could, on the show. >> he has other things to do -- what is hideki? -- ducking me? ççhe could, on the show -- con the show. sean: that asçç all the time e have, and greta van susteren is here to go on the record. out of prison. >> from this day forward, talking with you, i do not give a damn what anybody does to me. çi aiç going to say what i thik is right. i in going to do what i think is right. greta: former congressman jamesç çtraficant, but first, karl roe on the health-care battle. nice to see you, karl. >>ç good to see you,ç greta. greta: after watching the speech

last night, do you have a sense of the strategy that the president and the democrats are using to get health care passed? >> çi think heç is signaling t he will give the rhetorical issue to republicans, but "i am really going to jam this bill through." thereç isç often gratuitous partisanship in his remarks. you do not go in there and call people that you want to get their votes from as lawyers and say that they do not want to do anything, -- geáhtheirç votes d call them "liars." he was indicating a willingness to move on the public option. ççi read the speech again toda couple of times, and i think he is going with a democrat-only strategy, jam it through. we will have a billç by 'g, and i think it was a my way or the highway, and

if you want to come along, fine, but i am going to jam it through. ççif you do not have a signift majority of american people in favor of it, or you have a narrow majority, you have to have your people more enthusiasticç. ãothis time around, we do not he that. this thing is upside down. this is to say that the president's plan is less popular, and it draws more oppositionç than it does suppo, and then, the people that feel strongly in opposition to it are up here, and others are down here, particularly among the group that are going to be çvoting next yearç in the election. in off-year elections, seniors, and make up about 1/6 voters, eligible voters, and they make up to closed one out of every threeç votersç in an off-year election. -- close to one out of every three voters. ççin 2006, when the democratsk

back the house, it was 43 republicans. today, 43 democrats. that is the latestç generic ballot,ç so if that does not improve, that could mean a lot of bad things. 78 democrats in districts --ç john mccain and george w. bush. greta: if they push it through, if it turns out to be a great bill, as he and the democrats çare a hero.% if it is a thud, they will remember that for years to come -- if it turnsç@-uq to be a gt bill, he and the democrats are a hero. >> hr 3200, they begi% inç year one and your two, 2010, 2011 -- and your two. there will not be any new programs -- year one and year

there will be medicare cuts. we have millions on medicare advantage. there will be a 20% cut in government supportçç of medice advantage plans. every expert i've talked to says that medicare advantage plans are going away, and that means they will lose their supplemental coverage. çthat is about 24,000 seniors n average per congressional district --çç or 4000 some seniors per congressional district and those are people who have now lost their coverage, because in year one, their plançç gets cut 20%. greta: president obama says he wants a bipartisan solution to health care, but is that possible? çsome republicansç say we neeo start from scratch, or nothing will pass. well, now what? mike nezi joins us bjmikeçç e-

mike enzi joins us, and he is a memberç nv the gang of 6, and u are the only accountant there. do these numbers add up? bet the president of talked about last night? do yguç believe this really ms nothing added to the deficit -- that the president talked about last night? >> the bill that i amç really familiavç with is another bill that we already passed, and that one does not have the pay-fors in it. ççi am having some difficultyh it, mostly because they are not all in. i am also the one -- we are puttingç in a lot ofç hidden s in there, and and we are facing taxes in later, which hides some of it -- and we are facing taxef the taxes, and we are talking about placing some taxes on the

company's related to the price- relatedç insurance thatç theyl -- on the companies related, and it will be passed through. if they do not pass the taxes greta: you said you have some difficulty, or, you were very polite. there was a term. i mean, whadçç is your level of certainty that the bill that is going to come up from your democratic colleagues in the senate is going to be deficit neutral? çis it,ç i do not know, 95% certain that it is going to be deficit neutral? >> the president said he would not sign a bill that wasçç not deficit neutral. i do not know how we will get to that, particularly in the time frame we have been given. apparently, we have until tuesdayç night toç finish up y negotiations we are having. we are still asking some pretty basic questions. the governor'ççs have been upt

about having additional costs put on them. we promised we would talk to the governor is againçç -- governs again. we have not got the numbers back from the cbo so they can be brokenç down state by state. some states will get a tremendous increase in cost. some will not, because they have been doing this at a much higher rate, butç it will be a çtremendous weight on some of e state's. greta: senatorç baucus says ths çis coming out. have we are still talking concepts so we have seen people with a bill about 8 inches thick. we have been insisting that we see the details. the details of not been written. we are still asking basic

