[captioning made possible by fox news channel] captioned by the national captioning institute --www.ncicap.org-- >> tonight, wait until you see the president's latest poll numbers. >> that's why we are going to pass health insurance reform in 2009. >> the honeymoon is over but he is still moving full speed ahead. >> it needs to be dumped. >> and an angry country is fighting back. >> i would be interested to see who you got the e mail from. sean: is the white house spasming the american people.

>> no offense to crossdressers. sean: james traficant is getting out of jail. plus karl rove, tucker carlson and premier of our "sleen-in panel." americans are outraged by the health care bill. the daily presidential tracking poll has the approval rating at a negative eight with those who strongly disapprove of his performance outnumbing those who strongly approve. the president continues. he is living in his own radical bubble. today he had another one of those town hall events where there was wide public support for nanny-state health care and lots of love, praise and support for the annointed one, the president of the united states. and here are some scenes from the president's town hall from earlier today in montana. >> that is for all.

[applause] >> thank you, montana. thank you. [applause] sean: nobody in the president's make-believe world rkts they don't like guns very much in montana, do they? >> i'm a proud n.r.a. member. [applause] >> i believe in our constitution and it's a very important thing. sean: i think four people clapped. did you hear the crickets chirping even though there are people in montana who believe in second amendment rights. joining me now is karl rove. welcome to the studio. >> thanks for having me here. the hannity headquarters. sean: i like that. let's start with the poll numbers and you brought the

black board and let's look. >> this is the backdrop. his job approval in the fox poll, 53-40 approve, disapprove. but among independents, 49-44 and that is a shift from a few weeks ago when it was 54-38. so in a matter of three weeks, it has declined among independents and you see that same decline in independents in health care reform. 34% approve. 49 disapprove. among independents, 29-50 and in july it was 33-43. sean: i want to stay on that number, because the gal up poll shows, 2-1 independents have moved away from obamacare, why do you think that is happening? >> should we do something about the deficit or health care as

the fox poll asked. 57% of overall said, let's do something about the deficit, 34% said health care. among the independents, 59-32. what we had was a flood of spending, $787 billion stimulus, the schip bill, the omnibus spending bill. we had $350 billion in the bank rescue bill, which he voted for last year. that money wept out the door and now he says he has $1 trillion health care bill and the american people said, you're right. we are out of money. sean: the white house spin now is and we have been showing people all week these angry mobsters out there, political terrorists, -- >> evil-doers.

sean: they are saying is that the american people are misinformed and not getting the truth but probably watching folks like hannity on fox news. it seems to me that the american people are pretty informed and that's why it happened. are they out of touch? >> i think there are two reasons. i think they are to some dre out of touch. he are living inside a bubble and they are dismissing their own polling because it's in every poll. there was a new poll out today. pew, gal up. decline and support among independents and large group of people moving against this plan. but the important tactical reasons are this. i think they want to have a battle over process, because if we are arguing about town hall meetings, we aren't arguing about the substance of the bill and what has gotten them into difficulty is the substance of the bill. they want to reassure the 60 democratic senators and the democrats in the house, they

are trying to dismiss them. they are nuts. the polls are saying, they represent an emerging strong majority in america that says no. sean: we have spent a lot of time talking about what is now commonly known as the death panels, these end-of-life counselors, the house will would mandate that when they're older in life, this would be mandatory and maybe more often. the senate just confirmed that they are dropping it from the bill. they had been denying it existed and now they're saying we're going to drop it. is that a victory for the people showing up at town halls? >> yes. they were trying to say these are nuts and sarah palin isn't very smart. sean: put a victory in sarp's column. >> i -- sarah palin's column. >> i found an op ed, which was

a soup esh and said this is a real problem give financial incentives to doctors where we relied upon them working out with layer lawyer and now we are going to have a doctor going to make complicated decisions. and going to give them money to do it and then have them provide key questions and available resources. and the government defines both. is the government going to say, the catholic church is an available resource when it comes to a question as to how you should answer these end of life questions. sean: let's go to specifics. we don't know how we're going to pay for it or the end of life counselors. we don't know if we can keep our insurance. that's on page 16 of the bill. there are privacy issues and

how to pay for it all. will we -- will the american people really understand that before this vote takes place? >> i hope so. i think they do. they have some instinct. but the president is misleading people. when you showed the clip of the fellow from the n.r.a. who said how do we pay for this? he said i'm not going to tax people who make less than $250,000. sean: small businesses are taxed. >> a small business who says i can't afford it rg, they will have to pay an 8% tax of their payroll. it is costing more than 8% now. and the c.b.o. says $163 billion is going to be paid by workers with smaller paychecks. there's an $8 billion tax on people who use stuff in their health savings accounts for over the counter drug purchases. 2.5% tax on a health plan that

