thanks for watching fox news channel, real journalism, fair and balanced, keep it right here for the business block, next. the unemployment rate finally falls and stocks take off. the stocks soaring as the government reveals that the national jobless rate is slipping from 9.5 to 9.4%, the first job in 15 months. the president is saying we can see light at the end of the tunnel but that's no reason to stop the spending. if the economy is getting stronger, isn't that what we need to do? good morning, everybody. this is "bulls and bears. " let's get right into it. gare write br smith and eric bolling and nancy skinner, welcome to everybody. the jobsless rate dropped. is it time to stop the spending?

>> i think this is the one time nancy and i will be in agreement because i applaud the obama administration. here's why, because of their ineptitude in getting almost 90 of the stimulus money out, they have only spent about 10%, they have not managed to damage the economy. low and behold, the economy has bounced back on its own, so i say take the other $670 trillion you got there and give it back to the american people, but of course, they don't want to do that because they want to remake everything that we know, but yes, the stimulus should stop immediately. >> you know that's a billion, not a trillion. >> you're right, you're right. >> do you agree with him? >> no. the stimulus is finally working. we take a dying patient. we give them antibiotics, give

them i.v., defibrillator and all of a sudden the tube breaks and we are going to pull them out and put a cigarette and whiskey in the patient's mouth. we still have 9.4% unemployment. the shovel ready projects, here in michigan, they announced a billion dollars worth of battery and new car technology. it is just starting. let the process work. >> eric, well, she does have a point. jobs continue to be cut. >> oh, come on. we didn't even talk about the $72 billion that the tarp banks paid back. you're talking $800 billion sitting there. they can stop. to nancy's point, no, you didn't give them penicillin, you didn't give them antibiotics. you gave them a band-aid and an aspirin. by the way, if that fixes the problem, stop spending it. send the money back, a better

idea than inflating your way into another recession. >> she also said a whiskey bottle for the patient. >> the big news is that we only added 7,000 government jobs. that was the most startling number. if we stop spending money on just the new programs, that would be fabulous. if we did spend money on actual capital stuff, stuff that actually cut costs out of the system, adds to productivity, that will pay dividends because it will actually pay for itself. the stuff we should stop tomorrow is supporting the state budgets, all these things that are simply transferred, we could stop that tomorrow and let thes fall where they -- let the chips fall where they may. >> during the depression, f.d.r. had a great stimulus program. everyone got scared, and we had

a w recession and could fall right back into it. this is not the time to change course. >> the difference is during that time he got a huge amount of employment out there that they turned into a pot of income because these people were building stuff. what we have added money into, i don't think it is analogous because we're not building anything other than a dumpy road next to my house. >> pat, so the economy is improving, should we stop spend org keep it going? >> it's improving pretty slowly. right now, the government is about the only entity spending money. consumer savings rate is still heading pretty far north. consumer confidence is still low. you are not seeing a lot of capital spending out of businesses f the economy recovers faster than one would have thought and i think we're seeing more positive trends than certainly i would have thought at march 9, the low, you can ramp back on things. put some of the brakes on it, but i think stopping cold and

going cold turkey right nows does not seem to be the right answer with 9.4% unemployment and an economy that is, unfortunately, only with one engine right now, which is government spending. >> the government has two engines. the government is up 50% from the low. the jobs we lost in january, 741,000 jobs in january r this past most recent month, 247,000, that is a substantial improvement. stop spending. >> isn't it hard, nancy, to have it both ways? >> any other recession, losing 250,000 jobs in a month would not be good news. >> i want to let nancy have a chance. it is hard to have it both ways, nancy, if you say the economy is improving, so you have to keep spending? >> yes. we passed $787 billion in stimulus. those projects are being billed

out at the states. there is consumer confidence. the markets are are up, eric, because consumers are starting to feel good and inventories are drawing down. housing recovery, all these things work together, the housing, the stimulus package. >> do you still think she agrees with you? >> she agrees with one thing, bigger government. maybe she can clear it up here. if the economy is going bad, spend a lot of money. if the economy is improving, spend a lot of money. if the economy is slowly improving, spend a lot of money. i'm trying to figure out where there is a time in the history of our nation, recessions, depressions, boom times, bad times where nancy wouldn't say spend billions of dollars. it sounds like anytime is a good time. >> the bush tax cuts came