questions. medicaid is an example of the pri of we are talking about medical malpractice. the preston said that needed to be a part of it. it is a simple solution. i am not sure that there is authority for her to do that. i think he is referring to the baucus bill. we talked about some demonstration prospects on ways to bring down medical malpractice. >> the looks like -bread we were the ones we are hoping to get the numbers from. good luck. we hope the members all at upper right. there is breaking news tonight about a scandal involving a

committee involving a corm. they have fired two employees. it is shot by a filmmaker and an associated. they get tax evasion to a man posing as a pimp. a woman pretended to be -- >> [unintelligible] you are going to get shot down. greta: listen to what she says when a 13 year-old girl will be used in the operation. >> what if they are making money? >> if they are making money and they are under age [unintelligible] i am not hearing that. greta: they say the employees in a meet the group standards of professionalism. up next, the question causing

huge conjure visit. will illegal immigrants and of with healthcare? president obama says no. the speaker is going to tell the himself what the plan is. they do not miss interview with a one of a kind man in his first interview since the walked out of prison. will he get even with his enemies? you'll find out. the average family wastes over $500 a year in food. don't throw it away. protect it in the freezer. ziploc freezer bags form a fresh shield... that saves food from freezer burn, saving you money. s.c. johnson, a family company.

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>> the reforms that i am proposing would not apply to those who are here illegally. greta: ççso what is the truth? will illegal immigrants be covered, or not? former new york governor george pataki joins us. >> nice to be with you. çgreta:ç questions about that. given some sort of health-care insurance or not? >> greta, if i may, it is less than two hours until september 11, and health care is important, and we should talk about that, but i would feel bad in my heart if i did not mention, not just on september 11, but that we just do not forget the heroes of that died in those terrible attacks and

that every day our security is at risk. greta: likewise, governor, we have a special tomorrow night at 10:00 p.m. to honor those heroes so we do not forget what happened on that day and in the not? >> one of the things that troubled me in the president's speech last night his that he makes assertions of facts as if there is no questioning them. we will not increase the deficit by 19. if i do not see when you're going to get spending increases that are projected at $900 billion, which means more than laid out a plan to how you will raise the revenue or offset expenses, you can make that flap-out assertion? he makes that flat out assertion that no bureaucrat is going to stand between you and

your doctor, whether it is a public system or a private system -- you can make that flat out assertion? and then, of course, he made the statement that "i can assure you that no illegal immigrant is going to get benefits under this bill." well, all of these assertions i think really raise questions, and certainly i think this one does, and the congressional research service has done a detailed analysis of the health- care bills, and they have said flat out that illegal immigrants will be eligible hundred the insurance exchange, to purchase the insurance that is offered the insurance exchange to purchase the insurance that is offered them. i think there has to be true negotiation. there cannot be this effort to say that if you disagree with the proposals that you are somehow trying to be political or prevent any reform.

we all know reform is necessary, sure we do it right. greta: you know, governor, one of the things that your party says, the republicans say, and i am reading this from the republicans, that they had defeated successfully every amendment that would require proof of residency for those seeking health care. i guess we could put this to rest by putting something in there, a phrase or two, so we would not have this, because democrats say it is not going to cover illegal immigrants, and republicans say, "ok, we want proof of that," and the democrats, apparently, are>> that is part of the reason why you do not have a bipartisan bill at this point, because the rhetoric says "let's come together," but when the republicans offer a simple solution as to whether or not illegals will be covered by saying flat out that the benefits will be given to anyone any provision of this bill, but democrats say, "oh, no, we will

not put that in the bill." that makes you wonder if they will support what is in the bill. there are a number of areas where at the very least, there is a possibility that illegal immigrants would be covered, and neutral groups have said, yes, flat out, they will be covered. greta: well, certainly, i will tell you one thing. it certainly appears to have a lot of talking going back and questions, as well, as the tea party people claim they have got lots of questions, but, governor, thank you, sir, and, you are from the state that wasthank you, governor. >> thank you, greta. greta: up next, former speaker of the house newt gingrich goes on the record, and he says he has a health-care plan for you. talking to you before anyone else, james traficant, a former

