will, too, when you look it up. "the factor" continues 24/7. we'll see you premium members e show. see you next time. the spin stops here because we're looking out for you. sean: tonight -- >> that is not the essential element. sean: so is the public option finished? >> good for you. i think that's incredibly hyperbolic fear but you got to voice your question. sean: and character assassination of town hall protesters begins. and cindy sheen is back. wait until you hear who she's protesting now. >> i was on his show. sean: one democrat congressman defends little old me at a town hall. and dick morris. a great american panel. a busy monday. public support for their health care plan plummeting, the white house appears to be on the run. now, the obama administration has now indicated that it may

no longer support a controversial provision in this legislation. and that is our headline tonight. "sounding the retreat." now, during an interview yesterday, health and human services secretary kathleen sebelius supports taking the public option off the table. let's take a look. >> they've been more focused on a co-op, not for profit co-op as a competitor as opposed to a straight government-run program and what's important is choice and competition and i'm convinced at the end of the day the plan will have both of those but that is not the essential element. sean: now, hours later those comments were sharply rebuked by senior white house officials who claimed the secretary simply misspoke but was this yet another trial balloon floated by the white house which has been reeling in recent months? and if so, the balloon popped a number of house democrats and got them angry earlier today, the chairman of the cocksal black caucus called her

comments deeply disturbing and said, quote, any bill without a public health insurance plan without medicare is not health reform. joining me to lay on the latest disaster facing this white house is author of "the new york times" bestseller dick morris. >> appreciate being here. sean: was it a trial balloon? >> i think it was. you had this statement and another statement by an administration official and yesterday obama sensed but gave some indication they were perhaps considering taking this off the table by stressing choice and competition. look, the fact of the matter is whether it's on the table or off the table is totally beside the point. number one, forcing the co-op to be created where none exists is like arranging a marriage where people don't love each other, don't even know each other. it will take the administration years to set up these co-ops and who knows if they'll ultimately turn power over to them or not or if they'll just be phony government affairs. the second thing is nothing in

this area can change the fundamental dynamic that i write about extensively in "catastrophe." too many patients and too few doctors. and if you're going to be slicing the medicare program, cutting -- taking 40% of the savings for the whole bill out of medicare that treats 12% of the population and forcing too few doctors to treat too many patients, you're going to have rationing. sean: before i get to the specifics of this which we have been dealing with and we're going to continue to deal with, you've got a hundred congressmen saying if you do this we're not supporting it. you have howard dean saying the same thing. kate conrad saying, hey, this is d.o.a. we don't have the votes for this. what is happening in terms of the internal debate in the different factions of the democratic party? >> i don't take the left seriously on this. i think the left is just posturing to try to stop him from making compromises. i don't think they'll ever vote against this bill. however, i do believe that the fact that the administration is

even hinting at a compromise means that these guys are on the run. just imagine it. they have 60 votes in the senate and if they're whittling down their bill. sean: democrats aren't abandoning their ship because of what is happening at town halls? >> they claim they will but they won't. first of all, there are too many of them. if you have one or two democrats, yeah. but if you have 10 votes in the senate more than the 50 you need, because they won't do 60, nobody will be hard because the word somebody else will give in first. sean: who's running the ship here? i think this is an important question, is it the white house? "the new york times" had an article maybe rahm emanuel, is it pelosi, reid, the hard left? >> i think it's rahm. and i think one of the problems is rahm is a creature of the house of representatives, not of the senate. and they're very different bodies. trent lott when he was minority leader at the house and whip and then ultimately -- he said

the house was like a flat. you'd go on a raid and do it all together. in the senate you're dealing like independent countries. rulers of independent nations. and i don't think rahm is quite use to the independence of the senators. sean: let me ask this because the dems are talking about dropping the public option. i agree with you it's very deceptive and we'll get to that in a minute. but, for example, ratting out their neighbors, the death panels they've gotten rid of. they've really pulled back -- go ahead. >> the death pan ems are not gotten rid of. there never is a panel that will say "die." sean: in provision 425 of the house bill. >> for counseling which isn't a bad idea. the point about these death panels is it you restrict the amount -- the lifesaving surgeries and you tell someone no, you can't have that bypass surgery, but i'm going to die if i don't have it, well, here's the aggressive counselor. that will happen. and whether they fund the grief