whether we had good times or bad and we had a huge deficit. this is for fiscal restraint down the road. >> what fiscal restraint? he has the biggest deficit in the history of mankind, for crying out loud. >> he saved this country from a crisis like the depression. >> which we have done. >> let's separate the acts that were taken in september and october, which i think his history will show kept us from melting down and then we had a tarp plan, which led to the point of not letting the stock market break down. my problem is that the free market now has a chance to take a hold and we're hitting the bottom of the housing market

because free market people are going into to buy. all the obama plans didn't work. >> look at cash for clunkers alone. >> we're actually going to get into that at the bottom of the show. hold on, everybody! you know what? our producers are so smart, they were actually going to do a beautiful segue into cash for clunkers coming up next, but thanks, guys. coming up 15 minutes from now -- >> you know, politicians say these angry healthcare protestors are just faking it, but neil's gang has proof they are as real as real can be. you will see it at the bottom of the hour. but first, cash for clunkers. we promised. all that taxpayer green was supposed to get faster and easir than ever before? well now you can, introducing the new... powerful... lightweight... oreck xl platinum vacuum.

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the business block, only on fox. >> so congress handing out another $2 billion for cash for clunkers. it is more like clunkers for guzzlers? the plan meant to get more green cars on the road is getting gas hogs, too. i'm talking big s.u.v.'s and did you know you could buy a hummer in this plan? add that to the carbon footprint that scraps all those clunkers an eric says this green plan ain't so green. >> that's right, bren d.a. you can buy a hummer, a tahoe, a suburban. it should have been all american car, all detroit.

whatever. we will move on from that. think about all the carbon you are remitting when you smash these cars. a little known dirty secret is that a lot of these cars aren't being smashed. they're turning up on the road again in other places in this country, and it's purely against the rules. >> actually, eric makes a good point, because scrapping the cars only reduces the co2 if the replacement provides more than twice the fuel economy of the vehicle it replaces, and that's not happening. >> it is happening, in fact. you're talking about a study that was based on the minimum, if the bare minimum was done. the results are already in and the average increase in fuel efficiency is ten miles a gallon, 61 increase. 83% of those are trucks being traded in for more fuel efficient cars, ford escape hybrids, ford focus are on the top of the lists. i agree with you eric bolling, they should have been all american, but the southern senators had to get the foreign companies in, but even with the

foreign sales, 50% are played here in the united states, so this green is, indeed green in this case. we have improved efficiency and the life-span of these vehicles. the old cars wont be on the road very long. the newer cars will have longer life-spans. they have better technology across the board. it is an absolute genius. >> is this green or is it backfireing? >> it is absolute genius because $4,500 for rich cars to go in and turn their car in. from a green standpoint, the only thing gene is the money coming out of my checkbook and the only thing gene is going to a dealer for a car that maybe they could have sold or not sold. if you look at the map, i love the way that the u.s. government counts cars one way, and other groups count it different. it is more trucks. you know what? this is fabulous, as long as you want to believe a big fat lie. we have gotten pretty used to that. >> the most popular would not be

the focus small car if you measured it. the government is using arcane standards, but it would be the ford's escape crossover s.u.v., so are we are really gene here? >> i'm willing to grant a little bit of gene because even a crossover will use less gas. any environmental benefits are chump change on the sidelines because the real goal of this was basically another bailout for detroit and for autoworkers who have had a rough time over the past couple of years, but kids, it is a cyclical industry, and when consumers aren't buying, they aren't buying. they knew that going in. >> swapping the newer cars often makes people drive more, so the fuel efficiency -- i mean, we're going to be using a lot of fuel anyway. >> exactly, brenda. one study says that even if this program is 100% successful, the

reduction in carbon co2 emissions, you know, versus what the plan is producing is .001%. that's if people don't drive any less, but of course they will. people are going to get out there and say, wow, i got this great new ford focus that gets, who knows, 30 miles a gallon, i can drive a little bit more. of course they're going to drive more. what's going to happen is you will see that fuel emissions won't get anywhere near that reduction. in fact, this program might even increase the carbon footprint. thank god, you know, it is just money, nancy. >> what are you smoking? you think that the price of oil is going to stay at same at $70 a barrel and predicted to go back up to $10o as soon as the economy rebounds, the price of oil will go back up. people aren't going to drive that much more. they are going to drive to work and home. >> they are getting an increase in mileage. they have to dive more, right? >> now that detroit is selling

