you probably have gotten an answer from me. >> jamie: that's what you do. go to website for e-mail or transcripts. thank you, doc. >> thank you. >> eric: a fox news alert. new tape coming in now from the latest healthcare confrontation. the passion and the outrage over the massive plan to reform your healthcare system is growing. take a look at the meeting in des moines. it was held yesterday by democratic senator tom harken of iowa. >> who sent me here? i sent myself. how dare you, how dare you blame i'm part of a conspiracy. how dare you! if you want to talk about conspiracy, i'll tell you about conspiracy. if you want to hear what we want to know? >> jamie: good morning, everyone. i'm jamie colby. it's not an isolated incident as americans across the country are showing up for the town halls trying to express how they feel about

healthcare reform and the nationalization or public option. >> eric: i'm eric shawn in new york. senator harken calls the outburst you call at the meeting scare tactics and misinformation. the police are even there. caroline shively has been following the heated debate from washington. she has the reaction. people were fired up at the meeting last weekend. is it continuing in to this weekend? >> certainly from coast-to-coast, we're seeing similar video coming from the town hall and cities across america. usually there's just a trickle of people. now hundreds are packing into the rooms. here is just a sample. listen to one in washington state. >> need a public option at the very least. we -- the suspicion -- >> this is great. i'm being heckled by the left. >> that's washington state. you also spoke about senator harken and play some of that video from iowa. he indeed said some the people were using "scare

tactics," misinformation and obstruction calling it a nationally coordinated effort to disrupt the meetings. let's play a little more of the harken meeting. well, what i can tell you is mr. harken -- i apologize. we don't have the tape for you. he said he thinks the vast majority of americans will see healthcare reform as a good thing. several more weeks to go before they head back to d.c., guys. probably much of this over the next few weeks. >> eric: talk about several more weeks, there is a lot of emotion at the meeting for both sides. what does it mean for legislation when lawmakers get back last month? >> if this anger level stays this high -- we have more than a month before they return to d.c., but it could be tough for some of the middle of the road democrats to come back here and support at least the house legislation, which is reportedly more liberal than what the senate finance committee is working on there. there is a potential if it stays at the high anger level to push it a bit to the right. it could effect the public

option. some of the things that go in there, eric. >> eric: five minutes from now we'll talk with a member of congress about these meetings. caroline shively, live in washington. thank you. >> jamie: tension is running so high at the town hall meetings a democratic congressman lashed out at one of his own constituents. georgia democrat david scott attended a local meeting at a road project that offered constituents a chance to ask about anything at the end of the meeting. watch what happens when one person changes the topic to the congressman support for healthcare reform. >> my question is why are you voting for a healthcare plan that is shown not to work in massachusetts and why are you going to institute it in a nationwide way? >> i'm not voting on anything. >> not a single one of you had the decency to call my office and set up for a meeting. okay? then do that. do that.

but don't, don't come and take advantage of what these individuals have done. you want a meeting with me on healthcare, i'll give it to you. >> jamie: well, we report. you decide. representative scott suggested the healthcare questions came from someone outside his district who was trying to, "hijack the meeting." and the questioner, this is fascinating, was actually a local doctor who later identified himself to people at the meeting as a member of a democrat party. eric, he was trying to get information that he could bring back the some of his patients. that's according to the report. >> eric: fox news alert now. we showed you video earlier of a prison riot in california. now we're getting more word about that riot. apparently 40 of the prisoners have been sent to the hospital after the riot broke out that occurred at the california institution for men, that's in chino, near los angeles.

prison spokesmen this morning told ktla tv that the riot started at 8:30 last night. the situation was finally under control as of earlier this morning. but in those ensuing hours, about 80 officers responded to the rioting prisoners. they say the inmates' injuries range from stab wounds and slashes to head trauma. they do consider some of the injuries to the inmates life-threatening, but no prison staff members or guards were injured in that. >> jamie: well, back now to yesterday's tragic crash in to the hudson. the divers recovering a fifth body from the site of saturday's deadly mid-air collision over the hudson river. they're still out there now trying to find all of the victims. there were nine total. six of them were on board a sight-seeing helicopter. three more were on a small plane out of teterboro, new

jersey. investigators say pinpointing the location of the impact is a huge factor in determining exactly what happened. >> one of the things that the ntsb will be looking at is exactly where the aircraft were located at the time of the collision. this is a vfr corridor. that means visual flight rules prevail. you are supposed to be alert and see and avoid other aircraft in the vicinity. we will need to look at air traffic control information to see what kind of communication and the location and the altitude of the aircraft. >> jamie: well, you just heard -- that's actually the chairwoman of the ntsb say that the narrow corridor, they have to depend on each other. there isn't a -- you file a flight plan and you don't necessarily keep in touch with the tower. you can keep in touch with each other. it's voluntary between the helicopter and the plane. so does this tragedy show a need for stronger federal oversight involving these type of recreational flights?

