getting killed because the so da tax. people will continue to drink so d.a. pepsi is going to be up 30% by the time i am proven right in the spring. >> if you play, you're going to pay, a chant you will hear at today's tea party protests in washington, d.c., but is it really the ugly truth about the president's plan for healthcare reform? it promises to deliver a lot with hardly anyone paying a dime. hi, everybody. glad to have you. i'm neil cavuto. let's get right to it with our guests. lots of folks are signing on to it. are they going to regret it?

the numbers back. everyone is mad at representative wilson for shouting "lie" and they should be mad at him. he shouldn't have done, that but in fact, the speech was wildly misleading. there is nowhere near enough savings in medicare without cutting rationing costs for seniors to pay for anything much. there is going to be rationing of medical care under this plan. there is no doubt about that. there is going to be a devastating effect on insurance companies. that's obviously true. there is so much misleading stuff going on in that speech, it's kind of terrifying. i think we are moving towards socialized medicine. i think that's what president obama wants us to move to, and it scares me, frankly. neil: overnight tracking polls were similarly received for bill clinton when he gave almost the exact same speech in september of 1993, indicating more support for what the president wants to do. what do you make of that and does it improve the prospects for some type of reform closer to what the president wants than

what republicans want? >> it is a knee-jerk bounce at the polls. you talk about the tea party in d.c. today so i think americans by and large are still confused about this thing. it is just not going to hurt health insurance companies. i think the real problem is small businesses still between a rock and hard place, and individuals saying now that you have to buy health insurance like auto insurance, and a lot of people, even if that's constitutional, after all, you buy auto insurance because you're driving a multi-ton vehicle and can kill someone. the bottom line here is that people think about this, and as ben said, you cannot connect the dots and see how this will make financial relief. it will be so much more expensive than anyone is saying. neil: here is my crackpot prediction. i think we will get something. i don't know that it will be

piecemeal altogether what the president wants but i think it will piece together a lot of what he wants. then what? >> we end up all paying for it in the long run. you talked about the tracking polls. when people start digging into that speech and going through it line by line, you see that things don't add up. we might get some things but the cost is surely going to be greater for everyone than anybody estimates. this is going to add dimes and dollars and billions an billions of dollars to our deficit. there are a couple of things that were just jumped out at me. one, they are somehow going to pay for this through weeding out fraud in the medicare system, half a trillion dollars. the medicare system is only $400 billion a year. that is mathematically impossible. neil: and this we should stress with medicare on steroids, essentially. >> that's exactly what it will be. that's the road we're going down. you look at medicare. we have $37 trillion in unfunded

lie bill tizz, america. we're not paying for that today. there is more money going out of it today than is coming in. that is the road that we're going down. nobody has figured out how to pay it, to quote david walker, he said we're adding a wing to our house that is already mortgaged for more than it's worth. neil: adam, i was there at the president's speech and i came away from this thinking that was out to lunch on this or politically not astute on this. i think he is told a lot of party insiders, i'm going to kind of doublespeak on the public option. a lot of you will know a lot about this, but the camel's nose will be under the proverbial tent, and like medicare when it started, $65 million bucks a year t can only grow and did go and so will this. what do you think? >> i think your political instincts are right, neil. i don't think it is a crackpot suggestion that we're going to get some sort of reform bill

here, because, remember, all the pez really needs to do is to get enough -- is to get enough of the democrats who aren't with him right now to support him, to get most of them, and some republicans, very, very few politically to make it happen. we're overlooking some things here. ben said this is an unqualified negative thing for the insurance companies. well, that's not the message that they're saying in response to the president's speech. they're looking, for example, at the new customers that this legislation will mandate for them. that's new revenue for them. that's new money into the insurance system, into the healthcare system. there are pluses and minuses. neil: you might be right, but will it kill the president to quit sill phiing them? i talked to the head of cigna insurance in washington and he said i'm perfectly willing to go along with portability, preexisting conditions, i'm trying to work with him but every time i turn on the t.v. the president is ripping me into

a new one. if you want to work with folks and get a big stink up about a congressman who has the temerity to call you a liar, like ben stein says, that is a little out of decorum there, but you can't come back and negotiate with the same people you are all but calling thieves. what is good for the goose better be good for the gander, right? >> well, they can take it, neil, and they're in a bad position here. i mean, politically the president needs a villain. they are the villain. neil: no, they're not. 80 to 90% of americans are not mad at insurance companies, and believe me, i have dealt with problems with insurance. 80 to 90% of americans are looking around and saying we're ok with our coverage, then they can't all be awful, right? go ahead ben stein. >> something extremely odd is going on here. the insurance companies were foolish enough to and go out and sign up for this plan. they didn't understand it.

