across his face. i was corrected. that is going to do it for us. we will see you tomorrow. trace: exactly 1:00 in the east. jamiehe was convicted of murderg 270 people, most of them americans in the worst terrorist crime in the history of the united kingdom. now, the pan am 103 bomber is a free man. a scottish court released him on grounds of compassion because he has terminal cancer this is him boarding a plane a few hours ago in scotland. he could land in libya sometime during this newscast. he served eight years. exactly 3124 days in prison. that is 11 and a half days for

each of his victims. the families of those victims who are outraged that he can now enjoy the compassion that their relatives never got. >> you have to live with the fact that he was blown out of the air. that never leaves you. that is what bothers me on this compassionate release process. where is the compassionate release for my brother or the families of these victims? we have it all convoluted and we are talking about an individual who massacred 270 people so he can have his family's around him? we did not have that opportunity. trace: at this moment, we are awaiting his arrival in libya. in the meantime, let's get live to amy kellogg. why the difference of opinion between the united states and the u.k. on the release of this man? >> well, this was such a massive terrorist attack for americans before september 11. this was probably the biggest

corporate for the american people. you listen to those comments from the family members. many of them are coming home for the holidays. it was too much to bear for the family members of the victims and for much of the general public in the united states. here in the u.k., there are a couple of things going on. first of all, it was a scottish court that made the decision on compassionate grounds. he only has a few months to live. he is dying from prostate cancer. the typically do that in scotland where people have light sentences, but are dying. some people believe that he was not actually responsible for this crime and he was scapegoating. maybe libya was not even behind this crime. it could have been some other players. therefore, they're skeptical of the conviction. trace: thank you there is breaking news coming out of the white house.

a lot of people believe that he is a conservative talk-show host, but it is not true. he voted for barack obama. he supports abortion rights. the question here is -- are we going to take this or are we going to go to major garrett? >> every time i have been on your show, we have had a great time. i'm looking forward to being on again. i think that there are some legitimate disagreements to be had about health care and there is a lot of misinformation out there. >> i am all about having the dialogue. i think they will probably play in the room those calls. >> if i cannot hear the first one, i will put the ear piece on. my understanding is that we will

do about 10 minutes on the front anend -- that is fine. it is your show. >> it is a surreal environment for a guy like me to be sitting here. trace: while they're getting the chitchat going, i want to bring in major garrett. what is going to happen is they will broadcast this directly. he is going to ask the president about health care. he is going to be tough, but direct. he is not going to go off message on this thing. the question is, is this the president's way to engage the conservative media by going to a friendly enemy, if you will? >> he has said himself, he is not a conservative. i think we could rule that out. he is very popular in philadelphia. he got a nationally syndicated

radio talk show. it is not nearly as large as some of the more well-known conservative talk-show hosts. he has created a following for himself in philadelphia. more accurately, what the president is trying to do is go to someone who is trying to get himself into the game nationally in radio and is possibly a bit more cautious than some of the more well-established conservative talk-show hosts might be. he had a conference call yesterday with religious leaders from the progress of religious left. the president is trying to amplify his message, but with less threatening audiences and less threatening hosts then he would find, at least right now. >> what is the risk of giving conflicting messages? it seems like the president is having this particular

interview with this particular radio talk-show host at the white house. maybe or maybe not he will talk about the public option. in the meantime, there is a lot of talk about what the democrats are planning, possibly trying to change the rules in order to get certain parts of a health care reform plan potentially nationalize health care by changing the rules. the question is, with this talk- show host, will we get any straight answers on exactly what president wants, what message he is sending, and is he sending consistent messages? the american public has spoken. they want what they have now. >> the president is facing a couple of problems. >> the more it talks about health care reform, the worse the polling data gets. there are a few plants in the

house. there are some developing plants in the senate, but there is no central white house plan. many dead -- many democrats say that is a problem. it will be hard to message on this in an effective way. i talked to a democrat from new york. generally democrats have not done a good job explaining what they're trying to accomplish >> what about the nuclear option? is that on the table? >> democrats are looking at various ways in the senate, if they have to, to use 51 votes as opposed to the filibuster threshold. if they were to do that, it would be unprecedented to use a rule change majority to push it through. it has never happened before. it would be a legislative gambit with tremendous risks for the democrats. they have begun to send signals, if they cannot do it with the normal way, they might go the 51 vote nez way.

>> did you want to listen in? >> the first question was, did kathleen sebelius misspeak when she was talking about the public option this weekend. >> set up a system similar to what congress has where you could buy into a bigger pool, get better rates, have protections around you. you would be buying that insurance from private insurers, but one of the options we talked about was the public option where there would not be a profit motive involved. that public option would give you affordable health insurance. we think that is a good idea. we have not said that is the only aspect of health insurance. what she essentially said was that all these other insurance reforms are just as important as the public option. the press got a little excited and some people on the left got a little bit excited about this. our position has not changed.

we think the key is cost control, competition, and good quality options. if we can achieve that, that is the end we are seeking. we can have some good arguments about the best way to do that. >> there is a mind-set among many people in my audience to say that the endgame, it is all about single payer. there is a perception out there that you want to go all the way. can you address that mindset? >> i absolutely can. the intervention in the banks was not started by me. it was started by a conservative republican administration, and rightly so. our banks were on the verge of meltdown. we said, let's put in place and financial regulations to make sure that this does not happen again. the auto interventions were not started by me.