counselor or the end of life counselor or not, the rationing will take place when they tell you no, you can't have the surgery because we have to give it to a 40-year-old illegal immigrant instead. sean: the problem is, it's not just the public option, and i'm trying to explain this to anybody that will listen, dick, it's the government control over the means, the services, the supply. and let me give you an example of this. you know, there are many ways for the government to take over health care. if they control the costs, if they control what people can charge, if they control what tests you have, be it a co-op or public option, they have control. >> exactly. or if they say we're going to reimburse you less for a doctor's visit, there will be fewer of them. less for an m.r.i. test, there will be fewer of them. but one of the things we have to remember is the other side have put together $56 million of television advertising to sell this program. and opposing is just nine million. the group i'm promoting on my website, dickmorris.com, we've raised $700,000 but we can't

afford to go to four or five key states and we need money to do it, so if you value your health care system, please go to my website and please help us get the facts out about this and read "catastrophe" to arm yourself to talk to your neighbors. the elderly are tipping on this and now are opposed to it by 20 points. if it can be 30 or 35, this thing is never going to pass. sean: what do you think of the latest gallup poll conservatives outnumber liberals in all 50 states and there are 40% of americans identify themselves as conservatives, half of that number are liberal, but yet the liberals now, they've run every aspect of our government. >> sure. sean: is that about to change? do you predict or look in your crystal ball and think? >> the republicans will score huge gains in the 2010 elections. they may or may not take over but there will be huge numbers of dead democrats. what that means is -- i'm sorry, defeated democrats. sean: i was just about to bail you out. >> what that means is nothing

new would be passed. but by then we could have lost our country. if he passes health care reform, if he passes cap and trade and if he passes amnesty for illegal immigrants, you're never going to change that. sean: last point, just to put emphasis on this, the remove all of a public option is basically a marketing campaign, it is not a reality, this bill is still a government-run bill? >> that's right. the government will still set up the co-op, for five years it will run the co-op and hopefully will turn it over. the government will still specify the reimbursement rates, and the procedures to be done. sean: obama's radical agenda he said in 2003 he wants a single payor system and then in 2007 he wants to rid a moir-based system. that goal will still be pursued? >> the only thing kathleen sebelius said in her life this is not an essential element of the program but the rationing and cutting of care to the elderly that is the essential

element of the program. this program is a device to take medical care from the elderly and give it to largely immigrants. sean: good to see you. thanks for being with us. appreciate it. coming up, believe it or not, one democrat now plans to charge people admission to the town halls. we'll tell you that story in 90 seconds. later, last week you met katie abram on this program and tonight she's back with a message for everyone out there on the left, they're out there attacking her viciously, folks and all she did was speak her mind in front of arlen specter bicycle, i've missed you. gathering dust, as pollen floats through the air. but with the strength of zyrtec ® , the fastest, 24-hour allergy relief, i promise not to wait as long to go for our ride. with zyrtec ® i can love the air ™ . fresh shield containers block out air and lock in freshness. because when produce goes bad it's like throwing away money. save more food, save more money... with ziploc containers. s.c. johnson. a family company.

pothole:h no...your tire's all flat and junk. oh, did i do that? here, let me get my cellular out - call ya a wrecker. ...oh shoot...i got no phone ...cuz i'm a pothole...so....k, bye! anncr: accidents are bad. anncr: but geico's good. with emergency road service. ding!

sean: town halls have become popular over the past couple weeks and one democratic congresswoman is capitalizing on that. melissa bean is inviting everybody to her meeting as long as they rsvp weeks in advance and pay $25 to attend and you get breakfast and a chance to talk to her about health care, railroads and taxes. how much would she charge to have a discussion about maybe have a discussion about maybe her resigning? olay tone enriching body wash. for skin that shimmers.

that's a-- tiny netbook. yeah, it's-- good-looking, lightweight. generally awesome. and you could just-- go online, video-chat with my cousin. this is un-- under $200. are you some kind of-- mind reader, visionary ? no, i have them. huh. the new lightweight hp mini netbook with windows and america's largest and most-reliable 3g network built in. only 199.99 with mobile broadband plans from 39.99 i am-- speechless, envious. wanna be me right now. getting one.

sean: americans around the country have been using the town hall meetings to voice their opposition to the democrats' health care bill. katie abram is ron of those -- is one of those americans and joined us last week and after she told arlen specter why americans are so angry, it didn't take long for the liberal attack machine to go into full gear and even took a shot at us for having katie here on this program. here's jon stewart's take on that event. >> one woman in arlen specter's latest death match asked such a charge questioned and became hannity's new plumber. >> this is about dismantling this country. you have awakened sleeping giant. we are tired of this and why everybody in this room is so ticked off. i don't want this country turning into russia, turning into a socialized country.