peter goals is the former managing director of the ntsb. peter, there is no question it will take investigators a bit of time to determine what happened and who was responsible in this crash. but it does raise the question about these, what is called by the ntsb on-demand flights. these helicopter tours, in particular. they have them in new york. they have them in hawaii. they have them across the country, grand canyon and such. the question is the rules are set to be lax from the ntsb. the rules are lack and i want you to tell me about those. they've done very little if nothing about it. what is the status? >> you're right. the ntsb has been concerned about the air-tour, on-demand air tours for close to 20 years. they have a higher accident rate than is really appropriate. part of that is because there is more take-off than

landing, sho shorter flights, they fly close to the ground. they want a more spectacular view of the scenery they're looking at. there is limited oversight. the ntsb issued over a dozen recommendations to the faa to try and tighten up the oversight of the operations. the faa is not responding. even more revealing is that the faa convened the rule-making committee that was going to look top-to-bottom of this segment of the air industry. they issued over 120 recommendations some years ago and not one of them has been implemented yet. the faa has been dragging its feet on oversight of this segment of the industry. >> jamie: so in 2005, and possibly before before, the nts issues 16 recommendations to be followed by the faa and you're saying it went a step further, the faa had its own

committee that issued over 100. and really, they've been left, what i find fascinating with the on-demand companies, they can have pilots with as little as 500 hours in the cockpit. commercial airlines have to have, i believe i'm correct can, minimum of 1,500. so less experience pilots, more take-off and landing. it sounds like a recipe for danger. would you recommend that people take the flights? does the public need to stand up and say we won't do it until it changes? >> i think you need to be very careful before you book the flights. both alaska has them. a lot of them. the grand canyon has had issues. as has hawaii. i mean i think the public needs to be concerned that the faa needs to ratchet up the requirements for this. you know, hours of service. operational control. i mean these are all issues that need to be looked at so that the public is made safer. >> jamie: peter, let me ask you this question: the faa

spokeswoman laura brown said in april she agrees with the recommendations that were made in the report, and, "we will adjust our oversight of on-demand operators to reflect the risk-based approach that the inspector general is recommending." yet nothing happened. so if the faa is not in a position to protect passengers, who are they protecting? >> the faa has done a real -- has a real problem with the rule-making proceprocess. in the 1990s, if the faa was almost ordered to start taking into account the opinions and the -- of the people they're overseeing, so now on the rule-making committees, can take years before even recommendations come out. watch very carefully in the next month. there is a rule-making committee that's dealing with fatigue. that came out of the buffalo crash. let's see how the new faa administrator deals with the

recommendations. he's promised new rules on fatigue by september. let's see if he does it. >> jamie: all right. fox news reporting. we're going to stay on it. peter goelz, thank you very much. >> thank you. >> eric: remember when congress blasted the car company executives for flying to d.c. in their private jets? lawmakers may soon be travelling in similar style. the department of defense possibly picking up the tab. the house just added $550 million to the pentagon's budget for eight, eight business class passenger jets. some of those jets have cooking gallies, leather seats. they say they also have sleep accommodations. the pentagon says it did not ask for these jets. the house plan will mean cuts to other needed programs. the house says the jets would replace an aging fleet that costs more than twice as much as the new ones to run. >> jamie: also, another federal program that may be working a little too well is creating a new concern for the nation's car dealers. they're running out of vehicles.