they were started by a conservative republican administration. the only thing we did was whether writing a blank check, we said, if you are going to get any more taxpayer money, you have to be accountable. they went through a record bankruptcy general motors is actually hiring people back. i know that there's this perception that somehow we have engaged in these extraordinary interventions. part of it had to do with the worst financial crisis in history. both auto bailout and the bank bailout were started under a previous conservative republican administration indicates the fact that this was not ideological. this was a matter of necessity. as far as health care goes, i have consistently said i would like the private marketplace to be handling this without any government intervention. the problem is, it is not working. we're seeing about 14,000 people lose their health care every single day. we're seeing health care inflation go up about twice as

fast as regular inflation. businesses are being crippled by it. small businesses have almost no access to the marketplace because they have no leverage with insurance companies. let's keep the private system intact, but let's make sure that people who right now cannot get health insurance, they are able to buy into the market. to buy into the market. >> i would like to drive an mdx and an f-150. each of them are saying that cash for clunkers has been a great idea and a wonderful initiative and they have closed a lot of deals, but the payments

are late. i'm hearing from a number of people saying, if the federal government cannot get it together, i do not really trust my health care to the federal government. >> let me address cash for clunkers. it has been successful beyond anybody's imagination. we are now slightly victims of success because the thing happened so quickly, there was so much more demand than anyone expected, dealers were overwhelmed with applications. this program has only been going on for a few weeks. we have hired three times as many people to process this stuff. there has not been extraordinary delays on the government's part. this is a good news story. they are seeing sales that they have not seen in years. they will get their money, but

we have to process it properly because of we were careless about it and sending out checks where applications were incomplete, we would be breaking the law because there are statutes set up in terms of how this is supposed to go and secondly, there would probably be some story -- you would be asking about scandals where there were a whole lot of checks being wasted going to people who had not bought cars. i think this is a high cost problem, but we're selling too many cars too quickly. there is some backlog in the application process. it is getting fixed. >> ernie is a listener of mine. go ahead for the president of united states. >> mr. president -- >> how are you? >> i am good. i understand you said that the federal health-care plan for government employees is a pretty good plan.

>> hideous. >> congress has voted not to join the public plan once it passes because they want to keep their federal plan. >would you be willing to either urge congress to have them join the public plan or would you be willing to urge congress to somehow open up the federal health plan to all americans? >> i hear this all the time. >> it is a great question. first of all, understand that currently, federal employees have a very good health care plan because they are able to leverage the insurance companies. there are so many members of the federal work force that they can get the best rates possible for any insurance company that wants to do business with the federal government. premiums are lower and it is a better deal overall. the same concept is what we're trying to do in setting up

health insurance exchange. essentially, it would be a marketplace where people who currently do not have health insurance could pool their numbers so that they have leverage or the insurance companies and they could go on a web site and look at the various options that are being offered and choose the best one for their families. we are trying to duplicate what exists for federal employees -- we want to make that available to everybody else. what we have said is, let's make a public auction one choice of many choices that are available to people who are joining the exchange. i see nothing wrong with potentially having that public option as one option for federal employees as well. the important thing i have to make absolutely clear, no one would be obligated to choose the public option. if you went on that website and

said blue cross blue shield is offering a better deal and i would rather choose that plant and the public plan, you would be perfectly free to do so. nobody would be saying you are obligated to go into a public plan. >> they would love it if you would stand up and say whatever it is we're creating, a co-op, a public option, one of their name might be ascribed to it, we will live with exactly these parameters. >> i think it would make perfect sense for us to make the public option available to federal employees as well. keep in mind, it would just be a choice. >> let me keep moving. tracey listens in indianapolis. your question for the president? >> thank you for taking my call. until i heard you say that a private auction is just a sliver of your health care proposal, i

thought that was [unintelligible] could you list five or six bullet points of what legislation must include for you to sign it? must include a public option? >> i would be happy to. first of all, you mentioned illegal immigrants. this has been an example of pure misinformation out there. none of the bills that have been voted on in congress and none of the proposals coming out of the white house propose giving coverage to illegal immigrants. none of them. that has never been on the table. everyone was listening out there, when you start hearing that somehow this is all designed to provide health insurance to illegal immigrants, that is simply not true. >> what is their fate? there is a 1986 law that says that he shot in an emergency room, you have to be treated.

>> that will continue because we do not want a situation in which some child, even if they're an illegal immigrant shows up with tuberculosis and no one is giving them treatment and they go back to the playground and play next to our kids. there is a basic standard of decency where if someone is in a life or death situation or a severe illness, we are going to provide them emergency care. no one has talked about providing health insurance to illegal immigrants. you had a good point about, what are the bullet points that i want. number one, it has to be deficit neutral. this has to be paid for. in the past, some of the health- care plans we have put forward have not been paid for. a good example of this was the prescription drug benefits for seniors. we never actually figured out how to pay for it. that went directly into the

deficit. we cannot afford to do that. it has to bend the cost curve. we have got to create a plan that experts credibly say will reduce health care inflation. if all we're doing is adding more people, but we are not controlling costs, that will blow up the deficit in the long term. it will blow up the burdens on individual families and businesses. number three, we have got to have the insurance reforms i have talked about for people who already have health insurance. that means making sure you could get health insurance even if you have a pre-existing condition, making sure that you are not burdened by lifetime caps. making sure that insurance companies cannot drop you just is you get sick of your older, or you are not as healthy. making sure that there are basic insurance protections, that is

very important. i want to make sure that we have a health exchange that is similar to what members of congress have, where you will have a set of options if you are an individual and have trouble getting health insurance right now. you can look at a bunch of options. we have to make it affordable for middle-class families. part of the plan has to be that if you cannot afford a market- based premium, we're giving you a bit of help and you are able to get health insurance. choice, competition, reducing costs -- those are the things that i want to see accomplished in this health reform bill. >> where does personal responsibility factor into all of this? there was a front-page story recently that talked about obesity being the single most significant factor -- how about rewarding those people who get on the stairmaster every day? >> you are already starting to

see this happening among a lot of private companies. safeway is a company that has done a great job in helping to encourage its please to get them fit. they say, you were going to save a certain amount on insurance premiums. you will see that if you are taking steps to take care of yourself. creating incentives like that for prevention, wellness, creating cash incentives where it shows up, they're saving money on their health insurance because of it. that is something that should be part of it. >> joseph, go ahead for the president of the united states. >> our you? >> i am scared out of my mind talking to you. it feels like the knees are buckling a little bit.

