next starting with the bulls and more. what's going to happen is you bears at jamie colby, will see that fuel emissions won't get anywhere near that reduction. in fact, this program might even thanks for watching fox news increase the carbon footprint. channel, real journalism, fair thank god, you know, it is just and balanced, keep it right here money, nancy. for the business block, next. >> what are you smoking? you think that the price of oil the unemployment rate finally is going to stay at same at $70 falls and stocks take off. a barrel and predicted to go the stocks soaring as the government reveals that the back up to $10o as soon as the national jobless rate is slipping from 9.5 to 9.4%, the economy rebounds, the price of oil will go back up. people aren't going to drive first job in 15 months. that much more. the president is saying we can they are going to drive to work and home. see light at the end of the >> they are getting an increase tunnel but that's no reason to in mileage. they have to dive more, right? stop the spending. if the economy is getting >> now that detroit is selling stronger, isn't that what we need to do? more fuel-efficient cars, it is good morning, everybody. cheaper to build them, the price this is "bulls and bears. goes down, more people can " let's get right into it. afford these hybrids that you talked about, so it is about gare write br smith and eric these hybrids. >> are they going to keep bolling and nancy skinner, building these cars that nobody wants anymore? welcome to everybody. the jobsless rate dropped. >> people want these cars! is it time to stop the spending? >> since we own most of g.m. and >> i think this is the one time

a hot of chrysler, what are we nancy and i will be in agreement because i applaud the obama thinking? this should be ralph williams administration. here's why, because of their ineptitude in getting almost 90 of the stimulus money out, they selling cars, for crying out have only spent about 10%, they loud. >> i take it all back. have not managed to damage the this is brilliant! >> finally! economy. low and behold, the economy has you know, what, nancy, you're bounced back on its own, so i very convincing. say take the other $670 trillion >> i'm in detroit. you got there and give it back >> that's what it all comes down to the american people, but of to. >> so, one man's whose, another course, they don't want to do that because they want to remake man's gain. how the president's poll numbers everything that we know, but yes, the stimulus should stop dropping may actually be why immediately. your stocks are propping. >> you know that's a billion, cheer clear not a trillion. >> you're right, you're right. >> do you agree with him? >> no. the stimulus is finally working. we take a dying patient. we give them antibiotics, give this is one way of getting vitamins and minerals.

them i.v., defibrillator and all of a sudden the tube breaks and we are going to pull them out and put a cigarette and whiskey in the patient's mouth. we still have 9.4% unemployment. this is another. the shovel ready projects, here new total blueberry pomegranate cereal gives you 100% of the daily value in michigan, they announced a billion dollars worth of battery of 12 essential vitamins and minerals. and new car technology. it is just starting. let the process work. >> eric, well, she does have a plus the bold new taste of blueberries and pomegranate point. jobs continue to be cut. with crispy whole grain flakes and crunchy oat clusters. >> oh, come on. total, a truly delicious way to get vitamins and minerals. we didn't even talk about the how are you getting 100%? $72 billion that the tarp banks visit totalcereal.com paid back. and get a free sample. you're talking $800 billion sitting there. they can stop. to nancy's point, no, you didn't - oh, come on. - enough! you get half. and you get half. give them penicillin, you didn't give them antibiotics. ( chirp ) team three, boathouse? ( chirp ) oh yeah. his and hers. you gave them a band-aid and an - ( crowd gasps ) - ( chirp ) van gogh? aspirin. by the way, if that fixes the ( chirp ) even steven. problem, stop spending it. - ( chirp ) mansion? - ( chirp ) good to go. send the money back, a better ( grunts ) timber!

idea than inflating your way into another recession. ( chirp ) boss? what do we do with the shih-tzu? >> she also said a whiskey bottle for the patient. - ( chirp ) joint custody. - dog: phew... announcer: get work done now. communicate in less than a second with nextel direct connect. only on the now network. deaf, hard of hearing and people with speech disabilities access www.sprintrelay.com. >> the big news is that we only added 7,000 government jobs. are more than words here. that was the most startling it's personal. i have diabetes. rodney's kid too. number. if we stop spending money on just the new programs, that so we're so proud to manufacture... would be fabulous. the accu-chek® aviva meters and test strips... if we did spend money on actual here in the u.s.a. capital stuff, stuff that plus, we've proven you'll waste 50% fewer strips... actually cut costs out of the system, adds to productivity, that will pay dividends because when you use our meter, which means greater savings... it will actually pay for itself. for people with diabetes, like me. the stuff we should stop tomorrow is supporting the state now that's a true american value. budgets, all these things that accu-chek® aviva. born in the u.s.a. are simply transferred, we could stop that tomorrow and let thes fall where they -- let the chips fall where they may. >> during the depression, f.d.r. had a great stimulus program. everyone got scared, and we had

a w recession and could fall right back into it. this is not the time to change course. >> the difference is during that time he got a huge amount of employment out there that they turned into a pot of income because these people were building stuff. what we have added money into, i don't think it is analogous because we're not building anything other than a dumpy road next to my house. >> pat, so the economy is improving, should we stop spend org keep it going? >> it's improving pretty slowly. right now, the government is about the only entity spending money. consumer savings rate is still heading pretty far north. consumer confidence is still low. you are not seeing a lot of capital spending out of businesses f the economy recovers faster than one would have thought and i think we're seeing more positive trends than certainly i would have thought at march 9, the low, you can ramp back on things. put some of the brakes on it, but i think stopping cold and

going cold turkey right nows does not seem to be the right answer with 9.4% unemployment and an economy that is, unfortunately, only with one >> so take a look at this. engine right now, which is on the left, the president's government spending. poll numbers since he took >> the government has two office, falling, and on the engines. the government is up 50% from right, the dow during the same time, soaring. the low. the jobs we lost in january, you say it is no coincidence? 741,000 jobs in january r this >> it is a fact. stocks do better when the past most recent month, 247,000, approval rating goes under 50. it has done that with reagan and that is a substantial improvement. stop spending. under bush. >> isn't it hard, nancy, to have when bush's ratings were going it both ways? down, the market was going up. >> any other recession, losing he peaked when the market was 250,000 jobs in a month would having a rough time. it is just the math. there is psychology behind t i'm not be good news. sure there is a lot of stuff. let's not argue the facts. >> i want to let nancy have a >> this rally began in march chance. it is hard to have it both ways, when the president's approval nancy, if you say the economy is ratings were pretty high. improving, so you have to keep >> exactly. you know, i think this occurred spending? when george washington's ratings >> yes. we passed $787 billion in stimulus. were down and they were trading those projects are being billed

out at the states. there is under the buttonwood tree. consumer confidence. to expand on this point, maybe the markets are are up, eric, because consumers are starting to feel good and inventories this is a vote, at least in this are drawing down. case, for capitalism. maybe people are thinking, oh, housing recovery, all these things work together, the my gosh, this won't be one big housing, the stimulus package. government thing. there will be a more capitalistic approach as obama's ratings power goes down. it is historic. in fact, when the approval ratings are under 50, the market >> do you still think she agrees with you? >> she agrees with one thing, is up, on average, about 9.2%. bigger government. there is an historical biased. maybe she can clear it up here. if the economy is going bad, the market generally does go up spend a lot of money. if the economy is improving, more than go down. maybe this is the obama rally. spend a lot of money. if the economy is slowly i wish nancy was around to talk improving, spend a lot of money. about that. >> i think it has a lot to do i'm trying to figure out where there is a time in the history with theel fact that wall street likes it when washington can't of our nation, recessions, do anything. >> log jams. depressions, boom times, bad >> any president, republican, times where nancy wouldn't say democrat. >> when you have a republican in spend billions of dollars. office or democrat in congress, it sounds like anytime is a good or vice versa, not much happens time. in washington, wall street likes >> the bush tax cuts came it.