as new money is approved for the cash for clunkers rebate program, consumers are pouring into showrooms. it has some dealers saying they're stock of new cars, especially the fuel efficient vehicles that qualify is dwindling down to nothing. some dealers are worried about how many cars they'll have left until the 2010 models arrive in november. on friday, president obama approved another $2 billion that would extend the program until labor day. that's if the money lasts that long, because the program's first $1 billion ran out in about a week. >> we have been showing the scenes of outrage and anger at the meetings for healthcare reform across the country. this says a the top democrats called critics un-american and even likened them to nazis, carrying signs of swastika. when they recently met with marcia blackburn of tennessee, the local paper identified them as tea party members and called them another term we won't use on

television. councilman blackburn joins us now and is a recommend from that debate. good morning. >> good morning. good to be with you, eric. >> eric: same to you. you see the yelling and screaming. are the emotions fake and manufacturered or home grown and real on both sides? >> you know, i think that it's home grown, it's real. constituents are coming with questions. it did three public -- i did three public meetings and i did civic clubs, chamber of commerce and civic club meetings and i have found people on both sides of the issue to be engaged. they are reading the legislation. and interestingly enough, regardless of what their political persuasion is, they do not want a government takeover of healthcare. they do not want medicare benefits to diminish. they want to be able to make decisions about their healthcare with their physician. so i think their concerns are

real. and if they are listened to, and if they have the opportunity to seek the information and get some clarity, they -- i have found, i found it to be a great exchange. i'm looking forward -- >> eric: i don't mean to interrupt. you talk about them being engaged. that's an understatement. look at the people screaming and yelling, even at fellow members of congress. where can we get the information? there is a lot of misinformation. there is concern. people, frankly, some are scared and we don't know what it will mean for us and our future, whether our medical benefits could be cut, whether at the end of life, some bureaucrat will be doing something, or if the administration says, this is the plan, this is what we need to finally help and reform our healthcare system. >> right. eric, a couple of things here. number one, i think the american people are not opposed to reform. they are opposed to what the democrat leadership, speaker pelosi, leader reid are bringing forward. they do not want that. what they want to know are

the specifics of the bills. so on my website, i had actually placed a link to the bill. and a link to some of the alternative bills that are out there, the shaddock, bill, the rfc bill, so people can look for themselves. i have found that they -- i mean one of my town hall meetings last week, we were going to have 50 at a restaurant. we ended up in the parking lot. we had over 200 people that came and wanted to talk. and i gave them the opportunity to have their say. and it was a great exchange. we had people in the crowd who didn't agree with healthcare reform. we had people there that wanted to have, the democrat -- the government-run healthcare. we had individuals -- we had physicians who were there. we had nurses. >> eric: well, you're a brave member of congress, because i have to tell you, miss blackburn, some of your fellow lawmakers are canceling town halls. they don't want them. some are even having telephone town halls.

what are they, afraid of the constituents? >> well, i don't know why they would be afraid. i think any legislator who is willing to listen and willing to walk through this process with their constituents should not fear having these meetings. what we want is for people to come in, with their questions, ask their questions, and give us the opportunity to help direct them toward information that can answer their questions. we know that what we should be doing in august is engaging our constituents and certainly engaging the american people in a national debate. how do we approach healthcare reform? how do we address insurance accountability? how do we get some much-needed liability reform? how do we reduce the cost -- >> eric: i've got to -- i'm going to stop you now, because those are the questions. you can google until your heart's content, watch fox news channel and google

blackburn. b-l-a-c-k-b-u-r-n. you can read the bill and read what the committees have gotten out. the americans just want the facts. congressman, marsha blackburn, thank you. have another town hall this week. get the answers out. thank you. jamie? >> jamie: the wife of tv pitch man billy mays is lashing out and she's really furious over newly released and shocking autopsy results that show cocaine use contributed to her husband's death. now she may take matters into her own hands to clear his name. that's next. >> eric: deadly attacks are surging. military casualties are rising. the u.s. forces struggle to turn the tide in the war in afghanistan. is it now time for further troop surge? what that would mean for our troops and our future. we'll have that straight ahead.