you have overwhelming majorities in both houses. people are not willing to compromise with. >> i guarantee you, we are going to get healthcare reform done. i know that there are a lot of people out there who have been hand wringing and people in the press are following every little twist and turn of the legislative process. passing a big bill like this is always messy. fdr was called a socialist when he passed show -- social security. this is the process that we go

through. understandably, the american people have a long tradition of being suspicious of government. until the government actually does something that helps them and then they do not want anybody messing with whatever gets set up. i'm confident that we will get it done. as far as negotiations with republicans, my attitude has always been, let's see if we can get this done with some consensus. i would love to have more republicans engaged and involved in this process. i think early on, a decision was made by republican leadership that said, let's not give them a victory. maybe we can have a replay of 1994. i think there are some people were taking a page out of the playbook. this should not be a political issue. this is an issue for the american people.

olympia snowe has been dedicated on this. chuck grassley and others have been meeting with the senate finance committee. i want to give them a chance to work through these processes. we're happy to make sensible compromises. what we're not willing to do is give up on the core principle that americans do not have health insurance should get it. we have got to reduce health- care inflation so that everybody can keep the health care that they have. that will be my priority. i think we can get it done. >> today, the scots released the lockerby bomber. your take on this? a lot of people are very offended over a perceived lack of justice. >> we have been in contact with the scottish government, indicating that we objected to this. we thought it was a mistake.

he should be under house arrest. we have been in contact with the families and the pan am victims. we indicated to them that we do not think this was appropriate. >> in each of our prior conversations, i spoke with you extensively about the need for closure. we agreed relative to osama bin laden. things you said during the campaign played a critical role in my personal decision. i would be derelict if i did not say, where are we? we had a major victory recently with the number one individual for the taliban, but pertaining to bid lot and, where is it? >> we are continuing to ramp up

the pressure in afghanistan. we had what appears to be a successful election in afghanistan, despite the taliban's effort to disrupt it. we have the general over there and more troops who are putting pressure on the eastern and southern portions of afghanistan. on the other hand, you have the pakistani army fighting in a very aggressive way. that is how we took out the top taliban leader in pakistan, who was also one of osama bin laden's important allies. we're squeezing them on both sides. we are eliminating their allies. it is making it more difficult for them to communicate. it is more difficult for them to operate safe havens. over time what we hope to do is to flush them out. we're going to continue to apply pressure to them. it is at great cost.

i have to sign letters to family members who have fallen to and allot more are falling in afghanistan and in iraq. as a consequence, we have to make sure that we are really focused on finishing the job in afghanistan. it will take some time. >> susan listens to wwor news radio. go ahead for the president of the united states. >> thank you very much, mr. president, for talking to us directly about this important issue. we all want reform. i guess it is a matter of what the solution is. a lot of us feel that the federal government is not equipped to be getting involved in delivering health care services. there is concern that most of the money will actually go, instead of taking care of people, it will go to the cost

of administering a huge sum. why not do something like to give incentives to the state? we already have free health care for people who cannot afford it in new york. it is not free. we all know that we're going to be paying for it. we want to have our own health care decisions locally. we cannot want the federal government making those decisions. >> is there a state solution here, mr. president? >> first of all, i think it is important to understand that part of the health reform proposal that we have put forth would involve the states. the states in some cases would be empowered to expand medicaid

to cover more people the same way that they have been able to cover more children under the children's health insurance program. a sizable portion would be getting their insurance through the states. that is how the current medicaid program allows states to cover more people. nobody is talking about the government administering all of health care. what we're talking about here is a public option that people could sign up for, but in that situation, they would have to operate like any private insurer. they would have to be collecting premiums and so forth. the track record for government administering health care is surprisingly good. medicare, a government program, has much lower administrative costs and private insurers do. part of it is because either someone is qualified or they are not. signing them up is a lot more automatic.

that points to one of the big problems that we have. in private insurance, huge amounts of insurance companies are spending a lot of money and a lot of effort just trying to cherry pick people who are healthy and sign them up and eliminate people who are sick. part of what we want to do here is just reform the system so insurance companies are operating more fairly to all people. if you are young, it is easier to get health insurance these days. the tough population are people who are from 50 to 64. maybe they just got laid off. maybe they are self-employed. we want to make sure there is a market for them. the last point that i would make is that you mentioned the fact and allot of people opt out. one of the things that we would do is to say if you want, you can stay on your health insurance up until the age of 26. that would cover a lot of young

people who fall in that gap. their first job is not necessarily offer them insurance. it gives them a way of having coverage until they get that job that has a little bit more security. >> you are needed across town. i appreciate the privilege of coming to the white house. >> i want to thank all of your listeners. terrific questions. there is a great dialogue that takes place on this show. i hope you can continue that dialogue in the same spirit. trace: that is a radio talk-show interview from philadelphia. it was broadcast live out of the white house. i want to bring in major garrett for a little bit of analysis on this. how unusual is something like this, an interview coming out of the white house? what were the important questions asked of the president? >> it is very unusual. it has never happened before

with this president. the questions were pretty good. one caller asked, can you exactly explain to the american public wants -- what must be in this bill? not all of that was the public option. the president said that we need a health care exchange in which there is some option for the public to obtain government health care. that is as close as he has in saying that there must be public option. there are many democrats, at least in the senate, who have talked about a cooperative approach to this health insurance exchanges that would not be the government-financed public auction. the president continues to give himself maximum legislative maneuvering room on this question. the president tried to reassure skeptical listeners on this program that the federal

government is going to be the lead driver administratively of how health care will be delivered, how costs will be set -- the practical reality is what medicare and medicaid, the federal government is already quite involved in that process. they're concerned about government encroaching on what is currently private insurance for them. the debate continues. jamie: pa perhaps that is an important point, the government the question was asked by someone who was listening about the cash for clunkers program. he even said the automotive industry is retiring again for the first time. they cannot get the payments from dealers that they need to stay in business under the cash for clunkers program. it is much smaller in magnitude and health care of this country, but nevertheless, was that a

fair comparison to save the government cannot run this program, should we be concerned about you running our health care? the president cited medicare as an example of a well-run program. >> he is also seeking some $600 billion in savings from medicare over 10 years. he says it is being paid out for things that should not be paid for. obviously, the president and some senior groups that say that there is too much financial money being spent by medicare. one other point. the president said cash for clunkers took a time to create. in the legislation currently before the house, the approach to public health care involving the government would not begin until 2013. a four-year ramp up for this

program. why? democrats say that it takes a good long time to get the federal government ramped up for a program of this size. if it is not going to be bureaucratically running things, some might wonder why it takes three years to set it up in the first place. that is a question that is going to be debated in congress. we were talking about a potential rule change dealing with reconciliation in the senate. that has never been done for health care. has been done on tax issues and budget issues, more times by republicans and democrats. i just want to make sure that is stated as clearly as i can. trace: it is a fair point. thank you. on that point, let's bring in the panel.

it has been the -- has been done 19 times in the past, the nuclear option. it has never been done in health care. they are talking -- you heard the president say, we want the republicans to join in, but if they do not, something is going to get done. it looks like the democrats are going to want to go this alone. >> a majority of american people look at any poll and across the board, they say that people like their health care and they do not want the democrats' plan. why would this be rammed through in a very unique legislative procedure when a majority of americans do not favor this? >trace: the democrats are fighting among themselves. some people are saying that this public option is do-or-die.