>> ok. good for you. i think that's incredibly hyperbolic fear but you got to voice your question in a calm way to your senator. you can't argue with that. sean: katie, were you happy with the answer you got from the senator today? >> honestly, after i asked the question i was so just -- i don't know. i didn't hear half of what he said to be honest with you. [laughter] >> great. welcome to fox. can you start on monday? sean: that's not all the left wing blogosphere went in overdrive accusing katie from stupidity to racism and the blog white noise and sanity argued with a black man in the white house she's feeling like the founding fathers would be livid because they wanted white power to the end. the website crooks and liars charged -- sean: lovely. i guess the tone in washington

really changed. joining me now to respond to all this is katie herself. katie, you're laughing. now, there has been an onslaught -- this is why i wanted to have you back. you have been under fire from the second you took on senator specter. and it's been personal. how bad has it gotten for you? >> it's been interesting. the people that have supported me far outweigh those who have been sending hate mail and everything. i just have to laugh seeing this because i haven't seen it and have been trying to shield myself from it. sean: which is smart, by the way. >> ok. i'm undereducated and all these awful things. but i've had so many people say to me, you need to keep saying what you've been saying. you're speaking for me, you're speaking from your heart. the reason a lot of people don't say anything is because they're terrified this thing is going to happen to them. and honestly, bring it on. i don't care because this is too important. this is bigger than me. this is bigger than my family.

this is our country. sean: you know what's amazing, though, one person, and i was very impressed when you got up there and said i'm a stay-at-home mom and have not been politically active my entire life. but the fact is you went there, it's not an easy thing to do to speak in public. were you nervous? >> yes. sean: and so when you said to me, for example, jon stewart is making fun, part of it is because you're in the moment there and it's sort of consumes you, no? >> here's the thing, here i am and arlen specter is right next to me, you see will on tv all the time. i never met the man before and i've been thinking about this for about two weeks since i got the invitation this the mail. and for whatever reason knowing i was going to be able to hopefully ask him a question kept me up at night literally, like if i get the chance, what am i going to ask him, you know. and then here's the opportunity to do it and i got caught up in my question and then people were starting to cheer inside

the room. i didn't expect that. i was just going to ask my question, go home and paint my living room and do other things. sean: and raise my kids. >> and raise my kids. it's like i've been thrown into this national spotlight and a few times i've questioned myself whether or not to go through with this but my kids came home from them being away for a week and i hugged them and i'm like, this is the reason i have to do this. i don't want them to have -- to be paying for this for years and years. it's just not worth it. sean: what do you make of, we've watched all the politicians attacked, we see how governor palin is treated and saw how george w. bush is treated but this is the first time american citizens are being attacked by a party. are you part of a mob, are you a political terrorist? do you like tim mcveigh? >> no. sean: any sympathies towards the nazi party? >> no. sean: no racist views in your life? >> no. sean: what do you think when prominent democrats have been making these charges? >> i think it's ridiculous. i heard nancy pelosi saying

about we're a mob and swastikas and all that stuff. i'm sorry. i'm a stay-at-home mom and take care of my kids and doing what i'm supposed to be doing. and you've got these people in charge of the country calling the people of this country awful names, awful names. my original question to arlen specter was i want you to denounce what nancy pelosi has said about the people in this country. it'sry kick luss. sean: as you for example, we're trying to spend a lot of time on this program to inform the -- it's ridiculous. sean: as for example we're trying to spend a lot of time informing the people. this is socialism. the government is taking over our banks and is attempting to take over health care and our financial institutions and dictating pay and spending worse than drunken sailors. you're seeing this going on, tell me from your heart and perspective what you think -- why do you think the country is heading down the wrong road? >> i think the problem is this, benjamin franklin had said that

compassion can be counterproductive. and i'm a compassionate person. you know, we give money to different charities, i volunteer at church, and what can happen is compassion -- he said that compassion that allows a drunk to increase his drunkenness is counterproductive, compassion that allows weakness and dependence is counterproductive. and all these things the government has been doing over the years, completely counterproductive. and it's taking the drive out of people. i mean, if you have two hot dog stands, my friend karen told me this, you have two hot dog stands, a $2 hot dog here and a free hot dog line over here, i'm going to the free hot dog line. >> i'm going to the $2 hot dog line so i don't have to wait. it's easy and don't blame the american people to use these programs because they're there but when another one is implemented, once the government puts their fingers in everything, you can't take that out.