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>> eric: the widow of tv pitchman billy mays angry about newly released autopsy findings and debra mays may hire an independent investigator to look into the report. member of the florida medical examiner said mays used cocaine a few days before he died on june 28. the autopsy report listed heart disease as the official cause of pillly mays' death -- billy mays' death but said cocaine use contributed to the condition. he had anti-anxiety drugs in his system. the family put out the statement --

>> he said he suffered from a hip condition also. >> jamie: president obama is going ahead to mexico later today for the north american leaders summit. tonight he will meet with mexico's president. they're expected to discuss the deadly drug war that has killed thousands. but also on the agenda, the economy, drug trafficking, and other important issues. our steve harrigan is streaming live from mexico city. he has the latest. steve, let me ask you, the president will no doubt discuss the drug cartels. how serious has it gotten there? >> jamie, it's probably the biggest problem facing mexico today. it's really a threat to the state and to its on democracy. before president obama's arrival, there had been thousands of mexican --

[ inaudible ] look at the numbers 25, people killed here in the last two days alone. if you go back 18 months, 10,000 americans killed. those numbers dwarf any u.s. losses in iraq or afghanistan. during that time frame. even legally you can't call the war here, it's certainly when you look at the death toll, it's a war of enormous costly proportions inside mexico. >> jamie: are we talking about deaths within the drug gangs themselves or are there innocent civilians as well swept up in the violence? >> i think there's both. some time ago it was drug cartel fighting against drug cartel. all of them trying to vie for the u.s. routes to take cocaine, marijuana, as well as methamphetamine in the u.s. but really, the drug cartel's ambitions have expanded with their power and with their money. they're attacking the state head-on. more and more we see attacks on police forces, policemen kill and politicians. basically given a choice, take our money and work with

us, or we're going to assassinate you. the real connection to the u.s. is this border violence could spread to the u.s. border states easily. here is von what one analyst ha to say. >> there is already an impact on the border. the border state in the united states are feeling the impact of the violence. and more and more you've seen different part of the united states, the violence that is being produced from the cartels. >> to magnify the fear, to magnify the intimidation, a lot of drug cartels after they commit acts of extreme violence, they film it and post it on the internet to make it reverberate and increase the fear people fear inside mexico of the power and violence they can commit. jamie? >> steve harrigan live from mexico. we'll check back with you. thank you. >> eric: we're getting new details coming in the fox news room about a car crash in california that turned

deadly. the authorities there say eight people have been killed, including four children. we'll talk live with the california highway patrol in a few minutes. >> jamie: plus, new reaction this morning from average folks that decided to show up at public meetings. trying to express the concerns they have about healthcare reform. they're being accused of being a part of some vast right wing conspiracy. they're not happy with the politicians they say are trying to dismiss their concern concerns. [ yelling ] >> who sent me here? who sent me here? i sent myself. how dare you, how dare you claim i'm part of a conspiracy! how dare you! and you want to talk about conspiracy, i'll tell you about conspiracy. you want to hear what we want to know? 3... 2... 1.

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>> jamie: recovery divers are continuing to comb the murky waters of the new york hudson river. the search efforts in the second day. they're trying to find all nine people killed in saturday's midair collision between a sightseeing helicopter and a small plane. right now you're looking at live picture of the scene where our laura ingle is. she's on the new jersey side of the river in hoboken. yesterday we talked about the debris field that extended on to the land in hoboken. they're also continuing their search in the water. what is the update there? >> we have watched the divers, they've been in the water since 8:00 a.m. this morning. in the time we've been here we have seen them remove two bodies in that time. now the fast-moving murky waters are dangerous for the divers. the police divers need to get in there and do their work but they need to do their work quickly because the tide

and the current will change in the next few hours. everybody is well aware of the dangerous situation at hand. we're waiting for official word as the confirmation of the bodies came from the helicopter that is still underneath the water. and the small fixed wing aircraft is also underwater as we. no -- as we know. ntsb officials don't want to confirm that until they talk to the camera. we have been able to eyeball it from the shoreline in the hudson river. race against time. the dean of engineering at the nearby stevens institute of technology, dr. michael brunno was on site and he has been providing critical information to the dive teams as to how the part of the river really works. one of the things we want to mention is we're told that the helicopter is upside down, stuck in that si silt. what they'll do, the barge -- not a barge. u.s. engineer boat has a crane on it.

