i'm oliver north. good night. flush captioned by, closed captioning services, inc. 3, 2, 1, make the show disappear. >> brenda: president obama set to hold a town hall event in grand junction, colorado, hours from now. he is on the road and on the defense working hard to revive healthcare reform. lots of protest he was out there, too. >> you talked about medicare. going bankrupt. you talked about social security going bankrupt. you talked about medicaid going bankrupt. not wanting you folks charging my healthcare is my number one priority. brenda: protesters today, economic heroes tomorrow? good morning, everybody. i'm brenda buttner and this is "bulls and bears." the bulls and bears this week

are here. toby, they are angry, loud and you say these town protesters are saving our economy? >> $1. trillion is the healthcare business and entrepreneurs and healthcare people felt this obama train was going down the track and unstoppable. the protest, show it is stoppable. by having it stoppable you every 1% you add in new business and start-ups that adds billions into the economy. so, they have taken the train off the runway. brenda: sarah, the protesters, what do they mean to the economy? >> what is getting lost in the discussion of protest, is the number one concern on most americans' mind is the economy. what we are losing in the discussion mainly because of a

lot of distractions and not having a constant tougher discussion about healthcare and health insurance reform is that healthcare costs, rising healthcare costs is the number one reason most middle class americans don't have more dollars in their pocket. most people who get our insurance through employers don't know what it costs and don't know what we are not getting because the premiums are going up by 20% and 50%, what our companies are paying is going up, which means no raise for the average worker, no bonus for the average worker and a lower standard of living. >> so the answer is to put 47 million on the system that we can't afford? brenda: hold on a minute, sarah. do you agree with this math? >> i don't agree. i'm glad you brought up the word economy, sarah,. the fact is this economy we have now we have the hugest deficit we have ever had. by bringing on healthcare as we have seen through studies adds

to the deficit. the economy will get worse. the fact that the stock market has rallied tells me the numbers that we do not want this. the market tells us that we do not want healthcare reform and we are feign as we are right now. brenda: what does in mean for the economy, eric? >> i think the economy is on one trajectory the stock market the other. the economy is telling us we are not that great and we probably can't afford this. we have new hampshire town hall meeting president obama gets a question from a 14-year-old daughter of a supporter. then we have montana where they end up giving him a standing ovation. versus what you see right now, the people standing up saying hey, slow down. let's fiend out what is in the pill. let's find out how much is the cost. what they are showing us is vastly different from what the american people want. by doing so, we are finding out more.

>> i'm shocked and dismayed eric. brenda: politicians often stage these on both sides of the aisle, pat. does this mean something for the economy that protesters are coming out and saying what might be wrong with the reform and stopping it? >> well, the sad thing is that neither side is focused on what really matters, which is that our physicians currently have incentive to do more and not provide quality carement you are paid for procedures, not outcomes. that is the fundamental problem with the way the healthcare system works today and it is unfortunate that none of the plans in congress address that core problem. the protest, by saying hands off, don't do anything they are not addressing it either. >> i think you are absolutely right, but the other distortion in this is that healthcare benefits are not taxed. why they stepped away from this was purely a political issue. they don't have -- >> they should be.

the fact they are not taxed is a massive distortion for those that need to get healthcare through the employer and small business people who need to purchase it outside the system. it is a massive distortion. >> i agree 100% the reason healthcare costs are so high is doctors do way more tests than they need to. not because they get paid for more. because if they don't and get sued they can lose the practice. >> that is part of it. >> eric, that is only part of it. the malpractice is an issue, but there are people who benefit economically from doing more tests. if you run a cat scan facility you benefit enormously from doing more tests. there is an economic incentive to do more procedures. it is not just could have gone your rear-end. brenda: sarah, back to this point about the protesters, it is not really their role right now to offer reform.