>> the plan that comes out of it is certainly not going to be to anyone's liking in the way that we could get a plan through if republicans played along. i think the republicans are showing their true colors. they have no interest in joining on this plan, whether chuck grassley gets everything they want. they're planning on writing this into the next election. trace: isn't the point of all of this that the american people are not on board? when you look at the polls, they have been very clear. isn't the point of all of is that the american people are not on board with this and the democrats are saying, we know what is best and we shall know what we -- >> the obama administration has done a horrible job of selling this to the american people. >> if you pass a plan without republicans, he will have a plan that most americans will not like. >> at the could would be a less

powerful plant and if we manage to get through -- trace: the american people just do not get it. [yammer] >> it is about putting more choice in the marketplace. the obama administration has done a terrible job. trace: american people are concerned about government intrusion. if the democrats keep telling them the reason they do not like it is the reason they're not getting it -- >> this is not about cost control. i am surprised that the radio host did not follow up to the question, barack obama said that he wanted this to be deficit neutral. the democrats' plan will add to under $34 billion to the deficit. how're you going to pay for that? is he going to cover national defense? >> we have a hidden tax every

day on american businesses and all americans to cover the cost of people who do not have insurance. we are paying the price right now in an unfair way. this is a way to spread the cost out and make it far more efficient. >> 18 million americans are eligible to get health care and they choose not to. let's and roll them first. how about that? trace: is it time to bring this thing -- if the liberals say they want the public option, is it time to ditch them or go toward the moderates can get more republicans on board? >> if chuck grassley was serious about bringing something to the table and actually being willing to vote on it, i would say we should continue to work through. i would rather not go to the nuclear option. >> i think they're going to try to get this through. they will pay for it. trace: when he says nuclear, it says all you need is 51 votes. thank you both.

jamie: outrage, horror, and discussed. scotland releases the only terrorist ever convicted in the murders of 270 innocent people, most of them americans. he got out of prison on compassion. compassion that his victims were denied. he gets to go home to be with his family members to die. he has terminal cancer. he gets to say goodbye to his family. in three minutes, we will talk to a mother who lost her 20- year-old daughter in 1988. how does she feel? i wonder how. medicare.

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from brink's home security, you can now expect from broadview security - for home and business. broadview security - the next generation of brink's home security. call now. trace: there is breaking news coming out of colorado. all four soldiers on board a blackhawk helicopter were killed. the crash happened yesterday afternoon. this is on the second highest

mountain. it is about 14,000 feet. the blackhawk helicopter was on a training mission. the crash happened yesterday there was one of the soldiers missing. they have now found his body. all four of them were killed in the crash of that black hawk helicopter late yesterday afternoon. jamie: people are shocked and stunned. they can relate to the families of the victims. after learning that the only tourist that convicted in that bombing is now a free man and check out the video. there he is the convicted murderer boarding a chartered plane bound for libya, his homeland, after he was freed by scottish authorities on compassionate grounds. he has terminal cancer and he wants to die near his family. 270 people, innocent victims killed on december 21, 1988 when

a bomb blew up a pan am flight. 11 people on the ground were also murdered. our next guest was the mother of a college student who was on board the flight. she is in that picture meeting the pope at the vatican. she was awarded her college degree posthumously. her mother is joining me now on the phone. we can certainly all understand your grief and your anchor at seeing him board that plane and go home. as trace said at the beginning of this show, only 11 and a half days serve for each of the innocent victims that were killed. what message would you have for the scottish authorities who made this decision? >> i have already sent my message to them through e-mail

and told them that this is the most distressing day that i have felt since to december 21 -- since december 21. all of us in our family were going to washington and going to the trial. now knowing that he is able to go home and die with his family is more than i can take. my daughter did not get to die with her family. my daughter died alone. jamie: i have heard that from other family members that they cannot grasp why he is entitled to go and die with his family when all of these victims on the plane were not. many of them were alone. >> that is right. there were families on that

plane. there were young people. there were babies. >> it is your feeling that he did not act alone? >> we know that he did not act alone. most of us that have been into the 21 years that this has happened to are pretty sure that he did not act alone. this is state-sponsored terrorism. gaddaffi is a terrorist state. i am not sure that he really believes that is what he has done. they're going to treat him like a hero. he's going to get to die with his family. it is injustice. i can tell you how angry i am. i have not felt that emotional for a long time. i have felt sadness.

that never goes away. the anchor has come back to me. ideas cannot express to you how disappointed all of us are. jamie: you stay in touch and try to support each other knowing that your daughter is not with you as this terrorist gets to go back to a country that pursuit is released. thank you for talking with us. >> you are very welcome. thank you for being interested in the victims' families. jamie: we are very interested. our thoughts and prayers are with all of the families. it is unimaginable for them to see this day come. trace: we cannot understand how much pain they went through when that plane -- the young people on there.

jamie: libyan officials denied any involvement in this terrorist act. >> it is a shame. a reality show contestant on the run. since we reported his wife missing, the body of his wife was found the next day strangled, stuffed in a suitcase. where police believe he is hiding right now and the alarming information we're learning about his past. you already know it is dangerous. can you see what happens what happens when you text behind the wheel? .