whether we had good times or bad with approval ratings below 50%, and we had a huge deficit. this is for fiscal restraint the stocks are up. down the road. >> what fiscal restraint? when it is over 65% -- i have a he has the biggest deficit in the history of mankind, for new timing system for the market crying out loud. now. >> he saved this country from a crisis like the depression. i literally will look at the >> which we have done. formula and then add in these numbers. >> pat, if the market does not like it when the president does too poorly, when the approval ratings get below 30%, that's a >> let's separate the acts that problem. were taken in september and >> that's true. october, which i think his we have all these statistics, history will show kept us from melting down and then we had a and the study we are talking tarp plan, which led to the about, look, weekly gains in the stock market, so if you basically hold the stocks for one week, and i look at things over a slightly longer time, so i'm perhaps a little bit more point of not letting the stock skeptical of the numbers than market break down. the panel. my problem is that the free >> that's a long time for gary. market now has a chance to take a hold and we're hitting the don't insult him! >> it is, indeed. bottom of the housing market in his world, that's long term

because free market people are and god bless him. going into to buy. all the obama plans didn't work. >> look at cash for clunkers >> instant gratification is too slow for me. alone. >> we're actually going to get >> all right, guys, thank you, into that at the bottom of the show. hold on, everybody! guys. so you think you missed out on you know what? our producers are so smart, they this rally? why someone here says you ain't were actually going to do a beautiful segue into cash for seen nothing yet. you are not going to believe clunkers coming up next, but where he says we'll be in one thanks, guys. coming up 15 minutes from now -- year. cheer >> you know, politicians say clear these angry healthcare protestors are just faking it, but neil's gang has proof they are as real as real can be. my doctor said the bayer aspirin saved my life. you will see it at the bottom of the hour. please talk to your doctor about aspirin and your heart. but first, cash for clunkers. we promised. i'm going to be grandma for a long time. all that taxpayer green was supposed to get americans to buy a short time ago, this woman was limited by green cars, but have you seen her lack of mobility. a month ago this man wasn't even able to get what people are really buying? around his house. these are people who chose mobility. and they chose the scooter store.

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>> it is now a bull market. in a normal bull market, we're probably going to get 20% or so from here. we're just back to where we were before the meltdown here. the dbm is double that. if you want to participate, i'm not guaranteeing next july, but this bull market is real. i want to say it will double. >> do you agree? >> well, you know, it is a year from now, so you always have a good chance, but i think right now we need a -- maybe after the >> this is a fox news alert, next dip, which i do not think sonia sotomayor has been sworn in as the supreme court's first it will be substantial, but then hispanic supreme court justice. take a listen as she takes the he we will go up 40%. oath of office from chief >> you are saying 40% in a year? justice john roberts a short time ago. >> yeah. >> are you saying he is full of >> as an associate justice of bull? >> i would never say that. the supreme court of the united the man is honest and truthful states -- >> under the constitution and as the day is long. laws of the united states. >> stay away from the doubles >> under the constitution and and triples right now. laws of the united states. there is talk about pulling them out of the market and we may not >> so help me god. >> so help me god. be able to get out of them. >> congratulations and welcome keep your eye on that. i think the market is in place to the court.

>> justice sotomayor, only the for a dip before a rally. third female justice in the >> and pat, i know you are going court's 220-year history, the to say to leavage with etm's. supreme court's first full session with sotomayor begins >> that's why you should follow october 5, but all the judges me on twitter. will meet in september for a rare early hearing on a case gary, your prediction, please? >> i tell you what, i still that deals with campaign finance think people are into this whole reform. i'm jamie colby. prudent spending thing. i will have more head behinds in it's back-to-school time. you can buy into target, which a half hour but now we return to is looking fantastic at this the business block, only on fox. point. i think it's up 20% by the end >> so congress handing out of the year. >> pat, do you agree with that? another $2 billion for cash for >> back-to-school spend something going to be horrific. clunkers. it is more like clunkers for no. guzzlers? >> oh, all right. the plan meant to get more green i like target.oñ?ñ? cars on the road is getting gas hogs, too. i'm talking big s.u.v.'s and did you know you could buy a hummer in this plan? toby, do you agree? add that to the carbon footprint >> i think wal-mart is the play. that scraps all those clunkers that's what our numbers are. an eric says this green plan statistics say wal-mart is the ain't so green. >> that's right, bren d.a. you play. can buy a hummer, a tahoe, a >> pat, what do you like if you don't like target and back to suburban. it should have been all american car, all detroit. school. >> healthcare companies, bdx

whatever. we will move on from that. think about all the carbon you are remitting when you smash these cars. sells needles, sharps, things a little known dirty secret is that hospitals have to buy, and that a lot of these cars aren't being smashed. they got whacked on irrelevant they're turning up on the road stuff last week, 11 times cash again in other places in this country, and it's purely against eernings, wonderful cash flow the rules. >> actually, eric makes a good business. >> gary, you think it will head lower? point, because scrapping the >> yes. cars only reduces the co2 if the after ten years, pat finally replacement provides more than twice the fuel economy of the acknowledged that his picks are vehicle it replaces, and that's pratt dorsey's stocks. not happening. >> we have more fuel efficient >> it is happening, in fact. cars so oil has to go up. you're talking about a study that was based on the minimum, if the bare minimum was done. devon energy, a great play this the results are already in and the average increase in fuel week. i think oil is going up. efficiency is ten miles a >> i'm not going to argue gallon, 61 increase. against energy. give me 60 days and i'm going to 83% of those are trucks being be a bigbieer. traded in for more fuel efficient cars, ford escape cheer clear clear clear hybrids, ford focus are on the top of the lists. i agree with you eric bolling, they should have been all american, but the southern senators had to get the foreign companies in, but even with the

foreign sales, 50% are played here in the united states, so this green is, indeed green in this case. neil: he protests against we have improved efficiency and government healthcare growing the life-span of these vehicles. fast even as democrats keep the old cars wont be on the road very long. the newer cars will have longer dismissing it. life-spans. they have better technology >> you can carry a grudge and across the board. it is an absolute genius. you can carry swastikas and act like that at the meetings on >> is this green or is it healthcare. >> the meetings had conservative backfireing? >> it is absolute genius because fogz patients' rights that have $4,500 for rich cars to go in bragged about organizing and turn their car in. and manufacturing that anger. from a green standpoint, the >> manufactured, astro only thing gene is the money astroturf, maybe not, a real coming out of my checkbook and the only thing gene is going to poll with real numbers with real a dealer for a car that maybe they could have sold or not people show the majority of americans are worried about the sold. cost building in all of this, so if you look at the map, i love the way that the u.s. government is this rage we're seeing across counts cars one way, and other the nation real? welcome, i'm neil ka viewt he tow. let's get -- i'm kneel cavuto. groups count it different. it is more trucks. you know what? this is fabulous, as long as you to you fir, gary r what do you want to believe a big fat lie. think of this? we have gotten pretty used to >> the only manufacturing he that. owns here, is the story that >> the most popular would not be this is manufactured.

good american people do not the focus small car if you measured it. the government is using arcane leave their houses and go to town hall meetings unless they standards, but it would be the care and are concerned. ford's escape crossover s.u.v., they are concerned about a deficit in the trillions and so are we are really gene here? concerned about a healthcare >> i'm willing to grant a proposal that will increase it in the trillions. little bit of gene because even i know they're saying it is own a crossover will use less gas. only going to cost a trillion but when government says a trillion, multiply it by three, four and five, and you see that these are good american people any environmental benefits are that care about this country, and it is stupid for these chump change on the sidelines politicians to ignore them and because the real goal of this actually put them down. was basically another bailout for detroit and for autoworkers neil: what do you make of how this is escalating right now, who have had a rough time over charles? who is right? >> well, listen, to me it seems the past couple of years, but kids, it is a cyclical industry, like animal farm. and when consumers aren't once they were in power, anyone buying, they aren't buying. who had protests they shut them they knew that going in. >> swapping the newer cars often down. it was like now that you're in a makes people drive more, so the position to -- >> i was thinking "west side fuel efficiency -- i mean, we're going to be using a lot of fuel story," without the singing and anyway. >> exactly, brenda. dancing. >> of course it's real. one study says that even if this that's the bottom line. it is very alarming to me that program is 100% successful, the this was going to be an

reduction in carbon co2 inchewsive presidency and it's not. anyone who has any criticism of emissions, you know, versus what them are being brushed aside and the plan is producing is .001%. treated hmm really with cruelty. neil: what do you think? that's if people don't drive any >> i think in the abstract people are concerned about the less, but of course they will. people are going to get out deficit and that poll, 57% of there and say, wow, i got this people said they would be great new ford focus that gets, willing to give up healthcare who knows, 30 miles a gallon, i overhaul if it increases the can drive a little bit more. of course they're going to drive deficit significantly. i think a more personal outrage is that they are looking at the proposals out there in washington and see healthcare costs, maybe not getting reined in and healthcare costs possibly going up. they might get taxed. their benefits from their employer might get taxed in some way in order to pay for this and it still might not cover the cost of it. they look at how their care may be impacted and people don't like t >> you know, i can feel both sides when they talk about the stimulated congressional hanging