that is the lawmakers'. they are saying we don't like what you came up with and they are putting a big -- they are slowing this trane down as tobaccoy would say. >> i think that you hit the key point earlier, that on both sides of this argument a lot of these protests and town halls are manufactured events. what we are not having a conversation about are the three or four bills that are currently about to come up in congress. brenda: they could be yelling but they are bringing up constant testify points. people are yes, ma'aming because they are angry for a reason. >> they are angry because they have less money in their pocket because they are ensecure about the future. if we do nothing on health carry they will only get more ensecure about the future. >> let's go back to the economy here. we had a whole pullback in consumer sentiment the last couple of weeks. we were gaining, then when people started looking at the

healthcare thing the senate said if aware going to get stuck with a new plan, it does make a difference. >> they are angry the same reason i'm angry because we have not gotten the details of the bill. we don't know what is in the bill. the president doesn't understand the bill. so i'm angry that they are trying to pass something that will change the future of the country and they have not read it. >> we should have done it by august, darn it. >> that is a really important point, that we are having an argument over something that is not specific. we are yelling and screaming in a vacuum. >> sarah, honestly, if we have to have the town halls and people delaying the process it would have gone from a house bill to a senate bill to a signed bill in the white house and you would have reform that we don't know what was in the bill. >> the town halls don't start until august after congress was out. that is an important point but

we are having a conversation without specifics and that is where it gets complicated. that is where we see people's passion and fears. >> please give us specifics. >> i have seen the specifics and they are absolutely unsupportable. absolutely economic wreckers and they are not well thought out. we are addressing the problem. it is not even the big problem. this sounds like we are in kindergarten trying to decide what kind of paste we are going to use. brenda: we have our own town hall each week and these guys don't need a microphone to be heard. remember the school supplies? stimulus cash going to kids to buy school supplies . guess what their parents are buying with your tax dollars. it ain't paste. it ain't crayons. americans love a comeback story. americans love a comeback story. what about michael vick?

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path. back to "bulls and bears" now. brenda: so, here is another lesson on stimulus waste. in new york the government happeneding out 200 stimulus bucks to any kid on welfare or food stamps. that is supposed to be spent on school supplies but check out what parents are reportedly buying. video games, flat screen tv's, cigarettes, beer.

everything you need to go back to school. >> send them back with cigarettes and a backpack full of beer. this was to create jobs . how is giving somebody $200 creating jobs? give a man a fish he eats a day. teach him to fish, he eats a life time. this government is handing out fish, taking advantage. we should be out there creating jobs with this stimulus. it has been working overseas. brenda: sarah, the fish companies like this, don't they? seriously, wal-mart. stapeless -- staples they are buying. >> that is stimulus. we have to feel bad they are not getting crayons and scissors but it is money being spent. remember when george bush sent out $300 collection to all of us? -- checks to all of us >> bush's stimulus is as stupid

as this. going with your logic what we should be doing is breaking every window in our house because that is stimulating. we will have to replace them. >> that is not what i'm saying. it is money directly into the economy. >> people spend it the wal-mart employees keep their jobs. >> economic stimulus means that you have a dollar and it creates a dollar and a half or $1.75 of economic activity. when you invest in an infrastructure that increases productivity, when you put a solar panel in a building and it cuts cost that creates velocity. this is a hand youth to people and that is not a stimulus. brenda: eric. >> just library a -- just like a liberal would say spend it on what you want.

>> i don't endorse it. >> you don't create jobs. you create tree money junkies who live on that and you gave me free money so i will vote for you next time and congressional enablers are there to give away more. the government gets bigger. when the money runs out you are left with people who can't work, laysy, on the couch. free -- >> this money is a partnership between public and charityable dollars. >> it is coming from our government. >> the donated dollars -- brenda: most of it is stimulus. to be fair, the government didn't send out letters to a lot of these parents saying they needed to buy school supplies so they went to cigarettes. >> i don't think any of us have an excuse for buying beer versus crayons.

brenda: you still think it is stimulus? >> continuing is money into the economy that goes to corporations that employ people and that means you create people spending money. >> is stimulus spending on porn also? >> we had .8% unemployment when the bush checks went out. we are now at 10%. if that was stimulating it would have worked. how could you -- >> we both know that employment numbers lag economic recovery. >> not by 500 points they don't. come on. >> i have to get pat in here. you are listening too much. >> he said leave me the hell out of this. >> i'm not going to defend buying beer instead of crayons. i think that is indefensible. it sounds like having a voucher might have worked if that was the intent.

