rich as you, gary. >> you have a brother, gary b. >> keep it coming, gary b. >> there is a reason why we have a wide screen for this shot, all right. we have got double trouble but singular as a great host is neil cavuto. captioned by, closed captioning services, inc. welcome, i'm neil cavuto and talk about a stimulus screwup. the government admitting nearly 4,000 stimulus checks went to convicts in jail. where it as good place for convicts. now, we asked ourselves, these are the fame folks who want the healthcare? not the convicts but many of

the people who should be. let's get reaction from charles payne and lee gallagher. >> what do you make of this? >> i want to laugh. this is an example. this right now and medicare. 30 billion-year-old frau30 bild and abuse. the white house had to up the deference at this time projection, $2 trillion. >> wow. >> this is crazy and it is insane and this is a great example of what is going to happen. it is hard for any one who does not have a political agenda not to be extremely afraid that this won't be a disaster. >> you know, one of the arguments being raised by proponents is look, neel, you are making a big deal out of a relatively small amount. nevertheless, 10,000 checks to dead people. 4,000 checks to convicts. ty have on the highest authority that 3,000 chihuahuas also got stimulus.

my point is it doesn't end there and i know the arguement was this is just couple p change but it is a lot of change and when we have millions of waste in a multibillion dollar program i suspect we are the chumps. >> i couldn't agree more. my what chihuahua ramon did get a stimulus check. >> did it take it to taco bell. >> my initial reaction is oh, it is only $970,000 and i thought wait, that is where we are. we spent so much money that this is like here and there that is doesn't matter that two million dollars to a great genetics center here in new york state doesn't somehow matter. you mentioned stimulus. there were 52 million social security recipients, railroad retirees and people on ssi who were eligible for the same checks. why were we sending checks to people who weren't even working

from the stimulus package? answer me that. and this is a lot more money. >> but al lewis, the argument, 50 million of the checks went out, certainly you will get dead people and convicts thrown in there. i'm thinking that is a sad commentary right there. >> it is a lot of large numbers. everything that the government does they do it on a big scale and screw it up. what is the big deal here. these guys are paying their debt to society. you know, they got to buy marlboros behind bars, it is expensive. and the checks are supposed to stimulate the economy. there were never any discussion about what parts of the economy couldn't be stimulated like the federal prison system. this is business as usual for our government. >> yes, this was a mistake. the reason why it happened is that these are people who were all eligible for the benefits at the time they were demmed to be given. just found themselves in prison three months later when the

checks were cut. >> when the envelopes are going out and they say levinworth, attica, should they say wait a minute, where are the checks going. i understand it is a small percentage. i don't dismiss that. i heard from people that said let's fix it on move on. before we move on with other elaborate more elaborate programs let's make sure that we don't revisit something like this. >> when you are talking about eliminating waste and things like this, what you have to look at is the waste and excess in the system that we are already paying for by insurancing the uninsured or paying for the uninsured. when an uninsured person has a disease and doesn't manage it, they put off dealing with it until the cost tion are explosive and that is costing so much money that is a far bigger. >> you are working under the assumption, charles, that the government is going to exact those savings in the long run and the government has yet to

do that. >> i don't know that we can use savings and government in the same sentence. i don't care who, if you are for the plan or not. two parts to the whole healthcare thing. the price tag of $1 trillion is way too low and toesent add up. we will have 47 million more people and that is all it will cost and somehow we will be able to pay for it, there will be more waste. whatever they think waste is now, they better start to multiply it. >> any time any talks about medicare or trimming costs in medicare, people go bananas. when you put a government program in place and people start getting it, nobody wants it cut, no the a liberal, not a conservative. they talk about finding savings in medicare to pay for the healthcare everhaul. medicare today is paying out more money than it is taking in. it will go broke by 2017. how does that add up? we need to fix medicare and worry about what we already

have in terms of a government plan rather than getting the government more involved with it. >> they move congress has taken a practice run here. let's say we end up in the bighouse. could we get checks to us? >> a lot of them end up there. >> what happens next. >> i don't know what it going to happen next. we have huge problems with costs in the healthcare system and there is talk about how we will control costs but as we have seen time and time again the government does not really control costs. on the other hand, i don't know that big business necessarily controls costs. we will have more demand for healthcare services as the baby boom generation and what happens with more demand? the price goes up. how is the government and private industry going to manage that? these are all open questions and there is a lot of heated rhetoric going back and forth