in ev jy and some of this at these events that. goes a little too far. the other side, you hear that union members are going to start crashing these forums to keep a lid on. this again, like i said, "west side story," but allowing for all that is something showing in the polls now, that people are concerned. they might not be as emotional, but they're concerned enough to say that the support they might have had for revamping healthcare, at least when it comes to this revamping, they're not keen. what's going on? >> well, sure. that's totally appropriate, neil. i mean, this is a major, major piece of legislation. it is akin to the civil rights act, for example. it could change the way we live. it is totally appropriate, i think, that the american people get very involved in this debate and express their displeasure. now, whether or not they are displeased or enraged is

something is also open to debate. i am a fan of the media. the media does a good job in bringing these things out. whether or not the media and these other groups fans names that already exist is something else we can debate, and i think we should say out loud and agree that people carrying swastikas into a meeting and accusing the democrats of behaving like nazis is bad behavior. neil: it is bad behavior. you're right. there have been instances. it is very small, but it does get the attention, you're right. one of the things i want to look at is our country has a rich list try of people getting very emotional on issues. prohibition was a big issue. that got the cavutos galvanized decades ago. that's another issue for another show. you pick your issue, pick your time, pick your moment. americans on either side of that given issue were very strong, very emotional and very into it,

so whether it is the white house or anyone else to express shock that people are passionate about this strikes me as a bit of a stretch. >> neil, let's go back a few years. there were major protests against the iraq war. i never saw the bush administration come out on a website and saying let's look at people who are against this, and find out about them. i think this white house -- >> hold on a second! hold on. one thing that the bush administration did was stop people from coming into their town hall. they were restrictive about that. that wasn't good behavior either. we want this to happen. >> the last i looked, this were massive protests around the country. i remember them. this were tons of people out there, hundreds of thousands, and that's terrific. that's what this country is about, being able to debate. neil: my brilliant producer just snitched on cashing in, because

they're going to be exploring this issue in a lot more he detail, but i now have all the information i need from my producer about the snitching. charles, let me get your take on just how, regardless what side you're on -- >> this is going to make hammering out a healthcare deal tougher now because at the end of the week, they are talking that unions will start crashing these things. this is pretty tough. >> it is pretty tough. you got to remember, the right to free speech, if the white house or democrats try to muffle that any more than people think they are now, they will make it worse for themselves. you can see this growing. adam talked about the media. the media is, for the most part, totally ignored a lot of this gas roots stuff. certainly the tax tea parties they held their nose against it. only fox news covered these tea parties. there is serious grassroots stuff. the more it is ignored and downplayed by the poyers that be, the more they fan it. >> i totally agree that one

thing that has momented this anger is -- that has foamentsed this anger is people feel that the auto bailout, for example, still goes through when people don't want pushed through. if the lawmakers aren't listening, they're going to shout louder and louder. i have a theory about all this, particularly the concerns about the deficit. the american people have cut back their spending. they are saving. they are getting their houses in order and will demand that by the federal government. by hook or crook, it's going to happen. >> i agree 1,000%. these forums at town hall meetings have been organized by the white house and the healthcare over overhaul supporters. these events are put on by

public officials who now feel they have been put upon that. seems like an emotional reach. are they that chewless that they can't sense -- that clueless that they can't sense the emotional level this has gotten for folks? >> i guess folks could nicely say, congress, it appears you're emptying out my wallet on this, or could you say, you know, you're sucking me dry i guess there is a stylistic difference. >> neil, first of all, congressional town hall meetings are business as usual. they go on all the time. it is one of the great things about our democracy. congressmen go back and talk to their constituent. neil: isn't it interesting that they are telling the democrats that their pockets are running dry? >> the president says he is going to do what he was elected to. at the same time, we complain,

especially to our members of congress who are relengthed to two-year terms because we can throw them out. you better believe they're listening. neil: you talking to me? coming up, we are going to show you how to profit from these town hall protests. stocks that will win if these guys win out. cash for clunkers. welcome to the now network. right now five co-workers are working from the road using a mifi, a mobile hotspot that provides up to five shared wifi connections. two are downloading the final final revised final presentation.

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>> this is a fox news alert. i'm jamie colby. there is breaking news off of hoboken, new jersey in the hudson river. fox news has confirmed with the coast guard that a small plane and a helicopter believed to be on a tour with passengers have collided midair over new york's hudson river. the debris field now being combed outside of hoboken, new jersey, to try to find survivors, so far, no immediate reports of the number of people either on the plane or the helicopter, but again, the coast guard confirming that there is a rescue operation going on right now in the hudson river, in new york, off the west side of manhattan, and off of hoboken, new jersey, looking for survivors of either the passengers on this helicopter reported to be a tour helicopter, and a small airplane, both of which chided midair -- collided midair sending debris into the river. right now, the reports are that this happened off of the coast of hoboken. we don't know how wide the

debris field is. we do have a reporter on scene that will be calling in to us to let us know. remember, the hudson is the sight of an incredible miracle where a mane was brought down -- where a plane was bout down with 150 people on that plane. authorities doing the search there are hoping to find everyone that may have been onboard the small plane and helicopter that collided and crashed midair. there are reports of people hearing a how the boom when the two aircraft chided and right now, at least the nfdny is on the scene trying to look through the water. the coast guard is saying they are conducting emergency crew operations on both sides of the river. police divers are going into the water. the reports are that the helicopter from one eye-witness dropped like a rock, and that the plane had lost its wing, one of its wings. this is just one report, as of

yet unconfirmed. right now, we are going to is it robert mark? i'm asking my producer who is on the scene to give us a report. robert, what are you heard and what are you seeing? >> hello, this is charlie speaking. can you hear me? >> charlie, we will go to you first. what you can tell me about what is going on over the hudson? >> i am a produce forefox news and i was around the area for a birthday party. i did not witness the crash. i talked to two fdny divers and a fire department captain, all of whom just came back from the scene and say they have not found anything in the water yet. however, they told me they are rerouting for another staging area further up north the hudson . i saw the fire department divers

come out of the water. >> charlie, we are looking at pictures from our of a fill quat, wynw and they are showing us what it looks like. one survivor is being pulled out. do police divers tell you that anybody had been pulled out, survivors that have been taken out and are now being treated? ok. charlie is gone to gather more information. let me bring you up to speed. the coast guard is confirming that over the hudson river, there has been a collision of a helicopter, which is believed to be one that takes people on tours up and down the hudson river and a small mane. you are looking at the hudson river right now where a rescue operation is going on to try to find survivors of both those aircraft. we do not have exact numbers of how many people were onboard or actually how large these aircrafts are, but we are monitoring the situation on the ground an here at fox headquarters. we also have with us a pilot robert mark who is joining us

now. robert, what can you tell us about this operation in this airspace? >> well, this operation, i mean, the new york airspace is very congested. there's no doubt about that, and when the helicopter and the small airplane were flying, they were probably both flying under visual conditions, which means that the pilots are both responsible for looking out the window and making sure that they maintain separation from each other, and somehow, somebody must have gotten distracted somewhere, because this normally does not happen. >> this happened within the hour, just after noon between manhattan and hoboken. are either one of these aircrafts required to file flight mans? what is the -- flight plans. what is the tracking of these tour helicopters and the small plane? we do not know its origin, which airport this mane came out this plane came out of. >> normally he they wouldn't file a flight plan. there are too many planes in

that airspace to keep track of them. again, it's a system that's worked pretty darn well for the last 50 years, but one thing that is a little odd is the helicopters are normally down very low to the water. that's how they basically maintain this operation, and what an airplane would have been doing down low or the helicopter up high where they could have met is something that is pretty unusual. >> before i let you go, there is one eye-witness report of the wing of the plane falling off. i'm just curious, does that tell you anything if that is, in fact, the case? >> well, if it is a helicopter, that huge rotating blade on a helicopter is just like a meat cutter. i mean, if it came in contact with the wing of a small airplane, it's not unusual at all that it would have chopped it right off. >> so it is your feeling that one of these aircraft, either the airplane or helicopter, must