the yellow and black craft you see. what they'll do when it's time and apparently the sign is near, they will put the crane in the water. they're going to wrap a wire around the helicopter and bring it up. they want to make sure they have the bodies they can safely remove out of the water and portion of the river before they bring up the aircraft. that should happen in the next two hours from what we're told. back to you. >> jamie: laura ingle live in hoboken. thank you so much. >> you know about the anger at some of the town hall. the anger and the outburst are manufacturer and fake or organized. others say it is just the eruption of people's feelings when they're at the town halls, being conducted by some members of congress. this has forced some member of congress to cancel town halls that they have had. one just this past week

occurred in des moines, where 200 people showed up. and were interrupting democratic senator tom harken several times. one man in particular, let's take a look at some of that town hall. >> senator harken, senator harken, you show me one good indian reservation with excellent medical care. i'll be the first to say yes, i want to be jealous of that. >> look at the indian care we'll all march to the indian reservations and say that's great. let's do it. until we get to the indian reservations correct, we ain't going to do anything. >> why don't you go home? >> senator harken said there are scare tactics, misinformation and obstruction involved in those outbursts. >> jamie: the town hall outburst over healthcare reform has lawmakers changing their strategy. many of them are opting for

smaller sessions. some are only holding them over the phone or meeting with the constituents face-to-face. in an attempt, it would seem, to avoid protest or anger. here is a reason why. look at this heated moment in a healthcare meeting held by michigan congressman john dingal. >> i have a question for this young man. he has a right to be represented. i'm his father and i want to talk to you face-to-face. on the obama healthcare plan that you support, this man would be given no care whatsoever because he's a cerebral palsy handicapped person. >> we put an amendment in to address his specific problem. as the bill was going through committee -- >> no, no, no! >> that was mike you were listening to. his son scott was in the wheelchair and would be shown the door by police. he believes people like scott will be left out of any healthcare reform. he's actually going to join fox as a guest on america's

newsroom at 9:00 a.m. tomorrow. >> eric: to the war in afghanistan now. nato's chief calling for more troops there, as the violence escalates. the month of july, last month has been the war's deadliest so far. 76 coalition troops were killed. 43 of those were our troops. clashes and attacks are surging. the taliban insurgency now at the fair since the u.s.-led invasion in 2001 toppled the government. do we need a major surge in afghanistan? lettee bring in fox news -- let's bring in fox news contributor, lieutenant general tom mcnurney. good to see you. >> thank you. >> eric: it seems to be getting worse. are more troops the answer? >> we are going to need more troops over there, eric, but we are also going to need a strategy that is concise and people can understand. right now, the obama strategy i do not believe is concise and people can understand that. why do i say that? first of all, he identifies a

threat as al-qaeda. the threat is radical islam. he doesn't call it global war on terror. i don't know what he calls it. it's war on islam. until we identify the objectives and what we have to do, then we will have a difficult time implementing the strategy. we can't just kill our way through the problem. >> eric: the administration is talking about what you suggest, changing their strategy, dealing with long-term security for example. economic projects. how can you do that in this type of country? how successful will that be when you have the taliban trying to kill us? >> exactly. the taliban are indigenous to afghanistan. they're indigenous to pakistan. they call it the afghan-pakistan theater of war. they're both directly

related. the prime objective is pakistan. the instability they create in afghanistan is causing instability in pakistan. getting back on point, the increase in troops over there will bring the greater casualties in provinces because we're going places we haven't been before. to secure it, they talk about the long-term security will involve more troops. the troops need to know why they're fighting. they're killed daily and are fighting a global war that's related. >> eric: what do we do? how do we change the mindset? how can you flip a taliban terrorist? >> you're not going to flip the taliban terrorists at the senior level, no matter what they do. it's different from what we did in the anbar province and anbar awakening in iraq. what you're going to have to do is you have to get afghans to take the threat on and recognize that there is a

threat within islam. the radicals want to dominate moderate islam. until the afghan and the muslims take charge, we're going to need $4 billion at least a year to give to the afghan government. it ought to come from saudi arabia. saudi arabia ought to be involved with this and recognize that the radical islamists do not recognize -- do not represent islam. so they have to get involved. >> eric: but what are the chances of that? they have been funding the schools and so forth. there is really no chance of that. >> great question. if they don't, they will bear the burden in the long run. the small number, considering the radical islamists. if you don't get muslims involved and say we're the problem, they're killing more muslims than americans or other infidels. they have to stand up or

we'll be there for a long, long time. remember, afghanistan has never had central rule like iraq did. so you have a great tribal area there, tribes dominate and the area is faster. we could put 160,000 u.s. troops in there and we still won't solve the problem. we have to recognize what the problem is. we need more afghan troops and more muslim nation states participating in the fight and involved. why aren't the saudi arabians over there helping to protect afghanistan? they're military. why don't we have other muslim nations in this fight? if they don't recognize what the fight is you talk violent extremists, violent extremists, the government is now talking about, what are the violent extremists? it's like the war on terror? what is the war? it's radical islam. let's get the political correctness out of the fight,