and nobody is really addressing them. healthcare reform as it stands right now means nothing. >> we will get into the whole cost of what the numbers really matter or are reliable or even remotely accurate. we do know we ever getting deeper in the red ink here. >> knowing that we had the abuse and a part of the stimulus program that was supposed to reignite the economy, might this give anything that the government does -- >> i think it is an unfortunate error but i don't think that is reason to cast the entire program in doubt. i agree with what al said. >> you must have relatives who are convicts. >> i'm not going talk about that. you can't always rely on big business to solve the problem either because a lot of the waste that is happening comes from what is happening in the private insurance sector which motivates doctors to inflate charges and test for things they don't need to test. that is going on in the private sector, too. there is no easy answer which is why this is such a huge

problem and needs to be fixed. >> lee, you said there is no easy answer. tort reform, knock downstate barriers. that is called competition. that would help a lot. i think the private sector -- what the government is great at, we have the best military in the world but it is not a for profit entity. we are talking about them getting into an industry and competing with private business and saying itle be a fair fight. it won't be and i got to believe that healthcare is going to get worse on physicians except with prisoners who get pretty good healthcare already, i think. >> when we come up here, we have this. >> assume the position. >> thank you, sir,, may i have another. >> well, the paddle in congress, government healthcare. let the intimidation tactics

business. for the latest headlines, log on to fox news.com. you're watching the most powerful name in news, fox news channel. >> time is running out. they have until friday to provide a complete salary or bonus breakdown of the top workers. one instead wants to summon them all to capitol hill. what will the companies have in common? not one has signed on to the democrat's healthcare plan and

he thinks there is more to the little chat than meets the eye. what do you think? >> scary, i have gone toe to toe with them before and at a distance. they are alling all the people to congress, it is nothing but pure intimidation. >> do they have to go? >> no, but they always go. >> and always answer the letters. >> it is always monday morning quarterbacking and finger pointing but they have to feel like, it is like walking down the alley to the ok corral. it is scary stuff. >> i get where you are coming from. >> at least if he is going to drag them, drag them in in front of everybody so we can see what it going on rather than if you are pulling the documents are you going to make them available to the public. >> he is trying to intimidate them. >> because the democrats have to come up with a darth vader in all of this. some big evil entity to sell

the plan to the american people. it will be the insurance company. they are trying to deflect the attention off of the consumers. if you look at what he wants, that is what is happening. >> the last go around with the clintons, the drug companies, not a one of them has got and letter or demand to come to capitol hill. i suspect it could have to do that they prom mittsed $80 billion in savings over the next decade. where and how they arrive at that, i have no idea. not one of them has got then type of inquiry. what is going on? >> nothing like the inquiry like this to get all the ducks in a row, you are right about this. as a journalist you can't complain too much about the hearings. i love them. the ceo is on the stand and they have to answer the questions. that is a good thing for the

public. these are big boys and they get paid millions of dollars a year and they can answer the question. anand if we find a darth veteran's stadiumer in all of this, it is because the facts aren't on their side. >> they are not looking for a dartdarth vader they are tryino create a darth veteran's stadium. you are not going to create a darth vader unless someone has a. >> before that it used to be the drug companies. they got a pass i suspect because of. >> some of the companies are really good companies. i had aetna insurance, i think they are great. i'm glad my employer pays for most of it but my premiums have been going up every year. >> i have been refused by the best of them. lee, let me ask you this, wouldn't it be fun with the hearings, now it is the ce os turn to question the questioners.