is not acceptable by the government and $2 billion tax that all of us pay. sean: i want to talk about the political implications. look at harry reid's numbers. chris god is in trouble. governors corzine and paterson of new york, corzine is losing by a lot. bob mcdonald has a big lead. toomey is plipping the polls by 20 some odd points. do you think this holds, as time goes on or is this a short-term bump for the republicans? >> it has long-term ramifications. between now and november of 2010 is like several geology call ages will come and go between now and then. but it is a significant change and likely to remain because the administration in my opinion is not going to respond in a appropriate way. we'll have our first test in november in new jersey and

virginia. and i suspect we will see republican pickups. sean: sign that for me. karl rove. thanks. it's the preliminary year of our "sleep-in panel." you get to sleep in on sunday morning. but first, david axelrod, is he spasming you with e mails urging you to support obamacare. how is the white house defending itself?

sean: americans around the country have been receiving unexpected e mails from the president's political operatives and it urges support for the president's health care plan, but how did the white house get a hold of these e mail addresses? major garrett put the question to robert gibbs and here's what he had to say. >> speaking of the e mail, how does the list on who would receive it determined? >> i believe it's from people who signed up to receive e mail updates from the white house. >> the reason i have asked, i

have received e mails from people who did not seek communication tr the white house and not registered or on a website -- let me finish my question. >> would have never signed up for anything related to this white house, senator obama as a candidate, senator obama as anything and received e mails from david axelrod. >> i would be interested to see how got it from and whether or not they're on the list. >> i would like to know how they got an e mail from the white house when they never asked for one. >> you might impugn the motives of the answer. >> i'm telling you what i got. >> and i'm simply saying -- let me go to somebody else that might be constructive. sean: ouch. joining me now to discuss this is the executive vice president , tony blakely.

so, first of all, major is hitting on an important issue, is the white house spasming people's e mails and if theyr where did they get it from? >> we don't know what the answersr but there are two zones. i think the white house has to be worried about. i was on ronald reagan's white house staff for six years and there were a lot of protocols about what you could and couldn't do, what you can use for information for partisan purposes versus governmental purposes. and the general counsel of the white house is always careful to let us know what we could and couldn't do. here, you have a number of problems that may or may not be legal, but he also -- we don't know the answers yet. and we have a political problem, because even if they've got the information and are using it legally, the use of e mail and spasming e mail

may be a bigger political problem than ethical problem they may or may not have. the first danger for any white house is to refuse to be forthcoming and now we are a couple of days into this and at least as of now, i believe, they haven't explained the details yet. so every day that they don't answer it, people have a right to be more concerned about why they're not answering it. sean: there are a lot of privacy issues. as i went through and i finally got through this mundane, borrowing 1,000-page bill that the house put out. but there are a lot of privacy issues that come up here, tony. for example, a center for comparative if he cantiveness, government will build registries for your electronic medical records, secure the data from the department or agency and they'll collect data and publish and unpublish. there are a lot of privacy issues. while we have been focused on

the death panels and cost, there are a lot of privacy issues that nobody is talking about, right? >> yes. in the health bill itself -- in any health care reform, there are huge privacy issues, what does the government do with the data has, who do they give it to, hold it back from, do they use the data to make determinations about what kind of treatment people ought to get. so when you have -- on this email business, a question raised regarding the improper use, if it's that, data that the white house has and raising the same privacy issue that a lot of us are going to have regarding the substance of the bill, it's only a bigger political problem. i would advise the white house and i'm sure this is something that should be worked through with the general counsel and chief of staff that they start getting on top of this quickly, because every day that this hangs out there, if they aren't able to manage information as

something simple as an email, what happens if this becomes law and they have all of our health data. sean: we did a focus group on the program last night -- >> i saw it. sean: we have 14 obama supporters and 13 who voted for mccain, but they were almost unanimous in being concerned about this aspect that an or wellian nightmare that neighbors are going to rat out neighbor if they are sending out misinformation. >> look, i mean, maybe the white house staff is not sufficiently experienced in national politics. they ran a wonderful campaign, but there are certain things that any administration wants to make sure they don't raise unjustified fears. we have real concerns about privacy, about the big hand of government. and these are valid concerns we should always have, whatever administration is in office. if an administration lets these

doubts rise without putting them down, they create problems for themselves and for the trust between the government and the people. so i think there is a little bit of inexperience in the white house staffers in not managing this as well as they could. maybe there are bad things that we don't know about, but even if nothing's wrong, they are managing it very badly. sean: i agree with that and that dovetails to the big story, the outright attack of politicians, leaders of the democratic party against the american people. if we couple that with this craig's list ad that says, you can make $600 a week if you support obamacare at these town hall meetings, but have you ever witnessed anything as stupid as attacking the american people in trying to convince them that your agenda is the right agenda for the future? >> the president was careful not to follow the pelosi lead.