more fuel-efficient cars, it is cheaper to build them, the price goes down, more people can afford these hybrids that you talked about, so it is about these hybrids. >> are they going to keep building these cars that nobody wants anymore? >> people want these cars! >> since we own most of g.m. and a hot of chrysler, what are we thinking? this should be ralph williams selling cars, for crying out loud. >> i take it all back. this is brilliant! >> finally! you know, what, nancy, you're very convincing. >> i'm in detroit. >> that's what it all comes down to. >> so, one man's whose, another man's gain. how the president's poll numbers drú1

>> so take a look at this. on the left, the president's poll numbers since he took office, falling, and on the right, the dow during the same time, soaring. you say it is no coincidence? >> it is a fact. stocks do better when the approval rating goes under 50. it has done that with reagan and under bush. when bush's ratings were going down, the market was going up. he peaked when the market was having a rough time.

it is just the math. there is psychology behind t i'm sure there is a lot of stuff. let's not argue the facts. >> this rally began in march when the president's approval ratings were pretty high. >> exactly. you know, i think this occurred when george washington's ratings were down and they were trading under the buttonwood tree. to expand on this point, maybe this is a vote, at least in this case, for capitalism. maybe people are thinking, oh, my gosh, this won't be one big government thing. there will be a more capitalistic approach as obama's ratings power goes down. it is historic. in fact, when the approval ratings are under 50, the market is up, on average, about 9.2%. there is an historical biased. the market generally does go up more than go down.

maybe this is the obama rally. i wish nancy was around to talk about that. >> i think it has a lot to do with theel fact that wall street likes it when washington can't do anything. >> log jams. >> any president, republican, democrat. >> when you have a republican in office or democrat in congress, or vice versa, not much happens in washington, wall street likes it. with approval ratings below 50%, the stocks are up. when it is over 65% -- i have a new timing system for the market now. i literally will look at the formula and then add in these numbers. >> pat, if the market does not like it when the president does too poorly, when the approval ratings get below 30%, that's a problem. >> that's true. we have all these statistics, and the study we are talking

about, look, weekly gains in the stock market, so if you basically hold the stocks for one week, and i look at things over a slightly longer time, so i'm perhaps a little bit more skeptical of the numbers than the panel. >> that's a long time for gary. don't insult him! >> it is, indeed. in his world, that's long term and god bless him. >> instant gratification is too slow for me. >> all right, guys, thank you, guys. so you think you missed out on this rally? why someone here says yououououu

>> it is now a bull market. in a normal bull market, we're probably going to get 20% or so from here. we're just back to where we were before the meltdown here. the dbm is double that. if you want to participate, i'm not guaranteeing next july, but this bull market is real. i want to say it will double. >> do you agree? >> well, you know, it is a year from now, so you always have a good chance, but i think right now we need a -- maybe after the next dip, which i do not think it will be substantial, but then

he we will go up 40%. >> you are saying 40% in a year? >> yeah. >> are you saying he is full of bull? >> i would never say that. the man is honest and truthful as the day is long. >> stay away from the doubles and triples right now. there is talk about pulling them out of the market and we may not be able to get out of them. keep your eye on that. i think the market is in place for a dip before a rally. >> and pat, i know you are going to say to leavage with etm's. >> that's why you should follow me on twitter. gary, your prediction, please? >> i tell you what, i still think people are into this whole prudent spending thing. it's back-to-school time. you can buy into target, which is looking fantastic at this point. i think it's up 20% by the end of the year. >> pat, do you agree with that? >> back-to-school spend something going to be horrific. no. >> oh, all right. i like target.oñ?ñ?

toby, do you agree? >> i think wal-mart is the play. that's what our numbers are. statistics say wal-mart is the play. >> pat, what do you like if you don't like target and back to school. >> healthcare companies, bdx sells needles, sharps, things that hospitals have to buy, and they got whacked on irrelevant stuff last week, 11 times cash eernings, wonderful cash flow business. >> gary, you think it will head lower? >> yes. after ten years, pat finally acknowledged that his picks are pratt dorsey's stocks. >> we have more fuel efficient cars so oil has to go up. devon energy, a gat