but in the end of the day i do agree that infrastructure investment is probably a better long-run enhancement to national productivity than direct cash payments which both administrations have tried. >> china is growing. they put it in infrastructure. look at germany and france. they didn't do the stimulus and they are both growing. look at other countries. >> one-fifth of the chinese stimulus is being used to buy stocks on their stock market. that is not exactly infrastructure. brenda: let's get back to paste and crayons, tobaccoy. >> this is the absolute epitome of what we talked about over the last two years on why this concept of send a check as economic stimulus is bogus. by the way, i'm sure the dems will call it an investment. >> we had stimulus from bush as

well and it wasn't earmarked for the right things. brenda: sarah, remember when i said this was a town hall. thank you so much. we appreciate your being part of it. always a good sport. who is the boss? from big executives that bailed out companies. why it won't stop in those corner offices. and what does your bank account have to do with your blood pressure? what neil's gang discovered in thththththththth

brenda: it is pay day decision day. the pay czar set to rule on how much executives at bailed out companies can make. think this doesn't matter to you. >> here is what is happening. the pay czar will tell everybody who took tarp money what they can pay. they will drop the bar. everyone else who didn't attack tarp money are saying they only get x why pay my guy 3-x. they are setting the level pay to tarp and nontarp recipients. the free market should allow people what they deserve to be paid. it also doesn't mean give them tarp money. brenda: that leaks into the private market but you are not worried about your wallet, huh? >> well, i agree that if they are artificially setting price for labor low -- this is

high-end labor. this is not janitor level stuff. but ultimately that stays within the tarp system and the tarp system is a financial services industry which is arguably already overpaid and has a bizarre model. i would be support worried if i was a c.e.o. my concern is once this guy runs out of people to go after i will arbitrarily figure out what a c.e.o. is worth and i think the last 10 years on this show that is an area where i would be concerned. brenda: pat, i would let you speak for yourself. >> executive compensation has opinion out of control a long time but that is a topic for another day. this issue is going to stay within the tarp system. these were companies that made mistakes, required government assistance to get through it, so, there is government involved in the level of pay. but i think companies outside the tarp system will say now i can poach talent from that's

people under tarp because i can pay them more because i'm not subject to the reconvictions. so it is no way going to go across the industry. it will remain with the companies that got tarp funding and everyone else will set pay at the market level and if possible poach good people from the the tarp companies. >> point well taken, patrick. but it is like government dictating prices of phase. we are going to drop the price of mortgages so they pushed mortgage prices down. everyone else had to do it as well what you were freddie mac, fannie mae or the lender on the corner. >> it is a slippery slope, isn't it? >> i think we are starting to see, as eric brought up the point, the government is getting involved in a lot of things. healthcare, pay. where does it end? as soon as this monday or tuesday when it comes out the pay czar is gone?

no, they will find something else for him to do and tobaccoy's point, toby talked about it is not a janitor. but the highend people are making is who generates the economy so they deserve every dollar they get. >> if there was a suit czar i think you would be doing well because you are looking stylish. brenda: i was going to let pat talk but toby took his time. you will get more time next segment. >> that never happens. brenda: all right, guys. he is back but someone here says if you bet on michael vick's comeback you will be a loser. the real comeback ready to the real comeback ready to return big

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that is helping these returning injured veterans and their families with their new lives. the greatest casualty is being forgotten. let's make sure this doesn't happen to my brave friends. thank you. thank you. thank you. thank you. brenda: predictions. >> with the introduction of the chevy volt which i will buy, i want to make money to pay for it. i'm looking at lift yum . it has to go into the batteries. chemical and minoring company of chile. it is the largest producer and chile is the second biggest country as far as lift yum. up 50% by 2011. brenda: pat? >> unfortunately, the news is a little out on this sucker. so i think it is overpriced. brenda: tobin? >> i think if you look at jetblue they have this new deal

where you pay a flat fee. once you fly jet blue you are in there. i think they will take market share. they got new gigs in new york. >> i don't like that because it costs $100 each way so six times in within month. brenda: pat, prediction? >> apartment investment management. most reits are pretty expensive. this is a very solid company, good balance sheet. no corporate level debt. 4% yield at half liquidation value. >> unfortunately with all of the foreclosures coming out there particularly in their areas i don't think they have a lot of pricing power. >> he's back, michael vick of all of the bad ideas i have ever heard, i'm not a huge giant fan but i just became one because anyone who plays the eagles has to win. i understand all of this but boycott michael vick.