and obviously, the public's right to complain and speak up. this is the essence of our freedom that we can dissent and dissent loudly. nonviolently, but raise our voices when we are concerned and the president didn't cite sizz it. on the other hand, the speaker of the house and democratic senators started diss parraging their own voters. sean: clearly to me they are tone deaf. he will have more. this woman showed up at a town hall event claiming to be a doctor. she is not an m.d.. egúx

sean: and tonight in "hannity's

america," she's not a doctor. now at the cell phone town hall hosted by congresswoman sheila jackson lee, a woman who claimed to be a doctor stood up in praise of health care reform. >> i know i'm a general practitioner. >> she is a primary care physician. i love her. [applause] >> how long have you been practicing? >> four years. sean: don't be fooled. that woman is no doctor. the blog corresponded with her and she admits she lied at the event and she tried to explain herself. the blog revealed that the woman was a delegate for obama in 2008.

politico.com looked at all of his speeches delivered by the president since he took office and counted the number of times he has used certain words. he has said health more than the words, iraq, iran, afghanistan and terrorism combined. here are the specifics. out of over 670,000 words reviewed, president obama has said america 3,000 time, change, 700 times and afghanistan and iraq were uttered less than 400 times. i guess protecting the homeland is a part-time job. >> now it's time for great moments in liberal foreign policy. sean: and tonight's great moments. iran's presidential elections sparked protests. the iranian people believed

they were rigged to ensure that ahmadinejad victory. iranian news sources reported that u.n. secretary-general congratulated on his so-called victory and his spokesperson said he did so. she now says the letter merely, quote -- sean: i'm sure that president ahmadinejad is eager to cooperate with the u.n. and the rest of the international community. and timely tonight, good news for fans, former ohio representative james traficant, the congressman convicted of bribery, racketeering and fraud is now set to be released from a minnesota jail on september 2. the congressman will receive a hero's welcome, a welcome dinner is already sold out. for those of you wondering what

these people are celebrating, well, let's look at traficant in action. >> i have enough pressure on me, not only people leaning on me that don't smell good -- you smell good. >> my throat is sore. and i'm having rectal disorders, as a matter of fact. >> if they lie again i'm going to kick them in the crotch. >> you had an f.b.i. director named hoover, no against to costdressers who was a trans investigate diet. beam me up. >> lot of time studying your case. >> who am i speaking to snr sean: sean hannity. he is the second member to be expelled since the civil war. that is the news tonight. let not your heart be troubled.

the "sleep-in sunday panel" is straight ahead.

sean: and tonight we are launching a new friday night panel called "the sleep-in sunday panel." you can enjoy the weekend and get a few more hours sleep on sunday morning.

we have doug schoen. tucker carlson is here. and national security and pentagon correspond ent, sarah carter. and you gave up the bow tie several years ago. let's start the president's town hall. if they would have had the confetty and balloons, it would have been a convention. everybody standing. one guy mentions that three people clapped in montana. let's watch him attack fox news. >> i believe in our constitution and it's a very important thing. i also get my news from the cable networks, because i don't like the spin that comes from the other places. >> you got to be careful of those cable networks. >> you can't tell us how you're going to pay for this. you are saving here, saving over there, take a little money here and there, but you have no money.

the only way you're going to get that money is to raise our taxes. you said you wouldn't. >> look, you are absolutely right that i can't cover another 46 million people for free. you're right. i can't do that. sean: that was one truth. can we all agree on the panel. does anyone disagree that this was a well choreographed? >> absolutely. and they managed to lower the volume for today. but as you heard, sean, the president didn't have a good answer to that question. and what's driving public opinion is not outrage and venom, but rational people with real concerns about the role of government and cost of government. sean: we have been friends a long time and i think you have been trying to warn your fellow democrats why they are referring to people showing up at these meetings as political terrorists and mobsters and