they didn't understand that the president is going to double-cross them. the president is going to put in a a new plan with a public option that will provide all the services that insurance companies provide but it will not need to make a profit and therefore will be able to charge lower rates an kill the insurance companies. that's big problem. i'm more concerned about the whooping lie about medicare. he cannot cut any where near that much out of medicare without severe rationing of healthcare for seniorss. that is an outrage to put in this plan to help uninsured people, and it is going to cover uninsured illegal aliens by cutting it out of the hides of the senior citizens who have been paying in for medicare. there is not one word in this bill that says we're not going to cover illegal aliens o.t. take that out of the hides of seniors is not right. >> i want to take it a step further. if we add 47 million more people to this, there is going to be more fraud, waste and abuse. we're not going to cut $400 billion. we're going to add $400 bill

>> it is the taxpayers who have to subsidize the public option which is going to run as non-profit corporation. the money will come from taxpayers, a lot of taxpayers, not just the top one or 5%. >> for everybody that has health insurance, the central concern is rising costs rising faster than the growth in our economy. there is not one thing that the president said that will curb costs for all, not one. neil: maybe joe wilson should have said "you're nefarious with the facts!" something we do every day is pick healthcare by steve forbes. on this day we stand united, but how far or how far apart have we come? (announcer) time brings new wisdom

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>> hi, everyone. from america's news headquarters i'm jamie colby. president obama is heading to indianapolis for a rally on healthcare reform. the rally is part of the president's full court press on healthcare. mr. obama is saying a new treasury report finds around half of all americans under 65 lose their health coverage at some point over the next ten years, and we want to show you live pictures of a rally underway in the nation's capital. this is live.

thousands gathering at the capital to protest big government and high taxes. it came from all over the country, including members of the tea party express. we had will be covering the march on washington throughout the day. send you back to forbes on fox. i'm jamie colby. keep it here on fox and check out fox.com for the latest headlines. neil: eight years ago america came under attack like never before. eight years ago today america came together like never before. where are we now? what a difference, charles, huh? >> it is really sad. we're coming apart at the seams really right now. there is a battle going on for the heart and soul of america. part of it is there is a battle against capitalism. there is a battle against religion. there is a battle against that rough individualism that used to be really characteristic of america, and people are fighting back. that's why you have the tea parties.

quite frankly, it is almost like a stealth civil war. it's that bad right now. >> and adam is leading the charge. you are destroying everything we hold here. how do you feel about it now? >> i don't think it is quite as bad as charles says. i will point out that on foreign policy, for example, we're not all that divided right now. p president obama is continuing the strategies that president bush put in place in iraq and afghanistan. on domestic policy, we're terribly apart, and a lot of us, a lot of us in this country are behaving very badly. the reason that the congressmen don't call the president a liar is that he is our head of state. he is not just a mere head of government like the brittish prime minister is, and he's a guest in their house. that's why we don't behave that way. >> you said a lot of people. that is one individual. >> it is representative of a lot of bad behavior in this country. >> people are upset about the

direction of a major policy initiative in washington. that's bad behavior? because they're using their right to free speech and they're speaking out? i want to know who the "a lot of people" are. >> ben stein, i know you have covered many an economic summit in your life, as have i, and every time i notice about the president when he arrives, you see the leader of england come in on a brittish air yet and france comes in and europe usually in a van or something, and our president, you know, the huge fleet of planes and the hundreds of bodyguards. i'm not saying that he doesn't need a lot of that stuff, but we have a habit in this country like if anyone gets close to the president or it is somehow sinister and evil, and i don't know, republican or democrat, last time i checked, i thought we were his boss, not the other way around? >> it is very true.

we have an imperial presidency right now and mr. obama likes to go around speaking and doesn't like anyone to question him. it is an interesting thing. everyone is so upset about joe wilson and they should be. i can remember -- i'm the oldest person on the panel, and i can remember vividly when a certain senator who was running, senator mcgovern was running against nixon and nixon was present, mcgovern said nixon was worse than hitler. i don't think the media said boo about it. that is a heck of a lot worse than saying "you lie." there is terrible incivility. george bush 43 before he came before congress, the democrats would snicker at him and boo at him. there is plenty of incivility to go around. the real problem is that 8 years ago we were united against the terrorists and now we're saying oh, let's defend the terrorists and make sure they get legal rights and get treated with kid gloves and treat them fair and

square. let's apologize to all these countries around the world that treat us like dog dirt. come on, this is america! we behave like americans willing to defend ourselves n war, there is a lot of brutality. we're in a war. we're in a serious war. we used to all be united in world war ii. somehow we got a lot of people lost on the war that we need to do for this country. neil: every anniversary of 9/11, including this year, i note that the more time that passes, the more we forget. the australian prime minister john howard told me, the thing that worries me most, neil, with each passing year we're more focused on the crisis from a year before, like in this case, the financial crisis a year ago,