have been in some sort of mechanical distress? >> not necessarily distress, but i mean, after the collision, certainly, absolutely, but initially, there wouldn't be any evidence to indicate there was any problem. they normally are not in the same airspace as each other. that's how they maintain that acceptation. something was strange but we just don't know what yet. >> let me bring our viewers up to date. the nypd is confirming, as has the coast guard, that there has been a collision over the hudson river of a helicopter believed to be one of the tour helicopters that takes people up and down the hudson here in new york and also off of hoboken, new jersey, and a small airplane. there are no exact numbers now of how many people were eeth either the plane or the helicopter but police divers are in the water right now. emergency crews are on both sides of the rferrer. this are eye-witness reports of a loud pop and the helicopter

dropped like a rock, and the plane losing its wing. you are hooking at a map. the police divers would be on both sides. emergency crews are waiting. there are hospitals nearby on both sides. obviously time is of the essence for them to find amidst a wide debris field we're told, robert, to find anybody that might have survived this crash of these two aircraft. how much time do you think there is once the aircraft and the helicopter hit if we're hearing about the kind of damage that we are to get into the water and actually find these survivors? >> well, i guess the good news is that very much as you mentioned earlier about the crash of the u.s. air airplane, there is so much traffic in the river there that there would be assistance quickly. they're going to know within a few minutes of arriving on the scene whether there was anybody that survived or not. if they don't find them within five or ten minutes, it means

it's not good. >> robert mark, very good. thank you so much. a pilot giving us insight on news breaking at fox here. a helicopter believed to be carrying passengers on a tour of the coast of manhattan and across from hoboken, new jersey, crashing midair with a small mane. that's according to the coast guard. mural tipple sources, the nypd, too, confirming to fox news that this collision happened just after noon today eastern. joining me on the phone right now, fox business network producer charlie gild who saw the aftermath and police divers getting into place with emergency crews. what other resources are there? >> there are an enormous amount of resources. there is an nypd copter and there could be other agencies, and definitely private.

there are a number of fire department boats on the scene, police department boats. there are several private vessels. >> ok. do i have charlie? i have lost charlie. charlie was reporting that at this point, and you have seen this before. you saw it when the usair plane came down in the hudson. they have also the resources in new york getting on the scene right now. we will bring you more information on this report as a helicopter and plane collide over the hudson river. more news after a quick break.

neil: the argument for giving everyone attach cut is that it increases congressional spending, but it takes a while for the revenue to come in, so you have this period in which revenues are sliding because you're not getting the tax money. then what? >> well, that's the problem. you're between a rock and a hard place if you're a local government or even the federal government. state governments have to constitutionally balance their budgets. they don't have time to wait. >> that's one situation we are in as a nation right now that makes it difficult to do this in every state. it would certainly help sales and it will certainly help sales in these states, but again, we've got to pay the paper. >> we can also cut back on spending for a while. >> i'm going to be ben stein. charles, the government never

loves spending. i think it's true. we have to make decisions about what we want. if we want a tax break, we have to cut spending. what the c.b.o. says, ten months into the year, $1.3 trillion deficit that. took my breath away. >> your impression of ben stein took my breath away. republican presidents, democrat, we're all going to slay the beast, but when he leaves office, the government's share of g.d.p. is always higher, so we can't stop it, so then what? we just try to slow the beast? >> well, look, we can stop it if we at election time get rid of all of them and bring new people in and tell them they are going to balance the books. neil: it's not going to happen. >> i know t the problem with the state tax holiday is minor. the obama cuts for 95% of

americans, it's minor. all these politicians have forgotten it's our money in the first place. we earned it and we're giving it to them. the promises have turn around. 35% of people don't pay taxes right now. this is a bizarre world where i don't think people understand it is our money first. i think they are like hedge funds and private equity companies. they're just using our money for other things and then tax us later. i'm worried big term, long time. >> i totally reject that thinking. it is not our money. we aren't giving it to them. they represent us. it is all of our money. we get to give them feedback on how they want us to spend it. this tax holiday, charles, it is just another gimmick and you know it. we're spending but not cutting the spending only cutting the revenue.

politicians, we are them, they are us. >> you got to be kidding me? we are just sitting here as spectators right now. neil: they do our bidding a lot of the times and we like the goodies they give us, and then they stick the bill with us. >> if we ever had the guts to vote them out, then we would be in the right place. we're all selfish. we're all kind of guilty, but it's our money. >> can it be adam's fault? >> partly. >> what if i tell you that our gang has a name? stick around, we will do that. cheer clear

neil: the pros tess tors may bring the government-run healthcare to a halt, but what do you think? >> i think the drugmakers will do well in this environment. >> i like the companies but it is watching paint dry. i like stocks that are on the move. >> if the healthcare plan fails, it would get a little more exciting. neil: gary, what are you doing? >> medco health. they help employers to lower costs with pharmacy and things like that. the stock has been acting well, strong growth in a tough

environment. really like the stock here. it looks great. neil: adam, what do you think? >> i think they do bet fer there is a plan. i think if the plan goes down, look for an insurance company like aflak to do better than it's doing. >> aflak is pretty good. they have made a surprisingly strong move already. neil: bottom line for you and the economy the way it is looking, what? >> it is looking better. there is no doubt it is looking better. i have always liked to see it go through the business cycle. this is a fox news alert. i'm jamie colby with breaking news in new york.

in the hudson river right now, a search is ongoing for survivors. you're looking at new vidio right now. a helicopter carrying tourists collided midair according to the nypd, the fire department here in new york and the coast guard, with a small airplane. there is no confirmed report about how many people were on that tour helicopter, but there is confirmation now that one person was rescued by the new york city fire department, pulled from the hudson river. this crash happened in lower manhattan off the hoboken, new jersey, and off the west side of manhattan. right now, the coast guard issuing is release confirming the midair collision shortly after noon today near pier 40 on the hudson river. again, one person has already been pulled. rescue operations on the hudson right now include police divers and emergency crews, all the resources that can be brought in. a pilot he we spoke to recently confirmed that there are many boats that are on the hudsonite now today that could be helpful

in rescue operations. again, this is new video that your's looking at as the search operations are ongoing. these are live pictures now for you coming in to fox right now of search operations looking for passengers of a small plane that collided midair with a helicopter that takes off from manhattan and takes tourists up and down the coast to see the skyline. right now on the phone with me is fox business network producer charlie gild who is an eye-witness to the operations right now. charlie, tell us what is going on right now. so far confirmed, one person has been pulled from the hudson river. how big is the debris field as this search operation continues? >> it is hard to tell, but based on where the rescue vessels are rand fire department and police department are, are it looks like it east is 100 yards but

it's tough to tell if that's where the debris is or that's where they're looking. i talked with one officer who told me the debris is starting to flow towards the manhattan side. i happened to be down by the river a few minutes after the accident. i didn't know what happened. i saw a small fire department launch running out towards the new jersey side of the hudson just off of christopher street, west paul street, downtown, and at the same time, a fire department ladder truck in manhattan had pulled up. the crew was grabbing all the gear he they could, including a surfboard. it hooked like water rescue equipment and this pier happens to be a launch for a private ferry company. the ferry was leaving and the fire department was yelling "stop the ferry." nobody heard. another boat came back.