address it what it is and then get muslim nations that ought to participate to help us in afghanistan and pakistan. >> eric: there is the call from the general. we had allies in wwii. maybe we need new allies on the front lines from the muslim nations as you suggest. general, great to see you. thank you for your compelling comments this morning. >> jamie: u.s. lawmakers debating an overhall of your healthcare system. they're now focussing on aco op proposal. we will tell you what it is, how it works and why it may be a deal-breaker for some democrats, maybe even some republicans. >> eric: have you heard about the young border patrol explorers? they do more than take fingerprints, like mug shots and help out. they're teenagers getting firsthand experience in fighting terrorism and border busters. how the new generation of american defenders are being prepared. he ran off with his secretary! she's 23 years old! - oh, come on. - enough! you get half. and you get half.

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>> jamie: when congress returns next month, a key battle line in the healthcare fight is a public plan versus the co-op. the public plan is the government run option favored by president obama. the co-ops are an alternative for lawmakers wary of too much government control of health. in these co-ops, the members, they purchase group purchasing power.

thee purchase in -- they purchase insurance and because of the number of people they have half a million people and they get low insurance rates. that could be a deal-breakers for democrats who are looking at the option but might not choose it. nina chorenko director of the health policy study of heritage foundation and joining me now. good morning. >> good morning. thank you for having me. >> jamie: great to talk to you about this, because the health co-op has been bantered about for a while and the question is whether or not it's the right less government run, actually non-government and non-for-profit. is that the right way to go? who is in favor of iit? >> first, devil is in the details. we haven't seen specifics that we can grab on to. if the co-op is run by the government, controlled by the government and funded by the government, there is no difference between that and a public plan. i think congress needs to decide whether they're going to truly move away from the

public plan option and use the co-op idea to push market-base solution rather than the government naming it a co-op. >> jamie: there is an example of co-op in the state of washington. how has it worked there? when they say john pro non-prof they really non-profit? >> co-ops organized by business, a great example to show they exist in the healthcare marketplace. the question goes back to what is the role the federal government is going to have in these? i think we have to make sure that we kind of clear the line of saying what is the proper role of the government, versus why can't -- what can the government do to make more happen? the best move is get out of the way when it comes to creating the co-op. >> jamie: the goal is cost containment. everyone on both sides of the aisle who wants some reform, the goal is bring down the cost. when you see the plans presented so far and the fact

that the congressional budget office can't really decide on what costs what, and as you say, the devil is in the details, we don't get a lot of details on the plan. the healthcare co-op, is it being brought up by the democrats to lure some of the republicans in to this type of reform? >> i think that if it's an honest attempt to create bipartisan bill, there are mel ents that could work -- elements that could work. as you mention, pooling more people together creates better value in purchasing. that is a great idea. the question is what is the role the federal government will have in these? shouldn't we just let it create itself through the private market rather than have the government come and control the market itself through the co-op? the democrats -- >> jamie: go ahead. go ahead. >> the democrats need to make a clear distinction whether this is going to truly be the new option that has less government in it, or is it just going to be a public plan renamed a co-op? >> jamie: that is so interesting, nina. you have seen the people who show up at the town meetings,

even doctors trying to ask questions of the elected representatives. many of them are shown the door. they're not getting the answers they want. i'm sure you're familiar with the poll number of the president which have slipped when it comes to how he is handling healthcare. people like what they have. what do you think will happen when capitol hill, everybody reemerges, the senate takes a look at the options that came together in the house. do you think we'll get some sort of reform or is there a possibility that the whole plan could be dropped? >> i think if they're listening to the american people, there is great opportunity. i don't think the american public thinks there shouldn't be any change. we may need to take a step back and think how large of a change do we need and how much overhaul of the system displaces people's existing coverage. when congress comes back, they would probably be farewell if they took a step back and rethought of a way

to target the healthcare coverage without messing what others need. >> jamie: you study this extensively. i read what you have written and how much you look into the issue. the question is people are concerned about what will happen. i'm just wondering whether or not you think there is a perfect plan and when it does come together, whatever it is, how much do you think we'll really know about it? are you concerned at all about oversight? >> i'm concerned in particular about getting to, as i said at the beginning, getting to the details on this. a difference between what happened in the clinton debate on healthcare reform versus now, there was one piece of legislation that people could read and understand and ask questions and get responses to. rite now, we have moving parts all over congress and the american people are getting nervous. when congress comes back, key thing is drying lines in the sand and start looking to see what is the proproposproproposag