sean: i want to tell you, i think the reason you've been under fire is because what you said to arlen specter resonated and it was very effective. so congrats. >> thank you. sean: welcome, baptism by fire, welcome to the public arena and we appreciate you being here. thanks for coming back. >> thanks for having me. sean: cindy sheehan has set her sights on a new target and you won't believe who she plans to protest next and an american politician is joioioioioioinioii

wó

sean: tonight in "hannity's america" the train wreck that is the cash for clunkers program continues. the program may have triggered an uptick in auto sales but also has taken its toll on many car dealer's budgets.

according to "the milwaukee journal sentinel," some dealers have dished out millions in rebates and have yet to be paid back by the government. one dealer in wisconsin said, quote, they roled out the program and told us we'd get paid in 10 days. it's been three weeks. i guess this is the kind of efficiency we can expect if the government takes over the u.s. health care system. and tonight's "waste 101 update" comes to you courtesy of the economic stimulus. it's been six months since congress passed the billion dollar pork bill and the verdict is in. the public thinks it has been a colossal failure, according to the latest gallup poll. asked where the stimulus made the economy better, had no effect or made it worse, 57% think the stimulus has either had no affect or in fact made it worse. the government has no confidence they're spending their money efficiently. a whopping 98% of poll

respondents said they were somewhat worried money from the economic stimulus plan is being wasted. that's a ringing endorsement. good work, democrats. speaking of those who disagree with what this administration is doing, you can add one more critic to this list. it's one you probably never expected. remember anti-war activist cindy sheehan who spent all that time protesting outside of president bush's ranch in crawford, texas? she's setting out to protest president obama's policies at martha's vineyard where the president plans to vacation in his multimillion dollar waterfront mansion starting early next week. she's upset she hasn't pulled us out of the wars in iraq, afghanistan and apparently pakistan. she was bolted to fame by the media when she became an outspoken critic of president bush's policies in iraq and afghanistan. remember the major networks, they're tirelessly out there covering her each and every day and each and every protest? byron work of the washington examiner wonders if the media will pay as much attention next

week when she protests a different president. i'll be looking for the big headlines but won't be holding my breath. >> and now it's time for "great moments in liberal foreign policy." sean: we have a problem. remember in april when president obama shook hands and exchanged pleasantries with venezuelan dictator hugo chavez? a few short months after that love fest it appears their relationship is now on the rocks. now chavez slammed president obama and his latin american policies in a television interview yesterday. among other things the dictator expressed outrage over a new military agreement between the u.s. and colombia and said, quote, president obama is lost in the andromeda nebula, he lost his bearings and doesn't get it. looks like the president's charm offensive didn't go over this dictator after all. better luck with mahmoud ahmadinejad. and hannity's america continue

with an update on former congressman tom delay and wait ñ

applebee's 2 for $20! real food at the right price! this is the primo stuff. one appetizer and two premium entrees. just twenty bucks-every day. genuine food. generous portions. genius price. 2 for $20! only at applebee's. stamp it in and for a whole week... it cleans and freshens. toilet cleaning gel. the freshest way to keep a toilet clean. see sunday's paper and save a dollar... on scrubbing bubbles toilet cleaning gel. s.c. johnson, a family company. sean: watch out on the dance floor, here comes tom delay, the former house majority leader has confirmed he'll be joining the cast of "dancing with the stars" and be competing against celebrities like donnie osmond, michael irvin and supermodel kathy ireland. he's been training all summer for the show and lost 12 pounds.

who need

assistance getting around their homes. there is a medicare benefit that may qualify you for a new power chair or scooter at little or no cost to you. imagine... one scooter or power chair that could improve your mobility and your life. one medicare benefit that, with private insurance, may entitle you to pay little to nothing to own it. one company that can make it all happen ... your power chair will be paid in full. the scooter store. hi i'm doug harrison. we're experts at getting you the power chair or scooter you need. in fact, if we qualify you for medicare reimbursement and medicare denies your claim, we'll give you your new power chair or scooter free. i didn't pay a penny out of pocket for my power chair. with help from the scooter store, medicare and my insurance covered it all. call the scooter store for free information today.