then a police department chopper flew overhead and dropped a couple of scuba divers in the water from the direction they were coming, i would presume they picked them up at their base in book lynn, although i don't know that for sure. that was the direction they were coming from. the police department helicopter is circling. this is a large fire department boat out there, several smaller craft, and a fair amount, an enormous amount of fire department trucks on the scene down from towson street up north. i talked to two divers that came out of the water. that was before anything was found. i don't have any firsthand information on that. they were regrouping to a different staging area. >> new york does it like no other. everyone is on the scene, the fire department, the police

department and the divers in the water and also the ferry boats on the water. we saw them jump and spring into action when the usair plane came down rescuing 150 passengers on that mane. one survivor being pulled. the good news on both sides, the hoboken and new york side in lower manhattan, there are hospitals close by and emergency crews are at the ready to take anyone they find for any emergency services that they might need. we're monitoring the situation from here. we have laura ingle on her way there and we will be talking to jon scott, a pilot. the pilot we talked to earlier talked about the fact that in this airspace, it can get very crowded. i have been watching the pictures on a number of different sources and i'm seeing a lot of news helicopters and such flying around, and that passageway with buildings on both sides is not all that wide. are you getting the sense -- as we're looking right now, you can see there is a helicopter, i

believe, or it might be a small plane. >> there are at least three helicopters in the area right now, not including plane traffic further out west that i think is going to newark. i'm a half block from the river. i think you gave an accurate assessment. there is small plane traffic going up the hudson and three metropolitan airports, la guardia, kennedy and liberty international. there is a lot of traffic. there is a lot of small air traffic. then again, there are a lot of sightseeing helicopters. >> we're watching another one go by. i'm curious whether or not these are police helicopters that are brursing from the air. are you seeing of the nypd

police helicopters? >> yes, i am. there was three helicopters in the air, and the one closest to me is nypd aviation. i believe that is the helicopter that divers jumped out of. they are low. they have been circling non-stop. there are other helicopters in the area searching north and south of the aviation unit. there is also the nypd helicopter, with the larger class of the fire department, fire boats, are rescue boats. there also appears to be some kind of a barge with a crane cruising the area. i can also see at least two smaller police department boats, fire department boats. it looks like the larger planes have left the area. they are searching north and south. there is another helicopter

going back and forth. >> it's going to pass over me right now. >> >> you're not at the water's edge, but coming and going, are you getting the sense there is a report of one survivor being pulled so far. are you seeing any transport out of that area? >> i don't have a sense of that at this time. the first divers i talked to who came out of the water with the fire department captain, when they initially came out of the water, they had found nothing. that was before you and i had really talked. it must have been after that. i don't have any reports on the ground. the last report i had on the ground was that it was moving towards shore, moving north. i have not witnessed any debris firsthand but there is an enormous amount of activity on the water, and an enormous

amount of activity on the west side highway, next to the river. >> i'm reading on the wires there is one report, not yet confirmed that the mane took off from teterboro airport. that's in new jersey, and the helicopter was owned by a sightseeing and charter company. this is just one unconfirmed report, liberty tours. we know that there are many of these helicopter companies that operate out of both the east side and the west side of manhattan. one report is that there may have been six passengers on that helicopter, and this report that i'm reading now says one of those would be a crew member, five passengers. the coast guard again confirming that one person had been rescued. i assume at this point that they have grounded any of these other flights leaving from there, and we have seen this situation in the past, and we have seen rescue operations that have gone very, very well, but right now, for you, if you're just joining under the circumstances, this is what we know and can confirm, that is sightseeing helicopter

collided midair over are the hudson, near lower had the had manhattan, off of hoboken, new jersey, with a small plane. now one report, according to the wire services, saying that that plane was flying out of teterboro in new jersey. they are citing the f.a.a. on that, and after these two came down, there were reports of a loud boom. there is at least one report that the wing of the plane came off, and that the police and fire department that were immediately on the scene, including those divers were able so far to pull one survivor. are people gathered where you are, are charlie? was there anyone else that you see or talked to that saw or heard what happened? >> i didn't talk to anybody that actually saw it. i talked to people who talked to people who saw it. there were reports that i haven't confirmed that there was a loud become, which would make sense. by the time i crossed the street, i mean, there are two

public piers that had people sunbathing. there were an enormous amount of people looking, wondering what was going on. it seemed to unfold quickly and the response seemed to have unfolded very quickly, as i mentioned. just, i would say, maybe 100 yards south, there is -- there are several fire department police boats. >> let me ask you to stand by. these are live pictures coming in right now. one side is manhattan. one side is new jersey. in the middle of the hudson where this midair collision took place. i want to bring in fox news anchor and pilot jon scott. based on what you have heard so far, do you get a sense of what might have happened here? >> first of all, we're talking about this because it is so unusual to have a midair collision. i have flown that route dozens of times. this are two ways you can go.

you can stay down low in what is called the vfr, visual flight rules air corridor down the hudson. that's where most of the helicopters fly, and the rule is simply this -- you just look out for other traffic and avoid them. people who don't fly might think that's a crazy system but it's no different from being, you know, having a four-way stop at a busy intersection for instance. a driver is expected to look around for traffic and when the way is clear, you go. you do the same thing in aviation. there is an upper level, a higher flight corridor that starts at 1,500 feet above the hudson, under which when you fly through that area, you are runner the positive control of the la guard ya tower or the newark tower. the f.a.a. is watchelling you on radar. that's where i prefer to fly

because all of the traffic is eye depth fied by transponder and the f.a.a. or the towers will help you see it and avoid it. >> is it possible, jon, that neither one of them would have had to be in control with a tower? >> that's what i'm guessing is that this mane and the helicopter were probably flying at the lower level. you stay generally below a thousand feet, were probably flying at the lower level, and the old adage in aviation is you will never see the air cast that hit you, and that may be what happened here. there are sidelines and so forth that make it hard to see another aircraft, and you know, at the speeds that these might have closed at, it can be very problematic. >> what is the hudson in terms of conditions right now to find

survivors? >> what is the estimate of what conditions are like? >> well, thinking back to the airbus, it took them a couple of days. that engine, on the airbus is about the size of the aircraft they're looking for here. if he they haven't found more survivors or more people at this point, i think that is a moot issue, but again, as you have said, nobody is better at it than new york city authorities and they will get it as soon as they can, i'm sure. >> and they have been very cautious in terms of releasing information about the numbers of people that they're looking for. as time goes on, obviously, the debris field widens. it has happened on lower

manhattan. the good news is that they're close to hospitals on both sides. you mentioned again how new york city springs into action. we're told from our eye-witness down there, charlie gould, that the nypd and coast guard and fire department were all on the scene quickly. this happened about an hour ago. we are getting these live pictures in showing the rescue boats already in place. plus, you have flown over this area. we remember with the usair night that made the miraculous landing in the hudson how many of those ferry boats came to the rescue of the people trying to get off of that aircraft. has it been your sense, when you have known through there that there is room for all the air traffic that there is? it has also been described as very crowded. >> it is very crowded. it is probably some of the most crowded airspace in the world, and think of, really, the wisdom of it, jamie. i mean, they don't want to have a midair collision over

manhattan and have the debris falling into the city below, so that's why they intensely, the f.a.a. intentionally steers these corridors over the hudson. as a pilot, this is so unusual. there are hundreds, perhaps thousands of aircraft that fly through this same air corridor every day and you never have a problem like this. this is exceedingly unusual and rare, but there are a lot of planes and choppers that fly through here. when i fly the route, and again, i have said that i usually stay up higher, 1,500 feet and above, where you are under the control of air traffic control, but it's not unusual to look down and see three or four helicopters, like seeing helicopters, television news copters, police cop ters, not unusual to see four or five flying 800 feet underneath me

along with fixed wing air cast. it is very busy airspace. >> explain again the difference between flying the fixed wing and a helicopter through an area like this? what are the rules of the road if you're not in touch with an air traffic control to youer? >> well, if you're flying at the lower levels through what is called this vfr corridor, visual flight rules corridor, and again visual flight rules simply mean that you're expected to look around, and avoid that traffic. there is a frequency and it is published on all the aircraft charts at which pilots are supposed to self-announce, so you will say, i'm at the sewage treatment plant, you know, i'm a skyhawk flying southbound hudson river route at the sewage treatment plant or at the intrepid. you kind of give other pilots a

general idea of where you are and what else you are flying at and that way you help everybody know who is in the neighborhood where they are going and where they might be headed. you know, these professional tour helicopters they are very accustomed to this, and you know, i would -- well, it's hard to know who is at fault here. you can't speculate until you get more information from the ntsb who will be handling the facts of this, but if the fixed wing pilot was not familiar with the area, not accustomed to the amount of traffic that can be there, i don't know. there is a fair amount of traffic, and, you know, friem, these bad things happen, but it's very unusual. >> jon, i'm estimating that thousands, if not tens of thousands of people come to new york every year and want to take one of these helicopter tours. there is one report that it is liberty helicopter tours

involved in here. they offer their new york tours, 6 to 8 minutes an 12 to 15 minutes, and they offer them along the water's edge. when we see things like this happen, and we have seen rescue operations that are very successful when helicopters go down in mind. is there any training that is given to a passenger that gets on a helicopter like that for the first time? >> well, not having done it myself, i can't say that there is maybe a hot of special training. i imagine that they are required to carry life preservers onboard the choppers that nigh over the water but just as a private pilot, whenever i have visitors come to town, this is one of my favorite things to do. i invite anyone who comes to visit me, i say let's take the flight down the hudson, and again, i will jump in, put

somebody in my mane and we'll head down the hud hudson river. we generally fly southbound and cross manhattan at central park and fly over to the east river and loon around down by the statue of liberty and past the ground zero sight and so forth. it is a phenomenal view and my guess, absolutely the guests love t i'm not going to tell tourists it is a dangerous thing to do, because, again, i can't think of the last time this happened. there was a chopper that went down after it had engine difficulties in the hudson river three, four, five years ago, but, again, this kind of thing is very rare. it is sort of like akin to the terrible wrong-way crash that happened in new york about a week and a half ago when the apparently drunk driver had that collision on the taconic parkway. it doesn't happen often and that's why it is making news.