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trace: in the top box, we are awaiting the white house

briefing. ? in the middle box, senator ted kennedy asking for the change of law so that his replacement can happen quickly. in bottom box, at least 26 people killed in terrorist attacks across afghanistan. roughly 40% to 50% of the voters in afghanistan cast a ballot. jamie: new developments in the international manhunt for the reality show finalist we have been telling you about. washington state believepolice believe he is back in canada, literally a state authorities who wanted to question him since he reported his wife missing. the body of the former swimsuit model was found in a trash bin in orange county, california. according to authorities, she was strangled and stuffed in a

suitcase. new developments about jenkins. turns out back in june, he was busted on domestic abuse and las vegas and is awaiting trial on those charges. canadian police say that jenkins served 15 months' probation for a 2007 assault on another woman. trace: the dangers of texting while driving brought to life in a new terrifying way. a new public-service announcement is extremely graphic. we have to warn you. it is very intense. >> it is not even funny. >> let me get his number. [screaming] ♪

trace: the point they are trying to make is that it is very scary stuff. the issue of distracted driving is now on the agenda for new york's finest, the nypd is out for folks in defying the ban. they issued more than 9000 tickets for drivers using a telephone call on monday. each ticket is about $120. when i was younger, they did those videos called scare straight. if you had any idea about getting into drugs or crime, they would say this is what it is like behind bars and this is kind of bad. that was all a dramatization. jamie: is graphic, but not as graphic as hearing that your child was in an accident and

having to go to the emergency room and see someone in that condition. it is graphic, but it is realistic. even adults should not be taxed exting. trace: new developments in the disappearance of a georgia mom who vanished more than one week ago. authorities are switching gears. we will tell you what they're doing. two of her relatives will join us to give us the latest on exactly what is going on, karl, it stinks in here! you've gotta wash this whole room! are you kidding? wash it?! let's wash it with febreze!

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[captioning made possible by fox news channel] captioned by the national captioning institute --www.ncicap.org-- trace: that is the white house briefing room, where robert gibbs will take the podium. you will be asked questions about health care. maybe at the top of the docket will be this thing they're calling the nuclear option. the real name is reconciliation. it means that in the senate, instead of 60 votes to pass legislation, they will push it through. they will change the rules and used 51 votes to get the legislation passed. it has been used for things like tax cuts and welfare overhaul. it has never been used for health care reform. bret bair joins us now. we call it the nuclear option because, in essence, this is a civil war in the senate. clear battle lines have been drawn.

the democrats on one side. the democrats on the other. that is the way it is. >> it is important to point out that republicans have used this numerous times before. for a massive package like health care reform that is more than 1/6 of the nation's economy, there are lots of people, both democrats and republicans who say they should not be used in this piece of legislation. we are still a number of steps away from that, if senate majority leader harry reid decides he wants to use reconciliation. you would have to get over a number of hurdles. it is not clear that the health- care bill can make it over those hurdles that have been set up in the legislative process. the top hurdle is the piece of legislation has to be paid for for five years and has to be a deficit neutral after that.

as we have seen, that is not the case with what is on the table right now. trace: what about the political risk? what is the risk of the democrats saying we will go this alone? >> essentially, republicans from that point on would be committing to gumming up the worms. they would be left out of a massive piece of legislation. thereby, they would likely do everything they could do to slow down every other piece of legislation that the democrats are trying to get troops. -- that the democrats are trying to get through. there's a lot that has to be done. the first is funding the 12 appropriations bills that have yet to come out. some of them are still in committee. some of them have to be voted on by the end of october. then you have cap and trade legislation. you have other big developments that the house and senate have

to deal with. if reconciliation is used on health care, republicans would slow everything down. trace: i wanted your feel on what just happened with the interview that just went on between the talk radio show host from philadelphia and the president. it was broadcast live out of the white house. as major garrett said, this has never been done. what was the point behind that? is there a sense that the questions that were asked were the toughest questions that the president could have been posed? >> there's always a debate about questioning and the venue that he chooses to go on. the talk-show host was a supporter in the campaign for president obama. the listeners asked some interesting questions. i think there were still some people out there that think president obama could answer some tougher, more pointed questions on health care legislation. the point is that the white house believes the president is

the best pitchman. major garrett pointed this out earlier. when asked what specifically has to be in health care legislation, he did not say the public option. he said, we have said there are a number of components to health care and i see nothing wrong with having the public option as one choice. and no one should be obligated to go into a public plan. you get to the point of -- from the left's point of view, that is not exactly president obama defending public option and insisting it be in this legislation. from the fact check point of view, even independent groups say that he cannot really say that people would just choose or not choose to go into a public plan because a number of employers would choose not to have a private insurance plan if there's a public option on the

table to independent groups say millions of people would then be forced off the private plans into the public option. the president believes he is the man to go out there and pitch this. trace: thank you. jamie: one of the things president obama decided is that guantanamo bay will close. what to do with the terrorists there? the debate is now playing out in standish, mich. the proposal calls for moving the detainees to the maximum security prison you're looking at in standish. today, an emergency town hall meeting on whether or not they should be brought to this community, what it means economically, and also from a security standpoint. catherine herridge is in standish, mich.

the meeting has been going on for a while. people have been speaking about security, and also some of the 9/11 victims' family members. what do they want government officials to know? >> we are about two hours into the town hall meeting. the question has come up over and over again. it has been about safety and security. the people who gathered at this catholic church wanted to know that if you brought the detainees to the maximum security prison, would terrorists tried to come to northern michigan to try to help them break out? would the terrorists tried to lodge plots from inside the prison? more specifically, how do you deal with this long-term? one of the people who was at the town hall told that the panel that was assembled, there were five panelists, including one of the 9/11 family members, was

very one-sided. he felt this community needed to have a balanced and open discussion about the issues before they can make an educated decision about what was best for the town. jamie: how important is it for this community economically? initially, they bore for its -- initially, there were for it. what has changed? >> there seems to be two key issues. one is the safety and security. does it put a target on the back of this community? and secondly, but would be the economic impact of keeping the present open if you brought the detainees here? there are about 300 jobs at the present. it is the biggest employer in the town. unemployment here is 17%. from what i've heard from the meeting, they are not convinced that it would keep the present open, and the jobs with state local jobs.