sean: health care reform may just be the new third rail in american politics. brand-new polls are showing the president's push for government-run health care may be responsible for the end of obama mania. now today's rasmussen daily tracking poll shows the anointed one's disapproval rating is now higher than his approval rating. on health care, an overwhelming majority of those polled say not passing health care reform would be better than passing the democrats' plan. joining us to help us sort through all this, columnist, on national review, andy will be filling in for the great rush limbaugh. for people who don't know that microphone is really gold. >> as you well know, it is goal p--- it is gold. sean: in my first five minutes the microphone fell to the

ground, oh, no, my career is over. >> i'll try not to do that. sean: you do a great job. let's talk a little bit about the polls. the president's approval rating, every reputable poll shows he's losing ground and health care is losing ground. what's your analysis? >> his personal rating is coming down to meet the unpopularity of his policies. basically it's been a few weeks since "newsweek" said he was like a god. and the more he connects with the policies the more he's a 50-50% like his predecessor, and i think most people, a lot of people really believe he was a post partisan centrist, pragmatic, physically conservative figure that he campaigned as. and as you and a few others pointed out, he's not, the extreme left wing is where he's lived all his life and has a transformtive agenda people don't want. sean: we discussed this with

dick morris, his floating this trial balloon about eliminating the public option which i argue is still going to be government run and they'll still control costs and ration. what do you make of what they did? >> i agree with you. i think this is kind of a fame. he needs to pass something and get across the river and burn the bridge because once you do, it won't be possible to go back. so what he has to do is create the conditions for embryo government health care because that's the fastest way to a permanent left of center political culture. that's true in canada and true in europe. to guarantee a permanent left of center political culture you need some form of governmental health care through. sean: this is their holy grail of left. they've put a lot of political capital on this. >> right. sean: the american people don't want it by a pretty large margin. >> exactly. sean: are they going to try to force it down america's throat? >> they've had to back off but think they will.

sarah palin got a lot of schlicht for her health care program. but it's been announced the budget deficit is being cut back by reducing elective surgeries. that what means is you can elect to have the surgery but the government won't elect to give it to you. that's what government health care, government bureaucrats in siding themselves between you and the doctor is where it is. sean: 57% don't see the stimulus working and was on the front page of "usa today" in today's edition. the government can't run cash for clunkers. >> no. sean: medicare is bankrupt and social security is bankrupt. why is there any american which has any confidence they can run the health care industry? >> the little bit that do, this h5n1 flu vaccine they were to have 20 million shots ready by the fall and now it's only 40

million. think of anything you'd like, would you want it run by the government? would you like to go on vacation to a government run hotel? no, you wouldn't. they have those in the eastern block. nobody wants government running anything that's important to them. sean: look at the latest, not only 57% don't think the stimulus is working here. we have home prices declining -- these are the latest headlines as it relates to the economy, retail sales are down, revenue to the government is down, last week we announced the government in one year has quadrupled the deficit, foreclosures are up, the cost of the government day went to august 12 this year which is nearly 2/3 of the year we work for the government and they want to buy g-5's for politicians. >> which is disgusting and really driving a lot of the anger out there. people like arlen specter and nancy pelosi are representatives and not our rulers and they've forgotten that. and that's what's driving a lot of this anger. you're right, this is all completely wasted.

and that's why his approval rating has fallen because people are saying no matter how cool he is, if your home is falling in value, if your job is in jeopardy, if your health care is in jeopardy, what good is it to have a supercool president? it's not enough. >> what do you make of -- we just had katy abram on the program, what do you make of the attacks against american citizens, the mobsters, the tim mcveighs, the nazi, why would the democrats do that? >> i think they have to, they effectively do it with individuals and did it with joe the plumber and sarah palin. whether it's talking complete nonsense is it you think back a couple years to the anti-globalization summits, i went to the summit of americas, all these people come in, these youthful activists come in and trash the town, they throw bricks through mcdonald's and smash the street windows and everybody says oh, well, that's just the idealism, left wing

idealism, didn't matter how much you trash and destroy in the name of left wing idealism. these are ordinary citizens. and what's interesting is they aren't republican or right wing and a lot are seniors who are concerned about what will happen to medicare. they're not agents of dark forces. they're ordinary citizens condition fronting representatives who have forgotten they are citizen legislators and not the gulf stream rulers. sean: we forget the term "public servant." they are supposed to be public servants. here's my final question for you. they may be repositioning where they are, i don't believe they've given up their ultimate goal, which is the elimination of the employee benefit system, a single payor system, obama is on record saying he wants. where does it end up? do they now go back to the drawing board and come up with new tabbing points, do they go through incrementalism, what do you think?