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[captioning made possible by fox news channel] captioned by the national captioning institute --www.ncicap.org-- greta: well, last night, the president told to his health- care plan, and tonight, former speaker of the house in newt gingrich tells you his health- care plan. he has a best seller now out in paperback. all sorts of bestsellers. anyway, you have a plan, sir? >> the first thing is to break the bill up into five or six parts and not try to write a comprehensive bill, because i do not think it is possible. they can understand a 1300 page bill, and eventually, you build

up so many things that you defeat the bill, but take some obvious things. the country very much wants to engage in reform. they say it would save money for doctors to not have to practice defensive medicine. that ought to be a bipartisan issue. the president referred to it last night. greta: did you buy that? >> he said he probably turn it over to the american trial lawyers to do the negotiations, but he at least raised it. senator bill bradley has written about it. it was a useful thing to do. second, he mentioned e-waste in medicare and medicaid. a senator just wrote a book that says "stop paying the crooks." -- he mentioned the waist. we believe there is lots of theft every year that would go towards financing the program. >> this is a 10-year number.

greta: so you have a more ambitious number than he has? >> it would require focusing on stopping the corpse, not the kinds of things he wants to do, like medicare advantage. third, i think you should be allowed to buy across state lines. i think no one should lose their insurance because of an existing condition. we think there are significant steps that you can take to reform health insurance. we would focus on finding the best practices. greta what our best practices? >> well, -- greta: what are best practices? >> well, there is one area that has a very significant significant -- has a very good program. it costs over $18,000 for the last two years of life, whereas

other hospitals cost over $65,000. greta: there is a hospital in my area, where they have cut costs and not cut quality. >> and then the final thing that we would do his we would invest very heavily in scientific research. we had the alzheimer's study group which i helped chair, and justice sandra day o'connor was on, and we believe that alzheimer's was about a $20 trillion budget item between now and 2050 as the baby boomers age. we believe that with the right research, you could eliminate that by 2020, 2025, and that would save the government trillions of dollars. greta: what about stem cell research? all of the scientific research to try to eliminate -- >> the fact is, now, we are increasingly using non embryonic stem cells.

they're doing diabetes research actually using cells from your skin that are grown back into stem cells so they can develop the right transplant for your body and so you do not reject it. if we took those what steps, you would immediately start changing things. litigation reform, taking out the crooks, developing insurance reform, developing best practices, and scientific research for great breakthroughs in places like alzheimer's, those five would dramatically change health in america without raising taxes, without creating a bureaucracy, and without having a government-run program. greta: and the senate is coming out with their bill supposedly, and the good news is you are coming back next week to tell us about that. thank you. see you next week. up next, he is out of prison and talking to you? before anyone else.

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greta: now, former congressman james traficant goes on the record in his first appearance after getting out of prison. earlier, he went on the record about life in prison, whether he is planning a political comeback, and so much more. nice to see you, sir. >> i am glad to be here, greta. i am glad to be anywhere. i come from seven years up in rochester. i want to say hello to all of the guys up there, a lot of good guys up there. they are sort of like family up there, a different experience. greta: so you make friends in prison? >> absolutely. nelson mandela said if you really want to know the truth

about a nation, you have to go through their prison, and believe me, he was right. brigham before we get to -- greta: before we get to prison, i have to ask you. >> get at me, greta. greta: are you going to run for congress again? >> i do not know. there are a lot of people that want me to run for congress. i was the number one target of a committee and of the justice department since 1983, being the only american ever defeated per se in a rico trial, and i have big enemies, but i have some bridges, and i want to go at them. i want to go at them, big time -- but i have some grudges. they came in here, and a fractured this district. they've broken up, certainly to make it tougher. i think that when they gave me a

light sentence, they thought i would never survive prison, and then they came to me and said that if i pled guilty, i might even get a pardon, and i told them to shove the party of their dear reader -- the pardon up their derrierre. greta: what are the odds you are going to run? >> the odds, and i saved all comments for your show, because, number one, i think you have a great show, and this is not to patronize you, because i think you asked questions, and i am going to embarrass you before it is over -- i think you ask tough questions. one of the concerns i have, that i come home to, is that we have the salaried workers that were completely cut out and lost

their pension benefits. it is going to be almost an impact of $250,000 to this general community, and when you look at it, dayton, ohio, is going to be hit very hard. they will be hit with about $1.50 billion of economic loss because of this decision, and i feel, and you know my record, if we could take care of people all over the world, and damage, take care of those salaried workers, and i expected to be done. i am on your show here, asking you to look at this, because we have here 9500 workers that are going to lose their pension benefits. they are going to have to pay for their pension benefits -- other benefits. there is an out of pocket expense with the multiplication and in shooting factor for the general metropolitan area of an impact of one-quarter of $1 billion of an economy that lost