for example, if you are joining the federal corrections service, you have to be under the age of 37. 85% of the guards there right now would not qualify for those positions. the people want more information. if they bring the detainees to this city, will it really have an economic impact? will it be beneficial to the town in the long run? jamie: that is so interesting. the unemployment rate is 17%. and they need the jobs. and they may not get the best defense takeover. catherine herridge, thank you. on the phone right now, michigan state representative tim moore. he is a republican. how do you feel about this? >> my top priority is to make sure that it stays open in a safe manner.

the first priority will be through the budget process that we're working on right now in michigan -- i would like to keep the present open with michigan inmates. i am opposed to releasing these inmates as a way of dealing with the budget issue. jamie: so they would not be filling the vacancies? you would have to transport your prisoners to another location. >> the prison does have inmates from michigan right now. we like to keep them there. the filling of a lot of people in the community is to make sure that we keep all options available. the next that i'm pursuing with the governor's help is that we are looking at out of state prisoners. obviously, california decided that is not for them. we are also looking at pennsylvania. jamie: why do you think the justice officials chose standish?

do you think you're getting the right amount of intelligence? we have heard from others that you may not have access to a lot of classified information to know who would become in thei -- more information on who would be coming? >> absolutely, we would love more intelligence. i do know that we have a prison that is 33% of the city's budget. you're looking at 350 jobs in a city that has poured two hundred people. -- in a city that has 1400 people. i know the implications of this. why would they take standish? it is a state-of-the-art facility. it was built 19 years ago. it consistently scores in the high 90s in performance evaluation treated has never had any bloody -- it is always korea

in the '90s in performance evaluations. it has never had anybody escape. jamie: as the meeting continues, concerned citizens and others are expressing their opinion. thank you very much. trace: millions around the world condemned the release of abdel al-megrahi. he is flying home to libya so you can die of prostate cancer in his own country john bolton -- today's elections in afghanistan through those doors are next. imperial can convert your long-term payout into a lump sum of cash today.

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how you could start saving. trace: in bottom box, we are awaiting the arrival in libya of the lockerbie bomber, abdel al- megrahi. he was released in scotland. he is on an airplane making his way back home to libya of. he was released because of compassionate reasons because he has prostate cancer to ye. this has outraged families all over the world. even now, president obama speaking out against the compassionate release of a terrorist. he was supposed to serve at least 27 years for killing 270 people, including 189 americans. as you can see, he was boarding

a plane so he could fly home to his family. john bolton is the former ambassador of the un and a fox news contributor. they view this as a victory, as a celebration of sorts. >> claim he is innocent of the killing of 270 people. this is a travesty. the families of the victims are outraged, and they should be. trace: he was known for years as a political hostage. what does it do for relations? president obama has condemned this. >> we have full diplomatic relations with libya. that was put in place after they gave up the nuclear weapons program. we will not gain anything by this. even if this person has terminal cancer, if you want compassion, bring his relatives to scotland. trace: is there any recourse?

the victims are outraged. they want to know if there's anything they can do? >> he was held in scotland. we had agreed years ago that he would be tried according to a scottish justice. he could have been tried in this country. under double jeopardy, we will not get another shot at him. trace: we have diplomatic relations, as you say. >> this was not a decision purely by the government of scotland. they have a separate jurisdiction. this is conceivable because prime minister gordon brown decided he wanted this to happen. president obama needs to raise this with gordon brown. trace: i want to get your opinion on afghanistan. the election was held today. it is 11:45 p.m. in afghanistan. the question becomes, the violence today -- 26 people were killed. yet, the fortitude of those who

led to the voting polls today. were you surprised? >> we will have to see what the final turnout is through the taliban's efforts. registration is up over 1/3. a lot of them are women. whatever the final turnout is, we will have more voting that voting before. trace: is there a sense that the taliban -- they threatened violence, and there was violence, but not nearly the violence we expected. is this a sign the taliban is not as strong as we believed they are? >> inside afghanistan, they're not as strong. the real danger is in pakistan. we have to be done in both places. if this election turns out well, it will be a huge setback to the terrorists. trace: if it turns out that

president karzai is the leader, the question is, is he the man to lead afghanistan in the future? >> this is why you have elections. we will see if he gets past the runoff. he needs above 50%. there were other strong candidates. the people of afghanistan have a choice. trace: john bolton, thank you. jamie: go to foxnews.com for full coverage of this. you can also take our online poll. do you agree with the decision to release the lockerbie bomber? go ahead and cast your vote. it has been more than one week after kristi cornwell disappeared while taking a walk in north georgia. she was on the phone with her boyfriend. he said he heard her say, "please do not take meet" and he is finally speaking out.

>> but we do not want to see happen is this to relieve the front page. this could happen to anyone. jamie: he gave that interview to fox news. in three minutes, her family will tell us what they think happened to her. stay with us. @=h

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trace: in the top box, we are awaiting new information on hurricane bill. it is now a category 3 storm. it could quickly turn back into a category four. it is a long ways out. anybody on the eastern seaboard needs to keep their eyes open for that. in the middle box, tornadoes and severe storms hit a large part of the midwest. a massive clean up is now under way in parts of iowa, minnesota, wisconsin, indiana, and illinois. in bottom box, a jump in jobless claims, the number of newly laid-off workers filing for unemployment benefits, rising unexpectedly for the second straight week. the unemployment rate is 9.4%. they expect the number to go up. jamie: the georgia bureau of investigation is calling off a general search for 38-year-old kristi cornwell.