would be like a pay per view event. nonetheless, what is going to come of the hearings or is it going to be just a show? >> we don't know. one thing different about the insurance bill is that most people really don't know much about their business. united healthcare earned a 155% profit in the second quarter. i don't think most people know that, let alone how that happened. i agree this stuff might be perfectly fine and nothing wrong with it. i think some of this is political theater and grandstanding like we saw last year. >> the former lehman brothers. >> exactly. and the auto execs as well. although we did learn in the case of the auto industry ex-ecs we learned they were completely clue many because they took the private yet there's. >> unlike the questioners who bought private yet jets and later had to return them. >> if this is profit for profit sake and executive compensation

that is in line with other companys. >> that is not what the government wants. >> did gallagher just say kosher. >> they want to examine the nature and cost benefit and impact of administrative measures and protocols used by the health insurance industry. i said it last week they are moving toward more government involvement in the healthcare. it will be more government in the healthcare system period. >> if we learned one thing it is that too much bad stuff can happen with not a lot of regulation. what is the harm in asking and digging a little bit. if people dug into structured financial products and derivatives a little more we might not be in the mess we are in. >> the healthcare system is not going to take down the entire country and economy and banking system. >> how do we know that. >> that is apples and oranges. >> you were right when you said how did they make 150% profit.

there is a cap on how much corporations and executives should make. this is all part of a greater plan really for the government to control not just regulations and rules but how much money people make, profits and all that, shouldn't it be journalisted as long as it is legal and fair? >> and the companies have done the share holders well. >> but the share holders aren't complaining. >> a noble thing to make 150% profit off of the sick and infirmed. how do you go home to your mom and say this is how i made my big bonus. >> but to not be sick and not be infirm. >> you can do what you do for free and be ai altruistic about your job. >> i do what i do a lot cheaper. >> i can't relate to -- i can relate this. i just found out what other fox

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forcing americans to have less cash for their gold aren years. they want to lower the amount how to contribute tax free to

your 401 k. >> it is insane, ridiculous. it is unbelievable that the government is going to discourage savings in an environment where we learned that you can't live off credit. we need to save more for your retirement. and the market, people got a -- lost a quarter of their money in the 401(k) plan last year and you going to reduce that benefit. i know it is a rule but they need to break the rule. they want the american people to spend money to get the economy coming back but in the long run we need to save more. the savings rate is still below the 30 year expectation. >> the social security beneficiaries will receive less, actually a flatline. >> you cannot cut social security. >> but with the medicare thing they will. it will be flatlined. >> i have no problem with flatlined but cutting the eight built, nowadays we do not give people enough incentive to save for retirement. >> i think it is disingenuous

to say let's break the rule of the debt right away, this they want us to spend a lot of money. first of all, we are nonsavers, but give us a tax break and we will spend some money. >> everything they are addressing here is not included in the savings figures, 401 k which is interesting. lee, what do you think of the whole debate? >> i think they will probably find a way around this. i think it would be a p.r. nightmare, just a train wreck if this has to come out and the government can say sorry, we are going lower the contributions, the maximum. i think in this climate when the savings rate is still not what it should be but it has gone up a lot. people are saving, they are trying after what we have been through. i would be surprised if it actually does end up passing. >> al, this is 16,000 or more,

if you are an old geezer and want to put more into it. it is substantially higher than used to be. >> i would like to say this is a hidden tax increase. it is a small one. most people aren't going to pay it and feel it. they are talking about changing it from sic sixteen five down o sixteen. that is five hundred dollars a year that you will not be able to shelter. that gives the government a little bit more revenue and in that sense kind of a hidden tax increase. i don't think that that will affect that many people. i don't know that that many american savers put away sixteen grand that year. >> like the rich folks deductions. >> they are pulling every. >> it is a tax on the higher income people. >> every trick in the book, you are right. you will see it. they have to be careful when they go down these paths because there may be a point

where it works against them. i think it would be a huge pr disaster. >> this guy turned a $2 powerball ticket into 260 million bucks. now, our gang is ready to help you turn a few dollars into your own big winner with their pow irstocks.

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>> neil: this guy just won $260 million but after taxes, the winning drop to $88 million. petty. our gang can help him and with their own power stocks. >> i like the technology stocks. this one is a least double over the next 12 months. >> i like the company it's expensive. it's a little high for my comfort. >> it's doubled in the last year and all the analysts like it and that gives me pause. >> neil: that is an interesting way to look at it. speaking of health care, dickinson is maker of laboratory supplies, catheters and strong earnings growth and warren buffett bought 1.2 million shares in the second quarter. so never a problem to follow the oracle. >> i don't think you'll make a lot of money on t