to look like and talk about how the policies will impact the people. >> jamie: nina, thank you so much, from the heritage foundation. appreciate your time today. >> thank you for having me. >> eric: a police chase ends in tragedy. car plows into to car full of children. the crash killed eight people. we will talk to the highway patrol about what happened. >> jamie: new developments on the hudson river where the divers are continuing to comb for wreckage and all of the victims from a mid-air tragedy. we'll go to the recovery site and bring you the latest. >>>ñ

>> jamie: u.s. border patrol

is trying to recruit the agents of tomorrow. so they teamed up with the boy scouts, agency that runs a program to give young volunteers a taste of life in law enforcement. the experience doesn't come from lectures or textbooks, no. they go out on the border. the border patrol taking the teenagers out of the classroom, changing them for action. our casey stegall is live on the u.s.-mexico border. >> you spent time with the border patrol agents and they're getting a pretty real experience, aren't they? >> they are. you and i both know you can read something all you want in a textbook but you get a feel for it when you see it and experience it in person. the high school students, 15, 16, 17-year-olds are on the border. it's so realistic it is modelled after the real u.s. border patrol training academy. the young recruits are doing

everything from confronting suspected illegal immigrants to raiding fake marijuana fields. they're repelling down walls, learning how to cope in the elements because awe owe, no it can be hot working out in the desert along the border. all of the scenario designed to give them as close to the real deal and give them a field to work for the u.s. custom and border protection. they are going on to become border patrol agents, some of them. it takes 20,000 border patrol agents to secure the boards every day. >> jamie: we need every one of them willing to take on the task. casey stegall live at the border. thank you. >> eric: we have new information over the deadly collision over the hudson river in new york city. coming up, we will tell you more about who the victims are and what investigators that have been able to piece together so far. >> jamie: also, a fifty child

dice after a police chase in california goes horribly wrong. we will talk to highway patrol sergeant about this horrific crash. rewrite your hair's past and give it a whole new life. new aveeno nourish plus. active naturals wheat formulas proven to target and help repair damage in just three washes. - building shiny, strong... - hair with life. announcer: new aveeno nourish plus. - oh, come on. - enough! you get half. and you get half. ( chirp ) team three, boathouse?

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>> eric: liz trotta is usually here at this time to take on the media, but she's off this sunday. we'll continue for the news that involves the investigation underway in fresno, california, after a high-speed police chase ended there with a horrifying crash. we're learning that the crash claimed another life.

it started when plus in danuba, southeast of fresno, tried to make a routine traffic spop. -- traffic stop. the suspect drove through a stop sign and slammed into a pick-up truck carrying a family, five children, one through eight. four children d died at the scene and we're learning that a fifth child has also died. we're joined from sergeant howard of the california highway patrol. as the investigation continues what are you piecing together and what is the latest? >> we're trying to continue to identify some of the parties that were involved through the coroner's office. >> our heart goes out to the family involved. you had three suspects in one car. the children were ages one, three, four and seven. is there any sense that

this -- when you have a horrific death toll like this, it could have impact on the police chases or what the procedures are? >> unfortunately, the police chases have been consider con a necessity of crime enforcement in this particular situation. of course, it started as a routine traffic stop. it was determined shortly after the shot and the suspect's vehicle was a stolen vehicle. so often by the time information is known in a situation like this, when it occurs, very horrific. >> eric: any indication you say it was a stolen vehicle, that's the dodge neon.

>> yes, the dodge neon. >> eric: do you know if any of the suspects in that car had criminal histories? >> well, the coroner's office in the county is still attempting to identify the three individuals that were in that vehicle. so until they're identified, we won't be able to confirm that they were involved in this or not. >> finally, sergeant howard, i imagine the lesson in this is the police stop you and you are driving a car, stop. don't run. don't engage in a chase. it could be dangerous and have deadly consequences. >> absolutely. the party that caused this not only killed individuals but gave up their own life by failing to stop. >> as the investigation continues, thank you for joining us on sunday morning. that does it for us for now. i'm eric shawn