>> if you are just joining us, let me bring you up to date. you are looking at live pictures of the hudson river. on one side, new jersey, on the other, the west side of manhattan. about noon today, a tour helicopter, according to the f.a.a., one report from the f.a.a. that it was owned by liberty tours. they have been in business for quite a while off of the hell port there, taking visitors on a tour up and down the hudson, crashed midair with a small mane that the f.a.a. is saying came from teterboro, new jersey, crashing midair into the hud hudson river and within minutes the nypd, fdny and coast guard on scene looking for survivors and there is a report of one person being pulled. the helicopter, according to reports was capable of carrying six people, including the pilot. we do not know how many people were onboard the airplane. in order to figure out what

happened from here, this are reports that the wing came off the plane, one report from a witness says that the blaze from the helicopter showed there were mangled bhaidzs. how will they figure out what happened? they will have radar tapes of the airplane, i would think, for certain. again, because this probably happened at a relatively low altitude, most of the tour helicopters that fly over the hudson nigh at an altitude of 800 feet, which sounds fairly high if you're in the midwest, for instance, but when you think about it, you're below the top of many of the buildings in manhattan at that altitude. the empire state building, which is still the tallest building in manhattan towers way above you at that altitude, so sometimes when i fly that route, and again, i will usually fly

higher, anywhere from 1,500 to 2,500 feet, when i fly that route, the la guardia tower will come on to me and say "look for an aircraft looks to be 1, 200 feet heading southbound type unknown. " sometimes because of the buildings and so forth, the radar coverage is not that good. what they're going to try to do is get the radar tapes from the teterboro tower, and follow that fixed wing aircraft as it made its way, i i'm assuming down the hud hudson river since you're saying it happened around 34th street, south of teterboro airport, well south of it and they'll follow the radar path that that mane made and try to come up with some indication of how it came to collide with this helicopter. now, neither of these cast has the so-called black boxes that he we hear of that help investigate commercial air

traffic. there will be perhaps some recorded pilot traffic in temples of radio traffic that they will be able to pull from f.a.a. tapes but neither one of these planes has the recorded ability to tell ses gators what the pilots were saying and what they were doing. it will have to come from the radar tapes. we can only hope that both of those aircraft were showing up on radar, an frankly, i don't think that is likely that that will happen. jon: i want to go now to doug butler, a helicopter tour pilot who works for fox news. doug, i want to ask you, doing these tours, what would you anticipate these passengers were told in terms of possible risk, and also any training in the event of an emergency?

>> well, you know, first of all, there isn't a very long briefing that goes on for the passengers other than an explanation as to how you to use life preservers, identification of emergency exits, things like that. i mean, you know, there is thousands of takeoffs and landings of thousands of helicopters and practically never do you end up having to do an emergency landing into the water. there is always the possibility of collision, but flights are always conducted in visual con conditions. the pilots are always watching out for each other and they are in radio communication with each other on a common traffic advisory frequency. >> in flying in that area, do you get the sense that it is monitored properly, since a lot of it is visual, and not necessarily, although john was explaining how it is picked up on radar.

it does seem like it is what monitored, but is this a crowded area for these tour helicopters? >> yeah. the manhattan area is very crowded. the area that the crash occurred in is called the hudson river corridor, and everybody has to operate under visual flight rules on that corridor. the bottom line with it is that the tour operators are always keeping in contact with each other, and pointing out other traffic, especially airplane traffic, which might not have the experience that the hell cough ter pilots have in that area. >> this has in the past been other crashes. i'm looking in my research, june 2007, a sightseeing helicopter crashed into the hudson north of lincoln tunnel in new york. it was heading south, as it sounds like this one may have been today. this were serious injuries, but

when you hear that the blade of that hell helicopter was mangled and the wing of the plane, according to one eye eye-witness report, had come off, what is your sense in terms of the power of this collision? >> probably a very high energy collision. the possibility is also that the -- you know, the helicopter could have been flying on a predetermined route, i should say, sometimes the airplane traffic that flies the corridor isn't necessarily following the same route. in other words, if you're flying down the river towards the statue of liberty, you are supposed to fly on the jersey side. if you're flying northbound, you fly on the new york side. not only is that followed, especially for people unfamiliar with the area, the fact that this airplane had come out of

teterboro leads me to believe that maybe they were based there, and if they were, they would be familiar with the area. you know, it's hard to speculate really. >> in this crash that i mentioned from 2007, liberty helicopters was the sightseeing company as well an at that time were able to deploy yellow emergency floats and they make a controlled landing in that particular case. do those emergency floats on a tour helicopter engage automatically? >> no, they don't. almost all the tour helicopters that fly out over the hudson have emergency floats, and they're triggered by a trigger on the pilot's control stick. there is a bottle of nitrogen usually mounted underneath the helicopter. when you pull that nitrogen, it inflates the floats. also, while the passengers are

equipped with life preservers. >> do they wear those during the flight? is that mandatory? >> yeah. they're almost always, you know, attached to them around their waist, and they don't need to do anything more than just pull a tab and the thing will inflate for them. >> is jon scott with us as well? i could ask you to stand by, i want to bring jon back in. are you with us? >> sure am, jamie. alistenning to the fact that the helicopters are equipped with these emergency devices and also that passengers are giving life vests but also understanding as you would uniquely as a pilot the potential powerful crash that took place, what is your sense in terms of at this point we are not hearing from emergency sources of any one rescued other than the one person so far. i'm sure they are frantically searching as we know they do,

and they are on scene. what happens from here? >> well, there is a report of one, i think you put it, casualty being pulled from the river. >> i think it is a survivor. >> i'm surprised if they labeled it as survivor. i would be surprised if there were any survivors from something like this. helicopters are designed, if they lose an engine, they auto rotate to the ground which means they use the bhaidzs to sort of give them a reasonably soft lansing. in that 2007 tour splash landing that you talked about, that's how they are able to do it, if the aircraft is intact, they can make a reasonably safe landing, but here you have a situation where, no doubt, the large main rotor of the chopper impacted

the airplane. >> jon, i have information on the type of plane. the associated press is reporting it is a piper p.a. 32 that took off from teterboro, and the helicopter was a ure eurocopter as350 owned by liberty tours. what can you tell us about the piper p.a. 32? >> i'm not absolutely familiar. i think it is a relatively small plane, an entry-level training plane or someone might use it for personal transportation. it is the piper archer, a small single-engine plane. >> i can't tell you if this is the exact aircraft. one of the piper p.a. 32's is a six or seven seater so this may

be the larger. it is a light aircraft, manufactured by piper. 260 horsepower. that's just one of the planes that they make. it is a series, obviously, the p.a.'s. >> a 260 horsepower plane is a bigger plane than i'm thinking about. that probably is a larger light plane but still, you know, relatively small aircraft we're talking about here. at any rate, you know, it falling from even 800 feet, that water is like concrete. if the passengers were able to survive the force of the initial collision, it would have been very difficult for a helicopter that has sustained any kind of main row tar damage to auto rotate down to hit the water in a survivable fashion.