>> they want an embryo plan that contains within it the seeds for a government health care system. sean: the co-ops. but is it any different than the so-called public option? >> i don't think so. because in the end if you have a government perspective on health care, it leads to rationing. the thing about a death panel isn't that it's a panel that actually says we're denying you this treatment, it's that the whole system is in fact a kind of death panel because it has to make judgments about letting mr. smith live and mr. jones live. it's the nationalization of your body. they have the -- the government says we have the right to say whether you can have your hip replaced. sean: they have the right to decide that and ration care and they dictate the price and supply and they run competition out of the market. >> that's right. it's happened everywhere. sean: you'll be filling in for rush? >> yep. sean: we'll be listening. time to check in with greta for a sneak peek on what's coming up on "the record" in 20 short minutes.

greta: you think the town halls are rough, wait until you see texas. it's hot tonight and there will be blood on the floor. senator kay bailey hutchinson is challenging perry for office. there will be blood on the floor. plus, happy anniversary to you. sean: to who? greta: to you. sean: my anniversary? greta: six months. sean: of what? greta: you'll have to stick around. sean: i've been married 17 years, i've been -- i got it. let not your heart be troubled. the great american panel straight ahead.

@

sean: tonight on our "great american panel" she's the daughter of a good friend of

ours, fox news contributor susan estridge author of "hancock park." isabel kaplan is here and "usa today" columnist, radical left winger bob beckel is back and the founder of the faith and freedom coalition, ralph freeder is here. i'm not going to let beckel start. >> what else is new. sean: what was the trial balloon this weekend about the public option, what's your take on it and what do you think of the reaction, 100 congressmen on the left say no way, howard dean says no way, trial balloon pulled away. how do you analyze it? >> they're trying to salvage a total disaster and it's been a com oddy of errors. gold plated, gold plated, disciplined, on message. they made a series of miscalculations. obama outsourced the policy to

waxman, pelosi, reid, kennedy, dodd and set artificial deadlines that couldn't be met and made him look weak when they weren't and said, "i've got to have a bill by the august recess." that bombed. let me tell you how weak position he is on, he's caving on one of the central tenets of his health care policy issue and not getting a single republican vote and try to keep his own party together. sean: i think there's truth to that but i'm a little more cynical than you. >> i can't imagine that. sean: i think the cooperative plan is basically the same thing with a new packaging. >> come on. sean: this is still going to be government run health care. >> they can try, you're right. >> the liberal side of this town for a second. waving the white flag of surrender is something new. hannity used that one five years ago on the war against me. sean: you got very angry. >> i did but i'm not going to be denied and am in a good mood and trying to figure out what greta was talking about, six

months. the fact of the matter is at this very desk two months ago i told you we'll end up with cooperatives, cooperatives were started in 1929, a lot of them worked very well. they're not going to be some cover for some public plan and here's where you're both dead wrong. the health care bill passed, the democrats cannot afford to have it passed and here's my secret it will include torte reform and the republicans won't sit back and be against it and i will repeat barack obama is the greatest president since franklin roosevelt. sean: you're out of your mind. >> i know, you keep saying that. sean: government run health care is not just the public option but government control over the means, the services, the pricing and the supply. and that's where we get into the specificity of whatever this final will bill will be, if they control that, this is government run health care. >> this isn't about a government run health care. it's about providing an option for the people who have no means of health care at the current time and i think the bill is absolutely not dead.