steel mills years ago and has been lost behind. greta: ok. you said you had some bridges. what are they? >> number one, and my wife always tells me to tone down -- you said you have some grudges. it was my freedom avenger nation act -- my freedom of information at that proved to he was. the case was so sensitive that members of congress said, "jim, i love you, but, please, do not involve me." they would not accept it when i sent it to court. i finally sent it over to the israeli supreme court, and they called me over there, and i went with the family. i did a satellite interview brian gumbel, and i said they will lose $15 billion to $20 billion they get every year from the taxpayers, and bryant gumbel says, "what are you talking about?

they only get $3 billion?" and i said to look at all of the other trade compacts and military assistance. i am saying to you right now, israel gets $15 billion a year from the american taxpayer. that is $30,000 for every man, woman, and trial. the people in my district are losing their pension benefits, so i was targeted big time -- every man, woman, and child. they could not refuse it, and it came from the justice department, greta, and they said, "taking home," and i brought him home, and he has been bombarded ever since, and now, e is in germany, fighting for his life. -- he is in germany, fighting for his life. the documents clearly state who ivan the terrible was, and they

had to release him, and now, they cannot live with it. they could not live with jim traficant having beaten them in 1983. i was a walking symbol of defiance, and if nobody looks into this, the american people should be ashamed of themselves. when you allow one american to be violated, you threaten the freedoms of every american, and i cannot understand this, why no one in congress is raising their voice, and the reason is very simple. this may be you do not want to hear, and i certainly do not want to hurt you on your show. you are fair. you are one of the best. but i believe that israel has a powerful stranglehold on the american government. they control both members of the house, the house and the senate. they have us involved in wars of which we have low or no interest. our children are coming back in body bags come -- in which we have little or no interest.

they will put you in prison. greta: they released him back to the united states, correct? the second thing is, israel is our ally. >> yes, they are. and they should be our ally. they are our friend over in that troubled part of the world. greta: so explaining why u.s. are targeting or what you have this grudge -- why you are targeting the israelis or what you have this grudge -- what you have this crunch -- why you have this g rudge. -- grudge. >> wolfowitz' manipulated president bush iixd back into iraq. they try to get bush before they

moved into iran. we are conducting an expansionist policy of israel, and everybody is afraid to say it. they control much of the media. they control much of the congress of the country, and they control powerful, both bodies of the congress. they own the congress. greta: are you an anti-semite? >> no, i am not, and that is exactly what they are going to say, and i expect that. i think america comes first, and we have got a one-sided policy in the middle east, and we have alienated arabs, and they have no way to fight. they will export vineland's to america, and they have. they have no way to fight -- they will export violence to america. i think president obama sees this. i think he wants to do something. i think his hands are tied, and he is trying to dance between the raindrops, he tried to see how he can mitigate these problems. -- raindrops, trying to see how

he can mitigate these problems. america is in danger if we do not take back the government without foreign interference. greta: up next, how bad was prison for for a congressman prison for for a congressman trafafafafafaficafaf us music]

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they told congress that the u.s. on track to meet president obama's deadline to remove all combat forces from iraq by next august. they told congress of a good we are holding to this time table." the fatal congress "we are holding to this time table." a former cop will face the trial for murdering and shooting of an unarmed man. there was cellphone video from people who saw the incident. the defense had hoped for a charge of involuntary manslaughter. he was in a -- he said it was an accident. we now head back to "on the record." hemus harfenist in news, the fox news channel. greta: greta: greta-- you are wt

famous name in news, the fox news channel. greta: more with former congressman james traficant? . what would you do? >> i do not know, but i think the heart of president obama is in the right place. now, what has to be done? there has to be a blending of the sentiment, this were the wanting to do something right with a pragmatic approach that does not bankrupt america. greta: i guess in the seven years in prison, you never cried uncle? >> i never cried at all. why should i? i am an american just like everybody else. i went to prison, and a lot of americans go to prison. greta: what was it like? >> it was tough. the first place i went, there were a lot of illegals, and they knew i was putting the troops on

the border, and there is one man that said "my mother is your biggest fan. watch yourself." before long, i was in the hole. greta: for waht? -- what? >> i asked a question of some of that was so dumb that he would try to shoot himself and missed. i said, "people cannot hear you. speak up." anyway, they said it caused a riot, and they shot of me and put me in a the -- they shackled maie and put me in the hole. they were my captors. i did not give a damn about them. and the hole did not bother me.