the prospect of finding survivors from a midair collision are small. >> in the latest report, officials don't know how many people were aboard the plane but the f.a.a. spokesperson says there may have been five passengers and one crew member aboard the helicopter, and they're saying still that one survivor was pulled from the water. this happened, though, jon, shortly after noon, right after the report of the loud pop, and the plane and the chopper chiding in midair and going into the hudson river. obviously we have our reporter on the way there. we have calls out to hospitals and such to see. the good news is where this happened, as you know, there is a close hospital, the receiving hospital on 9/11. this happened close to 14 the street. it's on 15th street, close to the west side and also on the hoboken side, there are hospitals as well, and just to bring our viewers up to speed, the new york city fire department, the police department, and the coast guard

all on the scene right now searching through a debris field that no doubt, jon, would be widening at this point given the water and the wind? >> yes. it sounds as though you will basically have the fuselage of the fixed wing plane and also the helicopter and then other than that just bits and pieces, perhaps bits of row tar blades, which frankly they might never find. they would be looking for a very tiny piece of equipment. they might nerve are find that, but they will find the two fuselages and hopefully they will then find all of the people that were onboard. >> in the latest report, it talks about how the helicopter propellers flew all over many people on land had to take cover from some of the wreckage. how narrow is this space if

you're a pilot flying through here and how unusual again could you explain to people watching for a helicopter and plane to collide midair over the hudson? >> again, that particular portion of the river is fairly narrow, and yet, i will just give you a description of what happened the last time i flew that route. i was headed southbound, so again, i was hugging the jersey shore. i was told to wait until a baron, which is a fairly large light airplane passed me in the other direction. he was flying northbound. i was flying southbound. we were at the same altitude. i really had to scan the skies to find this other airplane. when he did pass, and i was able to make my left turn over central park and head down that way, it is, i would say, probably three-quarters of a mile wide at that point, the

hudson, maybe half a mile wide, and again, it is fairly hard to see. think about being on the ground and looking for a car that is a mile away from you. it can be very, very tiny, and if one pilot or the other wasn't managing altitudes well. i mean, altitude can be your friend but you have to stick to it. it's not unusual for pilots to get distracted and lose a couple hundred feet of altitude which in a situation like this can prove to be fatal. >> i want to point out that we're looking at some of the divers, some of the streaming vidio. i just got an e-mail from scott wilder at fox news who was helping with us live pictures as was our affiliate at nynw. there are news helicopters doing their job over the hudson as well as police helicopters searching the area.

how important is it to keep this environment controlled right now if they're still searching for potentially survivors? >> well, i think the choppers always do a good job. i mean, those pilots, as doug was saying, those pilots do a good job of staying in touch with each other, and avoiding each other. he they all know each other. they can recognize each other's voices just on the frequency. a had a fellow in town the other day who used to each air force pilots how to fly the f-15. he was expressing caution, maybe concern about flying out of the new york city area in a light plane. i mean, this is a very, very experienced pilot who used to each other air force pilots how to fly and he wanted to make very sure he could get out of the new york city area because this is some of the most

congested airspace in the world, so we were, you know, going over some of those questions he and i. at any rate, it is crowded airspace, but it is normally not a problem unless somebody makes a mistake that. may have been what happened here. >> and the way the reports are about the impacts shearing off the planes wing, as you said, the loud pop, the helicopter dropping like a rock. this is all according to some eye-witnesses. it does sound like an incredibly powerful impact. what is the speed limit of going through her, especially if you're flying at low altitude? >> well, there is a speed limit for all air cast below 10,000 feet of about $250 miles an hour. i don't think either one of these aircraft would be able to

reach that. i mean, a eurocopter, i'm guessing, can do 150, maybe 180 miles per hour. most sing single-engine planes, if that's what this piper was, would be in that same area, 150 miles an hour, tops, but again because of the nature of the helicopter, the tips of the rotor blades are rap approaching the speed of sound. the tips of the rotor blades may be moving up to 500 miles an hour so they are designed to impact only >> . when you put something solid, you know, even a thin-skinned wing of an aluminum plane, you collide with that and that's going to be a big catastrophic event. >> jon, stay with us, meese, as we look at the pictures from our affiliate wnyw.

you can see the flashing lights and the police divers are in the water. they are trying to find survivors after the midair collision that happened about noon. i have on the phone alana duffy, an eye-witness to the crash. tell us what you saw and heard. >> can you hear me? we will reestablish communication with alana duffy who is an eye-witness to give us more information. jon, meantime, some of the live pictures that i'm seeing, people are lined up along the banks of the water and we know that emergency vehicles are there as well at the ready to take anybody that they do find to the hospital. how long can these divers, because you're a diver, how long can these divers remain in the water, jon? >> you know, it will depend on how they are being supplied with air. i'm guessing most of them are

going to be carrying their own tanks, and that, also, is a function of the water depth. i'm not certain how deep the hudson is in that area. i think it's around 70 to 100 feet. >> i can tell you, it's murky. it is difficult water to search in. hang on. i have alana duffy, an eye-witness to the crash. thanks for joining us. tell us what you saw and heard. >> is was sitting down having lunch. i didn't hear anything. i happened to ghans up over chelsea pier at the river. i saw a helicopter making unnatural movements, flipping around and there was debris scattered around it and then all of a sudden the helicopter just took a nose-dive and dropped like a rock while pieces of the rotor were still floating in the air above it, gradually making their way down to the ground. that was it. >> you didn't see an airplane as

well? >> i didn't. i didn't see the collision. i didn't hear anything. all i saw was the helicopter itself vie lntsly spinning around and dropping. >> are you still at the location? >> pardon? >> are you still down on the water's edge? >> no, i walked away. >> was it is a hectic scene almost immediately? >> the response time was amazing. i mean, i threw money down to pay my check and i ran down there and i think i was one of the first people there and i ran to the end of pier 54, i think it is called and as i arrived, so did the ambulance and police. i watched the divers suit up to get into the water to look for hopefully survivors. >> that was just after 12 noon? >> correct. >> there are reports that one survivor was pulled. we don't know if that was from the new york side where you were or from the hoboken, new jersey side. did you see anyone taken away? >> you know, i did not, but as i

was walking away, there was a couple in front of me that said they saw thee people pulled out on the new york side. i did not see anything. >> obviously a fluid situation right now. we can see in looking at the pictures we are looking at live pictures of the rescue boats in this area, and in an organized way trying to comb the waters. we see police divers in small boats, and we appreciate your calling in. is there anything else, any other sense you got when you were down there about what happened? >> i mean, no. i mean, i was there really quickly. i was only a block away off the water. there was nothing bouyant on the water. when it hit, it submerged quickly. >> thank you so much. we appreciate the call. jon, that goes to the point we were discussing about the conditions. this water, i have been in it in the hudson. it is murky. it is visually very challenging. >> it sure is.

you know, again, i just think it will be -- if the person they pulled from the water is actually a survivor, that will be as miraculous as the usair flight landing on the hudson. i think it's very unlikely that anybody survived the impact in the air -- well, perhaps they may have survived the impact in the air but dropping at these speeds down to the water, i mean, the water literally is like concrete from those altitudes, and then trying to find in the shifting currents of the hudson, trying to find that, i mean, think how far that usair flight floated down the hudson back when it splashed down in january. it was several miles just because the currents are so strong. >> as we look at the water and we just had an air qual pan down to the tip. i saw the statue of liberty. i don't see any portion of this plane or helicopter so this eye-witness report from alana

sounds right on that whatever came down submerged and that's probably why the divers are busy at work underwater. i will ask you to stay with us. molly hennenberg is joining us from washington with updated information. >> we just want to review what happened at noon today in water to bring our viewers up to date. it happened just after noon between manhattan and he hoboken, new jersey. you see part of the hudson there. and a helicopter owned by liberty tours. they crashed midair. the plane took off from teterboro airport in new jersey. liberty tours is a sightseeing and charter company. we don't he know how many people were onboard the plane. f.a.a. officials say there may have been as many as six people that were on the helicopter, five passengers and one crew members. you have been seeing emergency

crews, boats, divers all working there trying to recover, and if there are earn is your survivors and will rearn any evidence interest the crash. people who saw what happened said that the two planes collided closer to the hoboken, to the new jersey side of the river there, and that the helicopters started spinning and went into the water, and then theism pact sheared off the plane's wing and it crashed as well. as jamie was saying, if you look at the pictures there, you don't see anything bobbing on top of the water there, so the speed of the cash must have submerged pretty quickly there. usually this is the type of thing where right now it is all about rescue, recovery, that kind of thing. federal investigators also will travel to the area likely from washington or from new york as well to try to investigate how this could have happened. us. a fox news anchor and also a pilot.