she is a mom. she is missing. it has been one week. she is a former probation officer. she disappeared on august 11. her boyfriend said he was talking to her on the telephone and he heard a struggle and then she said, "please don't take me." >> i knew what i was hearing to be real. i know she was frightened. i know beyond a shadow of the doubt that she was abducted. jamie: what does the family think about that? kristi cornwell's cousin is on the phone with me now. what do you think about the story that the boyfriend is telling? she may have been in a struggle and she said, "please don't take me." >> that is what we heard early

on in the investigation. that is not necessarily new information to us. i think it has been reported in some of the other media and things like that. we think it is important information. we are glad we have that information. jamie: will the search continued even though the georgia bureau of investigation has called off some of the resources they had in place? >> absolutely. we will continue to do an investigative research. they will do that and we will continue our search as well. jamie: in the minds of all these family members, it has been one week. you must have run through a number of scenarios that you think may be at play. she is a probation officer. perhaps she came in contact with

people who may have been on the wrong side of the law. does that play into your theories of what may have happened? do you think something else is under way? >> it is hard to tell. all the information we have gotten from the investigators is that they have been pursuing all the leads. it may include some of the people she had previous contact with. there's no indication so far that anyone like that was involved. we have continued to repeat what they told us. there's no hard evidence either way, whether this was a random act of violence, or whether it was somebody who knew her from a previous circumstance. jamie: we are putting up the number of the georgia bureau of investigation, but anyone can call 911 if they think they spot kristi cornwell. there is some possibility that she is listening or that somebody has her. do you have a quick message?

>> we want her to know that we love her and we are looking for her with every resource. if somebody has her, we want the person to know that we want her back and we need her back. jamie: thank you. trace: there is breaking news. over the sky of california, there are naked people on southwest airlines. the airplane was turned around because people took their clothing off? >> one person. a man and woman on the flight on a southwest airlines flight were going to say louis. they're leaving from oakland. they got into some kind of altercation. someone took their clothes off. they turned the plane around to the plane landed safely. the plane landed find. trace: thank you very much.

the pictures will be highly coveted when they come in. jamie: you do not get that story every day. trace: i bet it was the man, by the way. he said, if you do not stop, i will take my clothes off. jamie: sounds like you've seen that situation before. i will get to the bottom of that. in the meanwhile, a man walked out of a park in seattle three weeks ago. he says he does not know his name or when he was born or how he got there or why. but he does know three languages. this is the mystery of the man with of ninja they taste fresh... say it again! what? say it like, "mmmm, these healthy choice fresh mixers taste freshh!!" they taste fresh... wait. what are you doing? got it. you're secretly taping me? you were good too! but you know, it wasn't a secret to us, we knew... yes, but it was a secret to me.

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>> looks like brian jenkins -- ryan jenkins made a run for the border as the cops want to question him on the murder of his life. -- murder of his wife. of today's art following up on witness reports that a man fitting his description was seen crossing the canadian border on foot tripoli's press conferences coming up in 30 minutes. trace: 2 the weather center. hurricane bill is still big. >> category three is a major hurricane. 120 m.p.h. sustained winds. it has a lot of warm weather to travel through. where will it go? we're days out from seen this thing perhaps make landfall.

there's the latest track. category four over the next 24 hours. we will have to watch it very closely. back to you. trace: thank you. now to the nasdaq. the airline deal that was really too good to last. >> i am watching jetblue shares up more than 2%. the company unveiled the unlimited, all you can fly pass last week for $600 for 30 straight days. it was too good to last. the company shut down the program today. the reason, demand was so high that they ran out the passes trace: thank you. you can fly, but they wanted to keep your clothes on.

jamie: you need to get to the bottom of that. new numbers from the labor department shows that businesses of all sizes are hemorrhaging jobs with a net loss of 1.8 million jobs in the last quarter of 2008. job losses from the smallest companies, those that employ five people or less, accounted for 14.5% of the total. companies with 1000 or more workers shed 20% to. -- 20% of the jobs lost in the quarter. trace: small businesses showing signs of improvement. to provide us with a snapshot, we go to a family owned a strawberry and produce farm in california. it was first established in 1976. estimated to have annual revenue of $5 million deal $10 million. william la jeunesse, how is business doing? >> this is a bottom-up look at

the economy did a statewide -- this is a bottom-ability of the economy. statewide, domestic demand is soft. we have problems with asia. also, water restrictions are hurting some farmers. we may lose 20,000 from jobs this year alone. that is not true everywhere. you own a farm in orange county. and about four or five a vegetable stands. what are you finding in terms of demand, and what is helping your business? >> as long as we put out a good product, people come in. >> the idea of think global, buy local, is that helping you? >> absolutely. >> it is strawberry season. >> the season just ended.

we brought these in from a friend up north. >> let me ask you a question about high green. -- give me a snapshot about hiring. >> during the weeks, we would like to have two or three people. when he gets slow, you cannot do that to you have to cut back and maybe have one or two. >> are you finding anything improving? >> it is pretty good on the weekends, but the bleak days are slow -- but the weekdays are slow. it is not like it was two years ago. >> that is important. customers have told me that they like to see where their vegetables are coming from. there has been a problem with sourcing vegetables and e.coli and those kind of things. they do not have the problem here. >> we have tied the sanitation

and we know what you're doing. >> what do you see in the economy? can you see hiring more people? >> not at this point, but we are hopeful. >> back to you. the big issue in california is bader. -- the big issue in california is water. trace: william la jeunesse on the road to recovery. our series continues online. go to foxnews.com. you will find the latest video, the latest worries, and the latest news on america's road to recovery. jamie: a lot of breaking news this hour. president obama talking strategy, politics, and his plan to reform health care. he is about to take part in a national forum at dnc

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trace: in the top box, french investigators abandoning the second round of search efforts for the black box from air france jet that crashed a couple of months ago. it crashed on june 1. all 228 on board were killed. in the middle box, in florida, the democratic congressman wexler is attending a town hall held by the alliance for retired americans. in bottom box, president obama talking health care on the radio today. jamie: the president is not the only one talking about health care. in sampras's go, house speaker nancy pelosi is meeting with religious leaders -- in san francisco.

