxnews.com/health. everything you ever wanted to know about medicine at foxnews.com. . this is another. new total blueberry pomegranate cereal gives you 100% of the daily value of 12 essential vitamins and minerals.

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when you use our meter, which means greater savings... for people with diabetes, like me. now that's a true american value. accu-chek® aviva. born in the u.s.a. martha: thank you for being here. trace: studio with sheppard smith starts right now. shepard: we have new details of the shooting at the gym in pennsylvania the gunman walked into an aerobics class, turned off the lights, pulled out four guns, fired three of them, more than 50 bullets. in the end, three people were dead and nine others hurt. and then he killed himself. police say the gunman is this man, george sodini. they say he had all four guns and a suicide note with him at the time of the shooting.