nazis and brown shirts? >> it is tragic. i will give the president credit for this. he is at least trying to lower the tone and the rhetorical excess, because bottom line, sean, it's unamerican to engage in that kind of division and hate, because we are all americans and we want to work together. sean: ladies and veterans being called un-american by nancy pelosi. one, this is all -- these town hall meetings are being infiltrated by industry, opponents to the plan and working on behalf of trade groups, which actually support the plan. so that's absurd or the republican party, which all of a sudden has become incredibly organized. all of a sudden, my son -- they

are able to rally. this is a we'll grass-roots movement. >> this is a grass-roots movement. town hall meetings have occurred since the founding of this country. the american people are insulted when they are attacked and treated like they don't understand what's going on. look, the american people want to know the truth. they want the president to answer their questions. and i think there's nothing wrong with that. and we have a right, as people, to understand what the government is doing with our health care. i mean, this is a very serious issue. sean: there were two great questions, one was by the n.r.a. guy, how are we going to pay for this. and the other question was, why did you start attacking the insurance industry. now the c.b.o. said, hey, all of this preventive care money we are going to spend, they find out it's going to add

costs. >> the president basically said, i only villify the insurance companies because they are not supporting my policies. and bottom line is he is not able to work with them, so he attacks with them and making them his bogey man. sean: isn't this what we see a lot? we can predict with certainty democrats will often run ads that divide this country on race lines, rich versus poor, old versus young. this seems to be a tried and true tactic. they have attacked fox, rush limbaugh, sean hannity, health care industry, banks, big business. they always need someone to hate. >> campaign politics is about division in my view, having covered a lot of campaigns, but who do you make your enemies? in the end you need insurance companies. no one says this, his plan,

insurance companies won't turn a profit. that's going to happen. sean: even the c.b.o. says, tens of millions of people are going to be forced into that public option, if you believe the heritage foundation. they are predicting 88 million people will be forced out. >> look, the administration has to answer these questions. we can't just go blindly into accepting health care program that hasn't had any -- i mean, look, we haven't divided the health care program up enough to understand what the future is going to bring about and i think the american people right now are frustrated. you know, i can't take the two sides of this, but what i can tell you, i'm getting emails every day from the american people and they feel they aren't being listened to. sean: it's one thing to attack the internet, talk radio, fox news versus the american

people. this is what makes this week very unique. >> it's very sad, sean, because we shouldn't be attacking the american people but trying to produce consensus so we can give health care reform that we can agree with. sean: you make too much sense. i don't think you should be a democrat anymore. >> with all due respect, the republican party has serious problems that tucker and sarah would agree with. we all gee that we can do a better job with our health care system. sean: i agree. tuscaloosa -- in addition to what has been said, it diminishes the president to attack web sites, fox news, blogs, protestors. he is barack obama. the first democrat since jimmy carter to win the popular vote. and he is attacking fox? what is that? sean: we will continue more

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call now. sean: and we continue with our great american panel. polling for the president, personal approval, right track, wrong track, obamacare, it's all going downhill and now we had discussion about the death panels and the senate said they are going to move the provision that they told the american people didn't exist in the bill. and we spotted it on pages 425-430. how do you remove something thaw said didn't exist? >> it's magic. yes, it is, sean, magic. sean: what do you make of the polls? >> this is what i think. the american people, once that came out -- i know palin was criticized for saying it, but once the truth came out, people are not -- the american people are smart.

they understand that one little issue can turn into something else if this passes. senator grassley, he removed that. he said the senate was going to remove this provision because it made people uncomfortable and the american people are the ones that the president needs to work for. and if the american people don't want that, then they shouldn't have that in the legislation. i think that is the most important thing here, it's what the people want. >> you can add other provisions providing that provisions like that will never take effect. if you want to lower health care costs in a centralized way, they're going to inevitably look at the money spent in the final six months of life. that's the direction we're moving. you can pretend that's not true. sean: this a big week for sarah palin? she drove that debate and won. >> she did. and this is moving so quickly, but she absolutely did win. and in the face of so much

scorn -- the "new york times" devoted i don't know how many columns saying sarah palin is lying. sean: governor palin, a little faceback has so much impact. >> that's the thing, sean. politics has changed in america. facebook, email communications and yes, sir cable, twitter, cable tv drives the news much mr more than the conventional media. that's what we have seen. and the conventional media doesn't know what's going on with health care. the people are actually ahead of the pundits. sean: there is one network that seems to get this and i'm trying to be a part of it and that's the fox news channel without attacking these people or values or attacking them as a mob or calling them names. those people that showed up at the town hall meetings, they inspired me. these are veterans, stay-at-home moms and

grandmothers. >> i spoke to an industry insider who is working to stimulate turnout. he said he had a couple hundred for a couple of town halls. this is real and genuine. sean: there is a lot of outrage and i'm a christian and i believe in forgiveness, michael vick, dog fighting, i have two dogs and part of my family and spent 18 months in jail, big part of his life and people are angry that he is going to play back in the nfl and i think he should play. >> i'm a christian and don't believe in forgiveness. he can be redeemed in the eyes of god in the eyes of his family. the nfl doesn't have to take him back. he is talented and famous, that's why they took him back. sean: if he has the talent to still perform at that level.