carl cameron is following all the developments in washington. it is great to see you. tell me what happened at this meeting. >> the senators and congressmen have been arguing with the members of their town hall citizenry for the last three weeks. we're halfway through the august recess. they are getting an earful. there has been a big development relative to the senate and the democrats' majority. ted kennedy has written a letter in massachusetts to the governor and the state legislature. he has been battling brain cancer. he has now begun to take steps for the eventual vacancy of his senate seat. wrote the governor and legislature, urging them to change the state law to allow the governor to make a speedier appointment when his seat becomes vacant. under current law, the governor cannot make the appointment and their five months with which to

hold a special election to that is way too long for the democrats, who realize they need every vote they can get. he said, "serving the people of massachusetts and the united states senate is the greatest honor of my public life. as i look ahead, i am convinced that and they blame the governor to the bill a senate vacancy would be the best way to serve the people of our commonwealth and country." in 2004, it was kennedy himself who had the law changed to prohibit the and from senate appointment. in that instance, it was 2004. john kerry was running for president. had he won, it would be up to the republican governor of massachusetts, mitt romney, to fill the seat. kennedy push for the legislature to take away the authority. now that there is a democratic governor, it is kennedy himself

who wants to change the law back. jamie: carl cameron, thank you. trace: breaking news out of the white house. the white house briefing has just ended. major garrett, the highlights? >> robert gibbs was asked about the letter from senator kennedy. he said the president had not read it and has the white house no comment. at the end of the briefing, robert gibbs said the media has been "slicing and dicing its coverage of health care town hall meetings." he said it gave a distorted view of the health-care debate. of course, the polling data suggest that it has hurt the white house, the president's popularity, and health care generally. and it has put the president in a defensive posture as he begins his weeklong vacation in martha's vineyard. before that, he will be on a

conference call with organizing america, the vast network dedicated to the white house, and now house in the offices of the democratic national committee. the president will try to rally them as he approaches vacation. on the question of partisanship or by partisanship, robert gibbs said the white house preference is bipartisanship, but it is leaving all options on the table, which could possibly be in late fall decision by leaders of the democratic side to do a go alone approach. trace: major garrett at the white house, thank you. jamie: here we are in shepard smith's pod. he is not here. >> this is a religious, spiritual experience. this is his desk. let me show you this.

this is shepard smith's world's best anchor. this is from his staff. they're just kissing up. coming up at 3:00 p.m. today, they libyan terrorist is back on his way home. we will be talking to one of the family members in that case to be one of the very latest on the model who was found murdered. her husband is missing. a reality show no-so star is a suspect in the case. david copperfield finally sued

by the woman who claimed that he raped her. this is an outrageous lawsuit. i think he may end up being the victim. jamie: interesting. on his private island. somebody get gregg a danish. good job. have a great show. trace: thank you. it is a controversy that has rocked the women's athletic world. is the south african woman who won the eight hundred meter world championship race, if she really a woman? her family says yes. it seems not everybody is convinced. we will take a look at both sides of this issue, and next. introducing the all new chevy equinox. with an epa estimated 32 miles per gallon.

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trace: there is breaking news out of libya.

this is from earlier. that man right there in the white athletic suit, abdel al- megrahi. he is the lockerbie bomber. in december of 1988, it killed 270 people. he is now in libya. he flew from scotland this morning. he was released from prison after spending eight years of a 27-year sentence. he was released for compassionate reasons because he has prostate cancer. he is going home to die with his family. experts say he has between three weeks and three months. clearly, there was no compassion to the people on board that plane to the families are outraged. at the airport in libya, we are told there are thousands of

people cheering and celebrating his return. they are calling this a celebration, a victory parade the leader of that country has lobbied for quite some time for his release from the prison in scotland. he was convicted in 2001 carried a lot of people and libya do not believe he is guilty. a lot of the family members died to differ. they are outraged. he spent eight years, which amounts to 11 days for each of his 270 peopthis dumvictims. they called him a political hostage. now he is back on libyan soil. thousands of people are there to greet him as if this was a heroes' homecoming. >> i spoke to a libyan journalist who said this was sadly what was going to happen

today. he said the libyan press has been calling abdel al-megrahi apolitical hostage. he said it was likely there would be people to greet him. he did not expect that there would be a parade, or that the political leader would be there to greet him. we have fairly limited information of what is happening on the ground. we have no way to see with our own eyes what is going on. there are a lot of people in libya who believe abdel al- megrahi was the scapegoat in all this. they do not think libya had anything to do with this atrocity. that said, abdel al-megrahi was convicted under the scottish legal system, life in prison for the death of 270 people in 1988. trace: his appeal was turned down. the panel of judges in scotland

said the appeal was baseless. they turned down the appeal purity was supposed to serve 27 years in prison. this was the worst terrorist atrocity on united kingdom soil. 270 people. not only did he show compassion for the victims on board the flight, there was never any remorse during the time he served in prison. that is one of the big things the families say was so disheartening. now, the scottish government has ruled that he is allowed to go back to his home country and die surrounded by his family. this was an act of compassion because he has prostate cancer. the question becomes, to the families of the victims have any recourse?

as john bolton said, the answer is no. jamie: and his family could have been brought to scotland. trace: we will have much more on this. abdel al-megrahi is now back on libyan soil. if you are just joining us, we covered this earlier today. he left scotland. he got on board the plane and flew out. this was a luxury jet. he has no landed in libya. he has been greeted by thousands of people at the airport. there were cheering his arrival. this has been billed as a celebration, as a victory for the return of the only man convicted in the bombing of pan am 103 four days before christmas in 1988. 189 americans were on board that

flight. we will bring you much more as it comes into the "live desk." . gecko: yeah right, that makes sense. boss: trust is key when talking about geico. you gotta feel it. why don't you and i practice that with a little exercise where i fall backwards and you catch me. gecko: uh no sir, honestly... uh...i don't think...uh... boss: no, no. we can do this. gecko: oh dear. vo: geico. fifteen minutes could save you 15% or more on car insurance. ever wonder how cheez-it bakes... so much real cheese in such small bites? ♪ baking complete! well, now you know. cheez-it. the big cheese.

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at all. she easily beat her closest rival by more than two seconds, fueling speculation over the reasoning behind the test her family and friends insist that she really is a woman. this question remains open. we are done. thank you so much for watching. it was great fun to be in for martha mccallum. trace: we will see you back here tomorrow. gregg: liberal democrats apparently ready to strongarm health-care bill right through congress. the president saying a health- care bill will get done. since the government is basically broke, we're wondering, who is going to pay for all of this? first, a look at what is in the works right now. in the top box, the only man convicted in the pan am flight 103 bombing has been released. 103 bombing has been released.