and not eight years ago. our memories are short-lived and he used the example of the '93 attack on the world trade center that terrorists quietly wait, patiently so, eight years. what do you make of it that our psyche is such -- maybe it is something about the american spirit to move on, it's that we move on all right, but forget everything. >> complacency is a big problem in america. it is illustrated best in the stock market. if you look where eastman kodak, motorola, budweiser, general motors, great iconic american companies that dominated the planet, where they are right now, barely making it or been taken over by others but also keep in mind what khrushchev said years ago that communism would defeat america without firing a shot. a lot of people around the world waitd for us to self-destruct. right now, the worst thing that terrorists could do is attack america probably. neil: when we come back, september 2001, the brutal

terrorist attack changing our lives forever, and the one lesson the white house needs to learn. who need

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neil: you know, september 2001, it was an unforeseen terrorist attack. in september 2008, an unforeseen financial attack. both sent our economy and market reeling. the point is neither was expected. so few things in history are. when the government makes a ten-year budget for anything, isn't that just pure fantasy?

>> fantasy land, absolutely. any projection on, say, the cost of healthcare overhaul is ridiculous. no one knows what it is going to ultimately cost. we know it is not going to be deficit neutral, if you will. we talk about medicare. medicare originally early on, the estimates that it was going to cost $9 billion in 1 1990, it was ten times that and now it is ready to bankrupt this country. that's what we're facing. it is not just the cost. the people in washington, our lawmakers they have no idea of what a healthcare overhaul will do to the entire healthcare system, to the entire economy. they will be all sorts of knock-off effects, dominoes, that they can't anticipate and nobody will admit that. >> i was talking about the congressmen on both sides about the growth of healthcare, and democrat democrats said keep in mind that medicare's growth also

made more efficient medical care for more people 65 and older, in particular, and that's left out of equation when you talk about a program that's grown, that this would have been more spread out among a lot of entities and a lot more money would have been spent and we're focusing on just this, and we've got the focus wrong. >> a lot of people say why are you worried about the money part of it? you can't avoid t. neil: they're saying a lot more money would have been wasted and spent in the net government. >> i understand, but we had a projection and we're wildly off the projection, and now the unfunded liabilities are through the roof. for any administration, believe me, any administration, republican or democrat, to go out ten years from now is terrible. just in the regular nuances of the economy means you aring about disengine wis and you are not being realistic.

neil: we are either too extremely negative or too extremely positive. we were very negative not too long ago about the piling up of debt, and now just as we were optimistic coming in the late clinton years that the surpluses would last forever. is the truth somewhere in between? what do you think? >> sure. i don't think there is any reason to only pick on government here. i mean, nobody is good at making a ten-year prediction, but the alternative is what? i mean, we have to plan for the future. businesses have to do it. governments have to do it. we're going to get it wrong. we still need to try. neil: ben? >> well, the thing that interests me about this is ten-year projections about global warming. they're my most favorite predictions. look, we can't tell the weather two days in advance. we can barely tell the weather one day in advance and somehow these scientists are going to tell us within one degree or a tenth of a degree what the temperature of the earth is going to be in ten years, 20 years or 30 years, and in

response to that ridiculous idea that they can predict the future, we're going to turn the energy oasis in this country upside-down. that is so crazy it is unbelievable. it would be comical if it weren't going to have real effects on so many real people. >> stay tuned for a ten-year look at weather. stocks in full rally mode. our guests have the recovery pick. cheer clear carol, when you replaced casual friday with nordic tuesday,

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neil: stocks rocketing up over a 0%, hitting a 12-year low just six months ago. >> sales force.com, i think they will be acquired by oracle. they do customer relationship software, a great company, niche company and they will be acquired but still, i think it will go significantly higher. crm. neil: adam what do you think of that? >> it is so gosh darn expensive, which will inhibit a takeover, i think, charles. neil: so what are you doing now? >> new month mining -- newmont mining. you get gold plus an outstanding operator with this. hasn't this been priced into the inflation spike or fear? >> never enough.

neil: ben, what do you think? >> i love the fact that the most experienced nobel prize winning economists don't think they can predict inflation. no real person can he predict inflation but somehow adam can. i love you, adam. i would like you to do my cardiac care. i don't like your pick because i think it is a bet on a commodity and i think a commodity pick is too risky for the average investor and the average investor should stick with index funds and i have recommended the s&p index fund. newmont mine something too risky. spy is a cautious pick. i like cautious picks. why bet on a possibility? why not bet on the whole market,