>> let him work at denny's, that's how i feel about it. sean: you want him to work at denny's? >> he made a choice and he has paid for that and that's true. sean: i watched a portion of his interview. i thought he was compelling. >> i found him compelling along with stallworth. i think the nfl acquitted itself well this week. sean: we are an unforgiving society. we have gupes that monitor this show. >> we are a breed that we need to reconcile ourselves to achieve common purposes. >> does that mean that this guy who tortured and murdered all these dogs has a right to make millions a year and be famous? sean: not a right. but he spent 18 months in jail, tucker. do you want to spend 18 months

in jail. >> first of all, i think he should have spent 10 years, that's a. but b, i think he ought to have a regular job as everyone else. he is going to make millions a year. sean: seriousness, i'm a dog lover and it breaks my heart when think of it. but he seems sincere. i don't know why. >> i'm sure he is. sean: we examine the prophecy that present difficulties the end of the world, ahead. . what are you doing for lunch? how about beer-battered shrimp and chips... or one of our coastal soup and grilled shrimp salad combinations?

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sean: there is an industry growing at around the prophecy of the world ending in 2012. there are books, web sites, and

movies. one of these prophecies was made by the mysterious and ancient mayan culture. for decades, other cities have been excavated, their language is studied, yet this civilization still mystifies. what lies behind the shroud of thousands of years of culture, architecture? >> they come out of nowhere a long time ago and then they suddenly have these incredible astronomical insights. sean: some say that there is a prediction that the world will come to an end in the year 2012. according to the executive editor of the upcoming book " apocalypse 2012" it all comes down to their calendars. >> it all comes down to the solar calendar.

they used it to plant their crops. at the end of this,, sapiens go towards a catastrophic and. -- human beings go towards a catastrophic end. greta: whesean: when would thise place? >> it wouldecember 12th 2012 >e have a decimal counting system. we count intends. sean:a mayan 1.0 represents 20 days. the last calendar round ends with december 21st, 2012. >> the calendar that concerns us is called the long count

calendar. this gives us the cycle ending date. greta: it isean: it is also howe prophesies end. >> it describes the end of the sun ages. they all end catastrophically. our age is supposed to end in fire. sean: others to see a happier explanation. >> we know they had a cyclical philosophy. this represents the ends of a large cycle of time. we can see that they conceived of these not in some sort of apocalyptic concept but with the idea of transformation and renewal. sean: this book explores another prophecy. a galactic alignment. >> this is the alignment of the december solstice sun as you'd

from earth with a the galactic equator. the galactic equator is the milky way. this is on alignment that is caused by the procession of the equinoxes is and it happens only once every 26,000 years. sean: the next time this will happen is on december 21st, 2012. >> the evidence that we have comes from inscriptions and evidence from the early mine site that was involved in the formulation of the long count calendar. sean: this site stretches more than 1.4 miles. many believe that those who designed it were aware of the future of galactic alignment/ gretait is believed that the pas are used as astronomical observatories. there is evidence that the mayan

people use to the pyramids as altars for human sacrifice. >> the popular perception is that they are bloodthirsty but if you are going to talk about them that way, you are actually showing your lack of knowledge. to the mines, blood was the essence of life and necessary for the sun to go across the sky. >> they believed that the world needs to be transformed and inaugurated to the new cycle. sean: will humans experience a transformation of consciousness or will these predictions of a doomsday scenario or a volcano or an asteroid happen? >> on december 21st of 2012, you will wake up the next morning and it will be december 22nd and

nothing will have happened. sean: this doctor has been studying the culture ever since he was in high school. >> the mine in people never look to this far in the future. -- the mayan people never look to this far to the future. sean: for now, these theories will be argued about. course we know tha>> there is n. >> many mainstream scholars criticize this because they see this through the filters of the popular press. the alliance did have specific ideas about 2012. -- the mayans did have specific ideas. sean: we will all just have to wait and see