and nancy pelosi came out again today saying she's in firm support of having a public option and howard dean -- sean: here's the problem, if the government says, for example, if they're going to manage us, who is covered who is not covered, who gets to charge what and who gets to get what care, it's still government run. >> sean, the co-op they're talking about will be heavily subsidized by the federal government and initial subsidy of $3 million and that's just the tip of the iceberg because they're always wrong on their projections. remember the public option, the government run plan masqueradesing a co-op will be subsidized with our tax dollars and that will lead to substandard care across the board and be a major problem. >> you're both in right-wing la-la land obviously. the only way -- can i say something here for a second? thank you very much. you are trying like you were last time you defeated health

care reform which was an important thing and a lot of people have lost their health insurance and died since then, i might add. are trying to make it into government run, nothing run by portability and nothing wrong if you lose your insurance and you can -- they can't keep you out because of preexisting conditions. sean: i don't have a problem with those laws. >> that's what's exactly in this bill. you support these big, bad insurance companies that drop people from the rolls and let people die. sean: these are the latest talking points but you know what, bob -- isabel, this is the same government that can't run cash for clunkers and the same government that bankrupt the social security and medicare. the public option is going to destroy even by the c.b.o. estimate will destroy private insurance and wait a minute, the c.b.o., it means tens of millions will be forced in the government system. >> this is making it more competitive and more cost efficient. sean: how is it more competitive if the c.b.o. analyzes and says it will force

people out of the snl. >> we finally get rid of bad banks and -- sean: you are worried about the conservatives? >> the federal government won't run people's health care. you want people to believe that because your talking points, from your pal frank lutz who is over everybody. and you say the government is taking over and will be death pans and -- >> it's not about the government taking over at all but about providing an option and whether that be through government subsidized meebs for people without access to health care. sean: why do you have so much faith in the government when they can't run cash for clunkers? >> there's a lot of success happening. >> can we make this announcement, there are two liberals on this panel, two. it's usually 3-1. >> the success that's happening is this a fayed stimulus plan when was passed obama said would lead to four million new jobs. >> how do you know it's failed? sean: he said unemployment wouldn't go above 8% by his own

-- we've got to break. more with our great, great my mother made the best toffee in the world. it's delicious. so now we've turned her toffee into a business. my goal was to take an idea and make it happen. i'm janet long and i formed my toffee company through legalzoom. i never really thought i would make money doing what i love. robert shapiro: we created legalzoom to help people start their business and launch their dreams. go to legalzoom.com today and make your business dream a reality. at legalzoom.com we put the law on your side.

sean: and we continue now with our great, great american panel. the congressman from atlanta, one of the few democrats who actually did not run away from his constituents and said this about me and fox news. >> i watch fox news. i go on fox news every time they invite me. you have got juan williams on fox news. sean hannity. sean hannity started right here in atlanta.

i was on his show. i have been on all of their shows. sean: he is invited back all of the time. that is one congressman who did not go into hiding because he was afraid of facing his constituents. >> to goç out and "g grass-roos citizens, stay at home moms, senior citizens, who are concerned about $500 and unspecified medicare cuts and losing their health insurance, and they were called un-american and evil -- to go and take concerned citizens. they have paid the ultimate price and board the ultimate freedom that we can speak of freely. -- borne the ultimate freedom that we can speak freely. >> i gives got credit for saying something nice to you, i would not go back to your democratic caucus if i were you -- i give

scott credit. you used to do it, and you know it as well as i.d. -- -- as well as i do. sean: do you think that she is a monster? >> she is a very nice lady. -- a mobster. once in awhile, you are a nice guy. the point is that these guys a walked around the meetings that i went to with a little talking points from some white ring group to make their points -- -- from someright-wi -- from some right-wing group. sean: he promised if we pass the stimulus, unemployment would not go above 8%, and now, they do not trust him. they do not believe him.

>> our economy is in a tailspin. sean: çwhoaç, whoa. we are using his standard. now, it is 9.5%. >> he was dealt a tough car. >> sean thinks -- by the way, your book is terrific. everybody ought to buy it. they think that the germans should surrendered after they landed at normandy. -- should have surrendered after they landed at normandy. he got his number from the budget office. >> 70% of the american people now say that the remainder of the stimulus money, which, by the way, not spend is 89%, he is the problem for obama. that was the republican alternative that they defeated.

there is going to be two alternatives. one is giving money back to the taxpayers, and the other is to waste it. >> republicans should never control congress for the next two decades. many think they are conservatives, but the conservatives are being captured by right wingers. sean: chris dodd is going to lose. harry reid -- ok. bob macdonald is going to be the new governor of virginia. >> that when i will give you. sean: governor paterson is out in new york. he is done. >> we have a $3.5000 bet. sean: we are done. -- we have 83 hoa $3500 bet. >> we were in a tailspin. >> we were in a tailspin.