it gave me time to think. greta: how long were you an allenwood? >> about 17 months or so. most go to some country club or camp. i did not. i was told at the other place that i was only so many points away from going to a federal penitentiary. greta: did you have cells, or did you have rooms? >> at raybrooke, you have a commode, and they lock you in at night, but in rochester, i live for about four years in a room with four people. two sets of bond pads. you had about 15 square feet for your own personal space. it is very crowded -- two sets of op-ed's -- bunk beds.

the prison system is vvery crowded. they should reinstate the parole board. one of the first bill as i submitted. had i got involved, it would be law. when i set my mind on something, i did it, but the first bill i submitted was the non-violent offender act. got believe me, greta, if you are non-violent, you should not go to prison -- got believe me. -- god believe me. at lunchtime at present, you have people who did not do -- at present, you have people who do not do a thing. -- at prison. i understood the dynamics. they are putting 20, 30 years on some of these young people, and it is out of hand, greta. greta: is it tough to do time?

>> anytime your freedom is impacted, it is tough. greta: when you say you have the public commode, that sounds pretty -- >> like to say, is not very flattering, but, quite frankly, it did not bother me at all, because i forfeited my future, and i did not care a damn what they did to me, and from this day forward, talking to you, i do not give a damn what anybody does to me. i am going to say what i think is right. i am going to do what i think is right. and if it offends people, then so be it. you see? because i guess i am still the same jack [beep] that i was, but i love america, and america is in danger of imploding, imploding. people laugh when i say that stevie wonder could see this coming. stevie wonder could see

america's troubles now. greta: let me get back to this prison. >> i am tired of you getting back and pushing me around. i have had enough. ok, go ahead. go ahead. those guys up in rochester would say, "do not let those guys push you around, jim." greta: you made friends? >> yes, a lot of good guys. greta: anybody contact you? >> they are not supposed to. greta: any politicians? >> are you kidding me? they are scared of me. no, nobody. they are scared to death. do you want to be targeted? you are being objective as hell. you should do what you're doing, because if you think, first of all, this bias -- first of all, i do not. i have a strong support for america, and if i think anything is wrong, i say it, but if you

are a politician, and you support me, you are in trouble. if you are a businessman and give money to me, you are audited. i was a target, and you know what i am most proud of? greta, what? >> that i was that target. i must have been doing something damn right -- greta: what? >> that i was that target. i got a lot done in congress, and i am very proud of that. greta: up next, she was his high-school sweetheart. the former congressman's wife joined him to go on the record. joined him to go on the record.

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greta: well, for seven years, congressman james traficant has

been in prison, and his wife has been waiting for him to come home. they went on the record. >> yes, it is. greta: fun to have him home? >> yes. >> i am surprised of the support. i have never had a newspaper write a good thing about me. greta: wow wow, that seven years went fast, but then i thought, that seven years did not go fast for them. -- wow. >> i would do countdowns, one christmas down, 6 to go. i did countdowns. then there was one christmas to go. then when i hit the lasting years, i did it that way in my mind, in drag, and then i got into summer. august was the slowest because i

knew he was coming home. greta: did you pick him up? you did not visit him once? >> no. never. >> i had no visitors. i did not want any visitors. i did not want my family see me in prison. not one visitor. the attorney, yes. greta: how often would you talk? >> as often as he would call. >> two or three times a week. greta: how long did you get to talk to improve >> not long. they were quick talks. greta: like 10 minutes? >> never. >> very expensive. i did not want to have her have

to pay for the calls. >> you do what you do. you do what you do to survive. greta: here is the deal. >> called the bureau of prisons and ask them if they allowed me to wear -- >> he had a ponytail. >> i cut myself. -- cut it myself. greta: coming up, a sex with ziploc? the average family wastes over $500 a year in food. don't throw away food, protect it in the freezer. ziploc freezer bags form a fresh shield, freezer burn stays out, freshness stays in. so your investment in dinner pays off every time.

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greta: 11:00 is almost here. flashe the studio lights. prime minister silvio berlusconi's wife left him, and now, a prostitute claims she spent the night with him. he was put in the spotlight and asked whether he would resign during the scandal. the prime minister was very clear, no way. in fact, he says he is the best prime minister italy has ever had. the prime minister does not deny sleeping with the woman, but he says he does not pay for sex. we report, you decide. we are closing down shop.