jon, you spoke about this with jamie just a couple of minutes ago. for those of us who are aren't in new york, how does it happen that two planes in the sky don't see each other and get that close so that a crash can even happen? often happens to people on the ground. i nfers a friend's car one day when we pulled up and i saw the oncoming car and he didn't and he got broadsided. it just can happen. this particular corridor where this midair collision apparently occurred probably -- >> jon, i want to know what you know about teterboro. now that we know that the fixed wing plane came out of teterboro, what happens when you head this way? are you cut off commune communication-wise from their tower? >> not necessarily. again, it depends on the kind of flying that this pilot intended to do.

i normally fly out of west chester airport, and when i do, i leave the westchester space, and i get in touch with what's called new york approach. that's sort of a master supervised controlling agency and they will head me off as i head down the hudson river they will hand me off to the la guard ya tower and then to the newark tower depending on whose airspace i'm flying in. one leaving teterboro, they would be out of teterboro he's airspace quickly and get into the air course dor, the v.f.r. corridor that doug butler was talking about, generally about 1,000 feet below the normal altitudes and they would have to let other traffic know what they are doing and what their

intentions are and how high they are. not everybody does that. >> when you explain the visual approach, the fact that they're not in communication, they're basically on their own to look to the left, look to the right and see who else is flying this this very busy corridor? >> sure. >> are there blind spots when you're actually flying through this corridor? >> of course. gi back to something i said earlier in our coverage, which was that the old adage in aviation is "you'll never see the aircraft that hit you." sure, there are blind spots in every kind of aircraft. i tell my passengers when i'm flying, if you see another aircraft that looks like it could be any kind of a threat, let me know, because i only have one set of eyes. it can happen. maybe somebody was up against the sun, for instance. this happened relatively early in the day. perhaps one aircraft was being hidden by the position of the sun.

>> when you look at pictures, jon, if we're talking about the piper p.a. 32 series, if it is possibly a six or seven-passenger airplane, not as small of an aircraft as we had originally thought, that's pretty visible, to a helicopter operator, particularly someone at liberty who flies these tours on a daily basis. >> you would think so, jamie, but i challenge any of our viewers to do this if they're out on the planes, for instance, you know, take a look at a tractor-trailer rig, for instance, that that is a mile away from you, how big does it look? human vision is not all that acute at greater distances, and again, i'm reminded of one of my more recent flights down the hudson where i really had to scour to find a twin-engine baron that's a fairly large airplane as light planes go. i really had to scour and the traffic -- and the tower was

telling me exactly where it was and what altitude it was, and i could barely find the thing. >> are there any warning systems on a helicopter or fixed-wing aircraft, as far as you know, that would let you know that you're very close in airspace to another aircraft? >> there are such systems, not all of these aircraft would necessarily have them. they are a fairly recent development in the last five years or so, and you know, again, it's primarily up to the pilots to see and avoid each other. and it is not any different from someone pulling out in front of another vehicle, you know, at a four-bay way stop or perhaps running a red light. humans make mistakes and that may be what happened in this case. >> and as you said, it do it could be a long time to come before they uncover what really happened here.

i'm going to ask you to stand by you have described what the conditions are like through this hudson corridor. for those of you not in new york or unfamiliar with this area, on one side, you have new jersey, and on the other side, you have the west side of manhattan, and around noon today, a fixed-wing airplane out of teterboro, according to the reports right now from the f.a.a., a piper p.a. 32 left teterboro airport to come into this corridor. you are looking at a good aerial view right now. it cashed midair with a tour helicopter that may have had as many as six people onboard including the pilot, according to reports right now. thomas r umplet fken is joining me on the phone and can tell us more about the rescue operations. let's talk about the conditions and what the coordinated efforts are like by the nypd, the police department and the fire department here as well as the coast guard.

what can you tell us? >> what happens immediately is there is a joint operation that has commenced through the office of emergency management and police department divers, scuba divers, aviation, fire department folks and divers all converge on the area, and together, coordinate and decide when to go into the water, where the debris is, and use very sophisticated sonar equipment, and in a crash like, this the debris looks like it is all underwater at this point in time and any chance of eschewing someone in either the copter or the fixed-wing plane would have to be done immediately. their air supply is limited. >> the facilities we have in new york are incredible, and how many dive teams do we have and how long can they stay? the water? from these aerial shots, we see

the police boats and the divers. we do not see debris. we know the currents could be spreading this field out even further. >> that's correct. what they are looking for now is looking for the major debris fields for both different aircraft. they're looking for the debris fields for the actual helicopter , hopefully underwater and for the fixed-wing plane and the cabins. they do team up and do go down in teams and give themselves a break. we have dozens of teams of divers trained and more divers coming. aviation has divers on standby, so, like, with the crash in the hutdz son, the miracle on the hodson they were able to deploy even some aviation units. >> what about on the ground? we saw people lined up on both sides. obviously people want to help or may just be curious. how important is it for ground

resources of the police department and such to keep those people out of the way so they can do this very important task of combing through these murky waters and trying to find these survivors as quickly as possible if there are survivors? >> well, what happens is there is a mobilization on both sides of the river in a crash like this. this is not the first time that there has been a crash in the hudson or east river. remember a bunch of years ago, jane doorknocker, a reporter for a local station, her helicopter flipped over and one person was rescued by police department divers. there is no better city for this to happen in than new york city relative to the rescue efforts, but relative to your question, there are ambulances an triage centers, hospitals mobilized on both sides of the river, depending on who the person who is rescued comes up, they will

decide which side of the river that person is taken to to get them immediately to a hospital or triage center. >> that is a split-second decision, i'm sure. jon scott is still with us, our anchor and a pilot as well as a diver who has actually studied rescue operations, and, tom, a great resource formerly with the new york police department. lauren, can you confirm that one survivor has been found so far? >> hi, jamie. i can let you know what we can see from our vantage point. you have been watching the shots coming in from our cameraman scott wilder. we have our sling box going on up here. we are at stevens college and what we can see are the nypd boats, the blue boats and the red and white boats are from.

dny. the small motorized rafts are swirling around the crash scene. as you can see from the water there is not much to look at as far as looking for debris at this point. we also have been seeing coast guard boats, the tugboats around the scene as well. we cannot confirm as far as fatalities or survivors at least from where we are right now. we are awaiting some kind of press conference coming from authorities at the scene. n. ypd tells us they are working on possibly getting totals a press conference soon, and once they do that, that's when they will start sharing information with us. we are down, and when we approached the scene here, jamie, to a kayaker in the water. i know you have been talking to some eye-witnesses and from his vantage point, he was in the water, paddling around, as we have been talking about, a beautiful sunny, saturday afternoon here in new york city, and he heard a loud crash in the air. he described it as at first it

sounded like a backfire from a vehicle. he looked up. he saw the swirling blades starting to come down. he paddleed away as fast as he could to get out of the way and was in the water stunned trying to see if there was anything he could do to help. he saw all these rescue boats approaching the debris scene and was told to get back over to the shore. we ran into him on the hoboken side of the hudson river. you see the divers in the water. they have been coming in and out of those boats for the last hour that we have been here. we are at stevens college on a cliff on the hoboken side, and one of the reasons we we are here, we have been told there is debris on this campus. one person has come out of the campus gate and told us that there is possibly tire or a wheel that they found in there, and investigators are here checking that out, taking pictures and interviewing people as well.

as i scan here on this cliff overlooking the waters that you see with these live pictures, i am standing with a woman who lives in the area. her name is janet frisponen. i want to you describe what you saw shortly after noon today. what did you hear? >> i was in my apartment and i was near the window, ready to pull up my window shade and i heard a propeller, then i heard it stop. i pulled up the shade and saw a piece of metal flying right in the is a sin ti. i of the born and raised in hoboken so i knew exactly where it was. i just came out and walked up here. that of the it. >> this is a dramatic day as we watch this rescue operation underway. you mentioned that you were here during 9/11. no, you were not there. ok. and the u.s. airways accident

incident. >> i wasn't there. >> we are approaching 2 bm eastern time, laura, but the good news for the rescue time is that they have about six more hours of rescue time here of daylight. they are spread up and down the hudson river, laura is on the new jersey side, hoboken, and what we have heard from witnesss is that the debris not only went into the water but also on land and some people having to duck for cover. the plane that is believed to have been involved, accor